what is mixed up? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earleene" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] heritage > you have several families mixed up you do not have my family, > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Susan Reynolds" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 1:51 AM > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] heritage > > >> Hello, Earleene! >> >> This is one of those hard ones because there is an awful lot of bad >> information out there about Sarah's alleged lineage. At most she >> would have been 1/32, if I have counted right, maybe 1/16th but no >> more than that. I am assuming you have probably seen some of the >> family trees on the web that have her several times great grandmother >> as Princess Cornblossom Doublehead or Cornblossom Chuqualatague >> Doublehead Shawnee (married to Daniel Belvins)? This last name is the >> way Don Greene shows lineage in his books on the Shawnee - all of >> which are totally unsupported and unsourced - and not a name at all. >> Chuqualatague was simply another name that was attributed to >> Doublehead. Some of the trees have Sarah's mother or grandmother >> married to Jacob "Big Jake" Troxell after the death of their fist >> husband, others have Cornblossom married to Jake Troxell after >> Daniel's death. All of them have a huge mess when it comes to >> children in those earlier generations, largely because there is >> absolutley ZERO documentation on them and multiple families are mixed >> together. >> >> There are a few things in those trees that tip them off as incorrect. >> The first is PRINCESS. There were no Native American princesses. >> That was the Englishman's designation for the daughter of a chief, but >> the daughters were not royalty, nor were the sons and they had no >> special place of precedence because of their father's position. >> >> The second is Shawnee. There is a lovely tale on the internet that >> has John Pasmere Carpenter married to a Shawnee lass named Pride in >> Jamestown, Virginia Colony in about 1627 or 1628. They supposedly had >> a son named A-ma-do-ya who became chief at Chota later in the mid >> 1600s, founding the Cherokee Moytoy line. It's a lovely story, but it >> is just that. Virginia records disprove it. John Pasmere Carpenter >> did not exist. John Pasmore, a carpenter of James City, later >> Jamestown, did exist and it is an INDEX entry from the Virginia >> Library digital land records that gives rise to the other name. The >> index entry is in error as the land lease clearly shows. If you would >> like the documentation, I will be happy to send it to you. Still it >> IS a pretty story, it's just fiction, not fact. >> >> Third, Doublehead was well known and his line is well documented. >> Maybe one of his daughters' names could be translated Cornblossom, but >> none are documented with that name. Their husbands are all known and >> none includes a Blevins or a Troxell. Two of his daughters married >> Colonel James Colbert, a half-blood Chickasaw, near what is now Muscle >> Shoals, AL. >> >> Fourth, many of them have Cornblossom as born about 1758 and her first >> child born two years later in 1760. Maybe if she were 12 or 14 there >> would be a chance, but not TWO! >> >> Fifth, they all use modern place names. They have Jonathan Blevins >> (my research indicates he probably was Sarah's father) as born in >> Wayne County, KY about 1780. At the time of his birth, the area might >> have been Lincoln County or Kentucky County, depending on when in the >> year he was born, but BOTH were in Virginia. Kentucky did not become >> a state until 1792. On the 1850 census, he showed birth place of >> Virginia, which was true. Wayne County did not exist until 1800. In >> time order from colonial days it was Kentucky County, Lincoln County, >> Green County, Cumberland County and Pulaski County - the last two >> ceding land to the new county when Wayne was formed. If they had done >> their research, they would know the information was incorrect, but it >> was apparently just copied and pasted or appended. >> >> I don't see anything in the portions of Sarah's heritage I can verify >> that lead to the Cherokee and a blood connection there. As far as I >> know, the Troxell story has been discredited, but I may be mistaken on >> that - Joy or Joyce, can you help my memory? I have very deep roots in >> Wayne County, KY, but there is nothing in the history of the area that >> leads me to believe the Cherokees played a significant role there, if >> any. What I do find of your families is the same story for most of >> the early settlers - Virginians who either moved there and claimed >> Revolutionary Bounty Land in the area, or the younger sons of Virginia >> households who had no real future in their home counties looking for a >> start in life with real possibilities. For some born in Virginia and >> Virginia Colony, they never moved at all - the county and state lines >> moved around them. Many colonial Virginia families DID have mixed >> heritages, but it was largely mixed black and white. In the early >> years of the colony Free Blacks were accorded the same respect and >> status as the white colonists. In fact, it was far more respectable >> to be a Free Black than to be an indentured servant. Indentureds >> were treated worse than slaves because they had come to the colonies >> poor with hat in hand, where slaves had value to the planters (not my >> feelings at all, but that was the thinking of those days). It was >> illegal for indentured servants to marry anyone other than an >> indentured servant and many, especially the women, "married" slaves. >> In later years when prejudice against the black community had arisen, >> it was far easier, more acceptable, and safer to claim being half >> Indian than being Mulatto. Indians were not chased by slave catchers >> so much. So, those who could hide in plain sight as white did, while >> those with darker skin hid in plain sight as Indians. Italians, >> Portuguese, and so on. >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 11:17 PM, Earleene <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Trying to confirm heritage of sarah steel,daughter of christian steel >>> and >>> elizabeth blevins. sarah said she was 1/2 cherokee. she married abramham >>> tinker from unicoi tn,they setteled in dade co ga & dekalb co al. she is >>> my3rd great grandmother. earleene >>> =====*NOTICE THIS*===== >>> this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting >>> is required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. >>> >>> Rude people will be moderated asap! >>> List archive >>> http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene >>> Dual admin. >>> Dan and Joyce >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> =====*NOTICE THIS*===== >> this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting >> is >> required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. >> >> Rude people will be moderated asap! >> List archive >> http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene >> Dual admin. >> Dan and Joyce >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting is > required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I have never heard this story, i will look up mine.& get back to you ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alli :)" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 12:32 AM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] heritage > what is mixed up? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Earleene" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 10:20 PM > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] heritage > > >> you have several families mixed up you do not have my family, >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Susan Reynolds" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 1:51 AM >> Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] heritage >> >> >>> Hello, Earleene! >>> >>> This is one of those hard ones because there is an awful lot of bad >>> information out there about Sarah's alleged lineage. At most she >>> would have been 1/32, if I have counted right, maybe 1/16th but no >>> more than that. I am assuming you have probably seen some of the >>> family trees on the web that have her several times great grandmother >>> as Princess Cornblossom Doublehead or Cornblossom Chuqualatague >>> Doublehead Shawnee (married to Daniel Belvins)? This last name is the >>> way Don Greene shows lineage in his books on the Shawnee - all of >>> which are totally unsupported and unsourced - and not a name at all. >>> Chuqualatague was simply another name that was attributed to >>> Doublehead. Some of the trees have Sarah's mother or grandmother >>> married to Jacob "Big Jake" Troxell after the death of their fist >>> husband, others have Cornblossom married to Jake Troxell after >>> Daniel's death. All of them have a huge mess when it comes to >>> children in those earlier generations, largely because there is >>> absolutley ZERO documentation on them and multiple families are mixed >>> together. >>> >>> There are a few things in those trees that tip them off as incorrect. >>> The first is PRINCESS. There were no Native American princesses. >>> That was the Englishman's designation for the daughter of a chief, but >>> the daughters were not royalty, nor were the sons and they had no >>> special place of precedence because of their father's position. >>> >>> The second is Shawnee. There is a lovely tale on the internet that >>> has John Pasmere Carpenter married to a Shawnee lass named Pride in >>> Jamestown, Virginia Colony in about 1627 or 1628. They supposedly had >>> a son named A-ma-do-ya who became chief at Chota later in the mid >>> 1600s, founding the Cherokee Moytoy line. It's a lovely story, but it >>> is just that. Virginia records disprove it. John Pasmere Carpenter >>> did not exist. John Pasmore, a carpenter of James City, later >>> Jamestown, did exist and it is an INDEX entry from the Virginia >>> Library digital land records that gives rise to the other name. The >>> index entry is in error as the land lease clearly shows. If you would >>> like the documentation, I will be happy to send it to you. Still it >>> IS a pretty story, it's just fiction, not fact. >>> >>> Third, Doublehead was well known and his line is well documented. >>> Maybe one of his daughters' names could be translated Cornblossom, but >>> none are documented with that name. Their husbands are all known and >>> none includes a Blevins or a Troxell. Two of his daughters married >>> Colonel James Colbert, a half-blood Chickasaw, near what is now Muscle >>> Shoals, AL. >>> >>> Fourth, many of them have Cornblossom as born about 1758 and her first >>> child born two years later in 1760. Maybe if she were 12 or 14 there >>> would be a chance, but not TWO! >>> >>> Fifth, they all use modern place names. They have Jonathan Blevins >>> (my research indicates he probably was Sarah's father) as born in >>> Wayne County, KY about 1780. At the time of his birth, the area might >>> have been Lincoln County or Kentucky County, depending on when in the >>> year he was born, but BOTH were in Virginia. Kentucky did not become >>> a state until 1792. On the 1850 census, he showed birth place of >>> Virginia, which was true. Wayne County did not exist until 1800. In >>> time order from colonial days it was Kentucky County, Lincoln County, >>> Green County, Cumberland County and Pulaski County - the last two >>> ceding land to the new county when Wayne was formed. If they had done >>> their research, they would know the information was incorrect, but it >>> was apparently just copied and pasted or appended. >>> >>> I don't see anything in the portions of Sarah's heritage I can verify >>> that lead to the Cherokee and a blood connection there. As far as I >>> know, the Troxell story has been discredited, but I may be mistaken on >>> that - Joy or Joyce, can you help my memory? I have very deep roots in >>> Wayne County, KY, but there is nothing in the history of the area that >>> leads me to believe the Cherokees played a significant role there, if >>> any. What I do find of your families is the same story for most of >>> the early settlers - Virginians who either moved there and claimed >>> Revolutionary Bounty Land in the area, or the younger sons of Virginia >>> households who had no real future in their home counties looking for a >>> start in life with real possibilities. For some born in Virginia and >>> Virginia Colony, they never moved at all - the county and state lines >>> moved around them. Many colonial Virginia families DID have mixed >>> heritages, but it was largely mixed black and white. In the early >>> years of the colony Free Blacks were accorded the same respect and >>> status as the white colonists. In fact, it was far more respectable >>> to be a Free Black than to be an indentured servant. Indentureds >>> were treated worse than slaves because they had come to the colonies >>> poor with hat in hand, where slaves had value to the planters (not my >>> feelings at all, but that was the thinking of those days). It was >>> illegal for indentured servants to marry anyone other than an >>> indentured servant and many, especially the women, "married" slaves. >>> In later years when prejudice against the black community had arisen, >>> it was far easier, more acceptable, and safer to claim being half >>> Indian than being Mulatto. Indians were not chased by slave catchers >>> so much. So, those who could hide in plain sight as white did, while >>> those with darker skin hid in plain sight as Indians. Italians, >>> Portuguese, and so on. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 11:17 PM, Earleene <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>> Trying to confirm heritage of sarah steel,daughter of christian steel >>>> and >>>> elizabeth blevins. sarah said she was 1/2 cherokee. she married >>>> abramham >>>> tinker from unicoi tn,they setteled in dade co ga & dekalb co al. she >>>> is >>>> my3rd great grandmother. earleene >>>> =====*NOTICE THIS*===== >>>> this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain >>>> chatting >>>> is required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. >>>> >>>> Rude people will be moderated asap! >>>> List archive >>>> http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene >>>> Dual admin. >>>> Dan and Joyce >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>> the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> =====*NOTICE THIS*===== >>> this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting >>> is >>> required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. >>> >>> Rude people will be moderated asap! >>> List archive >>> http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene >>> Dual admin. >>> Dan and Joyce >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> =====*NOTICE THIS*===== >> this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting >> is >> required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. >> >> Rude people will be moderated asap! >> List archive >> http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene >> Dual admin. >> Dan and Joyce >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting is > required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message