hehehe actually I know exactly what you're talking about, Sparkle. I use my "feelings" most of the time to guide my decisions. They've kept me out of a lot of trouble, and I usually get good warnings about things to come in dreams or just feeling what I call "presense" that give me a "heads up" about what's coming. I've even had some all out visions. My friends say I have a "satellite dish". ;) I don't know much about the old ways unfortunately. But I've got my own ways that seem to have come from somewhere unknown, because no one else taught me anything. Course I've been searching for the source of these experiences for years, never quite found it. I've studied the Qabbalah, multiple pagan beliefs, Buddhism, Taoism, ancient Sumerian and Japanese beliefs, and, though I've found similarities, I still haven't quite found exactly the same thing as with me. On the same note, since no one around me really believes in these things, its hard when I get warnings about my friends or family and can't help them because they won't listen. Like my fiance, he had a head on car accident yesterday. I'd had a dream about it, and had been telling him something was wrong with the way the car "felt" for days now. But people around me tend to treat dreams, and premonitions about things like they aren't real. So usually all I can do is watch the bad things happen. ----Original Message Follows---- From: "TwoWolvesDancing" <twowolvesdancing@comcast.net> Reply-To: CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com To: CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] No Indians in KY / Shawnees, Miquons, Susquehannas, Susquehannocks / KY, old time ways Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:43:06 -0500 'Siyo Lindsey. Thanks. Earlier I said that Dragging Canoe shared that they could have it this land but that it was a"dark and bloody land" and that "it had a dark cloud over it". In my research and listening to some of the old ones that I learned that the curse came from the original peoples in that land that were merciless and bloody killers who were also cannibalistic in nature and much blood was shed on this land. I have heard a few stories... one even said that these ancient people that were in Kentucky way back in the beginning were some of the ancient Buzzard Cult. The Buzzard Cult had mounds and villages throughout America, Mexico, and South America. It wasn't that the Buzzard Cult or whoever put curses on the land, but that the Blood of the land cried out for judgment and that their evil and monstrous deeds that brought the evil to the land... thus the "dark cloud over the land" and the "dark and bloody land" from all of the innocent blood that was shed from th! eir victims. Some of the Old Ones tell of the dark spirits that ride the storms. Most Indians and I am including us mixedbloods can sense when something is not right when we go places. Our 'red flag' goes up. Our spirit is telling us to be on guard for something. Why do you thing that we smudged, smoked tobacco prayerfully, and wore medicine bags... for protection and/or getting rid/shaking loose that which may have been picked up. We need to take heed to our inner feelings and follow through with what we know. Otherwise... we can pick up a mess and bring it home with us. This was the way it was back then and why things are the way they are now for some. Ever feel icky after being in a hospital, nursing home, or cemetery? Think about that now. The old Cherokees did not mix medicines... ours worked just fine. Cherokees used Pine and Cedar. Up North had their own version of a Sweet Grass... we down here in the South did not. Lenapes and Miquons used Common Flat Cedar and some of the Haudensaunee and Algonquins used Common Flat Cedar and Pine. As I am writing this and coughing my head off... I just remembered that I had been given Pine Needle Tea with Honey when I was sick. Good thing that I have some Pine Trees outside and just saw some Honey earlier. I am in dire need for a good ole fashion Springtime Tonic made the old way... not from the bottle. And I don't mean anything else but a bottle of Pappy's Sassafras Tea. I grew up on that stuff. Dad took it up until he died. Oh well, gotta run and make me some tea and get back to the laundry. Later. Hope it helps. Dolores 'TwoWolvesDancing' (Cobb) Phifer aka Sparkle "Those who do not look upon themselves as a link connecting the past with the future do not perform their duty to the world" Daniel Webster ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lindsey Avery" <anathema_studio@hotmail.com> To: <CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 3:27 PM Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] No Indians in KY / Shawnees, Miquons, Susquehannas, Susquehannocks > thanks for the info two wolves dancing, that was really interesting. Any > idea who the original people who cursed KY were? Do you think perhaps they > may have moved on to South America, such as the Mexica (Aztecs)? > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "TwoWolvesDancing" <twowolvesdancing@comcast.net> > Reply-To: CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com > To: CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] No Indians in KY / Shawnees, Miquons, > Susquehannas, Susquehannocks > Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:49:51 -0500 > > 'Siyo. I haven't posted much lately, but felt to here... > Cherokees in the very early days used KY as only for Hunting Grounds. They > knew that KY was cursed. That is why Dragging Canoe had no problem giving > KY to Daniel Boone and company... but told them that they could have it. > And, that this land was a"dark and bloody land" and that "it had a dark > cloud over it". In my research and listening to some of the old ones that I > learned that the curse came from the original peoples in that land that were > merciless and bloody killers who were also cannibalistic in nature and much > blood was shed on this land. That's why the Cherokees did not live there for > too long of a period, but only used it for hunting. The Shawnees and > Miquon/Minqua (the English called them Susquehanna because they lived along > the Susquehanna River in PA, MD, and VA) The Shawnees and Miquons were > their protectors. You will often find the Shawnees protecting their > Cherokees) borders in exchange for protection. The Miquons protected any > where... not just the border. Miquons were very tall (giants) warriors who > came to fight, prepared to die. Miquon and Minqua and other variations of > it's spelling along with Susquehanna and Susquehannacks and it's other > variations of spelling, including Sasquahanna). Some called them Sasquatch > because of this spelling. Some of my mom's side Cherokees came out of the > north hills of NC and Wolf Town NC they moved into the lower part of KY. > They only stayed a few generations before moving more north into MD. > > So, there were plenty of Indians in KY back in the early days. To set the > record straight... Dragging Canoe did not curse KY before giving it to the > whites... he was probably laughing to himself saying something like "if > those stupid people want KY they can have it... we surely don't want it > knowing what we have known for many, many generations." Cherokees did not > curse for they knew the way/tradition that what goes around comes around... > now cursing could come from individuals, but not in general. > > TN has been going out of their way to destroy any remains of the old Indian > places and artifacts. They have destroyed mounds and old villages, covered > up these places and old burial grounds with housing developments and > business. Sitigo/Citigo/Settico is a prime example. One business man just covered > the burial place with gravel just in case someone wants to gather the bones > there on his place. One of the builders leveled an entire mound over night > so that no one had time to get an injunction to stop him. Now that greed > with one day come up and bite him in the you-know-what... if it hadn't > already. > > Just some things that I have learned from Cherokee elders and historians as > well as some Miquons. > > Hope this helps. > > Dolores 'TwoWolvesDancing' Phifer > aka Sparkle > > "Those who do not look upon themselves as a link > connecting the past with the future do not perform > their duty to the world" Daniel Webster ==== CHEROKEE Mailing List ==== <<>OPEN forum to all Cherokee topics - except Genealogy<>> <>Culture-History-Language-Folk lore and Truths<> Good Manners & Language is required to be on the list ALL the links you will need to sub and unsub or contact listowner below http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CHEROKEE.html ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

Glooscap Turns Bad Into Good When Glooscap came in from the sea, he was riding his canoe,which was made of stone. He ran aground near what we now call St. John. He had been chasing two giant beavers. He was trying to stop them from raising any trouble. He tried to stop them right there, where the Reversing Falls is today. He built a dam so they couldn't go up the river. But still, the beavers managed to get past Glooscap, and travelled up the "Beautiful River", which is now called the St. John River. Glooscap took two stones and threw them at these beavers. One stone landed a long way up the river and became Grand Falls. The other stone hit the beaver. It landed in a rocky area, which is now called Plaster Rock. To this day, you can still see the red clay on the river bank. They say that this comes from the blood of the beaver. Glooscap often used animals who were bad to make something good. He paddled up and down this Beautiful River (St. John) many times. Even near Kingsclear where Glooscap came up, long before the Mactaquac Dam was built, he used the ledges to hold on to when he fell. Glooscap even left his image on those rocks. And where he left his snowshoes is where they were transformed and turned into The Snowshoe Islands. These are all sacred places. Even the little people lived near the village of Kingsclear. As retold by Elder: Charles Solomon of Kingsclear and Luke Simon of Big Cove Reposted with Permission from Brother to Horse. From the Archives of Blue Panther Keeper of Stories.

Glooscap Turns Bad Into Good When Glooscap came in from the sea, he was riding his canoe,which was made of stone. He ran aground near what we now call St. John. He had been chasing two giant beavers. He was trying to stop them from raising any trouble. He tried to stop them right there, where the Reversing Falls is today. He built a dam so they couldn't go up the river. But still, the beavers managed to get past Glooscap, and travelled up the "Beautiful River", which is now called the St. John River. Glooscap took two stones and threw them at these beavers. One stone landed a long way up the river and became Grand Falls. The other stone hit the beaver. It landed in a rocky area, which is now called Plaster Rock. To this day, you can still see the red clay on the river bank. They say that this comes from the blood of the beaver. Glooscap often used animals who were bad to make something good. He paddled up and down this Beautiful River (St. John) many times. Even near Kingsclear where Glooscap came up, long before the Mactaquac Dam was built, he used the ledges to hold on to when he fell. Glooscap even left his image on those rocks. And where he left his snowshoes is where they were transformed and turned into The Snowshoe Islands. These are all sacred places. Even the little people lived near the village of Kingsclear. As retold by Elder: Charles Solomon of Kingsclear and Luke Simon of Big Cove Reposted with Permission from Brother to Horse. From the Archives of Blue Panther Keeper of Stories.

Buffalo Field Campaign Update from the Field March 16, 2006 ------------------------------ View Exclusive Video Footage & Photos: http://www.buffalofieldcampaign.org ------------------------------ Make a Secure Online Donation to BFC: http://www.buffalofieldcampaign.org/bisonmerchandise/bisonmerchandise.html ------------------------------ Join BFC on the Front Lines - Volunteer! http://www.buffalofieldcampaign.org/aboutus/volunteeringatcamp.html ------------------------------ Why are they killing the last wild buffalo? http://www.buffalofieldcampaign.org/issueinbrief.html ------------------------------ In this issue: * Update from the Field * Speed Kills - Help Protect Buffalo on the Road * BFC Heads to D.C.! Presentation at Patagonia this Saturday! * Last Words - Governor Brian Schweitzer ------------------------------ * Update from the Field Listening to the radio in our media cabin right now, I hear our field patrols communicate as they document a DOL hazing operation; the agents have harassed the few buffalo that remained along Hebgen Lake. For over two months we were graced with upwards of forty-five beautiful buffalo there, completing the landscape with their round, dark shapes silhouetted in the snowy distance. Every day we would admire these buffalo, smiling as we saw them, yet we knew the DOL wouldn't let them stay. Not because they were hurting anything, but simply because they are buffalo. A DOL cowboy's prejudice runs deep. Yesterday, thirty-three of our friends were sent to slaughter by the DOL. So much for Governor Schweitzer's "tolerance." The talk of politicians is the cheapest of all. A mixed group of pregnant mamas, calves, yearlings and young bulls and cows, these are the very same buffalo that the DOL ran through the ice in January, when twelve fell through into frigid water and two drowned. Strong survivors, ten miraculously lived after being submerged for three hours. Since that awful day, the buffalo held their composure and quietly remained along the lakeshore, sustaining themselves on what little grass they could find, just trying to survive until Spring. Frustrated with their gentle presence, last week the DOL made a half-hearted attempt to haze these buffalo. Yet, they never really gave it that good ol' cowboy try. Fearing a repeat of the ice incident, they abandoned two operations without much effort and quickly deemed the buffalo "unhazable." On Tuesday, the DOL set up shop on private land near the Hebgen Lake buffalo. They plowed and tore up the earth, creating snowbanks that would lead to their portable, make-shift bison trap. Field patrols enjoyed some comical relief as the DOL managed to get a gigantic snow-blower stuck, scattering the buffalo they were aiming to capture. But the agents would have their way. Late that afternoon, after constructing a makeshift portable trap, they set out on snowmobiles and began to harass the wild buffalo. They surrounded them, hooting and hollering - loud and obnoxious. The frightened buffalo tried to dodge the machines, but the agents were determined. It's amazing with the DOL's carelessness and disregard of the buffalo's wild nature that no agents have been gored. The buffalo, strong wild spirits, gave the agents a very difficult time. Eleven buffalo managed to escape capture that day. But thirty-three of our friends were trapped, loaded onto livestock trailers and trucked to the Duck Creek Capture Facility where they spent the night in cold confinement. Early the next morning they were shipped to slaughter. They were never even tested for brucellosis antibodies. There are no cattle within forty miles of West Yellowstone. View this week's footage and read yesterday's press release: http://www.buffalofieldcampaign.org. Today, as this is being written, ten of the lake buffalo are being hazed by agents on snowmobiles and ATVs, down highway 287 back to the Yellowstone border. Another female buffalo bedded down in the road during the DOL's haze. A FWP agent approached her and tried to get her to move. She wouldn't budge. Likely, she's one of the survivors of January's ice incident and had been surviving well enough until the DOL's recent hazing activities. After the agent concluded that she was in extremely bad shape, he shot her. Her body, instead of nourishing waking grizzly bears, has been transported to the local dump. It's time to put a little more pressure on Governor Schweitzer (406-444-3111). In fact, he needs to hear from you on a couple of things like road crossings (see below) and tolerance. Last week he was interviewed on Yellowstone Public Radio (see "Last Words") and spoke about more tolerance for buffalo, but in the same breath he defined new "drop dead zones." Evidently, Montana needs to look up the definition of "tolerance." And, why, when Schweitzer has said there shouldn't be any capture or slaughter along Yellowstone's western boundary, were thirty-three wild buffalo killed yesterday by Montana? Meanwhile, in Gardiner, the Park Service wranglers haze the buffalo nearly every day of the week. Thanks to the Church Universal & Triumphant, who took $13 million from U.S. taxpayers under the assumption that wild buffalo would be allowed to roam the land. Unfortunately, the land deal was never finalized and wild buffalo continue to be hazed, captured and slaughtered for merely approaching that land. Domestic cows roam free in and around the Yellowstone River while America's last wild buffalo are harassed, killed, and quarantined by the Park Service. Incidentally, Yellowstone officials slaughtered more wild buffalo in January and February than at any other time in their history. Yellowstone rangers don't deserve to wear the buffalo on their badges as they dishonor this American icon through constant harassment, confinement, and slaughter. BFC patrols are working hard to document actions against the buffalo and to warn traffic that the buffalo's migration is in progress. We need your help to hold responsible agencies accountable and to advocate for the remaining wild buffalo's lasting protection. With the Buffalo, ~Stephany ------------------------------ * Speed Kills - Help Protect Buffalo on the Road Highway 191 is a north/south route that dissects three major wildlife migration corridors, paths that follow Duck Creek, Cougar Creek and the Madison River. The road cuts through Gallatin National Forest just a couple miles from Yellowstone National Park and serves as a major, high-speed thoroughfare for commercial vehicles and tourists. But wild buffalo who have been walking this land for thousands of years use the road as an easy pathway enabling them to travel from point A to point B without the challenge of deep snow. They also like the grass they find on the side of the road exposed by the snow plows. With heavy traffic speeding through, it's a dangerous recipe for disaster. During the buffalo's Spring migration, which is just beginning, BFC patrols are busy well into the night warning traffic of the presence of buffalo on the road. Most local law enforcement ignore the dangers and leave the job to us. Accidents are sometimes barely averted, but thanks to the presence of our patrols, many buffalo lives - and the lives of unwary travelers - are saved. Unfortunately, the presence of BFC isn't enough. On Monday night, our patrols were out helping warn traffic of buffalo on highway 191. A group of eight buffalo were on the road. Unfortunately, a van that wasn't aware of our patrols or the buffalo came speeding through and three bison calves were struck. The calves were seriously injured. A Park Ranger that had been helping our patrols warn traffic that night, put an end to the baby buffalos' misery with gunshots. Needless to say, patrols came home shaken and sad, determined to help do more to raise awareness on the road. Last night, a bull bison was struck and killed by a speeding semi on 191. One of our board members spotted him on her way home and saw the semi coming. She tried to warn the truck of the buffalo's presence, but the truck ignored the signals and struck the buffalo dead. A long-time local supporter, barb, has been hard at work contacting the powers that be to help change these road conditions, and we need the help of all buffalo friends in this effort. Her call to action is below: For the past two weeks I have been in touch with the Montana Department of Transportation (DOT), the governor's office and Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks (FWP) regarding the need for warning signs and lowering of speed limit on 191 from the north end of town to the Fir Ridge Cemetery hill. During the bison hunt the speed limit was 55mph and there were warning signs in place. When the hunt ended, the signs were taken down and the speed limit was raised to 70mph. The editor of our local newspaper, West Yellowstone News, who travels this road twice a day, called Jim Lynch, Director of MT DOT as to why this occurred; he was told by Lynch that they took down the signs and returned to state speed limit of 70mph because "the major bison migration ended in February". Major bison migration occurs NOW in March, April and May as bison travel to Horse Butte, their traditional calving grounds west of the park. On the sign issue there was immediate response and blinking signs warning BISON ON ROAD were up within hours ... unfortunately, the state only had two signs so there is no sign at the 191/287 intersection or southbound lane just before the Madison River hill where a majority of buffalo cross. It seems like we only have million$ of dollars to haze, capture and $laughter. Joining in the effort for signs and lowering the speed limit has been Pat Flowers, FWP region 3 supervisor. The governor's office is suggesting we need to have permanent warning signs, a good idea that will take time to implement. We need to bombard the following people with emails and let all these people know that we are concerned that not only will buffalo be killed but we have a potential catastrophe with a person being killed. I hate to think that it will have to come to that in order for change to occur. Please contact the following decision-makers and urge them to make the highways safer for wildlife and travellers. * Jim Lynch jilynch@mt.gov -- he has the power to lower the speed limit and has not yet responded to our demands * Hal Harper hharper@mt.gov -- the governor's chief policy aide ... the governor's office is Jim Lynch's employer and we must demand that they do something to get their employee to lower the speed limit * Pat Flowers pflowers@mt.gov -- thank Pat for his department's efforts in getting the signs up and his efforts to lower the speed limit for the WILD ones, barb abramo philbarb@montana.net ------------------------------ * BFC Heads to D.C.! Presentation at Patagonia this Saturday! BFC's Josh Osher will be in Washington D.C. next week to talk to members of Congress about H.R. 2428, the Yellowstone Buffalo Preservation Act. He'll also be at the Georgetown Patagonia store this Saturday, sharing video footage, discussing the plight of Yellowstone's wild buffalo, and letting folks know how to stop the senseless killing of these magnificent icons of the American west. Free event. WHEN: Saturday, March 18th, 2006 at 2:00 PM WHERE: Georgetown Patagonia, 1048 Wisconsin Ave. NW, Washington DC BFC will also host a table starting at 10 a.m., this Saturday, just a few hours before the presentation in conjunction with Patagonia's support for the Georgetown C&O Canal Clean-up. Chat and learn, pick up a newsletter. Buffalo Field Campaign tee shirts available for sale to support the Buffalo. Find out how you can help. Donations are also gratefully accepted. Many huge thanks to Patagonia for being such a courageous voice for the last wild buffalo and strong supporter of the Buffalo Field Campaign. For more information call Patagonia at 202-333-1776. Learn more about H.R. 2428 at http://www.buffalofieldcampaign.org/legislative/buffalopreservation.html and please contact your House and Senate members, urging their sponsorship of this critical legislation: http://www.buffalofieldcampaign.org/actnow/politicians.html. ------------------------------ * Last Words Governor Brian Schweitzer responds to a listerner's concerns about the treatment of Yellowstone's bison: "Wyoming and Idaho have already lost their brucellosis-free status, and it wasn't even because of bison, it was because of elk. Here's our dilemma in Montana: That a small number of cattle that are in the West Yellowstone area [only true from June to October, when bison are in the Park] and in the Gardiner area. Bison move out of the Park. There's no fence there and there will not be a fence. We can't stop the bison from moving out of the Park when the snow is deep. They come out and for the last number of years the management technique has been to haze them back into the park or round them up and slaughter them. Now, it makes sense to me that we have to have a situation where cattle and bison are not co-located in the same area. If we do not have bison co-located with cattle, we have a zero chance of brucellosis transmission.... What are the steps that we need to take? There are a small number of private cattle operators in that area...we would like to raise private and public money... why don't we find a way of buying easements on those small pieces of property in those contained basins and remove the cattle? We would pay these (livestock) operators a large sum of money. Remove the possibility of any transmission. Then we allow the bison to range a little further out of the Park but we create a zone they can be within... if they get to Hebgen Lake or the dam, that's it, that's as far as they can go. We will not allow bison to go beyond that. It would be literally a "drop dead zone." The same is true, for example, if they were to move up towards the Gallatin River. There would be a drop dead zone there as well and over in the Gardiner area, maybe Yankee Jim Canyon or something like that. You know, in Northern Alberta they have the woods bison herd... about forty percent of them have brucellosis. They manage them by letting them wander over a larger area. But there is a place at which if anybody in Alberta sees one of those bison, they can shoot them on site twelve months of the year." This is from an interview aired on Yellowstone Public Radio, March 9, 2006. To listen to the entire interview (with more bison comments from Governor Schweitzer) visit http://www.yellowstonepublicradio.org. ------------------------------ -- Media & Outreach Buffalo Field Campaign P.O. Box 957 West Yellowstone, MT 59758 406-646-0070 bfc-media@wildrockies.org http://www.buffalofieldcampaign.org BFC is the only group working in the field every day to defend the last wild herd of buffalo in America. Stay informed! Get our weekly email Updates from the Field: Send your email address to bfc-media@wildrockies.org BOYCOTT BEEF! It's what's killing wild buffalo. Speak Out! Contact politicians and involved agencies today: http://www.buffalofieldcampaign.org/actnow/politicians.html Write a Letter to the Editor of key newspapers: http://www.buffalofieldcampaign.org/actnow/lte.html Help the buffalo by recycling your used cell phones & printer cartridges: It's free and easy. http://www.buffalofieldcampaign.org/support/recycleprint.html.

anna, my mother and grandmother gave me a dose (spoonful) of turpentine, and sugar for the croup when I was small. along with it came a hot mustard plaster on my chest. we also used to make our own cough syrup: a slice of onion, spread with sugar, do this until it is stacked high about 8 slices in a bowl, then weigh the top down with a heavy saucer over night...often with a sadiron on top of the saucer. the next day the juice which was pressed out was given as a teaspoon for cough syrup to sooth the throat. the rest of the juice was put in a brown bottle with a cork and kept in a cool place. i was told this story all my life: when my mother was six years old she developed diphtheria. she was so sick all of the family and neighbors were brought to the outside window of the house to see her one last time before she died. my great grandmother at that time gave her turpentine and sugar and continued to do so. my mother coughed up a ball of 'stuff' that looked like a brillo pad (steel wool) and after that happened she began to improve. it took a year for her to recover but her life was saved. moonsister ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----- Original Message ----- From: "anna wilson" <artyndn@cityscope.net> To: <CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 12:10 AM Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] old home remedys > turpentine is poison for young children as they tend to breath it in and > get pneumonia. in olden days it was mixed with sugar or honey .to hide the > taste.anna in houston

turpentine is poison for young children as they tend to breath it in and get pneumonia. in olden days it was mixed with sugar or honey .to hide the taste.anna in houston ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pestana, Sherry" <PestanS@sutterhealth.org> To: <CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 5:45 PM Subject: RE: [Cherokee Circle] No Indians in KY / Shawnees, Miquons, Susquehannas, Susquehannocks > Joyce, do you know what the turpentine was mixed with to do your throat >

Hi Kevin... forgot these... http://www.google.com/search?q=%22John+Thomas+Brown%22,+canoe&hl=en&lr=&rls= GGLG,GGLG:2006-04,GGLG:en&filter=0 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLG%2CGGLG%3A2006-04%2CGGLG%3Aen &q=%22John+Brown%22%2C+Canoot&btnG=Search http://www.google.com/search?q=%22John+Brown%22,+Canut&hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLG,GG LG:2006-04,GGLG:en&filter=0 http://www.google.com/search?q=%22John+Brown%22,+Sarah+Canut&hl=en&lr=&rls=G GLG,GGLG:2006-04,GGLG:en&filter=0 Tips: Don't forget to try all different kinds of combinations, including misspellings, with and without middle names, and or middle initials. Hope this helps. Dolores 'TwoWolvesDancing' (Cobb) Phifer aka Sparkle "Those who do not look upon themselves as a link connecting the past with the future do not perform their duty to the world" Daniel Webster > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <KRobertsInCA@aol.com> > To: <CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 2:58 PM > Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] No Indians in KY / Shawnees, Miquons, > Susquehannas, Sus... Kevin... make sure you use quotes... it really helps. Also check Carpenter... this was also one of his surnames that followed... remember that hi father was aka Little Carpenter. Canoe was one of the biggies. And, I have heard that Brown was one of his descendents. Sarah Quarters Canoot-or Canoe ... was it? does anyone have any information about the name Canoot, was there a Sarah Canoot ,? when and where was she born, who was her Parents/ Helen . ... www.jenforum.net/canoot/messages/1.html http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006- 04,GGLG:en&q=%22Sarah+Quarters%22 http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Sarah+Quarters%22,+brown&hl=en&lr=&rls=GGL G,GGLG:2006-04,GGLG:en&filter=0 Try these searches. Hope this helps. Dolores 'TwoWolvesDancing' (Cobb) Phifer aka Sparkle "Those who do not look upon themselves as a link connecting the past with the future do not perform their duty to the world" Daniel Webster ----- Original Message ----- From: <KRobertsInCA@aol.com> To: <CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] No Indians in KY / Shawnees, Miquons, Susquehannas, Sus... > I saw that you all mentioned Dragging Canoe. I have an outline that was > given to me that states Dragging Canoe is in my family line. This information > is sketchy at best as I don't know where it came from and is largely, for what > I can tell, undocumented. It has just been passed down through other family > researchers. However, does anyone have any stories of Sarah Quarters ( > Canoot )? According to a Guion Miller Roll application filled out by one of the > children of my 3rd great grandfather, it states that Sarah Quarters ( Canoot ) was > a grandparent to John Thomas Brown, my 3rd Great Grandfather. Can anyone > guide me to any articles or print information on her ? I tried a google search > but couldn't really find much. > Thanks a bunch, > Kevin in California

Kevin... make sure you use quotes... it really helps. Also check Carpenter... this was also one of his surnames that followed... remember that hi father was aka Little Carpenter. Canoe was one of the biggies. And, I have heard that Brown was one of his descendents. Sarah Quarters Canoot-or Canoe ... was it? does anyone have any information about the name Canoot, was there a Sarah Canoot ,? when and where was she born, who was her Parents/ Helen . ... www.jenforum.net/canoot/messages/1.html - 14k - Supplemental Result - http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006- 04,GGLG:en&q=%22Sarah+Quarters%22 http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Sarah+Quarters%22,+brown&hl=en&lr=&rls=GGL G,GGLG:2006-04,GGLG:en&filter=0 Try these searches. Hope this helps. Dolores 'TwoWolvesDancing' (Cobb) Phifer aka Sparkle "Those who do not look upon themselves as a link connecting the past with the future do not perform their duty to the world" Daniel Webster ----- Original Message ----- From: <KRobertsInCA@aol.com> To: <CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] No Indians in KY / Shawnees, Miquons, Susquehannas, Sus... > I saw that you all mentioned Dragging Canoe. I have an outline that was > given to me that states Dragging Canoe is in my family line. This information > is sketchy at best as I don't know where it came from and is largely, for what > I can tell, undocumented. It has just been passed down through other family > researchers. However, does anyone have any stories of Sarah Quarters ( > Canoot )? According to a Guion Miller Roll application filled out by one of the > children of my 3rd great grandfather, it states that Sarah Quarters ( Canoot ) was > a grandparent to John Thomas Brown, my 3rd Great Grandfather. Can anyone > guide me to any articles or print information on her ? I tried a google search > but couldn't really find much. > Thanks a bunch, > Kevin in California

Hi Joyce... any time. This is nothing new... keep in mind...and try to remember that in the old Cherokee ways... that the children belong to the mother's Clan. I am Chickamauga Cherokee Wolf Clan because of my mother's mother's Clan. Talk to your elders and old family members and beg them to share the old family names and stories... including animal favorites and nicknames that ran in the family. Traditionally... we from the Wolf Clan side have lots more wolf stuff around than my dad's side that had more bird and bear stuff around. They had more blue around for the Blue Holly Clan side. Back in the old days when dad's grandparents were younger... it wasn't cool to be Indian and in AR... you could loose your land if they found out that one or both were Indian. Dad's mother's mother was in one of those schools to take the Indian out of her... so they sorta hid it. At least obviously. Dad and his siblings were taught beading, but not too Native looking. His grandparen! ts were Herb/Medicine doctors in secret... they grew tobacco and herbs and sold them along with their other crops. Medicine People also came from his father's father's side. I grew up taking herbs, rather than meds. Check out the old photo albums and stash and check out the backs of photos on the walls for names, dates, and places. And, don't forget the old family bibles... these are goldmines. In one cousin's old family bibles it lists dad's mother's mother as a 'heathen'. Granny Smith was the one in that school that I mentioned earlier. Another thing that I found in my own family was that the mixedblood females do not have hardly anything recorded for them. Now that may not seem too odd... but for a family that can go back to Kent England in the 1200s... then having a few in between the Christian ones now seems odd... especially when you put the story with them that they were Indian. Just something to think about. Some people just appear out of no where. Where ! they given a Christian name and not recorded anywhere? Makes you wond er. And, sign on to the surname lists at the big genealogy sites... they are free. Hope this helps. Gotta run and start dinner. Dolores 'TwoWolvesDancing' (Cobb) Phifer aka Sparkle "Those who do not look upon themselves as a link connecting the past with the future do not perform their duty to the world" Daniel Webster ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lindsey Avery" <anathema_studio@hotmail.com> To: <CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] No Indians in KY / Shawnees, Miquons, Susquehannas, Susquehannocks / Dragging Canoe - a bit of history > Hey Two Wolves Dancing. Not to cut in on your conversation with Joyce, but > that was really facinating information. What advice do you have for others > researching their Indian Ancestory?

siyo the stories are the teaching tools of our ancestors bp ----- Original Message ----- From: "shayne christen" <shayne777@msn.com> To: <CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle]Glooscap Grants Three Wishes - Algonquin > That was GREAT...........I don't know much......but....I do know that road > is hard......and smart enough not to peak until i'm spose to.... just > giggled my behind off....I love this kinda learnin..... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Blue Panther > Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 5:40 PM > To: CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [Cherokee Circle]Glooscap Grants Three Wishes - Algonquin > > Glooscap Grants Three Wishes - Algonquin > > Even the great Glooscap can behave like a trickster, especially when > people > ask him for the frivolous. > > When men had heard that Glooscap, the lord of men and beasts, would grant > a > wish to anyone who could come to him, three Indians resolved to attempt > the > journey. One was a Maliseet from St. John, and the other two were > Penobscots > from Old Town. The path was long and the way hard, and they suffered much > during the seven years that it took them. But while they were still three > months' journey from his home, they heard the barking of his dogs, and as > they drew nearer day by day, the noise was louder. And so after great > trials, they found him, and he made them welcome and entertained them. > > Before they went, he asked them what they wanted. And the eldest, an > honest, > simple man with no standing at home because he was a bad hunter, said he > wanted to be a master at catching and killing game. Then Glooscap gave him > a > flute, or magic pipe, which pleases every ear and has the power of > persuading every animal to follow him who plays it. The man thanked the > lord > and left. > > The second Indian, on being asked what he would have, replied, "the love > of > many women." And when Glooscap asked how many, he said, "I don't care how > many, just so there are enough and more than enough." The god seemed > displeased to hear but, smiling, gave the man a bag which was tightly tied > and told him not to open it until he reached home. So the second Indian > thanked the lord and left. > > The third Indian was a gay and handsome but foolish young fellow whose > whole > heart was set on making people laugh. When asked what he chiefly wanted, > he > said he would like to be able to make a certain quaint and marvelous > sound, > like breaking wind or belching, which was frequently heard in those > primitive times among all the Wabanaki. The effect of this noise is such > that they who hear it always burst out laughing. And to him Glooscap was > also affable, securing from the woods a certain magic root which, when > eaten, would create the miracle the young man sought. But Glooscap warned > him not to touch the root until he got home. Elated, the man thanked the > lord and left. > > It had taken the three Indians seven years to get there, but seven days > were > all they needed to return home. Yet only one of the men ever saw his lodge > again. This was the hunter, who trudged through the woods with his pipe in > his pocket and peace in his heart, happy to know that as long as lived he > would always have venison in his larder. > > But the man who loved women, yet had never even won a wife, was anxious to > know whether Glooscap's magic would work. He hadn't gone very far into the > woods before he opened the bag. And there flew out by the hundreds, little > white doves swarming about him, beautiful girls with black burning eyes > and > flowing hair. Wild with passion, they threw their arms around him and > kissed > him as he responded to their embraces. But they crowded thicker and > thicker, > wilder and more passionate. He asked them to give him air, but they would > not, and he tried to escape, but he could not; and so, panting, crying for > breath, he smothered. And those who came that way found him dead, but what > became of the girls no man knows. > > Now, the third Indian went merrily along the path when all at once it > flashed on his mind that Glooscap had given him a present. And without the > least though of Glooscap's warning, he drew out the root and ate it. > Scarcely had he done this before he realized that he had the power of > uttering the weird and mystic sound to perfection. It rang over the hills > and woke the distant echoes until it was answered by a solemn owl, and the > young man felt that it was indeed wonderful. So he walked on gayly, > trumpeting as he went, happy as a bird. > > But by and by he began to feel weary of his performance. Seeing a deer, he > drew an arrow, stole closer, and was just about to shoot when in spite of > himself the wild, unearthly sound broke forth like a demon's warble. The > deer bound away, and the young man was cursed. By the time he reached Old > Town half dead with hunger, he was not much to laugh over, though at first > the Indians did chuckle, which cheered him up a little. But as the days > went > on they wearied of his joke and began to avoid him. His unpopularity made > him feel that his life was a burden, and he went into the woods and killed > himself. > >>From a legend reported in 1884 by Charles G. Leland > > Reposted with Permission from Brother to Horse > >>From the Archives of Blue Panther Keeper of Stories. > > > > ==== CHEROKEE Mailing List ==== > <<>OPEN forum to all Cherokee topics - except Genealogy<>> > <>Culture-History-Language-Folk lore and Truths<> > Good Manners & Language is required to be on the list > ALL the links you will need to sub and unsub or contact listowner below > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CHEROKEE.html > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashxGet more from the Web. FREE MSN > Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com > > > ==== CHEROKEE Mailing List ==== > <<>OPEN forum to all Cherokee topics - except Genealogy<>> > <>Culture-History-Language-Folk lore and Truths<> > Good Manners & Language is required to be on the list > ALL the links you will need to sub and unsub or contact listowner below > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CHEROKEE.html > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > >

Glooscap Grants Three Wishes - Algonquin Even the great Glooscap can behave like a trickster, especially when people ask him for the frivolous. When men had heard that Glooscap, the lord of men and beasts, would grant a wish to anyone who could come to him, three Indians resolved to attempt the journey. One was a Maliseet from St. John, and the other two were Penobscots from Old Town. The path was long and the way hard, and they suffered much during the seven years that it took them. But while they were still three months' journey from his home, they heard the barking of his dogs, and as they drew nearer day by day, the noise was louder. And so after great trials, they found him, and he made them welcome and entertained them. Before they went, he asked them what they wanted. And the eldest, an honest, simple man with no standing at home because he was a bad hunter, said he wanted to be a master at catching and killing game. Then Glooscap gave him a flute, or magic pipe, which pleases every ear and has the power of persuading every animal to follow him who plays it. The man thanked the lord and left. The second Indian, on being asked what he would have, replied, "the love of many women." And when Glooscap asked how many, he said, "I don't care how many, just so there are enough and more than enough." The god seemed displeased to hear but, smiling, gave the man a bag which was tightly tied and told him not to open it until he reached home. So the second Indian thanked the lord and left. The third Indian was a gay and handsome but foolish young fellow whose whole heart was set on making people laugh. When asked what he chiefly wanted, he said he would like to be able to make a certain quaint and marvelous sound, like breaking wind or belching, which was frequently heard in those primitive times among all the Wabanaki. The effect of this noise is such that they who hear it always burst out laughing. And to him Glooscap was also affable, securing from the woods a certain magic root which, when eaten, would create the miracle the young man sought. But Glooscap warned him not to touch the root until he got home. Elated, the man thanked the lord and left. It had taken the three Indians seven years to get there, but seven days were all they needed to return home. Yet only one of the men ever saw his lodge again. This was the hunter, who trudged through the woods with his pipe in his pocket and peace in his heart, happy to know that as long as lived he would always have venison in his larder. But the man who loved women, yet had never even won a wife, was anxious to know whether Glooscap's magic would work. He hadn't gone very far into the woods before he opened the bag. And there flew out by the hundreds, little white doves swarming about him, beautiful girls with black burning eyes and flowing hair. Wild with passion, they threw their arms around him and kissed him as he responded to their embraces. But they crowded thicker and thicker, wilder and more passionate. He asked them to give him air, but they would not, and he tried to escape, but he could not; and so, panting, crying for breath, he smothered. And those who came that way found him dead, but what became of the girls no man knows. Now, the third Indian went merrily along the path when all at once it flashed on his mind that Glooscap had given him a present. And without the least though of Glooscap's warning, he drew out the root and ate it. Scarcely had he done this before he realized that he had the power of uttering the weird and mystic sound to perfection. It rang over the hills and woke the distant echoes until it was answered by a solemn owl, and the young man felt that it was indeed wonderful. So he walked on gayly, trumpeting as he went, happy as a bird. But by and by he began to feel weary of his performance. Seeing a deer, he drew an arrow, stole closer, and was just about to shoot when in spite of himself the wild, unearthly sound broke forth like a demon's warble. The deer bound away, and the young man was cursed. By the time he reached Old Town half dead with hunger, he was not much to laugh over, though at first the Indians did chuckle, which cheered him up a little. But as the days went on they wearied of his joke and began to avoid him. His unpopularity made him feel that his life was a burden, and he went into the woods and killed himself. From a legend reported in 1884 by Charles G. Leland Reposted with Permission from Brother to Horse From the Archives of Blue Panther Keeper of Stories.

Hey Two Wolves Dancing. Not to cut in on your conversation with Joyce, but that was really facinating information. What advice do you have for others researching their Indian Ancestory? ----Original Message Follows---- From: "TwoWolvesDancing" <twowolvesdancing@comcast.net> Reply-To: CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com To: CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] No Indians in KY / Shawnees, Miquons, Susquehannas, Susquehannocks / Dragging Canoe - a bit of history Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:02:49 -0500 Hi Joyce. Thanks. A bit of history first to connect everything... I have spent most of my lifetime working seriously on my family tree and started to work on dad's side back in '86. Since I come out of Oconostota's line on mom's side. This is were I get my Wolf Clan from. Over the years I have met quite a few of Dragging Canoe's descendents and learned from them as well. Some research and historical records report that Dragging Canoe is Oconostota's nephew... and that sorta fits my family's story that says that Oconostota's father was called "Little Owl". Little Owl is what we know him as and he may have a other names that I didn't write down or that they forgotten over time. White Owl Raven married Nancy Moytoy and were said to be Attakullakulla's parents. This is how White Owl Raven came into the Cherokee Nation. Little Owl is supposed to be kin of White Owl Raven, the Algonquin/Shawnee Medicine Man. Now, being that Dragging Canoe's father is Attakullakulla and ! he was supposed to be originally out of the Algonquin/Shawnee/Napuchee (old ones from Grandfather Mountain aka Lookout Mtn) area where he was taken on a raid. Some say that his father only took back one of his own in that raid. Interestingly enough... Dragging Canoe was said to have done the same thing with one of his children by one of his many women. I spell the ancient ones of Grandfather Mountain as Napuchee... because that is the way that I believed that I heard it way back then. Now, if one of Dragging Canoe's parents were in fact one of the Algonquin/Shawnee/Napuchees out of Grandfather Mountain and they were medicine people... then that makes sense since he was cured of Smallpox and bore the pockmarks all his life. Now, one of his kin was the Smallpox Conjurer of Settico. And this supports that Smallpox could be cured back then and we (Indians) knew the cure. I mentioned all of this to show the connection with Dragging Canoe and the Algonquins and Shawnees wh! o there at the Daniel Boone getting KY gathering. Dragging Canoe was a War Chief and was dead against this sale in the first place. So, he got his angst in when he passed along the curse. I bet he was smiling and said to himself... that'll fix ya for being greedy and taking our ancestral hunting grounds. It did because the settlers had a bad time of it there and like many left for greener pastures elsewhere. You have been posting for quite a while.. You will find reports that Dragging Canoe spoke the curse, he did not invent the curse... he was just passing on the curse in a warning. My guess is that this happened around 1775... http://www.scott.k12.va.us/history/priorto.html - "Treaty of Watauga"- (3/17/75) at Sycamore Shoals, Col. Richard Henderson, Daniel Boone, and over 1200 Cherokees meet to negotiate the purchase of a vast area of land in Kentucky. The decision to sell the land was not his, he like the others had to go along with it. Shortly after this, Dragging Canoe broke away in 1776 from the Cherokees and formed the Chickamauga Cherokees... and so did Oconostota. Dragging Canoe was a Red Chief aka War Chief... and so was Oconostota, although Oconostota was also a White Chief aka Peace Chief earlier under Attakullakulla. Some say that Oconostota died in 1778, while others say that he died in 1805. Boone was said to have traveled up and down through these lands here... starting here in PA where he was born and grew up. They say that he moved to NC when he was about 18. After that he started to explore the country and in 1769 he set off with 5 others to explore the regions of KY. Remember that way back when... PA was so big that it encompassed parts of MD and KY. Pennsylvania was known back then as Pennsyltucky. And, also back then it was supposed to be parceled out for a 14th state for the Miquons/Susquehannocks.and other Indians. And that added wood to the fire as well. I vaguely remember seeing Will Emory Jr's name in passing while doing Cherokee History research... so I did a google search to see what goes. Now I know why I remember him. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLG%2CGGLG%3A2006-04%2CGGLG%3Aen&q=%22William+Emory%22%2C+%22daniel+boone%22 Everything eventually does seem to make more sense once you start to fit all of the pieces together... like Will Emory Jr being married Mary Grant, daughter of Ludwig Grant. And Ludwig Grant.knew Attakullakulla. And, Emory also hung with the Shawnees. And, Ludwig Grant was said to have been one of the ones that convinced Attakullakulla along with 6 other young chiefs to visit England with Cumming... and so was came full circle to see how they all connected. Hope it helped. Dolores 'TwoWolvesDancing' Cobb Phifer aka Sparkle "Those who do not look upon themselves as a link connecting the past with the future do not perform their duty to the world" Daniel Webster ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce G. Reece" <bjreece@bellsouth.net> To: <CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] No Indians in KY / Shawnees, Miquons, Susquehannas, Susquehannocks > Delores > > THANK you so very much for a good post. It is few of our NA who so choose > to enlighten us about the old ways and what you have learned from the old > ones. Many of us researchers have to rely ONLY on what we can draw from > certain resources and just wonder about the other half of the story. It > takes some folks quite a while to realize that there is always more than one > side to every door and every issue. > > Just one question though. Would Dragging Canoe have been the leader to tell > Daniel Boone he could 'have' the land at Boonesborouh? If so it would > explain some things to me in my research. You see, William Emory Jr is > documented as having 2 encounters with Boone in KY. He is also known as > Will or Capt Will. Capt Will was born 1744 and resided in the Overhills > until at least 1762 when the first enounter is recorded with Boone. The > second is recorded in 1772. > > When was Dragging Canoe supposed to have made this decision? He was a War > Chief? Correct? > > Joyce Gaston Reece > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "TwoWolvesDancing" <twowolvesdancing@comcast.net> > To: <CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 2:49 PM > Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] No Indians in KY / Shawnees, Miquons, > Susquehannas, Susquehannocks 'Siyo. I haven't posted much lately, but felt to here... Cherokees in the very early days used KY as only for Hunting Grounds. They knew that KY was cursed. That is why Dragging Canoe had no problem giving KY to Daniel Boone and company... but told tem that they could have it. And, that this land was a"dark and bloody land" and that "it had a dark cloud over it". In my research and listening to some of the old ones that I learned that the curse came from the original peoples in that land that were merciless and bloody killers who were also cannibalistic in nature and much blood was shed on this land. That's why the Cherokees did not live there for too long of a period, but only used it for hunting. The Shawnees and Miquon/Minqua (the English called them Susquehanna because they lived along the Susquehanna River in PA, MD, and VA) The Shawnees and Miquons were their protectors. You will often find the Shawnees protecting their Cherokees) borders in exchange for protection. The Miquons protected any where... not just the border. Miquons were very tall (giants) warriors who came to fight, prepared to die. Miquon and Minqua and other variations of it's spelling along with Susquehanna and Susquehannocks and it's other variations of spelling, including Sasquahanna). Some called them Sasquatch because of this spelling. Some of my mom's side Cherokees came out of the north hills of NC and Wolf Town NC they moved into the lower part of KY. They only stayed a few generations before moving more north into MD. So, there were plenty of Indians in KY back in the early days. To set the record straight... Dragging Canoe did not curse KY before giving it to the whites... he was probably laughing to himself saying something like "if those stupid people want KY they can have it... we surely don't want it knowing what we have known for many, many generations." Cherokees did not curse for they knew the way/tradition that what goes around comes around... now cursing could come from individuals, but not in general. TN has been going out of their way to destroy any remains of the old Indian places and artifacts. They have destroyed mounds and old villages, covered up these places and old burial grounds with housing developments and business. Sitigo/Citigo/Settico is a prime example. One business man just covered the burial place with gravel just in case someone wants to gather the bones there on his place. One of the builders leveled an entire mound over night so that no one had time to get an injunction to stop him. Now that greed with one day come up and bite him in the you-know-what... if it hadn't already. Just some things that I have learned from Cherokee elders and historians as well as some Miquons. Hope this helps. Dolores 'TwoWolvesDancing' Phifer aka Sparkle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce G. Reece" <bjreece@bellsouth.net> To: <CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] No Indians in KY There were NA in Kentucky....they just weren't Cherokee...Shawnee perhaps with others in their midst. It isn't assumed. Cherokee research shows no villages in what is now KY. I might suggest you read Mr. Worthy's "Chronicles of Border Warfare". It was written in 1830 and is reproduced in the original print. It may open the eyes of all NA researchers who tend to think that only the NA were abused. Unfortunately, it went both ways. Joyce Gaston Reece ==== CHEROKEE Mailing List ==== <<>OPEN forum to all Cherokee topics - except Genealogy<>> <>Culture-History-Language-Folk lore and Truths<> Good Manners & Language is required to be on the list ALL the links you will need to sub and unsub or contact listowner below http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CHEROKEE.html ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429

That was GREAT...........I don't know much......but....I do know that road is hard......and smart enough not to peak until i'm spose to.... just giggled my behind off....I love this kinda learnin..... ----- Original Message ----- From: Blue Panther Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 5:40 PM To: CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [Cherokee Circle]Glooscap Grants Three Wishes - Algonquin Glooscap Grants Three Wishes - Algonquin Even the great Glooscap can behave like a trickster, especially when people ask him for the frivolous. When men had heard that Glooscap, the lord of men and beasts, would grant a wish to anyone who could come to him, three Indians resolved to attempt the journey. One was a Maliseet from St. John, and the other two were Penobscots from Old Town. The path was long and the way hard, and they suffered much during the seven years that it took them. But while they were still three months' journey from his home, they heard the barking of his dogs, and as they drew nearer day by day, the noise was louder. And so after great trials, they found him, and he made them welcome and entertained them. Before they went, he asked them what they wanted. And the eldest, an honest, simple man with no standing at home because he was a bad hunter, said he wanted to be a master at catching and killing game. Then Glooscap gave him a flute, or magic pipe, which pleases every ear and has the power of persuading every animal to follow him who plays it. The man thanked the lord and left. The second Indian, on being asked what he would have, replied, "the love of many women." And when Glooscap asked how many, he said, "I don't care how many, just so there are enough and more than enough." The god seemed displeased to hear but, smiling, gave the man a bag which was tightly tied and told him not to open it until he reached home. So the second Indian thanked the lord and left. The third Indian was a gay and handsome but foolish young fellow whose whole heart was set on making people laugh. When asked what he chiefly wanted, he said he would like to be able to make a certain quaint and marvelous sound, like breaking wind or belching, which was frequently heard in those primitive times among all the Wabanaki. The effect of this noise is such that they who hear it always burst out laughing. And to him Glooscap was also affable, securing from the woods a certain magic root which, when eaten, would create the miracle the young man sought. But Glooscap warned him not to touch the root until he got home. Elated, the man thanked the lord and left. It had taken the three Indians seven years to get there, but seven days were all they needed to return home. Yet only one of the men ever saw his lodge again. This was the hunter, who trudged through the woods with his pipe in his pocket and peace in his heart, happy to know that as long as lived he would always have venison in his larder. But the man who loved women, yet had never even won a wife, was anxious to know whether Glooscap's magic would work. He hadn't gone very far into the woods before he opened the bag. And there flew out by the hundreds, little white doves swarming about him, beautiful girls with black burning eyes and flowing hair. Wild with passion, they threw their arms around him and kissed him as he responded to their embraces. But they crowded thicker and thicker, wilder and more passionate. He asked them to give him air, but they would not, and he tried to escape, but he could not; and so, panting, crying for breath, he smothered. And those who came that way found him dead, but what became of the girls no man knows. Now, the third Indian went merrily along the path when all at once it flashed on his mind that Glooscap had given him a present. And without the least though of Glooscap's warning, he drew out the root and ate it. Scarcely had he done this before he realized that he had the power of uttering the weird and mystic sound to perfection. It rang over the hills and woke the distant echoes until it was answered by a solemn owl, and the young man felt that it was indeed wonderful. So he walked on gayly, trumpeting as he went, happy as a bird. But by and by he began to feel weary of his performance. Seeing a deer, he drew an arrow, stole closer, and was just about to shoot when in spite of himself the wild, unearthly sound broke forth like a demon's warble. The deer bound away, and the young man was cursed. By the time he reached Old Town half dead with hunger, he was not much to laugh over, though at first the Indians did chuckle, which cheered him up a little. But as the days went on they wearied of his joke and began to avoid him. His unpopularity made him feel that his life was a burden, and he went into the woods and killed himself. >From a legend reported in 1884 by Charles G. Leland Reposted with Permission from Brother to Horse >From the Archives of Blue Panther Keeper of Stories. ==== CHEROKEE Mailing List ==== <<>OPEN forum to all Cherokee topics - except Genealogy<>> <>Culture-History-Language-Folk lore and Truths<> Good Manners & Language is required to be on the list ALL the links you will need to sub and unsub or contact listowner below http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CHEROKEE.html ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashxGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

I saw that you all mentioned Dragging Canoe. I have an outline that was given to me that states Dragging Canoe is in my family line. This information is sketchy at best as I don't know where it came from and is largely, for what I can tell, undocumented. It has just been passed down through other family researchers. However, does anyone have any stories of Sarah Quarters ( Canoot )? According to a Guion Miller Roll application filled out by one of the children of my 3rd great grandfather, it states that Sarah Quarters ( Canoot ) was a grandparent to John Thomas Brown, my 3rd Great Grandfather. Can anyone guide me to any articles or print information on her ? I tried a google search but couldn't really find much. Thanks a bunch, Kevin in California

'Siyo Joyce. I sure am... probably posted on most, if not all of them. I am a COBB by dad. So, what COBB doe you hale from? I am out of the Ambrose COBBS of Kent England and VA line. And, Ambrose's mother - Angelica (HUNT) COBBS' brother was the Right Rev. Robert HUNT... first rector of Jamestown VA. He baptized Pocahontas and the COBBS and elated families became friends with Pocahontas and other Powhatans and that friendship protected our family among the Indians of both Jamestown and Williamsburg... where Ambrose ended up settling. Have you done a google search on "Charles Reece" and "Charles Reese" and "Charles Hunter"... must use quotes. Then try under "Hunter Reece" and "Hunter Reese". My soon-to-be-ex stole my PC with all of my family tree research on it to be mean so I can't give you what me and this Charles/Hunter Reece/Reese descendent sent me. What makes this so complicated is that she comes through the surname of HUNTER because some of them preferred the HUNTER name instead of the Christian surname of Reece/Reese. Check the Reece, Reese, and Hunter lists to see if I posted her info on them... I may have done that years back. I met her back in 2001 and we started helping each other out. Look for my name. We connect through Oconostota... me through one wife and she through another. Back to making dinner. Dolores 'TwoWolvesDancing' (Cobb) Phifer aka Sparkle "Those who do not look upon themselves as a link connecting the past with the future do not perform their duty to the world" Daniel Webster ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce G. Reece" <bjreece@bellsouth.net> To: <CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 6:25 PM Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] No Indians in KY / Shawnees, Miquons, Susquehannas, Susquehannocks > I wish we knew. I'm aware of Charles, Susannah and the other Reeces > involved in the Chickamauga area but got no idea which line of Reece's they > are. Research is still being worked on as James, b 1832 still has no > traceable father. I haven't found anyone yet who can give me the lineage of > Charles Reece and I haven't done a lot of research on it. I tend to spread > myself too thin. > Aren't you on the Cobb list? > Enjoy your tea. Pine needles have the properties of turpentine, which has > long been a home remedy for sore throat and congestion. Joyce Gaston Reece

Sugar or Honey usually. Black pepper and sugar or honey also. Joyce Gaston Reece ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pestana, Sherry" <PestanS@sutterhealth.org> To: <CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 6:45 PM Subject: RE: [Cherokee Circle] No Indians in KY / Shawnees, Miquons, Susquehannas, Susquehannocks > Joyce, do you know what the turpentine was mixed with to do your throat > with? My dad use to swab my throat with that but I don't remember what > he mixed it with or the portions of each. I sure gets rid of a sore > throat quick.

I wish we knew. I'm aware of Charles, Susannah and the other Reeces involved in the Chickamauga area but got no idea which line of Reece's they are. Research is still being worked on as James, b 1832 still has no traceable father. I haven't found anyone yet who can give me the lineage of Charles Reece and I haven't done a lot of research on it. I tend to spread myself too thin. Aren't you on the Cobb list? Enjoy your tea. Pine needles have the properties of turpentine, which has long been a home remedy for sore throat and congestion. Joyce Gaston Reece ----- Original Message ----- From: "TwoWolvesDancing" <twowolvesdancing@comcast.net> To: <CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 5:16 PM Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] No Indians in KY / Shawnees, Miquons, Susquehannas, Susquehannocks > 'Siyo Joyce... now this is the last until I get my Pine Needle Tea. > <smile>. > > REECE... is that Cherokee REECE? As in Susannah REECE/REESE who married > OOWatie aka David Watie and they were the parents of Elias "Buck" Boudinot > and Stand Watie? > > I know someone out of Susannah (REECE/REESE) Watie's brother - one of his > names is 'Bear Who Sleeps at Night' and he is also known as Hunter > REECE/REESE... Hunter, and also Charles REECE/REESE. I lost touch with > her... the storms down south. > > Just checking. > >

Thank you so much. I may have been around for a long time but that certainly doesn't mean I'm unwilling to learn more so I highly appreciate your taking the time to post this information One small correction tho. William Emory (SR) is the one who married Mary Grant the dtr of Ludovic and Eugihooti. Will Jr was their eldest child. There is a stong verbal history that says that Will had both Creek and Cherokee children and we KNOW he ran with the Shawnee. I agree that there was a stong connection between Attakullakulla and those you mention. Joyce Gaston Reece ----- Original Message ----- From: "TwoWolvesDancing" <twowolvesdancing@comcast.net> To: <CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 4:02 PM Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] No Indians in KY / Shawnees, Miquons, Susquehannas, Susquehannocks / Dragging Canoe - a bit of history >

I live in Somerset, KY. It is about 40 minutes from London. About 20 from Wayne county. My Shelton and Williams were in London for a while. Whitley county isn't that far either. Sherry -----Original Message----- From: TwoWolvesDancing [mailto:twowolvesdancing@comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 5:01 PM To: CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] No Indians in KY / Shawnees, Miquons, Susquehannas, Susquehannocks / KY 'Siyo Sherry. Hey, don't get me wrong here... I love Kentucky to visit and it is beautiful with its rolling hills. I have ancestors who lived and died there and still have very distant kin living there today. My kin lived not too far from what is now called Daniel Boone Forest there in London KY. My kin is mostly from Whitley, Wayne, and Knox counties... on the southern end near TN. If you met a RYAN... they are probably related to me and they are out of the Cherokee side coming from Oconostota. Well, the very tall Miquons hung out in KY for a while... and so did the somewhat shorter Shawnees. Shawnees were generally taller then the Cherokees and shorter then the Miquons. Me being only 5'4"... obviously take after mom's shortness, but looks come from dad's side. Dad took after his mom's side... the very tall ones and dad's pop was way, way short and took after his short Cherokee side. Go figure. Half of us 7 are on the shorter side and the other side approach 6'... and half are darker than the other half... like mom and dad. Funny how that goes. Unfortunately... it is Kentucky. I even heard it from the Indians that live there... that that was what they heard as kids and others shortly after they got there. I talked more about this in another posting... check it out. Hopefully this helps some too. Dolores 'TwoWolvesDancing' (Cobb) Phifer aka Sparkle "Those who do not look upon themselves as a link connecting the past with the future do not perform their duty to the world" Daniel Webster ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sherry Huff" <sheree606@alltel.net> To: <CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 6:13 PM Subject: RE: [Cherokee Circle] No Indians in KY / Shawnees, Miquons, Susquehannas, Susquehannocks > Lol that explains my brother at 6 foot 8. lol Aside from that, > living in Kentucky (especially the mountains of Kentucky) is very > rough living. All too often people move into the area(s) and they do > not understand the way of life here. Is Kentucky cursed ( I just > thought it was me that was cursed and not the entire state)? I don't > think so. Kentucky is very beautiful even if you have to look for that beauty at times. > > Sherry > > -----Original Message----- > From: TwoWolvesDancing [mailto:twowolvesdancing@comcast.net] > Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 2:50 PM > To: CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] No Indians in KY / Shawnees, Miquons, > Susquehannas, Susquehannocks > > > 'Siyo. I haven't posted much lately, but felt to here... Cherokees in > the very early days used KY as only for Hunting Grounds. They knew > that KY was cursed. That is why Dragging Canoe had no problem giving > KY to Daniel Boone and company... but told tem that they could have > it. And, that this land was a"dark and bloody land" and that "it had a > dark cloud over it". In my research and listening to some of the old > ones that I learned that the curse came from the original peoples in > that land that were merciless and bloody killers who were also > cannibalistic in nature and much blood was shed on this land. That's > why the Cherokees did not live there for too long of a period, but > only used it for hunting. The Shawnees and Miquon/Minqua (the English > called them Susquehanna because they lived along the Susquehanna River > in PA, MD, and VA) The Shawnees and Miquons were their protectors. > You will often find the Shawnees protecting their > Cherokees) borders in exchange for protection. The Miquons protected > any where... not just the border. Miquons were very tall (giants) > warriors who came to fight, prepared to die. Miquon and Minqua and > other variations of it's spelling along with Susquehanna and > Susquehannacks and it's other variations of spelling, including > Sasquahanna). Some called them Sasquatch because of this spelling. > Some of my mom's side Cherokees came out of the north hills of NC and > Wolf Town NC they moved into the lower part of KY. They only stayed a > few generations before moving more north into MD. > > So, there were plenty of Indians in KY back in the early days. To set > the record straight... Dragging Canoe did not curse KY before giving > it to the whites... he was probably laughing to himself saying > something like "if those stupid people want KY they can have it... we > surely don't want it knowing what we have known for many, many > generations." Cherokees did not curse for they knew the way/tradition > that what goes around comes around... now cursing could come from > individuals, but not in general. > > TN has been going out of their way to destroy any remains of the old > Indian places and artifacts. They have destroyed mounds and old > villages, covered up these places and old burial grounds with housing > developments and business. Sitigo/Citigo/Settico is a prime example. > One business man just covered the burial place with gravel just in > case someone wants to gather the bones there on his place. One of the > builders leveled an entire mound over night so that no one had time to > get an injunction to stop him. Now that greed with one day come up > and bite him in the you-know-what... if it hadn't already. > > Just some things that I have learned from Cherokee elders and > historians as well as some Miquons. > > Hope this helps. > > Dolores 'TwoWolvesDancing' Phifer > aka Sparkle > > "Those who do not look upon themselves as a link > connecting the past with the future do not perform > their duty to the world" Daniel Webster ==== CHEROKEE Mailing List ==== <<>OPEN forum to all Cherokee topics - except Genealogy<>> <>Culture-History-Language-Folk lore and Truths<> Good Manners & Language is required to be on the list ALL the links you will need to sub and unsub or contact listowner below http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CHEROKEE.html ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

have fun on your trip out to madison co. And let me know if your able to find that film. And thanks for everything. Likewise, if you come across anything, or need any help, drop me a line. ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Sherry Huff" <sheree606@alltel.net> Reply-To: CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com To: CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [Cherokee Circle] No Indians in KY / Shawnees, Miquons, Susquehannas, Susquehannocks Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 04:05:48 -0500 Yes. I inquired about William Duckworth Shelton (Duck Franklin). The Madison County, NC website mentions him so like you said it must be pretty much true. I am planning a trip to Madison County in the next couple of weeks to go see the graves of those Shelton's that were massacred during the Civil War. A movie was made about the Shelton Laurel Massacre but I can't seem to find a copy. Maybe they will have one there somewhere. My lines from Harlan county are related to the Brocks but only through marriage I think. I went to Clay County, KY last week and saw, for the first time, a part-time traffic light. LOL I couldn't help but think...now, if you need a light there at all then shouldn't it be on all the time? Stay well and if you need anything just let me know. Sherry -----Original Message----- From: Joyce G. Reece [mailto:bjreece@bellsouth.net] Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 9:08 PM To: CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] No Indians in KY / Shawnees, Miquons, Susquehannas, Susquehannocks I thought I recognized your name from somewhere Sherry...it must be the Shelton Joyce Gaston Reece ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sherry Huff" <sheree606@alltel.net> To: <CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com> ==== CHEROKEE Mailing List ==== <<>OPEN forum to all Cherokee topics - except Genealogy<>> <>Culture-History-Language-Folk lore and Truths<> Good Manners & Language is required to be on the list ALL the links you will need to sub and unsub or contact listowner below http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CHEROKEE.html ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx ==== CHEROKEE Mailing List ==== <<>OPEN forum to all Cherokee topics - except Genealogy<>> <>Culture-History-Language-Folk lore and Truths<> Good Manners & Language is required to be on the list ALL the links you will need to sub and unsub or contact listowner below http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Ethnic-Native/CHEROKEE.html ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx