Fran, Almost everyone in this part of the country planted by the signs. I am in southeast Tennessee. I would venture to say that the practive likely began with the ancient astronomers of Europe or Great Britian. BUT that is not to say that the Cherokee of the last few hundred years didn't exercise the practice. The Cherokee's and whites lived together here for a few hundred years. Joyce Gaston Reece -----Original Message----- From: Fran West-Powe Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 6:51 AM To: cherokee@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] Granddaddy's crops Joyce, enjoyed your note. Do you object to telling me if your family is Cherokee/Cherokee descent? As I am writing my life story for my children, grands, grgrands, etc., I like to name the source of info: where I found it. So, minus the given name, I would say something like: "planted by the moon is/was a Cherokee/Native practice". If you do not care to answer my question, that's okay and I am grateful you did write. It is noted that, for me, once I left my roots of S GA, N FL back country, locating a source of okra, was impossible in those days. Nor would okra grow up north to where I had re-located. Cooking without okra was difficult. Nowadays, one walks into the local market and there it is, frozen, but some of it seems to cook up well although just plain boiled as we used to do, does not taste the same so I don't do that anymore. BTW: tell your Mom to "keep on goin' '" and pretty soon she will catch up to me/my years. Again, thanks for writing and maybe you have answered the question for William and me. Fran Chinquapin On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 5:31 PM, Joyce Gaston Reece <bjreece@bellsouth.net>wrote: > Planting by the moon referred to the moons phases and the body parts each > phase represented. IE, my mom still says, at 86, that you needn't go > fishing when the signs were in the feet. Crops were planted by the > 'signs'. > The old Cardui Ladies Almanac was highly sought after in this part of the > country until the 1950's and 60's and we still see copies of it today. > > Mom would never allow us to chop the cabbage for kraut or churn the milk > when we had our 'monthlies'. Always said it would go bad. > > It's a funny thing about Okra. Seldom is it seen north of Tennessee. My > husband was born and raised in Bell Co, KY and Union Co., Indiana. He had > never seen Okra planted until he moved to McMinn, TN in the mid 1970's. I > can't recall never having it in our gardens. > > I also recall the first motorized push lawn mower we got. I'd mowed the > yard with a rotary until then. My older brother and sister weren't known > for helping out around the house a whole lot. > > We had white half runner beans, pink peanut beans and others that were > heirloom seeds so we planted them year after year. Field Corn or Silver > Queen Corn, occasionally some sweet golden queen corn. Planted the beans > to > climb the corn stalks. Cucumbers and yellow crookneck squash. > > Then there was the canning.......which I still do now > > > -----Original Message----- > From: wthreerivers@aol.com > Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 4:59 PM > To: cherokee@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] Granddaddy's crops > > > I have to admit Fran that I am very curious and would know that as well > > William Threerivers > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Fran West-Powe <fwestpowe@gmail.com> > To: CHEROKEE <CHEROKEE@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Fri, Mar 7, 2014 3:54 pm > Subject: [Cherokee Circle] Granddaddy's crops > > > My Daddy who told us we are Cheery-kee, left the farm early on, picked > strawberries in FL and fished for folks for a living so I never knew him > to > farm. Daddy did teach me how to live alone in our environment so that I > did > not need planted food. > > Granddaddy was another matter. With a wife and seventeen kids to feed, he > planted literally from daylight to dark with his mule and plow. I remember > our gourds were always removed first off, then re-planted elsewhere. Corn > was next, sweet potatoes. Beans and squash were planted by Granny, as > was okra . As best as I can recall all these years later, they were > planted pretty much in that order. Granny planted her peppers, the little > round ones that my people fancied. Today, Burpee has something that looks > similar called birdseye. > > Granny took her "digging stick", dug holes with it, and we eleven > grandchildren filled each hole with the number of seeds Granny > wanted/needed. Granny made us all flour sack bags, filled them with the > seeds she wanted each to plant and we followed her around dropping our > seeds where, and as, she told us. The biggest one of us always followed > with water bucket. > > Granddaddy was crazy about his sweet potatoes. He said he kept moving his > vines up closer to the house due to the 'gators also liking sweet potatoes > and the closer Granddaddy went to the house, the closer went the 'gators. > Granddaddy started loosing his dogs, he called them Cherokee bulldogs, in > the back yard when his potato vines were moved the last time. Do y'all > believe those bulldogs attacked 'gators? I didn't see it, but then > Granddaddy said it was so and the 'gators quit coming up near the house, > so > something worked. > > We still lived a lot off the land: wild greens, green plums, berries of > many kinds, roots that grew down near the water, turtle, fish and > squirrel; > but the vegetables/peppers named above were planted using the methods > described. > > One other item of possible interest: Granddaddy planted by the "moon". > Now, > being a child, I don't know what that meant. Maybe a reader knows and will > explain. > > Fran > Chinkapin > ======*====== > List archives > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokee > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CHEROKEE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > ======*====== > List archives > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokee > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CHEROKEE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > ======*====== > List archives > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokee > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CHEROKEE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ======*====== List archives http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokee ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHEROKEE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Never heard of that other Almanac. My original post was what the Cherokee's planted/grew before Columbus or the European Settlers had become an influence. Buffalo Bird Woman is a Hidatsa Indian & shared her family's & people's ways of what they had before the traders & soldiers came & afterwards. I found it fascinating & am interested in finding out what the Cherokee people had prior to the 100 yrs they were with the whites. :) She (Buffalo Bird Woman) was born around 1839 in an Earth Lodge along the Knife River which is in present day North Dakota. Her people moved upstream & built a new village in which they called it Like-a-fishhook village which they shared with the Mandan & Arikara. She became the expert gardener of the Hidatsa tribe. She used practices that were centuries old for her people. They grew corn, beans, squash, & sunflowers (which I became particularly interested in this) in the fertile bottomlands of the Missouri River. In the mid-1880's the US government for the villiage to break up & dispersed the families onto individual allotments on the For Berthold Reservation. He women continued to grow the veggies that provided the Midwestern Farmers some of their most important crops. She describes the field care, preparation, planting, harvesting, processing & storing of the veggies. Even gives some recipes & songs that they song. I don't know if the Cherokee people.....anyone has passed on such knowledge like this woman has made possible. But it'd be interesting to learn if they did. This village planted near a water source, they used natural fertilizer. They "dehydrated" their foods to preserve it & a few other things. I will go through it & list some of her ways...maybe they are similar to how others have done it too? -----Original Message----- From: cherokee-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:cherokee-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of jgreece55@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 7:15 AM To: cherokee@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] Granddaddy's crops Fran, Almost everyone in this part of the country planted by the signs. I am in southeast Tennessee. I would venture to say that the practive likely began with the ancient astronomers of Europe or Great Britian. BUT that is not to say that the Cherokee of the last few hundred years didn't exercise the practice. The Cherokee's and whites lived together here for a few hundred years. Joyce Gaston Reece

Each tribe of Native Americans would have had different resources for their food depending on the environment of where they lived. What she is telling about would pertain to her tribe and WHERE they lived. With the Cherokee here in the southeast that, naturally would have been different. The Appalachian Mountains are known for having more species of trees and plants than any other place in the world with the exception of a very similar region in China. That one fact would highly influence what they grew and what natural resources they tapped into. Desert and plains Indians would likely have had a completely different diet and plant/grow different kinds of crops. (These Native Americans of the south began seen white influence as early as the mid 1500's.) For instance, here they would have had, use of 30+ types of acorns, beech, hickory, pecan, chestnut and several other nut producing trees. Swamp potatoes, cattail roots, the usual corn, squash etc. They would have had several different types of berries. Meats included turkey, grouse, chicken (introduced in the 1300's via south and central America), bison, deer, elk and, of course, fish. I realize these aren't all 'crops' but there ya go. Joyce Gaston Reece -----Original Message----- From: Alli :) Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 11:47 AM To: cherokee@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] Granddaddy's crops Never heard of that other Almanac. My original post was what the Cherokee's planted/grew before Columbus or the European Settlers had become an influence. Buffalo Bird Woman is a Hidatsa Indian & shared her family's & people's ways of what they had before the traders & soldiers came & afterwards. I found it fascinating & am interested in finding out what the Cherokee people had prior to the 100 yrs they were with the whites. :) She (Buffalo Bird Woman) was born around 1839 in an Earth Lodge along the Knife River which is in present day North Dakota. Her people moved upstream & built a new village in which they called it Like-a-fishhook village which they shared with the Mandan & Arikara. She became the expert gardener of the Hidatsa tribe. She used practices that were centuries old for her people. They grew corn, beans, squash, & sunflowers (which I became particularly interested in this) in the fertile bottomlands of the Missouri River. In the mid-1880's the US government for the villiage to break up & dispersed the families onto individual allotments on the For Berthold Reservation. He women continued to grow the veggies that provided the Midwestern Farmers some of their most important crops. She describes the field care, preparation, planting, harvesting, processing & storing of the veggies. Even gives some recipes & songs that they song. I don't know if the Cherokee people.....anyone has passed on such knowledge like this woman has made possible. But it'd be interesting to learn if they did. This village planted near a water source, they used natural fertilizer. They "dehydrated" their foods to preserve it & a few other things. I will go through it & list some of her ways...maybe they are similar to how others have done it too? -----Original Message----- From: cherokee-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:cherokee-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of jgreece55@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 7:15 AM To: cherokee@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] Granddaddy's crops Fran, Almost everyone in this part of the country planted by the signs. I am in southeast Tennessee. I would venture to say that the practive likely began with the ancient astronomers of Europe or Great Britian. BUT that is not to say that the Cherokee of the last few hundred years didn't exercise the practice. The Cherokee's and whites lived together here for a few hundred years. Joyce Gaston Reece ======*====== List archives http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokee ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHEROKEE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I appreciate your reply. Thank you. Fran Chinkapin On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 9:15 AM, <jgreece55@gmail.com> wrote: > Fran, Almost everyone in this part of the country planted by the signs. I > am in southeast Tennessee. I would venture to say that the practive likely > began with the ancient astronomers of Europe or Great Britian. BUT that > is > not to say that the Cherokee of the last few hundred years didn't exercise > the practice. The Cherokee's and whites lived together here for a few > hundred years. > > > > Joyce Gaston Reece > -----Original Message----- > From: Fran West-Powe > Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 6:51 AM > To: cherokee@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] Granddaddy's crops > > Joyce, enjoyed your note. Do you object to telling me if your family is > Cherokee/Cherokee descent? As I am writing my life story for my children, > grands, grgrands, etc., I like to name the source of info: where I found > it. So, minus the given name, I would say something like: "planted by the > moon is/was a Cherokee/Native practice". > > If you do not care to answer my question, that's okay and I am grateful you > did write. > > It is noted that, for me, once I left my roots of S GA, N FL back country, > locating a source of okra, was impossible in those days. Nor would okra > grow up north to where I had re-located. Cooking without okra was > difficult. Nowadays, one walks into the local market and there it is, > frozen, but some of it seems to cook up well although just plain boiled as > we used to do, does not taste the same so I don't do that anymore. > > BTW: tell your Mom to "keep on goin' '" and pretty soon she will catch up > to me/my years. > > Again, thanks for writing and maybe you have answered the question for > William and me. > > Fran > Chinquapin > > > On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 5:31 PM, Joyce Gaston Reece > <bjreece@bellsouth.net>wrote: > > > Planting by the moon referred to the moons phases and the body parts each > > phase represented. IE, my mom still says, at 86, that you needn't go > > fishing when the signs were in the feet. Crops were planted by the > > 'signs'. > > The old Cardui Ladies Almanac was highly sought after in this part of the > > country until the 1950's and 60's and we still see copies of it today. > > > > Mom would never allow us to chop the cabbage for kraut or churn the milk > > when we had our 'monthlies'. Always said it would go bad. > > > > It's a funny thing about Okra. Seldom is it seen north of Tennessee. My > > husband was born and raised in Bell Co, KY and Union Co., Indiana. He > had > > never seen Okra planted until he moved to McMinn, TN in the mid 1970's. > I > > can't recall never having it in our gardens. > > > > I also recall the first motorized push lawn mower we got. I'd mowed the > > yard with a rotary until then. My older brother and sister weren't known > > for helping out around the house a whole lot. > > > > We had white half runner beans, pink peanut beans and others that were > > heirloom seeds so we planted them year after year. Field Corn or Silver > > Queen Corn, occasionally some sweet golden queen corn. Planted the beans > > to > > climb the corn stalks. Cucumbers and yellow crookneck squash. > > > > Then there was the canning.......which I still do now > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: wthreerivers@aol.com > > Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 4:59 PM > > To: cherokee@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] Granddaddy's crops > > > > > > I have to admit Fran that I am very curious and would know that as well > > > > William Threerivers > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Fran West-Powe <fwestpowe@gmail.com> > > To: CHEROKEE <CHEROKEE@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Fri, Mar 7, 2014 3:54 pm > > Subject: [Cherokee Circle] Granddaddy's crops > > > > > > My Daddy who told us we are Cheery-kee, left the farm early on, picked > > strawberries in FL and fished for folks for a living so I never knew him > > to > > farm. Daddy did teach me how to live alone in our environment so that I > > did > > not need planted food. > > > > Granddaddy was another matter. With a wife and seventeen kids to feed, he > > planted literally from daylight to dark with his mule and plow. I > remember > > our gourds were always removed first off, then re-planted elsewhere. Corn > > was next, sweet potatoes. Beans and squash were planted by Granny, as > > was okra . As best as I can recall all these years later, they were > > planted pretty much in that order. Granny planted her peppers, the little > > round ones that my people fancied. Today, Burpee has something that looks > > similar called birdseye. > > > > Granny took her "digging stick", dug holes with it, and we eleven > > grandchildren filled each hole with the number of seeds Granny > > wanted/needed. Granny made us all flour sack bags, filled them with the > > seeds she wanted each to plant and we followed her around dropping our > > seeds where, and as, she told us. The biggest one of us always followed > > with water bucket. > > > > Granddaddy was crazy about his sweet potatoes. He said he kept moving his > > vines up closer to the house due to the 'gators also liking sweet > potatoes > > and the closer Granddaddy went to the house, the closer went the 'gators. > > Granddaddy started loosing his dogs, he called them Cherokee bulldogs, in > > the back yard when his potato vines were moved the last time. Do y'all > > believe those bulldogs attacked 'gators? I didn't see it, but then > > Granddaddy said it was so and the 'gators quit coming up near the house, > > so > > something worked. > > > > We still lived a lot off the land: wild greens, green plums, berries of > > many kinds, roots that grew down near the water, turtle, fish and > > squirrel; > > but the vegetables/peppers named above were planted using the methods > > described. > > > > One other item of possible interest: Granddaddy planted by the "moon". > > Now, > > being a child, I don't know what that meant. Maybe a reader knows and > will > > explain. > > > > Fran > > Chinkapin > > ======*====== > > List archives > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokee > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > CHEROKEE-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body > > of > > the message > > > > > > ======*====== > > List archives > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokee > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > CHEROKEE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ======*====== > > List archives > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokee > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > CHEROKEE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ======*====== > List archives > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokee > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CHEROKEE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > ======*====== > List archives > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokee > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > CHEROKEE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >