Who were his parents? Thank you, Glee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce G. Reece" <jgreece@earthlink.net> To: <CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] John Jolly > These are the results of a search done at wikipedia.com....according to > this definition it would not apply to the Cherokee of the southeast and > mid west....but I will search for more definitions. But irregardless, I'm > thinking it was a translation 'blooper'. > > > > A wickiup (or wikiup) is domed hut-like dwelling used by the semi-nomadic > Native American tribes of the arid regions of the west and southwest North > America, such as Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Utah, Idaho, California, and > northern Mexico. > > > > The term wigwam also refers to a similar domed structure. The difference > in usage between wickiup and wigwam is that wickiup refers to the > dwellings of peoples mostly in the American Southwest while wigwam refers > to the dwellings mostly in the American Northeast. Variation does exist > between the terms, however. > > Joyce Gaston Reece > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Carolyne Gould > To: CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 3:21 PM > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] John Jolly > > > A wigwam is a daubed "house" --- not a tipi --- and is an appropriate > term for Eastern Woodlands tribes, and ome others. Even if Jolly was > living in a stick-built house, he may have referred to it as a > wigwam, just as some Plains tribe traditionals today call their home, > their "lodge." > > Carolyne > > > > >In a message dated 12/30/2005 8:15:19 PM Central Standard Time, > >joyk@sc.rr.com writes: > > > >Did he actually call his home his *wigwam*? > > > > > > > > > >I think so because this biography I posted was transcribed from a book > >written by Dub West. > > > >Dub West was the city of Muskogee, Oklahoma's Historian at one time and > a > >noted writer of Cherokee material. There may be reprints of his > >books available > >somewhere online, if not the library should have them. His History book > >credits include: Muskogee, I. T. - Queen City of the Southwest, > >Persons and Places > >of Indian Territory, Fort Gibson - Gateway to the West, The Mysteries > of > >Sequoyah, Muskogee - From Statehood to Pearl Harbour, Tahlequah and > >the Cherokee > >Nation, Will Rogers - Oklahoma's Gift to America, Legends and Folklore > of > >the Cherokees, Among the Cherokees, Oklahoma is OK, Only in Oklahoma, > Turning > >Back the Clock and Outlaws and Peace Officers of Indian Territory > > > >Suzy > > > > > > > > > >==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== > >This list is for Genealogy related conversations > >Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html > >Please Good manors and no flaming others > >For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit > >CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com > > You can also find what you need search the archives > >or to get off this list via web site below > >http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html > >Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com > > > ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== > This list is for Genealogy related conversations > Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html > Please Good manors and no flaming others > For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit > CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com > You can also find what you need search the archives > or to get off this list via web site below > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html > Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com > > > > ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== > This list is for Genealogy related conversations > Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html > Please Good manors and no flaming others > For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit > CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com > You can also find what you need search the archives > or to get off this list via web site below > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html > Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com > >

In a message dated 12/31/2005 6:37:28 PM Central Standard Time, jgreece@earthlink.net writes: trying to be sure....and learn Yep, me too!!! Carolyne

In a message dated 12/31/2005 6:37:28 PM Central Standard Time, jgreece@earthlink.net writes: trying to be sure....and learn Yep, Joyce, we are on the same page:) I found another mention of John Jolly, in the footnotes of Thomas Nuttall's, "A Journal of Travels into the Arkansas Territory During the Year 1819," edited by Savoie Lottinville. For those unfamiliar with Nuttall, he was the US Surveyor for the Louisiana Purchase. This book is an edited and footnoted edition of his journal. Excellent book, it can be bought for probably $15.00 online. I thought it was worth it, for the footnotes alone:) Footnote 89, Page 143; John Jolly, Tahlonteskee's Brother, who emigrated with a party of 331 Cherokees to Arkansas, in February 1818, assumed the chieftainship of the western Cherokees on the Tahlonteskee's death, in the spring of that year. Source note: Return J. Meigs to John C. Calhoun, February 19, 1818, in FOREMAN [1], 65 ~suzy

Oh, Carolyne....I'm not disagreeing....just trying to be sure....and learn. Joyce Gaston Reece ----- Original Message ----- From: Carolyne Gould To: CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 7:15 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] John Jolly We need to remember we are talking about word usage, not word meaning. The anthropologists and ethnologists referred to wigwam as a dwelling --- usually not one that was a log house, and not a tipi. It is an Algonquin word, one of the first the Europeans would have heard when settling in the colonies. Sam Houston's trading post, located near Fort Gibson in the Cherokee Nation was called "Wigwam Neosho." and he didn't spend much time with the Plains tribes. Unless we can find the original letter and view it for accuracy, we may all just have to agree to disagree. Carolyne :-) >These are the results of a search done at wikipedia.com....according >to this definition it would not apply to the Cherokee of the >southeast and mid west....but I will search for more definitions. >But irregardless, I'm thinking it was a translation 'blooper'. > > > >A wickiup (or wikiup) is domed hut-like dwelling used by the >semi-nomadic Native American tribes of the arid regions of the west >and southwest North America, such as Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, >Utah, Idaho, California, and northern Mexico. > > > >The term wigwam also refers to a similar domed structure. The >difference in usage between wickiup and wigwam is that wickiup >refers to the dwellings of peoples mostly in the American Southwest >while wigwam refers to the dwellings mostly in the American >Northeast. Variation does exist between the terms, however. > >Joyce Gaston Reece > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Carolyne Gould > To: CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 3:21 PM > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] John Jolly > > > A wigwam is a daubed "house" --- not a tipi --- and is an appropriate > term for Eastern Woodlands tribes, and ome others. Even if Jolly was > living in a stick-built house, he may have referred to it as a > wigwam, just as some Plains tribe traditionals today call their home, > their "lodge." > > Carolyne > > > > >In a message dated 12/30/2005 8:15:19 PM Central Standard Time, > >joyk@sc.rr.com writes: > > > >Did he actually call his home his *wigwam*? > > > > > > > > > >I think so because this biography I posted was transcribed from a book > >written by Dub West. > > > >Dub West was the city of Muskogee, Oklahoma's Historian at one time and a > >noted writer of Cherokee material. There may be reprints of his > >books available > >somewhere online, if not the library should have them. His History book > >credits include: Muskogee, I. T. - Queen City of the Southwest, > >Persons and Places > >of Indian Territory, Fort Gibson - Gateway to the West, The Mysteries of > >Sequoyah, Muskogee - From Statehood to Pearl Harbour, Tahlequah and > >the Cherokee > >Nation, Will Rogers - Oklahoma's Gift to America, Legends and Folklore of > >the Cherokees, Among the Cherokees, Oklahoma is OK, Only in >Oklahoma, Turning > >Back the Clock and Outlaws and Peace Officers of Indian Territory > > > >Suzy > > > > > > > > > >==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== > >This list is for Genealogy related conversations > >Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html > >Please Good manors and no flaming others > >For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit > >CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com > > You can also find what you need search the archives > >or to get off this list via web site below > >http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html > >Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com > > > ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== > This list is for Genealogy related conversations > Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html > Please Good manors and no flaming others > For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit > CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com > You can also find what you need search the archives > or to get off this list via web site below > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html > Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com > > > >==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== >This list is for Genealogy related conversations >Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html >Please Good manors and no flaming others >For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit >CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com > You can also find what you need search the archives >or to get off this list via web site below >http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html >Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== This list is for Genealogy related conversations Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html Please Good manors and no flaming others For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com You can also find what you need search the archives or to get off this list via web site below http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com

We need to remember we are talking about word usage, not word meaning. The anthropologists and ethnologists referred to wigwam as a dwelling --- usually not one that was a log house, and not a tipi. It is an Algonquin word, one of the first the Europeans would have heard when settling in the colonies. Sam Houston's trading post, located near Fort Gibson in the Cherokee Nation was called "Wigwam Neosho." and he didn't spend much time with the Plains tribes. Unless we can find the original letter and view it for accuracy, we may all just have to agree to disagree. Carolyne :-) >These are the results of a search done at wikipedia.com....according >to this definition it would not apply to the Cherokee of the >southeast and mid west....but I will search for more definitions. >But irregardless, I'm thinking it was a translation 'blooper'. > > > >A wickiup (or wikiup) is domed hut-like dwelling used by the >semi-nomadic Native American tribes of the arid regions of the west >and southwest North America, such as Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, >Utah, Idaho, California, and northern Mexico. > > > >The term wigwam also refers to a similar domed structure. The >difference in usage between wickiup and wigwam is that wickiup >refers to the dwellings of peoples mostly in the American Southwest >while wigwam refers to the dwellings mostly in the American >Northeast. Variation does exist between the terms, however. > >Joyce Gaston Reece > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Carolyne Gould > To: CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 3:21 PM > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] John Jolly > > > A wigwam is a daubed "house" --- not a tipi --- and is an appropriate > term for Eastern Woodlands tribes, and ome others. Even if Jolly was > living in a stick-built house, he may have referred to it as a > wigwam, just as some Plains tribe traditionals today call their home, > their "lodge." > > Carolyne > > > > >In a message dated 12/30/2005 8:15:19 PM Central Standard Time, > >joyk@sc.rr.com writes: > > > >Did he actually call his home his *wigwam*? > > > > > > > > > >I think so because this biography I posted was transcribed from a book > >written by Dub West. > > > >Dub West was the city of Muskogee, Oklahoma's Historian at one time and a > >noted writer of Cherokee material. There may be reprints of his > >books available > >somewhere online, if not the library should have them. His History book > >credits include: Muskogee, I. T. - Queen City of the Southwest, > >Persons and Places > >of Indian Territory, Fort Gibson - Gateway to the West, The Mysteries of > >Sequoyah, Muskogee - From Statehood to Pearl Harbour, Tahlequah and > >the Cherokee > >Nation, Will Rogers - Oklahoma's Gift to America, Legends and Folklore of > >the Cherokees, Among the Cherokees, Oklahoma is OK, Only in >Oklahoma, Turning > >Back the Clock and Outlaws and Peace Officers of Indian Territory > > > >Suzy > > > > > > > > > >==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== > >This list is for Genealogy related conversations > >Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html > >Please Good manors and no flaming others > >For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit > >CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com > > You can also find what you need search the archives > >or to get off this list via web site below > >http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html > >Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com > > > ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== > This list is for Genealogy related conversations > Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html > Please Good manors and no flaming others > For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit > CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com > You can also find what you need search the archives > or to get off this list via web site below > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html > Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com > > > >==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== >This list is for Genealogy related conversations >Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html >Please Good manors and no flaming others >For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit >CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com > You can also find what you need search the archives >or to get off this list via web site below >http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html >Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com

In a message dated 12/31/2005 3:54:23 PM Central Standard Time, jgreece@earthlink.net writes: But irregardless, I'm thinking it was a translation 'blooper' The material that Dub West was referencing was an Archived letter, written by John Jolly, to Andrew Jackson. It is my understanding the letter was written in English, and that Jolly used the term wigwam. Suzy

The World Book Encyclopedia Dictionary wigwam n. a. any hut of poles covered with bark, mats, or skins, made by American Indians as the tepee. b. a hut used especially by the Algonkian Indians of the region of the Great Lakes and eastward, made of bark, mats, or skins laid over a dome-shaped frame of poles. ----- Original Message ----- From: Carolyne Gould To: CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 3:21 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] John Jolly A wigwam is a daubed "house" --- not a tipi --- and is an appropriate term for Eastern Woodlands tribes, and ome others. Even if Jolly was living in a stick-built house, he may have referred to it as a wigwam, just as some Plains tribe traditionals today call their home, their "lodge." Carolyne

These are the results of a search done at wikipedia.com....according to this definition it would not apply to the Cherokee of the southeast and mid west....but I will search for more definitions. But irregardless, I'm thinking it was a translation 'blooper'. A wickiup (or wikiup) is domed hut-like dwelling used by the semi-nomadic Native American tribes of the arid regions of the west and southwest North America, such as Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Utah, Idaho, California, and northern Mexico. The term wigwam also refers to a similar domed structure. The difference in usage between wickiup and wigwam is that wickiup refers to the dwellings of peoples mostly in the American Southwest while wigwam refers to the dwellings mostly in the American Northeast. Variation does exist between the terms, however. Joyce Gaston Reece ----- Original Message ----- From: Carolyne Gould To: CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 3:21 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] John Jolly A wigwam is a daubed "house" --- not a tipi --- and is an appropriate term for Eastern Woodlands tribes, and ome others. Even if Jolly was living in a stick-built house, he may have referred to it as a wigwam, just as some Plains tribe traditionals today call their home, their "lodge." Carolyne >In a message dated 12/30/2005 8:15:19 PM Central Standard Time, >joyk@sc.rr.com writes: > >Did he actually call his home his *wigwam*? > > > > >I think so because this biography I posted was transcribed from a book >written by Dub West. > >Dub West was the city of Muskogee, Oklahoma's Historian at one time and a >noted writer of Cherokee material. There may be reprints of his >books available >somewhere online, if not the library should have them. His History book >credits include: Muskogee, I. T. - Queen City of the Southwest, >Persons and Places >of Indian Territory, Fort Gibson - Gateway to the West, The Mysteries of >Sequoyah, Muskogee - From Statehood to Pearl Harbour, Tahlequah and >the Cherokee >Nation, Will Rogers - Oklahoma's Gift to America, Legends and Folklore of >the Cherokees, Among the Cherokees, Oklahoma is OK, Only in Oklahoma, Turning >Back the Clock and Outlaws and Peace Officers of Indian Territory > >Suzy > > > > >==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== >This list is for Genealogy related conversations >Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html >Please Good manors and no flaming others >For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit >CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com > You can also find what you need search the archives >or to get off this list via web site below >http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html >Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== This list is for Genealogy related conversations Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html Please Good manors and no flaming others For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com You can also find what you need search the archives or to get off this list via web site below http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com

In a message dated 12/31/2005 11:42:47 AM Central Standard Time, jgreece@earthlink.net writes: Thanks for a good post. I have the same question as Joy did. Why would he say wigwam? The Cherokee never lived in them. They lived in wood or earthen daubed dwellings. These are fully described in many writings of the Cherokee. I know that the term wigwam is not usually attached to the Cherokee:) BUT, Dub West was referencing a letter written by John Jolly to Andrew Jackson, dated December 3, 1829. I will assume that West transcribed a letter he found. I don't know for sure which Archive the letter was found in, but he cites the date as 12/3/1829, and I bet that could be found in the National Archives. Suzy

In a message dated 12/30/2005 8:15:19 PM Central Standard Time, joyk@sc.rr.com writes: Did he actually call his home his *wigwam*? I think so because this biography I posted was transcribed from a book written by Dub West. Dub West was the city of Muskogee, Oklahoma's Historian at one time and a noted writer of Cherokee material. There may be reprints of his books available somewhere online, if not the library should have them. His History book credits include: Muskogee, I. T. - Queen City of the Southwest, Persons and Places of Indian Territory, Fort Gibson - Gateway to the West, The Mysteries of Sequoyah, Muskogee - From Statehood to Pearl Harbour, Tahlequah and the Cherokee Nation, Will Rogers - Oklahoma's Gift to America, Legends and Folklore of the Cherokees, Among the Cherokees, Oklahoma is OK, Only in Oklahoma, Turning Back the Clock and Outlaws and Peace Officers of Indian Territory Suzy

A wigwam is a daubed "house" --- not a tipi --- and is an appropriate term for Eastern Woodlands tribes, and ome others. Even if Jolly was living in a stick-built house, he may have referred to it as a wigwam, just as some Plains tribe traditionals today call their home, their "lodge." Carolyne >In a message dated 12/30/2005 8:15:19 PM Central Standard Time, >joyk@sc.rr.com writes: > >Did he actually call his home his *wigwam*? > > > > >I think so because this biography I posted was transcribed from a book >written by Dub West. > >Dub West was the city of Muskogee, Oklahoma's Historian at one time and a >noted writer of Cherokee material. There may be reprints of his >books available >somewhere online, if not the library should have them. His History book >credits include: Muskogee, I. T. - Queen City of the Southwest, >Persons and Places >of Indian Territory, Fort Gibson - Gateway to the West, The Mysteries of >Sequoyah, Muskogee - From Statehood to Pearl Harbour, Tahlequah and >the Cherokee >Nation, Will Rogers - Oklahoma's Gift to America, Legends and Folklore of >the Cherokees, Among the Cherokees, Oklahoma is OK, Only in Oklahoma, Turning >Back the Clock and Outlaws and Peace Officers of Indian Territory > >Suzy > > > > >==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== >This list is for Genealogy related conversations >Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html >Please Good manors and no flaming others >For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit >CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com > You can also find what you need search the archives >or to get off this list via web site below >http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html >Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com

Thanks for a good post. I have the same question as Joy did. Why would he say wigwam? The Cherokee never lived in them. They lived in wood or earthen daubed dwellings. These are fully described in many writings of the Cherokee. The only thing I can figure is that the word was mis-translated from Cherokee word for home or house to wigwam by someone who didn't know any better. One would need to check the source of this quote, I'd think. Joyce Gaston Reece ----- Original Message ----- From: Walknstx@aol.com To: CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 8:50 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] John Jolly ~~page 6 & 7, from "Among the Cherokees," by Dub West, c 1981; West was an early Historian for the City of Muskogee, Oklahoma... JOHN JOLLY (Oo-Loo-Te-Ka) led 331 Cherokees including 108 warriors west to join the Western Cherokees. Sequoyah was among this group. Jolly settled on the east bank of the Illinois River about one mile above its mouth, naming the site Tahlonteskee after his brother. Upon the death of Tahlonteskee, he became Chief of the Western Cherokees. One of his first acts after becoming Chief was to seek peace with the Osage. When Thomas Nuttall stopped among the Cherokees in 1819, he wrote of Jolly, "Being a half Indian, and dressed as a white man, I should have scarcely have distinguished him from an American except by his language. He was very plain and unassuming in his dress and manners; a Franklin amongst his countrymen and affectionately called the Beloved Father. I am told that his word is inviolable and that his generosity knew no bounds but the limitation of his means." He and Captain John Rogers gave permission to missionaries Alfred Finney. Cephas Washburn, J. Orr, and Jacob Hitchcock to select a site for Dwight Mission with the first service being held May 13, 1821. Alfred Finney later wrote a letter saying that Chief John Jolly had made frequent calls asking when the school would begin and that he hoped the Western Cherokees would become as advanced those in the "Old Nation." In March of 1829 Sam Houston came up the Arkansas River in the Steamboat Facility and went to Chief Jolly's home. He had previously been adopted by Jolly, his "Indian Father" and given the name of Col-on-ah or the Raven. Jolly wrote a letter to Andrew Jackson December 3, 1829, as follows: "My son the Raven came to me last spring. I was glad to meet him and my heart embraced him when he arrived at my wigwam; he rested with me and was as my own son. He has walked straight, and my heart has rejoiced in him." Alfred Finney in making a report making a report of the work of Dwight Mission in 1838 wrote, "John Jolly, who is most influential, talks to his people and tells them to 'hear good.' He says his place will always be open for them to occupy on the Sabbath." As Chief of the Western Cherokees, Jolly signed the permit to establish the Park Hill Press. Chief John Jolly died in December 1838. ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== This list is for Genealogy related conversations Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html Please Good manors and no flaming others For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com You can also find what you need search the archives or to get off this list via web site below http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com

Did he actually call his home his *wigwam*? Joy ----- Original Message ----- From: Walknstx@aol.com To: CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 8:50 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] John Jolly ~~page 6 & 7, from "Among the Cherokees," by Dub West, c 1981; West was an early Historian for the City of Muskogee, Oklahoma... Jolly wrote a letter to Andrew Jackson December 3, 1829, as follows: "My son the Raven came to me last spring. I was glad to meet him and my heart embraced him when he arrived at my wigwam; he rested with me and was as my own son. He has walked straight, and my heart has rejoiced in him."

~~page 6 & 7, from "Among the Cherokees," by Dub West, c 1981; West was an early Historian for the City of Muskogee, Oklahoma... JOHN JOLLY (Oo-Loo-Te-Ka) led 331 Cherokees including 108 warriors west to join the Western Cherokees. Sequoyah was among this group. Jolly settled on the east bank of the Illinois River about one mile above its mouth, naming the site Tahlonteskee after his brother. Upon the death of Tahlonteskee, he became Chief of the Western Cherokees. One of his first acts after becoming Chief was to seek peace with the Osage. When Thomas Nuttall stopped among the Cherokees in 1819, he wrote of Jolly, "Being a half Indian, and dressed as a white man, I should have scarcely have distinguished him from an American except by his language. He was very plain and unassuming in his dress and manners; a Franklin amongst his countrymen and affectionately called the Beloved Father. I am told that his word is inviolable and that his generosity knew no bounds but the limitation of his means." He and Captain John Rogers gave permission to missionaries Alfred Finney. Cephas Washburn, J. Orr, and Jacob Hitchcock to select a site for Dwight Mission with the first service being held May 13, 1821. Alfred Finney later wrote a letter saying that Chief John Jolly had made frequent calls asking when the school would begin and that he hoped the Western Cherokees would become as advanced those in the "Old Nation." In March of 1829 Sam Houston came up the Arkansas River in the Steamboat Facility and went to Chief Jolly's home. He had previously been adopted by Jolly, his "Indian Father" and given the name of Col-on-ah or the Raven. Jolly wrote a letter to Andrew Jackson December 3, 1829, as follows: "My son the Raven came to me last spring. I was glad to meet him and my heart embraced him when he arrived at my wigwam; he rested with me and was as my own son. He has walked straight, and my heart has rejoiced in him." Alfred Finney in making a report making a report of the work of Dwight Mission in 1838 wrote, "John Jolly, who is most influential, talks to his people and tells them to 'hear good.' He says his place will always be open for them to occupy on the Sabbath." As Chief of the Western Cherokees, Jolly signed the permit to establish the Park Hill Press. Chief John Jolly died in December 1838.

THanks, Grandma, this is a great site! I'm so happy you found family here. There are Jordans, but not any of mine that I can connect to. Oh, and if it doesn't work for anyone, just add the "." before the "com" and it works great! ;o) Jana ----- Original Message ----- From: <GLewis2035@aol.com> To: <CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 6:51 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] Re: Vann Family Research > > In a message dated 12/30/2005 6:45:02 PM Central Standard Time, > sageja@sbcglobal.net writes: > > I have just discovered my Vann family is in fact decendants of William > Vaughan and that is why the research on this family has been so difficult. > try > thi web link. _http://www.vaughanpioneers.freeserverscom/_ > (http://www.vaughanpioneers.freeserverscom/) Try clicking on the link > and see if > you can get there. There is so good material and it is definately > relatives of > our Cherokee Vann people. grandma > > > > > ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== > This list is for Genealogy related conversations > Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html > Please Good manors and no flaming others > For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit > CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com > You can also find what you need search the archives > or to get off this list via web site below > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html > Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.9/216 - Release Date: 12/29/2005 > >

In a message dated 12/30/2005 6:45:02 PM Central Standard Time, sageja@sbcglobal.net writes: I have just discovered my Vann family is in fact decendants of William Vaughan and that is why the research on this family has been so difficult. try thi web link. _http://www.vaughanpioneers.freeserverscom/_ (http://www.vaughanpioneers.freeserverscom/) Try clicking on the link and see if you can get there. There is so good material and it is definately relatives of our Cherokee Vann people. grandma

I couldn't access the web link......... I have been researching a Ben Vann. .............His father was Billy Vann born 1790.. Ben married Malinda Linnie Catcher (Ka-yoo-geh) Daughter of Tee Kah Noe Skee and Susie Estey. Ben and Linnie had 2 children.....Thomas and Aley Vann........ Born about 1848.... Sharon sageja@msn.com GLewis2035@aol.com wrote: I have just discovered my Vann family is in fact decendants of William Vaughan and that is why the research on this family has been so difficult. try thi web link. _http://www.vaughanpioneers.freeservers.com/_ (http://www.vaughanpioneers.freeservers.com/) grandma

I have just discovered my Vann family is in fact decendants of William Vaughan and that is why the research on this family has been so difficult. try thi web link. _http://www.vaughanpioneers.freeservers.com/_ (http://www.vaughanpioneers.freeservers.com/) grandma

Me too becausssse Jan 2 2006 its back to genealogy har har har <G> <smile> Dan M www.wvi.com/~wb http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Genealogy_Chat ----- Original Message ----- From: <GLewis2035@aol.com> To: <CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 12:49 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] Happy Holidays to All > > In a message dated 12/28/2005 1:54:24 PM Central Standard Time, wb@wvi.com > writes: > > New Year around the corner. > I hope the PC clocks keep on ticking <G> > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > --------------------------------------------------------I have already > promised myself it will be a better year. I am going into it with a positive > attitude. =8>) > grandma > > > ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== > This list is for Genealogy related conversations > Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html > Please Good manors and no flaming others > For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit > CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com > You can also find what you need search the archives > or to get off this list via web site below > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html > Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com

John Jolly was with the group that Tahlonteeskee lead in 1809 into Arkansas. Tahlonteeskee died, if memory serves me correctly apx 1819. Jolly then became chief of that group. He was very prominent in the life of general/Governor Sam Houston...both before and after the migration. You can read much about him in the biographies of Governor Houston. Joyce Gaston Reece ----- Original Message ----- From: Carolyne Gould To: CherokeeGene-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 9:53 PM Subject: [CherokeeGeneCommunity] John Jolly Does anyone know what happened to John Jolly --- the treaty signer? All I can find is he died "after 1826." In researching my own lines (not JOLLY), I may have stumbled across some info on him; but, I don't want to expound on my theory and look totally ignorant. I may just be looking at a different John Jolly. Carolyne ==== CherokeeGene Mailing List ==== This list is for Genealogy related conversations Your supporting website http://www.wvi.com/~wb/Cherokee1.html Please Good manors and no flaming others For Culture, ridges; bumps; skin tones; or Language lessons Please visit CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com You can also find what you need search the archives or to get off this list via web site below http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CherokeeGene.html Listowner = CherokeeGene-admin@rootsweb.com