I have the Dobson book. He is listed on pg 66 It says Jacobite captured at Preston transported from Liverpool to SC on the Susannah master Thomas Bromhall 7 MAy 1716. sources Calendar of Treasurey books and Colonial State papers I suppose of SC. I agree with you. Do not believe all those lineages on who were his parents. Do not think that has been figured out yet. I think that is is very possible he came from one of the lesser branches. I used to belong to Clan Grant and they had no idea who were his parents. I prefeer the truth but like so many things on line that are not so it is hard to get people to believe the truth they want to cling to the old stories and lineages. Keep digging. you are doing a great job. Glee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Reynolds" <s3js@cox.net> To: <CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 5:39 PM Subject: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] Ludovic Grant >I didn't intend to open a can of worms the other night, but I have been >doing some reading in a book by Archibald Kennedy Cassilis called: > The rulers of Strathspey : a history of the lairds of Grant and earls of > Seafield , Inverness: The Northern Counties Newspaper and Print. and Pub. > Co., 1911, 235 pgs. This is a well-documented accounting of the Clan > Grant's leadership. > > This book chronicles the Grant family in Scotland that is traditionally > cited as that of the Scots trader Ludovic Grant, progenitor of the mixed > blood Cherokee family of that name. > > As a rule, it is traditionally accepted that Ludovic was the "Clan Chief" > of Clan Grant and, after capture at the Battle of Prestonpans in 1715 > (this Jacobite uprising is called "The 15") lost his lands, was > transported to the Colonies aboard the Susannah, landing at Charleston > (does anyone know if this came from one of Starr's notes or Dobson?). It > is further believed his cousins went to Boston and the Caribbean. I can > buy the possibility of Jamaica or one of the other islands, but Boston > doesn't sound quite right. I might be wrong, but it seems most of those > transported to the Colonies went either to Virginia (which included the > islands if I recall correctly), Maryland, Pennsylvania, a few points > south. I haven't run across Boston. I've also seen at least one claim he > was the 2nd Baronet, himself. > > However, while there are several Ludovics in the Strathspey lineage, none > of them meet the profile for the Cherokee trader. I posted information on > Ludovic Grant and Janet Brodie the other evening. This Ludovic was born > about 1665 and was 8th Laird of Feruchie, 1st Laird of Grant (this is the > first "official" use if the Grant designator). He had the potential to be > the father or grandfather of Trader Ludovic. His son John had a son > Ludovic born 1707, though, so this turned out to not be plausible. This > second Ludovic would have been only 8 years old at the Battle of > Prestonpans and his life, and death in 1773, are documented in Scotland. > The most telling point on the Ludovics of this line is that they all lived > and died in Scotland. The other important point is that the Grants of > this line were staunch Royalists and fought against the Jacobites. The > only conclusion I can draw is he did not come from this particular Clan > Grant, which is that of the Clan Chief, but one of the branches of the > clan. Just as a matter of interest, Sir Ludovic Grant, 8th of Feruchie, > 1st of Grant was a major force behind standardization of tartan color and > design by clan in the early 1700's and is credited as having the first > official clan tartan. > > Most likely, Trader Ludovic came from Grant of Glenmoriston (some > authorities list this as recognized as its own clan, but it is still a > branch from the main clan) or of Dalvey. Glenmoriston traces its origin to > one John Mor' Grant, the "natural" (had to look this one up. Leave it to > the British to come up with an elegant way of saying illegitimate) son of > John Grant, 2d Laird of Feruchie (John's father was Duncan, 1st of > Feruchie) and reportedly a daughter of Baron Stewart of Kincardine. > Glenmoriston was staunchly Jacobite. It was this branch that lost its > lands in reprisal for the 15, but those lands returned to Grant control in > 1733 under the Grants of Grant and Feruchie, not under Glenmoriston. > > John's younger brother, Patrick, was the progenitor of the Grants of > Dalvey, later called Dunlugas in Banffshire, another possibility for > Trader Ludovic as they were also Jacobite in their leanings. > > Neither of these two groups was very large at the time of the 15. > > There is one other possibility that needs to be explored, but I keep > hitting a wall on it. One Walter Grant and his wife Margaret Leslie > christened a son Lodovick at Boharm, Moray, Scotland in Nov 1862 (parish > register, Boharm). I am looking into this, but I don't find Walter among > the lineages above. Margaret Leslie was the daughter of a nobleman and I > found one brief reference regarding their marriage in the Leslie family > records. That book is several times longer than the Strathspey reference, > so I haven't finished it yet. I believe this location was associated with > the Grants of Glenmoriston, but can't find that in my notes at the moment. > At any rate, this Ludovic is a good match for Trader Ludovic. > > It must also be noted that there were many people in the clan named Grant > but not of the Laird's direct line. People often assumed the surname out > of respect for the leader and added it to their own surnames. Ludovic > could, of course, have been an illegitimate son of the laird, but these > seem to have been acknowledged fairly well, so I hold my judgment on that > score. It could also be one of those lovely, romantic tales with a grain > of truth. Trader Ludovic could have been the son of a loyal retainer or > distant kinsman who fought at his lord's bidding and embroidered that > relationship when he go to this side of the ocean. > > Does anyone have this book or CD to check and see exactly what it says and > which other Grants were transported to where after the 15 ? > "Directory of Scots Banished to the American Plantations, 1650-1775", by > David Dobson, Genealogical Publishing Co, Baltimore, 1983 > > Happy time travels! > Susan > > > > ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== > This list is for Genealogy related conversations > Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html > Please Good manors and no flaming others > For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit > CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com > You can also find what you need search the archives > or to get off this list via web site below > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html > Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com > >