June, You'll also find the following in the early VA Patent Books: Ellsey, John Elsey, John Elzey, John Elsey, Jno. & Wm. Elsie, Peter Elsye, Arnold & Jno. Joy ----- Original Message ----- From: "june kennedy" <juneke@btc-bci.com> To: <CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 1:46 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] The Name Alsey > What wonderful information. > > Thank you, > > June

What wonderful information. Thank you, June ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joy King" <joyk@sc.rr.com> To: <CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 11:54 AM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] The Name Alsey > Janet, > > I think you and I have discussed this before. Ellzey/Elisay/Elsay/ etc. is > also a *surname*. > > Early Quaker Records of Southeast VA, compiled by Martha A. Putman > The following appear in the Blackwater Monthly Meeting: > 18-11-1786. William ELLZEY and Agathy LADD to marry > > Motes, South Carolina Memorials: Abstracts of Land Titles Volume 1 1774- > 1776 > MERREDY ELISAY, 2 Nov. 1774: 300 acres in Berkley County. Bounded S on > WALKER; other sides vacant. Survey certified 16 Oct. 1772; granted May > 1774. Quit rent in 2 years. H. MOUZON, JR., DS. [13-80:2] > MORREDAY ELSAY, 14 Nov. 1775: 200 acres in Berkley County on Dean Swamp or > Wilkinsons Swamp on E side of it, in St. James Parish Goose Creek. > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~chalkley/volume_1/or16_195.htm#page%20197 > > Chronicles of the Scotch -Irish Settlement in Virginia Vol1 > Order Book April 4, 1778 > 280) Called Court on Andrew Wilson for murdering his wife Jane.--Guilty, > and sent to Williamsburg for trial. Nicholas and Mary Elsey witnesses. > September 15, 1778 - (355) It appears to the Court that Nicholas Ellzee > and Mary, his daughter, recognized to appear before General Court in the > prosecution against Andrew Wilson, as too poor and in too bad health to > travel to Williamsburg.--sheriff ordered to convey them and bear expense > out of the County levy. > > 1790 SC CENSUS- census p.270 Orangeburg Dist. (South Part) MARY ELSEY 0 1 > 4 > > In 1829 Mary Sizemore of Barnwell Co., SC gives land to her grandson > Edward ELZA Sizemore. > Joy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ljcrain1" <ljcrain1@asapchoice.com> > To: <CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 12:12 AM > Subject: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] The Name Alsey > > >>I never heard this name until recently. My father had an Uncle Elzy who >>had >> died at age 21. We realized where he got his name when we found out >> Elzy's >> grandmother was a Choctaw/Chickasaw/ with a sister and several female >> ancestors named Alsey/Alcey. Someone said it was short for Alice. I >> wonder >> if it was a name favored by Native Americans, because it turns up pretty >> often. >> >> Thanks to all who offered me advice on the question I sent. >> >> Janet Crain > > > ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== > This list is for Genealogy related conversations > Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html > Please Good manors and no flaming others > For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit > CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com > You can also find what you need search the archives > or to get off this list via web site below > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html > Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com

If You who? Finds what out? On 6/25/05, Gailwrits@aol.com <Gailwrits@aol.com> wrote: > > If you find out, would you please let me know too??? > > . > > > ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== > This list is for Genealogy related conversations > Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html > Please Good manors and no flaming others > For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit > CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com > You can also find what you need search the archives > or to get off this list via web site below > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html > Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com > > -- U.B.A.H. Indep.children's Educational Consultant www.ubah.com/D1525 <http://www.ubah.com/D1525> http://alli.cyberwize.com

Janet, I think you and I have discussed this before. Ellzey/Elisay/Elsay/ etc. is also a *surname*. Early Quaker Records of Southeast VA, compiled by Martha A. Putman The following appear in the Blackwater Monthly Meeting: 18-11-1786. William ELLZEY and Agathy LADD to marry Motes, South Carolina Memorials: Abstracts of Land Titles Volume 1 1774- 1776 MERREDY ELISAY, 2 Nov. 1774: 300 acres in Berkley County. Bounded S on WALKER; other sides vacant. Survey certified 16 Oct. 1772; granted May 1774. Quit rent in 2 years. H. MOUZON, JR., DS. [13-80:2] MORREDAY ELSAY, 14 Nov. 1775: 200 acres in Berkley County on Dean Swamp or Wilkinsons Swamp on E side of it, in St. James Parish Goose Creek. http://www.rootsweb.com/~chalkley/volume_1/or16_195.htm#page%20197 Chronicles of the Scotch -Irish Settlement in Virginia Vol1 Order Book April 4, 1778 280) Called Court on Andrew Wilson for murdering his wife Jane.--Guilty, and sent to Williamsburg for trial. Nicholas and Mary Elsey witnesses. September 15, 1778 - (355) It appears to the Court that Nicholas Ellzee and Mary, his daughter, recognized to appear before General Court in the prosecution against Andrew Wilson, as too poor and in too bad health to travel to Williamsburg.--sheriff ordered to convey them and bear expense out of the County levy. 1790 SC CENSUS- census p.270 Orangeburg Dist. (South Part) MARY ELSEY 0 1 4 In 1829 Mary Sizemore of Barnwell Co., SC gives land to her grandson Edward ELZA Sizemore. Joy ----- Original Message ----- From: "ljcrain1" <ljcrain1@asapchoice.com> To: <CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 12:12 AM Subject: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] The Name Alsey >I never heard this name until recently. My father had an Uncle Elzy who had > died at age 21. We realized where he got his name when we found out Elzy's > grandmother was a Choctaw/Chickasaw/ with a sister and several female > ancestors named Alsey/Alcey. Someone said it was short for Alice. I wonder > if it was a name favored by Native Americans, because it turns up pretty > often. > > Thanks to all who offered me advice on the question I sent. > > Janet Crain

I never heard this name until recently. My father had an Uncle Elzy who had died at age 21. We realized where he got his name when we found out Elzy's grandmother was a Choctaw/Chickasaw/ with a sister and several female ancestors named Alsey/Alcey. Someone said it was short for Alice. I wonder if it was a name favored by Native Americans, because it turns up pretty often. Thanks to all who offered me advice on the question I sent. Janet Crain

WOW...Double WOW....I cannot go into any details here...but ...I would like to talk to you about this...this is more than intense...and more than just fleeting.... I have been ill...and have not been online for a few weeks now, more than a few...and I am just getting to my emails...over 1200 of them to be exact...but...this one I must respond to... Please email me....regarding this posting.... Thank you Cat Staya Udanvti Bob Butler <cherokeebo@starband.net> wrote: Native American BLOOD MEMORY *I now understand and have verified over the years that there are people that actually have "Blood Memory" or "Inherited Memory" or "DNA Memory" . This ‘Blood Memory’ is something that a person with just a drop of Native American Indian heritage will have.

If you find out, would you please let me know too??? .

I have an Ailsey who's English name was Eleanor , oftentimes called Ellen.

We were worried..and trying to make sure you were ok. I am glad you are pulling through. Sleeping Fawn ----- Original Message ----- From: GLewis2035@aol.com To: CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] FYI and a Question In a message dated 6/25/2005 11:50:39 AM Central Daylight Time, jgreece@earthlink.net writes: > Grandma, Don, William and all those others are concerned about you Well , I appreciate their consern but there is no need for worry. I am an old woman and have my ups and downs with health issues but the Creator takes care of me. I am slowly pulling out of this spell and soon back to my usuall self. Luv, Grandma ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== This list is for Genealogy related conversations Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html Please Good manors and no flaming others For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com You can also find what you need search the archives or to get off this list via web site below http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com

In a message dated 6/25/2005 11:50:39 AM Central Daylight Time, jgreece@earthlink.net writes: > Grandma, Don, William and all those others are concerned about you Well , I appreciate their consern but there is no need for worry. I am an old woman and have my ups and downs with health issues but the Creator takes care of me. I am slowly pulling out of this spell and soon back to my usuall self. Luv, Grandma

May I say a hearty AMEN Grandma, Don, William and all those others are concerned about you. Joyce Gaston Reece ----- Original Message ----- From: GLewis2035@aol.com To: CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 11:04 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] FYI and a Question I have never expected the words of thanks in a Cherokee community. It is most usually given by helping others. It is considered quite rude to do things for others expecting something in return for self gratification. To be the giver is a blessing in itself. I learned this lesson the hard way. The less you expect of others the more you are able to give of yourself. The more you give of yourself , the more you grow and profit from what you have done. Cherokee people are governed by what is best for the people as a whole and they are not quick to be critical of others. Grandma ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== This list is for Genealogy related conversations Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html Please Good manors and no flaming others For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com You can also find what you need search the archives or to get off this list via web site below http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com

Thank you, Grandma. Such wise words to live by. Tonya ----- Original Message ----- From: <GLewis2035@aol.com> To: <CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 11:04 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] FYI and a Question > I have never expected the words of thanks in a Cherokee community. It > is most usually given by helping others. It is considered quite rude to do > things for others expecting something in return for self gratification. To be the > giver is a blessing in itself. I learned this lesson the hard way. The less > you expect of others the more you are able to give of yourself. The more you > give of yourself , the more you grow and profit from what you have done. > Cherokee people are governed by what is best for the people as a whole and they are > not quick to be critical of others. Grandma > > > ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== > This list is for Genealogy related conversations > Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html > Please Good manors and no flaming others > For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit > CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com > You can also find what you need search the archives > or to get off this list via web site below > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html > Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com > >

Very well said. Wado. Catch ya' later, Sylvia ----- Original Message ----- From: <GLewis2035@aol.com> To: <CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 10:04 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] FYI and a Question > I have never expected the words of thanks in a Cherokee community. It > is most usually given by helping others. It is considered quite rude to do > things for others expecting something in return for self gratification. To be the > giver is a blessing in itself. I learned this lesson the hard way. The less > you expect of others the more you are able to give of yourself. The more you > give of yourself , the more you grow and profit from what you have done. > Cherokee people are governed by what is best for the people as a whole and they are > not quick to be critical of others. Grandma > > > ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== > This list is for Genealogy related conversations > Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html > Please Good manors and no flaming others > For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit > CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com > You can also find what you need search the archives > or to get off this list via web site below > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html > Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com >

I have never expected the words of thanks in a Cherokee community. It is most usually given by helping others. It is considered quite rude to do things for others expecting something in return for self gratification. To be the giver is a blessing in itself. I learned this lesson the hard way. The less you expect of others the more you are able to give of yourself. The more you give of yourself , the more you grow and profit from what you have done. Cherokee people are governed by what is best for the people as a whole and they are not quick to be critical of others. Grandma

The first constitution was written in the 1820's. You are correct that the Constitution forbade the selling of land. Under Cherokee law & custom the land was owned by the Tribe. An individual Cherokee could own the improvements to the land and had a possessory right to the land he/she was own. They could sell, trade, etc that possessory right and the improvements but not the land itself. Ethnicity and citizenship are not necessarily the same. The Cherokee allowed citizenship to whites. A Cherokee (or any other Native) could leave their tribe and live in the American society. Whether they were tithable or not would depend on the location and the laws of that location. In many locales they would be called "a free person of color", a term normally thought of as referring to freemen of African ancestry but in actuality would be any non-white who was not enslaved. Whatever the laws were at that time and in that locale would determine whether a person of Native American ethnicity could serve on a jury, vote, be a witness, etc. ----- Original Message ----- From: "ljcrain1" <ljcrain1@asapchoice.com> To: <CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 11:38 AM Subject: Cherokee Constitution >I know that the Cherokee Constitution forbade individual ownership or sale >of land, but when was the Constitution written? What would have been the >legal status of a "fullblood Cherokee" owning land, being listed on >tithable rolls, tax rolls, etc. in the 1700's? The ancestor in question >did all these things, yet many insist he was a fullblood Cherokee. > > I need something to refer to. > > Thanks! > > Janet Crain > ______________________________

I have just found proof that Zachariah Collins changed his name to Collinsworth. Here is my family. I have underlined my direct family. Descendants of Zachariah COLLINS Generation No. 1 1. ZACHARIAH COLLINS He married WELTHY BEAMAN 08 Oct 1802 in Johnston, North Carolina. Children of ZACHARIAH COLLINS and WELTHY BEAMAN are: 2. i. WHITSON COLLINS, b. 1829, North Carolina. ii. ZACHARIAH COLLINS, b. Aug 1829, North Carolina. Generation No. 2 2. WHITSON COLLINS (ZACHARIAH) was born 1829 in North Carolina. He married MARTHA ANN MARTIN, daughter of ISAAC MARTIN and NANCY ELLISON. She was born 19 Nov 1827 in Cherokee, Alabama, and died in Y. Children of WHITSON COLLINS and MARTHA MARTIN are: i. CATHERINE J. COLLINSWORTH, b. 1845, Ala; d. Y. ii. AMANDA COLLINSWORTH, b. 1849, Alabama; d. Y. iii. CALVIN COLLINSWORTH, b. 1851, Ala; d. Y. iv. MARTHA ANN COLLINSWORTH, b. 1853, AL; d. Y. 3. v. JOHN WESLEYCOLLINSWORTH,SR, b. 1855, Alabama; d. 1920, Chatahuchee, Jackson, Fla. vi. RACHEL COLLINSWORTH, b. 1858, Ala; d. Y. vii. MELDRET COLLINSWORTH, b. 1860, Covington Cty, Ala; d. Y. viii. ANN COLLINSWORTH, b. 1862, Alabama; d. Y. Generation No. 3 3. JOHN WESLEY COLLINSWORTH,SR (WHITSON2 COLLINS, ZACHARIAH1) was born 1855 in Alabama, and died 1920 in Chatahuchee, Jackson, Fla. He married AMANDA COOK 1877 in Defuniak Spgs, Oka., Florida, daughter of NOAH COOK and NARCISIS NOBLES. She was born 17 May 1859, and died 13 Nov 1943 in Port St Joe, Gulf, Fla. Children of JOHN COLLINSWORTH,SR and AMANDA COOK are: i. IRNESIA COLLINSWORTH, b. Defuniak Spgs, Walton, Fla. ii. HENRY COLLINSWORTH, b. Defuniak Spgs, Walton, Fla. iii. WILEY COLLINSWORTH, b. Geneva, Coffee, Ala. iv. PEARLIE COLLINSWORTH, d. Child. v. AMANDA COLLINSWORTH, d. Child. vi. IRNESIA COLLINSWORTH, b. Defuniak Spgs, Walton, Fla. vii. DEVANDER COLLINSWORTH. viii. JOHN WESLEYCOLLINSWORTH,JR, b. Defuniak Spgs, Walton, Fla. ix. ABSCILLA MELVINA COLLINSWORTH, b. 28 May 1880, Defuniak Spgs, Walton, Fla; d. 08 Sep 1942, Crestview, Oka, Fla; m. CHARLES WILBURNGAINEY,SR, 1905, Defuniak Spgs, Walton, Fla; b. 17 Apr 1856, Defuniak Spgs, Walton, Fla; d. 14 Apr 1936, Defuniak Spgs, Walton, Fla. x. SOPHRONIA COLLINSWORTH, b. 01 Dec 1884, Defuniak Spgs, Walton, Fla; d. 18 Apr 1976, Wewahitchca, Fla. xi. AMANDA ELLAFARE COLLINSWORTH, b. 05 Feb 1890, Defuniak Spgs, Walton, Fla; d. 20 May 1926.

On 6/24/05, sharon hembree <sharon.hembree@gmail.com> wrote: > > anyone....if a person is on any rolls, when they marry does their name > change to the married name? and I always say thank you for any help I never > have ask before this is the first. so thank you now and will say thanks > later to. > > > > ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== > This list is for Genealogy related conversations > Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html > Please Good manors and no flaming others > For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit > CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com > You can also find what you need search the archives > or to get off this list via web site below > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html > Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com > > >

Well I hope no one gets us confused. I would hate for you to receive my kudos in error. If nothing else, perhaps everyone will remember to say thank you more often. Seems like such a little thing to do. Plantlady Jackie

We've seen Ailsey Vann bantered around quite a bit BUT when one stops to consider it the term "Full Blood" is, as Susan stated, more a frame of mind than a degree of heredity. From the beginning of recorded history to this day there are many records of mixed marriages. There is even one site that states that several of the major families of the Overhills were of white/Shawnee metis who were accepted as a part of the Cherokee who resided in the region. Anyone who states they are 'full blood' and means that to be a physical state should have their dna checked to see if that caucausian dna doesn't slip in there in a place or two. Joyce Gaston Reece, Director Etowah Senior Center "doing our part to help you grow in your golden years" ----- Original Message ----- From: Debbie Woolf To: CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 12:49 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] FYI and a Question HI, I have an Ailsey, Alsey in my family, some write her name as "Alice" so I am not sure what it was. She was not Cherokee or N/A as far as I know. Something I was told a long time ago, and I have no proof of is that many Melungeon and Native people used spanish sounding names, so the female versions end in "A" such as Cilla, Celia, Sela, Lovada, Vada, Elvira, and for men names like Manuel, Domingo, Salvador are a few. I really don't think it's set in stone, and people used alot of names for people they knew and were (1) fond of (2) admired (3) famous or (4) biblical, just as they do today. But if you see a pattern of names being used in a family, which are odd, names that continue among many members of the family, then I would consider if there is something about the origins of those names. Nothing can be proven by the names themselves however. hope that helps. Debbie ----- Original Message ----- From: <HUKUNI@aol.com> To: <CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 4:55 AM Subject: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] FYI and a Question > Just wanted everyone to know, I am not the same Jackie as the one who needs > to be thanked, before I ask this question. > > Was Aisley a Cherokee name or was it just a Cherokee spelling/pronunciation > of Elsie? If anyone knows I will be grateful for the answer and if you don't > know I am grateful that you took the time to read this and think about it. > > Isn't there a Scripture about those who want their reward in this life and > those who are willing to wait until the next for theirs? > > Thankfully > just jackie > > > ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== > This list is for Genealogy related conversations > Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html > Please Good manors and no flaming others > For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit > CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com > You can also find what you need search the archives > or to get off this list via web site below > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html > Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.8 - Release Date: 5/10/05 > > ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== This list is for Genealogy related conversations Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html Please Good manors and no flaming others For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com You can also find what you need search the archives or to get off this list via web site below http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com

but such a big thing to complain about :) Alli perhaps everyone will remember to say thank you more often. > Seems like such a little thing to do. > > > Plantlady Jackie > > > > ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== > This list is for Genealogy related conversations > Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html > Please Good manors and no flaming others > For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit > CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com > You can also find what you need search the archives > or to get off this list via web site below > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html > Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com >