"Far from perfect"? Geeze Alli, give a gal a break........lol Alli, you've touched upon something that has been controversial for quite a few years. The late Jerri Chastain was adamant in her thinking that if someone or their ancestors wasn't on any of the rolls or living within the Cherokee Nation then they simply were not Cherokee, period. There are still those who think that today. I suppose we all have to form our own way of thinking about this issue. If someone is a few generations removed from a Cherokee by blood ancestor are they Cherokee? If someone has an ancestor a few generations back that is black are they African American? The mixed blood people who remained in Arkansas, Missouri, Tennessee, Georgia, etc etc are their descendents Cherokee? It touches upon the issue currently being discussed concerning the Freedmen in Oklahoma. Those under discussion are the descendents of non-Cherokee slaves. Joyce Gaston Reece

Pauline, If you go back to my original post, I was talking about MY family :) I have a Thomas Thompson N.C. (as far as i know right now) Married Delphia whose maiden name is currently unknown. They had 3-4 kids......Elizabeth Thompson (my triple great grandma), David Thompson, James Thompson & possibly another girl whose name is unknown but my Dbl. great grandma mentions her in a letter. Elizabeth Thompson married a James Adams (Jr) who was born in East Tn. they had several kids, one of them being my dbl. great grandma Martha Malinda Adams who was born in Tn. in 1838. They moved when she was 11 to Ark or Mo (have to look in my records) Martha then married a Samuel Phariss who was born in 1824 in Tn. (yes, there was a big age difference). They had a ton of kids in Mo & Ark before moving to Okla. & had more. Those are the Thompson's i'm referring to & looking for. I haven't even began to start on David & James. I know that by 1907 that one of those boys had been dead for 30 yrs. so i don't know if they started their own family or not. I know what our family history is & know that based on some documents i have found, our chances of having Cherokee blood is high....but the proof is sporadic & I have a lot of holes to plug.. Good luck on your search. My dad & husband worked with a man with the last name of Beaver, I don't recall his tribal connection, but i'll ask my hubby if he recalls or my mom as she's in touch with his wife & can ask her. Alli :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pauline Schwarz" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 3:48 PM Subject: [CherokeeGene] Alli: Arkansas and Missouri Cherokee > > Hi Alli, > > I believe my ancestors (Beavers) who came to Arkansas in 1817 are what > you > are talking about. > They did not move on to Oklahoma but remained in Arkansas. Frustrating > not > to find any > information on them. GG grandfather born in about 1825 in Ark. > according to > 1850 census. > Great grandmother was born in Ash Flat, Arkansas 1853, and was according > to > family a > Cherokee. She was Nancy Mariah Beavers who married Lewis Thompson (not > believed to be indian.) > He was from Illinois. Her parents were J. W. born in Arkansas (or M.) > Beavers and Phoebe (maiden name unknown) > born in Tennessee. 1850 Census report does not have race marked for > anyone > on the page. > > Nancy Mariah Beavers Thompson is buried in Spring Creek Cemetery near > Calico > Rock, Arkansas. > I have a picture of her gravestone and have visited the grave site. > > No way to find anything more. Members of the family have searched for > many > years. I just remember my father telling us > we were part Cherokee when we moved to Oklahoma City from Kansas City, > MO. > when I was about 8 years old. > > Pauline Harris Schwarz

Thanks Joyce....... I know that my family (will have to double check) was not on the Siler Rolls.....but I've got a LOT more searching to do. I know that my triple great grandma moved from Tn. (or NC) when she was 11 so that was in 1849 (I think) It'll be an interesting discovery & adventure :) Alli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce Gaston Reece" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy > The original Old Settlers were in Arkansas, Alli. Western Arkansas before > it was a part of the state. If you look into the Old Settlers you'll see > many of them in Western Arkansas before being removed, in the 1830's to > Oklahoma. For instance Judge John C. Martin is buried near Fort Smith and > is said to be the first supreme court judge in the west. You'll see > traces of the group in southeast Missouri. Looking into the history of > the > 1811 earthquake of the New Madrid fault there are tales of Indians being a > tad upset with the aftershocks that occurred for 6 months afterwards. > Many > moved back east. > > The reason many aren't recognized as citizens has a whole lot to do with > claim payments of the early 1900's. Hundreds to thousands of mixed bloods > or descendents of mixed bloods were not nor had they ever lived on Indian > land. For 60-70 years they & each generation following had denied their > Cherokee heritage for several reasons...most of them for very good > reasons. > Then, when the payments were finally to be made there was a LOT of them > who > tried to re-apply for citizenship. Thus the thousands of citizenship > applications beginning in 1896. Most of those were denied, which was, > obviously the fed's trying to conserve money. In almost any area where > the > Cherokee Indians resided you'll see their mixed blood descendents and > they'll almost always be enumerated as white but, nonetheless, they'll be > descendents. > > It's an extremely complex situation. Every geographical location, time > period, and family has its own individual story. No one story will ever > be > the whole situation...there's no one answer. > > Most of the Indians who received the Dawes, Miller or Eastern Cherokee > payments were descendents of those who resided on Indian land or could > prove > an ancestor lived on Indian land. Look into the reason for the Siler > roll, > for instance. > > > > Joyce Gaston Reece

How is it that you "know" what the Cherokee's have (supposedly been) guarding when 99% of Cherokee's wouldn't know. And who is this Earthfeather that you keep sharing our messages with? If they are not a part of our group, they shouldn't be getting our messages, I know that I have not given anyone permission to send my messages all over the place (I've been finding a lot of my posting's on Ancestry, which is annoying in itself)....... You are not the only one who is Cherokee or has Cherokee in their family tree, but you are the only one (at least in a very long time) who seems to think they are God's gift to that Tribe, yet like many prior to you. You spout statements off here & there but refuse to give specific sources & specific documented proof. The WHOLE point of being on a genealogy list is not to act like a child & say "nana nana I know more then you, but I'm not telling" Its to SHARE links, sources, documents. To HELP others find answers, correct miss information. So far you've been rude & act like a no-it-all & frankly......if that's how Cherokee's act..........I'll stick to being White & what ever else race I have in my tree.......there's enough Rudeness in society today......don't need it here too. 99% of grandma's have special names that grandkids (adopted, blood, or neighbor) call them.....sheesh, that's nothing new. DNA/Blood.....kind of the same thing. Documents, files, sources, links.............specific's.......not some made up gotta look for yourself crap..........either you can back up what you say or you can't...... no sense in claiming your "history" is far better then Joyce's or anyone elses.........While Joyce is far from perfect (sorry Joyce LOL) At least She gives SPECIFIC details & documents based on her findings & others over the years & does NOT tell people to go look for themselves.........THAT'S what a real genealogist does. Alli ----- Original Message ----- From: "BARBARA GORDON-LANTTO" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Cc: "earthfeather99" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 11:50 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy > Susan > > It would take a book or two to answer your questions. > > It amazes me how you people think. Your heads have been filled with > garbage. > I know what Poca's family names were. I know she is Matoaca. I know > what the Cherokee have been guarding. I know some of the closely guarded > secrets. But it you are not Cherokee, you will not get answers. And I > honor that. Those people , my people, have been through HELL > > I did not know that my close related people were Cherokee. They did not > want me to know. My grandparents were wonderful people. After my father > was killed, my grandparents were always there for me. And raised > me. I knew my great grandmother. She lived in a small town above Oregon > City. And did not go by her "proper name". She had a special name that > everyone called her. > > Something inside of me knew. Today it is called Blood Memory. I called it > DNA memory. > > When Matoaca was abducted, her husband trying to protect her, was murdered > by the James Towne English. Their twins were cut loose in the woods. The > Cherokee found them and took them to a safe place to grow up They grew up. > While most of the Powhatan and Cherokee were destroyed. > > Your idea of history is far, far off. > > One of my first questions to the Cherokee was about Powhatan GORDON. I am > a GORDON and use my Gordon name as part of my identity. The Cherokee > answered, " he was three generations from Poca."They knew who I was, it > was me who did not know .But I do now. > > BARB

There's only so much "subjective" you can be........its either there or it isn't, there's no in between ----- Original Message ----- From: "BARBARA GORDON-LANTTO" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 10:10 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy > DNA testing is subjective. Depends on the Lab. > > BARB

And the other question is.......why would Cherokee's Intermarry with in their tribe, when they were not allowed to by their own laws? They could not marry within the same clan's...... so who were they intermarrying? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce Gaston Reece" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy > Well, I've provided resources for what I wrote about. > > The so called 'Trail of Tears' was done within 1837-1838. Not > before...not > after. It was within the Treaty signed by The Ridge. The Treaty included > the agreement that Cherokee people would have 3 years to leave. Those > that > did not were the one's who were forcibly removed. The years from 1795 to > 1835 were voluntary emigrations. > > So, if this same thing happened in the Southwest why don't you provide us > with the documentation that shows and tells about this. > > > > > > > Joyce Gaston Reece > > In the 1700's the Cherokee were busy building up the tribe by > intermarriage. > Most of the population, both populations, were building families. > Occasionally strange activities did happen. > > Example is Thomas Jefferson and his sister who were left as orphans, went > to > live at the Tuckahoe Plantation on the James River. Most of the tribal > slaughter happened in the 1800's .Whole villages were wiped out in the > middle of the night. The first prominent happenings were at James Towne VA > > Very few Natives celebrate Thanksgiving. > > The Trail of Tears in the South East also happened in the South > West. > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting is > required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Pauline......... Why would i be talking about your ancestors when I know nothing about them. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Pauline Schwarz >> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 5:48 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: [CherokeeGene] Alli: Arkansas and Missouri Cherokee >> >> >> Hi Alli, >> >> I believe my ancestors (Beavers) who came to Arkansas in 1817 are what >> you >> are talking about. >> They did not move on to Oklahoma but remained in Arkansas. >> Frustrating >> not >> to find any >> information on them. GG grandfather born in about 1825 in Ark. >> according >> to >> 1850 census. >> Great grandmother was born in Ash Flat, Arkansas 1853, and was >> according >> to >> family a >> Cherokee. She was Nancy Mariah Beavers who married Lewis Thompson >> (not >> believed to be indian.) >> He was from Illinois. Her parents were J. W. born in Arkansas (or M.) >> Beavers and Phoebe (maiden name unknown) >> born in Tennessee. 1850 Census report does not have race marked for >> anyone >> on the page. >> >> Nancy Mariah Beavers Thompson is buried in Spring Creek Cemetery near >> Calico >> Rock, Arkansas. >> I have a picture of her gravestone and have visited the grave site. >> >> No way to find anything more. Members of the family have searched for >> many >> years. I just remember my father telling us >> we were part Cherokee when we moved to Oklahoma City from Kansas City, >> MO. >> when I was about 8 years old. >> >> Pauline Harris Schwarz

I've looked in many places & already named several. My ancestors did not go to Canada. I have never heard of the Cherokee people being up in Canada for 13,000 years.......where's the info. on that? I'm sure you & dan could have an interesting discussion about where the Cherokee people or Indians in general came from originally :) Alli ----- Original Message ----- From: "BARBARA GORDON-LANTTO" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy > Where are you looking? > > The Cherokee were part of the Algonquin Nation.It was huge. > They also went to Canada.( RAN?)They claim to have been here for thirteen > thousand years. > History has the time frame wrong.They came by Phoenician ship. Hebrew. > from the House of David. > Of Israel. > > BARB >

American Indian suffer because they choose to, they continue to cry "whoa as me" & refuse to get on their own feet & always seeking a hand out. You act like you are the only authority in American History or Cherokee history, but you don't give sources, documention, etc. How many treaties did American Indians break? Either with themselves, other tribes or even the Fed's. If there was so much proof about the Cherokee Tribes, then why are they still searching for the answer's themselves. What does Puallup Indians have to do with the Cherokee? 2 boys from that area are not necessarily going to be able to provide proof of a slaughter. WHere's the documentation of this find? Where's the news reports? Where's the links or book title & author's to all your "see" this or that. Barbara You obviously thing you know far more then anyone here, yet you continue to give very little factual info. If they had documentation then it wouldn't be new discoveries & such about the areas they lived in or how they lived, etc. So if you have documentation to back up what you are boasting about......where is it. We're asking you.....as you are the one posting all of this stuff, claiming to know tons..... give specific's. Alli ----- Original Message ----- From: "BARBARA GORDON-LANTTO" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Cc: "earthfeather99" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy > In the 1700's the Cherokee were busy building up the tribe by > intermarriage. > Most of the population, both populations, were building families. > Occasionally strange activities did happen. > > Example is Thomas Jefferson and his sister who were left as orphans, went > to live at the Tuckahoe Plantation on the James River. Most of the tribal > slaughter happened in the 1800's .Whole villages were wiped out in the > middle of the night. The first prominent happenings were at James Towne VA > > Very few Natives celebrate Thanksgiving. > > The Trail of Tears in the South East also happened in the South > West. > > Certainly you have heard of tribes "disappearing"? On my desk is a list of > tribes that disappeared over night. Later, The Presidential attitude > was Indians were "nits" to be destroyed. There is a letter available that > was sent to the Acting Washington Territorial Governor Issac Stevens from > the President of the US. > > Just in recent years Eatonville WA School children discovered a slaughter > there that had been covered up.About 1855. Two boys had escaped. See; > Puayllup Indians.Or Chief Leschi who was tried twice and hung; and > his brother, Quiamuth, murdered at the WA state Capital as a Guest. The > take-over was almost complete by 1855. > > Very few of the Treatys have ever been honored by the FEDS.See Arkansas > Cherokee /Most of the "Indians" were rounded up or killed and survivors > placed on mumerous "reservations" that, later, were shut down and sold to > Settlers. See: The Flathead Reservation, Montana. > > Sequoya died in Mexico. > The Cherokee ask for permission to leave Texas and were denied. They went > anyway and became "the Cherokee of Mexico" > > See Big Hole Montana.... > > Joyce, you obviously do not know your country's history. My heart cries > for the people. OMG. > > Today the Native Americans suffer from PTSD from the continual > generational trauma. > > And you want Documentation? Read or ask the Cherokee. They got > docummentation. The Feds say as little as possible. > > > > BARB > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joyce Gaston Reece" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 1:35 PM > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy > > >> I was speaking in terms of the 1700's. >> >> The Cherokee weren't in Arkansas until 1795 when Chief Bowls took the >> first >> emigrants there. The largest body of that group that formed the Old >> Settlers >> and the Keetowah Band going with Tah lon tee skee in 1809. It was part >> of >> this group that emigrated into southeast Missouri...very early 1800's. >> Those from the Bowl's group are the ones who later went to Mexico. >> >> There is ONE record that I've found of a group of 300 going from Georgia >> to >> the Nations Capital in the 1790's in order to get to know the president >> and >> country leaders >> It is in Public Lands, Indian Affairs, American State Papers. >> >> If they were in Maryland, Delaware, please cite the resources for the >> documentation for this knowledge. >> >> Are you saying that as many as 50 million Indians were killed? By whom? >> Today's population in the state of Tennessee is apx 10-11,000,000 people >> in >> comparison. So are we to assume that you are saying that the entire >> population of Indians was the number you stated? >> >> >> >> Joyce Gaston Reece >> -----Original Message----- >> From: BARBARA GORDON-LANTTO >> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 2:32 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Cc: earthfeather99 >> Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy >> >> North West Georgia was Cherokee Country. >> >> Actually the Cherokee were in Viginia, Maryland, Delaware, Washington >> DC, North Carolina, South Carolina. Kentucky, Arkansas and Louisianna, >> Missouri, Tennessee, Texas and Mexico.They were travelers.And they are >> still >> there, but usually hidden. Today it is said fifty million were massacred >> or >> killed by poison. They were a friendly people , eager to welcome and >> share >> what they had. Their world was a Garden of Eden. They had nice homes, >> gardens and ships. Frequently they >> traveled to Great Britain Scotland, Ireland and Wales.And elsewhere. >> >> Cherokee is Not their name. They have never claimed to be "Indian" >> >> BARB >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Earleene" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 9:45 AM >> Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy >> >> >> > my family was in dade co ga,some of them migraed from wayne co ky. >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "BARBARA GORDON-LANTTO" <[email protected]> >> > To: <[email protected]> >> > Cc: "earthfeather99" <[email protected]> >> > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 12:17 PM >> > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy >> > >> > >> > > The Shawnee and the Cherokee were together in 1600's at Winchester >> > > VA. >> > > Most records were destroyed. But information can be found. Most >> > > Cherokee >> > > have Shawnee ancestors and Lenni-Lenape/Delaware.( Algonquin) We >> > > are >> > > thankful for them. >> > > >> > > Abraham Lincoln had his troops destroy the entire Winchester (Opequon >> > > Shawnee village) area, 72 times, and then burned it.Both George >> > > Washington and Lord Fairfax lived there with the Indians. Only the >> > > Natives >> > > know the story and "what" Lincoln was searching for...... The >> > > Winchester >> > > occupants went to Texas and elsewhere during the Civil War. And >> > > returned >> > > to rebuild. It is back-upped by out of print books. >> > > >> > > I think you mean NW Georgia.The Chicamouga were prevalent there. And >> > > the >> > > Gordon's and Chief John Ross.And the Great Chicamouga Battle at Lee >> > > and >> > > Gordon Mills.( My relatives)NW Georgia....EDMONDS. ALDERMAN, GORDON, >> > > LEE,) >> > > >> > > Read the Memoirs of General John B Gordon and the Chickamouga Battle. >> > > >> > > Or at the Duck River in Tennessee where Captain John Gordon and >> > > Cherokee-Powhatan Gordon family lived. >> > > >> > > An old Indian Trail devided the familys. at both ends, later became >> > > "Federal Road" >> > > >> > > The BENGE's ( Red Paint Clan) and others, lived at Clay County, >> > > Kentucky, >> > > See: A J Goodwin. ( my GGgrandfather) >> > > >> > > See TUCKAHOE...LIttle Jake Troxel..and SEQUOYA( HALF-BROTHER TO MY >> > > THIRD >> > > GREAT GRANDMOTHER who married John "Tippy" HOUSE)AND begat JAMES >> > > HOUSE >> > > AND >> > > FIVE OTHERS. (DAUGHTER MARRIED McDaniel) >> > > >> > > The Cherokee History is NOT written down for the FEDS (the enemy.) >> > > Please >> > > remember the trail of Tears took place, because of force, and not by >> > > an >> > > act of friendship. Four thousand died. >> > > >> > > BACK in Virginia, James Gordon acquired the Gordonsville VA property >> > > from >> > > EDMONDS. From Georgia, my relatives first went to North Carolina, >> > > Some >> > > Aldermans are still there......Cherokee Long Hair twisted hair Clan >> > > >> > > Later some went to Gilgal Island Illinois.Later Tom Haynes wrote a >> > > book >> > > out of Montana, about Gilgal Island. >> > > >> > > Alderman and Edmonds went to Oregon/Washington Territory. My great >> > > grandparents. They named my grandmother "Georgia".... >> > > >> > > On government records HOUSE was "white" but our Indian linage goes >> > > back >> > > to Delaware and the Cherokee.And the Lenni-Lenape >> > > >> > > BARB >> > > >> > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: "Joyce Gaston Reece" <[email protected]> >> > > To: <[email protected]> >> > > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 4:30 AM >> > > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy >> > > >> > > >> > >> Blevins were white who married into the Cherokee. >> > >> >> > >> Most rolls were taken in anticipation of a payment or claim for >> > >> payment. >> > >> Why would they 'run' from that? The rolls weren't 100% but they're >> > >> all >> > >> we've got. >> > >> >> > >> The region of Kentucky was not an area of heavy settlement for >> > >> Indians >> > >> we >> > >> call Cherokee. It was ground claimed for hunting ground...lands >> > >> they'd >> > >> had >> > >> conflicts with the Shawnee over during a long period of time. The >> > >> majority >> > >> of the settlement by them that we know about was in southeast >> > >> Tennessee, >> > >> south west North Carolina, northwest South Carolina, northeast >> > >> Georgia. >> > >> And, of course, the Chickamauga settlements in northeast Alabama and >> > >> the >> > >> region around what is now Chattanooga, TN >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Joyce Gaston Reece >> > >> >> > >> =====*NOTICE THIS*===== >> > >> this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain >> > >> chatting >> > >> is required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. >> > >> >> > >> Rude people will be moderated asap! >> > >> List archive >> > >> http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene >> > >> Dual admin. >> > >> Dan and Joyce >> > >> ------------------------------- >> > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> > >> without >> > >> the >> > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== >> > > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain >> > > chatting >> > > is >> > > required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. >> > > >> > > Rude people will be moderated asap! >> > > List archive >> > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene >> > > Dual admin. >> > > Dan and Joyce >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> > > the >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== >> > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain >> > chatting >> > is required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. >> > >> > Rude people will be moderated asap! >> > List archive >> > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene >> > Dual admin. >> > Dan and Joyce >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> > the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> =====*NOTICE THIS*===== >> this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting >> is >> required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. >> >> Rude people will be moderated asap! >> List archive >> http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene >> Dual admin. >> Dan and Joyce >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> =====*NOTICE THIS*===== >> this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting >> is required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. >> >> Rude people will be moderated asap! >> List archive >> http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene >> Dual admin. >> Dan and Joyce >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting is > required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

But again.........IF we have Cherokee in those areas.....why are they not acknowledged by the people (not the government). I have heard too many times that the Cherokee people would not acknowledge the people who went to Missouri/Arkansas even though its known that some of our people went there. We're only out of luck to add our names to Roll's to be registered. But that's not my goal to begin with......and just because we can't find them on rolls doesn't mean that they aren't Cherokee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Martin" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 4:06 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy > It's called the Dawes and Miller Indian rolls. They had to be on the > rolls/registered by a certain date. You can still be registered as a > Cherokee (Tahlequah, Okla) if you can prove your lineage to a Cherokee > ancestor. (Solid proof, not what aunt Jane or Uncle Joe told you.) If you > ancestors are not on these rolls, you are out of luck--------almost. > --------Col. Joe

were they originally known as iroquie people"probably didnt spell it right ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alli :)" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy > Ok, so that makes more sense. The way you originial wrote, it sounded like > you were saying the Lincoln was the leader of the troops (like General > Lee). > Ok, based on this link......no where (so far that I've read) states that > we > were clear up to Maryland or DC. > > How many of the books that you've read, as documents to back up what you > are > currently posting? No history tells the truth......they all give their > rendition of the truth usually from the Victor's point of you. That's a > proven fact & most of the American History continues to be altered or left > out or taken out as the years goes by. > > I already know they are a special people. And I already know that that > isn't > their original name.........but you haven't stated what their name is. > > Alli > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "BARBARA GORDON-LANTTO" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Cc: "earthfeather99" <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 1:31 PM > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy > > >> Here is a link again. >> >> http://cherokeeregistry.com/ >> >> President Lincoln was in charge of the troops. He first offered Robert E >> Lee the job of head of the Army for the Civil War. Lee wrote back >> and politly told him "he loved Virginia too much" and declined. Lee >> also >> ask How the President could shoot his own people? >> >> I read every book I could get my hands on and then some. I read Books >> in Heritage Quest, also from Public Libraries.I have been a thirsty >> reader since early, early childhood. I ordered General Robert E Lee's >> books. He personally wrote three books.So did other family members write >> books. I read them too.. >> >> His family owned the Washington D C property , Arlington National >> Cemetery. West Point and other properties. The Feds put his father, Henry >> "lighthorse" Harry Lee in prison for not paying taxes on Indian Land. >> >> American History does not tell the truth. >> But that is something you need to discover for your self. >> >> Invading Winchester 72 time is part of the Civil War Records. The >> Cherokee >> have managed to hide some world artifacts that are ours to keep and hide >> till they are needed. The Cherokee are very special people. Cherokee is >> not their name. >> >> BARB > > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting is > required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Susan It would take a book or two to answer your questions. It amazes me how you people think. Your heads have been filled with garbage. I know what Poca's family names were. I know she is Matoaca. I know what the Cherokee have been guarding. I know some of the closely guarded secrets. But it you are not Cherokee, you will not get answers. And I honor that. Those people , my people, have been through HELL I did not know that my close related people were Cherokee. They did not want me to know. My grandparents were wonderful people. After my father was killed, my grandparents were always there for me. And raised me. I knew my great grandmother. She lived in a small town above Oregon City. And did not go by her "proper name". She had a special name that everyone called her. Something inside of me knew. Today it is called Blood Memory. I called it DNA memory. When Matoaca was abducted, her husband trying to protect her, was murdered by the James Towne English. Their twins were cut loose in the woods. The Cherokee found them and took them to a safe place to grow up They grew up. While most of the Powhatan and Cherokee were destroyed. Your idea of history is far, far off. One of my first questions to the Cherokee was about Powhatan GORDON. I am a GORDON and use my Gordon name as part of my identity. The Cherokee answered, " he was three generations from Poca."They knew who I was, it was me who did not know .But I do now. BARB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Reynolds" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy > Barb, the reason people are asking for documentation on some of these > statements is because there are historical problems. We really would > like to believe but there has to be some proof, not vague statements > to the effect of go find it yourself. Please know I'm not being ugly, > we're all looking for the truth, too. Let me explain > > You wrote: > 'It was predominate and common in the 1600's to 1700's. and later. > all Cherokee goes back to Pocahontas or to her sister, Nikkia....and > MOYTOY > and Quatsie.' > > Response: True the Indian Nations married their cousins - that's all > they had most of the time. But this was not a Cherokee phenomenon, it > was a HUMAN phenomenon and all people did/do it. In fact, we all go > back to first man and first woman, however we think they arrived here, > so we are ALL cousins whether we wish it so or not. How is it ALL > Cherokee go back to Pocahontas (see the next paragraph). Who was her > Cherokee husband or lover? Those we call the Cherokee today were > chronicled by DeSoto in the 1500s and were not in Virginia. Did they > live there at some point? Yes, but it must be remembered that what > was called Virginia THEN and what is called Virginia now are two > different things. In the Virginia Company charter of 1609 almost all > of what we call Kentucky (except the far western part), Tennessee and > North Carolina were called Virginia. So yes, they lived in Virginia > then but not around the settlements and not near the Powhatans, likely > not in what we know as modern Virginia. They certainly might have > traded with them, the Nations did have a large and robust trade > system, but there is no evidence they lived in close proximity. So, > if you have that evidence, please, please, please share it. I would > love to explore it and maybe do my thesis on it! > > > You wrote: "For example, General Robert E Lee was cousin to General > John B Gordon. Both > men married their cousins. And that is just one example. After Eleven > years > of intense study and research. Both men, in fact, all of them, were > Powhowtan-Cherokee." > > Response: The Powhatan Nation states Pocahontas, proper name Matoaka, > is the only child of Powhatan's whose name is known. > http://www.powhatan.org/pocc.html She was a little girl when the > first Jamestown settlers arrived and was dead by the age of 21 in 1617 > in England. She had only one known child, Thomas Rolfe, and I have > never found a link between Thomas Rolfe and the Lees and it would > almost certainly have to come from this line if they are Powhatan and > who was the Cherokee ancestor? The people in Lee's line are > documented right back to England with no breaks I have been able to > find. I do leave that with an open mind, though, hoping for more > information. Please, do share your documentation. There are plenty > of records on the Lees and I just can't find it. The Powhatans hated > whites, this is well known, so people are going to view this > skeptically. Was there more intermarriage? It's possible certainly > but it's not noted in early records. Most of what we know took place > around Jamestown and there ARE records for there. It's entirely > possible the "lost colony" of Roanoke was absorbed into the Powhatan > Nation and its history forever lost in the mists of time. Please, > though, give us the straight scoop rather than an answer that could be > taken as evasive. That will never convince anyone. > > > You wrote: "Four hundred years ago there was a Native American Nation > here named the > Algonquin Nation. Most tribes were destroyed. They were directly > related and the same family" > > > Response: True the Powhatans are Algonquian and the Powhatan > confederacy and many of the tribes of the confederacy were largely > destroyed by 1644. The Cherokee are Iroquoian though and were not > known to be part of this confederacy by any name associated with the > Cherokee (and yes, Cherokee is a European phonetic corruption of one > of the names the Cherokee have for themselves - Tsa-la-gi. It just > doesn't translate phonetically very well.) > > I promise you, I'm not being ugly or poking at you. I have very high > standards in my research and, like any good historian or genealogist I > want the science to be right and the proof provided. I don't want my > passion to be seen as quackery or junk science. If there is nothing > more than a whispered something in a dark corner, it will never be > accepted and people will throw stones and hurt you. I have just > finished a research project for class on Jamestown and I would dearly > love to know what records you have. I want to put my hands on them if > I can. I have a ton of old books and access to many documents that > are begging to be read. > > Happy time travels! > Susan > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting > is required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Barb, the reason people are asking for documentation on some of these statements is because there are historical problems. We really would like to believe but there has to be some proof, not vague statements to the effect of go find it yourself. Please know I'm not being ugly, we're all looking for the truth, too. Let me explain You wrote: 'It was predominate and common in the 1600's to 1700's. and later. all Cherokee goes back to Pocahontas or to her sister, Nikkia....and MOYTOY and Quatsie.' Response: True the Indian Nations married their cousins - that's all they had most of the time. But this was not a Cherokee phenomenon, it was a HUMAN phenomenon and all people did/do it. In fact, we all go back to first man and first woman, however we think they arrived here, so we are ALL cousins whether we wish it so or not. How is it ALL Cherokee go back to Pocahontas (see the next paragraph). Who was her Cherokee husband or lover? Those we call the Cherokee today were chronicled by DeSoto in the 1500s and were not in Virginia. Did they live there at some point? Yes, but it must be remembered that what was called Virginia THEN and what is called Virginia now are two different things. In the Virginia Company charter of 1609 almost all of what we call Kentucky (except the far western part), Tennessee and North Carolina were called Virginia. So yes, they lived in Virginia then but not around the settlements and not near the Powhatans, likely not in what we know as modern Virginia. They certainly might have traded with them, the Nations did have a large and robust trade system, but there is no evidence they lived in close proximity. So, if you have that evidence, please, please, please share it. I would love to explore it and maybe do my thesis on it! You wrote: "For example, General Robert E Lee was cousin to General John B Gordon. Both men married their cousins. And that is just one example. After Eleven years of intense study and research. Both men, in fact, all of them, were Powhowtan-Cherokee." Response: The Powhatan Nation states Pocahontas, proper name Matoaka, is the only child of Powhatan's whose name is known. http://www.powhatan.org/pocc.html She was a little girl when the first Jamestown settlers arrived and was dead by the age of 21 in 1617 in England. She had only one known child, Thomas Rolfe, and I have never found a link between Thomas Rolfe and the Lees and it would almost certainly have to come from this line if they are Powhatan and who was the Cherokee ancestor? The people in Lee's line are documented right back to England with no breaks I have been able to find. I do leave that with an open mind, though, hoping for more information. Please, do share your documentation. There are plenty of records on the Lees and I just can't find it. The Powhatans hated whites, this is well known, so people are going to view this skeptically. Was there more intermarriage? It's possible certainly but it's not noted in early records. Most of what we know took place around Jamestown and there ARE records for there. It's entirely possible the "lost colony" of Roanoke was absorbed into the Powhatan Nation and its history forever lost in the mists of time. Please, though, give us the straight scoop rather than an answer that could be taken as evasive. That will never convince anyone. You wrote: "Four hundred years ago there was a Native American Nation here named the Algonquin Nation. Most tribes were destroyed. They were directly related and the same family" Response: True the Powhatans are Algonquian and the Powhatan confederacy and many of the tribes of the confederacy were largely destroyed by 1644. The Cherokee are Iroquoian though and were not known to be part of this confederacy by any name associated with the Cherokee (and yes, Cherokee is a European phonetic corruption of one of the names the Cherokee have for themselves - Tsa-la-gi. It just doesn't translate phonetically very well.) I promise you, I'm not being ugly or poking at you. I have very high standards in my research and, like any good historian or genealogist I want the science to be right and the proof provided. I don't want my passion to be seen as quackery or junk science. If there is nothing more than a whispered something in a dark corner, it will never be accepted and people will throw stones and hurt you. I have just finished a research project for class on Jamestown and I would dearly love to know what records you have. I want to put my hands on them if I can. I have a ton of old books and access to many documents that are begging to be read. Happy time travels! Susan

They were part of the Algonquin. Put in your browser, " Cherokee's name" BARB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earleene" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy > were they originally known as iroquie people"probably didnt spell it right > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alli :)" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 5:19 PM > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy > > > > Ok, so that makes more sense. The way you originial wrote, it sounded > > like > > you were saying the Lincoln was the leader of the troops (like General > > Lee). > > Ok, based on this link......no where (so far that I've read) states that > > we > > were clear up to Maryland or DC. > > > > How many of the books that you've read, as documents to back up what you > > are > > currently posting? No history tells the truth......they all give their > > rendition of the truth usually from the Victor's point of you. That's a > > proven fact & most of the American History continues to be altered or > > left > > out or taken out as the years goes by. > > > > I already know they are a special people. And I already know that that > > isn't > > their original name.........but you haven't stated what their name is. > > > > Alli > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "BARBARA GORDON-LANTTO" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Cc: "earthfeather99" <[email protected]> > > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 1:31 PM > > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy > > > > > >> Here is a link again. > >> > >> http://cherokeeregistry.com/ > >> > >> President Lincoln was in charge of the troops. He first offered Robert > >> E > >> Lee the job of head of the Army for the Civil War. Lee wrote back > >> and politly told him "he loved Virginia too much" and declined. Lee > >> also > >> ask How the President could shoot his own people? > >> > >> I read every book I could get my hands on and then some. I read > >> Books > >> in Heritage Quest, also from Public Libraries.I have been a thirsty > >> reader since early, early childhood. I ordered General Robert E Lee's > >> books. He personally wrote three books.So did other family members > >> write > >> books. I read them too.. > >> > >> His family owned the Washington D C property , Arlington National > >> Cemetery. West Point and other properties. The Feds put his father, > >> Henry > >> "lighthorse" Harry Lee in prison for not paying taxes on Indian Land. > >> > >> American History does not tell the truth. > >> But that is something you need to discover for your self. > >> > >> Invading Winchester 72 time is part of the Civil War Records. The > >> Cherokee > >> have managed to hide some world artifacts that are ours to keep and > >> hide > >> till they are needed. The Cherokee are very special people. Cherokee is > >> not their name. > >> > >> BARB > > > > > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting > > is > > required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. > > > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > > List archive > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > > Dual admin. > > Dan and Joyce > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting > is required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

DNA testing is subjective. Depends on the Lab. BARB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce Gaston Reece" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy > You should speak to our resident expert on the DNA of the American Indian. > He happens to be the listowner of this very list. > > It is my understanding that DNA testing has not nor will it likely ever > prove that any Indians are a lost Tribe of Israel. > > BJ Reece > > > > Where are you looking? > > The Cherokee were part of the Algonquin Nation.It was huge. > They also went to Canada.( RAN?)They claim to have been here for thirteen > thousand years. > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting > is required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Barb G-L wrote: “And you want Documentation? Read or ask the Cherokee. They got docummentation. The Feds say as little as possible.” And where might this info be located? The Cherokee don’t have written history, they didn’t have the means to write anything prior to Sequoyah’s invention of the syllabury. If there is something I should know about please tell me where I might find the resources to learn. PLEASE provide resources. Joyce Gaston Reece

We have NO documented proof of any McDaniel's being in the Cherokee tribe prior to Alexander born in the mid to late 1700's.....not 1600's. If you have documentation please provide the source. The very earliest person we have recorded as being with the Cherokee is Cornelius Daugherty. Joyce Gaston Reece McDaniel joined the Cherokee early in 1600"s. A McDaniel runs our House Genealogy BARB

You should speak to our resident expert on the DNA of the American Indian. He happens to be the listowner of this very list. It is my understanding that DNA testing has not nor will it likely ever prove that any Indians are a lost Tribe of Israel. BJ Reece Where are you looking? The Cherokee were part of the Algonquin Nation.It was huge. They also went to Canada.( RAN?)They claim to have been here for thirteen thousand years.

Well, I've provided resources for what I wrote about. The so called 'Trail of Tears' was done within 1837-1838. Not before...not after. It was within the Treaty signed by The Ridge. The Treaty included the agreement that Cherokee people would have 3 years to leave. Those that did not were the one's who were forcibly removed. The years from 1795 to 1835 were voluntary emigrations. So, if this same thing happened in the Southwest why don't you provide us with the documentation that shows and tells about this. Joyce Gaston Reece In the 1700's the Cherokee were busy building up the tribe by intermarriage. Most of the population, both populations, were building families. Occasionally strange activities did happen. Example is Thomas Jefferson and his sister who were left as orphans, went to live at the Tuckahoe Plantation on the James River. Most of the tribal slaughter happened in the 1800's .Whole villages were wiped out in the middle of the night. The first prominent happenings were at James Towne VA Very few Natives celebrate Thanksgiving. The Trail of Tears in the South East also happened in the South West.

Joyce I am very aware of the Cherokee History, The Trail of Tears and etc. I value the work that you do. If you are interested in the South West, that information can be found on the Internet.I reminded myself that the group is about the Cherokee. So I stopped. My mind is elsewhere today. MY son is having extensive, complicating open heart surgery in the morning. It has been a trying week. And a million dollars. BARB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce Gaston Reece" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy > Well, I've provided resources for what I wrote about. > > The so called 'Trail of Tears' was done within 1837-1838. Not > before...not > after. It was within the Treaty signed by The Ridge. The Treaty included > the agreement that Cherokee people would have 3 years to leave. Those > that > did not were the one's who were forcibly removed. The years from 1795 to > 1835 were voluntary emigrations. > > So, if this same thing happened in the Southwest why don't you provide us > with the documentation that shows and tells about this. > > > > > > > Joyce Gaston Reece > > In the 1700's the Cherokee were busy building up the tribe by > intermarriage. > Most of the population, both populations, were building families. > Occasionally strange activities did happen. > > Example is Thomas Jefferson and his sister who were left as orphans, went > to > live at the Tuckahoe Plantation on the James River. Most of the tribal > slaughter happened in the 1800's .Whole villages were wiped out in the > middle of the night. The first prominent happenings were at James Towne VA > > Very few Natives celebrate Thanksgiving. > > The Trail of Tears in the South East also happened in the South > West. > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting > is required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >