Always be careful baby snakes are as venomous as large ones. Love ya Ruth

I know who the Indian Artifacts belong to.......they belong to the specific tribe that was located in the area of those artifacts......but not to Indians in general. And since your TOTALLY missing my message or what I stated......the current subject title fits very well right now And the original subject/topic is being dropped by me because the tone I'm getting from the message below is leading into an argument, which I'm not going to get into. Good night all Alli > Technically, whatever is on your property belongs to you. > Personally I didnt say you said anyone was obligated. The message was ro > Shadow bear. > MOre importantly Indian artifacts belong to Indians. > Delorra

Hi, Thought I would add a few words about snakes. I guess some of us attract snakes as well as other critters. It has been that way all my life: snakes. Not my choice but there they are, in the least expected places...wrapped around a rock I sat down on as an 8 yr. old bullfrog hunting in the creek with my father. The tote bag was heavy and I was tired. He was a big black snake and in the dark, I didn't see him, but my father did when he turned around and saw me sitting there. He just motioned to me to come to him and after I did, he showed my sitting companion. lol I stepped on a snake in the brush once. He reared his body up, mouth wide open, but didn't strike. I also stepped barefoot on a snake under my kitchen table one night, here in the house. I picked him up by the tail and took him outside. I'm not so brave, I just had no choice but to do it. And pulled a snake out from under my rug by the couch. Just barely saw his tail before he'd planned to disappear. When I was remodeling my house, I found a six foot snake skin in the attic. And, although I've only seen him once, I know there is an ancient black snake that lives in my basement. I'm sure he is a good mouser. When I first moved here there was a resident black snake that stayed right on the step of the front door 24/7. I had to push him aside with a broom coming and going. It was a game with him. He would roll up in a ball and I would sweep him about 10 feet across the grass. I think he stayed on the step just for the fun. He was here for eight years and then I think it was him that was run over. He was fun to play with. I should say I've never had a pet snake or wanted one although I played with garter snakes as a child. But then, I remember thinking they were big fishing worms when I first saw them. The foundation of my house is 1834 and rock. One section of the rock wall in the basement appears to 'move' when you turn the light on at night. It is only the scorpions going back into their holes. As frightening as this all sounds, I am not too much afraid as nothing as ever hurt me and I've lived here 19yrs. It's not a matter of keeping everything "out" as it was all here long before I took up residence and will be here when I am gone I'm sure. Living with nature and the wild has a lot of benefits. There have been the most beautiful colored lizards pass the back bedroom along the window sill as they find their way from where ever they came. Also had three flying squirrels stay here for a couple of weeks. It was a comedy watching them fly from wall to wall, room to room. Nineteen years have been spent making this house 'tight' but of course there is a portal someplace unknown that they enter and leave. I've mentioned my place before, here, it is home to deer, wild turkey, opossum, fox, raccoon, coyote, groundhog, eagle, hawk, whippoorwill, many owls, frogs, flying insects big enough to look in the eye, bobcat, panther and the occasional brown bear. and the many night sounds that go bump in the night I never see. This is their home and I am honored to be allowed to share it:) I remember recently reading posts about being skunked. To make a long story short, I raised 5 orphaned skunks here at my house, on the porch for six months. It was great and a wonderful experience learning from them, they never sprayed me. When they were finally grown I took them to a wildlife preserve about an hours drive from here and released them to their new beautiful home. I could not turn them out on my forty acres because I knew they would eventually be run over. At the preserve they had everything to live for an total safety from the outside environment. I try to read as many of the posts as I can, and manage about 90% of them. Because of my job and work schedule I do not always have the time or opportunity to write although I would have plenty to say. I had been up 24hrs. and slept four and woke up and decided to write to make up for some lost time. It's a long post but wanted to share a few things. I have tonight off from work. I have finally got my poles for my tipi and will be setting it up sometime. You would think I have a place picked out but I don't. I need to walk the ground and it will tell me. As I have mentioned previous, my place was an Osage village sometime in the late 1700's and before 1834. I find arrowheads and scrapers here also but they will stay here. I enjoy everyone's stories and thank you for sharing so much of your lives. Brin ``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` ----- Original Message ----- From: <EVERETTLATTIMORE@aol.com> To: <CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 8:22 PM Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] Fwd: Hobby > In a message dated 1/6/2006 9:14:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, > M0untainWindS0ng@aol.com writes: > If I go out for a walk when they are not hibernating I will see at least > one > so I feel like I attract them. I am terrified of them Ruth > ============================================================== > A couple of years ago during a really bad storm my roof caved in. About > 1/2 of the house had to be rebuilt. Anyway, near the end of the building > my > husband left........... Left. > So, the house didn't get put back completly, base board etc not put on. > So, about 5 months ago my daughter was walking down the hall and thought > she > saw a large yarn piece on the floor, She looked again, it was a snake. A > baby > snake, scared the h l out of her and me. When we tried to get it even as > small as it was it struck out. We finally, got it out of the house. She > made > sure it didn't get hurt. She, is like me that way even if it is a snake > she > doesn't want anything living hurt. > > Barb sc > > > ==== CHEROKEE Mailing List ==== > <<>OPEN forum to all Cherokee topics - except Genealogy<>> > <>Culture-History-Language-Folk lore and Truths<> > Good Manners & Language is required to be on the list > ALL the links you will need to sub and unsub or contact listowner below > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CHEROKEE.html > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

Barbara, I'll retire in 2 more years. I'll miss the customers but I won't miss the work.Retirement will give me more time to do the things I love the best. I enjoy rambling around looking for treasures, fishing, doing crafts and going to pow-wows. WES-Norma

Technically, whatever is on your property belongs to you. Personally I didnt say you said anyone was obligated. The message was ro Shadow bear. MOre importantly Indian artifacts belong to Indians. Delorra ..................................................... In a message dated 1/6/2006 9:59:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Alli" <iamcheroke@filertel.com> writes: >  Technically its illegal to dig up or even remove Indian artifacts w/o >documenting the location,etc. I didn't say it was right.....but its the law. >Many people find Indian burial sites or living locations dig up or find them >above ground & then turn around & sell them. which is more than likely how >they ended up in France. > >Personally I didn't say he was obligated.......at least not to the >government, but the info. of where the artificats were located & when should >be written down & kept w/the artificats for his descendents in later years >to be shared the history w/. > >Alli :) > >> Besides Shadow bear you are Indian and not only does most of it belong to your family you are entitled to have Indian artifacts.  When they collect things who knows where they will end up.  I spoke to a friend of mine the other day and she has a friend in France who knows of a shoplace or >> something maybe a museum that has loads of American Indian things. What >> right did whoever gave it to them to ever take it out of the country. So >> if I were you I wouldnt tell anyone anything and I feel you have no >> obligation to do so. You can seek on your own amongst the Indiand to find >> so owners but I wouldnt turn them over to anyone less than their owners. >> >> Many peolle find things on their property and I never heard of them trying >> to turn everything over to anyone. Besides you tried. >> Just my thoughts. >> Delorra

LOL You should have heard what was said about me to my hubby by a co-worker today LOL It was meant to be an insult, but it was a compliment LOL We (the family) went over to a friend of the families (Widow)today to "watch" the co-worker & a guy who had bought some equipment. Anyway the co-worker mentioned that he had to "collect" money for some guns of the widow's husband. Well, the co-worker left (so I thought) & I told the widow (Barbara) that you don't give something away w/o getting the money in your hand first. The co-worker heard me say that & I guess was a little put out LOL The co-worker told Kelly (hubby) that I was just like my dad (this is suppose to be a bad thing)(who is their boss). Kelly laughed & said yeah he's known that for several years what was he getting at. He mentioned I guess what I said. Kelly said Yep......she calls it like she see's it, says what's on her mind whether you like it or not. LOL Needless to say the co-worker left shortly afterwards......between myself & Kelly the co-worker wasn't having a great time while there LOL Alli :) > ================================================================= > Barb SC, I think you have me down pretty good but I am not calm when it > comes to messing with my sons or grandchildren. My husband has told > everyone for > years that they better watch out or she will be on the warpath. > My Cherokee Grandmother lived to be 84 and I never remember her even > raising > her voice and with all of us grand kids it had to be very trying at > times. > Dan, Alli, and Shadowbear are just special people that are willing to > share > with us. So thank you all for being here. > > Barbara > In Oklahoma Native America > > > > > > > > ==== CHEROKEE Mailing List ==== > <<>OPEN forum to all Cherokee topics - except Genealogy<>> > <>Culture-History-Language-Folk lore and Truths<> > Good Manners & Language is required to be on the list > ALL the links you will need to sub and unsub or contact listowner below > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CHEROKEE.html > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >

In a message dated 1/6/2006 8:00:40 PM Central Standard Time, EVERETTLATTIMORE@aol.com writes: I too Shadow Bear I read in the mornings before work. Sometimes I bring you all to work with me. So, I can read at lunch. Or if the bosses leave for awhile. When I come home, I log on an leave the board open while I fix dinner, I can hear if a message come. Maybe, this is bad. I really enjoy reading from everyone. Shadow said in another post, he thinks much of everyone here. I think, Barbara from Oklahoma is much like her name, friendly, calm, happy. I think, Alli, is young, very busy, loves her children very much, hungry and so very thirsty for knoweldge, it is hard I think for her to persue both as she would like. Dan, I think is a nice man, maybe a teacher once. Patient (most of the time) really enjoys study and more enjoys shareing what he learns. But, he thinks folks should read, and learn not just have it handed to them. Shadow Bear, What can be said of Shadow Bear. Maybe the pureist soul I have ever incounterd. Wise even beyond his years. A love for life and his people beyond measure. Barb SC ================================================================= Barb SC, I think you have me down pretty good but I am not calm when it comes to messing with my sons or grandchildren. My husband has told everyone for years that they better watch out or she will be on the warpath. My Cherokee Grandmother lived to be 84 and I never remember her even raising her voice and with all of us grand kids it had to be very trying at times. Dan, Alli, and Shadowbear are just special people that are willing to share with us. So thank you all for being here. Barbara In Oklahoma Native America

In a message dated 1/6/2006 9:12:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, M0untainWindS0ng@aol.com writes: haven't been back long but I "feel" your observations of those people are very accurate Ruth ========================================================== We haven't heard a whole lot from you Ruth. But, I think maybe you are a type that listens very intently and speaks when it is important and pointful. Wise..... Barb sc

In a message dated 1/6/2006 9:14:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, M0untainWindS0ng@aol.com writes: If I go out for a walk when they are not hibernating I will see at least one so I feel like I attract them. I am terrified of them Ruth ============================================================== A couple of years ago during a really bad storm my roof caved in. About 1/2 of the house had to be rebuilt. Anyway, near the end of the building my husband left........... Left. So, the house didn't get put back completly, base board etc not put on. So, about 5 months ago my daughter was walking down the hall and thought she saw a large yarn piece on the floor, She looked again, it was a snake. A baby snake, scared the h l out of her and me. When we tried to get it even as small as it was it struck out. We finally, got it out of the house. She made sure it didn't get hurt. She, is like me that way even if it is a snake she doesn't want anything living hurt. Barb sc

I haven't been back long but I "feel" your observations of those people are very accurate Ruth

In a message dated 1/6/2006 6:02:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, vdach@gte.net writes: Thanks Dan for all that you do. > > Jim in SC ========================================================== Me to Dan thanks for being Patient with me I mess up alot. But you have nice told me to correct it. See Above a break line. Barb sc

If I go out for a walk when they are not hibernating I will see at least one so I feel like I attract them. I am terrified of them Ruth

In a message dated 1/6/2006 3:38:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, shadowbear270@webtv.net writes: There is a lot of very nice people on this list==please just because we are not talking much right now don't even think of leaving we need you very much==I call this place my family==first thing I do in the morning is read my family and what they have done while I sleep SHADOW BEAR =============================================================== I too Shadow Bear I read in the mornings before work. Sometimes I bring you all to work with me. So, I can read at lunch. Or if the bosses leave for awhile. When I come home, I log on an leave the board open while I fix dinner, I can hear if a message come. Maybe, this is bad. I really enjoy reading from everyone. Shadow said in another post, he thinks much of everyone here. I think, Barbara from Oklahoma is much like her name, friendly, calm, happy. I think, Alli, is young, very busy, loves her children very much, hungry and so very thirsty for knoweldge, it is hard I think for her to persue both as she would like. Dan, I think is a nice man, maybe a teacher once. Patient (most of the time) really enjoys study and more enjoys shareing what he learns. But, he thinks folks should read, and learn not just have it handed to them. Shadow Bear, What can be said of Shadow Bear. Maybe the pureist soul I have ever incounterd. Wise even beyond his years. A love for life and his people beyond measure. Barb SC

Phew I thought it was just me LOL Alli :) > Getting this post several times.Speaking of echo hehe Ruth

Hope you get to feeling better soon Ruth Alli :) > I've been a little ill so I'm not thinking clearly but love to read the > posts Love and prayers Ruth

Hey if everyone starts lurking we're going to go into hibernation & that's no fun :( Alli > Okay I will be here lurking and typing when I need to know or ask > something. > > Barbara > In Oklahoma Native America > > > > > > > > ==== CHEROKEE Mailing List ==== > <<>OPEN forum to all Cherokee topics - except Genealogy<>> > <>Culture-History-Language-Folk lore and Truths<> > Good Manners & Language is required to be on the list > ALL the links you will need to sub and unsub or contact listowner below > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CHEROKEE.html > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

In a message dated 1/6/2006 1:41:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, M0untainWindS0ng@aol.com writes: Rummage the barn in the winter when the snakes are hibernating.Thats when I take my walks in the woods lol I seem to attract them lol Ruth ============================================================ Ruth: you attract snakes???? Barb SC

Technically its illegal to dig up or even remove Indian artifacts w/o documenting the location,etc. I didn't say it was right.....but its the law. Many people find Indian burial sites or living locations dig up or find them above ground & then turn around & sell them. which is more than likely how they ended up in France. Personally I didn't say he was obligated.......at least not to the government, but the info. of where the artificats were located & when should be written down & kept w/the artificats for his descendents in later years to be shared the history w/. Alli :) > Besides Shadow bear you are Indian and not only does most of it belong to > your family you are entitled to have Indian artifacts. When they collect > things who knows where they will end up. I spoke to a friend of mine the > other day and she has a friend in France who knows of a shoplace or > something maybe a museum that has loads of American Indian things. What > right did whoever gave it to them to ever take it out of the country. So > if I were you I wouldnt tell anyone anything and I feel you have no > obligation to do so. You can seek on your own amongst the Indiand to find > so owners but I wouldnt turn them over to anyone less than their owners. > > Many peolle find things on their property and I never heard of them trying > to turn everything over to anyone. Besides you tried. > Just my thoughts. > Delorra

I gotta laugh at the subject line.........its a bit scary to see my name connected to "your right". I had to find the original message to see what I did LOL (laughing) Well, I'm not too worried about it being reported to the Feds or who ever its suppose to be. I'm thinking more of the info. being passed down to the family members so they have the info. of when & where it was found, what tribe (if different from the Cherokee Tribe) that it may belong to. Many generations from now they may not have been told where you found the artifacts. I don't want to see any more Indian property end up in a warehouse.....trust me Alli :) > we use to call them every time we found a site==once in a while they > would come out==most of the time they never came ==if they ever take > this stuff it ends up in a warehouse some where never to be seen > again==Now we don't bother them==we show these things they never > do==besides this stuff belongs to my family==not some one running a > warehouse==I know where the gov. road is back by Mountain Grove==called > them telling them all about it ==this is where the Trail Of Tears went > thru no one every showed up==they don't care all they do is talk

The first Texan says, "My name is Roger. I own 250,000 acres. I have 1,000 head of cattle and they call my place The Jolly Roger." The second Texan says, "My name is John. I own 350,000 acres. I have 5,000 head of cattle and they call my place Big Johns." They both look down at the Jewish man who says, "My name is Irving and I own 300 acres." Roger looks down at him and says, "300 Acres? What do you raise?" "Nothing" Irving says. "Well then, what do you call it?", asked John. The little old Jewish man says, "Downtown Dallas." Barbara In Oklahoma Native America