http://www.cbc.ca/news/aboriginal/new-era-of-genetic-research-include-more-i ndigenous-1.3527133 New era of genetic research must include more indigenous people, says Keolu Fox Joy

Joy - all your links are breaking. Maybe if you use * insert hyper link* in your mail prg might help? * On 04/10/2016 07:28 AM, Joy King via wrote: > http://www.cbc.ca/news/aboriginal/new-era-of-genetic-research-include-more-i > ndigenous-1.3527133 > > > > New era of genetic research must include more indigenous people, says Keolu > Fox > > > > Joy > > > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > Cherokee genealogy; certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > please take non genealogy to Cherokee@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHEROKEEGENE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Didn't they find little people in this country too? If they did, wouldn't that stand to reason that they could have been bred out like the Neanderthals? There are many things that do need to be left in the past, but.........we can't learn about our past or where we originated if we don't bring that stuff to the present. :-D Did they ever find the connection between any of the tribes & those they have discovered were "first" here? I thought i had read something about that. LOL not all family gets a long, there are some arguing ;-) well, disease had to be in the ground before people. I mean look at Parvo, and many other things that stay in the ground for years that stays in the ground, so we've got disease, we have unsanitary practices.....which definitely helps spread things around.....Don't think the Europeans were all that great on sanitation either. Its all very interesting (to me), because even today in such modern times, we have disease issues. Some have become superbugs or have gotten resistant to many things......I wonder how many have changed(diseased) from what they originally were. The kids & I have talked about creating a time line of sorts to try & follow the progress of the human creation/population along with our ancestors.... On 4/9/2016 10:39 PM, James via wrote: > The past; its always an ongoing study. > Seems daily contradictions of the day before. > As for reality, well, I guess that depends on who believes whom. > There are many things in the past. > And, thats where it needs to stay far as people getting along in the > present. > Indians? Or who? Where did every one here come from, and when? > People been at battle every since there were more than one. > Now, they battle about who knows more about the past, or who is the best > at it. > Learning about the past is one thing, and still living it, that another. > As people, we need to promote getting along, and as you follow your > ancestors and your dna and where people came from in the beginnings, you > will note, there is a possibility we are all related, so why not act > like it and we wont have to follow faults. Indians talked about little > people, so did Irish and others. > People dont just bring a disease like mail, its a follower. Its every > where. > Also, its not just the people. and in those old times, people used their > hands for many things before eating. Not knowing then about germs easy > way to get sick. > *its a world event. > >

Both are interesting sites, definitely. What is it with scientist constantly comparing humans to monkey's or assuming because the ancient human like creatures were stupid because of their small brain size? But these small humanish creatures could also be part of the reason why people up until the 40's weren't much taller than 5 foot (in most cases) And why is it always the European's fault that the original American's were wiped out? Yeah, some brought disease, but there's still no concrete proof that its just 1 race of people's fault or totally human's fault. What about the disease's that they said were here before the European's/vikings....how'd it get here? Obviously, disease & other things were here to wipe out human type people as well as animals. On 4/9/2016 4:39 PM, James via wrote: > https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/feb/21/hobbit-rewriting-history-human-race > Interesting >

The past; its always an ongoing study. Seems daily contradictions of the day before. As for reality, well, I guess that depends on who believes whom. There are many things in the past. And, thats where it needs to stay far as people getting along in the present. Indians? Or who? Where did every one here come from, and when? People been at battle every since there were more than one. Now, they battle about who knows more about the past, or who is the best at it. Learning about the past is one thing, and still living it, that another. As people, we need to promote getting along, and as you follow your ancestors and your dna and where people came from in the beginnings, you will note, there is a possibility we are all related, so why not act like it and we wont have to follow faults. Indians talked about little people, so did Irish and others. People dont just bring a disease like mail, its a follower. Its every where. Also, its not just the people. and in those old times, people used their hands for many things before eating. Not knowing then about germs easy way to get sick. *its a world event. On 04/09/2016 08:58 PM, Alli via wrote: > Both are interesting sites, definitely. > > What is it with scientist constantly comparing humans to monkey's or > assuming because the ancient human like creatures were stupid because of > their small brain size? But these small humanish creatures could also be > part of the reason why people up until the 40's weren't much taller than > 5 foot (in most cases) > > And why is it always the European's fault that the original American's > were wiped out? Yeah, some brought disease, but there's still no > concrete proof that its just 1 race of people's fault or totally human's > fault. > > What about the disease's that they said were here before the > European's/vikings....how'd it get here? Obviously, disease & other > things were here to wipe out human type people as well as animals. > > On 4/9/2016 4:39 PM, James via wrote: >> https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/feb/21/hobbit-rewriting-history-human-race >> Interesting >> > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > Cherokee genealogy; certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > please take non genealogy to Cherokee@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHEROKEEGENE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/feb/21/hobbit-rewriting-history-human-race Interesting * On 04/01/2016 12:41 PM, Joy King via wrote: > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3519372/Were-early-Americans- > wiped-diseased-European-migrants-DNA-mummies-shows-native-genes-vanished-Spa > nish-arrived-15th-century.html > >

wow..........102 That's amazing...... would like to learn more about him....... On 4/7/2016 8:13 AM, James via wrote: > https://www.facebook.com/topic/Joe-Medicine-Crow/109585269067477?source=whrt&position=8&trqid=6270100740192698263 > > Link > <https://www.facebook.com/topic/Joe-Medicine-Crow/109585269067477?source=whrt&position=8&trqid=6270100740192698263> > > Just something to talk about. > * > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > Cherokee genealogy; certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > please take non genealogy to Cherokee@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHEROKEEGENE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

https://www.facebook.com/topic/Joe-Medicine-Crow/109585269067477?source=whrt&position=8&trqid=6270100740192698263 Link <https://www.facebook.com/topic/Joe-Medicine-Crow/109585269067477?source=whrt&position=8&trqid=6270100740192698263> Just something to talk about. *

This message interested me because the family married into my family. I’m not sure who but I do have the info. I believe they married into a Allsbrooks/Scarborough line. (My mom’s cousin) She was the sister to my grandfather and their father was married to a Glass. A name that I saw on a NA list. I wished I’d be more nosy than I was when I was a child., though grandma told me that little pitchers have big ears. I was listening to their talk and they put me outside. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Don Ott via Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 11:10 AM To: Susan Reynolds; cherokeegene@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] Nathaniel Wilber Susan Thank you so much for the diligent efforts you put into the answer to my question. I have been trying to follow much of the information you provided, sorry for the delay in replying. This family was very distantly related to my wife through the Atkinson and Henry lines. I suspect that these folks may have come from the Canadian side of the border and have no idea if he was some sort of a Chief or not. I have helped define the "Benge Trail Of Tears" and get it properly marked. I live on this trail and have always been told that some of my ancestors may have married into that group. I have not been able to document that and DNA does not seem to justify the story. This 1838 march began in Alabama and most of my folks came from Kentucky. As to your comment about Ott relations, I have researched 17 different groups of the Ott family that I have not been able to tie together. Although I have been to Switzerland, Germany and Alsace, records on the 1200, 1300 and 1400 time frame are difficult. The earliest Ott I found was born in the 1200's in Switzerland, I think that is about the time that they started giving a last name to a family. Population had expanded so that one name was not enough to sort folks out. From your information I expect that your relatives came into the US through the South Carolina ports and that is the line that Mel Ott the New York Giant baseball great "Hall of Famer" came from. By the way, Mel Ott, The Little Giant of Baseball, is a good read, it is a book by Fred Stein, published in 1999 by McFarland and Co. of Jefferson North Carolina and London. ISBN 0-7864-0658-5. Thanks again for your diligence and expert research report. Don Ott -----Original Message----- From: Susan Reynolds via Sent: Sunday, April 3, 2016 3:30 PM To: CherokeeGene Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] Nathaniel Wilber Hello, Don! Looking at the posted family trees on this line, I'm inclined to take them with a huge grain of salt. Some of them say Cherokee Land, Grant, Minnesota. That looks suspiciously like it should read land grant in Minnesota. Grant County MN was formed in 1868 and named for Ulysses S. Grant. The city of Grant in Washington County, MN was also named for U.S. Grant, so it was not formed until after the Civil War, unless it was simply renamed. I can't find a history to confirm or deny. If he was born on a land grant in MN, that would not have been an American grant. MN belonged to the French at the time in question, so you would need to find where their records for the area are archived - if any existed. I would think they might be in Toronto. The French ceded this possession to Spain in 1762. In 1783, the Treaty of Paris that ended the Revolution gave the part of modern MN east of the Mississippi River to the United States. MN reverted to French control and was then part of the Louisiana Purchase in 1803. I haven't looked into what names applied under the Spanish and French, so I can't tell you if they are different or not. If Nathaniel WILBER was Cherokee, it is highly unlikely he was born in MN. In this area you should probably be looking at the Dakota, Ojibwe, or Anishinaabe. An occasional Cherokee MIGHT have drifted into the area, but the Cherokee domain was in the modern states of TN, GA, AL, NC, a little in SC. Kat looks like the English nickname for Katherine, not a Cherokee name (some of those trees show Kat as the Cherokee Chief and this would not have been. The women's honorifics would have been Beloved Woman, possibly War Woman, but not chief in that era). A lot of the mythological Cherokee genealogies give locations with modern locations that did not exist at that time. One case in point is Doublehead's birth place. Doublehead was born around 1744. In accounts of the Yahoo Falls Massacre (that I have proven as fictitious with documentation), his birth place is given as Stearns, McCreary County, KY. Stearns did not exist until 1902 when Justus S. STEARNS founded it as the company town for the Stearns Coal and Lumber Company in an area that was in Wayne County at that time. McCreary County was formed in 1912 from portions of Whitley, Pulaski, and Wayne Counties. It was KY's last county. The Cherokee hunted in what is now KY, but did not actually live there (at least by this time). Cherokee hunters did have long term camps there, sometimes lasting a few years which groups of hunters rotated in and out of, but no permanent towns. While there is an arguable case that Doublehead could have been born there when his parents hunted in KY and stayed in a camp where his mother birthed him away from home, this too is unlikely. Women did not often accompany the hunters, except on occasion to prepare food and perform women's tasks. A pregnant woman would not have accompanied the hunters at all. Theda Perdue, in Cherokee Women: Gender and Culture Change 1700-1835, pages 30-31, states that the Cherokees believed pregnant women to be extremely powerful both naturally and spiritually (what whites understand as powerful medicine!) and while they did not go into seclusion as they normally did monthly, they still limited their activities. They didn't go to ceremonies, visit sick people, observe ball games. Cherokees avoided any paths pregnant women walked on and did not eat anything the prepared. Their presence would have contaminated the hunt. Perdue notes that evidence indicates their men also limited their activities and did not fish, hunt, or even fight during their wives pregnancies. Since Doublehead's father was Tifftoya of Tanassee, also known as Willenawah or Great Eagle,this argues for Tanassee as Doublehead's birth place. In 1720, the Cherokee had not yet converted to centralized government and each town had its own chiefs - Peace or white chief and War or red chief. In 1730, when he took seven representative Cherokee "headmen" to England to meet George II, Alexander CUMMING had declared Moytoy emperor or King of the Cherokees, but this was a European construct that did not accurately depict Cherokee social and civil organization. It was strictly for CUMMING's "diplomatic" purposes. The Cherokees did not coalesce into a centralized form until the late 1780s and early 1790s. Even then, they did not have elected chiefs until 1828, they had chiefs chosen more by acclamation. Nathaniel WILBER could not have been Chief of the Cherokee Nation because Cherokee Nation did not come into existence during his lifetime and the position did not yet exist as far as the Cherokees were concern, regardless of CUMMING's machinations. I don't find anything in the various records I have available, which are many, that show any name close to WILBER that match yours. There was a Nathan P. WILBER that married a Shawnee woman named Sarah H. "Dean" BLUEJACKET in the Dawes Commission Records. They lived in Cherokee Nation and appear on Cherokee by blood card 3312, although she was Shawnee. He was white and born in 1848. There are two Wilber/Wilbur Eastern Cherokee Applications, Lula and Lena Josie, but these are married names and they were also born in the 19th century, not the 18th. Lula was from St. Louis and Lena from Peters, TN. Lena's maiden name was LEDFORD and they have Cherokee ties, but I don't have any details of just how at the moment. The closest name I find is in Jim Hicks's Cherokee Lineages website - Wilburn - http://www.genealogy.com/ftm/h/i/c/James-R-Hicks-VA/BOOK-0001/0021-0033.html#IND70384REF23. In 1788 Sarah Hicks, the daughter of Na-Ye-Hi CONRAD and Nathan HICKS married a man surnamed WILBURN, given name unknown at this time. Sarah was sister to Charles Renatus HICKS and William Abraham HICKS. Charles Renatus was for some years Assistant Principal Chief. In early January 1827 Principal Chief Pathkiller died and Charles R. HICKS rose to the Principal Chief position. Sadly, he died 2 weeks later on 20 January 1827. William Abraham HICKS, was also a chief, but not Principal Chief. He was defeated by John ROSS in the election of 1828, the first under the Cherokee Constitution of 1827. He never recovered from the defeat. Every family story has at least a kernel of truth buried in it somewhere. I suspect the story of Nathaniel Wilber is wrapped up in Sarah HICKS's story. It looks to me like the story MIGHT go this way: Nathaniel WILBER (read this as WILBURN) was born in an unknown location about 1720. Sometime between 1735 and 1745 he married a woman name Kat and had a daughter named Frances Elizabeth about 1745 in Wayne County, TN (this is outside the Cherokee domain) and a son sometime before 1756, when he died in TN. This son then married Sarah HICKS, but there is no record of any children born to them. He was not a chief, however, but brother-in-law to chiefs. ​OR​Unknown given name WILBER (read this as WILBURN) was born in an unknown location about 1720. Sometime between 1735 and 1745 he married a woman name Kat and had a daughter named Frances Elizabeth about 1745 in Wayne County, TN (this is outside the Cherokee domain) and a son sometime before 1756, when he died in TN. This son then married Sarah HICKS, but there is no record of any children born to them. Somewhere along the way, Sarah's father's given name NATHAN became conflated with his son-in-law's father's given name, as did her brother, Charles's position as Principal Chief. ​Of course, the Nathan P. WILBER on Cherokee card 3312 could also be the source of the story. People often see only the cards and misunderstand what they mean. Census card 3312 does not show that Sarah BLUEJACKET was Shawnee. The card also does not indicate that Nathan P. WILBER was originally accepted for enrollment by intermarriage and subsequently struck from the rolls in 1907. This information is only found in the Dawes Application Packet itself. Sadly, many of these stories are wishes rather than facts. BTW, I have OTTs in my line in AL, MS, that connect to my Tynes lines. If you have people in these areas, feel free to contact me off list and I'll be happy to chat about them. Kindest regards, Susan Reynolds On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 9:51 AM, Don Ott via <cherokeegene@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Recent family research found Nathaniel Wilber 1720-1756, “Cherokee > Chief” born Land, Grant, Minnesota. His wife was called Kat. Not finding > much on this line. Any help appreciated. > Don > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > Cherokee genealogy; certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and > sort fact from (fiction). > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > please take non genealogy to Cherokee@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CHEROKEEGENE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message =====*NOTICE THIS*===== Cherokee genealogy; certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). List archive http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene please take non genealogy to Cherokee@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHEROKEEGENE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message =====*NOTICE THIS*===== Cherokee genealogy; certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). List archive http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene please take non genealogy to Cherokee@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHEROKEEGENE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Susan Thank you so much for the diligent efforts you put into the answer to my question. I have been trying to follow much of the information you provided, sorry for the delay in replying. This family was very distantly related to my wife through the Atkinson and Henry lines. I suspect that these folks may have come from the Canadian side of the border and have no idea if he was some sort of a Chief or not. I have helped define the "Benge Trail Of Tears" and get it properly marked. I live on this trail and have always been told that some of my ancestors may have married into that group. I have not been able to document that and DNA does not seem to justify the story. This 1838 march began in Alabama and most of my folks came from Kentucky. As to your comment about Ott relations, I have researched 17 different groups of the Ott family that I have not been able to tie together. Although I have been to Switzerland, Germany and Alsace, records on the 1200, 1300 and 1400 time frame are difficult. The earliest Ott I found was born in the 1200's in Switzerland, I think that is about the time that they started giving a last name to a family. Population had expanded so that one name was not enough to sort folks out. From your information I expect that your relatives came into the US through the South Carolina ports and that is the line that Mel Ott the New York Giant baseball great "Hall of Famer" came from. By the way, Mel Ott, The Little Giant of Baseball, is a good read, it is a book by Fred Stein, published in 1999 by McFarland and Co. of Jefferson North Carolina and London. ISBN 0-7864-0658-5. Thanks again for your diligence and expert research report. Don Ott -----Original Message----- From: Susan Reynolds via Sent: Sunday, April 3, 2016 3:30 PM To: CherokeeGene Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] Nathaniel Wilber Hello, Don! Looking at the posted family trees on this line, I'm inclined to take them with a huge grain of salt. Some of them say Cherokee Land, Grant, Minnesota. That looks suspiciously like it should read land grant in Minnesota. Grant County MN was formed in 1868 and named for Ulysses S. Grant. The city of Grant in Washington County, MN was also named for U.S. Grant, so it was not formed until after the Civil War, unless it was simply renamed. I can't find a history to confirm or deny. If he was born on a land grant in MN, that would not have been an American grant. MN belonged to the French at the time in question, so you would need to find where their records for the area are archived - if any existed. I would think they might be in Toronto. The French ceded this possession to Spain in 1762. In 1783, the Treaty of Paris that ended the Revolution gave the part of modern MN east of the Mississippi River to the United States. MN reverted to French control and was then part of the Louisiana Purchase in 1803. I haven't looked into what names applied under the Spanish and French, so I can't tell you if they are different or not. If Nathaniel WILBER was Cherokee, it is highly unlikely he was born in MN. In this area you should probably be looking at the Dakota, Ojibwe, or Anishinaabe. An occasional Cherokee MIGHT have drifted into the area, but the Cherokee domain was in the modern states of TN, GA, AL, NC, a little in SC. Kat looks like the English nickname for Katherine, not a Cherokee name (some of those trees show Kat as the Cherokee Chief and this would not have been. The women's honorifics would have been Beloved Woman, possibly War Woman, but not chief in that era). A lot of the mythological Cherokee genealogies give locations with modern locations that did not exist at that time. One case in point is Doublehead's birth place. Doublehead was born around 1744. In accounts of the Yahoo Falls Massacre (that I have proven as fictitious with documentation), his birth place is given as Stearns, McCreary County, KY. Stearns did not exist until 1902 when Justus S. STEARNS founded it as the company town for the Stearns Coal and Lumber Company in an area that was in Wayne County at that time. McCreary County was formed in 1912 from portions of Whitley, Pulaski, and Wayne Counties. It was KY's last county. The Cherokee hunted in what is now KY, but did not actually live there (at least by this time). Cherokee hunters did have long term camps there, sometimes lasting a few years which groups of hunters rotated in and out of, but no permanent towns. While there is an arguable case that Doublehead could have been born there when his parents hunted in KY and stayed in a camp where his mother birthed him away from home, this too is unlikely. Women did not often accompany the hunters, except on occasion to prepare food and perform women's tasks. A pregnant woman would not have accompanied the hunters at all. Theda Perdue, in Cherokee Women: Gender and Culture Change 1700-1835, pages 30-31, states that the Cherokees believed pregnant women to be extremely powerful both naturally and spiritually (what whites understand as powerful medicine!) and while they did not go into seclusion as they normally did monthly, they still limited their activities. They didn't go to ceremonies, visit sick people, observe ball games. Cherokees avoided any paths pregnant women walked on and did not eat anything the prepared. Their presence would have contaminated the hunt. Perdue notes that evidence indicates their men also limited their activities and did not fish, hunt, or even fight during their wives pregnancies. Since Doublehead's father was Tifftoya of Tanassee, also known as Willenawah or Great Eagle,this argues for Tanassee as Doublehead's birth place. In 1720, the Cherokee had not yet converted to centralized government and each town had its own chiefs - Peace or white chief and War or red chief. In 1730, when he took seven representative Cherokee "headmen" to England to meet George II, Alexander CUMMING had declared Moytoy emperor or King of the Cherokees, but this was a European construct that did not accurately depict Cherokee social and civil organization. It was strictly for CUMMING's "diplomatic" purposes. The Cherokees did not coalesce into a centralized form until the late 1780s and early 1790s. Even then, they did not have elected chiefs until 1828, they had chiefs chosen more by acclamation. Nathaniel WILBER could not have been Chief of the Cherokee Nation because Cherokee Nation did not come into existence during his lifetime and the position did not yet exist as far as the Cherokees were concern, regardless of CUMMING's machinations. I don't find anything in the various records I have available, which are many, that show any name close to WILBER that match yours. There was a Nathan P. WILBER that married a Shawnee woman named Sarah H. "Dean" BLUEJACKET in the Dawes Commission Records. They lived in Cherokee Nation and appear on Cherokee by blood card 3312, although she was Shawnee. He was white and born in 1848. There are two Wilber/Wilbur Eastern Cherokee Applications, Lula and Lena Josie, but these are married names and they were also born in the 19th century, not the 18th. Lula was from St. Louis and Lena from Peters, TN. Lena's maiden name was LEDFORD and they have Cherokee ties, but I don't have any details of just how at the moment. The closest name I find is in Jim Hicks's Cherokee Lineages website - Wilburn - http://www.genealogy.com/ftm/h/i/c/James-R-Hicks-VA/BOOK-0001/0021-0033.html#IND70384REF23. In 1788 Sarah Hicks, the daughter of Na-Ye-Hi CONRAD and Nathan HICKS married a man surnamed WILBURN, given name unknown at this time. Sarah was sister to Charles Renatus HICKS and William Abraham HICKS. Charles Renatus was for some years Assistant Principal Chief. In early January 1827 Principal Chief Pathkiller died and Charles R. HICKS rose to the Principal Chief position. Sadly, he died 2 weeks later on 20 January 1827. William Abraham HICKS, was also a chief, but not Principal Chief. He was defeated by John ROSS in the election of 1828, the first under the Cherokee Constitution of 1827. He never recovered from the defeat. Every family story has at least a kernel of truth buried in it somewhere. I suspect the story of Nathaniel Wilber is wrapped up in Sarah HICKS's story. It looks to me like the story MIGHT go this way: Nathaniel WILBER (read this as WILBURN) was born in an unknown location about 1720. Sometime between 1735 and 1745 he married a woman name Kat and had a daughter named Frances Elizabeth about 1745 in Wayne County, TN (this is outside the Cherokee domain) and a son sometime before 1756, when he died in TN. This son then married Sarah HICKS, but there is no record of any children born to them. He was not a chief, however, but brother-in-law to chiefs. ​OR​Unknown given name WILBER (read this as WILBURN) was born in an unknown location about 1720. Sometime between 1735 and 1745 he married a woman name Kat and had a daughter named Frances Elizabeth about 1745 in Wayne County, TN (this is outside the Cherokee domain) and a son sometime before 1756, when he died in TN. This son then married Sarah HICKS, but there is no record of any children born to them. Somewhere along the way, Sarah's father's given name NATHAN became conflated with his son-in-law's father's given name, as did her brother, Charles's position as Principal Chief. ​Of course, the Nathan P. WILBER on Cherokee card 3312 could also be the source of the story. People often see only the cards and misunderstand what they mean. Census card 3312 does not show that Sarah BLUEJACKET was Shawnee. The card also does not indicate that Nathan P. WILBER was originally accepted for enrollment by intermarriage and subsequently struck from the rolls in 1907. This information is only found in the Dawes Application Packet itself. Sadly, many of these stories are wishes rather than facts. BTW, I have OTTs in my line in AL, MS, that connect to my Tynes lines. If you have people in these areas, feel free to contact me off list and I'll be happy to chat about them. Kindest regards, Susan Reynolds On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 9:51 AM, Don Ott via <cherokeegene@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Recent family research found Nathaniel Wilber 1720-1756, “Cherokee > Chief” born Land, Grant, Minnesota. His wife was called Kat. Not finding > much on this line. Any help appreciated. > Don > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > Cherokee genealogy; certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and > sort fact from (fiction). > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > please take non genealogy to Cherokee@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CHEROKEEGENE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message =====*NOTICE THIS*===== Cherokee genealogy; certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). List archive http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene please take non genealogy to Cherokee@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHEROKEEGENE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

definitely go back through what you already have, you might come across old info that could answer some new questions. I did that & found that i already had some of the info i was wanting or looking for. I have to go through it again, and organize stuff. I am hoping my kids will be interested in what we have......my mom has way more stuff on her family then i have on my dad's LOL so someone's going to have fun with her stuff :) On 4/4/2016 7:15 PM, Adiene Humble via wrote: > I have tons of paperwork that I copied and even LA census and such and I started to organize it when mom got sick. The thing is none of children are interested in all this work so I hope they give it to the library. Maybe they can organize those papers. Didn’t know anything so I copied every name that I knew. Even have the census of 1850 to 1880 of Angelina Co, TX that the library put together and sold. I need to go back through them now that I’ve found so much info. > >

I have tons of paperwork that I copied and even LA census and such and I started to organize it when mom got sick. The thing is none of children are interested in all this work so I hope they give it to the library. Maybe they can organize those papers. Didn’t know anything so I copied every name that I knew. Even have the census of 1850 to 1880 of Angelina Co, TX that the library put together and sold. I need to go back through them now that I’ve found so much info. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Alli via Sent: Monday, April 4, 2016 7:56 PM To: cherokeegene@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] Nathaniel Wilber Oh i totally remember researching with out the internet, i've been researching my dad's side of the tree since roughly 1983 & got a lot more info. in 1997 when i got my first computer. Still have more questions than answers, but i am tons farther than i was before the computer LOL It'd be nice if places like Ancestry was so flippin' expensive, then i could afford to stay a member & i might be farther along then i am now LOL On 4/4/2016 5:33 PM, Adiene Humble via wrote: > Actually I’ve researched not only both sides but even my husband’s family as well Been at this since 1970 when the answers were more difficult to find because it was on hard copy or film. > > By the time I started researching both sets of grandparents were dead, and only two aunts on dad’s side and 3 uncles and one aunt was alive on mom’s side. One of the uncles had altizemers and didn’t know much and one uncle, just 10 years older to me, said he’d paid someone to research some of the line but never showed me anything.. > > However, my aunt on mom’s side gave me a purse with a lot of interesting stuff in it from either my grandmother or great grandmother. Several tintypes, old weird pair of thick glasses, and these bible pages of a bible listing Robert and Ann White Weeks’ family. Names, dates, marriages,etc including a Cobb person with an Amy or Anny Cobb. Never found them except in Newton Co records. > > This a side that gets tricky, you see my Weeks side were from the same set of Weeks, sons of Zedock and Phobe Weeks of NC or SC (they own property in Mississippi) Zedock and Robert (one of his sons) sold the property in Mississippi in or around 1836 s though he and his sons were in Newton Co, TX by 1834 (have actual copy of deed in Newton Co, TX) > > Robert’ and Ann White;s son Haley Weeks married Nancy Ellen Thompson and had only one daughter, Nancy Jane Weeks. Though I believe there was another daughter Sarah Jane who married Haley’s first born, James Zedock Weeks. According to a bible page he remarried two years later to Sarah Ann Cooper. > > They lived on Cow Creek, then Zed who had remarried moved to Peavy Switch, though that’s a name currently given, along with another son Levi K and Phobe Yarbarry Weeks which is in Angelina Co, TX. Robert moved here by 1880 and here is where this line gets tricky. > > Levi K had a daughter, Susan Amanda Weeks, who married William Harris. William Madison Harris married Sarah Jane Weeks and they had four children. Their daughter Nancy Jane Harriss married my grandfather James Bueitt Allsbrooks God, I hope I got all these names right (from memory) in other words the grandchildren from Robert and Levi K Weeks married. The Harris side is listed on the NA, lots of Williams and he wasn’t around but maybe one census. My uncle said he was a Texas Ranger, never found that. I will say his family definite looked NA. I do have the exact dates > > Grandma Nancy Jane Allsbrooks is the one who told me we had NA. However, later I found through research that my grandfather Allsbrooks had more NA. The Chitty and the Chisum. The Chitty was on the Glass side of my great grandfather Joseph Leonard Allsbrooks and the Chisum was on the Allsbrooks side through the Rowland/Roland. I suspect that there’s more NA in these lines than these as the Thomas family kept intermarry with the ancestral line. And there was a woman in the line named Lightfoot. > > By the way, My great grandfather also married second a Reynolds. Jos first wife was Margaret Sarah Josephine Glass, daughter of Dr James Wesley and Sarah Ann Citty Glass. > > My grandfather’s grandfather was William Thomas Crawford who married Martha Reynolds. Documented by daughters of Revolution of Texas through society There’s a will of Issac Reynolds registered listing Martha Reynolds. I’ve recently been researching the George name, > > I will say that I’ve learned more since the internet and computers have became available but I will also tell you that some of our names have been taken other researchers and are incorrect. > > The Thompson and West family are entwined as well. Does any of this match up with your names. > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== Cherokee genealogy; certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). List archive http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene please take non genealogy to Cherokee@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHEROKEEGENE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

I have a strange question. My mom and her sister had negative blood which as we know is rarer than positive and I’ve wondered if this factors comes from a particular nationality or is it something that is just worldwide? This negative issue applies difficulties in many ways with childbirth. My aunt lost two boys before she had her two girls and then no more children. My mom had trouble having me and our family line have twins, lots of them. This has got to be a genetic connection. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: James via Sent: Monday, April 4, 2016 6:45 PM To: cherokeegene@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] Nathaniel Wilber My wife is a Harris/Runnels-Reynolds, the great grand aunt said they were Souix in part. Dan On 04/04/2016 02:50 PM, Adiene Humble via wrote: > Susan, there has been mentioned in my family of ties to the Cherokee but sadly, as a child I never thought to pursue this. My great grandfather married a Emily Elizabeth Barley (1857 TX , dau of Joseph W (1833 TN) and Mary Barley (1827 AL). grandfather told me his mother was an “Indian” but wouldn’t tell us more or as a very young child I lost interest. Mom did say she saw a portrait of her father in full Indian dress but we don’t know who in the family has the picture. > > Plus my great great great grandmother was Ann George, wife of Issac Reynolds We are descended from Martha Reynolds (or some say Runnels)(13 Jan 1813 TB-17 Dec 1883). The families were in Republic of Mexico before 1850. > > Then I’ve discovered my grandfather’s grandparents on mom’s side were NA (Weeks, Harris, Thompson, Chisum, Chitty, Thomas) Gram too would not discuss which Nation the families were from > > So how do we research these NA? <===> =====*NOTICE THIS*===== Cherokee genealogy; certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). List archive http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene please take non genealogy to Cherokee@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHEROKEEGENE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Actually I’ve found some of them listed as Choctaw as well but when I asked my grandma what kind of NA (yes, I said kind) she told me “the bad kind”. My first thought was the Souix. Or Apache as the movies always portrayed them as scary. I stopped researching the Cherokee (Thompson) when I got a email that was upset with me when I said that there was some violent people. My people in the old days had some “bad people” to survive out here in East Texas when Mexico owned us. It was a scalding email. He was from the Rusk Co, TX NA. Rusk Co and Angelina Co were a part of the Nacogdoches Territory in which my Thomas Crawford and two other commissioners divided several counties from. There were my family lines in Nacogdoches and I wrote one who denied my Thomas’ relationship. I suspect a lot of these settlers were NA who were apart of those who left the Carolinas. My Zed Weeks/Robert/Levi K were from VA/NC/CA, so to me that indicated something, Also, keep in mind East Texas was inhabited by the Cherokee and Caddo tribes as it was part of the treaty with the Cherokee Chief who had fought with the men against the Mexicans. By the way, two Harris brother had ships and Santa Anna and his men were established in the area between Beaumont and Houston at a farm or plantation after the war when it’s owner asked Houston to do something with them. They were eating them out of house of home. The two Harris men sailed with these men back to Mexico and they never got PAID. My Harris was born in Texas so he was in Mexico early. There were three William Harris in the Revolution. There are at least two Reynolds family here as well. One was Oliver Perry Reynolds. If you’d send me the names I will look on ancestry and check with my distant cousin, Della, who shares her site with me and I share mind. There is one other and I plan to check out the George issue. I was sent an email that my Mary Barley was a Walling. There were lots in Nacogdoches and they, too, were NA. Guess I should take the ydna to see if there’s any NA in my veins. I know there was a Chinese listed in SMOG or something. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: James via Sent: Monday, April 4, 2016 6:45 PM To: cherokeegene@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] Nathaniel Wilber My wife is a Harris/Runnels-Reynolds, the great grand aunt said they were Souix in part. Dan On 04/04/2016 02:50 PM, Adiene Humble via wrote: > Susan, there has been mentioned in my family of ties to the Cherokee but sadly, as a child I never thought to pursue this. My great grandfather married a Emily Elizabeth Barley (1857 TX , dau of Joseph W (1833 TN) and Mary Barley (1827 AL). grandfather told me his mother was an “Indian” but wouldn’t tell us more or as a very young child I lost interest. Mom did say she saw a portrait of her father in full Indian dress but we don’t know who in the family has the picture. > > Plus my great great great grandmother was Ann George, wife of Issac Reynolds We are descended from Martha Reynolds (or some say Runnels)(13 Jan 1813 TB-17 Dec 1883). The families were in Republic of Mexico before 1850. > > Then I’ve discovered my grandfather’s grandparents on mom’s side were NA (Weeks, Harris, Thompson, Chisum, Chitty, Thomas) Gram too would not discuss which Nation the families were from > > So how do we research these NA? <===> =====*NOTICE THIS*===== Cherokee genealogy; certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). List archive http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene please take non genealogy to Cherokee@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHEROKEEGENE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Oh i totally remember researching with out the internet, i've been researching my dad's side of the tree since roughly 1983 & got a lot more info. in 1997 when i got my first computer. Still have more questions than answers, but i am tons farther than i was before the computer LOL It'd be nice if places like Ancestry was so flippin' expensive, then i could afford to stay a member & i might be farther along then i am now LOL On 4/4/2016 5:33 PM, Adiene Humble via wrote: > Actually I’ve researched not only both sides but even my husband’s family as well Been at this since 1970 when the answers were more difficult to find because it was on hard copy or film. > > By the time I started researching both sets of grandparents were dead, and only two aunts on dad’s side and 3 uncles and one aunt was alive on mom’s side. One of the uncles had altizemers and didn’t know much and one uncle, just 10 years older to me, said he’d paid someone to research some of the line but never showed me anything.. > > However, my aunt on mom’s side gave me a purse with a lot of interesting stuff in it from either my grandmother or great grandmother. Several tintypes, old weird pair of thick glasses, and these bible pages of a bible listing Robert and Ann White Weeks’ family. Names, dates, marriages,etc including a Cobb person with an Amy or Anny Cobb. Never found them except in Newton Co records. > > This a side that gets tricky, you see my Weeks side were from the same set of Weeks, sons of Zedock and Phobe Weeks of NC or SC (they own property in Mississippi) Zedock and Robert (one of his sons) sold the property in Mississippi in or around 1836 s though he and his sons were in Newton Co, TX by 1834 (have actual copy of deed in Newton Co, TX) > > Robert’ and Ann White;s son Haley Weeks married Nancy Ellen Thompson and had only one daughter, Nancy Jane Weeks. Though I believe there was another daughter Sarah Jane who married Haley’s first born, James Zedock Weeks. According to a bible page he remarried two years later to Sarah Ann Cooper. > > They lived on Cow Creek, then Zed who had remarried moved to Peavy Switch, though that’s a name currently given, along with another son Levi K and Phobe Yarbarry Weeks which is in Angelina Co, TX. Robert moved here by 1880 and here is where this line gets tricky. > > Levi K had a daughter, Susan Amanda Weeks, who married William Harris. William Madison Harris married Sarah Jane Weeks and they had four children. Their daughter Nancy Jane Harriss married my grandfather James Bueitt Allsbrooks God, I hope I got all these names right (from memory) in other words the grandchildren from Robert and Levi K Weeks married. The Harris side is listed on the NA, lots of Williams and he wasn’t around but maybe one census. My uncle said he was a Texas Ranger, never found that. I will say his family definite looked NA. I do have the exact dates > > Grandma Nancy Jane Allsbrooks is the one who told me we had NA. However, later I found through research that my grandfather Allsbrooks had more NA. The Chitty and the Chisum. The Chitty was on the Glass side of my great grandfather Joseph Leonard Allsbrooks and the Chisum was on the Allsbrooks side through the Rowland/Roland. I suspect that there’s more NA in these lines than these as the Thomas family kept intermarry with the ancestral line. And there was a woman in the line named Lightfoot. > > By the way, My great grandfather also married second a Reynolds. Jos first wife was Margaret Sarah Josephine Glass, daughter of Dr James Wesley and Sarah Ann Citty Glass. > > My grandfather’s grandfather was William Thomas Crawford who married Martha Reynolds. Documented by daughters of Revolution of Texas through society There’s a will of Issac Reynolds registered listing Martha Reynolds. I’ve recently been researching the George name, > > I will say that I’ve learned more since the internet and computers have became available but I will also tell you that some of our names have been taken other researchers and are incorrect. > > The Thompson and West family are entwined as well. Does any of this match up with your names. >

That sounds like a conflict with RH factor's. If the woman is RH- (negative) & the man is RH+ (positive) then the baby will (generally) have the dad's RH+ & the woman's body will think its something to fight & kill, hence the miscarriages. If the woman gets a shot & i just went blank on what its called, but it helps to prevent the woman's body from rejecting the foreign object (baby). I am also RH-negative and A-. My husband is RH+ & i forget the blood type, but its positive. after all 4 of our kids I had to get a shot so i didn't miscarrying. RH- is rare On 4/4/2016 6:25 PM, Adiene Humble via wrote: > I have a strange question. My mom and her sister had negative blood which as we know is rarer than positive and I’ve wondered if this factors comes from a particular nationality or is it something that is just worldwide? This negative issue applies difficulties in many ways with childbirth. My aunt lost two boys before she had her two girls and then no more children. My mom had trouble having me and our family line have twins, lots of them. This has got to be a genetic connection. > >

Actually I’ve researched not only both sides but even my husband’s family as well Been at this since 1970 when the answers were more difficult to find because it was on hard copy or film. By the time I started researching both sets of grandparents were dead, and only two aunts on dad’s side and 3 uncles and one aunt was alive on mom’s side. One of the uncles had altizemers and didn’t know much and one uncle, just 10 years older to me, said he’d paid someone to research some of the line but never showed me anything.. However, my aunt on mom’s side gave me a purse with a lot of interesting stuff in it from either my grandmother or great grandmother. Several tintypes, old weird pair of thick glasses, and these bible pages of a bible listing Robert and Ann White Weeks’ family. Names, dates, marriages,etc including a Cobb person with an Amy or Anny Cobb. Never found them except in Newton Co records. This a side that gets tricky, you see my Weeks side were from the same set of Weeks, sons of Zedock and Phobe Weeks of NC or SC (they own property in Mississippi) Zedock and Robert (one of his sons) sold the property in Mississippi in or around 1836 s though he and his sons were in Newton Co, TX by 1834 (have actual copy of deed in Newton Co, TX) Robert’ and Ann White;s son Haley Weeks married Nancy Ellen Thompson and had only one daughter, Nancy Jane Weeks. Though I believe there was another daughter Sarah Jane who married Haley’s first born, James Zedock Weeks. According to a bible page he remarried two years later to Sarah Ann Cooper. They lived on Cow Creek, then Zed who had remarried moved to Peavy Switch, though that’s a name currently given, along with another son Levi K and Phobe Yarbarry Weeks which is in Angelina Co, TX. Robert moved here by 1880 and here is where this line gets tricky. Levi K had a daughter, Susan Amanda Weeks, who married William Harris. William Madison Harris married Sarah Jane Weeks and they had four children. Their daughter Nancy Jane Harriss married my grandfather James Bueitt Allsbrooks God, I hope I got all these names right (from memory) in other words the grandchildren from Robert and Levi K Weeks married. The Harris side is listed on the NA, lots of Williams and he wasn’t around but maybe one census. My uncle said he was a Texas Ranger, never found that. I will say his family definite looked NA. I do have the exact dates Grandma Nancy Jane Allsbrooks is the one who told me we had NA. However, later I found through research that my grandfather Allsbrooks had more NA. The Chitty and the Chisum. The Chitty was on the Glass side of my great grandfather Joseph Leonard Allsbrooks and the Chisum was on the Allsbrooks side through the Rowland/Roland. I suspect that there’s more NA in these lines than these as the Thomas family kept intermarry with the ancestral line. And there was a woman in the line named Lightfoot. By the way, My great grandfather also married second a Reynolds. Jos first wife was Margaret Sarah Josephine Glass, daughter of Dr James Wesley and Sarah Ann Citty Glass. My grandfather’s grandfather was William Thomas Crawford who married Martha Reynolds. Documented by daughters of Revolution of Texas through society There’s a will of Issac Reynolds registered listing Martha Reynolds. I’ve recently been researching the George name, I will say that I’ve learned more since the internet and computers have became available but I will also tell you that some of our names have been taken other researchers and are incorrect. The Thompson and West family are entwined as well. Does any of this match up with your names. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Alli via Sent: Monday, April 4, 2016 5:07 PM To: cherokeegene@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] Nathaniel Wilber are you researching both set's of parents or just the one set. You mention Ann & Isaac, but not her side. We have some Thompson's on this group.........Thompson & Chism are familiar Cherokee Names that i've come across in my research & weeks too i think. I have Thompson's in my line, but no real dates for them & only know that the "main" line is connected to Adams, not sure all the kids were married to or who my 4th great grandma was On 4/4/2016 3:50 PM, Adiene Humble via wrote: > Susan, there has been mentioned in my family of ties to the Cherokee but sadly, as a child I never thought to pursue this. My great grandfather married a Emily Elizabeth Barley (1857 TX , dau of Joseph W (1833 TN) and Mary Barley (1827 AL). grandfather told me his mother was an “Indian” but wouldn’t tell us more or as a very young child I lost interest. Mom did say she saw a portrait of her father in full Indian dress but we don’t know who in the family has the picture. > > Plus my great great great grandmother was Ann George, wife of Issac Reynolds We are descended from Martha Reynolds (or some say Runnels)(13 Jan 1813 TB-17 Dec 1883). The families were in Republic of Mexico before 1850. > > Then I’ve discovered my grandfather’s grandparents on mom’s side were NA (Weeks, Harris, Thompson, Chisum, Chitty, Thomas) Gram too would not discuss which Nation the families were from > > So how do we research these NA? > > > > > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== Cherokee genealogy; certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). List archive http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene please take non genealogy to Cherokee@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHEROKEEGENE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Susan, there has been mentioned in my family of ties to the Cherokee but sadly, as a child I never thought to pursue this. My great grandfather married a Emily Elizabeth Barley (1857 TX , dau of Joseph W (1833 TN) and Mary Barley (1827 AL). grandfather told me his mother was an “Indian” but wouldn’t tell us more or as a very young child I lost interest. Mom did say she saw a portrait of her father in full Indian dress but we don’t know who in the family has the picture. Plus my great great great grandmother was Ann George, wife of Issac Reynolds We are descended from Martha Reynolds (or some say Runnels)(13 Jan 1813 TB-17 Dec 1883). The families were in Republic of Mexico before 1850. Then I’ve discovered my grandfather’s grandparents on mom’s side were NA (Weeks, Harris, Thompson, Chisum, Chitty, Thomas) Gram too would not discuss which Nation the families were from So how do we research these NA? Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Susan Reynolds via Sent: Sunday, April 3, 2016 3:30 PM To: CherokeeGene Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] Nathaniel Wilber Hello, Don! Looking at the posted family trees on this line, I'm inclined to take them with a huge grain of salt. Some of them say Cherokee Land, Grant, Minnesota. That looks suspiciously like it should read land grant in Minnesota. Grant County MN was formed in 1868 and named for Ulysses S. Grant. The city of Grant in Washington County, MN was also named for U.S. Grant, so it was not formed until after the Civil War, unless it was simply renamed. I can't find a history to confirm or deny. If he was born on a land grant in MN, that would not have been an American grant. MN belonged to the French at the time in question, so you would need to find where their records for the area are archived - if any existed. I would think they might be in Toronto. The French ceded this possession to Spain in 1762. In 1783, the Treaty of Paris that ended the Revolution gave the part of modern MN east of the Mississippi River to the United States. MN reverted to French control and was then part of the Louisiana Purchase in 1803. I haven't looked into what names applied under the Spanish and French, so I can't tell you if they are different or not. If Nathaniel WILBER was Cherokee, it is highly unlikely he was born in MN. In this area you should probably be looking at the Dakota, Ojibwe, or Anishinaabe. An occasional Cherokee MIGHT have drifted into the area, but the Cherokee domain was in the modern states of TN, GA, AL, NC, a little in SC. Kat looks like the English nickname for Katherine, not a Cherokee name (some of those trees show Kat as the Cherokee Chief and this would not have been. The women's honorifics would have been Beloved Woman, possibly War Woman, but not chief in that era). A lot of the mythological Cherokee genealogies give locations with modern locations that did not exist at that time. One case in point is Doublehead's birth place. Doublehead was born around 1744. In accounts of the Yahoo Falls Massacre (that I have proven as fictitious with documentation), his birth place is given as Stearns, McCreary County, KY. Stearns did not exist until 1902 when Justus S. STEARNS founded it as the company town for the Stearns Coal and Lumber Company in an area that was in Wayne County at that time. McCreary County was formed in 1912 from portions of Whitley, Pulaski, and Wayne Counties. It was KY's last county. The Cherokee hunted in what is now KY, but did not actually live there (at least by this time). Cherokee hunters did have long term camps there, sometimes lasting a few years which groups of hunters rotated in and out of, but no permanent towns. While there is an arguable case that Doublehead could have been born there when his parents hunted in KY and stayed in a camp where his mother birthed him away from home, this too is unlikely. Women did not often accompany the hunters, except on occasion to prepare food and perform women's tasks. A pregnant woman would not have accompanied the hunters at all. Theda Perdue, in Cherokee Women: Gender and Culture Change 1700-1835, pages 30-31, states that the Cherokees believed pregnant women to be extremely powerful both naturally and spiritually (what whites understand as powerful medicine!) and while they did not go into seclusion as they normally did monthly, they still limited their activities. They didn't go to ceremonies, visit sick people, observe ball games. Cherokees avoided any paths pregnant women walked on and did not eat anything the prepared. Their presence would have contaminated the hunt. Perdue notes that evidence indicates their men also limited their activities and did not fish, hunt, or even fight during their wives pregnancies. Since Doublehead's father was Tifftoya of Tanassee, also known as Willenawah or Great Eagle,this argues for Tanassee as Doublehead's birth place. In 1720, the Cherokee had not yet converted to centralized government and each town had its own chiefs - Peace or white chief and War or red chief. In 1730, when he took seven representative Cherokee "headmen" to England to meet George II, Alexander CUMMING had declared Moytoy emperor or King of the Cherokees, but this was a European construct that did not accurately depict Cherokee social and civil organization. It was strictly for CUMMING's "diplomatic" purposes. The Cherokees did not coalesce into a centralized form until the late 1780s and early 1790s. Even then, they did not have elected chiefs until 1828, they had chiefs chosen more by acclamation. Nathaniel WILBER could not have been Chief of the Cherokee Nation because Cherokee Nation did not come into existence during his lifetime and the position did not yet exist as far as the Cherokees were concern, regardless of CUMMING's machinations. I don't find anything in the various records I have available, which are many, that show any name close to WILBER that match yours. There was a Nathan P. WILBER that married a Shawnee woman named Sarah H. "Dean" BLUEJACKET in the Dawes Commission Records. They lived in Cherokee Nation and appear on Cherokee by blood card 3312, although she was Shawnee. He was white and born in 1848. There are two Wilber/Wilbur Eastern Cherokee Applications, Lula and Lena Josie, but these are married names and they were also born in the 19th century, not the 18th. Lula was from St. Louis and Lena from Peters, TN. Lena's maiden name was LEDFORD and they have Cherokee ties, but I don't have any details of just how at the moment. The closest name I find is in Jim Hicks's Cherokee Lineages website - Wilburn - http://www.genealogy.com/ftm/h/i/c/James-R-Hicks-VA/BOOK-0001/0021-0033.html#IND70384REF23. In 1788 Sarah Hicks, the daughter of Na-Ye-Hi CONRAD and Nathan HICKS married a man surnamed WILBURN, given name unknown at this time. Sarah was sister to Charles Renatus HICKS and William Abraham HICKS. Charles Renatus was for some years Assistant Principal Chief. In early January 1827 Principal Chief Pathkiller died and Charles R. HICKS rose to the Principal Chief position. Sadly, he died 2 weeks later on 20 January 1827. William Abraham HICKS, was also a chief, but not Principal Chief. He was defeated by John ROSS in the election of 1828, the first under the Cherokee Constitution of 1827. He never recovered from the defeat. Every family story has at least a kernel of truth buried in it somewhere. I suspect the story of Nathaniel Wilber is wrapped up in Sarah HICKS's story. It looks to me like the story MIGHT go this way: Nathaniel WILBER (read this as WILBURN) was born in an unknown location about 1720. Sometime between 1735 and 1745 he married a woman name Kat and had a daughter named Frances Elizabeth about 1745 in Wayne County, TN (this is outside the Cherokee domain) and a son sometime before 1756, when he died in TN. This son then married Sarah HICKS, but there is no record of any children born to them. He was not a chief, however, but brother-in-law to chiefs. ​OR​ ​Unknown given name WILBER (read this as WILBURN) was born in an unknown location about 1720. Sometime between 1735 and 1745 he married a woman name Kat and had a daughter named Frances Elizabeth about 1745 in Wayne County, TN (this is outside the Cherokee domain) and a son sometime before 1756, when he died in TN. This son then married Sarah HICKS, but there is no record of any children born to them. Somewhere along the way, Sarah's father's given name NATHAN became conflated with his son-in-law's father's given name, as did her brother, Charles's position as Principal Chief. ​ ​Of course, the Nathan P. WILBER on Cherokee card 3312 could also be the source of the story. People often see only the cards and misunderstand what they mean. Census card 3312 does not show that Sarah BLUEJACKET was Shawnee. The card also does not indicate that Nathan P. WILBER was originally accepted for enrollment by intermarriage and subsequently struck from the rolls in 1907. This information is only found in the Dawes Application Packet itself. Sadly, many of these stories are wishes rather than facts. BTW, I have OTTs in my line in AL, MS, that connect to my Tynes lines. If you have people in these areas, feel free to contact me off list and I'll be happy to chat about them. Kindest regards, Susan Reynolds On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 9:51 AM, Don Ott via <cherokeegene@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Recent family research found Nathaniel Wilber 1720-1756, “Cherokee > Chief” born Land, Grant, Minnesota. His wife was called Kat. Not finding > much on this line. Any help appreciated. > Don > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > Cherokee genealogy; certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and > sort fact from (fiction). > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > please take non genealogy to Cherokee@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CHEROKEEGENE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message =====*NOTICE THIS*===== Cherokee genealogy; certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). List archive http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene please take non genealogy to Cherokee@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHEROKEEGENE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

My wife is a Harris/Runnels-Reynolds, the great grand aunt said they were Souix in part. Dan On 04/04/2016 02:50 PM, Adiene Humble via wrote: > Susan, there has been mentioned in my family of ties to the Cherokee but sadly, as a child I never thought to pursue this. My great grandfather married a Emily Elizabeth Barley (1857 TX , dau of Joseph W (1833 TN) and Mary Barley (1827 AL). grandfather told me his mother was an “Indian” but wouldn’t tell us more or as a very young child I lost interest. Mom did say she saw a portrait of her father in full Indian dress but we don’t know who in the family has the picture. > > Plus my great great great grandmother was Ann George, wife of Issac Reynolds We are descended from Martha Reynolds (or some say Runnels)(13 Jan 1813 TB-17 Dec 1883). The families were in Republic of Mexico before 1850. > > Then I’ve discovered my grandfather’s grandparents on mom’s side were NA (Weeks, Harris, Thompson, Chisum, Chitty, Thomas) Gram too would not discuss which Nation the families were from > > So how do we research these NA? <===>

are you researching both set's of parents or just the one set. You mention Ann & Isaac, but not her side. We have some Thompson's on this group.........Thompson & Chism are familiar Cherokee Names that i've come across in my research & weeks too i think. I have Thompson's in my line, but no real dates for them & only know that the "main" line is connected to Adams, not sure all the kids were married to or who my 4th great grandma was On 4/4/2016 3:50 PM, Adiene Humble via wrote: > Susan, there has been mentioned in my family of ties to the Cherokee but sadly, as a child I never thought to pursue this. My great grandfather married a Emily Elizabeth Barley (1857 TX , dau of Joseph W (1833 TN) and Mary Barley (1827 AL). grandfather told me his mother was an “Indian” but wouldn’t tell us more or as a very young child I lost interest. Mom did say she saw a portrait of her father in full Indian dress but we don’t know who in the family has the picture. > > Plus my great great great grandmother was Ann George, wife of Issac Reynolds We are descended from Martha Reynolds (or some say Runnels)(13 Jan 1813 TB-17 Dec 1883). The families were in Republic of Mexico before 1850. > > Then I’ve discovered my grandfather’s grandparents on mom’s side were NA (Weeks, Harris, Thompson, Chisum, Chitty, Thomas) Gram too would not discuss which Nation the families were from > > So how do we research these NA? > > > > > >