QUANNAH PARKER FAMILY- DNA Results-PARKER I have seen an inquiry lately on QUANAH PARKER. My grandmother was LAURA ALICE PARKER- 1911-1991, so I follow the PARKER lines. Following is QUANNAH PARKER FAMILY- DNA Results-. It can be found at: _http://web.utk.edu/%7Ecorn/parkerdna/park5.htm_ (http://web.utk.edu/~corn/parkerdna/park5.htm) PARKER Family Group #5 P01 and P32 match on 35 of 37 markers. The oldest ancestor of P01 is Robert PARKER, b abt 1630 in England, and emigrated to Plymouth Colony MA. Robert PARKER married first Sarah JAMES, and second, Patience COBB. The oldest ancestor of P32 is John PARKER, b 1760-70. The DNA test has made it possible for P32 to determine his relationship to the line of P01. P41 was added to this group on 25 March 2005. He matches P32 35/37, and P01 34/37. P41 is descended from Daniel PARKER, son of Elder John PARKER, who was born 1758 in Baltimore Co. Md, and died 1836 in Fort Parker, Texas. This is the line of Cynthia PARKER, mother of Quanah PARKER. This match was unexpected by both PARKER lines, and his given them new areas for research. P45 was added to this family group on 30 May 2005. We are waiting to receive his 25 marker DNA results. He is descended from Benjamin PARKER, son of Elder John PARKER. Benjamin is the brother of Daniel PARKER, ancestor of P41. With matching DNA samples from descendents of two different sons of elder John PARKER, b 1758 Baltimore, MD, we are confident that we have identified this line correctly.

It has come to my attention the some members of this list think it is all right to send rude emails to other members of the list. To my way of thinking if your reply to another poster isn't nice enough to post to the list then you better think about what you are saying before you click send. I don't know whether its the season or what but on several of the Native American lists I belong to there has been a lot of fighting, complaining, and just plain being mean to others. That is not the way this lists operates nor will it operate in that manner. I have never had to put any member on moderation on any of my lists and I have numerous lists, but one more complaint like the one I received this morning, and I won't hesitate to do so. If you disagree with someone's information, tell them that but don't be mean or rude about it. There is a lot of information others have on family lines I am working on, but when information is offered that I don't agree with, I don't say "not in these families". I tell the person I would like to know more and why they came to those conclusions. I will be leaving on vacation in the morning, but there is this nice invention called the laptop and I will have mine with me. I will be able to monitor the list while I am away. No one needs to reply to this post, you all know the rules, you just need to follow them. Judy List Mom When you have some extra time, visit my websites: Native American Genealogy - http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/ AccessGenealogy - http://www.accessgenealogy.com/ Native American Nations - http://www.nanations.com My home pages - http://www.itsjudy.com

Looking for any information on Elizabeth Gillum family. Elizabeth was 1/2 Cherokee, born in Arkansas circa 1860, and married James Samuel Knowles, April 1875 in Galesburg, Jasper County, Missouri. They lived in Indian Territory Oklahoma from 1877 to 1882, and then moved to Bates County Missouri. Elizabeth died there about 1892.

OK- there was only one TART/TARTT in the American Revolution. It appears The Pension papers are 12 pages long and he was listed as a "Privateer" in the American Revolutionary They captured an English supply ship. Anyone know anything more on him? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ABSTRACTS by Nancy J. Capps June 09, 2005 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ THE ONLY SOLDIER SURNAMED TART or TARTT that is found in the records of the Revolutionary war. Listed in his service acct ; (Court statement dated August 1833) "to prevent the British ships from entering the river." "He volunteered" Father lived in Bertie County, NC Born Nansemond County, VA, 7 Feb 1761 Called to service in Berties County- at fathers house- but he was absent from land by sea. One year later after his return, he married and moved back to VA) Another year later he moved back to Bertoe County. "Thirty three years ago I moved to where I now live on the north side of Kill peacock (?) Swamp and east side of great Coharie river. Honorable discharge from the army... Names of persons known in your neighborhood... Character for Veracirty are "THOMAS THORNTON Sr., and WESTBROOK LEE whom I have known for about thirty three years, Farmers residing in Sampson County THOMAS TART who has subscribed to the above declaration that we belive him to be seventy two years of age , that he is belived and reputed in the neighborhood, to have been a soldier of the revolution, and that we concur in tht opinion & that wwe believe him to be a man of veracity. Sworn and subscribed the year and the day foresaid" THOMAS THORNTON (his mark) WESTBROOK LEE JNO. KING JOS. BENNETT Letter from Washington DC to HENRY L. MALLEN of Livingston ALA dated Oct. 14, 1931 ststes he is THE ONLY SOLDIER SURNAMED TART or TARTT that is found in the records of the Revolutionary war. Enlisted July 20, 1778 "Captured an English brig laden with supplies for the english army at Halifax, Nova Scotia." ~~~ Nancy

Greetings, I am looking for information on the Reed family that came from PA, to Tenn, then to Illinois (Saline County), the Missouri (Shannon County). Here are some of the names: Johnson's Father ? born in PA. Johnson Reed m. Elizabeth Randolph, he was born in Tenn. Henry Johnson Reed m Marianne Jackson, he was born in Illinois Love Wilford Reed m Doni Haynes (Dona), he was born in Missouri Thank you in advance for your response! P. H. CHEROKEE-SURNAMES-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: CHEROKEE-SURNAMES-D Digest Volume 05 : Issue 39 Today's Topics: #1 Re: [CHEROKEE-SURNAMES] Johnston C [Serenity4us2@aol.com] #2 Re: [CHEROKEE-SURNAMES] Johnston C [Serenity4us2@aol.com] Administrivia: To unsubscribe from CHEROKEE-SURNAMES-D, send a message to CHEROKEE-SURNAMES-D-request@rootsweb.com that contains in the body of the message the command unsubscribe and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. To contact the CHEROKEE-SURNAMES-D list administrator, send mail to CHEROKEE-SURNAMES-admin@rootsweb.com. ______________________________Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 11:51:26 EDT From: Serenity4us2@aol.com To: CHEROKEE-SURNAMES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CHEROKEE-SURNAMES] Johnston County In a message dated 6/8/2005 7:24:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, skydancer_@bellsouth.net writes: This marriage was done in Johnston Cty.. Do you know if there is birth records that I could find and maybe go further back? Skydancer Yes there are some for later years. I dont think so for the earlier years, but best to check it out. I plan to go check it out this summer for my Ggrandmother MAMMIE LEE, now that I know who her parents were. Sampson County records burned (I believe in the civil war, but Johnston County has a good supply. The Johnston County Heritage Center site has search capabilities for Marriage bonds, Census, News, 1902 voter records, obits & more. on it. http://www.johnstonnc.com/mainpage.cfm?category_level_id=727 Here is what came up on the Marriage Bond search: ID: 1900 Groom: Collins, Zachariah Bride: Beaman, Welthy Date of Marriage Bond: October 08, 1802 Bondsmen and Officials: Zachariah x Collins Isaac x Beaman R. Sanders (W) There are a couple of BEAMANs that married into our STRICKLAND line of Johnston & Sampson Counties. Good Luck- Nancy ______________________________Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 12:12:12 EDT From: Serenity4us2@aol.com To: CHEROKEE-SURNAMES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CHEROKEE-SURNAMES] Johnston County In a message dated 6/8/2005 11:57:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, skydancer1st@netzero.net writes: ..I also have Lees in my families. Let me dig out what I have. Sky Sky, It wouldn't surprise me if they were related. Ours were peculiar (in relation to the Anglo settlers in the fact they repeatedly married into the same families)- ie: in my lines / branches: STRICKLAND + LEE; STRICKLAND + STRICKLAND; LEE + LEE; WESTBROOK + WESTBROOK; WESTBROOK +LEE; WESTBROOK + TART; TART + LEE etc... AND it seems that the next gen married their cousins and so forth. I have been told they did not trust "outsiders". My theory is it was due to the Native Am-Cherokee lineage, keeping it going. Nancy

In a message dated 6/8/2005 11:57:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, skydancer1st@netzero.net writes: ..I also have Lees in my families. Let me dig out what I have. Sky Sky, It wouldn't surprise me if they were related. Ours were peculiar (in relation to the Anglo settlers in the fact they repeatedly married into the same families)- ie: in my lines / branches: STRICKLAND + LEE; STRICKLAND + STRICKLAND; LEE + LEE; WESTBROOK + WESTBROOK; WESTBROOK +LEE; WESTBROOK + TART; TART + LEE etc... AND it seems that the next gen married their cousins and so forth. I have been told they did not trust "outsiders". My theory is it was due to the Native Am-Cherokee lineage, keeping it going. Nancy

In a message dated 6/8/2005 7:24:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, skydancer_@bellsouth.net writes: This marriage was done in Johnston Cty.. Do you know if there is birth records that I could find and maybe go further back? Skydancer Yes there are some for later years. I dont think so for the earlier years, but best to check it out. I plan to go check it out this summer for my Ggrandmother MAMMIE LEE, now that I know who her parents were. Sampson County records burned (I believe in the civil war, but Johnston County has a good supply. The Johnston County Heritage Center site has search capabilities for Marriage bonds, Census, News, 1902 voter records, obits & more. on it. http://www.johnstonnc.com/mainpage.cfm?category_level_id=727 Here is what came up on the Marriage Bond search: ID: 1900 Groom: Collins, Zachariah Bride: Beaman, Welthy Date of Marriage Bond: October 08, 1802 Bondsmen and Officials: Zachariah x Collins Isaac x Beaman R. Sanders (W) There are a couple of BEAMANs that married into our STRICKLAND line of Johnston & Sampson Counties. Good Luck- Nancy

The Brocks that I showed a genetic match to are from Bradley Co, TN moved to Florida. Sincerely, Sherry R. Huff PO Box 98 Bronston, KY 42518 606.561.7017

Nancy, Here is what I have on my BULL line. I received the file you sent just fine. Thank you. Cumile Bull (family insists that this is pronounced Q-mile) who knows where the pronunciation of that name came from. It is KY (no offense to any of my KY neighbors out there) but nevertheless I have to remember the story. Camille, as I think her name was, was supposedly part Indian. Sioux to be exact. William Bull was supposedly a scout for the Army. I have found no proof of that. In fact, on his death certificate that is witnessed by Lucinda Buell/Bull (aka Lucinda Wilson and Lucinda Bodell) he is listed as white and his occupation is Mail Carrier. Now, a fellow going by the name of Two Waters supposedly went to the National Archives and told me that it seemed that Camille Bull was Indian but not Cherokee. Who knows? Last I remember is that Two Waters moved to VA. Descendants of Jesse Bull/Buell Generation No. 1 1. JESSE2 BULL/BUELL (JESSE1) He married MARGARET PITTMAN, daughter of JOSEPH PITTMAN and CYNTHIA WILSON. Child of JESSE BULL/BUELL and MARGARET PITTMAN is: 2. i. WILLIAM3 BULL/BUELL, b. 05 Feb 1861, Bell County KY; d. 27 Oct 1919, Harlan County, KY. Generation No. 2 2. WILLIAM3 BULL/BUELL (JESSE2, JESSE1)1 was born 05 Feb 1861 in Bell County KY, and died 27 Oct 1919 in Harlan County, KY. He married LUCINDA WILSON2, daughter of ZACHARIAH WILSON and RACHEL COLDIRON. She was born May 1865 in KY, and died 16 Mar 1927 in Harlan County, KY3. Children of WILLIAM BULL/BUELL and LUCINDA WILSON are: 3. i. CUMILE4 BULL/BUELL. ii. RUFUS BULL/BUELL, b. 16 Aug 1903, Harlan County, KY; d. 03 Dec 1973, Harlan County, KY. iii. LIZZIE BULL/BUELL, b. Abt. 1895, Ky. iv. JOHN BULL/BUELL, b. 12 Jun 1895, Ky. v. AMERICA BULL/BUELL, b. Abt. 1900, Ky. Generation No. 3 3. CUMILE4 BULL/BUELL (WILLIAM3, JESSE2, JESSE1) She married JARVIS J. NOE 1906 in Harlan County, KY4, son of ANDERSON NOE and LUCY OSBORNE. He was born Jan 1884 in KY. More About JARVIS NOE and CUMILE BULL/BUELL: Marriage: 1906, Harlan County, KY4 Children of CUMILE BULL/BUELL and JARVIS NOE are: 4. i. ELLEN CUMILE5 NOE. ii. JOHN L. NOE. Generation No. 4 4. ELLEN CUMILE5 NOE (CUMILE4 BULL/BUELL, WILLIAM3, JESSE2, JESSE1) She married SAMUEL ARTHUR WILLIAMS, son of CAM WILLIAMS and MARTHA SHELTON. He was born 09 Oct 1903, and died 14 Jan 1977. Children of ELLEN NOE and SAMUEL WILLIAMS are: i. WILLIE GENE6 WILLIAMS, m. BRENDA DAY. ii. DAVID WAYNE WILLIAMS. iii. MARY ELLEN WILLIAMS, d. Covington, KY. iv. VIRGINIA LUCILLE WILLIAMS. v. CARL RAY WILLIAMS, b. 01 Aug 1949; d. 26 Dec 1995, Gordon County, GA. Endnotes 1. 1880Harlan Co., Ky CensusDist 8; Tom's Creek; 1 June; p.2B, visit 11:PITMAN, Joseph; W, m, 74, farmer; NC, SC, SC................, Syntha; W, f, 72, wife, Ky, SC, Ky................, Rosa; W, f, 30, dau, Ky, NC, Ky.BULL, William; W, m, 18, Servant, Ky, Ky, Ky..........., John C.; W, m, 17, Servant, Ky, Ky, Ky.1870Josh Bell Co., Ky Census (later same as Bell Co.)Dist 1 - P.O. Pineville, Ky; 29 July; p.12, visit 77:PITTMAN, Joseph; 62, m, W, farmer, $150, $500, NC.................., Cyntha; 62, w, W, Ky.................., Ruth, 27, f, Ky.................., Rosalene, 22, f, Ky.................., Debrah Bithena; 19, f, Ky.BULL, William W.; 9, m, Ky ( middle initial "C" crossed out and "W" written in).........., John C.; 7, m, Ky. Same census, Dist. 4, P.O. Calloway, Ky; 14 Sept, p.241A, visit 39:BULL, Brittain; 32, m, W, farmer, $250, $0, Ky. (Jesse Brittain Bull Jr).........., Elizabeth S.; 35, f, W, NC. (his 2nd wife, m'd abt. 1867 ?).........., Andrew J.; 11, m, Va..........., William C.; 6, m, Tenn..........., Martha; 2, f, Ky.(Andrew and William are probably children from Elizabeth's prev marriage but her 1st husband may have been a BULL, also.) next door, visit 40:BULL, Jesse; 76, m, W, Gunsmith, $0, $0, Tenn..........., Jane; 72, f, W, Tenn. (prob. Va.) . 2. 1920 Harlan Co., Ky CensusDist. 104 Wilhoit Pct (Ennumerator was a Carter Howard), sheet 2A, 6 January, visit 23:BUEL, Lucinda; Head; f, W, 52, W'd; Ky, Ky, Ky. Keeper-boarding house........, Cumile; dau; f, W, 24, D'd; Ky, Ky, Ky........, Rufus; son, m, W, 18, sgl, Ky, Ky, Ky. Coal Miner.NOE, John C.; grandson; m, W, 9; Ky, Ky, Ky.CECIL, Bascon; boarder; m, W, 15; Tenn, Tenn, Tenn; Coal Miner. Rufus Buell/Bull; b. 16 Aug 1903; d. 3 Dec 1973.m'd Bertha SCOTT; b. 10 Feb 1916; d. Dec 1982;(dau of William Scott and Alice NOE.) Rufus's brother:John Bull; b. 12 Jun 1895m'd 1920, Susie SAYLOR,(dau of Esau Saylor and Verilla HOWARD.) 1910Harlan Co., Ky Census - Dist 88 Wallins Creek; 7 th Mag. Dist; 16 April; p.1B; visit 10:BUELL, William; farmer, m, W, 50, m'd 1x, 28 yrs, Ky, Ky, Ky............., Lucinda; wife; f, W, 44, m'd 1x, 28 yrs, 11 kids/6 living; Ky, Ky, Ky............., Lizzie; dau; 15; Ky............., John; son, 14; Ky............., America; dau, 10; Ky............., Rufus; son, 6, Ky. 1900Harlan Co., Ky CensusDist 54 Wallins Creek, Mag Dist 7 (?); 7 June; sheet 1A & B; visit 8:BULL, William; farmer, W, m, Feb. 1860; 40, m17 yrs; Ky, Ky, Ky..........., Lusindia; wife, W, f, May 1865; 35, m17 yrs; Ky, Ky, Ky..........., Margaret; dau; May 1886, 15, Ky..........., Camile; dau, July 1889, 10, Ky..........., Lizzie; dau; Sept 1894, 5, Ky..........., John; son, June 1896, 3, Ky..........., America; dau, Mar 1899, 1, Ky.. 3. Vital Statistics, Lucinda Wilson Bull/Buell is listed as Lucinda Bodell on her death certificate. 4. book 18 p. 58. Sincerely, Sherry R. Huff PO Box 98 Bronston, KY 42518 606.561.7017

Nancy I would like to ask a question. I have just found out that the family stories of my Collinsworth family changing the name from Collins. I found Zachariah Collins and Welthy Beaman's marriage record and it was using the Collins name not Collinsworth..in almost all other records census ect.. they are listed as Collinsworth. This marriage was done in Johnston Cty.. Do you know if there is birth records that I could find and maybe go further back? Skydancer ----- Original Message ----- From: Serenity4us2@aol.com To: Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [CHEROKEE-SURNAMES] BULL Census info (help with interpreting?) Your point on the Census enumerator is well understood! I have heard that many hid out and the neighbors answered the Census taker. I have also heard that if they had a white or white "appearing" family member, that is who would answer. So, who knows? I can tell you that Johnston County (where they settled) is full of dark "whites" of Native heritage. Some of my own family included! I can send the Ebks to you after our storm subsides - to your personal EMail if it is alright. (I have been thrown offline every few minutes due to a severe thunderstorn here in Cumberland County NC). Also I will check my files and go over the Desc. listed in Henry Bulls Will, and pull a few other Bulls I have. I do have a document on one set of BULLs who changed their name and moved to (I think-off the top of my head) Tennessee. I do know the new surname began with a T, but Turnbull doesn't sound like it- as far as I can remember, I don't think it had the BULL in it at all. I will try to locate it. I believe it was the court petition for the name change. Nancy In a message dated 6/7/2005 9:21:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, sheree606@alltel.net writes: Could be the same family. I also think that Race was a matter of who the census taker was and if he knew or was related to the family. Race was/is not as cut and dry as it would seem. You also have to take into account that at a certain point in history America became a white vs. black society. I have heard from several individuals that my Bulls carried the middle initial T in their names and they changed their names to Turnbull. I do not know this myself. I have just begun researching this line. I think that some think that my Bulls came from the same line as another Bull line in PA but it is argued about a lot. I guess what I mean is that just because you have a sCould be the same family. I also think that Race was a matter of who the census taker was and if he knew or was related to the family. Race was/is not as cut and dry as it would seem. You also have to take into account that at a certain point in history America became a white vs. black society. I have heard from several individuals that my Bulls carried the middle initial T in their names and they changed their names to Turnbull. I do not know this myself. I have just begun researching this line. I think that some think that my Bulls came from the same line as another Bull line in PA but it is argued about a lot. I guess what I mean is that just because you have a surname such as Williams does not necessarily mean you are Welch and a surname such as Bull does not necessarily mean you are Indian. Sherry -----Original Message----- From: Serenity4us2@aol.com [mailto:Serenity4us2@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:32 PM To: CHEROKEE-SURNAMES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CHEROKEE-SURNAMES] BULL Census info (help with interpreting?) I have a HENRY BULL and his family on file. Also JETHRO and some Ebks on the BULLs from PA. I have them as white- but who knows? ZILPHA BULL married WILLIAM HENRY CAPPS and settled in JOHNSTON County, NC.in the late 1700's. Don't know if it is the same faamily- or just surname! Nancy ==== CHEROKEE-SURNAMES Mailing List ==== Please visit: Cherokee-Surnames Home page http://www.accessgenealogy\native\mail\cherokee.htm ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx urname such as Williams does not necessarily mean you are Welch and a surname such as Bull does not necessarily mean you are Indian. ==== CHEROKEE-SURNAMES Mailing List ==== For Cherokee Rolls, Census and more http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/ ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx

I just opened 1 of the BULL Ebks- the AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF SIDNEY BULL; and on page 32 is the picture of a TRUMBULL BULL. This book is not so much about Genealogy as it is an autobiography. I will send the excerpted chapter on it. I see the pic but don't see anything written there about him, but this should give you a lead on were the "TURNBULL" may have came from... The 2cd book is THE DESCENDANTS OF JOHN & ELIZABETH BULL OF PA. It is about 28MB so it will take awhile to send since I no longer have DSL. I will start sending tonight. Ill try to get to the wills of our NC Bulls and look for the wills of HENRY, WILLIAM, BARNABUS & JETHRO BULLS. Nancy

Nancy that would be wonderful. I will talk to the fellow that I seem to be related to in some way shape form or fashion and get the info on the BULLs that he has his theories about. This should be interesting. One set of Bulls settled Bell County KY and are English. They changed their names from Bull to Buell and later so did my Bulls. However, my Bulls on later census records are listed as Bull and not Buell. Someone made sure they were distinguished from the Buells that settled Bell County. Sherry -----Original Message----- From: Serenity4us2@aol.com [mailto:Serenity4us2@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 9:42 PM To: sheree606@alltel.net; CHEROKEE-SURNAMES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CHEROKEE-SURNAMES] BULL Census info (help with interpreting?) Your point on the Census enumerator is well understood! I have heard that many hid out and the neighbors answered the Census taker. I have also heard that if they had a white or white "appearing" family member, that is who would answer. So, who knows? I can tell you that Johnston County (where they settled) is full of dark "whites" of Native heritage. Some of my own family included! I can send the Ebks to you after our storm subsides - to your personal EMail if it is alright. (I have been thrown offline every few minutes due to a severe thunderstorn here in Cumberland County NC). Also I will check my files and go over the Desc. listed in Henry Bulls Will, and pull a few other Bulls I have. I do have a document on one set of BULLs who changed their name and moved to (I think-off the top of my head) Tennessee. I do know the new surname began with a T, but Turnbull doesn't sound like it- as far as I can remember, I don't think it had the BULL in it at all. I will try to locate it. I believe it was the court petition for the name change. Nancy In a message dated 6/7/2005 9:21:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, sheree606@alltel.net writes: Could be the same family. I also think that Race was a matter of who the census taker was and if he knew or was related to the family. Race was/is not as cut and dry as it would seem. You also have to take into account that at a certain point in history America became a white vs. black society. I have heard from several individuals that my Bulls carried the middle initial T in their names and they changed their names to Turnbull. I do not know this myself. I have just begun researching this line. I think that some think that my Bulls came from the same line as another Bull line in PA but it is argued about a lot. I guess what I mean is that just because you have a sCould be the same family. I also think that Race was a matter of who the census taker was and if he knew or was related to the family. Race was/is not as cut and dry as it would seem. You also have to take into account that at a certain point in history America became a white vs. black society. I have heard from several individuals that my Bulls carried the middle initial T in their names and they changed their names to Turnbull. I do not know this myself. I have just begun researching this line. I think that some think that my Bulls came from the same line as another Bull line in PA but it is argued about a lot. I guess what I mean is that just because you have a surname such as Williams does not necessarily mean you are Welch and a surname such as Bull does not necessarily mean you are Indian. Sherry -----Original Message----- From: Serenity4us2@aol.com [mailto:Serenity4us2@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:32 PM To: CHEROKEE-SURNAMES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CHEROKEE-SURNAMES] BULL Census info (help with interpreting?) I have a HENRY BULL and his family on file. Also JETHRO and some Ebks on the BULLs from PA. I have them as white- but who knows? ZILPHA BULL married WILLIAM HENRY CAPPS and settled in JOHNSTON County, NC.in the late 1700's. Don't know if it is the same faamily- or just surname! Nancy ==== CHEROKEE-SURNAMES Mailing List ==== Please visit: Cherokee-Surnames Home page http://www.accessgenealogy\native\mail\cherokee.htm ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx urname such as Williams does not necessarily mean you are Welch and a surname such as Bull does not necessarily mean you are Indian.

hrh2cool@aol.com

Your point on the Census enumerator is well understood! I have heard that many hid out and the neighbors answered the Census taker. I have also heard that if they had a white or white "appearing" family member, that is who would answer. So, who knows? I can tell you that Johnston County (where they settled) is full of dark "whites" of Native heritage. Some of my own family included! I can send the Ebks to you after our storm subsides - to your personal EMail if it is alright. (I have been thrown offline every few minutes due to a severe thunderstorn here in Cumberland County NC). Also I will check my files and go over the Desc. listed in Henry Bulls Will, and pull a few other Bulls I have. I do have a document on one set of BULLs who changed their name and moved to (I think-off the top of my head) Tennessee. I do know the new surname began with a T, but Turnbull doesn't sound like it- as far as I can remember, I don't think it had the BULL in it at all. I will try to locate it. I believe it was the court petition for the name change. Nancy In a message dated 6/7/2005 9:21:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, sheree606@alltel.net writes: Could be the same family. I also think that Race was a matter of who the census taker was and if he knew or was related to the family. Race was/is not as cut and dry as it would seem. You also have to take into account that at a certain point in history America became a white vs. black society. I have heard from several individuals that my Bulls carried the middle initial T in their names and they changed their names to Turnbull. I do not know this myself. I have just begun researching this line. I think that some think that my Bulls came from the same line as another Bull line in PA but it is argued about a lot. I guess what I mean is that just because you have a sCould be the same family. I also think that Race was a matter of who the census taker was and if he knew or was related to the family. Race was/is not as cut and dry as it would seem. You also have to take into account that at a certain point in history America became a white vs. black society. I have heard from several individuals that my Bulls carried the middle initial T in their names and they changed their names to Turnbull. I do not know this myself. I have just begun researching this line. I think that some think that my Bulls came from the same line as another Bull line in PA but it is argued about a lot. I guess what I mean is that just because you have a surname such as Williams does not necessarily mean you are Welch and a surname such as Bull does not necessarily mean you are Indian. Sherry -----Original Message----- From: Serenity4us2@aol.com [mailto:Serenity4us2@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:32 PM To: CHEROKEE-SURNAMES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CHEROKEE-SURNAMES] BULL Census info (help with interpreting?) I have a HENRY BULL and his family on file. Also JETHRO and some Ebks on the BULLs from PA. I have them as white- but who knows? ZILPHA BULL married WILLIAM HENRY CAPPS and settled in JOHNSTON County, NC.in the late 1700's. Don't know if it is the same faamily- or just surname! Nancy ==== CHEROKEE-SURNAMES Mailing List ==== Please visit: Cherokee-Surnames Home page http://www.accessgenealogy\native\mail\cherokee.htm ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx urname such as Williams does not necessarily mean you are Welch and a surname such as Bull does not necessarily mean you are Indian.

hrh2coll@aol.com If you don't want to receive any more mail from the list you must unsubscribe. Judy ----- Original Message ----- From: <Hrh2cool@aol.com> To: <CHEROKEE-SURNAMES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:44 PM Subject: [CHEROKEE-SURNAMES] dont send any more mail > hrh2cool@aol.com > > > ==== CHEROKEE-SURNAMES Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe, CHEROKEE-SURNAMES-L-request@rootsweb.com, To post to the > list CHEROKEE-SURNAMES-L@rootsweb.com > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > >

Could be the same family. I also think that Race was a matter of who the census taker was and if he knew or was related to the family. Race was/is not as cut and dry as it would seem. You also have to take into account that at a certain point in history America became a white vs. black society. I have heard from several individuals that my Bulls carried the middle initial T in their names and they changed their names to Turnbull. I do not know this myself. I have just begun researching this line. I think that some think that my Bulls came from the same line as another Bull line in PA but it is argued about a lot. I guess what I mean is that just because you have a surname such as Williams does not necessarily mean you are Welch and a surname such as Bull does not necessarily mean you are Indian. Sherry -----Original Message----- From: Serenity4us2@aol.com [mailto:Serenity4us2@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:32 PM To: CHEROKEE-SURNAMES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CHEROKEE-SURNAMES] BULL Census info (help with interpreting?) I have a HENRY BULL and his family on file. Also JETHRO and some Ebks on the BULLs from PA. I have them as white- but who knows? ZILPHA BULL married WILLIAM HENRY CAPPS and settled in JOHNSTON County, NC.in the late 1700's. Don't know if it is the same faamily- or just surname! Nancy ==== CHEROKEE-SURNAMES Mailing List ==== Please visit: Cherokee-Surnames Home page http://www.accessgenealogy\native\mail\cherokee.htm ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx

I have a HENRY BULL and his family on file. Also JETHRO and some Ebks on the BULLs from PA. I have them as white- but who knows? ZILPHA BULL married WILLIAM HENRY CAPPS and settled in JOHNSTON County, NC.in the late 1700's. Don't know if it is the same faamily- or just surname! Nancy

Hey guys, Thank everyone for their take on the census information but I have came to the conclusion that I am brain dead and totally saw that information in a wrong light. I am assuming that they were servants as their occupation. I do not know what made me think that they were servants for the Pitman's. Sincerely, Sherry R. Huff PO Box 98 Bronston, KY 42518 606.561.7017

The death certificate I have for William Buell/Bull says he is the son of Jesse Bull and Margaret Pitman. I was assuming that the Joseph Pitman below was the grandfather of William Bull and John C. Bull. Refresh my memory please. NC means that Joseph was born in North Carolina correct? And SC means that his parents were born in South Carolina Correct? And the third would mean what? Can anyone help me put this census info into perspective? Sherry 1880 Harlan Co., Ky Census Dist 8; Tom's Creek; 1 June; p.2B, visit 11: PITMAN, Joseph; W, m, 74, farmer; NC, SC, SC. ..............., Syntha; W, f, 72, wife, Ky, SC, Ky. ..............., Rosa; W, f, 30, dau, Ky, NC, Ky. BULL, William; W, m, 18, Servant, Ky, Ky, Ky. .........., John C.; W, m, 17, Servant, Ky, Ky, Ky. 1870 Josh Bell Co., Ky Census (later same as Bell Co.) Dist 1 - P.O. Pineville, Ky; 29 July; p.12, visit 77: PITTMAN, Joseph; 62, m, W, farmer, $150, $500, NC. ................., Cyntha; 62, w, W, Ky. ................., Ruth, 27, f, Ky. ................., Rosalene, 22, f, Ky. ................., Debrah Bithena; 19, f, Ky. BULL, William W.; 9, m, Ky ( middle initial "C" crossed out and "W" written in) .........., John C.; 7, m, Ky. Same census, Dist. 4, P.O. Calloway, Ky; 14 Sept, p.241A, visit 39: BULL, Brittain; 32, m, W, farmer, $250, $0, Ky. (Jesse Brittain Bull Jr) .........., Elizabeth S.; 35, f, W, NC. (his 2nd wife, m'd abt. 1867 ?) .........., Andrew J.; 11, m, Va. .........., William C.; 6, m, Tenn. .........., Martha; 2, f, Ky. (Andrew and William are probably children from Elizabeth's prev marriage but her 1st husband may have been a BULL, also.) next door, visit 40: BULL, Jesse; 76, m, W, Gunsmith, $0, $0, Tenn. .........., Jane; 72, f, W, Tenn. (prob. Va.) Sincerely, Sherry R. Huff PO Box 98 Bronston, KY 42518 606.561.7017

Does anyone know what the mentality of a family would have been when giving names of their children or grandchildren and listing them as servants on census records? Sherry