Hello, Don! Looking at the posted family trees on this line, I'm inclined to take them with a huge grain of salt. Some of them say Cherokee Land, Grant, Minnesota. That looks suspiciously like it should read land grant in Minnesota. Grant County MN was formed in 1868 and named for Ulysses S. Grant. The city of Grant in Washington County, MN was also named for U.S. Grant, so it was not formed until after the Civil War, unless it was simply renamed. I can't find a history to confirm or deny. If he was born on a land grant in MN, that would not have been an American grant. MN belonged to the French at the time in question, so you would need to find where their records for the area are archived - if any existed. I would think they might be in Toronto. The French ceded this possession to Spain in 1762. In 1783, the Treaty of Paris that ended the Revolution gave the part of modern MN east of the Mississippi River to the United States. MN reverted to French control and was then part of the Louisiana Purchase in 1803. I haven't looked into what names applied under the Spanish and French, so I can't tell you if they are different or not. If Nathaniel WILBER was Cherokee, it is highly unlikely he was born in MN. In this area you should probably be looking at the Dakota, Ojibwe, or Anishinaabe. An occasional Cherokee MIGHT have drifted into the area, but the Cherokee domain was in the modern states of TN, GA, AL, NC, a little in SC. Kat looks like the English nickname for Katherine, not a Cherokee name (some of those trees show Kat as the Cherokee Chief and this would not have been. The women's honorifics would have been Beloved Woman, possibly War Woman, but not chief in that era). A lot of the mythological Cherokee genealogies give locations with modern locations that did not exist at that time. One case in point is Doublehead's birth place. Doublehead was born around 1744. In accounts of the Yahoo Falls Massacre (that I have proven as fictitious with documentation), his birth place is given as Stearns, McCreary County, KY. Stearns did not exist until 1902 when Justus S. STEARNS founded it as the company town for the Stearns Coal and Lumber Company in an area that was in Wayne County at that time. McCreary County was formed in 1912 from portions of Whitley, Pulaski, and Wayne Counties. It was KY's last county. The Cherokee hunted in what is now KY, but did not actually live there (at least by this time). Cherokee hunters did have long term camps there, sometimes lasting a few years which groups of hunters rotated in and out of, but no permanent towns. While there is an arguable case that Doublehead could have been born there when his parents hunted in KY and stayed in a camp where his mother birthed him away from home, this too is unlikely. Women did not often accompany the hunters, except on occasion to prepare food and perform women's tasks. A pregnant woman would not have accompanied the hunters at all. Theda Perdue, in Cherokee Women: Gender and Culture Change 1700-1835, pages 30-31, states that the Cherokees believed pregnant women to be extremely powerful both naturally and spiritually (what whites understand as powerful medicine!) and while they did not go into seclusion as they normally did monthly, they still limited their activities. They didn't go to ceremonies, visit sick people, observe ball games. Cherokees avoided any paths pregnant women walked on and did not eat anything the prepared. Their presence would have contaminated the hunt. Perdue notes that evidence indicates their men also limited their activities and did not fish, hunt, or even fight during their wives pregnancies. Since Doublehead's father was Tifftoya of Tanassee, also known as Willenawah or Great Eagle,this argues for Tanassee as Doublehead's birth place. In 1720, the Cherokee had not yet converted to centralized government and each town had its own chiefs - Peace or white chief and War or red chief. In 1730, when he took seven representative Cherokee "headmen" to England to meet George II, Alexander CUMMING had declared Moytoy emperor or King of the Cherokees, but this was a European construct that did not accurately depict Cherokee social and civil organization. It was strictly for CUMMING's "diplomatic" purposes. The Cherokees did not coalesce into a centralized form until the late 1780s and early 1790s. Even then, they did not have elected chiefs until 1828, they had chiefs chosen more by acclamation. Nathaniel WILBER could not have been Chief of the Cherokee Nation because Cherokee Nation did not come into existence during his lifetime and the position did not yet exist as far as the Cherokees were concern, regardless of CUMMING's machinations. I don't find anything in the various records I have available, which are many, that show any name close to WILBER that match yours. There was a Nathan P. WILBER that married a Shawnee woman named Sarah H. "Dean" BLUEJACKET in the Dawes Commission Records. They lived in Cherokee Nation and appear on Cherokee by blood card 3312, although she was Shawnee. He was white and born in 1848. There are two Wilber/Wilbur Eastern Cherokee Applications, Lula and Lena Josie, but these are married names and they were also born in the 19th century, not the 18th. Lula was from St. Louis and Lena from Peters, TN. Lena's maiden name was LEDFORD and they have Cherokee ties, but I don't have any details of just how at the moment. The closest name I find is in Jim Hicks's Cherokee Lineages website - Wilburn - http://www.genealogy.com/ftm/h/i/c/James-R-Hicks-VA/BOOK-0001/0021-0033.html#IND70384REF23. In 1788 Sarah Hicks, the daughter of Na-Ye-Hi CONRAD and Nathan HICKS married a man surnamed WILBURN, given name unknown at this time. Sarah was sister to Charles Renatus HICKS and William Abraham HICKS. Charles Renatus was for some years Assistant Principal Chief. In early January 1827 Principal Chief Pathkiller died and Charles R. HICKS rose to the Principal Chief position. Sadly, he died 2 weeks later on 20 January 1827. William Abraham HICKS, was also a chief, but not Principal Chief. He was defeated by John ROSS in the election of 1828, the first under the Cherokee Constitution of 1827. He never recovered from the defeat. Every family story has at least a kernel of truth buried in it somewhere. I suspect the story of Nathaniel Wilber is wrapped up in Sarah HICKS's story. It looks to me like the story MIGHT go this way: Nathaniel WILBER (read this as WILBURN) was born in an unknown location about 1720. Sometime between 1735 and 1745 he married a woman name Kat and had a daughter named Frances Elizabeth about 1745 in Wayne County, TN (this is outside the Cherokee domain) and a son sometime before 1756, when he died in TN. This son then married Sarah HICKS, but there is no record of any children born to them. He was not a chief, however, but brother-in-law to chiefs. ​OR​ ​Unknown given name WILBER (read this as WILBURN) was born in an unknown location about 1720. Sometime between 1735 and 1745 he married a woman name Kat and had a daughter named Frances Elizabeth about 1745 in Wayne County, TN (this is outside the Cherokee domain) and a son sometime before 1756, when he died in TN. This son then married Sarah HICKS, but there is no record of any children born to them. Somewhere along the way, Sarah's father's given name NATHAN became conflated with his son-in-law's father's given name, as did her brother, Charles's position as Principal Chief. ​ ​Of course, the Nathan P. WILBER on Cherokee card 3312 could also be the source of the story. People often see only the cards and misunderstand what they mean. Census card 3312 does not show that Sarah BLUEJACKET was Shawnee. The card also does not indicate that Nathan P. WILBER was originally accepted for enrollment by intermarriage and subsequently struck from the rolls in 1907. This information is only found in the Dawes Application Packet itself. Sadly, many of these stories are wishes rather than facts. BTW, I have OTTs in my line in AL, MS, that connect to my Tynes lines. If you have people in these areas, feel free to contact me off list and I'll be happy to chat about them. Kindest regards, Susan Reynolds On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 9:51 AM, Don Ott via <cherokeegene@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Recent family research found Nathaniel Wilber 1720-1756, “Cherokee > Chief” born Land, Grant, Minnesota. His wife was called Kat. Not finding > much on this line. Any help appreciated. > Don > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > Cherokee genealogy; certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and > sort fact from (fiction). > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > please take non genealogy to Cherokee@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CHEROKEEGENE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Susan Thank you so much for the diligent efforts you put into the answer to my question. I have been trying to follow much of the information you provided, sorry for the delay in replying. This family was very distantly related to my wife through the Atkinson and Henry lines. I suspect that these folks may have come from the Canadian side of the border and have no idea if he was some sort of a Chief or not. I have helped define the "Benge Trail Of Tears" and get it properly marked. I live on this trail and have always been told that some of my ancestors may have married into that group. I have not been able to document that and DNA does not seem to justify the story. This 1838 march began in Alabama and most of my folks came from Kentucky. As to your comment about Ott relations, I have researched 17 different groups of the Ott family that I have not been able to tie together. Although I have been to Switzerland, Germany and Alsace, records on the 1200, 1300 and 1400 time frame are difficult. The earliest Ott I found was born in the 1200's in Switzerland, I think that is about the time that they started giving a last name to a family. Population had expanded so that one name was not enough to sort folks out. From your information I expect that your relatives came into the US through the South Carolina ports and that is the line that Mel Ott the New York Giant baseball great "Hall of Famer" came from. By the way, Mel Ott, The Little Giant of Baseball, is a good read, it is a book by Fred Stein, published in 1999 by McFarland and Co. of Jefferson North Carolina and London. ISBN 0-7864-0658-5. Thanks again for your diligence and expert research report. Don Ott -----Original Message----- From: Susan Reynolds via Sent: Sunday, April 3, 2016 3:30 PM To: CherokeeGene Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] Nathaniel Wilber Hello, Don! Looking at the posted family trees on this line, I'm inclined to take them with a huge grain of salt. Some of them say Cherokee Land, Grant, Minnesota. That looks suspiciously like it should read land grant in Minnesota. Grant County MN was formed in 1868 and named for Ulysses S. Grant. The city of Grant in Washington County, MN was also named for U.S. Grant, so it was not formed until after the Civil War, unless it was simply renamed. I can't find a history to confirm or deny. If he was born on a land grant in MN, that would not have been an American grant. MN belonged to the French at the time in question, so you would need to find where their records for the area are archived - if any existed. I would think they might be in Toronto. The French ceded this possession to Spain in 1762. In 1783, the Treaty of Paris that ended the Revolution gave the part of modern MN east of the Mississippi River to the United States. MN reverted to French control and was then part of the Louisiana Purchase in 1803. I haven't looked into what names applied under the Spanish and French, so I can't tell you if they are different or not. If Nathaniel WILBER was Cherokee, it is highly unlikely he was born in MN. In this area you should probably be looking at the Dakota, Ojibwe, or Anishinaabe. An occasional Cherokee MIGHT have drifted into the area, but the Cherokee domain was in the modern states of TN, GA, AL, NC, a little in SC. Kat looks like the English nickname for Katherine, not a Cherokee name (some of those trees show Kat as the Cherokee Chief and this would not have been. The women's honorifics would have been Beloved Woman, possibly War Woman, but not chief in that era). A lot of the mythological Cherokee genealogies give locations with modern locations that did not exist at that time. One case in point is Doublehead's birth place. Doublehead was born around 1744. In accounts of the Yahoo Falls Massacre (that I have proven as fictitious with documentation), his birth place is given as Stearns, McCreary County, KY. Stearns did not exist until 1902 when Justus S. STEARNS founded it as the company town for the Stearns Coal and Lumber Company in an area that was in Wayne County at that time. McCreary County was formed in 1912 from portions of Whitley, Pulaski, and Wayne Counties. It was KY's last county. The Cherokee hunted in what is now KY, but did not actually live there (at least by this time). Cherokee hunters did have long term camps there, sometimes lasting a few years which groups of hunters rotated in and out of, but no permanent towns. While there is an arguable case that Doublehead could have been born there when his parents hunted in KY and stayed in a camp where his mother birthed him away from home, this too is unlikely. Women did not often accompany the hunters, except on occasion to prepare food and perform women's tasks. A pregnant woman would not have accompanied the hunters at all. Theda Perdue, in Cherokee Women: Gender and Culture Change 1700-1835, pages 30-31, states that the Cherokees believed pregnant women to be extremely powerful both naturally and spiritually (what whites understand as powerful medicine!) and while they did not go into seclusion as they normally did monthly, they still limited their activities. They didn't go to ceremonies, visit sick people, observe ball games. Cherokees avoided any paths pregnant women walked on and did not eat anything the prepared. Their presence would have contaminated the hunt. Perdue notes that evidence indicates their men also limited their activities and did not fish, hunt, or even fight during their wives pregnancies. Since Doublehead's father was Tifftoya of Tanassee, also known as Willenawah or Great Eagle,this argues for Tanassee as Doublehead's birth place. In 1720, the Cherokee had not yet converted to centralized government and each town had its own chiefs - Peace or white chief and War or red chief. In 1730, when he took seven representative Cherokee "headmen" to England to meet George II, Alexander CUMMING had declared Moytoy emperor or King of the Cherokees, but this was a European construct that did not accurately depict Cherokee social and civil organization. It was strictly for CUMMING's "diplomatic" purposes. The Cherokees did not coalesce into a centralized form until the late 1780s and early 1790s. Even then, they did not have elected chiefs until 1828, they had chiefs chosen more by acclamation. Nathaniel WILBER could not have been Chief of the Cherokee Nation because Cherokee Nation did not come into existence during his lifetime and the position did not yet exist as far as the Cherokees were concern, regardless of CUMMING's machinations. I don't find anything in the various records I have available, which are many, that show any name close to WILBER that match yours. There was a Nathan P. WILBER that married a Shawnee woman named Sarah H. "Dean" BLUEJACKET in the Dawes Commission Records. They lived in Cherokee Nation and appear on Cherokee by blood card 3312, although she was Shawnee. He was white and born in 1848. There are two Wilber/Wilbur Eastern Cherokee Applications, Lula and Lena Josie, but these are married names and they were also born in the 19th century, not the 18th. Lula was from St. Louis and Lena from Peters, TN. Lena's maiden name was LEDFORD and they have Cherokee ties, but I don't have any details of just how at the moment. The closest name I find is in Jim Hicks's Cherokee Lineages website - Wilburn - http://www.genealogy.com/ftm/h/i/c/James-R-Hicks-VA/BOOK-0001/0021-0033.html#IND70384REF23. In 1788 Sarah Hicks, the daughter of Na-Ye-Hi CONRAD and Nathan HICKS married a man surnamed WILBURN, given name unknown at this time. Sarah was sister to Charles Renatus HICKS and William Abraham HICKS. Charles Renatus was for some years Assistant Principal Chief. In early January 1827 Principal Chief Pathkiller died and Charles R. HICKS rose to the Principal Chief position. Sadly, he died 2 weeks later on 20 January 1827. William Abraham HICKS, was also a chief, but not Principal Chief. He was defeated by John ROSS in the election of 1828, the first under the Cherokee Constitution of 1827. He never recovered from the defeat. Every family story has at least a kernel of truth buried in it somewhere. I suspect the story of Nathaniel Wilber is wrapped up in Sarah HICKS's story. It looks to me like the story MIGHT go this way: Nathaniel WILBER (read this as WILBURN) was born in an unknown location about 1720. Sometime between 1735 and 1745 he married a woman name Kat and had a daughter named Frances Elizabeth about 1745 in Wayne County, TN (this is outside the Cherokee domain) and a son sometime before 1756, when he died in TN. This son then married Sarah HICKS, but there is no record of any children born to them. He was not a chief, however, but brother-in-law to chiefs. ​OR​Unknown given name WILBER (read this as WILBURN) was born in an unknown location about 1720. Sometime between 1735 and 1745 he married a woman name Kat and had a daughter named Frances Elizabeth about 1745 in Wayne County, TN (this is outside the Cherokee domain) and a son sometime before 1756, when he died in TN. This son then married Sarah HICKS, but there is no record of any children born to them. Somewhere along the way, Sarah's father's given name NATHAN became conflated with his son-in-law's father's given name, as did her brother, Charles's position as Principal Chief. ​Of course, the Nathan P. WILBER on Cherokee card 3312 could also be the source of the story. People often see only the cards and misunderstand what they mean. Census card 3312 does not show that Sarah BLUEJACKET was Shawnee. The card also does not indicate that Nathan P. WILBER was originally accepted for enrollment by intermarriage and subsequently struck from the rolls in 1907. This information is only found in the Dawes Application Packet itself. Sadly, many of these stories are wishes rather than facts. BTW, I have OTTs in my line in AL, MS, that connect to my Tynes lines. If you have people in these areas, feel free to contact me off list and I'll be happy to chat about them. Kindest regards, Susan Reynolds On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 9:51 AM, Don Ott via <cherokeegene@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Recent family research found Nathaniel Wilber 1720-1756, “Cherokee > Chief” born Land, Grant, Minnesota. His wife was called Kat. Not finding > much on this line. Any help appreciated. > Don > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > Cherokee genealogy; certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and > sort fact from (fiction). > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > please take non genealogy to Cherokee@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CHEROKEEGENE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message =====*NOTICE THIS*===== Cherokee genealogy; certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). List archive http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene please take non genealogy to Cherokee@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHEROKEEGENE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This message interested me because the family married into my family. I’m not sure who but I do have the info. I believe they married into a Allsbrooks/Scarborough line. (My mom’s cousin) She was the sister to my grandfather and their father was married to a Glass. A name that I saw on a NA list. I wished I’d be more nosy than I was when I was a child., though grandma told me that little pitchers have big ears. I was listening to their talk and they put me outside. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Don Ott via Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 11:10 AM To: Susan Reynolds; cherokeegene@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] Nathaniel Wilber Susan Thank you so much for the diligent efforts you put into the answer to my question. I have been trying to follow much of the information you provided, sorry for the delay in replying. This family was very distantly related to my wife through the Atkinson and Henry lines. I suspect that these folks may have come from the Canadian side of the border and have no idea if he was some sort of a Chief or not. I have helped define the "Benge Trail Of Tears" and get it properly marked. I live on this trail and have always been told that some of my ancestors may have married into that group. I have not been able to document that and DNA does not seem to justify the story. This 1838 march began in Alabama and most of my folks came from Kentucky. As to your comment about Ott relations, I have researched 17 different groups of the Ott family that I have not been able to tie together. Although I have been to Switzerland, Germany and Alsace, records on the 1200, 1300 and 1400 time frame are difficult. The earliest Ott I found was born in the 1200's in Switzerland, I think that is about the time that they started giving a last name to a family. Population had expanded so that one name was not enough to sort folks out. From your information I expect that your relatives came into the US through the South Carolina ports and that is the line that Mel Ott the New York Giant baseball great "Hall of Famer" came from. By the way, Mel Ott, The Little Giant of Baseball, is a good read, it is a book by Fred Stein, published in 1999 by McFarland and Co. of Jefferson North Carolina and London. ISBN 0-7864-0658-5. Thanks again for your diligence and expert research report. Don Ott -----Original Message----- From: Susan Reynolds via Sent: Sunday, April 3, 2016 3:30 PM To: CherokeeGene Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] Nathaniel Wilber Hello, Don! Looking at the posted family trees on this line, I'm inclined to take them with a huge grain of salt. Some of them say Cherokee Land, Grant, Minnesota. That looks suspiciously like it should read land grant in Minnesota. Grant County MN was formed in 1868 and named for Ulysses S. Grant. The city of Grant in Washington County, MN was also named for U.S. Grant, so it was not formed until after the Civil War, unless it was simply renamed. I can't find a history to confirm or deny. If he was born on a land grant in MN, that would not have been an American grant. MN belonged to the French at the time in question, so you would need to find where their records for the area are archived - if any existed. I would think they might be in Toronto. The French ceded this possession to Spain in 1762. In 1783, the Treaty of Paris that ended the Revolution gave the part of modern MN east of the Mississippi River to the United States. MN reverted to French control and was then part of the Louisiana Purchase in 1803. I haven't looked into what names applied under the Spanish and French, so I can't tell you if they are different or not. If Nathaniel WILBER was Cherokee, it is highly unlikely he was born in MN. In this area you should probably be looking at the Dakota, Ojibwe, or Anishinaabe. An occasional Cherokee MIGHT have drifted into the area, but the Cherokee domain was in the modern states of TN, GA, AL, NC, a little in SC. Kat looks like the English nickname for Katherine, not a Cherokee name (some of those trees show Kat as the Cherokee Chief and this would not have been. The women's honorifics would have been Beloved Woman, possibly War Woman, but not chief in that era). A lot of the mythological Cherokee genealogies give locations with modern locations that did not exist at that time. One case in point is Doublehead's birth place. Doublehead was born around 1744. In accounts of the Yahoo Falls Massacre (that I have proven as fictitious with documentation), his birth place is given as Stearns, McCreary County, KY. Stearns did not exist until 1902 when Justus S. STEARNS founded it as the company town for the Stearns Coal and Lumber Company in an area that was in Wayne County at that time. McCreary County was formed in 1912 from portions of Whitley, Pulaski, and Wayne Counties. It was KY's last county. The Cherokee hunted in what is now KY, but did not actually live there (at least by this time). Cherokee hunters did have long term camps there, sometimes lasting a few years which groups of hunters rotated in and out of, but no permanent towns. While there is an arguable case that Doublehead could have been born there when his parents hunted in KY and stayed in a camp where his mother birthed him away from home, this too is unlikely. Women did not often accompany the hunters, except on occasion to prepare food and perform women's tasks. A pregnant woman would not have accompanied the hunters at all. Theda Perdue, in Cherokee Women: Gender and Culture Change 1700-1835, pages 30-31, states that the Cherokees believed pregnant women to be extremely powerful both naturally and spiritually (what whites understand as powerful medicine!) and while they did not go into seclusion as they normally did monthly, they still limited their activities. They didn't go to ceremonies, visit sick people, observe ball games. Cherokees avoided any paths pregnant women walked on and did not eat anything the prepared. Their presence would have contaminated the hunt. Perdue notes that evidence indicates their men also limited their activities and did not fish, hunt, or even fight during their wives pregnancies. Since Doublehead's father was Tifftoya of Tanassee, also known as Willenawah or Great Eagle,this argues for Tanassee as Doublehead's birth place. In 1720, the Cherokee had not yet converted to centralized government and each town had its own chiefs - Peace or white chief and War or red chief. In 1730, when he took seven representative Cherokee "headmen" to England to meet George II, Alexander CUMMING had declared Moytoy emperor or King of the Cherokees, but this was a European construct that did not accurately depict Cherokee social and civil organization. It was strictly for CUMMING's "diplomatic" purposes. The Cherokees did not coalesce into a centralized form until the late 1780s and early 1790s. Even then, they did not have elected chiefs until 1828, they had chiefs chosen more by acclamation. Nathaniel WILBER could not have been Chief of the Cherokee Nation because Cherokee Nation did not come into existence during his lifetime and the position did not yet exist as far as the Cherokees were concern, regardless of CUMMING's machinations. I don't find anything in the various records I have available, which are many, that show any name close to WILBER that match yours. There was a Nathan P. WILBER that married a Shawnee woman named Sarah H. "Dean" BLUEJACKET in the Dawes Commission Records. They lived in Cherokee Nation and appear on Cherokee by blood card 3312, although she was Shawnee. He was white and born in 1848. There are two Wilber/Wilbur Eastern Cherokee Applications, Lula and Lena Josie, but these are married names and they were also born in the 19th century, not the 18th. Lula was from St. Louis and Lena from Peters, TN. Lena's maiden name was LEDFORD and they have Cherokee ties, but I don't have any details of just how at the moment. The closest name I find is in Jim Hicks's Cherokee Lineages website - Wilburn - http://www.genealogy.com/ftm/h/i/c/James-R-Hicks-VA/BOOK-0001/0021-0033.html#IND70384REF23. In 1788 Sarah Hicks, the daughter of Na-Ye-Hi CONRAD and Nathan HICKS married a man surnamed WILBURN, given name unknown at this time. Sarah was sister to Charles Renatus HICKS and William Abraham HICKS. Charles Renatus was for some years Assistant Principal Chief. In early January 1827 Principal Chief Pathkiller died and Charles R. HICKS rose to the Principal Chief position. Sadly, he died 2 weeks later on 20 January 1827. William Abraham HICKS, was also a chief, but not Principal Chief. He was defeated by John ROSS in the election of 1828, the first under the Cherokee Constitution of 1827. He never recovered from the defeat. Every family story has at least a kernel of truth buried in it somewhere. I suspect the story of Nathaniel Wilber is wrapped up in Sarah HICKS's story. It looks to me like the story MIGHT go this way: Nathaniel WILBER (read this as WILBURN) was born in an unknown location about 1720. Sometime between 1735 and 1745 he married a woman name Kat and had a daughter named Frances Elizabeth about 1745 in Wayne County, TN (this is outside the Cherokee domain) and a son sometime before 1756, when he died in TN. This son then married Sarah HICKS, but there is no record of any children born to them. He was not a chief, however, but brother-in-law to chiefs. ​OR​Unknown given name WILBER (read this as WILBURN) was born in an unknown location about 1720. Sometime between 1735 and 1745 he married a woman name Kat and had a daughter named Frances Elizabeth about 1745 in Wayne County, TN (this is outside the Cherokee domain) and a son sometime before 1756, when he died in TN. This son then married Sarah HICKS, but there is no record of any children born to them. Somewhere along the way, Sarah's father's given name NATHAN became conflated with his son-in-law's father's given name, as did her brother, Charles's position as Principal Chief. ​Of course, the Nathan P. WILBER on Cherokee card 3312 could also be the source of the story. People often see only the cards and misunderstand what they mean. Census card 3312 does not show that Sarah BLUEJACKET was Shawnee. The card also does not indicate that Nathan P. WILBER was originally accepted for enrollment by intermarriage and subsequently struck from the rolls in 1907. This information is only found in the Dawes Application Packet itself. Sadly, many of these stories are wishes rather than facts. BTW, I have OTTs in my line in AL, MS, that connect to my Tynes lines. If you have people in these areas, feel free to contact me off list and I'll be happy to chat about them. Kindest regards, Susan Reynolds On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 9:51 AM, Don Ott via <cherokeegene@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Recent family research found Nathaniel Wilber 1720-1756, “Cherokee > Chief” born Land, Grant, Minnesota. His wife was called Kat. Not finding > much on this line. Any help appreciated. > Don > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > Cherokee genealogy; certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and > sort fact from (fiction). > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > please take non genealogy to Cherokee@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CHEROKEEGENE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message =====*NOTICE THIS*===== Cherokee genealogy; certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). List archive http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene please take non genealogy to Cherokee@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHEROKEEGENE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message =====*NOTICE THIS*===== Cherokee genealogy; certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). List archive http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene please take non genealogy to Cherokee@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHEROKEEGENE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus