'Siyo Lindsey. Thanks. Earlier I said that Dragging Canoe shared that they could have it this land but that it was a"dark and bloody land" and that "it had a dark cloud over it". In my research and listening to some of the old ones that I learned that the curse came from the original peoples in that land that were merciless and bloody killers who were also cannibalistic in nature and much blood was shed on this land. I have heard a few stories... one even said that these ancient people that were in Kentucky way back in the beginning were some of the ancient Buzzard Cult. The Buzzard Cult had mounds and villages throughout America, Mexico, and South America. It wasn't that the Buzzard Cult or whoever put curses on the land, but that the Blood of the land cried out for judgment and that their evil and monstrous deeds that brought the evil to the land... thus the "dark cloud over the land" and the "dark and bloody land" from all of the innocent blood that was shed from th! eir victims. Some of the Old Ones tell of the dark spirits that ride the storms. Most Indians and I am including us mixedbloods can sense when something is not right when we go places. Our 'red flag' goes up. Our spirit is telling us to be on guard for something. Why do you thing that we smudged, smoked tobacco prayerfully, and wore medicine bags... for protection and/or getting rid/shaking loose that which may have been picked up. We need to take heed to our inner feelings and follow through with what we know. Otherwise... we can pick up a mess and bring it home with us. This was the way it was back then and why things are the way they are now for some. Ever feel icky after being in a hospital, nursing home, or cemetery? Think about that now. The old Cherokees did not mix medicines... ours worked just fine. Cherokees used Pine and Cedar. Up North had their own version of a Sweet Grass... we down here in the South did not. Lenapes and Miquons used Common Flat Cedar and some of the Haudensaunee and Algonquins used Common Flat Cedar and Pine. As I am writing this and coughing my head off... I just remembered that I had been given Pine Needle Tea with Honey when I was sick. Good thing that I have some Pine Trees outside and just saw some Honey earlier. I am in dire need for a good ole fashion Springtime Tonic made the old way... not from the bottle. And I don't mean anything else but a bottle of Pappy's Sassafras Tea. I grew up on that stuff. Dad took it up until he died. Oh well, gotta run and make me some tea and get back to the laundry. Later. Hope it helps. Dolores 'TwoWolvesDancing' (Cobb) Phifer aka Sparkle "Those who do not look upon themselves as a link connecting the past with the future do not perform their duty to the world" Daniel Webster ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lindsey Avery" <anathema_studio@hotmail.com> To: <CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 3:27 PM Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] No Indians in KY / Shawnees, Miquons, Susquehannas, Susquehannocks > thanks for the info two wolves dancing, that was really interesting. Any > idea who the original people who cursed KY were? Do you think perhaps they > may have moved on to South America, such as the Mexica (Aztecs)? > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "TwoWolvesDancing" <twowolvesdancing@comcast.net> > Reply-To: CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com > To: CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] No Indians in KY / Shawnees, Miquons, > Susquehannas, Susquehannocks > Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:49:51 -0500 > > 'Siyo. I haven't posted much lately, but felt to here... > Cherokees in the very early days used KY as only for Hunting Grounds. They > knew that KY was cursed. That is why Dragging Canoe had no problem giving > KY to Daniel Boone and company... but told them that they could have it. > And, that this land was a"dark and bloody land" and that "it had a dark > cloud over it". In my research and listening to some of the old ones that I > learned that the curse came from the original peoples in that land that were > merciless and bloody killers who were also cannibalistic in nature and much > blood was shed on this land. That's why the Cherokees did not live there for > too long of a period, but only used it for hunting. The Shawnees and > Miquon/Minqua (the English called them Susquehanna because they lived along > the Susquehanna River in PA, MD, and VA) The Shawnees and Miquons were > their protectors. You will often find the Shawnees protecting their > Cherokees) borders in exchange for protection. The Miquons protected any > where... not just the border. Miquons were very tall (giants) warriors who > came to fight, prepared to die. Miquon and Minqua and other variations of > it's spelling along with Susquehanna and Susquehannacks and it's other > variations of spelling, including Sasquahanna). Some called them Sasquatch > because of this spelling. Some of my mom's side Cherokees came out of the > north hills of NC and Wolf Town NC they moved into the lower part of KY. > They only stayed a few generations before moving more north into MD. > > So, there were plenty of Indians in KY back in the early days. To set the > record straight... Dragging Canoe did not curse KY before giving it to the > whites... he was probably laughing to himself saying something like "if > those stupid people want KY they can have it... we surely don't want it > knowing what we have known for many, many generations." Cherokees did not > curse for they knew the way/tradition that what goes around comes around... > now cursing could come from individuals, but not in general. > > TN has been going out of their way to destroy any remains of the old Indian > places and artifacts. They have destroyed mounds and old villages, covered > up these places and old burial grounds with housing developments and > business. Sitigo/Citigo/Settico is a prime example. One business man just covered > the burial place with gravel just in case someone wants to gather the bones > there on his place. One of the builders leveled an entire mound over night > so that no one had time to get an injunction to stop him. Now that greed > with one day come up and bite him in the you-know-what... if it hadn't > already. > > Just some things that I have learned from Cherokee elders and historians as > well as some Miquons. > > Hope this helps. > > Dolores 'TwoWolvesDancing' Phifer > aka Sparkle > > "Those who do not look upon themselves as a link > connecting the past with the future do not perform > their duty to the world" Daniel Webster

hehehe actually I know exactly what you're talking about, Sparkle. I use my "feelings" most of the time to guide my decisions. They've kept me out of a lot of trouble, and I usually get good warnings about things to come in dreams or just feeling what I call "presense" that give me a "heads up" about what's coming. I've even had some all out visions. My friends say I have a "satellite dish". ;) I don't know much about the old ways unfortunately. But I've got my own ways that seem to have come from somewhere unknown, because no one else taught me anything. Course I've been searching for the source of these experiences for years, never quite found it. I've studied the Qabbalah, multiple pagan beliefs, Buddhism, Taoism, ancient Sumerian and Japanese beliefs, and, though I've found similarities, I still haven't quite found exactly the same thing as with me. On the same note, since no one around me really believes in these things, its hard when I get warnings about my friends or family and can't help them because they won't listen. Like my fiance, he had a head on car accident yesterday. I'd had a dream about it, and had been telling him something was wrong with the way the car "felt" for days now. But people around me tend to treat dreams, and premonitions about things like they aren't real. So usually all I can do is watch the bad things happen. ----Original Message Follows---- From: "TwoWolvesDancing" <twowolvesdancing@comcast.net> Reply-To: CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com To: CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] No Indians in KY / Shawnees, Miquons, Susquehannas, Susquehannocks / KY, old time ways Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:43:06 -0500 'Siyo Lindsey. Thanks. Earlier I said that Dragging Canoe shared that they could have it this land but that it was a"dark and bloody land" and that "it had a dark cloud over it". In my research and listening to some of the old ones that I learned that the curse came from the original peoples in that land that were merciless and bloody killers who were also cannibalistic in nature and much blood was shed on this land. I have heard a few stories... one even said that these ancient people that were in Kentucky way back in the beginning were some of the ancient Buzzard Cult. The Buzzard Cult had mounds and villages throughout America, Mexico, and South America. It wasn't that the Buzzard Cult or whoever put curses on the land, but that the Blood of the land cried out for judgment and that their evil and monstrous deeds that brought the evil to the land... thus the "dark cloud over the land" and the "dark and bloody land" from all of the innocent blood that was shed from th! eir victims. Some of the Old Ones tell of the dark spirits that ride the storms. Most Indians and I am including us mixedbloods can sense when something is not right when we go places. Our 'red flag' goes up. Our spirit is telling us to be on guard for something. Why do you thing that we smudged, smoked tobacco prayerfully, and wore medicine bags... for protection and/or getting rid/shaking loose that which may have been picked up. We need to take heed to our inner feelings and follow through with what we know. Otherwise... we can pick up a mess and bring it home with us. This was the way it was back then and why things are the way they are now for some. Ever feel icky after being in a hospital, nursing home, or cemetery? Think about that now. The old Cherokees did not mix medicines... ours worked just fine. Cherokees used Pine and Cedar. Up North had their own version of a Sweet Grass... we down here in the South did not. Lenapes and Miquons used Common Flat Cedar and some of the Haudensaunee and Algonquins used Common Flat Cedar and Pine. As I am writing this and coughing my head off... I just remembered that I had been given Pine Needle Tea with Honey when I was sick. Good thing that I have some Pine Trees outside and just saw some Honey earlier. I am in dire need for a good ole fashion Springtime Tonic made the old way... not from the bottle. And I don't mean anything else but a bottle of Pappy's Sassafras Tea. I grew up on that stuff. Dad took it up until he died. Oh well, gotta run and make me some tea and get back to the laundry. Later. Hope it helps. Dolores 'TwoWolvesDancing' (Cobb) Phifer aka Sparkle "Those who do not look upon themselves as a link connecting the past with the future do not perform their duty to the world" Daniel Webster ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lindsey Avery" <anathema_studio@hotmail.com> To: <CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 3:27 PM Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] No Indians in KY / Shawnees, Miquons, Susquehannas, Susquehannocks > thanks for the info two wolves dancing, that was really interesting. Any > idea who the original people who cursed KY were? Do you think perhaps they > may have moved on to South America, such as the Mexica (Aztecs)? > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "TwoWolvesDancing" <twowolvesdancing@comcast.net> > Reply-To: CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com > To: CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] No Indians in KY / Shawnees, Miquons, > Susquehannas, Susquehannocks > Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:49:51 -0500 > > 'Siyo. I haven't posted much lately, but felt to here... > Cherokees in the very early days used KY as only for Hunting Grounds. They > knew that KY was cursed. That is why Dragging Canoe had no problem giving > KY to Daniel Boone and company... but told them that they could have it. > And, that this land was a"dark and bloody land" and that "it had a dark > cloud over it". In my research and listening to some of the old ones that I > learned that the curse came from the original peoples in that land that were > merciless and bloody killers who were also cannibalistic in nature and much > blood was shed on this land. That's why the Cherokees did not live there for > too long of a period, but only used it for hunting. The Shawnees and > Miquon/Minqua (the English called them Susquehanna because they lived along > the Susquehanna River in PA, MD, and VA) The Shawnees and Miquons were > their protectors. You will often find the Shawnees protecting their > Cherokees) borders in exchange for protection. The Miquons protected any > where... not just the border. Miquons were very tall (giants) warriors who > came to fight, prepared to die. Miquon and Minqua and other variations of > it's spelling along with Susquehanna and Susquehannacks and it's other > variations of spelling, including Sasquahanna). Some called them Sasquatch > because of this spelling. Some of my mom's side Cherokees came out of the > north hills of NC and Wolf Town NC they moved into the lower part of KY. > They only stayed a few generations before moving more north into MD. > > So, there were plenty of Indians in KY back in the early days. To set the > record straight... Dragging Canoe did not curse KY before giving it to the > whites... he was probably laughing to himself saying something like "if > those stupid people want KY they can have it... we surely don't want it > knowing what we have known for many, many generations." Cherokees did not > curse for they knew the way/tradition that what goes around comes around... > now cursing could come from individuals, but not in general. > > TN has been going out of their way to destroy any remains of the old Indian > places and artifacts. They have destroyed mounds and old villages, covered > up these places and old burial grounds with housing developments and > business. Sitigo/Citigo/Settico is a prime example. One business man just covered > the burial place with gravel just in case someone wants to gather the bones > there on his place. One of the builders leveled an entire mound over night > so that no one had time to get an injunction to stop him. Now that greed > with one day come up and bite him in the you-know-what... if it hadn't > already. > > Just some things that I have learned from Cherokee elders and historians as > well as some Miquons. > > Hope this helps. > > Dolores 'TwoWolvesDancing' Phifer > aka Sparkle > > "Those who do not look upon themselves as a link > connecting the past with the future do not perform > their duty to the world" Daniel Webster ==== CHEROKEE Mailing List ==== <<>OPEN forum to all Cherokee topics - except Genealogy<>> <>Culture-History-Language-Folk lore and Truths<> Good Manners & Language is required to be on the list ALL the links you will need to sub and unsub or contact listowner below http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CHEROKEE.html ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx