The reason I asked was because of a couple of book recently published concerning the Shawnee. Two volumes by Don Green and Noel ____. A Brock list subscriber had asked me about them. The only answer I had was for him to check for a bibliography then check the bibliography...that books were always secondary resources and even worse when the sources weren't provided. There seems to be a huge amount of 'conversation' concerning these in the community of Shawnee researchers. All the message board posts I read weren't complimentary. Joyce Gaston Reece

'siyo Joyce, Was that Don Kelly?? Wado, Bill -=- On 7/22/2012 9:29 PM, Joyce Gaston Reece wrote: > What was the last name of the guy named ‘Don’ who came up with the Thomas Pasmere Carpenter stuff that was all over the internet a few years ago? > > Was it Don Greene? > > > Joyce Gaston Reece > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting is required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Don Greene does have a great deal of *misinformation*, but I’m pretty sure it’s Jim White that had the Thomas Pasmere Carpenter stuff. Joy From: Joyce Gaston Reece Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 9:29 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [CherokeeGene] last name What was the last name of the guy named ‘Don’ who came up with the Thomas Pasmere Carpenter stuff that was all over the internet a few years ago? Was it Don Greene? Joyce Gaston Reece

What was the last name of the guy named ‘Don’ who came up with the Thomas Pasmere Carpenter stuff that was all over the internet a few years ago? Was it Don Greene? Joyce Gaston Reece

Hello. Felix Walker is mentioned in some of the LEATHERWOOD claims who go back to BURNS and WALKER lines. This is suppose to be my Cherokee connection, although I still have a missing link. I have a picture of Sarah LEATHERWOOD who appears very much indian, probably Cherokee. She is a beautiful woman. Problem is we have her name on marraige as Sarah SHELTON and thus mystery about where that name LEATHERWOOD enters from. It is possible LEATHERWOOD maybe her mother's maiden name, as we have not found her parents. In addition the LEATHERWOODs claims were mostly rejected unless the lines they married into were proven indian. However, I have researched enough to know that they should have been approved, they claim through a sub chief, Oh hoo hoos skee. I have found that name on early rolls, spelt a little different, living in Ayore, Pumpkin Town, NC. Debbie

Knowing you, this is true. I'll leave the expertise up to you & Joyce & some others ;) cause I'd just be guessing LOL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan-M" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 10:07 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] Talking > Well. > Its just a part of the fact n notes areas in genealogy. > It dont hurt any more to learn these than the same thing as to argue a > point > of fact if some one knows a proven fact that covers an area of guess. > known facts > Clovis came from the east - not the land bridge. > Native Americans came from Asia via Siberia and the land bridge. > Siberians did not migrate till way later and mainly only went to Alaska. > Native Americans, Clovis and Siberians all had different weaponry to > identify where they came from. > And where to the Solutreans fit in? > > True or guess? > Who is the expert? > Dan M

This is a follow up regarding the Cherokee in 1850 in Butte County Calif.  I did send a note to the person informing them that I would be sending on her information .   wanda   Date: Thursday, July 19, 2012, 11:59 AM Wanda - I'm afraid that I don't have much information for you since documentation in the 1850s was pretty minimal.  Additionally, miners moved around following the gold strikes.  I found in an article printed in Diggin's (the BCHS journal), Vol. 10, No. 4, the following: "Legend states that the first discovery of gold at Cherokee was made in the year 1853 by a young Yankee school teacher, Sol Potter.  Potter, it is believed, left New England in his early manhood to teach in the schools in the Cherokee Territory of Oklahoma.  While he was teaching there, the gold strikes in California piqued his curiosity, and he proceeded to cross the plains region bringing with him some of his Cherokee students.  As Potter and the Cherokee Indians worked their way north through the gold fields, one of the Indians discovered gold while panning a small stream which ran from the side of a hill at the north end of Table Mountain. There is no proof that the Potter legend is true, but it is known that Cherokee Indians did prospect in Butte County during the early years of mining in this area.  H.H. Bancroft indicates the Cherokees may have discovered the gold as early as 1849.  Even if the Potter story is fiction, it is very likely that the area at the north end of Table Mountain originally derived its name from the Indians of the Cherokee tribe."    

There is no R in the Cherokee language which gives an Idea that some one else named them. Yes, many tribes; elders many times all give the same account about how many tribes came from the Cherokee, or what was the real beginning if the word Cherokee had not been in use then? Tools, scrapers, points, tools from all types of stone type materials. Blankets from hides still with the fur on them. Houses - not ti-pi's; Hogans were used, great pictures on main Cherokee sites. Flint, and other materials they made fire used things they learned what burned well, fibers, pitch, sulfur, and other things. Many people were told they were Cherokee, but those doing the telling, some had no clue, they just assumed because they knew they were joined to NA some how, it had to be Cherokee. Now, with so many peoples included, its more possible than not. Who did they learn to build the hogan, and when? Lots of Q and A to have such a quiet group. This can be taken to the culture group as well. But to do genealogy, a fair knowledge of history never hurts. Dan M ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce Gaston Reece" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] Talking >I can shed some light on some of these but not all....most are in your line > of expertise, Dan. > > Tools: We all can imagine what type of tools were used prior to the entry > of white culture among Indians. One of the reason's trade goods were so > in > demand were the pots, knives, blankets....all the basic items the women > never had before. Can you imagine a life with none of the modern day > tools > we take for granted. Those in this area used flint, volcanic glass, and > other types of stones to make their knives, arrow points or hatchets. > > Where did 'Cherokee' come from? There are hundreds and hundreds of > individual villages/tribes that eventually got pulled under the umbrella > of > whom we know to be Cherokee today. On paper that is. The Lumbee, > Catawba, > Yuchi, Yammassee, Cheraw just off the top of my head. While negotiating > with the SC Indians in the 1740's an interpreter had asked the Indians > what > they called themselves. The word was spelled phonetically and something > similar to Cheri-ke. Somehow the name stuck. > > There weren't enough caves in this region for them to have been 'cave > dwellers'. They were living, not in teepee's as some would say, but in > earthen structures. They had one central structure that was the 'meeting > house' of sorts. The mound builders pre-date who we recognize as Cherokee > by a few hundred years....according to archaeological research done by the > University of Tennessee and Tennessee Valley Authority. > > > > > > Joyce Gaston Reece > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan-M > Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 11:50 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] Talking > > So? > No ones talking about any thing. > Interesting. > So much to talk about too. > How about, what type of tools did the Cherokee have? > Arrow or spear making. > Where did they get their materials? > Where did they live first? > How did they get to the East coast? > How many people were called Cherokee? > Who titled these people as Cherokee? > Were they cave dwellers? > Were they from Asia? > > Lots of topics to cover. > > I have researched all these. > Has any one else? > > Dan > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting is > required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting is > required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Well. Its just a part of the fact n notes areas in genealogy. It dont hurt any more to learn these than the same thing as to argue a point of fact if some one knows a proven fact that covers an area of guess. known facts Clovis came from the east - not the land bridge. Native Americans came from Asia via Siberia and the land bridge. Siberians did not migrate till way later and mainly only went to Alaska. Native Americans, Clovis and Siberians all had different weaponry to identify where they came from. And where to the Solutreans fit in? True or guess? Who is the expert? Dan M ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce Gaston Reece" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] Talking >I can shed some light on some of these but not all....most are in your line > of expertise, Dan. >

I can shed some light on some of these but not all....most are in your line of expertise, Dan. Tools: We all can imagine what type of tools were used prior to the entry of white culture among Indians. One of the reason's trade goods were so in demand were the pots, knives, blankets....all the basic items the women never had before. Can you imagine a life with none of the modern day tools we take for granted. Those in this area used flint, volcanic glass, and other types of stones to make their knives, arrow points or hatchets. Where did 'Cherokee' come from? There are hundreds and hundreds of individual villages/tribes that eventually got pulled under the umbrella of whom we know to be Cherokee today. On paper that is. The Lumbee, Catawba, Yuchi, Yammassee, Cheraw just off the top of my head. While negotiating with the SC Indians in the 1740's an interpreter had asked the Indians what they called themselves. The word was spelled phonetically and something similar to Cheri-ke. Somehow the name stuck. There weren't enough caves in this region for them to have been 'cave dwellers'. They were living, not in teepee's as some would say, but in earthen structures. They had one central structure that was the 'meeting house' of sorts. The mound builders pre-date who we recognize as Cherokee by a few hundred years....according to archaeological research done by the University of Tennessee and Tennessee Valley Authority. Joyce Gaston Reece -----Original Message----- From: Dan-M Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 11:50 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] Talking So? No ones talking about any thing. Interesting. So much to talk about too. How about, what type of tools did the Cherokee have? Arrow or spear making. Where did they get their materials? Where did they live first? How did they get to the East coast? How many people were called Cherokee? Who titled these people as Cherokee? Were they cave dwellers? Were they from Asia? Lots of topics to cover. I have researched all these. Has any one else? Dan =====*NOTICE THIS*===== this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting is required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. Rude people will be moderated asap! List archive http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene Dual admin. Dan and Joyce ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have gotten distracted once again by non-genealogy related things & haven't been on the computer much (shockingly) LOL but I have absolutely no idea about the questions you asked....... but i'll take a stab at it :) I have absolutely no idea what types of tools the Cherokee had or used, but wasn't it said that they were farmer type people? But was that prior to the settlers? if so, then i'd guess they'd have some sort of rock hammer, scooper, something to start fires, cut down trees, branches off. Something to skin animals with, something to work their furs/hides. they'd need a piece of skin/hide to protect their leg & hands from the shards of rock. Depending on the material, i'd say around their enviroment/territory. well, it depends on which generation your talking about....but if your talking about where did they first live before they were found in their current spot, that's a good question. because there were people from Turtle Island, so that is on the East Coast (right?) so they could have come from there or from anywhere.....good question If they originated from the north west, then they probably walked. There were horses back in the dinosaur time.....maybe some of them lived (I forget when they died off, but i know some were found here) but if they came from somewhere off the east coast.......then our east coast could have been the closest land mass for them to get to? Wasn't "Cherokee" a European/English term for our People? So if that was.......it'd be interesting to know how many others were given that label before or after & why it didn't stick I thought they lived in huts of some sort? its possible that they could have lived in the caves Its interesting & would love to learn more......just not a lot of time right now :( Alli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan-M" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] Talking > So? > No ones talking about any thing. > Interesting. > So much to talk about too. > How about, what type of tools did the Cherokee have? > Arrow or spear making. > Where did they get their materials? > Where did they live first? > How did they get to the East coast? > How many people were called Cherokee? > Who titled these people as Cherokee? > Were they cave dwellers? > Were they from Asia? > > Lots of topics to cover. > > I have researched all these. > Has any one else? > > Dan > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting is > required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yep I have those questions also in my head bone. Please enlighten me and the others on this server. Oliver -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dan-M Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 10:50 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] Talking So? No ones talking about any thing. Interesting. So much to talk about too. How about, what type of tools did the Cherokee have? Arrow or spear making. Where did they get their materials? Where did they live first? How did they get to the East coast? How many people were called Cherokee? Who titled these people as Cherokee? Were they cave dwellers? Were they from Asia? Lots of topics to cover. I have researched all these. Has any one else? Dan =====*NOTICE THIS*===== this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting is required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. Rude people will be moderated asap! List archive http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene Dual admin. Dan and Joyce ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

So? No ones talking about any thing. Interesting. So much to talk about too. How about, what type of tools did the Cherokee have? Arrow or spear making. Where did they get their materials? Where did they live first? How did they get to the East coast? How many people were called Cherokee? Who titled these people as Cherokee? Were they cave dwellers? Were they from Asia? Lots of topics to cover. I have researched all these. Has any one else? Dan

Here is a link that will help explain my thoughts. http://www2.journalnow.com/news/2008/dec/04/dna-secrets-caves-latrines-yield-new-evidence-abou-ar-129674/ *http://www2.journalnow.com/news/2008/dec/04/dna-secrets-caves-latrines-yield-new-evidence-abou-ar-129674/* use the link between the stars for those that dont get hot links. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joy King" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:13 AM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] About DNA talks > The only other thing you may be thinking about is the Y-DNA haplogroup > sub-group: > http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpQ.html > Y-DNA haplogroup Q arose in Central Asia and migrated through the > Altai/Baikal region of northern Eurasia into the Americas. Today it is > found in North Eurasia, with some exemplars in European populations. > > The Q1a3a1 sub-group is almost exclusively associated with Native American > populations. > > Joy > > From: Dan-M > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 1:40 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] About DNA talks > > I will look up where I got the info and re post it when I find out what I > meant to mean in simpler terms because as it was explained to me my mind > said duh huh? At that time. > DNA is complex and its a new thing for me too even tho I am years into > it, > its not been a priority to understand it, just to provide a place to talk > about it. > Dan ;) > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting is > required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The only other thing you may be thinking about is the Y-DNA haplogroup sub-group: http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpQ.html Y-DNA haplogroup Q arose in Central Asia and migrated through the Altai/Baikal region of northern Eurasia into the Americas. Today it is found in North Eurasia, with some exemplars in European populations. The Q1a3a1 sub-group is almost exclusively associated with Native American populations. Joy From: Dan-M Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 1:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] About DNA talks I will look up where I got the info and re post it when I find out what I meant to mean in simpler terms because as it was explained to me my mind said duh huh? At that time. DNA is complex and its a new thing for me too even tho I am years into it, its not been a priority to understand it, just to provide a place to talk about it. Dan ;)

I will look up where I got the info and re post it when I find out what I meant to mean in simpler terms because as it was explained to me my mind said duh huh? At that time. DNA is complex and its a new thing for me too even tho I am years into it, its not been a priority to understand it, just to provide a place to talk about it. Dan ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joy King" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] CHEROKEEGENE Digest, Vol 7, Issue 151 > Dan, > > I'm not sure what test you are referring to. There was one that we > discussed on the Cherokee DNA list in June of 2009: > > "As Roberta posted to this list on May 25th, FTDNA's Advanced Testing > Panel 3 Autosomal test includes marker D9S919. This marker is found with > values of 9-10 in about 30% of American Indians. If you have these values, > it confirms AI ancestry, although the absence of these values does not > eliminate AI ancestry. The test for this marker is not expensive. You will > find it through your FTDNA home page by clicking on the Order Tests & > Upgrades button, then the Advanced Tests button, then check the Autosomal > box, then check marker D9S919 in Panel 3." > > But, as you can see, this is definitely not the kind of proof you seem to > be talking about. > > Joy > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dan-M > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:08 AM > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] CHEROKEEGENE Digest, Vol 7, Issue 151 > > > Who is testing for the markers found to go to the people who first > migrated. > Those people have a certain marker, its only in those people who came > from > Asia to Siberia to here. > Dan > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting is > required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dan, I'm not sure what test you are referring to. There was one that we discussed on the Cherokee DNA list in June of 2009: "As Roberta posted to this list on May 25th, FTDNA's Advanced Testing Panel 3 Autosomal test includes marker D9S919. This marker is found with values of 9-10 in about 30% of American Indians. If you have these values, it confirms AI ancestry, although the absence of these values does not eliminate AI ancestry. The test for this marker is not expensive. You will find it through your FTDNA home page by clicking on the Order Tests & Upgrades button, then the Advanced Tests button, then check the Autosomal box, then check marker D9S919 in Panel 3." But, as you can see, this is definitely not the kind of proof you seem to be talking about. Joy ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan-M To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] CHEROKEEGENE Digest, Vol 7, Issue 151 Who is testing for the markers found to go to the people who first migrated. Those people have a certain marker, its only in those people who came from Asia to Siberia to here. Dan

Also know [email protected] is a great place to wake up. Its for the future, people will go there and so it would be nice to CC that group/ Dan

I have Rogers also. How ever, am stuck with the grandfather. We cant figure out who his dad could be, there are TOO many Henry Rogers born in NY est 1830. It would be nice to figure out this. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Reynolds" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:22 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] Fw: Levi Thomas Rogers-1866 > Wanda, I have his and his brother's application, plus his children's. > The children were accepted as their mother was an Emigrant Cherokee. > Levi and David Rogers were rejected because they claimed through their > mother's bloodline and Mitchell and Polly Overtaker Sanders were Old > Settlers. > > Let me try to convert these to a PDF for you. Otherwise I'll send > them a few pages at a time. > > Susan

Its the same as hosp records, you get a copy, but not the whole thing. What the point is, whats the point to test if they cant have the records in archival to compare them? You pay - to get archived. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alli :)" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:56 AM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] dna > yeah that's not cool. > > I'll never be able to convince my family to do these test's if the results > belong to the company > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joyce Gaston Reece" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:43 AM > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] CHEROKEEGENE Digest, Vol 7, Issue 151 > > >> Now THAT I didn't know. I 'assumed' that once someone had paid for the >> results the 'results' belonged to the person....not the company who did >> the >> testing. Somehow that doesn't seem kosher. If I pay for a new broom to >> ride that broom belongs to me....not the person who sold it to me. >> >> >> >> Joyce Gaston Reece >> -----Original Message----- >> >> =====*NOTICE THIS*===== >> this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting >> is >> required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. >> >> Rude people will be moderated asap! >> List archive >> http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene >> Dual admin. >> Dan and Joyce >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting is > required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message