Hi Joy, What great information! No wonder I couldn't find a record of a RC church in Chester in the 1740s. The article is very interesting. Many of the Dowdalls in Ireland had their own family chaplain, including Henry's family while he was growing up. I don't know when Henry Dowdall moved to Chester. His wife Lady Alice (nee Nugent) died at Athcarne, County Meath in 1735. There has never been any mention of children. The Dowdalls were originally a Norman family so perhaps he went to the Fitzherbert's house. From the obituary I assume it had been in Chester for some time. "On the 20th Instant died at Chester, Henry Dowdall, Esq; in the 95th Year of his Age. He was possessed of a plentiful Fortune in Ireland, and had married a Daughter to the Earl of Fingall. He was Recorder of Drogheda when King James II, was in that City, whom he then addressed in a Speech, much admired for its Elegancy and Liveliness of Expression. He was a perfect Master of the Classics, and thoroughly versed in all polite Learning. As he was happy in a remarkable Memory, he retaine'd what he had read almost to the last. His Vivacity, Humanity and Affability, rendered him loved and respected by all his Acquaintances. He lived and died a Roman Catholic, and made an equitable Disposition of his Effects." Henry Dowdall wrote his family tree in 1687. I am trying to get a copy of it. It would be interesting to find what led him to Chester in the 1740s. Thank you for all your helpful information. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: Joy Langdon To: conaught2 ; CHESHIRE@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 11:35 AM Subject: Re: [CHS] Henry Dowdall's death in 1748 in Chester According to the British History Online website "Until the 1750s there was no permanently resident priest in Chester, masses being said either by a gentleman's chaplain, typically from Hooton Hall in Wirral or the Fitzherberts' house" http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=57320 Regards, Joy From: conaught2 <conaught2@charter.net> To: CHESHIRE@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, 7 November 2013, 19:03 Subject: [CHS] Henry Dowdall's death in 1748 in Chester Hi Joy, Thank you for your helpful suggestions. I will look at Find My Past transcripts and check spelling variations which there are many. I am trying to locate the names of the RC churches in Chester in 1748. Do you know if St. Werburgh was built on the site of an older church on Queen Street? Hopefully Henry's burial record still survives. Thank you again for your prompt response. Margaret

Dear Lyn, Thank you for the information from the Treasury Calendar, British History Online. Henry Dowdall's father Nicholas died in the 1660s and his mother Katherine Plunkett remarried Lawrence Taafe. Dr. Taafe must be a relative of his step-father. The record of the mortgage is very interesting. I am not familiar with a 2a, could you please let me know what this is in reference to? You have provided some interesting information. Thank you, Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mrs L. McCulloch" <lyn.mcculloch@btinternet.com> To: "conaught2" <conaught2@charter.net> Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 4:03 AM Subject: Re: [CHS] Henry Dowdall's death in 1748 in Chester > Dear Margaret, > I failed to spot it but there is a ref to Henry Dowdall in the Treasury > Calendar which is online at British History Online. > 'forfeited lands of Henry Dowdall mortgaged to Dr Taafe for 400 l > (pounds)' dated March 1697 > Regards, > Lyn > > > A > t 01:10 07/11/2013, you wrote: >>I am trying to locate records for Henry Dowdall in Chester. I have a >>newspaper obituary of his death in 1748. Henry Dowdall was the Recorder >>of Drogheda, County Louth, Ireland in 1689. I just learned that Civil >>Registration started in 1837. >> >>Is anyone on the list familiar with some type of records I could search >>for Chester in the mid 1700s? I don't have an address in Chester. Any >>ideas would be greatly appreciated. >> >>Thank you, >>Margaret K. >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >>----- >>No virus found in this message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3629/6810 - Release Date: 11/05/13 > > >

Hi Joy, Thank you for your helpful suggestions. I will look at Find My Past transcripts and check spelling variations which there are many. I am trying to locate the names of the RC churches in Chester in 1748. Do you know if St. Werburgh was built on the site of an older church on Queen Street? Hopefully Henry's burial record still survives. Thank you again for your prompt response. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: Joy Langdon To: conaught2 Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 1:52 AM Subject: Re: [CHS] Henry Dowdall's death in 1748 in Chester Hello Margaret, Before 1837 deaths were recorded in parish burial records. However, if Henry was Roman Catholic he might not appear in the Church of England parish records (see link): http://archives.cheshire.gov.uk/what_we_hold/roman_catholics.aspx Find My Past have transcripts of the Cheshire Parish Registers and Henry's death does not appear but I did not try variations of spelling. Just as with the Irish records, not all records survive from that period of course and those that do survive aren't always legible. Joy

I am trying to locate records for Henry Dowdall in Chester. I have a newspaper obituary of his death in 1748. Henry Dowdall was the Recorder of Drogheda, County Louth, Ireland in 1689. I just learned that Civil Registration started in 1837. Is anyone on the list familiar with some type of records I could search for Chester in the mid 1700s? I don't have an address in Chester. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Margaret K.

Years ago before all the censuses were online I was looking up an ancestor on fiche in the local library . When I found him he was listed on the fiche as a "Public Nuisance" ... obviously one of my family!. Noticing a + sign at the end of the line I asked the librarian what it meant and she explained that the + sign meant that there was more information about his occupation on the original because the text fields on the fiche were limited in size. So I looked at the microfilm version and, sure enough, it said "Public Nuisance and Sanitation Worker". Eric Millward ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3615/6810 - Release Date: 11/05/13

Hi Ruth, Thanks for your email. I will bear that in mind for the future but first I think I will work on the descendants. Sometimes something pops up, perhaps a reference in another will I haven’t linked in yet etc. I may know more when I come back to it. I haven’t worked on Rebecca yet, I’ve not got much time just at present so that info is useful. Thanks again, Christine

Hi Christine Adrian is right when he says that 'The only thing that matters for you is what's in the original parish registers.' You can see these on FMP and work through them page by page. Unfortunately, many of the pages you need to trawl through are damaged and therefore illegible as they stand. So, practically speaking, there is only one way to go. The registers are kept in the Cheshire Archives and Record Office in Chester and *can* be read by the use of UV light. I don't know what the policy is at Chester for the public use of this facility - some record offices allow it whilst others don't. A quick telephone call or email would establish that. If you are unable to visit yourself I have found the Chester archivists very helpful in the past and I'm sure they would respond to a simple request - charges are made only when a longer time is required to search. If you explain what it is you're looking for (eg the baptism of Joshua which will give the name of his father and that it's likely to be between (say) 1680 and 1700), identify the pages you need checked and ask whether there would be a charge for that. The archivists are the people holding the documents, and they have the skills and the equipment necessary to read them. That's what the record offices and staff are there for. Our taxes pay for them. So I would encourage people to use them. Above all, don't fret. You may be coming to the end of any further research on this line. It happens to us all. BTW, I will just mention - although you may have this info already - that a Rebeckah HAMMOND was baptised in Gawsworth on 13 Mar 1697/8, father Robert. Rebeckah wife of Joshua Whittaker was buried 6 Dec 1746. Joshua Whittaker was buried 2 Nov 1750. His will dated 11 May 1750 names 2 sons, John and Richard and a son-in-law John WEST, cooper, who had married Mary Wittaker 20 Jan 1724/5. He makes no mention of a wife. Joshua is described as a husbandman and he left under £20. This bears out Adrian's mention of the interchangeability of occupational terms in his mailing. The term 'farmer' also began to be used more frequently around this time (mid 18thC). All these details stack up and may be the truth of the matter, but equally may not. I can't see evidence for another Joshua of Gawsworth but until the whole of the register for those years is read you can't be certain. Hope this helps. Ruth

Why don't you contact Tameside Archive centre, there is an enquiry link on this page http://www.tameside.gov.uk/archives You'll find them very helpful, there may be other photo's as not all the image archive is on line yet. Vanessa    All records are subject to error. Let they without typo caste tea thirst scone! View my photostream at http://www.flickr.com/photos/snapshistory/ ________________________________ From: Jo Stocker <jo.stocker@pharm.ox.ac.uk> To: 'Vanessa Dixon' <vanessal.dixon@btinternet.com> Cc: Rootsweb <CHESHIRE@rootsweb.com>; 'Janice Gregory' <janandal@hotmail.com> Sent: Friday, 1 November 2013, 14:03 Subject: RE: [CHS] Harrison Fold, Newton, Hyde, Cheshire Dear Vanessa,   Many thanks for your email. I managed to locate the photo of Harrison Fold J   Do you know if there are any more? Or any old maps in the Archive?   With regards Jo   From:Vanessa Dixon [mailto:vanessal.dixon@btinternet.com] Sent: 31 October 2013 10:09 AM To: Jo Stocker Cc: Rootsweb Subject: Re: [CHS] Harrison Fold, Newton, Hyde, Cheshire   There is one photo of Harrison Fold on the Tameside online image archive, here is the link to their page   http://www.tameside.gov.uk/archives/imagearchive   Just follow the links and put Harrison Fold in the search engine   Vanessa      All records are subject to error. Let they without typo caste tea thirst scone! View my photostream at http://www.flickr.com/photos/snapshistory/   ________________________________ From:Jo Stocker <jo.stocker@pharm.ox.ac.uk> To: "'morrisind@rogers.com'" <morrisind@rogers.com>; "'keith.hayes43@ntlworld.com'" <keith.hayes43@ntlworld.com> Cc: "'CHESHIRE@rootsweb.com'" <CHESHIRE@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, 30 October 2013, 12:31 Subject: [CHS] Harrison Fold, Newton, Hyde, Cheshire Dear All, I was wondering if you can help me. I am looking into my genealogy and my father grow up around Harrison Fold. I have google this and found an email you had both send to CHESHIRE@rootsweb.com<mailto:CHESHIRE@rootsweb.com>. Do you happen to know anything on Harrison Fold? I'm trying to get more information on it and possibly old photos. Can you shed any more light on Harrison Fold? With regards Mrs Jo Stocker ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Another couple of gems acquired on E Bay - two invoices dated 1825 and 1837, one for Rev R E Warburton and the other for Marston Rail Road. They came from Clydebank. It just shows how far from home these things can get. Regards, Lyn

Hi Adrian, Many thanks for your reply. I had assumed that the William HAMMOND named in the bond was the father of Rebecca and although that is likely I need to prove that. But I have not researched Rebecca yet. I had another reply off list suggesting this could be Joshua's second marriage and he had previously had a son Joshua who was the one who died. That would make a lot of sense and is something I need to look at. I think the Joshua bap. 1709 probably was the one who died 1719 but I suspected that this was not conclusive and you have confirmed that. I am attempting to reconstruct the WHITTAKER families in Gawsworth, looking further afield if necessary but Gawsworth has a lot of WHITTAKERs and they keep on recycling the same names for their children. They weren't trying to make it easy for me! Thanks again. Although it doesn't get me much further at present you have confirmed a lot of my thoughts which does help. Christine -----Original Message----- From: Adrian Bruce Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 12:02 PM To: 'Christine Benson' Cc: 'CHESHIRE mailing list' Subject: RE: [CHS] Joshua WHITTAKERS of Gawsworth <<snipped>> First question - If it is not signed by Joshua's father does (should) that mean Joshua is over 21? <<snipped>> The signatures (on the marriage bond) are simply signatures of two bondsmen, who are prepared to be "fined" a huge amount of money if Joshua and Rebecca were not legally allowed to be married for some reason. USUALLY in the bonds I've seen, it tends to be the groom and a friend or relative of one of the parties - I don't think I've seen someone who I could link to the bride yet. On one bond, not even the groom signs. So I wouldn't read any significance into the appearance of the bride's father alongside the groom. But what I don't know is whether there is any over-arching requirement on a bondsman to be over 21. A good question.... "yeoman" is such a moveable feast that again, I don't read any meaning to it, other than someone who wanted to display some sort of status. I'd *suspect* he was over 21 if he's signing a bond and being called a yeoman. But suspicion is all it is. "FamilySearch has a record saying the Joshua WHITTAKER baptized 3rd Apr 1709 died 2nd Jul 1719 ... So have FamilySearch got that right?" When I looked at the entry in question, it has a film number 0924607 IT 1. Discarding the IT 1 from the film number, in the LDS Catalogue, there are 4 things on that film 0924607 of which only 1 relates to Gawsworth. This is "The registers of the parish church of Gawsworth in the county of Chester, 1557-1837" by Robert Dickinson, London, Ancient Monuments Society, 1955. In other words, the evidence for the baptism and burial belonging to the same person does NOT exist - it's just someone's conclusion written out in a book. They could be wrong. The only thing that matters for you is what's in the original parish registers. Fundamentally, you have to look through the registers and try and reconstruct the Joshua Whittakers of Gawsworth AND the surrounding parishes. Possibly all Whittakers in that area and era as it's the only way to be comfortable you see the full story - e.g. a woman having children 40y after her marriage is unlikely, suggesting there's 2 people of the same name as the father. Which might be important. Sorry there are no easy answers....... Adrian B

Dear Vanessa, Many thanks for your email. I managed to locate the photo of Harrison Fold :) Do you know if there are any more? Or any old maps in the Archive? With regards Jo From: Vanessa Dixon [mailto:vanessal.dixon@btinternet.com] Sent: 31 October 2013 10:09 AM To: Jo Stocker Cc: Rootsweb Subject: Re: [CHS] Harrison Fold, Newton, Hyde, Cheshire There is one photo of Harrison Fold on the Tameside online image archive, here is the link to their page http://www.tameside.gov.uk/archives/imagearchive Just follow the links and put Harrison Fold in the search engine Vanessa All records are subject to error. Let they without typo caste tea thirst scone! View my photostream at http://www.flickr.com/photos/snapshistory/ ________________________________ From: Jo Stocker <jo.stocker@pharm.ox.ac.uk<mailto:jo.stocker@pharm.ox.ac.uk>> To: "'morrisind@rogers.com'" <morrisind@rogers.com<mailto:morrisind@rogers.com>>; "'keith.hayes43@ntlworld.com'" <keith.hayes43@ntlworld.com<mailto:keith.hayes43@ntlworld.com>> Cc: "'CHESHIRE@rootsweb.com'" <CHESHIRE@rootsweb.com<mailto:CHESHIRE@rootsweb.com>> Sent: Wednesday, 30 October 2013, 12:31 Subject: [CHS] Harrison Fold, Newton, Hyde, Cheshire Dear All, I was wondering if you can help me. I am looking into my genealogy and my father grow up around Harrison Fold. I have google this and found an email you had both send to CHESHIRE@rootsweb.com<mailto:CHESHIRE@rootsweb.com><mailto:CHESHIRE@rootsweb.com<mailto:CHESHIRE@rootsweb.com>>. Do you happen to know anything on Harrison Fold? I'm trying to get more information on it and possibly old photos. Can you shed any more light on Harrison Fold? With regards Mrs Jo Stocker ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Seeing the correspondence on the WHITAKER family I am prompted to ask whether anyone has come across Robert WHITAKER born c 1744 according to his burial record Robert seems to have spent all his married life to Sarah in Disley. However I cannot find a baptism record for him; nor a marriage; nor a baptism for his son Samuel and daughter Mary, who I know existed as I have a copy of Robert`s will. I have just re-checked FMP and Family Search and there are possibles in Lancashire but they seem to be linked to a different family. According to his will and Disley Parish register (which I have transcribed) Robert had nine children altogether. The other seven were baptised in Disley. best wishes Marjorie Ward Derbyshire, UK Sources for Disley; Lyme Handley; Taxal & Whaley www.disley.net Sources for Hollingworths www.hollingworths.net Sources for NWDby incl Chapel; Charlesworth; Chinley; Fernilee; Glossop; Hayfield; Hope Valley; Mellor & New Mills http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~dusk John Ward Paintings: www.johnward-art.com

<<snipped>> First question - If it is not signed by Joshua's father does (should) that mean Joshua is over 21? <<snipped>> The signatures (on the marriage bond) are simply signatures of two bondsmen, who are prepared to be "fined" a huge amount of money if Joshua and Rebecca were not legally allowed to be married for some reason. USUALLY in the bonds I've seen, it tends to be the groom and a friend or relative of one of the parties - I don't think I've seen someone who I could link to the bride yet. On one bond, not even the groom signs. So I wouldn't read any significance into the appearance of the bride's father alongside the groom. But what I don't know is whether there is any over-arching requirement on a bondsman to be over 21. A good question.... "yeoman" is such a moveable feast that again, I don't read any meaning to it, other than someone who wanted to display some sort of status. I'd *suspect* he was over 21 if he's signing a bond and being called a yeoman. But suspicion is all it is. "FamilySearch has a record saying the Joshua WHITTAKER baptized 3rd Apr 1709 died 2nd Jul 1719 ... So have FamilySearch got that right?" When I looked at the entry in question, it has a film number 0924607 IT 1. Discarding the IT 1 from the film number, in the LDS Catalogue, there are 4 things on that film 0924607 of which only 1 relates to Gawsworth. This is "The registers of the parish church of Gawsworth in the county of Chester, 1557-1837" by Robert Dickinson, London, Ancient Monuments Society, 1955. In other words, the evidence for the baptism and burial belonging to the same person does NOT exist - it's just someone's conclusion written out in a book. They could be wrong. The only thing that matters for you is what's in the original parish registers. Fundamentally, you have to look through the registers and try and reconstruct the Joshua Whittakers of Gawsworth AND the surrounding parishes. Possibly all Whittakers in that area and era as it's the only way to be comfortable you see the full story - e.g. a woman having children 40y after her marriage is unlikely, suggesting there's 2 people of the same name as the father. Which might be important. Sorry there are no easy answers....... Adrian B

Hi All, Joshua WHITTAKERS of Gawsworth married Rebecca HAMMOND on 14th Nov 1726 at Sutton, Macclesfield. The spelling varies between records and so does the exact date but the marriage is a fact I am working from. There is a record on FMP stating their intention to marry. It is signed by Rebecca's father but not as far as I can see by Joshua's father. I cannot be certain of this as Joshua's father may have been another Joshua and I find the record difficult to read. Joshua is a yeoman. First question - If it is not signed by Joshua's father does (should) that mean Joshua is over 21? The fact that he is a yeoman suggests that to me - does it to others? There is a baptism for a Joshua, son of Joshua at Gawsworth on 3rd Apr 1709. If that is my Joshua and it was an infant baptism it would make him under 21 at marriage. A number of family trees on Ancestry have this as the baptism. (But some have a birth of 1675 but there seem to be inconsistencies and I believe that is another Joshua.) But FamilySearch has a record saying the Joshua WHITTAKER baptized 3rd Apr 1709 died 2nd Jul 1719 and there is a record on FMP confirming the burial (father Joshua) but not giving an age or otherwise relating it to the baptism. Other questions - So have FamilySearch got that right? If they have then that is not my Joshua. How can I check that? And in that case where and when was my Joshua baptized? There is no record of his age at his death/burial in 1750. Joshua lived and raised a family in Gawsworth but it is possible he was not born there. But there are a lot of WHITTAKERs in Gawsworth which suggests to me that he probably was born there. Any help, suggestions, ideas greatly appreciated. Christine

Hi, I have a new website and have completed the EVANS family page from Chester/Birkenhead areas (with a few mentions of Wales – less than I’d like!) , if anyone is interested! Associated names include JONES and HOLMES. http://julietsgenealogy.org/husbands-family/evans/ Juliet

There is one photo of Harrison Fold on the Tameside online image archive, here is the link to their page http://www.tameside.gov.uk/archives/imagearchive Just follow the links and put Harrison Fold in the search engine Vanessa      All records are subject to error. Let they without typo caste tea thirst scone! View my photostream at http://www.flickr.com/photos/snapshistory/ ________________________________ From: Jo Stocker <jo.stocker@pharm.ox.ac.uk> To: "'morrisind@rogers.com'" <morrisind@rogers.com>; "'keith.hayes43@ntlworld.com'" <keith.hayes43@ntlworld.com> Cc: "'CHESHIRE@rootsweb.com'" <CHESHIRE@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, 30 October 2013, 12:31 Subject: [CHS] Harrison Fold, Newton, Hyde, Cheshire Dear All, I was wondering if you can help me. I am looking into my genealogy and my father grow up around Harrison Fold. I have google this and found an email you had both send to CHESHIRE@rootsweb.com<mailto:CHESHIRE@rootsweb.com>. Do you happen to know anything on Harrison Fold? I'm trying to get more information on it and possibly old photos. Can you shed any more light on Harrison Fold? With regards Mrs Jo Stocker ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHESHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello, It had been suggested to me that I broaden my "interests" outside of Cork, Ireland and this is what I am attempting to do. I am researching a: Twiss JONES, architect, in Cork, Ireland, 1710, who had built The Exchange, plus, the Goal (Jail) in the heart of the City both, at approximately, 1705. I am giving you a broad date as to his birth date--1680-'90, BURTON, Cheshire, England. I am starting out here and may be incorrect as to his p/b., and would appreciate any help/suggestions as to anything on this Twiss JONES. Thank you so much. Shannah TWISS overthepond06@gmail.com Canada

Hello Jo, I came across the following while doing a Google search. Mike Morris Toronto canada The History of Hyde isn't much help, but it says this (Muslin Street is now, of course, Talbot Road): "Proceeding up Muslin Street, on the left-hand side is Harbour Farm. A little higher up Muslin Street, on the right-hand side of the road, is Hicken Farm. Higher still on the left-hand side, a by-road near St Mary's school, leads to Bradley Green Farm. At the top of Muslin Street, in the fields to the left, behind Harrison Fold, is Newton House Farm." I presume Harbour Farm is the one on the Tithe Map marked plot no. 367. >________________________________ > From: Jo Stocker <jo.stocker@pharm.ox.ac.uk> >To: "'morrisind@rogers.com'" <morrisind@rogers.com>; "'keith.hayes43@ntlworld.com'" <keith.hayes43@ntlworld.com> >Cc: "'CHESHIRE@rootsweb.com'" <CHESHIRE@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 8:31:27 AM >Subject: Harrison Fold, Newton, Hyde, Cheshire > > > > >Dear All, >  >I was wondering if you can help me. >  >I am looking into my genealogy and my father grow up around Harrison Fold. I have google this and found an email you had both send to CHESHIRE@rootsweb.com. >  >Do you happen to know anything on Harrison Fold? I’m trying to get more information on it and possibly old photos. >  >Can you shed any more light on Harrison Fold? >  >With regards >  >Mrs Jo Stocker >  > >

Dear All, I was wondering if you can help me. I am looking into my genealogy and my father grow up around Harrison Fold. I have google this and found an email you had both send to CHESHIRE@rootsweb.com<mailto:CHESHIRE@rootsweb.com>. Do you happen to know anything on Harrison Fold? I'm trying to get more information on it and possibly old photos. Can you shed any more light on Harrison Fold? With regards Mrs Jo Stocker

Have just obtained details of the auction in 1892 . It was owned by the Middlewich Salt and Alkali Co Ltd and occupied and presumably farmed , by Ambrose Collier. The land with it was about 24 acres . Some brine pumping had been carried out. Regards, Lyn Details added to Cheshire Farm Index