The last three postings from me were abstracts of Chancery court cases in Roane County, TN. Their heritage commission is www.roanetnheritage.com They have an excellent staff & web site Joyce Gaston Reece

Officially he would be considered an "Intermarried white". He could claim legal rights for his wife and children but not for himself. IRW and IRC where the initials used for In Right of Wife or In Right of Children Joyce Gaston Reece

I HAVE A QUESTION FOR WHOEVER KNOWS, IF A WHITE MAN MARRIES INTO THE INDIAN FAMILY ARE THEY CONCIDERED AN INDIAN? I HAVE READ MANY REPORTS ABOUT THIS SORT OF THING SO I.M WONDERING???? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dj M" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 1:31 AM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy > Notice that the list is called (Cherokee genealogy) > so folks know we are dealing with Cherokee in mind. > The rest of the conversation goes to [email protected] its like having > a class for math and a class for english you have to go to another room. > Because the lists being archived researchers are spared the drama . > Aho? > yes? > Means the drama is fine on the other group. People join both groups. Those > who want just the facts mamm are here. > as also I have all the roles on my website for download and Judy as well > on access genealogy. > so if we must chatter there is also cherokeechat and cherokeemainvillage > and cherokeeprayer cherokeemusic cherokeehistory ... Oh. You got off that > one .. Well if you really want to pass drama lets use some other group. > Facts. Work on getting and posting facts some times requires conversation. > But not about non related topics. I might not have a phd but I have the > mod > buttons. > Dan > On Dec 4, 2012 8:51 PM, "BARBARA GORDON-LANTTO" <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Hello Dan >> >> MY mother was a Genealogist. She also was the Librarian at the University >> of >> Willamette Oregon. >> >> She died not knowing who she was nor that she was a Cherokee named >> Virginia. >> She died not knowing the story of our family. All she knew was >> Names,Births, Deaths, dates, and locations.And White.All written out on >> a >> big piece of cardboard. She never connected the dots.She never knew why >> her >> mother was "Georgia" >> >> Thanks >> BARB >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dj M" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 8:10 PM >> Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy >> >> >> > This is not a Cherokee study list. >> > Its genealogy. >> > Meaning people connecting names (not) history. >> > [email protected] is where we talk about Cherokee in general. >> > This list is only to help people connect names. >> > The rest is moot here. >> > Thanks. >> > Folks. If you want to chit chat I have a empty group on yahoo calked >> > The >> > American Indian yall can join to battle what info is good or bad. If a >> > name >> > connects.. It connects. I dont see any relivancy to enclosed topic >> > here. >> > Aho? >> > On Dec 4, 2012 6:51 PM, "BARBARA GORDON-LANTTO" <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> > >> > > When researching the Cherokee, one must take all information and then >> > > follow >> > > up till there is no where else to go. >> > > But I would take anything government says with a grain of salt. Just >> use >> > > that information as a set of clues. >> > > >> > > Government says that "if it is not in writing, It never was so." >> > > However, memorising around the camp fire is a long Native tradition. >> > > It >> > > was >> > > part of the learning process, before the Cherokee had to hide. Then >> > > genealogy was hidden.( to protect the family) >> > > >> > > BARB >> > > >> > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: "Alli :)" <[email protected]> >> > > To: <[email protected]> >> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 9:40 AM >> > > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy >> > > >> > > >> > > > I have always taken information given to me with a grain of >> > > > salt....not >> > > > because i didn't believe that the person could be true. But >> > > > because, >> > > > as >> > > > you >> > > > said, its just their word. No back up. >> > > > >> > > > My dad grew up knowing he had Cherokee blood in him. He >> > > > thought/assumed >> > > > that >> > > > it was his grandma who was the full blood or at least 1/2, mainly >> > > > because >> > > > of >> > > > her facial appearance. But also because he went to Tahlequah with >> > > > her >> > > > by >> > > > train to fill out her application for the Eastern Band of Cherokee. >> > > > She >> > > > was >> > > > suppose to go back the next day to answer some more questions, but >> she >> > > > didn't have the money for a hotel room or food for her let alone >> > > > both >> > > > of >> > > > them. Now this is his account of this day. But.....somewhere >> > > > there's >> a >> > > > record of her doing this. I just haven't found it yet. :) >> > > > >> > > > But when I found the applications for his great grandma (my dbl >> > > > great), >> > > he >> > > > wanted to argue because he thought it was his grandma (my great) >> until >> > > > i >> > > > showed him what i found. >> > > > >> > > > The other story is that my great grandma's brother Sam found their >> > > > connection & proved it & he was able to get their land. I have no >> > > > where >> > > to >> > > > look for later proof, but it wasn't with their applications that >> > > > they >> > > > did >> > > > in >> > > > 1907. So I told my dad that just because he said or that his >> > > > grandma >> > > > said...won't work when contacting the CNO, I have to "show" proof >> > > > LOL >> > > > >> > > > I had to laugh when you mentioned the Journal in book form as >> > > > proof. >> I >> > > > have >> > > > a copy of my great grandpa's divorce record....its a "journal" of >> > > > his >> > > > court >> > > > record of asking for a divorce through a court. Its hand written. I >> > > > told >> > > > family on this side of the tree & they wanted to argue because no >> > > > one >> > > knew >> > > > that our great grandpa was married or divorced prior to our great >> > > grandma. >> > > > I >> > > > said he also had 2 kids prior & our uncle from the second marriage >> had >> > > > been >> > > > in touch with them......ohhhhhhh talk about a skeleton filled >> > > > closet >> > > > :) >> > > > >> > > > Alli ;0) >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > > From: "Joyce Gaston Reece" <[email protected]> >> > > > To: <[email protected]> >> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 6:15 AM >> > > > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] genealogy >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >I once knew a doctor's assistant who was Cherokee and a member of >> the >> > > > > Keetowah Band. I once asked her about a written or oral history >> > > > > of >> > > > > the >> > > > > Cherokee Indian. Her simple statement was that there wasn't one. >> > > > > Only >> > > > > an >> > > > > oral history. Then I'm reminded of the 1950's tv show with a man >> > > > > named >> > > > > Art >> > > > > Linkletter. It was an earlier version of today's 'talk show'. >> > > > > At >> > > > > the >> > > > > beginning of one show he went to someone in the first row of the >> > > > > audience >> > > > > and gave them a phrase to pass on to a person in the next row >> > > > > then >> > > wrote >> > > > > down the phrase. Throughout the show the phrase was passed from >> one >> > > > > person >> > > > > to another until it got to the back row of seats. At the end of >> the >> > > > > show >> > > > > Mr. Linkletter asked the person to tell what he'd been told. Not >> > > > > suprisingly, the phrase he was told then was nothing like the >> phrase >> > > > > that >> > > > > he'd begun with. >> > > > > >> > > > > In genealogical circles, oral history is never considered >> > > > > documentation >> > > > > unless there's other evidence to back it up. So, can we accept >> > > Cherokee >> > > > > elder's stories as genealogical family history? >> > > > > >> > > > > BOOKS? Books, according to the highest genealogical standards, >> > > > > are >> > > > > always >> > > > > considered SECONDARY resources. It doesn't matters how many >> > > > > books >> > > > > one >> > > > > reads >> > > > > if the books aren't historically accurate, with citations, >> resources >> > > > > then >> > > > > it >> > > > > is just someone's fictional tale. I've seen many books that >> > > > > resourced >> > > a >> > > > > dozen other books....not one primary resource in the lot. These >> are >> > > not >> > > > > acceptable genealogical proof. Although there are exceptions to >> > > > > this....in >> > > > > my opinion. Journal transcriptions in book form, transcriptions >> > > > > of >> > > > > deeds >> > > > > or >> > > > > other primary resources are acceptable. The journals of Needham >> > > > > & >> > > > > Fallam, >> > > > > Lawson & Gist, for instance. >> > > > > >> > > > > So, when we read someone else's opinion or listen to someone's >> > > > > stories >> > > > > about >> > > > > a history do we accept these in blind faith? Or do we act like >> good >> > > > > researchers and verify the sources, check the facts? The only >> solid >> > > > > documentation we have in most cases of Indian and white >> > > > > relationships >> > > in >> > > > > colonial times are the records kept by the whites. Do we take >> these >> > > > > with >> > > > > grains of salt...sure we do! >> > > > > >> > > > > This and all these lists are for genealogy not mythology. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Joyce Gaston Reece >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== >> > > > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain >> > > > chatting >> > > > is required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. >> > > > >> > > > Rude people will be moderated asap! >> > > > List archive >> > > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene >> > > > Dual admin. >> > > > Dan and Joyce >> > > > ------------------------------- >> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> > > the >> > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > >> > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== >> > > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain >> chatting >> > > is required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. >> > > >> > > Rude people will be moderated asap! >> > > List archive >> > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene >> > > Dual admin. >> > > Dan and Joyce >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> > > the >> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== >> > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain >> > chatting >> > is required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. >> > >> > Rude people will be moderated asap! >> > List archive >> > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene >> > Dual admin. >> > Dan and Joyce >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> =====*NOTICE THIS*===== >> this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting >> is required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. >> >> Rude people will be moderated asap! >> List archive >> http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene >> Dual admin. >> Dan and Joyce >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > this is a generic list; and not topic specific because certain chatting is > required to do genealogy; and sort fact from fiction. > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

JOSEPH VANN McCARTNY, James vs. Joseph VANN - Circuit Court - 1826 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Be it remembered that on Tuesday the second day of this term there came on to be tried the case of James McCARTNEY against Joseph VANN whereupon the plaintiff introduced John McCARTNEY Senr. plaintiff father as a witness Plaintiff having filed his account as required by law amounting as added up to $4965 - 25 cts - with credits on said account of $1352 - 40-3/4 cts which account & credit is here exhibited marked (A) and made a part of this bill of exception said witness proceeded to prove specially the marke done as stated in a bill which witness produced of his own making and which bill is here exhibited, marked (B) and made a part of this bill of exception which bill as stated by witness amounted to $3084-37-1/2 for the House and smoke(?) witness stated that the charges in Plaintiff's bill as filed are as low as any charges that he has known in the county that he lived in the county a long time - that said charges are the regular charges when the marksmen are boarded by the imployer witness stated that VANN boarded plaintiff and hands while engaged in the work witness stated that he heard the contract between VANN & plaintiff at VANNs who then lived & now lives in the limits of Georgia - that plaintiff was to build the dwelling house for deft. in a workman like manner, to have one dollar per foot for madillion baniel and fifty cents for wain scotting, and every other thing he was to do and charge as plaintiff had done WALKER and McNAIR, for whom plaintiff had build houses; witness stated that the work was done in a workman like manner and at as low a price as plaintiff had charged WALKER and McNAIR. McNAIR boarded plaintiff and hands and while doing WALKER work plaintiff boarded himself - witness does not remember the rates of charges or the amount that plaintiff had for building McNAIR and WALKERs houses in the present case was low as they were. Witness stated that he is a carpenter by trade and has been for forty years - and in building the house and make house and saw McCARTNEY hands at work at the Barn & mill. John McCARTNEY Junr. the brother of plaintiff stated that in August 1819 or 1820 he went with his brother the plaintiff and commenced VANN's dwelling house - that he worked at VANN about 18 months - that the last work was done for VANN in Decr. 1823, that the work was done in complete order and work like manner, that he heard plaintiff and deft. talking about the contract before the work was commenced, that plaintiff was to charge VANN for building his house at the same rates at which plaintiff had build McNAIR and WALKER's houses this was agreed to by VANN the work was to be done in workman like manner - VANN boarded plaintiff and his hands while working for VANN - McCARTNEY had the hewing done for the house and was only to charge VANN the workmen's wages - that VANN paid - LAFFTES(?) for a month and a half at $14 per month and Isaac VANN at $12 - per month for the same time, that witness was to have one dollar per day $42 - which was paid witness by VANN there were the ??? witness worked on the barn but the time not remembered for which VANN paid him 5000 feet of hewing and upwards was got out for the house - thought the window frame worth $2.50 cts except two worth $3.50 cash and one shilling per light for the sash. VANN negro boy Ceasor borrow plaintff gun and broke it for which witness heald VANN say he expected to have it to pay. John McCALLAN the brother in law of plaintiff knows but little about the work except the barn - believes the work done on the house to be good work - witness produced a bill marked Exhibit (C) and made a part of this bill of exception VANN boarded the hands while McCARTNEY was at work for VANN - Plaintiff build a manument(?) for McDA NIEL and two ferry boat for himself while his hands were boarding with deft. and while plaintiff was engaged building for deft. - witnessed $94 - from VANN by plaintiff order and that McCARTNEY recd. - an yoke of oxen from VANN at $110 and a horse at $65. Witness states that the barn and the mill not included in his bill and that his bill amount to $2847 - witness states that he did not include the passage(?) doors nor the Pantries(?) except the cornicing and covering and the reason why he did not was because he believed he could not make a correct bill of this work - the barn was for $340 every thing included except the wall which was done by deft. Witness helped to cover the house - and is a carpenter by trade - and assisted in doing a part of the work but did not make out a bill of the whole because he could not do so. Jacob DEORCETH(?) a mill right as he said by trade - introduced his bill for the mill here exhibited marked (D) and made a part of this bill of exception - stated that according to the customary prices the mill and ??? will come to $525 - as stated in his bill when the imployer boards the hands and the work was well done. Aaron HAYNE the brother in law of plaintiff said he heard VANN say in 1823 that he would not build a kitchen untill he paid plaintiff, as he was in debt - GREENAWAY was present. VANN paid witness for plaintiff $22 in bacon salt &c - McCARTNEY got 6500 feet of blanke(?) the bigest part 3 quarter inch blank at at 75 cts the next 1 inch at $1 per hundred foot and $1.25. Witness proved that McCARTNEY recd. $82 in brick from VANN for the coundsel(?) house in 1823 the fall. This was the term agreed on between witness and plaintiff as plaintiff charged this to witness, who was in partnership in building the counsel house. In Dec 1823 VANN told witness that he wanted McCARTNEY to come down or send some person to hang the venitian blinds to his windows as the painter was there. The counsel house had one door and six windows and witness has a faint idea that deft. furnished McCARTNEY with the corkes & hinges for them - witness heard something of McCARTNEY getting window glass from VANN but does not remember how much. Witness stated that he is a millwright by trade and believes the work done on the mill to be well and McCARTNEY charge for the same to be reasonable when the hands are boarded by employer. At the time GREENAWAY went to hang the windows A. HAYNES who observed that in the fall of 1823 that he heard VANN say he had been disappointed in getting coper(?) from Augusta(?). John GREENAWAY a witness who never work at the Carpenter business untill 1822 - work on the fine chimney pieces and fixed some of the work to be put up - He says he was a good tenner(?) & worked at $10 - per month - The mill was the first worked finished and was sawing(?) in the fall of 1822 - he went to VANN in the spring of 1822, and the runing gears of the mill was made after witness went to VANN by HILTERBRAND, not in McCARTNEY employ - witness says all the work was finish previous and in the summer of1823 except haning the venitian blinds which witness done at plaintiff request in the fall of 1823 and heard VANN say that he was indebt for his house and that he thought harder of McCARTNEY about his bill for the barn than anything esle and on being asked again by plaintiff counsel he said that he had asessed(?) some of the work for the chimney pieces. That witness had saw a week or two VANN but does not recollect the precise time, while he was in plaintiff employ GREENWAY stated that he was instructed by plaintiff to put the copper on the valle of roof when he hung the windows & ??? but VANN said he had sent to Augusta for it by McNAIR. Henry NAVE(?) went to VANN's in 1824 to measure the house for McCARTNEY and then his one trial had been had in this case - informed VANN what he had come for Mr. VANN said the witness treated me ??? a gentle man and said the house had been measured often enought - witness thought VANN did not wish him to measure it - VANN took witness to two rooms and witness thought the work about the house was done in a workman like manner - witness went to VANN's at sunset in the evening and left there after breakfast next morning and examined some of work as he went to bed - was three years serving his apperitureship & had worked 7 or 8 years since and had no certain rule for charging - witness examined plaintiff's bill and thinks the charges are customary when the imployer boards the hands - witness stated the plaintiff was a little in his debt and had been for some time, for ?? made for McCARTNEY as his hands. John McCARTNEY Jun. - was called back and stated that his brother had furnished VANN with 5 barrel of meal - and one barrel of flower at $8 - for flour - that his brother build a small cabbin & a little smoke houses for McCARTNEY to live in and hang his meat in - all sound logs - and heard VANN say that he would not be charged so much as his negroes had done the hawling - the meal was delivered in 1819 - witness further stated that he heard a conversation between VANN and McCARTNEY about the valley roofs were found(?) that he heard McCARTNEY tell VANN that he could not make a vally roof without leaking unless he had utter sheet lead or copper; that VANN then said go on and cover the house and I can get some lead or copper and have it put on some other time. Henry H. NAVE futher stated that he believed a valley roof can not be made without leaking unless covered with sheet lead or copper and it is easier to make one covered with copper than without it. John McCARTNEY Senr. stated that said negro levied on in this case runaway from VANN premises in the State of Georgia a short time before he was levied on - witness stated that said VANN was a citizen of Georgia and that said work was done in the State of Georgia in the Cherrokee nation. Joyce Gaston Reece

RACHEL COODY TUTEN -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wiley TUTEN a citizen of the United States having by honorable marriage connected himself with a native of the Cherokee nation and his said wife having since deceased, leaving one daughter in whose right said Wiley TUTEN has this day registered himself in the Cherokee Agents office for a section of land conformably to a treaty concluded between the United States and the Cherokee Nation on the 8th day of July 1817, considering himself at the same time under the protection of the United States & amenable to the laws of the United States. Given under my hand and seal at the Cherokee Agency this 25th May 1818. Return J. MEIGS. ------- FORRESTER, Sarah vs. Henry I. WELCKER & Joseph BYRD - Chancery Court - 1849 To the Hon. Thomas L. WILLIAMS Chancellor &c. sitting in Chancery at Kingston. Humbly complaining Sheweth unto your Honor your oratrix Sarah FORRESTER a citizen of the Cherokee nation of Indians, that her father Wiley TUTEN who was of European extraction married her mother who was a native of the Cherokee tribe of Indians, by whom your oratrix was his sole issue, that as head of an Indian family within the purview and remaining(?) of the treaties made in the years 1817 and 1819 between the United States Government and the Cherokee nation of Indians, he obtained and held as a "reservation" a tract of land, containing six hundred and forty acres more or less on the South side of the Tennessee River on both sides of Paint Rock Creek, in the county of Roane and well known as "The Paint Rock Reservation." Many years ago the mother of your oratrix departed this life and the said Wiley married a second with now living by whom he had issue six children also now living. By the stipulations of the treaty of 1817, re-affirmed by the treaty of 1819, the said Wiley TUTEN had in the said "Reservation" a life estate, with a reversion in fee simple to his children, reserving to the widow her dower." Your oratrix is advised, however, that under the circumstances of this case; the right of dower wound not accrue to Wiley TUTEN's widow who is a woman of European extraction and not an Indian, and the remainder would accrue to your oratrix, as the child of his "previous family," and not to your oratrix jointly with her brothers and sisters of the half blood composing a family in which there is no Indian pedigree. After the death of the said Wiley TUTEN, which occurred, as your oratrix is informed, on the 14th day of Febrary 1842 one half of the land was in the possession of one George W. CHURCHWELL who held by some sort of a title from the said TUTEN as your oratrix has been informed, and the other half was occupied by the said TUTEN's widow and her children. Your oratrix herself has never been in possession of the land nor any part of it. For many years ago she removed with her husband Larkin FORRESTER to the Indian nation west of the Mississippi, where she remained until a few weeks since, when she revisited Tennessee. The value, condition and situation of the said land were therefore unknown to her until that time, except she was informed in the means thereinafter to be disclosed. After something more than a year had elapsed from the death of your oratrix's father, one Henry I. WELCKER of Roane County took steps to secure her right to the said land To effect this purpose, he associated with him, two brothers of her then deceased husband Alexander FORESTER and Solomon FORESTER; to the former of whom, residing in Roane County, he promised an interest in the land, and to the latter residing in the western part of Arkansas a pecuniary reward, believed to be one hundred Dollars or more, if they would succeed in procuring your oratrix to sign a deed for the said land. During the year 1844 WELCKER and Alexander FORESTER made a trip to the west, in order to effect a trade. They represented the land to be of much less than its actual value to be adversely held for a long time by the said CHURCHWELL whom they represented to be an astute lawyer, and a cunning unprincipled man, whom it would require years to evict, if indeed it could ever be done. Your oratrix had no near kinsman of her own to advise her and inform her; her husband was dead and her children were small. And her relatives by the said of her husband were in the interest of WELCKER misled and over pursuaded by their representations and solicitations she consented to sell her right to the said land for five hundred dollars of which WELCKER paid her one hundred dollars. No deed was drawn at that time. Your oratrix presumes because WELCKER wanted him to have it down with such formalities as are required by law. The subsequent history of the transaction will be best understood by passages from the letters written by WELCKER to Solomon FORESTER after that time. The first is as follows. Van Buren Ark. Jany 25/44 Mr. FORISTER The enclosed letter is a power of attorney to another man by the name of PATTEN which you will please have signed & certified in the same manner that the other is, for fear that CLARK will not serve, but send the one to CLARK first. Yours &c, H.J. WELCKER The next bears date" Kingston Tennessee. 19th February 1844. Dear Sir, I have been at home a few days and I find that your brother and myself was suspicioned for going out to buy Sarah FORRESTER's land, in fact, your brother, contrary to all expectations, on my part, had made his object known to his folks here and they told it before we had been gone a week. I am very sorry he had not listened to my advice on this subject as it may be the cause of some trouble; and I think it the more stranger, as in fact, if our trip was successful, he was to be as much benefitted as any one else. CHURCHWELL has already taken the alarm and started & will be out soon. I expect He says he can manage the Indians. I suppose he intends to make a compromise. If he calls on you try and keep him from finding out anything about matters in any way. It might be as well to make him believe that she was getting some of her friends in that country to assist her and that she was determined to take her own cause; and that it would be unnecessary to go to see her. But if he or any others should go out to see her, I wish you to manage to the best advantage, there will be some them out certain. Dr. John W. WESTER & Thomas A. BROWN both talk of going out; & I think if CHURCHWELL does not succeed they will try it next, for I will not let them know anything about her intentions. Their greatest object seems to be to spite, and if they could do so they would freely lay out their money. If you have a chance of seeing Mrs. FORRISTER after you get this, put her on her on guard, they are a cunning set of fellows, and would stop at no sort of lies to prejudice her mind. I have written to her to day to let her know what is going on. You must be certain and attend to the papers left with you as nothing will be done until they are sent. If I am not very much mistaken in Mrs. FORRESTER they will find her both smarter and more honest than they think for. Henry I. WELCKER To Mr. Solomon FORRESTER Natural Dam(?), Ark. The next letter is as follows: "Kingston Tennessee May 24, 1844. Dear Sir, I received your letter of the 31st March for which I am under many obligations to you. I received by the same mail a letter from the widow written at Park Hill. She says that she had just received a letter from me which I wrote at the same time I wrote to you, and it was to let her know that I supposed that CHURCHWELL was going out to that country, as he went to that state, but he is back now & I suppose he did not go that free(?). The widow says she had started to sign the papers at Van Buren, but that when she got to Park Hill she got my letter, and one from Thomas A. BROWN, and after comparing the letters she came to the conclusion that Alexr. FORRESTER & myself had gone out there to cheat her out of her land. She says that BROWN says in his letter that we went out there to buy it for CHURCHWELL and the object was to cheat her out of it, and that if I will come out there and pay her two thousand dollars for it she will make a title for it &c. The truth is she cannot make a title for it, until she gets the possession of it. I can not for my life imagine what has caused the widow to change her notion, with regard to the matter. If I had not had any confidence in her being a lady that could not be influenced by any body to change her notion after making a firm and positive arrangement about the transaction of her business, I would not had anything to do with it. You recollect yourself that you told me she was a lady that could be relied on in anything to do with the transaction of that business; and what makes it seem ?? strange to me, is that she said she would not pay any attention to any letters that any of the BROWN's or CHURCHWELL might send her; as they are a set of folks that have always been acting together and care as little for what they say a ?? as the wind. Never was even surprised at any thing than I was at her letter; and I yet believe that when she reflects cooly about the matter she will change her notion about my intentions unless she has lost her reason. I think she will after reflecting see through BROWN's object. BROWN's brother in law made his brags before I got home that if I went to see Mrs. FORRESTER, I would be badly fooled, that letters had been sent on to her that would put her out of the notion of having anything to do with us; and it seems by his lies he has alarmed her bad enough. The truth is the most of the expenses attending that suit has already been incurred and she can never do anything with it until she gains it, if it is ever gained; And CHURCHWELL and his friends swear that they will take ten years before they will give it up, and there is a great uncertainty you know about how law suits go Nobody knows what will be proved until the trial comes on and the one that makes the best proof gains it. As soon as it was found out that she would try to get the land back, old Major BROWN as agent for CHURCHWELL leased every foot of the land out, so if she was here she could soon see whether the BROWNs are her friends. I have no doubt that Thom. A. BROWN told her that he would give her a big price for her claim to keep her from making any arrangement with any body else. If you see her, if she will let you have BROWN's letter, send it to me, send a copy of it any how. Henry I. WELCKER To. Mr. S. FORRESTER The next letter in the Series is as follows. "Kingston Tenn 14th June 1844. Dr. Sir I wrote to you not long since in which I enclosed are to be sent to Mr. B. my object was to pester him, though if you have not sent it back yet, you can burn it, as I do not know whether it would do anything more than make him mad and it might make him use greater exertions to defeat us. I have understood that Mr. B. does not care to ??? about having anything to do with the business after finding out some particulars connected with it. He has received a letter from Mrs. FORRESTER and has put one in the office today for her. I do not want you to do anything with money I left with you untill I give further directions If you see Mrs. S. FORRESTER, and she does not wish to carry out her contract, get back the money I let her have, and say to her that I will still do what I said; but if she thinks I am the swindler she took to be, I will expect her at least to pay back all she got; and if Mr. BROWN or any one else can do any better, let them do it. Yet I do not believe the widow about this matter altogether, she is a woman & some one has made her believe I would give a big price & that she had been swindled, though she and her advisers will find the risk is too great for any one who has a knowledge of the true situation of this matter to venture as much as they could buy a good place with. If you see her & she feels like sticking. I will write her a new power of attorney & send it to you & get you to attend to it, as the ones left with you could not suit. Your friend, H.I. WELCKER The next letter is as follows. Kingston, Tenn. 16th October 1844 Mr. Solomon FORESTER, Dear Sir, I intended to write to you and Mrs. Sarah FORESTER some time ago, but I did not know what to write, as things here were in a jumbled up condition about the reservation place; and the ??? my lawyers examine it, the ??? difficult the case seems to be. The course I am now aclaimed to take is to get the enclosed Deed signed and properly witnessed by two witnesses and acknowledged by Mrs. FORESTER. If Mrs. FORESTER has gone back to the nation & will not like to return to Van Buren for the purpose of acknowledging the deed, I wish you to be certain and go to see her & take some one with you; and you and that person can witness the deed & take it to Van Buren & have it property proven by you both & all the necessary certificates attached, and send it to me just as soon as it can be done. Mr. FORESTER, I wish you, when Mrs. Sarah FORESTER signs the deed, to pay her the two hundred dollars I left with you for that purpose and to pay her one hundred Dollars out of your own money for us. If you have not got the money, borrow it and I will pay the interest and pay you for your trouble. I hope you will attend to this at once as I fear that I will lose all my trouble and expense, unless it is done immediately; and it has already cost more trouble and expenses than I thought it would to have gained the land and I have now lost all hopes of ever getting more than half of it. If you will attend to this business for me and pay the other one hundred dollars to Mrs. FORESTER for me, and send the deed to me, and let me know how much I must pay you for your trouble & expense in the matter, I pledge you my word and honor, that I will send you the money by mail at my own risk just as soon as the deed gets to my hands, because I do believe if I do not get the deed soon I will never get one cent for my trouble & all that I have spent. I am very respectfully your Friend. Henry I. WELCKER The next letter in the series bears date "Kingston 25 Decr. 1844" and the following is the only extract deemed worthy to be made "Dear Sir. Some time in October last I wrote you a letter and send a deed for Mrs. Sarah FORRESTER to sign, and asked your to attend to it for me. I have waited for the deed to get back or for you to answer my letter until I am getting paid you have not got it. I am very anxious to hear from you & I hope you will let me hear what you have done or can do at soon as you get this. If you can get the deed, I hope you will do so as soon as you can & send it as there is danger in delaying the matter any longer. I am yours &c. H.I. WELCKER To Mr. S. FORRESTER Natural Dam Ark. The next letter is as follows. "Kingston Ten. January 13th 1845 Dear Sir, I wrote to you sometime I think, in October, and sent you a blank deed and requested you to attend to getting Mrs. Sarah FORRESTER to assign it and to get it regularly proven before a Notary Public, or before the Judge & clerk of your court &c. I also requested you to either pay Mrs. FORRESTER out of your own funds one hundred dollars, or to tell her that I would do so on the recept of the Deed, and also to pay her over what money you had on hand belonging to me &c. Not long after I sent you this letter I received a letter from the Post Master at Natural Dam saying that you had requested him to write to me and let me know that Mrs. FORRESTER was at your house and was ready to enter in to the agreement we made. I was glad to hear this & I always thought that when she came to look on the matter & reflect on it that she would do so. I had received some letters from you before I sent the deed to you but I did not know what to say to you about the business. I wish you if you have not attended to getting the deed before you get this, to attend to it, at once, as it must be attended to soon or it will be too late. If you did not get my other letter & the deed, I hope you will not delay the matter as I want to get through with it as soon as I can, as I think it likely I may have this place before long; and if I do not get this business attended to soon of course, I will lose both time, trouble and money by it. I want you to do this ??? for me and then make me pay for your trouble in attending to it. I hope you will write to me just as soon as you get this letter and let me know what you have done, or what you will do, or what you think you can do; it will only take you a minute to write and it may save me of much trouble and expense. You may rely on all that I have said to you about this business. Old George STEWART was in to see me this week. He wants me to give him a hundred dollars and he will fix it for me. He says that Luna RILEY can make her do just as he pleases & that he can fix RILEY. The truth is if BROWN can through STEWART, get her to believe that I have deceived her, he will do so, and keep her fooling about until CHURCHWELL gets a good title to the place, and then she can whistle for her place and I can whistle for my money. STEWART told me that his son George was going to Arkansas soon, he may have started already, and if I did not pay pretty well, I might, or I would have every thing torn up &c. &c. The old man must think I am a great fool to give every body money that thought they had a little influence with Mrs. FORRESTER. I think BROWN is at the lead of it, & thinks as I have paid out some money already, that I would pay a little sum rather than be defeated. Your Friend, H.I. WELKCER To Solomon FORRESTER, Esq. >From the foregoing letters, will be seen what means was resorted to by WELCKER, what motives and influences were used to induce your oratrix to part with her estate for a little more than one twentieth part of its value. Her friends & relatives, who were supposed and truly(?) by him, to have personal influence over her, then were subsidized, one under the premise of sharing in the fruits of the bargain, the other under a promise of a large reward for his services, when ??? he should get the deed signed. The land was represented to be adversely(?) held, by CHURCHWELL, a rafercious(?) cunning trying(?) man, from whom it would require two years litigation to recover it. ??? even the result would be extremely doubtful. Those persons, who it was thought by him, were likely to give your oratrix more correct information, were denounced as liars confederating with CHURCHWELL to defeat the sale of the land to WELCKER & others to deprive her of any benefit or advantage from the estate. All these things were repeated to her by the said Solomon FORESTER, who probably deriving his ideas from WELCKER's letters, to him, & dishonorable action; threatened with his displeasure & the withdrawal of his friendship & support, in case she refused to make a deed to WELCKER, told her that unless it was done at once it would be too late & she would lose ??? all benefit from the property & be compelled to refund to WELCKER the bonus or earnest money which he had prevailed upon her to receive, & which in her poverty, it would have been difficult to pay back; represented WELCKER as the only friend to her & family, in this country & as kindly interfering to prevent her from being swinddled & cheated by CHURCHWELL and his advisers, aiders & abetters; and told her that she ??? expect anything from the property but what WELCKER then offered her, and that it was optimal with her to take that or to get nothing. Moved by their various considerations, and almost actually forced by the said Solomon FORRESTER, your oratrix executed a deed to WELCKER for the consideration of five hundred dollars, under a vague apprehension indeed, that the property was worth ???, but not dreaming of its actual value; and believing that it was in such a situation as to be wholly unavailing to her; and impressed(?) with the idea that she was bound in honor, morals and good conscience to abinde by and comply with the premise which WELCKER had managed to obtain from her at the first. While in truth and in fact the said land is variously estimated to be worth from $1000 to $10,000 & as your oratrix is advised, is worth the latter sum. And so far from being difficult to recover, she is advised, that it would, in ???, have been necessary to do were then to bring an action of ejectment, to which no legal defense whatever could have been made; as proof of the correctness of which vein, the said WELCKER almost immediately took possession of a large part & now with one Joseph BYRD of Roane County is in possession of the whole. The inadequacy of the consideration is so gross as of itself, as your oratrix is advised, to shock the moral sense and to be conclusive evidence of fraud. This added to the circumstances attending & proceding the execution of the said deed will, as she is advised avoid the same in a court of Equity. Besides from what has been shown, it will be seen that at the time the land was ??? held & had since been in the possession of the your oratrix in that the deed is in contradiction of the Statute, commonly called the Champerty(?) act. When, at length, your oratrix, became more fully informed of her rights in this behalf, She returned to Tennessee an instituted an action of ejectment in her own ??? and also in the name of herself & the heirs of Wiley TUTEN the half blood for the recovery of the land, which actions are now pending in the Circuit Court of Roane County. In order to remove the ??? upon her title she is advised that it is proper to come into this court to have the deed aforesaid avoided & canceled. To the said suits the said WELCKER & BYRD have been admitted as defendants. In addition to what your oratrix has stated relation to the circumstances attending the execution of this deed, she will add that, Solomon FORESTER sent a message to her to come from the Cherokee nation to visit his sick wife; that when she came then he urged her to come to Van Buren to execute the deed pressing upon her that motions & reasons heretofore stated & when your oratrix hesitated, he became more urgent & she finally went with him to Van Buren. Still she was reluctant to execute the deed, but he told her that it was all she could get for the land, that she was bound by every principle to do so, & at last with great violence told her she must do so. She found out afterwards that he was acting under a still stranger inducement than the reward offered by WELCKER. For he had spent the $200 left with him by WELCKER & found he would be required to replace it. While on the other hand he could put off your oratrix with premises which he ?? having paid her in all but $50. So that every cent which she has received for the land is $150. The premises considered, your oratrix, prays that the said WELCKER & BYRD may be made parties defendant to this bill with afterwards(?) to change them; and that they be compelled full, true and perfect answer to make to all the several allegations thereof, as fully as though the ??? were repeated in the force of interrogations, more especially but WELCKER answer & say whether the letters were written by him that are copied into the bill & whether the extracts therefrom are correctly made. In the mean time she prays that the defendants may be injoined from ??? upon a trial of suits at law until such time as your ??? may direct. And on the final hearing she asks that the said deed may be delivered up to be cancelled and for such other& further relief as is suited to the nature of the case consistently with the rules of this Honorable court. This is the first application for an injunction in the case. Sarah FORRESTER. Filed 26 Mar 1849. She later dismissed her case. John Den lessee of Wyley TUTEN vs. John SCOTT & others - Circuit Court -1826 Robert ARMSTRONG proved that he made the Survey of which the foregoing is a copy under authority from the United States TUTEN was then living on the land in a new cabin the Land as run off is partly above and partly below the mouth of paint rock creek and included his TUTENs house in the center. Plaintiff read the Deposition of Isaac DAVIS marked A Joseph BRYANT marked B Isaac WALKER marked C Caleb STARR(?) marked D and Thomas N. CLARK marked E which is to be Taken as part of this Bill of Exceptions And also the Deposition of James G. WILLIAMS marked F also to be Taken as part of this Bill of Exceptions . . . Isaac BYRD for Plaintiff stated that he was well acquainted with Archibald COODY who was a native of the Cherokee nation and his Daughter to whom the Lessee of the plaintiff was married COODY was a native Entitled to all the rights and privaeges of the nation he BYRD as a Justice of the peace for Roane county married Wily TUTEN in the year 1807 to Racheal COODY and from that period up to the date of the Treaties TUTEN was acknowledged to be a member of the Indian nation and admitted as far as he knew to an Equal and full participation of all the rights of a nation he resided on the south side of Tennessee river on the Indians Land up to the date of the Treaties the ceded Treaty at the date of Jacksons Treaty as well as the date of Calhouns Treaty at the Date of Jacksons Treaty he thinks TUTEN Lived on a place which was sold by TUTEN and RODGERS to him in the Spring of 1818 and was included but was not positive that he moved to and resided on the Land in Dispute before and at the date of his registry for a reservation To wit on the 25th of May 1818 was certain TUTEN resided on Land in dispute at the date of Calhouns Treaty and witness Lived in roan county a few miles below the Islands - is and has been for thirty years well acquainted with the Twin Islands in Tennessee the islands them(?) Derrominated(?) consists of a cluster of small Islands six in number nearly together and one Large Island the upper end of which comes above the Lower end of the six Islands and Extends down the river the islands thus situated he has always Known as the Seven Islands has heard them so called by all the people acquainted with them for thirty years past - and the reservation as surveyed lies opposite to them there are Islands in the river a few miles below several in number above and below where he witness lives which is five or six miles below land in dispute but he has never heard them called the Seven Island one called and known by Big island and one round Island & specified names to each they extend several miles down the river below where he witness lives the first wife of TUTEN who was Rachael COODY Died leaving one child who lived with him TUTEN at the date of the Treaties he was then married to a white woman BYRD proved that TUTEN always lived on the Indians Land up to the Treaty of 1817 & 1819 that he was at TUTENs house on the land Dispute before and about the treaty of 1819 and his indian daughter was living with him For Deft. Thos. C. HENDERSON and Robert S. GILLILAND Stated that all the Islands in the Tennessee river beginning at the cluster spoken of by BYRD and Extending several miles down the river they have all ways understood there to be and heard them called the seven Islands in Tennessee Robert S. GILLILAND also proved that the tenants in possession on whom notice was served lived on the Same in Dispute at the commencement fo the suit Plaintiff relied on the treaties of 1817 and 1819 with the cherokee Indians Joseph BYRD stated that he was acquainted with the islands in that part of the river from his boyhood and fished among them and counted them that the Islands described by Jesse BYRD towit six small ones and one large one he has always heard called the seven Islands the others Below was never so called so far as he had heard that Each below the said cluster and Long Island had a specific name one big Island one Round Island &c. Witness is of opinion that TUTEN Lived on the place sold to Isaac BYRD on the 25 May 1818 his reason for so thinking is that he was married in the early part of the year 1819 and went to live on the place sold to J. BYRD his father during the year That soon after TUTEN Left It which he thinks was in 1818 his father rented the place to one GILBREATH and GILBREATH went on the place in the winter of 1818 and 1819 that GILBREATH took possession not Long after It was left by TUTENs in 1818 and witness himself moved on the Land not Long after GILBREATH went on it Witness also proved that he knew Wily TUTEN and his wife Rachael COODY who was a native of the nation from his boyhood that TUTEN have a Daughter by Rachael COODY who was Living with him in 1817 & 1819 at the Date of the Treaties that Witness was issuing commissary at the date of Jacksons Treaty & Issued to TUTEN Rassions as any other Indian TUTEN having his order from Indian agents as other Indians again at the Treaty of 1819 Witness was captain of the Troops guarding the provisions TUTEN again drew his rations as and Indian and messed with said witness as they was well acquainted and TUTEN was always acknowledged as Entitled to the privilege of a native - Thomas STOCKTON for 30 odd years has known the seven Islands having all that time lived within a few miles of them in the river. They are spoken and described by I. BYRD and Joseph BYRD he has never heard the islands below called any part of the seven Islands Witness has been among them often and counted them and there are seven in the small cluster besides the Long on the Islands below have always had specific names and never was called any part of the several Island about one fourth of a mile above the seven Islands one called BAILEYs &c the Land in dispute is opposite the seven Islands in Tennessee river TUTEN was living on It before Treaty of 1819 and his indian Daughter with him TUTEN was always considered entitled to the privaleges of a native after his marriage with Rachael COODY he Lived on south side of Tennessee river till after Treaty of 1821 when removed by writ off Land in dispute STOCTON proved that when the solders came round to Drive out the whites settled on Indians Land they did not intersept(?) with TUTEN but considered him as a native the pilot or interpretor an Indian so stated It The counsel for the Defendant insisted and called on the Court to charge the Jury If they was satisfied from the Evidence TUTEN registered himself for a reservation at the place he and ROGERS sold to BIRD being the place on which BIRD now lives that he could not have his reservation surveyed and Laid off at another place Towit the Land now in dispute they also insisted that Wily TUTEN was not Entitled To a reservation -- But the Court charged the Jury that most of the points in this cause was settled by the opinion given in this cause where before the Supreme court which opinion or part of It was read by the Court to the Jury, that the Doctrine applicable to special entries did not apply to cases of reservations but came on a supposition that It did I might possibly be contended with success that this was a good special entry and referred to 3d Haywood Tennessee reports the Judge further charged the Jury that registration is primafacius evidence that TUTEN was the head of an Indian family Entitled to take reservation. Again with the proof to remove this presumption is Examined if the Jury should be satisfied that TUTEN was married to Rachael COODY a Daughter of Archy or Archibald COODY a half blood Cherokee by a white wife all resident in the ceded Treaty such proof would make him the head of an Indian family and that If his wife was dead and a child by her was Living with him at the date of the Treaty this would be family enough for him to be the head of a family under the Treaties and if with such family whatever other family he may have had he Lived in the ceded Territory with the privaleges of a cherokee from some time before the Treaties until removed by the sheriff from the place in dispute this would make him the head of an Indian family so as to Enable him to take a reservation. Again as to the place of the reservation It is not important where the register may designate it or what other improvements TUTEN may have sold and It TUTEN was resident on the Land in dispute from 1818 to and on the first day of January 1820 this will sufficiently Locate the claims the Jury formed a verdict for the plaintiff the Defendant moved for a New Trial which was refused by the court To which opinion of the court in refusing a new trial and also the charge of the Judge the Defendant excepts may be made a part of the record and signed and sealed by the Judge now here which is done accordingly. Edward SCO TT [Seal]. A copy of Exhibit A The Deposing part of the Deposition of Isaac DAVIS Q. By the plaintiff how long have you been acquainted with the COODY family. A. About Eighteen years Q. By same ware they natives of the Cherokee nation A. They were. Q. By the same how long have you been acquainted with me and my family. A. About Eighteen years. Q. By the same ware I entitled to the privaleges of the nation on account of my wife who was one of the COODY family. A. You ware. Q. By same Did you take protection under me on what is called the reservation including the mouth of paint rock. A. I did. Q. By the same how long since you took protection under me. A. I think in the year 1815. I remained there until Samuel MARTIN took possession which I think was in the year 1818. Q. By the same what time did I move on said Tract of Land A. In the spring of the year 1819. Q. By Deft. was not Charles COODY in the possession of the same in 1817 and 1818 and did you know that he sold his cherokee claim and improvements to the agent of the United States and that Samuel MARTIN got possession of that date and did not COODY tell you that he had sold all his improvements that Samuel MARTIN had bought from the Agents. A. I Do not recollect whether he was in possession in the year 1817 & 1818 I understood he had sold all his improvements to the agent of the U. States under belief and opinion I leased from S. MARTIN as I understood to leased from the agent I dont recollect that COODY ever told me any thing about it. Q. By the plff. Do you Know whether COODY was moving from one place to another to cut me out of my place. A. It was so said. Thos. STOCKTON, J.P. The Deposing part of the Deposition of Joseph BRYANT Q. By the plaintiff do you know of your knowledge that I was lawfully married to Rachel COODY the daughter of Archibald COODY. A. I Do and think you ware married in 1817. Q. By the same do you know that Sally FORRISTER who I held the reservation for was the daughter of Rachel TUTEN the Daughter of Archibald COODY. A. I understood by the woman who did know that she was Rachel TUTENs daughter who was your wife. Q. By Defendant do you not know that there are more men concerned(?) in TUTENs suit against MARTIN for the Land he calls the reservation if so who they are. A. I have understood that Larkin FORRISTER was conserned also CHURCHWELL & LEA attornies and did hear some person say FORRISTER & CHURCHWELL has been Talking about Leading(?) for some time past If FORRISTER gained the land and further this deponent sayeth not. Joseph BRYANT. Thos. STOCKTON, J.P. Deposing part of the Deposition of Isaac WALKER. Q. By the ptff. ware you acquainted with Archibald COODY and his family. A. I was. Q. By the same ware they not deemed(?) natives of the Cherokee nation and Entitled to all the rights and privaleges of natives. A. They were. Q. By the same was you acquainted with me and my family while I was connected with the COODY family by marriage. A. I was acquainted with her while she lived and you since. Q. By same do you Know what time I moved to paint rock of the reservation. A. I think in the year 1818 or 1819. Q. By the same do you know whether I first improved that place at paint rock or not as a native. A. I think you did. Q. By Deft. Do you know that COODY wife was a white woman and the sister of Samuel RILEY. A. I understood that she was the sister of Samuel RILEY who lived near COODYs on Rileys Creek and understood she was a white woman and further this Deponent sayeth not. Isaac WALKER Thos. STOCKTON, J.P. A Copy of Exhibit D. Deposing Deposition of Caleb STARR Question First by the plaintiff how long has it been since you were acquainted with old Archibald COODY and family. Ans. Twenty five years. Q. Was you acquainted at that time with Rachael COODY his Daughter. Answer I had seen her tho she was small. Q. Was you not acquainted with her till after I the plaintiff in the action married her. Ans. I was. Q. Was she not always recognized and acknowledged a native of the cherokee nation. A. She was always acknowledged she was about a Quarteroon. Q. after I married her was I not allowed the full privaleges of the Cherokee nations with rights of a native. Ans. fully so. Questions at the Time you was paying for Indian improvements or at any time since did I ever wish you to value my possessions or did I in any way make or surrender of them to you. Ans. You did not Nor I niver paid you or any other person for them and further this Deponents sayeth not sworn to and subscribed to this 10th day of August 1827 before me. Caleb STARR William COOK Justice of the Peace for McMinnn County. Copy of Exhibits E. Deposing part of the Deposition of Thos. N. CLARK Question by plaintiff how long have you been acquainted with Archibald COODY and his family. Ans. I was acquainted with Archibald COODY from the year 1800 until his Death. Question Was he always considered a native of the Cherokee nation and he and his family entitled to the privalege of the nations. Ans. I always understood that they ware. Q. 3 Ware you acquainted with his daughter Rachael COODY before and after her marriage. Ans. I was. Q. 4. Do you know whether I was entitled to the privaleges of a native of the Cherokee nation after my marriage with Rachael COODY or do you where I lived. Ans. I cannot say whether you ware entitled to the privaleges of the natives of the cherokee nation but believe you resided mostly on the south side of the Tennessee river. Q 1st by Deft. was not the mother of Rachael COODY a white woman. Ans. I always understood her as such. 2d. by same was It understood by you from the Knowledge you had with the customs of the Cherokee nations that a white woman marrying in the nation entitled her to the privalege of a native. Ans. I never conceived that It did and further this Deponent sayeth not. Thomas N. CLARK Copy of Exhibit F Jas. G. WILLIAMS sub Agent for the United States for the Cherokee nation after being duly sworn the truth to speak Deposeth and sayeth that upon Examination of the register of Lifetime reservations I find Willy TUTEN in right of his Daughter Two in family to include the place where he now lives opposite to the seven Islands in Tennessee May 25, 1818. Q. by ptff. Agent is this certificate here presented signed by Col. Return J. MEIGS. Ans. It is. Question. Are you acquainted with his hand writing and is he dead. Ans. I am and he is Dead. Q. Is this signature to this certificate of Wiley TUTEN reservation. Ans. It is. Is TUTENs name registered in on the List. Ans. Lewis ROSSs handright as also the body of the certificate of registration Lewis ROSSs wrote. Q. Was Lewis ROSS at that time a clerk for old MEIGS Indian agent. Ans. He was. Q. by agents Major BROWN Did Wily TUTEN register his name for any other reservation or at any other place. Ans. He did not and further this Deponant sayeth not. Jas. G. WILLIAMS. Wiley TUTEN a Citizen of the United States having by honorable marriage connected himself with a native of the Cherokee nation and his said wife and his said wife having since Deceased Leaving one daughter in whose right said Wily TUTEN has this day registered himself in the cherokee agents office for a section of Land conformably to a Treaty concluded between the United States and the Cherokee nation on the 8th day of July 1817 considering himself at the same time under the protection of the United States and aminable(?) to the Laws of the United States. Given under my hand and seal at the Cherokee agency this 25th day of May 1818. Return J. MEIGS. Joyce Gaston Reece

Broom MONTGOMERY, Hugh, agent of the Cherokee Nation &c. vs. John BROWN - Circuit Court - 1832 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- State of Tennessee, Roane County. In the Circuit Court March Term 1831. Hugh MONTGOMERY, agent for the Cherokee Nation, Successor of Joseph Mc MINN, Successor of Return J. MEIGS, deceased, late agent of the Cherokee Nation, by his attorney complains of John BROWN in custody &c. of a plea of covenant broken. For that whereas, the said John BROWN, heretofore, to wit, on the first day of July 1817, at the Cherokee Agency in said county, executed and delivered to the said Return J. MEIGS, as agent of the Cherokee Nation, his certain covenant in writing Sealed with his seal, and now here to the court shown, bearing date the day and year last aforesaid, wherein and whereby, he the said defendant, as agent of William KELLY, did agree and bind himself that the negroes taken by said William KELLY from the BROOM, a Cherokee chief in the fall of the year 1813, that is to say Easter and Elyas or Esabella, should be returned to the said Return J. MEIGS, by the name and description of Colo. R.J. MEIGS, agent for the Cherokee Nation on or before the first day of September 1817, or two other negroes of equal value, at the valuation of Thomas N. CLARK, or the valuation of said CLARK in money. And the said plaintiff, in fact says, that afterwards, to wit, on the __ day of January 1823, the said Return J. MEIGS, to whom said negroes by the tenor and effect of said covenant, were to be delivered & before the same were delivered departed this life, to wit, in the county aforesaid; and afterwards, to wit, on the __ day of __ in the year __- the said Joseph McMINN was appointed successor of the said Return J. MEIGS deceased, as agent of the Cherokee Nation, and afterwards, and before the said negroes were delivered according to the tenor and effect of said covenant, to wit, on the __ day of ___ in the year ___ said Joseph McMINN departed this life, and the plaintiff on the __ day of ___ in the year ___ was appointed by the President of the United States, agent of the Cherokee Nation as successor of the said Joseph McMINN, successor of said Return J. MEIGS, and before the said negroes in the said covenant specified, were delivered to the said agent according to the tenor and effect thereof Whereby an action has accrued to said plaintiff, as successor of said Return J. MEIGS, agent of the Cherokee nation to have and demand from the said defendant the said negroes in the said covenant specified according to the tenor and effect of said covenant. Yet the said defendant did not, on the first day of September 1817, according to the tenor of the covenant, deliver the said negroes therein specified, nor two others of equal value, at the valuation of said CLARK in money to the said Return J. MEIGS as agent of the Cherokee Nation, or at any day after the said first day of September 1817, and before the death of the said Return J. MEIGS, nor did he deliver said negroes nor two others, nor their valuation in money as aforesaid to the said Joseph McMINN sucessor of said MEIGS, while he continued to be agent, nor has he delivered the said negroes nor two others, nor their valuation in money as aforesaid to the said plaintiff, since he became agent, according to the tenor and effects of the said convenant, and although often requested so to do, has not as yet delivered the said negroes, nor two others, nor their valuation in money aforesaid, to the plaintiff as agent as aforesaid, but so (torn) hath hitherto wholly neglected and refused, to the damage of the plaintiff (torn) 1500 dollars. Therefore he sues, and has pledges to prosecute it. MEIGS (torn). Hugh MONTGOMERY agent of the Cherokee Nation vs. John BROWN. The defendant by his attorney comes into court and craves(?) oyer(?) of the covenant declared on in the plaintiff's declaration, and it is read to him in the words and figures following, to wit, "I as the agent of William KELLY from the Broom, a Cherokee chief in the fall of the year 1813, that is to say Easteer and Elyas or Esabella, shall be returned to Colo. R.J. MEIGS agent for the cherokee nation, on or before the first day of Sept. next, or two other negroes of equal value, at the valuation of Thos. N. CLARK, or the valuation of said CLARK in money - To be delivered by the said MEIGS to the individual who claimed them in the nation when taken, or his giving good & sufficient security, that the property detained or vallue(?) thereof be redelivered to the said KELLY on his order or his Establishing his right & claim to the property so taken & title. Given under my hand this 1st day of July 1817. John BROWN (Seal). Test. Andrew JACKSON." All of which being read and heard by said defendant he, by his attorney comes and defends the wrong and injury when &c. and says that the said plaintiffs declaration and the matters therein contained in manner and form as the same are therein stated and set forth, are not sufficient in law for the said Hugh MONTGOMERY to have or maintain his aforesaid action thereof against him, the said defendant, and that he the said defendant is not bound by the law of the land to answer the same and this he is ready to verify; wherefore for want of a sufficient declaration in this behalf, the said defendant prays judgment, and that said plaintiff may be banned from having or maintaining his aforesaid action thereof against him &c. T.L. WILLIAMS atto. Joyce Gaston Reece

Joyce , Judy and Alli, Much appreciate all the info and clarifications and thoughts of more to come after finals! Thanks Susan - Do well! Terri

Judy I do not nor have I seen any documentation that Granny Hopper was mother to the McDaniel children. She was, by all indications, the daughter of Old Hop but I've not seen documentation of that either. One of the others, Susan or Kathie may have something but I don't. Neither have I seen documents that verify or alledge to William or David McDaniel being the father of the McDaniels. There is a William McDaniel who received a North Carolina 1817-1819 Reservation and that's all I know of him. On the other hand I have seen testimony that the mother of Alex McDaniel was Nancy Bolin. There is a James and John McDaniel in Roane, McMinn, Meigs & Rhea Counties but I've not researched them enough to say they were of Cherokee descent. By what I have seen they appear to be mostly white. Joyce Gaston Reece

Moytoy as Indian: Researchers have available the transcriptions of Hernando Desoto in the 1540's as visiting the Cherokee on the Tenasi (now called Little Tennessee) River. He did not use the name Moytoy. Juan Pardo came 26 years later. He, too, visited the Indians but with much fewer records. The next expedition was in 1670. Lederer turned back back in fear of the Spainards before reaching the Appalachians. In 1673, Abraham Wood sent a letter to Mr. Richards in London. This expedition went to a 'town of in habitance'. "They journeyed nine days from Occhonechee to Sitteree, west and by south, past nine rivers and creeks which all end in this side the mountains and empty themselves into the east sea. Sitteree being the last town of inhabitance and not any path further until they came within two days journey of the Tomahittans. They traveled from thence up the mountains upon the sun setting all the way and in four days get to the top, sometimes leading their horses sometimes riding....." Most scholars believe the Tomahittans were the earliest 'known' Cherokee. Abraham Wood writes of Indian John/Hasecoll, James Needham, Gabriel Arthur. He doesn't name any other Indians. Charleston SC was founded in 1674 by a group with Henry Woodward. Who began trading with the Westoe Indians who were to become the 'middlemen' between the Carolinians and the Cherokee. JAMES MOORE wrote..."took up seven sorts of ore or mineral stones, all differing either in weight, colour, smell or some other qualities, By my friend, Col. Maurice Matthews, I had these tried in England. He sent word two were very good and one indifferent. On the same Journey I was informed that the Spaniards had been at work within 20 miles of me. The natives described to me their bellows and furnaces and said they killed the Spaniards for fear they would make slaves of them to work in the mines as they had other Indians. The places where I took up the ores are much nearer Ashley River than any place now inhabited by the Spaniards or French"..... By 1716 Alexander Long was known to be living among and trading with the Cherokee. A total of 848,363 deer skins had been exported to Great Britain alone over the previous 16 years. (1700). Long was with the Cherokee prior to 1710. Eleazer Wiggin is recorded as acting as interpreter in 1711. In May of 1714 is when we get the first real taste of recorded data. Long was accused of attempting to cut off trade between the British and the Euchee's. Colonel George Chicken was recorded with the Yamassee tribe as they "revolted" against white settlers along the coastal villages. July 1725, Col Chicken tells that "This morning came to me the head men of Elejoy who informed me that they were desirous to hear the talk in their own town and that they had no mind to go over the hills." Over the Hills refers directly to the villages along the Tenasi or Little Tennessee River. "Set away from Elejoy abt nine of the Clock this morning and abt ten of the Clock we came to little Teriquo in the Middle Settlements being about two miles from Elejoy. We passed by Conustee. About twelve at noon I took our departure from thence and came about five miles short of a place called the Beaver Dam where we lay in the woods for this night having travilled that day 25 miles. " They are traveling toward the Overhill settlements but are still on the other side of Hanging Dog Mountain between there and where Murphy, NC is today. ......Tuesday 27 July 1725...."The day proving very rainy we could not goe from hence according to the message sent yesterday to the King at Tunisee I informed the head men at Terriquo that were at home that I expected they would accompany me to Tenissee where their King lived and where I intended to give them the English Talk.".... Col. Chicken makes a few references to the 'KING' and head warriours . Alexander Cumming is first accounted for within the Cherokee settlements circa 1730. On March 29 1830 is the first reference that I have seen to the name Moytoy. Cumming was at Tamauchly , went to Tassetchess, 40 miles away, passed over the steep mtns of Joree. March 28 he went from Tassetchess and lay withing 3 miles of Beaver Dam where Ludovic Grant was with his guide William Cooper. The 29th they proceeded over the mountains, to arrive at great Telliquo in the afternoon. Here he states that 'made a friend of the great Moytoy and Jacob the Conjurer. Moytoy told Sir Alexander that it was talked among the several towns last year that they intended to make him Emperor over the whole; but now it must be whatever Sir Alexander pleased. On March 30 Ludovic Grant accompanied Cumming to great Tannassey. This town is pleasantly situated on a branch of the Mississippie and is 16 miles from great Telliquo." Here they are clearly going to Chota.

I'm at work so this will be brief. Joyce, I think some of the informaiton on the McDaniel is in the Springplace book by Clara Ward. I have more information in my notes at home and will try to get those in the next day or so, once I get past my final exam. It's too hard to keep other things in my head in the moment, LOL! Sookie is also an English nickname for Susan or Susie. I'm sure glad no one gave it to me, though! Susan

There are more for the other group or both. People on the culture list can share with you. On Dec 12, 2012 8:13 AM, "Joyce Gaston Reece" <[email protected]> wrote: > > Moytoy as Indian: > > Researchers have available the transcriptions of Hernando Desoto in the > 1540's as visiting the Cherokee on the Tenasi (now called Little Tennessee) > River. He did not use the name Moytoy. Juan Pardo came 26 years later. > He, too, visited the Indians but with much fewer records. The next > expedition was in 1670. Lederer turned back back in fear of the Spainards > before reaching the Appalachians. > > In 1673, Abraham Wood sent a letter to Mr. Richards in London. This > expedition went to a 'town of in habitance'. "They journeyed nine days > from > Occhonechee to Sitteree, west and by south, past nine rivers and creeks > which all end in this side the mountains and empty themselves into the east > sea. Sitteree being the last town of inhabitance and not any path further > until they came within two days journey of the Tomahittans. They traveled > from thence up the mountains upon the sun setting all the way and in four > days get to the top, sometimes leading their horses sometimes riding....." > Most scholars believe the Tomahittans were the earliest 'known' Cherokee. > Abraham Wood writes of Indian John/Hasecoll, James Needham, Gabriel > Arthur. > He doesn't name any other Indians. > > Charleston SC was founded in 1674 by a group with Henry Woodward. Who > began > trading with the Westoe Indians who were to become the 'middlemen' between > the Carolinians and the Cherokee. JAMES MOORE wrote..."took up seven > sorts > of ore or mineral stones, all differing either in weight, colour, smell or > some other qualities, By my friend, Col. Maurice Matthews, I had these > tried in England. He sent word two were very good and one indifferent. On > the same Journey I was informed that the Spaniards had been at work within > 20 miles of me. The natives described to me their bellows and furnaces and > said they killed the Spaniards for fear they would make slaves of them to > work in the mines as they had other Indians. The places where I took up > the > ores are much nearer Ashley River than any place now inhabited by the > Spaniards or French"..... > > By 1716 Alexander Long was known to be living among and trading with the > Cherokee. A total of 848,363 deer skins had been exported to Great Britain > alone over the previous 16 years. (1700). Long was with the Cherokee > prior > to 1710. Eleazer Wiggin is recorded as acting as interpreter in 1711. In > May of 1714 is when we get the first real taste of recorded data. Long was > accused of attempting to cut off trade between the British and the > Euchee's. > > Colonel George Chicken was recorded with the Yamassee tribe as they > "revolted" against white settlers along the coastal villages. July 1725, > Col Chicken tells that "This morning came to me the head men of Elejoy who > informed me that they were desirous to hear the talk in their own town and > that they had no mind to go over the hills." Over the Hills refers > directly > to the villages along the Tenasi or Little Tennessee River. "Set away from > Elejoy abt nine of the Clock this morning and abt ten of the Clock we came > to little Teriquo in the Middle Settlements being about two miles from > Elejoy. We passed by Conustee. About twelve at noon I took our departure > from thence and came about five miles short of a place called the Beaver > Dam > where we lay in the woods for this night having travilled that day 25 > miles. > " They are traveling toward the Overhill settlements but are still on the > other side of Hanging Dog Mountain between there and where Murphy, NC is > today. ......Tuesday 27 July 1725...."The day proving very rainy we could > not goe from hence according to the message sent yesterday to the King at > Tunisee I informed the head men at Terriquo that were at home that I > expected they would accompany me to Tenissee where their King lived and > where I intended to give them the English Talk.".... Col. Chicken makes a > few references to the 'KING' and head warriours . > > Alexander Cumming is first accounted for within the Cherokee settlements > circa 1730. On March 29 1830 is the first reference that I have seen to > the > name Moytoy. Cumming was at Tamauchly , went to Tassetchess, 40 miles > away, > passed over the steep mtns of Joree. March 28 he went from Tassetchess and > lay withing 3 miles of Beaver Dam where Ludovic Grant was with his guide > William Cooper. The 29th they proceeded over the mountains, to arrive at > great Telliquo in the afternoon. Here he states that 'made a friend of the > great Moytoy and Jacob the Conjurer. Moytoy told Sir Alexander that it was > talked among the several towns last year that they intended to make him > Emperor over the whole; but now it must be whatever Sir Alexander pleased. > On March 30 Ludovic Grant accompanied Cumming to great Tannassey. This > town > is pleasantly situated on a branch of the Mississippie and is 16 miles from > great Telliquo." Here they are clearly going to Chota. > > > > > > > > > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do > genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > please take non genealogy to [email protected] > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks for clarifying the documents you know, or do not know of. I believed the James William David McDaniel born in Scotland about 1716 that I have on my tree would indeed be known as white as many scots I think were considered to be describing race or color. The ethnicity of the children between them is what comes up in question then...If they were indeed the children of him and Sookie "Granny" Hopper. This comes from my tree, not a copy and paste of the linked one that was in previous e-mails that I sent with my questions. Register Report for James William David McDANIELGeneration 11. James William David McDANIEL-1 was born about 1716 in Scotland. He died before 1816.Sookie "Granny" HOPPER Su-Gi Schwanz of the WOLF CLAN was born in 1742 in Cherokee Nation East. She died before 1842. Notes for Sookie "Granny" HOPPER: General Notes: The Sookie is the Indian equivalent of Susy. Not sure who told me this. James William David McDANIEL and Sookie "Granny" HOPPER were married in 1762 in Tennessee, USA. They had the following children: i. ii. iii. iv. Notes for Alexander M. McDANIEL: General Notes: *Cristy, [email protected]_______ says they lived in Moundville, Mason County, West Virginia. v. vi. vii. on 28 Sep 1786 in Randolph County, North Carolina, USA. She died before 1855. Notes for Elizabeth Quatsey McDANIEL: General Notes: The e-mail from Tarrie **_______ with the information in this as to her ethnic background and who her parents were, came from her grandma that remembered being told of Sookie and does know that she was Indian. viii. ix. x. xi. xii. xiii.   As to death date, I just use my 100 yr. rule of putting a death date on tree. I am thinking they have passed on, and if they haven't well it may not make a bit of diff to them if their name and birth date is on a tree somewhere in house, or on internet. To say this info is sketchy is an understatement....and oh so not proved except the oral hand me down info of someone/s. And I understand that is not making it documented.  Page 1 Wednesday, December 12, 2012 11:25:14 A  * email addy blanked out to protect privacy**Her surname blanked to help protect her identity.daughter of Chief Old Hop/Old Hop Canagatoga Of Chote MOTOY andCatherine McDANIEL was born before 1764. She died before 1864.James McDANIEL was born in 1764. He died before 1864.William McDANIEL was born in 1766. He died before 1876.Alexander M. McDANIEL was born after 1762. He died before 1870.Lewis McDANIEL was born in 1770. He died before 1790.Lucinda McDANIEL was born in 1772. She died before 1872.Elizabeth Quatsey McDANIEL was born in 1774. She married James Thomas ESSARYNellie McDANIEL was born in 1786. She died before 1776.Ruth McDANIEL was born in 1778. She died before 1878.Sarah McDANIEL was born in 1780. She died before 1880.David McDANIEL was born about 1781. He died before 1881.Ellis McDANIEL was born about 1782. He died before 1882.Mary McDANIEL was born about 1783. She died before 1883. Judy, un beau gachis Born with a 1200 ft. question looking for a sixty in. answer. http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=gary_young http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/y/o/u/Judith-A-Young/  ________________________________ From: Joyce Gaston Reece <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, December 12, 2012 10:20:01 AM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] John McDaniel Judy I do not nor have I seen any documentation that Granny Hopper was mother to the McDaniel children.  She was, by all indications, the daughter of Old Hop but I've not seen documentation of that either.  One of the others, Susan or Kathie may have something but I don't.  Neither have I seen documents that verify or alledge to William or David McDaniel being the father of the McDaniels.  There is a William McDaniel who received a North Carolina 1817-1819 Reservation and that's all I know of him.  On the other hand I have seen testimony that the mother of Alex McDaniel was Nancy Bolin. There is a James and John McDaniel in Roane, McMinn, Meigs & Rhea Counties but I've not researched them enough to say they were of Cherokee descent. By what I have seen they appear to be mostly white. Joyce Gaston Reece =====*NOTICE THIS*===== Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). Rude people will be moderated asap! List archive http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene please take non genealogy to [email protected] Dual admin. Dan and Joyce ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

what are we looking for in this link? ----- Original Message ----- From: "BARBARA GORDON-LANTTO" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 3:20 AM Subject: [CherokeeGene] Stand Watie Soldiers, including McDaniel > http://cherokeeregistry.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=396&Itemid=594 > > BARB

I realize that you asked about John. Since we have only one well documented line of McDaniel's it only makes sense that you'd want to look for John in association with Alexander. You'll need to expand your possibilities when you strike a brick wall. Think outside the box. When I said 'sinking ship' I was not referring to the list in general but one specific thing on this list. The fact that we keep getting told things but never get offered any links or directions. So 'seriously', yes, seriously! I have nothing that documents that Granny Hopper was the mother of the McDaniels child/children. One of the other researchers may have but I have not found solid documentation. Joyce Gaston Reece

http://cherokeeregistry.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=396&Itemid=594 BARB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dj M" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 12:31 AM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] subject lines > Suggest using proper subject lines and not sending completer digests to > the > group. > Thanks. > ;)) > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do > genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > please take non genealogy to [email protected] > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Joyce - I asked of John McDaniel - not Alexander. Is he mentioned in the Dawes aps as well? I know they are supposed to be brothers and I did look up your archived post (and many more) as requested. Sinking ship - seriously? I have belonged to this group quite some time and rarely ask for help- I didnt bring up Matoys or Moytoys - just John and Mary unk McDaniel and asked for help. Judy - I cannot answer all your questions. Surely Granny Hop is still just as Cherokee as she was a few days ago. And William McDaniel is the same as well. And Moytoy is secure in his position. I believe some one else will have to jump in at this point and address Judy's other concerns. Terri On 12/11/2012 10:55 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > Today's Topics: > > 1. McDaniel (Joyce Gaston Reece) > 2. Re: John McDaniel (Dj M) > 3. Re: John McDaniel (Dj M) > 4. Re: John McDaniel (Dj M) > 5. Re: John McDaniel (Joyce Gaston Reece) > 6. Re: CHEROKEEGENE Digest, Vol 7, Issue 243 (Terri Presley) > 7. Re: John McDaniel (Alli :)) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 20:33:59 -0500 > From: "Joyce Gaston Reece" <[email protected]> > Subject: [CherokeeGene] McDaniel > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > And we are, surely, on the same sinking ship, Alli. > > As stated before. If one studies the depositions of Rebecca Ellidge in her > Dawes/Miller application then look for those of her sisters, Millie Moytoy > Duncan, Elizabeth Pitts and any others they can find you will learn that > Nancy Bowlin/Bolin was the mother of Alexander McDaniel. She was, possibly, > a black woman. you can also study the depositions of Thomas Raper and Caty > McDaniel, Jesse Raper and Mary McDaniel and James Raper with Susannah > McDaniel. He was NOT the son of Granny Hopper UNLESS her white name was > Nancy Bolin. These depositions plainly state that Alexander McDaniel was > the half brother of James Matoy > > Each and every genealogical line we have traced all trace their heritage to > the Matoys > > Joyce Gaston Reece > > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 20:45:41 -0600 > From: Terri Presley <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] CHEROKEEGENE Digest, Vol 7, Issue 243 > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Late to the party again... Thank you all! Kathie, thanks for the > insight. The land lottery did not make much sense. Alli and Robert- > thanks on the clarifications. Susan if what you have pertains to my line > - I would love it! But if not, I totally believe you on the Jamestown > birth point. Judy, I think we may be rowing boats next to each other. > > No one knows Mary unk - Johns wife? Or actual death info? > Terri > >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 17:09:46 -0800 (PST) >> From: judy young <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] John McDaniel >> To: [email protected] >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> Excuse me for butting in on a running converstaion, I just happened to have >> confused myself. I was in the midst of another research when this finally rings >> some bells,?and I have already deleted much of my e-mail...sorry...just a bit of >> the child in me listening with half an ear to what the ole folks said...and that >> said...?Are you saying Granny Hopper is not?full cherokee blood or are you >> saying her husband was not scots? Just wanted to know for sure. Or in fact are >> you referring to either ethnicity? But the all cliams of Moytoy as Indian. >> Perhaps that is what the genealogical materials here are meaning. Thanks so much >> for taking your time to straighten me out as I know many of you can. >> >> >> >> Joyce Gaston Reece >> > > > > > >

Suggest using proper subject lines and not sending completer digests to the group. Thanks. ;))

I have an offshoot of my Phariss line ( a few) back that married into the Motoy/Matoy line I'll have to look back at it, but i haven't researched that line (just kept a hold of the info. that someone else gathered = no documents to back it up yet) because its Uncle's family a few great's or so LOL Alli :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce Gaston Reece" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 6:33 PM Subject: [CherokeeGene] McDaniel > And we are, surely, on the same sinking ship, Alli. > > As stated before. If one studies the depositions of Rebecca Ellidge in > her > Dawes/Miller application then look for those of her sisters, Millie Moytoy > Duncan, Elizabeth Pitts and any others they can find you will learn that > Nancy Bowlin/Bolin was the mother of Alexander McDaniel. She was, > possibly, > a black woman. you can also study the depositions of Thomas Raper and > Caty > McDaniel, Jesse Raper and Mary McDaniel and James Raper with Susannah > McDaniel. He was NOT the son of Granny Hopper UNLESS her white name was > Nancy Bolin. These depositions plainly state that Alexander McDaniel was > the half brother of James Matoy > > Each and every genealogical line we have traced all trace their heritage > to > the Matoys > > Joyce Gaston Reece > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do > genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > please take non genealogy to [email protected] > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

We probably are :) I've seen these names many times, haven't researched them....but this is all really interesting. I may take on that researching the info. (that's already here) just out of curiousity LOL Alli ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce Gaston Reece" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 6:33 PM Subject: [CherokeeGene] McDaniel > And we are, surely, on the same sinking ship, Alli. > > As stated before. If one studies the depositions of Rebecca Ellidge in > her > Dawes/Miller application then look for those of her sisters, Millie Moytoy > Duncan, Elizabeth Pitts and any others they can find you will learn that > Nancy Bowlin/Bolin was the mother of Alexander McDaniel. She was, > possibly, > a black woman. you can also study the depositions of Thomas Raper and > Caty > McDaniel, Jesse Raper and Mary McDaniel and James Raper with Susannah > McDaniel. He was NOT the son of Granny Hopper UNLESS her white name was > Nancy Bolin. These depositions plainly state that Alexander McDaniel was > the half brother of James Matoy > > Each and every genealogical line we have traced all trace their heritage > to > the Matoys > > Joyce Gaston Reece > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do > genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > please take non genealogy to [email protected] > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Either way.......the point is ...... Where does she want to look......if she knows that they joined the early linage.....where is the link? :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce Gaston Reece" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] John McDaniel > Both ways...depends on who wrote it. I've seen it Matoy, Motoy, Moytoy, > Maytoy....etc > > > > Joyce Gaston Reece > -----Original Message----- > From: Dj M > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 9:23 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] John McDaniel > > Matoy > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alli :) > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 2:31 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] John McDaniel > > See Moytoy where? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "BARBARA GORDON-LANTTO" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 1:27 PM > Subject: Re: [CherokeeGene] John McDaniel > > >> The McDaniel's joined the early Cherokee linage. See Moytoy. >> >> BARB > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do > genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > please take non genealogy to [email protected] > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do > genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > please take non genealogy to [email protected] > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > =====*NOTICE THIS*===== > Cherokee genealogy; topic specific certain conversation is allowed to do > genealogy; and sort fact from (fiction). > > Rude people will be moderated asap! > List archive > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokeegene > please take non genealogy to [email protected] > Dual admin. > Dan and Joyce > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message