Notice that the list is called (Cherokee genealogy) so folks know we are dealing with Cherokee in mind. The rest of the conversation goes to [email protected] its like having a class for math and a class for english you have to go to another room. Because the lists being archived researchers are spared the drama . Aho? yes? Means the drama is fine on the other group. People join both groups. Those who want just the facts mamm are here. as also I have all the roles on my website for download and Judy as well on access genealogy. so if we must chatter there is also cherokeechat and cherokeemainvillage and cherokeeprayer cherokeemusic cherokeehistory ... Oh. You got off that one .. Well if you really want to pass drama lets use some other group. Facts. Work on getting and posting facts some times requires conversation. But not about non related topics. I might not have a phd but I have the mod buttons. Dan On Dec 4, 2012 8:51 PM, "BARBARA GORDON-LANTTO" <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello Dan > > MY mother was a Genealogist. She also was the Librarian at the University > of > Willamette Oregon. > > She died not knowing who she was nor that she was a Cherokee named > Virginia. > She died not knowing the story of our family. All she knew was > Names,Births, Deaths, dates, and locations.And White.All written out on a > big piece of cardboard. She never connected the dots.She never knew why her > mother was "Georgia" > > Thanks > BARB > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dj M" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 8:10 PM > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy > > > > This is not a Cherokee study list. > > Its genealogy. > > Meaning people connecting names (not) history. > > [email protected] is where we talk about Cherokee in general. > > This list is only to help people connect names. > > The rest is moot here. > > Thanks. > > Folks. If you want to chit chat I have a empty group on yahoo calked The > > American Indian yall can join to battle what info is good or bad. If a > > name > > connects.. It connects. I dont see any relivancy to enclosed topic here. > > Aho? > > On Dec 4, 2012 6:51 PM, "BARBARA GORDON-LANTTO" <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > When researching the Cherokee, one must take all information and then > > > follow > > > up till there is no where else to go. > > > But I would take anything government says with a grain of salt. Just > use > > > that information as a set of clues. > > > > > > Government says that "if it is not in writing, It never was so." > > > However, memorising around the camp fire is a long Native tradition. It > > > was > > > part of the learning process, before the Cherokee had to hide. Then > > > genealogy was hidden.( to protect the family) > > > > > > BARB > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Alli :)" <[email protected]> > > > To: <[email protected]> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 9:40 AM > > > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy > > > > > > > > > > I have always taken information given to me with a grain of > > > > salt....not > > > > because i didn't believe that the person could be true. But because, > > > > as > > > > you > > > > said, its just their word. No back up. > > > > > > > > My dad grew up knowing he had Cherokee blood in him. He > > > > thought/assumed > > > > that > > > > it was his grandma who was the full blood or at least 1/2, mainly > > > > because > > > > of > > > > her facial appearance. But also because he went to Tahlequah with her > > > > by > > > > train to fill out her application for the Eastern Band of Cherokee. > > > > She > > > > was > > > > suppose to go back the next day to answer some more questions, but > she > > > > didn't have the money for a hotel room or food for her let alone both > > > > of > > > > them. Now this is his account of this day. But.....somewhere there's > a > > > > record of her doing this. I just haven't found it yet. :) > > > > > > > > But when I found the applications for his great grandma (my dbl > > > > great), > > > he > > > > wanted to argue because he thought it was his grandma (my great) > until > > > > i > > > > showed him what i found. > > > > > > > > The other story is that my great grandma's brother Sam found their > > > > connection & proved it & he was able to get their land. I have no > > > > where > > > to > > > > look for later proof, but it wasn't with their applications that they > > > > did > > > > in > > > > 1907. So I told my dad that just because he said or that his grandma > > > > said...won't work when contacting the CNO, I have to "show" proof LOL > > > > > > > > I had to laugh when you mentioned the Journal in book form as proof. > I > > > > have > > > > a copy of my great grandpa's divorce record....its a "journal" of his > > > > court > > > > record of asking for a divorce through a court. Its hand written. I > > > > told > > > > family on this side of the tree & they wanted to argue because no one > > > knew > > > > that our great grandpa was married or divorced prior to our great > > > grandma. > > > > I > > > > said he also had 2 kids prior & our uncle from the second marriage > had > > > > been > > > > in touch with them......ohhhhhhh talk about a skeleton filled closet > > > > :) > > > > > > > > Alli ;0) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Joyce Gaston Reece" <[email protected]> > > > > To: <[email protected]> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 6:15 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy > > > > > > > > > > > > >I once knew a doctor's assistant who was Cherokee and a member of > the > > > > > Keetowah Band. I once asked her about a written or oral history of > > > > > the > > > > > Cherokee Indian. Her simple statement was that there wasn't one. > > > > > Only > > > > > an > > > > > oral history. Then I'm reminded of the 1950's tv show with a man > > > > > named > > > > > Art > > > > > Linkletter. It was an earlier version of today's 'talk show'. At > > > > > the > > > > > beginning of one show he went to someone in the first row of the > > > > > audience > > > > > and gave them a phrase to pass on to a person in the next row then > > > wrote > > > > > down the phrase. Throughout the show the phrase was passed from > one > > > > > person > > > > > to another until it got to the back row of seats. At the end of > the > > > > > show > > > > > Mr. Linkletter asked the person to tell what he'd been told. Not > > > > > suprisingly, the phrase he was told then was nothing like the > phrase > > > > > that > > > > > he'd begun with. > > > > > > > > > > In genealogical circles, oral history is never considered > > > > > documentation > > > > > unless there's other evidence to back it up. So, can we accept > > > Cherokee > > > > > elder's stories as genealogical family history? > > > > > > > > > > BOOKS? Books, according to the highest genealogical standards, are > > > > > always > > > > > considered SECONDARY resources. It doesn't matters how many books > > > > > one > > > > > reads > > > > > if the books aren't historically accurate, with citations, > resources > > > > > then > > > > > it > > > > > is just someone's fictional tale. I've seen many books that > > > > > resourced > > > a > > > > > dozen other books....not one primary resource in the lot. These > are > > > not > > > > > acceptable genealogical proof. Although there are exceptions to > > > > > this....in > > > > > my opinion. Journal transcriptions in book form, transcriptions of > > > > > deeds > > > > > or > > > > > other primary resources are acceptable. The journals of Needham & > > > > > Fallam, > > > > > Lawson & Gist, for instance. > > > > > > > > > > So, when we read someone else's opinion or listen to someone's > > > > > stories > > > > > about > > > > > a history do we accept these in blind faith? Or do we act like > good > > > > > researchers and verify the sources, check the facts? The only > solid > > > > > documentation we have in most cases of Indian and white > > > > > relationships > > > in > > > > > colonial times are the records kept by the whites. Do we take > these > > > > > with > > > > > grains of salt...sure we do! > > > > > > > > > > This and all these lists are for genealogy not mythology. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joyce Gaston Reece > > > > > > > > > > > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > > > > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain > > > > chatting > > > > is required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. > > > > > > > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > > > > List archive > > > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > > > > Dual admin. > > > > Dan and Joyce > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > > the > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > > > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain > chatting > > > is required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. > > > > > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > > > List archive > > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > > > Dual admin. > > > Dan and Joyce > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > > the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting > > is required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. > > > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > > List archive > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > > Dual admin. > > Dan and Joyce > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting > is required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

holey cow......there was a lot of excess message left....... :) Dan, what is your link again (yes, after 15 yrs I should have that sucker memorized) & for Judy's is it just www.accessgenealogy.com or is it different? Thanks Alli :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dj M" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 11:31 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy > Notice that the list is called (Cherokee genealogy) > so folks know we are dealing with Cherokee in mind. > The rest of the conversation goes to [email protected] its like having > a class for math and a class for english you have to go to another room. > Because the lists being archived researchers are spared the drama . > Aho? > yes? > Means the drama is fine on the other group. People join both groups. Those > who want just the facts mamm are here. > as also I have all the roles on my website for download and Judy as well > on access genealogy. > so if we must chatter there is also cherokeechat and cherokeemainvillage > and cherokeeprayer cherokeemusic cherokeehistory ... Oh. You got off that > one .. Well if you really want to pass drama lets use some other group. > Facts. Work on getting and posting facts some times requires conversation. > But not about non related topics. I might not have a phd but I have the > mod > buttons. > Dan

I HAVE A QUESTION FOR WHOEVER KNOWS, IF A WHITE MAN MARRIES INTO THE INDIAN FAMILY ARE THEY CONCIDERED AN INDIAN? I HAVE READ MANY REPORTS ABOUT THIS SORT OF THING SO I.M WONDERING???? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dj M" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 1:31 AM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy > Notice that the list is called (Cherokee genealogy) > so folks know we are dealing with Cherokee in mind. > The rest of the conversation goes to [email protected] its like having > a class for math and a class for english you have to go to another room. > Because the lists being archived researchers are spared the drama . > Aho? > yes? > Means the drama is fine on the other group. People join both groups. Those > who want just the facts mamm are here. > as also I have all the roles on my website for download and Judy as well > on access genealogy. > so if we must chatter there is also cherokeechat and cherokeemainvillage > and cherokeeprayer cherokeemusic cherokeehistory ... Oh. You got off that > one .. Well if you really want to pass drama lets use some other group. > Facts. Work on getting and posting facts some times requires conversation. > But not about non related topics. I might not have a phd but I have the > mod > buttons. > Dan > On Dec 4, 2012 8:51 PM, "BARBARA GORDON-LANTTO" <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Hello Dan >> >> MY mother was a Genealogist. She also was the Librarian at the University >> of >> Willamette Oregon. >> >> She died not knowing who she was nor that she was a Cherokee named >> Virginia. >> She died not knowing the story of our family. All she knew was >> Names,Births, Deaths, dates, and locations.And White.All written out on >> a >> big piece of cardboard. She never connected the dots.She never knew why >> her >> mother was "Georgia" >> >> Thanks >> BARB >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dj M" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 8:10 PM >> Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy >> >> >> > This is not a Cherokee study list. >> > Its genealogy. >> > Meaning people connecting names (not) history. >> > [email protected] is where we talk about Cherokee in general. >> > This list is only to help people connect names. >> > The rest is moot here. >> > Thanks. >> > Folks. If you want to chit chat I have a empty group on yahoo calked >> > The >> > American Indian yall can join to battle what info is good or bad. If a >> > name >> > connects.. It connects. I dont see any relivancy to enclosed topic >> > here. >> > Aho? >> > On Dec 4, 2012 6:51 PM, "BARBARA GORDON-LANTTO" <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> > >> > > When researching the Cherokee, one must take all information and then >> > > follow >> > > up till there is no where else to go. >> > > But I would take anything government says with a grain of salt. Just >> use >> > > that information as a set of clues. >> > > >> > > Government says that "if it is not in writing, It never was so." >> > > However, memorising around the camp fire is a long Native tradition. >> > > It >> > > was >> > > part of the learning process, before the Cherokee had to hide. Then >> > > genealogy was hidden.( to protect the family) >> > > >> > > BARB >> > > >> > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: "Alli :)" <[email protected]> >> > > To: <[email protected]> >> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 9:40 AM >> > > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy >> > > >> > > >> > > > I have always taken information given to me with a grain of >> > > > salt....not >> > > > because i didn't believe that the person could be true. But >> > > > because, >> > > > as >> > > > you >> > > > said, its just their word. No back up. >> > > > >> > > > My dad grew up knowing he had Cherokee blood in him. He >> > > > thought/assumed >> > > > that >> > > > it was his grandma who was the full blood or at least 1/2, mainly >> > > > because >> > > > of >> > > > her facial appearance. But also because he went to Tahlequah with >> > > > her >> > > > by >> > > > train to fill out her application for the Eastern Band of Cherokee. >> > > > She >> > > > was >> > > > suppose to go back the next day to answer some more questions, but >> she >> > > > didn't have the money for a hotel room or food for her let alone >> > > > both >> > > > of >> > > > them. Now this is his account of this day. But.....somewhere >> > > > there's >> a >> > > > record of her doing this. I just haven't found it yet. :) >> > > > >> > > > But when I found the applications for his great grandma (my dbl >> > > > great), >> > > he >> > > > wanted to argue because he thought it was his grandma (my great) >> until >> > > > i >> > > > showed him what i found. >> > > > >> > > > The other story is that my great grandma's brother Sam found their >> > > > connection & proved it & he was able to get their land. I have no >> > > > where >> > > to >> > > > look for later proof, but it wasn't with their applications that >> > > > they >> > > > did >> > > > in >> > > > 1907. So I told my dad that just because he said or that his >> > > > grandma >> > > > said...won't work when contacting the CNO, I have to "show" proof >> > > > LOL >> > > > >> > > > I had to laugh when you mentioned the Journal in book form as >> > > > proof. >> I >> > > > have >> > > > a copy of my great grandpa's divorce record....its a "journal" of >> > > > his >> > > > court >> > > > record of asking for a divorce through a court. Its hand written. I >> > > > told >> > > > family on this side of the tree & they wanted to argue because no >> > > > one >> > > knew >> > > > that our great grandpa was married or divorced prior to our great >> > > grandma. >> > > > I >> > > > said he also had 2 kids prior & our uncle from the second marriage >> had >> > > > been >> > > > in touch with them......ohhhhhhh talk about a skeleton filled >> > > > closet >> > > > :) >> > > > >> > > > Alli ;0) >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > > From: "Joyce Gaston Reece" <[email protected]> >> > > > To: <[email protected]> >> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 6:15 AM >> > > > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >I once knew a doctor's assistant who was Cherokee and a member of >> the >> > > > > Keetowah Band. I once asked her about a written or oral history >> > > > > of >> > > > > the >> > > > > Cherokee Indian. Her simple statement was that there wasn't one. >> > > > > Only >> > > > > an >> > > > > oral history. Then I'm reminded of the 1950's tv show with a man >> > > > > named >> > > > > Art >> > > > > Linkletter. It was an earlier version of today's 'talk show'. >> > > > > At >> > > > > the >> > > > > beginning of one show he went to someone in the first row of the >> > > > > audience >> > > > > and gave them a phrase to pass on to a person in the next row >> > > > > then >> > > wrote >> > > > > down the phrase. Throughout the show the phrase was passed from >> one >> > > > > person >> > > > > to another until it got to the back row of seats. At the end of >> the >> > > > > show >> > > > > Mr. Linkletter asked the person to tell what he'd been told. Not >> > > > > suprisingly, the phrase he was told then was nothing like the >> phrase >> > > > > that >> > > > > he'd begun with. >> > > > > >> > > > > In genealogical circles, oral history is never considered >> > > > > documentation >> > > > > unless there's other evidence to back it up. So, can we accept >> > > Cherokee >> > > > > elder's stories as genealogical family history? >> > > > > >> > > > > BOOKS? Books, according to the highest genealogical standards, >> > > > > are >> > > > > always >> > > > > considered SECONDARY resources. It doesn't matters how many >> > > > > books >> > > > > one >> > > > > reads >> > > > > if the books aren't historically accurate, with citations, >> resources >> > > > > then >> > > > > it >> > > > > is just someone's fictional tale. I've seen many books that >> > > > > resourced >> > > a >> > > > > dozen other books....not one primary resource in the lot. These >> are >> > > not >> > > > > acceptable genealogical proof. Although there are exceptions to >> > > > > this....in >> > > > > my opinion. Journal transcriptions in book form, transcriptions >> > > > > of >> > > > > deeds >> > > > > or >> > > > > other primary resources are acceptable. The journals of Needham >> > > > > & >> > > > > Fallam, >> > > > > Lawson & Gist, for instance. >> > > > > >> > > > > So, when we read someone else's opinion or listen to someone's >> > > > > stories >> > > > > about >> > > > > a history do we accept these in blind faith? Or do we act like >> good >> > > > > researchers and verify the sources, check the facts? The only >> solid >> > > > > documentation we have in most cases of Indian and white >> > > > > relationships >> > > in >> > > > > colonial times are the records kept by the whites. Do we take >> these >> > > > > with >> > > > > grains of salt...sure we do! >> > > > > >> > > > > This and all these lists are for genealogy not mythology. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Joyce Gaston Reece >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== >> > > > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain >> > > > chatting >> > > > is required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. >> > > > >> > > > Rude people will be moderated asap! >> > > > List archive >> > > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene >> > > > Dual admin. >> > > > Dan and Joyce >> > > > ------------------------------- >> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > > the >> > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > >> > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== >> > > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain >> chatting >> > > is required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. >> > > >> > > Rude people will be moderated asap! >> > > List archive >> > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene >> > > Dual admin. >> > > Dan and Joyce >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> > > the >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== >> > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain >> > chatting >> > is required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. >> > >> > Rude people will be moderated asap! >> > List archive >> > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene >> > Dual admin. >> > Dan and Joyce >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> =====*NOTICE THIS*===== >> this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting >> is required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. >> >> Rude people will be moderated asap! >> List archive >> http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene >> Dual admin. >> Dan and Joyce >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting is > required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message