Moon come up about 9 am last few days. Stays up all night. Was bright enough last night to play baseball. What a ruler. But - the first mention was not the earth day. It was a comparison of Gods Time to our time. not the same thing. -----Original Message----- From: Spiritwalker Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 3:20 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] different topic--OT Well Alli, it also says he made the sun and the moon, one to rule the day, and the other to rule the night, which they still do today. There is no reason to believe, nor any science to prove, that the length of a solar day (aproximately 24 hours) or the length of a year (approx. 365 days & 6 hours) has changed nor ever will change since he created them. So personally, I take it to mean exactly what it says. A day is a day is a day.
The earth days don’t rely on calendar, they rely on how long it takes the planet to go around 1 revolution. Much different than Gods time is not based on planet revolutions. As for The mention of Genesis about a day, look in 2 Peter Cp 3 verse 8 as is; But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. I don’t know how Joyce missed my comment before and came up with the minute idea. Dan -----Original Message----- From: Joyce Gaston Reece Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 2:55 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] different topic--OT My point Alli is that we just don't know how long that day was. He did say, as stated before, that one minute to him was like 1000 years to us. Just my opinion and we all know what those are worth. These are 'days' by God's measurements....not a 24 hour time calendar that wasn't created until thousands of years later. Joyce Gaston Reece Ok......I'm pretty new to studying the Bible.......but ..... unless I have misinterpreted you & Joyce..... all's that says is the Light is called Day & the dark He called Night & its the first day.........but how 'long' was that day back then? =====*NOTICE THIS*===== Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). Rude people will be moderated asap! List archive http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene please take non genealogy to [email protected] Dual admin. Dan and Joyce ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Well, I kinda look at it like this....if God hadn't meant for us to reason....to ask...to analyze...to question....then He wouldn't have given us the ability to do so. But what do I know.......lol Joyce Gaston Reece -----Original Message----- From: Alli :) Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 7:22 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] different topic--OT But this is what man has determined.... so while my way of thinking agrees with what your saying (Sun for day, Moon for night. Light is Day, dark is Night).......doesn't mean our original interpretation is correct...... especially since His minute is a 1,000 yrs to us :0) But yep............ A day is a day :) Alli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Spiritwalker" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] different topic--OT > Well Alli, it also says he made the sun and the moon, one to rule the day, > and the other to rule the night, which they still do today. There is no > reason to believe, nor any science to prove, that the length of a solar > day > (aproximately 24 hours) or the length of a year (approx. 365 days & 6 > hours) > has changed nor ever will change since he created them. So personally, I > take it to mean exactly what it says. A day is a day is a day. > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). Rude people will be moderated asap! List archive http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene please take non genealogy to [email protected] Dual admin. Dan and Joyce ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
24 hours -----Original Message----- From: Alli :) Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 2:36 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] different topic--OT Ok......I'm pretty new to studying the Bible.......but ..... unless I have misinterpreted you & Joyce..... all's that says is the Light is called Day & the dark He called Night & its the first day.........but how 'long' was that day back then? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Spiritwalker" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 3:31 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] DNA-Barb > Love you Joyce, but I'm afraid I must disagree with your statement that > "nowhere in this Bible are we given what a day consists of." No desire to > start an argument, but Genesis chapter 1, verse 3-5 tells exactly what a > day > is and it has never changed. If we are to rely on the Bible, we must take > it all........... =====*NOTICE THIS*===== Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). Rude people will be moderated asap! List archive http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene please take non genealogy to [email protected] Dual admin. Dan and Joyce ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
that was for the earth . We also were comparing Gods days to ours, kinda like dogs and people are different. -----Original Message----- From: Spiritwalker Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 2:31 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] DNA-Barb Love you Joyce, but I'm afraid I must disagree with your statement that "nowhere in this Bible are we given what a day consists of." No desire to start an argument, but Genesis chapter 1, verse 3-5 tells exactly what a day is and it has never changed. If we are to rely on the Bible, we must take it all........... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce Gaston Reece" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 12:43 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] DNA-Barb > In Genesis we are taught that God created the heavens and the earth in > seven > days.....again an English term. Now, nowhere in this Bible are we given > what a 'day' consists of a few thousand years before Christ. The > Gregorian > calendar wasn't invented until circa 1500 AD so just how do we know how > long > a 'day' was. Time is relevant. It is something we humans use to measure > the passing of our lives. BUT that measurement didn't exist during the > birth of heaven and earth. So just how do we know that these SEVEN days > (which are a loosely translated period of time) didn't cover a period of > thousands to millions of years???? Could we not say it took seven > miracles > to form Heaven and Earth over an indefinate period of time?? > > > > Joyce Gaston Reece > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do > genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > please take non genealogy to [email protected] > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). Rude people will be moderated asap! List archive http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene please take non genealogy to [email protected] Dual admin. Dan and Joyce ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
It is my understanding (& I may be wrong) that an Indian child had more then 1 name (indian) as they grew up....they were named at birth by an Uncle (I think, I know its on the mom's side), then as they enter each stage.....like hit puberty they "earn" another, etc. but as i said.....I may be wrong & I can't recall who shared this & it was years ago All Indians were being hunted down ----- Original Message ----- From: "BARBARA GORDON-LANTTO" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] Cherokee Heritage > Native names given at Birth never change. But a Cherokee may have several > "English" names at various time slots. At puberty a boy ususally lived > with an Uncle, brother to the mother or clan mother's, and may take that > last name as part of the household.. It was for the boy's traditional > warrior training. The idea was to confuse the government. > > Cherokee and other tribes were being hunted down like a poor animal.(1700- > 1800's) > > BARB
Exactly :) LOL Alli :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce Gaston Reece" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] different topic--OT > Well, I kinda look at it like this....if God hadn't meant for us to > reason....to ask...to analyze...to question....then He wouldn't have given > us the ability to do so. But what do I know.......lol > > > > Joyce Gaston Reece
What about others doing the same names? I found 22 trees doing my exact genealogy and I do not know most of them are related or not. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 1:10 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] lookups? None of my trees are made public on Ancestry. Reason being - none of the information has been confirmed and I don't want to be responsible for inaccurate information spreading further.
WE all know that the King James Bible was changed. When the King James Bible changed to the Revised addition, it lost 64,000 words. But truth is still there. The Older Cherokee tell how old they are. Your numbers ring my bell. The Cherokee people are more than ancient. And they tell about building the pyramids. And the secret society that guards the pyramids.And they tell of Atlantis and the " milky way". Isn't the Torah written in ancient Hebrew?(first books of the Old Testament) DNA constantly changes just like we do. The DNA study that fascinates me is the 200 ancient Basque-man study. Anthropologists say the BASQUE language is Earth's first original language. The Basque live in the mountains between France and Spain.. or Idaho and Nevada. BARB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dj M" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] DNA-Barb > Gods days are 1000 years. Per-se' > > English was not used in the original text, it was used after Cuneiform, > Sumerian, Greek,Hebrew and such. The King James Bible was reviewed for > relevance to the Bishops Bible much older than KJ. > > DNA will never produce a copy of Adam or Eves samples since we have no > evidence of where they might be. > > No one knows the race of Adam and eve except they were done from earth as > God said for Adam and rib as God said for Eve. We will call them Earth > People ( The People ) as mentioned by elders. NA people that migrated, had > the knowledge of the old times ( Bible ) before white man or missionaries > ever even thought to teach them, only it was not known that the many > stories > of the old ones were from the real times the bible was taken from. Its > said > those people were from Ethiopia. So Said. Its also said the DNA research > had > decided its entirely possible they ( Adam and Eve ) were black in color > and > [we] the whites all have a marker of this dna which says we were once > black. > Now if I was to say its true, I would refer you to Science magazine on the > web and National Geographic for people who do this for a living and find > accurate resources to believe they might have half a clue about being > right. > > Its mentioned in the Bible some people lived nearly 1000 years. > We know from evidence from the Babylon and Sumerian and dead sea scrolls > time is mentioned many times. > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joyce Gaston Reece > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 10:43 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] DNA-Barb > > Since you've opened up 'chat', Dan let me introduce some things that are > pure speculation ......... perhaps. > > The Bible introduces us to Adam and Eve....English names for the first man > and woman of humanity. DNA teaches us that it will, eventually, lead us > all > back to ONE point of origin. > > We do not know the real references to time per God. Only that its said to > be > his day is 1000 years to us. > > As for other relevance's to explain. > As the people waited at the mt, God descended in fire and smoke and the > mount shook. > Today we might think ( rocket ) of sorts, and why not? A great deal of > stories of past peoples wrote about it. > Carved things in stone, painted things in Buda caves and older writings > like Ezekiel and the 4 wheels. > > I would say, believing all this does take a miracle but since the writing > of > the Bible was inspired by God, I would not demeanor any of it. > Dan > _==_ > In Genesis we are taught that God created the heavens and the earth in > seven > days.....again an English term. Now, nowhere in this Bible are we given > what a 'day' consists of a few thousand years before Christ. The > Gregorian > calendar wasn't invented until circa 1500 AD so just how do we know how > long > a 'day' was. Time is relevant. It is something we humans use to measure > the passing of our lives. BUT that measurement didn't exist during the > birth of heaven and earth. So just how do we know that these SEVEN days > (which are a loosely translated period of time) didn't cover a period of > thousands to millions of years???? Could we not say it took seven > miracles > to form Heaven and Earth over an indefinate period of time?? > > > > Joyce Gaston Reece > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do > genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > please take non genealogy to [email protected] > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do > genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > please take non genealogy to [email protected] > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >
Show me?! Where? -----Original Message----- From: Joyce Gaston Reece Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 1:00 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] DNA-Barb Well, He said that one minute to him was like a thousand years to us. Joyce Gaston Reece Gods days are 1000 years. Per-se' =====*NOTICE THIS*===== Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). Rude people will be moderated asap! List archive http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene please take non genealogy to [email protected] Dual admin. Dan and Joyce ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Well, don’t forget those blue eyed blond Vikings ya know. I always leave the ultimate finds to the professionals and when I find links I tell folks. I am not a scientist, I am one of you. Pretty simple, seeker; learner. -----Original Message----- From: Alli :) Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 12:55 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] Leavens in Kentucky, born 1828 awe so it wasn't dan who made the mistake, it was another's assumption & misunderstanding of lumping many into one :) imagine that Thanks for clarifying Susan......I was wondering how the Chinese got brought into this, now it makes a bit of sense :) Alli
Chat always brings out some interesting data. l;)) -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 12:52 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [CherokeeGene] SUSAN & help with my names I so enjoyed reading your story on helping others. Without being able to confirm anything for myself, I have helped others with their searches with only one being able to confirm t their native roots. His grandmother was Creek. It was a pleasure to have helped him. Recently, I also have helped trace two of my cousins' biological families. Their Mother passed and took their paternal biological info to her grave. I know this is off of subject, so thank you Dan for opening up a 4-day chat. If anyone could help me with my names, I'd be so grateful. In a message dated 12/28/2012 3:12:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Because of Cherokee Gene I have learned a very great deal not only about Cherokee genealogy but a part of American history I never, ever learned about. I lived in Oklahoma until 7 years ago and was able to go to Tahlequah several times a year, met David Hampton and the genealogists at the Cherokee Heritage Center, chatted with Jack Baker and Bob Blankenship and his very charismatic son who owns One Feather Books in Tahlequah. They were all of help to me as I researched beginning in 1999 for a friend who had been given one tiny piece of bad information that totally threw off her research for years. The more I researched her family, the more I fell in love with the Cherokee people. We are said to have Cherokee blood, but I know from looking at the records the chances are slim to none I will ever prove that - right places, right times, but there are no government records for the time and no family Bibles or other family records. But it's not necessary. I can help others prove theirs. I have been able to help that original friend, who was another Joyce, worked with Alli and Debbie and Joyce (on a number of projects), solved a 150 year-old mystery and the list goes on forever. I think the most satisfying was helping my cousin's son-in-law discover his Cherokee roots and seeing David fall in love with his Cherokee heritage. I still haven't gotten him the Rider applications in his line, just the Thompsons, but watching him develop research skills and navigate Cherokee records has been a joy. He was reared in foster homes, so he didn't grow up with the cousins and aunts and uncles who knew part of the story (not all of it though, and David has been able to teach THEM!),only learning of his heritage in the past year. And in the process, I learned why my great grandfather, Thomas Jefferson Wood packed up 8 of his children 3 weeks after his first wife, Mary Jane "Janie" Love died, and went to Choctaw Nation, Indian Territory, when on the surface there appeared to be absolutely no reason for him to leave his siblings and older children behind in Nevada County, Arkansas. That piece of information came from researching the Dawes application for a mixed blood freedman named Moses Crittenden and his sister's application which placed them in Choctaw Nation during the Civil War where, lo and behold, was a Chickasaw Love family in which the wife was the product of a Chickasaw/Cherokee lineage from around Muscle Shoals, AL, the household of Robert Love. I had long thought Janie's grandfather was the son of Thomas Love, the Tory who would not fight on either side in the Revolution and sought sanctuary in the old Chickasaw Nation, where he married a Chickasaw girl and had a large family with her. Their son, Thomas Jr is last seen in Chickasaw records at age 18 , then a Thomas Love/Lauve appears from nowhere in Arkansas, not far from Choctaw Nation. A portrait of Thomas and Janie Wood shows him obviously white and her obviously copper skinned. It was often found among the Cherokee (and the Chickasaw) that the husband took his offspring to his mother-in-law or his dead wife's oldest brother (or other male relative) to be raised. I believe Thomas went to that specific part of Choctaw Nation (Robert Love was the Postmaster of the town he went to) to find Janie's relatives and some help with raising his 8 youngest children. It couldn't have been easy to work all day and have to worry about how they were. I never would have discovered that had Lydia Quinton and Elijah and Sydney Crittenden Phillips not gone down to Choctaw Nation for safety's sake, taking their extended families and slaves with them. Talk about serendipity! Susan =====*NOTICE THIS*===== Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). Rude people will be moderated asap! List archive http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene please take non genealogy to [email protected] Dual admin. Dan and Joyce ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message =====*NOTICE THIS*===== Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). Rude people will be moderated asap! List archive http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene please take non genealogy to [email protected] Dual admin. Dan and Joyce ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
That was not aimed at you. But if you insist lol ;l) -----Original Message----- From: Alli :) Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 12:50 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] McMinnville which is why i stay quiet :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dj M" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 11:41 AM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] McMinnville >I always told the kids, until they know the facts. > Don’t speak. > My dad said, until one opens their mouth, others wont know how dumb they > are. > > Dan > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). Rude people will be moderated asap! List archive http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene please take non genealogy to [email protected] Dual admin. Dan and Joyce ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
The Bernard Hughes I am researching - his info (approximate) follows: Bernard Hughes b. abt 1700 he was an Indian Trader m. Sallie Socoonie(sp?) Cherokee Lady Children: James b. abt. 1742, m. Margaret (lnu) (my line) John b. abt 1743 Sarah b. abt 1744 Please note, all I have to go on for Sally (m. Bernard) is info I got off of Ancestry. I will post below the info I have on her: Sallie Woman of Ani'ga'tag'wi Moytoy b. 1716-1726 daughter of: Moytoy 1640-1741 (?) - Son of Amatoy Moytoy & Quatsy of Tellico & Woman of Deer Clan 1686-1730 (I have also seen Wolf Clan) ********** This is another line going back to Moytoy The above persons were born in Cherokee Nation East. In a message dated 12/28/2012 6:03:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I'm sure Diane won't mind if I post here From: "Diane S" <[email protected]> Subject: [HEMBREE] Daniel Bernard Hughes Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 05:10:30 -0400 References: <[email protected]> Hi Joyce - Found something that others on this list might like to see... and Larry too! Heads up! MEMORIES of LT HENRY TIMBERLAKE The Story of A Soldier, Adventurer and Emissary to the Cherokees 1756 - 1765 Edited by Duane H. King According to these memoires, Lt. Timberlake met a white woman named 'Mary Hughes' who said she had been taken about 12 mos. ago and that they were treated cruelly with no clothes for the harsh winter. The Lt. gave her some blankets and shirts that he had brought with him. Late in the book he says that Mary Hughes was the widow of Bernard Hughes, trader at Stepcoe. I am thinking this is perhaps Daniel Bernard Jr. since according to other histories it says that Mary Ward was married to Bernard Hughes before marrying Ward or was this the same woman? Was Mary Ward known to be full Cherokee? I have just assumed that all of the Hughes men were of mixed blood except Daniel Bernard Hughes, Sr. and now it appears my 'assumptions' were wrong... or was Sr.'s wife Cherokee, and then Jr. married this Mary? As you know I have no dates for any of them except for Charles Hughes' probable date of death as 1792 or 1806 - doesn't help much when tryiing to piece together this crazy quilt! Ironically, I also believe that Mary Moore Ayres was married first to another of my ancestors on my father's side... first, I always heard this 'story', and although far more romantic than real, my grandmother did not pass on 'tales' but so far I have verified her 'tales' so take this a bit more to heart that usual. One of my ancestors is a Thomas Ayres (Ayers), Rev. War soldier, although a bit elderly... d. Columbia County, Georgia, and I believe his father was Lt. Thomas Ayres who was Oglethorpe's liason to the Cherokee, thus he would require a translator... Mary Moore WAS married to Thomas Ayres who died young.. leaving everything to his brother, John, who lived in Charleston. Did he do this because a son from a marriage to Mary would not be allowed to inherit ever since he would be of mixed blood? Was this son raised by his brother, or left with the tribe when Mary married John Amory? Just too many coincidences to not have a bit of truth to it... and my grandmother told my brother that we were related to Chief Joseph Vann when she took him to see his home in Georgia. Do you think I am just barking up the wrong tree, or is this worth further research? See more notes below on Hughes men... Thanks Diane S In 1751, the Lower Cherokee (SC) began attacking the English traders. Bernard Hughes Sr. was reportedly killed in April 1751. (Turns out he escaped and left his post at Stecoe on the Tuskasegee River in NC (by order of Chief Raven) and retired to Ninety Six.) [SC Commons Journal of 7 May 1752] Daniel Murphy (a son-in-law of Hughes?) was killed farther north. The Indians attacked Ninety-Six and John Vann fled with his wife and children to Augusta, GA in May 1751. [SC Commons Journal of 13 May 1751] When he returned to Ninety Six he operated a trading post with Bernard Hughes. In 1760, John Downing and Bernard Hughes fled the Cherokee and stayed at John Vann's house on the Broad River in GA. (1) Rachel HUGHES b abt 1790 Valley Towns, Chota-Chistatoa d abt 1851 dau of ELIZABETH* "Betsy" WARD and Daniel Barnard Hughes Nancy WARD Tsistuna-Gis-Ke b c1738 in Chota City of Refuge d.15 Aug 1815, Franklin County, Georgia at her brother's home She was buried near Benton, Polk Co, Tennessee in War Woman or Woman Killer Ford, Benton, Amovey District, Polk Co., Tennessee; buried atop a hill south of Benton, Tennessee- Nancy Ward Memorial, Polk County, Tennessee [ a.k.a. Nanye-hi of the Wolf Clan) "the Ghi-Ga-U", Beloved Woman of the Cherokees , Cherokee, Beloved War Woman, Beloved Woman, Ghighau Rose and Tsistuna-gis-ke (wildrose) ] 3/4th Shawnee-Cherokee -- She married first a14y (bfr 1752) to 32 year old (1) Tsu-la Red Fox Chutlow KINGFISHER (of the Deer Clan) b. c1720/32 Cherokee Nation East, Tennessee d. ** <http://www.infomagic.net/~nmcarter/dat27.htm>; was shot and killed in a battle with the Creek Indians 1755, Caton, Georgia. She filled his place in the battle and picked up her dead husband's musket and led the Cherokee to victory. Because of this, she was honored with the highest ranking any Cherokee woman could attain, Ghighuaa.became The Ghi-ga-u (2) Bryant Ward abt 1759 - Irish (or Scots-Irish) located in the Cherokee country as a trader b 1730 Amtrim Co, Ireland, d 15 Aug 1815 Franklin Co, Georgia ** <http://www.infomagic.net/~nmcarter/dat27.htm>; ** <http://www.rootsweb.com/~scsparta/spb_scot.htm>; --- Bryant was a fur trader, and was from South Carolina - he returned to his family there after he and Nancy had Elizabeth. She was described even after she was an old woman as a person of remarkable beauty, poise "with a queenly and commanding presence." Nancy's life stood for peace but she always warned her people of many bad things to come. She became the first woman to ever talk at a peace treaty with the white man. She was bestowed with the title of Ghigua - Beloved Woman of the Cherokee - and thereby became Head of the Council of Women and held a voting seat in the Council of Chiefs. The Ghigua was given the responsibility of prisoners and would decide their fate. She later married Bryant Ward, a white trader. Nancy Ward was a respected woman among the Cherokees and the white settlers. She was an outspoken supporter of peace, and participated in several treaty negotiations and even spoke at the Treaty of Hopewell in 1785 where she spoke about her hopes for a continued peace. But the numerous treaties that agreed to honor Cherokee land rights were broken, and in 1819 the Hiwassee Purchases forced Nancy to abandon her home in Chota and settle further south on the Ocoee River. She lived (1738-1822). --- Her second husband was Bryant Ward, ---Ward had brought his son, John, whose deceased mother was a White woman, and John subsequently married Catherine "Katie" McDaniel <http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/w/h/e/Kerry-A-Wheeler/GENE7-0013 .html>;, dau of Grasshopper -Granny Hopper b abt 1730 & William David, Sr. McDaniel. Bryant Ward had one daughter; Elizabeth, by The Ghi-ga-u (Beloved Woman of the Cherokees); whose first husband was Brigadier General Joseph Martin and her second husband was ____ Hughes, a trader. Bryan Ward lived only a few years after his marriage to The Ghi-ga-u." Page 468. Dr. Emmett Starr ** <http://www.genealogy.com/users/w/a/r/Larry-Ward/>; ** <http://hometown.aol.com/rarebk/starr.html>; ** <http://www.galegroup.com/free_resources/whm/bio/ward_n.htm>; ** <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~prsjr/na/people/cherokee/1st-famil ies.htm>; ---"General Joseph Martin, from Virginia, was appointed Indian Agent to the Cherokees. Having much in common with Bryant Ward, they became close friends. On one of his trips into Upper South Carolina he met Nancy [Ward]and [her daughter]Elizabeth[Ward]. He was entranced by the beauty of this daughter of his friend, Bryant Ward, and asked for and was granted her hand in marriage. He and his bride bought land adjacent to Bryant when they settled on the west branch of the Toogaloo River in an area that later became old Franlkin County in northeast Georgia." - Nancy Ward, Beautiful Woman of Two Worlds by Robert G. Adams, Hampton House Printers, Chattanooga, Tennessee, 1979, page 93-94. ** <http://www.geocities.com/genjosmartin/Nanyehe.html>; *---* <http://www.geocities.com/genjosmartin/Nanyehe1.htmlml>; ELIZABETH* "Betsy" WARD b. September 18, 1757 ** <http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/w/h/e/Kerry-A-Wheeler/GENE7-0016 .html>; in Chota, Cherokee Nation East,(now TN) on the Little Tenn. River died Est. 1783-1849 in Moss, Clay, TN. md . Brigadier General Joseph Martin II [ ** <http://www.rootsweb.com/~tnpolk2/martin.htm>; During peace talks (July 1777) Captain Martin meets Betsy-- They marry.] in Cherokee Nation East, TN , [2 Ch.] (son of Joseph MARTIN Sr. and Susannah CHILES) b. 18 Sept 1740 in Charlottesville/Martinsville, Albemarle, VA. d.18 Dec 1808 in Leatherwood Martinsville, Henry Co., VA. buried in "Belmont," Henry Co, VA his estate on Leatherwood, of 1210 acres, purchased in 1796 of Benjamin Harrison, Jr., of Berkley (2) Daniel Barnard Hughes in 1786 in,Cherokee Nation East (now TN) b 1750 - 1759 in TN, d abt 1789-1841 3 John HUGHES b abt 1777, Valley Towns, Chota-Chistatoa ** <http://moytoy.tbhnet.net/html/d0000/g0000000.html>; 4 Nancy HUGHES b abt 1778, Valley Towns, Chota-Chistatoa d in Ahmacolola River, Lumpkin, Georgia md (1) James Crittenden son of Charles Crittenden and Nancy Downing (2) Young Dragging Canoe --View children line below under Young Dragging Canoe and Nancy Hughes section 1 William Crittenden b Georgia, married (1) ___ (2) Malinda House 1827 b 1810 in Cherokee, Swain, NC (3) Louisa CROSS 1843 b 1810 ** <http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:3289264&id=I38736>; 1 Moses Crittenden b: 10 May 1825 in Eastern Cherokee Nation, Georgia, d 27 Jan1899 Diamond Grove, Ok married Edith Quinton 1 Clara "Clary" Crittenden had a daughter with Kinney Lauderville Winton 1 Lydia Crittenden married John Jasper Coughran 1 Clara Bessie Coughran 1 1 Bradley Cobb ** <http://genforum.genealogy.com/cgi-bin/pageload.cgi?Edith,CRITTENDEN::winton ::471.html>; Nancy Hughes 1809 b abt 1775 Valley Towns, Chota-Chistatoa [she was also to married James Crittenden b 1770 GA -- They had Lydia Crittenden b 1804 1804 in Cherokee Nation East, Georgia] --- see this line under Nancy Hughes dau of Elizabeth Ward that was married to Daniel Hughes and Brigadier General Joseph Martin ** <http://genforum.genealogy.com/cgi-bin/pageload.cgi?Holloway::tucker::8386.h tml>; --- Dragging Canoe (the younger; Cherokee chief), 11:314 is noted in The Papers of George Washington --- Dragging Canoe is shown Mustered in 25Oct1861 - Muster roll at Fort Gibson , I.N. 5 Nov1861 1st Cherokee Mounted Riflemen <http://www.couchgenweb.com/civilwar/E1stCher.html>; ** <http://gwpapers.virginia.edu/index/presidential/list.html>; --- Point Pleasant 1774, ---raiding KY-OH-VA 1777 with father, ---British Army-Revolution, Cheeseekau & Bob Benge 1777, British Army-Revolution, Capt. James Foster Co U.S. Army-Creek War --- Canada and Native People"Our Nation was alone and surrounded. We were forced to leave our towns-- and now we live in the grass as you see us. But we are not yet conquered."-- Tsiyu Gansini, 1779** <http://www.interlog.com/~gilgames/atnattod.htm>; ---"....Finally the whole country, which the Cherokees and their fathers have so occupied, will be demanded, and the remnants of the Ani Yunwiya, the "Real People", once so great and formidable, will be compelled to seek refuge in some distant wilderness.. Should we not therefore run all risks and incur all consequences, rather than submit to further laceration of our country? Such treaties may be all right for men who are too old to hunt or fight. As for me I have my young warriors about me. We will have our lands. __ Tsiyu Gansini (Dragging Canoe), Cherokee ***Dr. Emmett Starr references : Canoe (3) pgs 336, 341, 381 : Consene (2) pgs 329, 336 ** <http://hometown.aol.com/rarebk/cherokee.html>; ** Joyce Gaston Reece -----Original Message----- From: Wanda Pezzaglia Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 5:57 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [CherokeeGene] Daniel Bernard Hughes/Hembree site Went to the Hembree site that Joyce mentions. Archive Message on May 2010 is great. She gives a length discussion regarding Daniel Bernard Hughes. Highly recommend reading it. Went to the movies and checked the messages after coming home--what a surprise. wanda =====*NOTICE THIS*===== Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). Rude people will be moderated asap! List archive http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene please take non genealogy to [email protected] Dual admin. Dan and Joyce ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message =====*NOTICE THIS*===== Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). Rude people will be moderated asap! List archive http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene please take non genealogy to [email protected] Dual admin. Dan and Joyce ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
I'm sure Diane won't mind if I post here From: "Diane S" <[email protected]> Subject: [HEMBREE] Daniel Bernard Hughes Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 05:10:30 -0400 References: <[email protected]> Hi Joyce - Found something that others on this list might like to see... and Larry too! Heads up! MEMORIES of LT HENRY TIMBERLAKE The Story of A Soldier, Adventurer and Emissary to the Cherokees 1756 - 1765 Edited by Duane H. King According to these memoires, Lt. Timberlake met a white woman named 'Mary Hughes' who said she had been taken about 12 mos. ago and that they were treated cruelly with no clothes for the harsh winter. The Lt. gave her some blankets and shirts that he had brought with him. Late in the book he says that Mary Hughes was the widow of Bernard Hughes, trader at Stepcoe. I am thinking this is perhaps Daniel Bernard Jr. since according to other histories it says that Mary Ward was married to Bernard Hughes before marrying Ward or was this the same woman? Was Mary Ward known to be full Cherokee? I have just assumed that all of the Hughes men were of mixed blood except Daniel Bernard Hughes, Sr. and now it appears my 'assumptions' were wrong... or was Sr.'s wife Cherokee, and then Jr. married this Mary? As you know I have no dates for any of them except for Charles Hughes' probable date of death as 1792 or 1806 - doesn't help much when tryiing to piece together this crazy quilt! Ironically, I also believe that Mary Moore Ayres was married first to another of my ancestors on my father's side... first, I always heard this 'story', and although far more romantic than real, my grandmother did not pass on 'tales' but so far I have verified her 'tales' so take this a bit more to heart that usual. One of my ancestors is a Thomas Ayres (Ayers), Rev. War soldier, although a bit elderly... d. Columbia County, Georgia, and I believe his father was Lt. Thomas Ayres who was Oglethorpe's liason to the Cherokee, thus he would require a translator... Mary Moore WAS married to Thomas Ayres who died young.. leaving everything to his brother, John, who lived in Charleston. Did he do this because a son from a marriage to Mary would not be allowed to inherit ever since he would be of mixed blood? Was this son raised by his brother, or left with the tribe when Mary married John Amory? Just too many coincidences to not have a bit of truth to it... and my grandmother told my brother that we were related to Chief Joseph Vann when she took him to see his home in Georgia. Do you think I am just barking up the wrong tree, or is this worth further research? See more notes below on Hughes men... Thanks Diane S In 1751, the Lower Cherokee (SC) began attacking the English traders. Bernard Hughes Sr. was reportedly killed in April 1751. (Turns out he escaped and left his post at Stecoe on the Tuskasegee River in NC (by order of Chief Raven) and retired to Ninety Six.) [SC Commons Journal of 7 May 1752] Daniel Murphy (a son-in-law of Hughes?) was killed farther north. The Indians attacked Ninety-Six and John Vann fled with his wife and children to Augusta, GA in May 1751. [SC Commons Journal of 13 May 1751] When he returned to Ninety Six he operated a trading post with Bernard Hughes. In 1760, John Downing and Bernard Hughes fled the Cherokee and stayed at John Vann's house on the Broad River in GA. (1) Rachel HUGHES b abt 1790 Valley Towns, Chota-Chistatoa d abt 1851 dau of ELIZABETH* "Betsy" WARD and Daniel Barnard Hughes Nancy WARD Tsistuna-Gis-Ke b c1738 in Chota City of Refuge d.15 Aug 1815, Franklin County, Georgia at her brother's home She was buried near Benton, Polk Co, Tennessee in War Woman or Woman Killer Ford, Benton, Amovey District, Polk Co., Tennessee; buried atop a hill south of Benton, Tennessee- Nancy Ward Memorial, Polk County, Tennessee [ a.k.a. Nanye-hi of the Wolf Clan) "the Ghi-Ga-U", Beloved Woman of the Cherokees , Cherokee, Beloved War Woman, Beloved Woman, Ghighau Rose and Tsistuna-gis-ke (wildrose) ] 3/4th Shawnee-Cherokee -- She married first a14y (bfr 1752) to 32 year old (1) Tsu-la Red Fox Chutlow KINGFISHER (of the Deer Clan) b. c1720/32 Cherokee Nation East, Tennessee d. ** <http://www.infomagic.net/~nmcarter/dat27.htm>; was shot and killed in a battle with the Creek Indians 1755, Caton, Georgia. She filled his place in the battle and picked up her dead husband's musket and led the Cherokee to victory. Because of this, she was honored with the highest ranking any Cherokee woman could attain, Ghighuaa.became The Ghi-ga-u (2) Bryant Ward abt 1759 - Irish (or Scots-Irish) located in the Cherokee country as a trader b 1730 Amtrim Co, Ireland, d 15 Aug 1815 Franklin Co, Georgia ** <http://www.infomagic.net/~nmcarter/dat27.htm>; ** <http://www.rootsweb.com/~scsparta/spb_scot.htm>; --- Bryant was a fur trader, and was from South Carolina - he returned to his family there after he and Nancy had Elizabeth. She was described even after she was an old woman as a person of remarkable beauty, poise "with a queenly and commanding presence." Nancy's life stood for peace but she always warned her people of many bad things to come. She became the first woman to ever talk at a peace treaty with the white man. She was bestowed with the title of Ghigua - Beloved Woman of the Cherokee - and thereby became Head of the Council of Women and held a voting seat in the Council of Chiefs. The Ghigua was given the responsibility of prisoners and would decide their fate. She later married Bryant Ward, a white trader. Nancy Ward was a respected woman among the Cherokees and the white settlers. She was an outspoken supporter of peace, and participated in several treaty negotiations and even spoke at the Treaty of Hopewell in 1785 where she spoke about her hopes for a continued peace. But the numerous treaties that agreed to honor Cherokee land rights were broken, and in 1819 the Hiwassee Purchases forced Nancy to abandon her home in Chota and settle further south on the Ocoee River. She lived (1738-1822). --- Her second husband was Bryant Ward, ---Ward had brought his son, John, whose deceased mother was a White woman, and John subsequently married Catherine "Katie" McDaniel <http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/w/h/e/Kerry-A-Wheeler/GENE7-0013.html>;, dau of Grasshopper -Granny Hopper b abt 1730 & William David, Sr. McDaniel. Bryant Ward had one daughter; Elizabeth, by The Ghi-ga-u (Beloved Woman of the Cherokees); whose first husband was Brigadier General Joseph Martin and her second husband was ____ Hughes, a trader. Bryan Ward lived only a few years after his marriage to The Ghi-ga-u." Page 468. Dr. Emmett Starr ** <http://www.genealogy.com/users/w/a/r/Larry-Ward/>; ** <http://hometown.aol.com/rarebk/starr.html>; ** <http://www.galegroup.com/free_resources/whm/bio/ward_n.htm>; ** <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~prsjr/na/people/cherokee/1st-families.htm>; ---"General Joseph Martin, from Virginia, was appointed Indian Agent to the Cherokees. Having much in common with Bryant Ward, they became close friends. On one of his trips into Upper South Carolina he met Nancy [Ward]and [her daughter]Elizabeth[Ward]. He was entranced by the beauty of this daughter of his friend, Bryant Ward, and asked for and was granted her hand in marriage. He and his bride bought land adjacent to Bryant when they settled on the west branch of the Toogaloo River in an area that later became old Franlkin County in northeast Georgia." - Nancy Ward, Beautiful Woman of Two Worlds by Robert G. Adams, Hampton House Printers, Chattanooga, Tennessee, 1979, page 93-94. ** <http://www.geocities.com/genjosmartin/Nanyehe.html>; *---* <http://www.geocities.com/genjosmartin/Nanyehe1.htmlml>; ELIZABETH* "Betsy" WARD b. September 18, 1757 ** <http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/w/h/e/Kerry-A-Wheeler/GENE7-0016.html>; in Chota, Cherokee Nation East,(now TN) on the Little Tenn. River died Est. 1783-1849 in Moss, Clay, TN. md . Brigadier General Joseph Martin II [ ** <http://www.rootsweb.com/~tnpolk2/martin.htm>; During peace talks (July 1777) Captain Martin meets Betsy-- They marry.] in Cherokee Nation East, TN , [2 Ch.] (son of Joseph MARTIN Sr. and Susannah CHILES) b. 18 Sept 1740 in Charlottesville/Martinsville, Albemarle, VA. d.18 Dec 1808 in Leatherwood Martinsville, Henry Co., VA. buried in "Belmont," Henry Co, VA his estate on Leatherwood, of 1210 acres, purchased in 1796 of Benjamin Harrison, Jr., of Berkley (2) Daniel Barnard Hughes in 1786 in,Cherokee Nation East (now TN) b 1750 - 1759 in TN, d abt 1789-1841 3 John HUGHES b abt 1777, Valley Towns, Chota-Chistatoa ** <http://moytoy.tbhnet.net/html/d0000/g0000000.html>; 4 Nancy HUGHES b abt 1778, Valley Towns, Chota-Chistatoa d in Ahmacolola River, Lumpkin, Georgia md (1) James Crittenden son of Charles Crittenden and Nancy Downing (2) Young Dragging Canoe --View children line below under Young Dragging Canoe and Nancy Hughes section 1 William Crittenden b Georgia, married (1) ___ (2) Malinda House 1827 b 1810 in Cherokee, Swain, NC (3) Louisa CROSS 1843 b 1810 ** <http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:3289264&id=I38736>; 1 Moses Crittenden b: 10 May 1825 in Eastern Cherokee Nation, Georgia, d 27 Jan1899 Diamond Grove, Ok married Edith Quinton 1 Clara "Clary" Crittenden had a daughter with Kinney Lauderville Winton 1 Lydia Crittenden married John Jasper Coughran 1 Clara Bessie Coughran 1 1 Bradley Cobb ** <http://genforum.genealogy.com/cgi-bin/pageload.cgi?Edith,CRITTENDEN::winton::471.html>; Nancy Hughes 1809 b abt 1775 Valley Towns, Chota-Chistatoa [she was also to married James Crittenden b 1770 GA -- They had Lydia Crittenden b 1804 1804 in Cherokee Nation East, Georgia] --- see this line under Nancy Hughes dau of Elizabeth Ward that was married to Daniel Hughes and Brigadier General Joseph Martin ** <http://genforum.genealogy.com/cgi-bin/pageload.cgi?Holloway::tucker::8386.html>; --- Dragging Canoe (the younger; Cherokee chief), 11:314 is noted in The Papers of George Washington --- Dragging Canoe is shown Mustered in 25Oct1861 - Muster roll at Fort Gibson , I.N. 5 Nov1861 1st Cherokee Mounted Riflemen <http://www.couchgenweb.com/civilwar/E1stCher.html>; ** <http://gwpapers.virginia.edu/index/presidential/list.html>; --- Point Pleasant 1774, ---raiding KY-OH-VA 1777 with father, ---British Army-Revolution, Cheeseekau & Bob Benge 1777, British Army-Revolution, Capt. James Foster Co U.S. Army-Creek War --- Canada and Native People"Our Nation was alone and surrounded. We were forced to leave our towns-- and now we live in the grass as you see us. But we are not yet conquered."-- Tsiyu Gansini, 1779** <http://www.interlog.com/~gilgames/atnattod.htm>; ---"....Finally the whole country, which the Cherokees and their fathers have so occupied, will be demanded, and the remnants of the Ani Yunwiya, the "Real People", once so great and formidable, will be compelled to seek refuge in some distant wilderness.. Should we not therefore run all risks and incur all consequences, rather than submit to further laceration of our country? Such treaties may be all right for men who are too old to hunt or fight. As for me I have my young warriors about me. We will have our lands. __ Tsiyu Gansini (Dragging Canoe), Cherokee ***Dr. Emmett Starr references : Canoe (3) pgs 336, 341, 381 : Consene (2) pgs 329, 336 ** <http://hometown.aol.com/rarebk/cherokee.html>; ** Joyce Gaston Reece -----Original Message----- From: Wanda Pezzaglia Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 5:57 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [CherokeeGene] Daniel Bernard Hughes/Hembree site Went to the Hembree site that Joyce mentions. Archive Message on May 2010 is great. She gives a length discussion regarding Daniel Bernard Hughes. Highly recommend reading it. Went to the movies and checked the messages after coming home--what a surprise. wanda =====*NOTICE THIS*===== Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). Rude people will be moderated asap! List archive http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene please take non genealogy to [email protected] Dual admin. Dan and Joyce ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
My point Alli is that we just don't know how long that day was. He did say, as stated before, that one minute to him was like 1000 years to us. Just my opinion and we all know what those are worth. These are 'days' by God's measurements....not a 24 hour time calendar that wasn't created until thousands of years later. Joyce Gaston Reece Ok......I'm pretty new to studying the Bible.......but ..... unless I have misinterpreted you & Joyce..... all's that says is the Light is called Day & the dark He called Night & its the first day.........but how 'long' was that day back then?
I still have "Alderman" relatives in Durham/NC And I am not an expert, but I do know what I know/ BARB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alli :)" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 12:53 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] Cherokee Heritage > Bob....... > > Don't cancel this group......its worth staying on. > > Since I am one who responds to her comments, I will refrain from doing so > on > the group. I'd rather "ignore" one then lose another long time member :) > > Alli > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert H Appleby" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 12:02 PM > Subject: [CherokeeGene] Cherokee Heritage > > > > Folks, > > > > My great-great grandmother was supposedly full blood Cherokee (name of > > Jane Young). She married at Ritter and lived in MS and other Southern > > States, and after she died her offspring applied for membership in the > > Cherokee Nation in 1895. The applications was denied due to the fact > > that > > they had not lived in IT for 5 years. On the application several > > witnesses claimed that Jane Young was full blood Cherokee, and the > > photos > > that I have of her daughter, my great-grandmother, certainly look to > > have > > indian characteristics. Our oral history is that she was full blood > > Cherokee, and the Application supports that. However, my research has > > failed to verify any parental relations of Jane Young. Therefore, I am > > continuing to look for information that will substantiate the > > information > > contained on the Application. > > > > Until lately, I have been happy with the dialog that is on this list > > serve. However, I have come to the conclusion that a certain Barbara > > Gordon-Lanto is not furthering this dialog. She is constantly refusing > > to > > reference where that information is from, and insist on having her > > private > > information remain private and get incensed when one questions whether > > her > > information is accurate. If she continues to promote multiple response > > with little additional information, I am going to be forced to cancel my > > membership in this list serve,, because the multiple responses are > > becoming too much of an added burden with all the other genealogical > > emails I receive. > > > > Many thanks to all of the other responders who recognize that not all of > > us are experts, nor have been studying this area for a very long time. > > > > Happy New Year to all. > > > > Robert H Appleby (Bob) > > 207 Watts St > > Durham, NC 27701-2036 > > 919-682-8902 > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > > Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do > > genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). > > > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > > List archive > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > > please take non genealogy to [email protected] > > Dual admin. > > Dan and Joyce > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do > genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > please take non genealogy to [email protected] > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >
Definitely food for thought.......... Which was what I was trying to offer.... Thanks for the enlightenment. Joyce Gaston Reece -----Original Message----- From: Spiritwalker Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 5:31 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] DNA-Barb Love you Joyce, but I'm afraid I must disagree with your statement that "nowhere in this Bible are we given what a day consists of." No desire to start an argument, but Genesis chapter 1, verse 3-5 tells exactly what a day is and it has never changed. If we are to rely on the Bible, we must take it all........... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce Gaston Reece" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 12:43 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] DNA-Barb > In Genesis we are taught that God created the heavens and the earth in > seven > days.....again an English term. Now, nowhere in this Bible are we given > what a 'day' consists of a few thousand years before Christ. The > Gregorian > calendar wasn't invented until circa 1500 AD so just how do we know how > long > a 'day' was. Time is relevant. It is something we humans use to measure > the passing of our lives. BUT that measurement didn't exist during the > birth of heaven and earth. So just how do we know that these SEVEN days > (which are a loosely translated period of time) didn't cover a period of > thousands to millions of years???? Could we not say it took seven > miracles > to form Heaven and Earth over an indefinate period of time?? > > > > Joyce Gaston Reece > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do > genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > please take non genealogy to [email protected] > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). Rude people will be moderated asap! List archive http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene please take non genealogy to [email protected] Dual admin. Dan and Joyce ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
After Moytoy, there are no full bloods.The tribe was almost totally wiped out. BARB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce Gaston Reece" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 12:55 PM Subject: [CherokeeGene] Full Blood? > By the time we begin seeing any records it is quite often we see > angelicized > names. Often because the whites couldn't pronounce the name or speak the > language so they 'stuck' one one them. But by the time of 1750 to the > Removal the intermingling of the two races became quite common. In the > applications and claims we, quite often, see quite a few mixed bloods. It > is sometimes said that by the time of the Removal that the majority of the > 'full bloods' had already removed west. Return Jonathan Meigs wrote in > 1800 > that apx 50% of those remaining east were Mixed Bloods....although some > disagreed with that figure. Regardless the progression of Treaties that > shrank the holdings of the Cherokee Nation saw a whole new crop of mixed > bloods along the treaty lines. > > > > Joyce Gaston Reece > > "Full Blood" > One of the most used terms in genealogy research. > Next to the Cherokee Princess. > Might I suggest a question to those who are well experienced in this. > Once a person is dubbed an English or non NA names, could we not figure > they > are not full blood by this time? > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do > genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > please take non genealogy to [email protected] > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >
Native names given at Birth never change. But a Cherokee may have several "English" names at various time slots. At puberty a boy ususally lived with an Uncle, brother to the mother or clan mother's, and may take that last name as part of the household.. It was for the boy's traditional warrior training. The idea was to confuse the government. Cherokee and other tribes were being hunted down like a poor animal.(1700- 1800's) BARB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Reynolds" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] Cherokee Heritage > Yeah, that term Indian Princess gets me. I couldn't believe my eyes > when the history text we used last term called Pocahontas an Indian > Princess. I wanted to jump up and down ranting about the misuse of > the term. I finally opted to address it in my mid-term exam. The > professor who wrote the book obviously didn't do his homework. He > even got the story wrong! > > Ah, but the term full-blood is relative. It literally means of full > blood, but it was also applied to those who lived among the > full-bloods and were accepted by them as such, even thought they > weren't. I've seen many Dawes and Miller applications that say > "so-and-so is considered a full-blood even though she (or he) really > isn't." If you lived among the full-bloods and accepted their values, > traditions and way of life, you were called a full-blood - regardless. > > And there were many full-bloods who refused to adopt anglicized names > and were simply given them. My Uncle Cephas was a half-blood > Chickasaw. His father, who I've always heard called Wilson Holson > James(my grandfather was named Holson in his honor) was a full-blood > Chickasaw who spoke little English and I still haven't learned to > pronounce his Chickasaw name. He was told he HAD to have an English > name. He picked Wilson and Holson because he liked the sound of them > and the Indian Agent picked James as his last name just because. It > caused some misinterpretation, let me tell you. We have loads of > family stories in both mine and my cousin Kathy's families (she's a > Revelle by birth, I'm a Wood by birth and her great grandfather and my > great grandmother were siblings), about the James boys coming to > visit. Our families aren't close, but Kathy and I have become close > since discovering each other so these stories weren't shared before > hand. We decided that meant Cephas James, his brothers and sons had > come to visit. NOT! When we finally found a reference in another > cousin's great grandfather's ledger and account books from his days in > Broken Bow, OK and before, it turned out it was THE James Boys - Frank > and Jesse and their cronies. > > Names are funny things, especially among the Cherokee who might change > names several times during their lifetimes. You just never know where > they will lead and what they might come to mean! > > Susan > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do > genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > please take non genealogy to [email protected] > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >