----- Original Message ----- From: "Staya Udanvti Bob Butler" <cherokeebo@starband.net> =========>>> Please note this = > ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== > This list is for Genealogy related conversations

----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 2:29 PM Subject: Hill & Holler Column From: susanbates@webtv.net (Susan) Subject: Hill & Holler Column On Becoming A Woman Before the coming of the White Race, Traditional Indigenous People valued their women highly, for it is she alone who has the ability to give life. Respecting women's power and incorporating her into all aspects of society kept everything in balance. And it was the constant strive for balance - the perfect tension between male and female - that kept our People strong. From the time they were little girls, women were taught their importance to the clan, village, and tribe. When a young Cherokee girl had her first moon time, a special ceremony called an Ataniska, was held for her. Much thought and preparation went into this ceremony and it was a joyous occasion. The girl was presented with a belt of white wampum which she was to wear around her hips until she got married. Her sisters and elders gathered around her and taught her what being a woman was all about. She was counselled that she should not give herself away too cheaply for she was a prize of great value to be won by the best man. And since she would one day bring children into this world, she should choose her husband with great care. Cherokee women had great dignity born of self worth. Their moral standards were high and men and women respected each other and themselves. All that changed when the "superior race" stole the land. To do that, they had to destroy the culture of those that Creator had given it to. I often think about how it was and how it is now. Sex is a valuable marketing tool used to sell everything from cars to hamburgers. Women are not respected and don't even respect themselves. In this "Flash and Trash" culture we've created, we've allowed ourselves to become little more than sex objects to be used and discarded when we're past our "prime." Those of us who don't fit the ideals created by Hollywood, aren't deemed "worthy." Gray hair, once a symbol of wisdom, is handled with "Loving Care." A thousand magic potions are guaranteed to erase wrinkles. Young girls starve themselves to death to be one of the "beautiful people." But no matter how beautiful the package, if the spirit inside is shriveled and rancid, then there is nothing of value. Traditional Peoples still honor the New Woman. Today it is more important than ever to do so, for when woman regains her rightful place in society, the balance will be restored. Cherokee call this the emergence of the 5th world. I urge all of you who are coming back together as tribal people to bring back your New Woman's Ceremonies. It is not the big things that will bring about the changes we're all waiting for, but the small basic understandings of who we are and how it was and will be again. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Anorexia Bulimia Speaks From The Grave ---------A Poem by Marilou Awiakta Young woman, listen to me ----- I'm talkin' to you. Don't come down here before your time. It's dark and cold. Nothin' doin' down here but the Grandmothers sayin' "Anorexia Bulimia! Tell the young women this for us: They bound our feet and our toes busted out --- to travel on, test new waters. They bound our breasts ---- our nipples busted out, infra - red eyes to take in what the other two miss. When they bound our middle rib 'n hip busted the stays took the waist with 'em --- free as they were born. But now, young woman - now... They've got your soul in a bind, wounded, wound up in electronic wire and hard paper twine that cut images into your brain, unnatural images sayin' 'Starve yourself to suit us. Starve your body. Starve you power. Starve your dream - thinner and thinner - until YOU vanish.' They want you to do that 'cause if you was to take on weight you might start throwing it around. No way can They handle a full - grown woman with a full - grown dream. No way." Listen young women, the Grandmothers and Anorexia Bulimia are talkin' to you - Feed your body. Feed your soul. Feed your dream. BUST OUT!!! <><><><><><><>><><><><><><><><><> You can contact me at susanbates@webtv.net or write me at HC 73 Box 159-1, Drury, MO 65638

Thanks for sharing the site, maybe one day I will find my ancestors. susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce G. Reece" <jgreece@earthlink.net> To: <CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 9:48 PM Subject: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] FYI >I have just posted the biography of Sequoyah as given by Major George >Lowery, in 1835 with introduction and transcription by John Howard Payne. > > www.rootsweb.com/~tnpolk2 Behind 'records' under "C" > > BTW all of the American State Papers with references to the Cherokee are > on this site also. I had extracted those pertinent to the Cherokee and > posted them in the same spot. > > > Joyce Gaston Reece > > > ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== > This list is for Genealogy related conversations > Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html > Please Good manors and no flaming others > For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit > CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com > You can also find what you need search the archives > or to get off this list via web site below > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html > Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com > >

I have just posted the biography of Sequoyah as given by Major George Lowery, in 1835 with introduction and transcription by John Howard Payne. www.rootsweb.com/~tnpolk2 Behind 'records' under "C" BTW all of the American State Papers with references to the Cherokee are on this site also. I had extracted those pertinent to the Cherokee and posted them in the same spot. Joyce Gaston Reece

Looking for anyone researching/has knowledge of Peggy Overtaker Moore--usually referred to Peggy Moore, Overtaker's daughter. She lived in Georgia in the 1830's when the Henderson Roll was completed. Wonder how & if she's related to Charles and Killer Moore. Ex wife, mother, or no relationship at all???

Joyce I was just looking thru some paperwork, and found some indication of possilbe familail connection to Chichasaw...but not sure about intent and or proof, but I do remeber hearing my mom say were were Cherokee and Chicksaw, and learned later possily also, Creek......also...the property that was destroyed, I am not certain who that belonged to, apparently it is near/boarders a Creek, in TN...also...there was mention of ancestral property that was used in the Cumberland Gap area...for traders , referred to as a 'Way-Station'...not sure what that means or if it is the same place...these were notes I made off of stuff that was showed to me a few years back...by someone who is now deceased...working on their genealogy...and we shared the Cox line...who married into my Martin line, I also lost that persons name and contact info, a cpl yrs ago when I was hacked... Just thought I would give you all I have...might help...gonna do some surfing (online, lol), now... Later Cat Cathy Raney <cathy53@swbell.net> wrote: Joyce It is my belief that the James M who is 5, listed below...is my James Matt Martin married to Sara Amanda Cox... I have his (James Matt Martin's) name and Michael's name from my mothers Bible...but it was pointed out to me, that Michael could be a miss write...and not be his father, but his brother...but that is all the info I have on my Martins....I have Never been able to find any info other than this...and Joy King actually found this little piece for me on Ancestry .... I know that there was a lot of 'Closed mouth's ' regarding the familiy my mother came from...and many stories...I remember hearing my mom talk about how she was told stories about family member's in hiding....that someone had destroyed property and someone was murdered...and with the property destruction family papers were destroyed (Don't know which family line that story is from)...I also remember my mother talking about how no one would admit to being Cherokee...or "Indian" that it was also possible we were Creek as well..?..., that there was a 'disinheritance from a wealthy family in Va, from the Randolphs line, when my Sizemore's grandma married a Randolph...as we heard growing up...we were to 'keep our mouth shut'...which is how she was raised....I know that some of that had to do with her mother being a Sizemore...but she married a Martin... I have heard of him, but I have truly not really read much about him, maybe I should....when yuo said ' THE' you got me courious...so I will have to do some looking... If you come across any info, Please let me know.. Thanks Cat "Joyce G. Reece" wrote: Cathy Do you have any inkling that your Joseph could be descended from THE Joseph Martin via son James? The one who seems to be missing his children? Joyce Gaston Reece ----- Original Message ----- From: Cathy Raney To: CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] Martin Hello Debbie My maternal grandfather is a Charles Bruner Martin,,info below from TN...perhaps some of these names might ring a bell...would be wonderful if some had something I don't... Cat ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ancestry.com- 1850 census Washington Co., TN- 4th Subdivision- Eastern Division- census p.244- image 238- 1975/2008 Joseph MARTIN 28 M BlackSmith [all b.TN] Margaretta 28 F Michael 6 M James M. 5 M Mary 3 F Elbert 2 M > My maternal grandpa was; > > Charles Bruner MARTIN,b.06 Feb 1881,BoonesCreek,Washington Co.,TN, died 08 > aug 1961Johnson City,Wash.Co.TN....married to > >> Ida Jean SIZEMORE,b. 17 Sept 1884,CranberryN.C. > > His father was ; > James Matt MARTIN..............married..Sarah Amanda COX, b. Nov > 1847, Jonesboro,Wash.Co. TN > > His Father; > Michael MARTIN...........no info ILA W wrote: Debbie, I am enormously grateful for you my genealogy friend!!!!! You share an incredible amount of data! Still working through these Martin families. They have to be collaterals. I see a lot of naming patterns which match, some of the dates. I purchased a copy of " Maryland and Virginia Colonials: Genealogies of Some Colonial Families" by Sharon J. Doliante. It is an excellent resource. I appreciate the recommendation. Anyway, book arrived in yesterday's mail and have not had time to do anything but glance. I tend to get 'the busies' (from Grandma's quotes) in the month of July and things move a little more slowly. I need to check on the Harris lineage more closely and get notes of that to you. OR did I already do that? Off top of my head.....Thomas Harris/Harrison (he used both variously depending on the document) in the mid 1700's married to Jemima Bayliss. More on that later. My mom is a Wolfe.....from Laurens Co, SC....we may have a connection there also? More on that later! Thank you again so very, very much! Your kindness will multiply! Ila ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== This list is for Genealogy related conversations Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html Please Good manors and no flaming others For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com You can also find what you need search the archives or to get off this list via web site below http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== This list is for Genealogy related conversations Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html Please Good manors and no flaming others For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com You can also find what you need search the archives or to get off this list via web site below http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== This list is for Genealogy related conversations Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html Please Good manors and no flaming others For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com You can also find what you need search the archives or to get off this list via web site below http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com

Joyce It is my belief that the James M who is 5, listed below...is my James Matt Martin married to Sara Amanda Cox... I have his (James Matt Martin's) name and Michael's name from my mothers Bible...but it was pointed out to me, that Michael could be a miss write...and not be his father, but his brother...but that is all the info I have on my Martins....I have Never been able to find any info other than this...and Joy King actually found this little piece for me on Ancestry .... I know that there was a lot of 'Closed mouth's ' regarding the familiy my mother came from...and many stories...I remember hearing my mom talk about how she was told stories about family member's in hiding....that someone had destroyed property and someone was murdered...and with the property destruction family papers were destroyed (Don't know which family line that story is from)...I also remember my mother talking about how no one would admit to being Cherokee...or "Indian" that it was also possible we were Creek as well..?..., that there was a 'disinheritance from a wealthy family in Va, from the Randolphs line, when my Sizemore's grandma married a Randolph...as we heard growing up...we were to 'keep our mouth shut'...which is how she was raised....I know that some of that had to do with her mother being a Sizemore...but she married a Martin... I have heard of him, but I have truly not really read much about him, maybe I should....when yuo said ' THE' you got me courious...so I will have to do some looking... If you come across any info, Please let me know.. Thanks Cat "Joyce G. Reece" <jgreece@earthlink.net> wrote: Cathy Do you have any inkling that your Joseph could be descended from THE Joseph Martin via son James? The one who seems to be missing his children? Joyce Gaston Reece ----- Original Message ----- From: Cathy Raney To: CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] Martin Hello Debbie My maternal grandfather is a Charles Bruner Martin,,info below from TN...perhaps some of these names might ring a bell...would be wonderful if some had something I don't... Cat ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ancestry.com- 1850 census Washington Co., TN- 4th Subdivision- Eastern Division- census p.244- image 238- 1975/2008 Joseph MARTIN 28 M BlackSmith [all b.TN] Margaretta 28 F Michael 6 M James M. 5 M Mary 3 F Elbert 2 M > My maternal grandpa was; > > Charles Bruner MARTIN,b.06 Feb 1881,BoonesCreek,Washington Co.,TN, died 08 > aug 1961Johnson City,Wash.Co.TN....married to > >> Ida Jean SIZEMORE,b. 17 Sept 1884,CranberryN.C. > > His father was ; > James Matt MARTIN..............married..Sarah Amanda COX, b. Nov > 1847, Jonesboro,Wash.Co. TN > > His Father; > Michael MARTIN...........no info ILA W wrote: Debbie, I am enormously grateful for you my genealogy friend!!!!! You share an incredible amount of data! Still working through these Martin families. They have to be collaterals. I see a lot of naming patterns which match, some of the dates. I purchased a copy of " Maryland and Virginia Colonials: Genealogies of Some Colonial Families" by Sharon J. Doliante. It is an excellent resource. I appreciate the recommendation. Anyway, book arrived in yesterday's mail and have not had time to do anything but glance. I tend to get 'the busies' (from Grandma's quotes) in the month of July and things move a little more slowly. I need to check on the Harris lineage more closely and get notes of that to you. OR did I already do that? Off top of my head.....Thomas Harris/Harrison (he used both variously depending on the document) in the mid 1700's married to Jemima Bayliss. More on that later. My mom is a Wolfe.....from Laurens Co, SC....we may have a connection there also? More on that later! Thank you again so very, very much! Your kindness will multiply! Ila ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== This list is for Genealogy related conversations Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html Please Good manors and no flaming others For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com You can also find what you need search the archives or to get off this list via web site below http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== This list is for Genealogy related conversations Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html Please Good manors and no flaming others For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com You can also find what you need search the archives or to get off this list via web site below http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com

Cathy Do you have any inkling that your Joseph could be descended from THE Joseph Martin via son James? The one who seems to be missing his children? Joyce Gaston Reece ----- Original Message ----- From: Cathy Raney To: CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] Martin Hello Debbie My maternal grandfather is a Charles Bruner Martin,,info below from TN...perhaps some of these names might ring a bell...would be wonderful if some had something I don't... Cat ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ancestry.com- 1850 census Washington Co., TN- 4th Subdivision- Eastern Division- census p.244- image 238- 1975/2008 Joseph MARTIN 28 M BlackSmith [all b.TN] Margaretta 28 F Michael 6 M James M. 5 M Mary 3 F Elbert 2 M > My maternal grandpa was; > > Charles Bruner MARTIN,b.06 Feb 1881,BoonesCreek,Washington Co.,TN, died 08 > aug 1961Johnson City,Wash.Co.TN....married to > >> Ida Jean SIZEMORE,b. 17 Sept 1884,CranberryN.C. > > His father was ; > James Matt MARTIN..............married..Sarah Amanda COX, b. Nov > 1847, Jonesboro,Wash.Co. TN > > His Father; > Michael MARTIN...........no info ILA W <ILA7@webtv.net> wrote: Debbie, I am enormously grateful for you my genealogy friend!!!!! You share an incredible amount of data! Still working through these Martin families. They have to be collaterals. I see a lot of naming patterns which match, some of the dates. I purchased a copy of " Maryland and Virginia Colonials: Genealogies of Some Colonial Families" by Sharon J. Doliante. It is an excellent resource. I appreciate the recommendation. Anyway, book arrived in yesterday's mail and have not had time to do anything but glance. I tend to get 'the busies' (from Grandma's quotes) in the month of July and things move a little more slowly. I need to check on the Harris lineage more closely and get notes of that to you. OR did I already do that? Off top of my head.....Thomas Harris/Harrison (he used both variously depending on the document) in the mid 1700's married to Jemima Bayliss. More on that later. My mom is a Wolfe.....from Laurens Co, SC....we may have a connection there also? More on that later! Thank you again so very, very much! Your kindness will multiply! Ila ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== This list is for Genealogy related conversations Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html Please Good manors and no flaming others For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com You can also find what you need search the archives or to get off this list via web site below http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com

Hello Debbie My maternal grandfather is a Charles Bruner Martin,,info below from TN...perhaps some of these names might ring a bell...would be wonderful if some had something I don't... Cat ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ancestry.com- 1850 census Washington Co., TN- 4th Subdivision- Eastern Division- census p.244- image 238- 1975/2008 Joseph MARTIN 28 M BlackSmith [all b.TN] Margaretta 28 F Michael 6 M James M. 5 M Mary 3 F Elbert 2 M > My maternal grandpa was; > > Charles Bruner MARTIN,b.06 Feb 1881,BoonesCreek,Washington Co.,TN, died 08 > aug 1961Johnson City,Wash.Co.TN....married to > >> Ida Jean SIZEMORE,b. 17 Sept 1884,CranberryN.C. > > His father was ; > James Matt MARTIN..............married..Sarah Amanda COX, b. Nov > 1847, Jonesboro,Wash.Co. TN > > His Father; > Michael MARTIN...........no info ILA W <ILA7@webtv.net> wrote: Debbie, I am enormously grateful for you my genealogy friend!!!!! You share an incredible amount of data! Still working through these Martin families. They have to be collaterals. I see a lot of naming patterns which match, some of the dates. I purchased a copy of " Maryland and Virginia Colonials: Genealogies of Some Colonial Families" by Sharon J. Doliante. It is an excellent resource. I appreciate the recommendation. Anyway, book arrived in yesterday's mail and have not had time to do anything but glance. I tend to get 'the busies' (from Grandma's quotes) in the month of July and things move a little more slowly. I need to check on the Harris lineage more closely and get notes of that to you. OR did I already do that? Off top of my head.....Thomas Harris/Harrison (he used both variously depending on the document) in the mid 1700's married to Jemima Bayliss. More on that later. My mom is a Wolfe.....from Laurens Co, SC....we may have a connection there also? More on that later! Thank you again so very, very much! Your kindness will multiply! Ila

Jim, are you researching your Waddell line also? My maiden name is Waddell , that's why I asked. Gina

http://www.genealogymagazine.com/ininchna.html

Oiyo Bob, Sounds like you have a lot of details already. My husband found out that a lot of Cherokees defined themselves as white after the removal to avoid persecution. Many of them lived in TN, AK and TX before the Cherokee Nation offered amnesty and tried to lure them back (many still did not go) in the 1890's (with stipulations like getting re-married in the CN). There are but a few Butlers on the Dawes, but not ours. Happy hunting. J. --- Staya Udanvti Bob Butler <cherokeebo@starband.net> wrote: > Osiyo J! > > I have too many to list here. > I can send you my GEDCOM if you have a software > program to run it. > My brick wall is my GGrandfather, Calvin Martin > Butler, b=September 08, 1831, Grainger Co, TN, and > wife Ellen Virginia Ro(w)land, b=June 05, 1846, TN?. > Homestead in Grainger Co (estab 1870), TN. > Calvin was a Union soldier for 3 years in the 1st TN > Cav. and died in 1890 Jefferson City, TN. > > Passed down family info says that Calvin was 1/4 or > 1/2 Cherokee and Virginia was full blood, but both > were listed on the 1870 and 1880 census as white. > Calvin had piercing blue eyes. Neither were on any > rolls either. > > I have a James Butler, unk married to Nancy Sword, > unk. that could possibly be Calvin's parents. > Possible brother James Mathew Butler, b=abt 1818 TN, > married August 21, 1836 Grainger Co TN, to Unity > Whitehead , b= NC?. Only child listed Drucilla A > Butler, unk > > There is a help site online that has volunteers in > most towns that will look up local genealogy info: > http://www.raogk.org/faq-vols.htm > > Adageyudi > Bob Staya Udanvti Butler > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jay earl > To: CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 12:47 AM > Subject: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] Butler > > > O'siyo Bob Butler, > > My husband is researching James Columbus Butler, > an > orphan, rumored to have Cherokee lineage, but he > has > hit a brick wall. Many of his Butlers were from > Arkansas and do not appear on Dawes. Many of them > are > on the census' but are listed as white although > photo's of them look definately Native American. > Can > you post all your Butler names? > > Thanks. > > J. > > > > ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== > This list is for Genealogy related conversations > Your supporting website > http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html > Please Good manors and no flaming others > For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language > lessons Please visit > CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com > You can also find what you need search the > archives > or to get off this list via web site below > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html > Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com > > ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Osiyo J! I have too many to list here. I can send you my GEDCOM if you have a software program to run it. My brick wall is my GGrandfather, Calvin Martin Butler, b=September 08, 1831, Grainger Co, TN, and wife Ellen Virginia Ro(w)land, b=June 05, 1846, TN?. Homestead in Grainger Co (estab 1870), TN. Calvin was a Union soldier for 3 years in the 1st TN Cav. and died in 1890 Jefferson City, TN. Passed down family info says that Calvin was 1/4 or 1/2 Cherokee and Virginia was full blood, but both were listed on the 1870 and 1880 census as white. Calvin had piercing blue eyes. Neither were on any rolls either. I have a James Butler, unk married to Nancy Sword, unk. that could possibly be Calvin's parents. Possible brother James Mathew Butler, b=abt 1818 TN, married August 21, 1836 Grainger Co TN, to Unity Whitehead , b= NC?. Only child listed Drucilla A Butler, unk There is a help site online that has volunteers in most towns that will look up local genealogy info: http://www.raogk.org/faq-vols.htm Adageyudi Bob Staya Udanvti Butler ----- Original Message ----- From: jay earl To: CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 12:47 AM Subject: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] Butler O'siyo Bob Butler, My husband is researching James Columbus Butler, an orphan, rumored to have Cherokee lineage, but he has hit a brick wall. Many of his Butlers were from Arkansas and do not appear on Dawes. Many of them are on the census' but are listed as white although photo's of them look definately Native American. Can you post all your Butler names? Thanks. J.

Hi, Does anyone out there have a Cherokee ancestor from this LOVE family: James LOVE (b. abt 1823 TN) * Namaida Mary __?___ (b. abt 1837 MO) Laura (b. abt 1859 MO) Thomas O. (b. January, 1863 MO) Jeremiah (b. abt 1865 MO) William (b. abt 1870 MO) * son of William J. LOVE (b.NC abt 1798) data source: 1860 Federal Census MO, Montgomery County, Bear Creek , Green Hill M653_635 1 314 image17 Regards, Nancy Malone

Hi, Does anyone out there have a Cherokee ancestor whose maiden name was June LOVE. Parents: William J. LOVE (b.abt 1798 NC) and Loviry (b.abt 1799 NC*) Siblings: James (b.abt 1823 TN), William Thomas LOVE (b. 5/28/1829 TN), Mary (Love) Watkins (b.abt 1828 TN) *depending on which census record Thanks, Nancy

Yes you can go thru your local LDS Family History Center or LDS Genealogy library and they can help you order them. Its around 3.75 to rent the microfilm & its about .25 cents per copy (page). Alli On 7/13/05, Michael Matherly <michael@michaelmatherly.com> wrote: > > Does anyone know what all information is on the Guion Miller applications > and where you can send off to get copies ? Also, are there some of the > same > people on the Guion Miller Roll as on the Dawes Roll and if so, why, if > the > Guion Miller Roll was for eastern and the Dawes was for western ? > > Thanks for any help, > > Michael > >

The Dawes applications & Miller ECAs can be order through this site: http://www.amerindgen.com/apps.html Joy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Matherly" <michael@michaelmatherly.com> To: <CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 2:26 PM Subject: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] Guion Miller Roll > Does anyone know what all information is on the Guion Miller applications > and where you can send off to get copies ?

Thanks Joy Michael

Susan, Thank you very much for replying to my questions and for the information and link you provided. Michael

> Does anyone know what all information is on the > Guion Miller applications > and where you can send off to get copies ? > Also, are there some of the same > people on the Guion Miller Roll as on the Dawes > Roll and if so, why, if the > Guion Miller Roll was for eastern and the Dawes > was for western ? Hello, Michael! Go to this URL and you will see some applications that are already transcribed: http://www.rootsweb.com/~itgenweb/apps/acontents.htm They are wonderful genealogical resources that include at least three generations and often 4-5, occasionally more. You can view them on film, available from the National Archives. If your local library has microfilm readers you can usually rent them through the library for a very nominal fee. You can also get them sent to the local Family History Center is you have one. If you are fortunate enough to live near a National Archives branch you can view them there. Failing that, you can order copies from the Oklahoma Historical Society, but it is much more expensive that way. The people that received the Guion Miller payout were those whose families had been affected by the Treaty of New Echota in 1835. If they had walked the Trail of Tears or had remained in the East (with a substantial loss of kinship, land, and initially by giving up their Cherokee citizenship, although they never really did - good for them!), then they, or their descendants, were eligible for the payout. Old Settlers - those who had voluntarily removed west - had already been compensated for their losses and removal and were not eligible for Miller. A person could have one parent an Old Settler and one an Emigrant Cherokee and be eligible for both. The Dawes Roll had nothing to do with compensation. It was to allocate the land in the IT until all the members of the various nations had their little piece of it, then the remainder was to be released for white settlement. To qualify, a person had to be physically resident in the IT (although there were some exceptions such as those on US military duty elsewhere, those who were sent by a doctor for health reasons to another part of the country, and a few who were resident when it started but not when it ended or lived in certain portions of AR that were not technically IT, but had been accepted as so for years) between about 1892-1902 and be on certain designated tribal censuses. For those not on the census records, they could petition the nations for readmission and be accepted for Dawes. In the case of the Cherokee, if you left Cherokee Nation for more than 6 months without the express approval or mandate of the Nation, your citizenship was revoked and you had to petition for readmission. Many who fled to TX during the Civil War had never petitioned for readmission and had to do so. This is what caused that lovely file that confuses people so much - the pre-1896 denied cases that are still listed as Dawes Commission applications. Some of them were denied because no one living remembered their families they had been gone so long, so no one could vouch for them. Some of them were denied for political or personal reasons, sadly sometimes in revenge or spite. Most were denied because they were interlopers trying to get in on a good thing and cheat the nations or because they misunderstood what it was all about and thought they could get land. This was an initial step to statehood and was designed to forever erase the nations, making them all Americans and dissolving all tribal affiliations and governments. Large numbers of those on the Dawes Roll were descendants of or participants in the Trail of Tears and are on both rolls. Bob Blankenship cross referenced the Dawes to the Guion Miller in his Dawes Roll Plus and Guion Miller Roll Plus. Sandi Garrett cross referenced the Drennen Roll of 1851 to the Guion Miller Roll in her "Only the Name Remain" series which is available in individual volumes by district in book form, or much less expensively and all volumes on one CD. They only true "final" roll of the Eastern Cherokee is the Baker Roll and it is mainly the NC Cherokee. Clear as mud, huh? Happy time travels! Susan