Aboriginal Gods & Goddess's - Australian Note 1: It is important to remember that there were very many different, and isolated, tribes in Australia in the long ago past; therefore there are many gods/goddesses with the same function but different names, and stories, according to each tribe/clan. Note 2: "Dreamtime" refers to a mythological past for the aborigine peoples of Australia, although today, some peoples still refer & enter the "dreamtime". Alinga - Sun goddess. Anjea - Goddess who forms infants from mud and places them into the mother's uterus. Apunga - Goddess of small plants. Biame - The "Great One," or creator. Bila - The cannibal sun goddess. She provided light for the world by cooking her victims over a giant flame. Lizard Man was appalled by these acts and tried to kill her. She turned herself into a ball of fire and fled, leaving the world in darkness. He threw his boomerang at her, catching her and making her move in a slow arc across the sky. This brought light back to the world. Boaliri - The younger of the two sister goddesses that created life. The other was Waimariwi. Bunbulama - Goddess of the rain. Cunnembeille - Wife of Biame. She lives in the heavens with him and his other wife, Birrahgnooloo. Dilga - Goddess of justice. Dilga became very angry when two of her children were killed by the "cat man" and his relatives. Milk flowed from her breasts so copiously it formed a stream that reached to where the murderers lived and drowned them. It also resuscitated her children and brought them back to life. Djanggawul Sisters - Daughters of the sun, these Australian goddesses unceasingly brought forth living creatures from their endlessly pregnant bodies. Their long vulvas broke off piece by piece with these births, producing the world's first sacred artifacts. Eingana - The Australian natives call her, Mother Eingana, the world-creator, the birth mother, maker of all water, land, animals, and kangaroos. This huge snake goddess still lives, they say, in the Dreamtime, rising up occasionally to create yet more life. This primordial snake had no vagina; as her offspring grew inside her, the goddess swelled up. Eventually, tortured with the pregnancy, Eingana began to roll around and around. The god Barraiya saw her agony and speared her near the anus so that birth could take place as all creatures now give birth. She is also the death mother. They say Eingana holds a sinew of life attached to each of her creatures; when she lets it go, that life stops. If she herself should die, they say everything would cease to exist. Erathipa - A huge boulder in the shape of a pregnant woman bears this name. It is said that the souls of dead children reside within it, and that if a woman of child-bearing age walks by a soul slips from the boulder and into her womb to be reborn. Gidja - God of the moon. Gnowee - The sun goddess of an aboriginal people of southeast Australia. The legend goes that Gnowee once lived on the earth at a time when the sky was always dark and people walked around carrying torches in order to see. One day while Gnowee was out gathering yams, her baby son wandered off. She set out to search for him, carrying a huge torch, but never found him. To this day she still climbs the sky daily, carrying her torch, trying to find her son. Ingridi - A "dreamtime" goddess. Julana - Chief god of the Jumu tribe. Julunggul - Goddess of initiations. Junkgowa - An ancestor goddess who lived during the "dreamtime". She was a multiple goddess (the Junkgowa Sisters) who created the ocean, and all the fish therein. Karora - The creator, according to the Bandicoot clan of the Arandan aborigines of Australia. Lia - A water goddess. Madalait - A creator goddess. Makara, The - Seven sisters who became the constellation Pleiades. Nabudi, The - Goddesses of illness. Palpinkalare - Goddess of justice. Goddess of the evening star. Walo - The Australian aboriginals called the sun goddess by this name and said that she lived with her daughter Bara and her sister-in-law, the world mother Madalait, far to the east. Each day Walo journeyed across the sky accompanied by Bara, until one day the sun goddess realized that the reason the earth was so parched was their combined heat. She sent her daughter back to the east so that the earth could become fertile and bloom. Waramurungundi - The first woman, according to the Gunwinggu people of Australia. She was the all-creating mother of Australia; she gave birth to the earth and then fashioned all its living creatures. She then taught her creations to talk and divided each language group from the next. Wati Kutjarra - This Western Australian term means "two men" and refers to the two male ancestors of mortals who taught the people to keep in touch with Dreamtime. (Dreamtime is always present and is the source of all life.) Wawalag Sisters - The civilizers of Australia, these two mythic women wandered the continent domesticating plants into edible foodstuffs, evolving language for each territory, and naming all the land's creatures. Wuluwaid - A male rainmaker. Wuragag - The first man, and husband to Waramurungundi. Wuriupranili - This sun goddess was said to light bark into a torch, carrying the flame through the sky from east to west. At the western sea, she dipped it in the water, then used the embers to guide her under the earth to reach her eastern starting point again. The brilliant skies of dawn and dusk, it was said, came from her red-ochre body paints misting up into the sky as she powdered and beautified her body. Wurrunna - A culture hero with many folklore tales of his wanderings. Yhi - The goddess of light and creator goddess of the Karraur, an Australian aboriginal group, she lay asleep in the Dreamtime before this world's creation, in a world of bone-bare, windless mountains. Suddenly, a whistle startled the goddess. She took a deep breath and opened her eyes, flooding the world with light. The earth stirred under her warm rays. Yhi drifted down to this new land, walking north, south, east, and west. As she did, plants sprang up from her footprints. She walked the world's surface until she had stepped everywhere, until every inch was covered with green. Then the goddess sat to rest on the treeless plain. As she glanced around, she realized that the new plants could not move, and she desired to see something dance. Seeking that dancing life, she descended beneath the earth, where she found evil spirits who tried to sing her to death. But they were not as powerful as Yhi. Her warmth melted the darkness, and tiny forms began to move there. The forms turned into butterflies and bees and insects that swarmed around her in a dancing mass. She led them forth into the sunny world. But there were still caves of ice, high in the mountains, in which other beings rested. Yhi spread her light into them, one at a time. She stared into the cave's black interiors until water formed. Then she saw something move-something, and another thing, and another. Fishes and lizards swam forth. Cave after cave she freed from its darkness, and birds and animals poured forth onto the face of the earth. Soon the entire world was dancing with life. Then, in her golden voice, Yhi spoke. She told her creatures she would return to her own world. She blessed them with changing seasons and with the knowledge that when they died they would join her in the sky. Then, turning herself into a ball of light, she sank below the horizon. As she disappeared, darkness fell upon on the earth's surface. The new creatures were afraid. There was sorrow and mourning, and finally there was sleep. And, soon, there was the first dawn, for Yhi had never intended to abandon her creation. One by one the sleepy creatures woke to see light breaking in the east. A bird chorus greeted their mistress, and the lake and ocean waters that had been rising in mists, trying to reach her, sank down calmly. For eons of Dreamtime the animals lived in peace on Yhi's earth, but then a vague sadness began to fill them. They ceased to delight in what they were. She had planned never to return to earth, but she felt so sorry for her creatures that she said, "Just once. Just this once." So she slid down to the earth's surface and asked the creatures what was wrong. Wombat wanted to wiggle along the ground. Kangaroo wanted to fly. Bat wanted wings. Lizard wanted legs. Seal wanted to swim. And the confused Platypus wanted something of every other animal. And so Yhi gave them what they wanted. From the beautiful regular forms of the early creation came the strange creatures that now walk the earth. Yhi then swept herself up to the sky again. She had one other task yet to complete: the creation of woman. She had already embodied thought in male form and set him wandering the earth. But nothing - not the plants, not the insects, not the birds or beasts or fish seemed like him. He was lonely. Yhi went to him one morning as he slept near a grass tree. He slept fitfully, full of strange dreams. As he emerged from his dreaming he saw the flower stalk on the grass tree shining with sunlight. He was drawn to the tree, as were all the earth's other creatures. Reverent and astonished, they watched as the power of Yhi concentrated itself on the flower stalk. The flower stalk began to move rhythmically - to breathe. Then it-changed form, softened, became a woman. Slowly emerging into the light from which she was formed, the first woman gave her hand to the first man. Sumitted by Aussiedreamspirit Come visit us at. "Keeper of Stories". http://www.newkeeperofstories.com/

Abenaki Towns The Abnaki villages, so far as their names have been recorded, were: Aunaseconti Ammoncongan Aquadocta (?) Arosaguntacook Asnela Aucocisco Bagaduce Bécancour Calais (Passamaquoddy) Gunasquamekook (Passamaquoddy) Immarkuan (Passamaquoddy) Kennebec Ketangheanycke Lincoln Island Masherosqueck Mattawamkeag (Punobscot) Maytinacook (Penobscot) Meecombe Missiassik (Missiassik) Moratiggon (?) Moshoquen Muanbissek (?) Muscongus Negas Negusset (?) Norridgewock Norumbega Okpaak (Malecite) Olamon (Penobscot) Old Town (Penobscot) Ossaghrage Ouwerage Pasharanack Passadumkeag (Penobscot) Passamaquoddy (village?) Pauhtannc Pemaquid Penobscot Pequawket, Pocopassum Precaute Rocameca Sabino Sagadahoc Sainte Anne (Malecite) St Francis Satquin Sebaik (Passamaquoddy) Segocket Segotago Sillery Sokoki (village?) Taconnet Tobique (Malecite) Unyjaware Viger (Malecite) Wabigganus Waccogo Wewenoc (village?) Taken in part from: Handbook of American Indians, Frederick Webb Hodge, Part 1, 1907. Come visit us at. "Keeper of Stories". http://www.newkeeperofstories.com/

Abenaki Tribal Divisions Tribal divisions, The tribes included in the confederacy as noted by Maurault have already been given. In a letter sent by the Abnaki in 1721 to the governor of New England their divisions are given as follows: Narantsouuk (Norridgewock) Pentugouet (Penobscot) Narakamigou (Rocameca) Anmissoukanti (Amaseconti) Muanbissek Pegouakki (Pequawket, N. H.) Medoktek (Medoctec) Kwupahag Pesmokanti (Passamaquoddy) Arsikantegou (Arosaguntacook) Ouanwinak (Wewenoc, south edge of N. H.) The following is a full list of Abnaki tribes: Accominta Amaseconti Arosaguntacook Etchimin Malecite Missiassik Norridgewock (the Abnaki in the most limited sense) Passamaquoddy Penobscot Pequawket Rocameca Sokoki . Wewenoc The bands residing oil St Croix and St Johns Rivers. Spoke a different dialect front those to the southward, and were known collectively as Etchimin. They are now known as Passamaquoddy and Malecite. Although really a part of the Abnaki, they were frequently classed as a distinct body, while on the other hand the Pennacook tribes, although distinct front the Abnaki, were often classed with them on account of their connection daring the Indian wars and after their removal to Canada. According to Morgan they had fourteen gentes: Name Animal Name Animal Mals'-sum Wolf Ta-mä'-kwa Beaver Pis-suh' Black Wildcat Maguh-le-loo' Caribou Ah-weh'-soos Bear Kä-bäh'-seh Sturgeon Skooke Snake Moos-kwä'-suh' Muskrat Ah-lunk-soo Spotted Animal K'-che-gä-gong'-go Pigeon Hawk Meh-ko-ä' Squirrel Che-gwä'-lis Spotted Frog Koos-koo' Crane Mä-dä'-weh-soos Porcupine According to Chauvignerie their principal totems were the pigeon and the bear, while they also had the partridge, beaver, and otter totems. Taken in part from: Handbook of American Indians, Frederick Webb Hodge, Part 1, 1907. Come visit us at. "Keeper of Stories". http://www.newkeeperofstories.com/

Abenaki Indian Genealogy Abnaki, (Wâbuna'ki, from wâbun, a term associated with 'light,' 'white,' and refers to the morning and the east; a`ki 'earth,' 'land'; hence Wâbuna'ki is an inanimate singular term signifying 'eastland,' or 'morning-land,' the elements referring to animate dwellers of the east being wanting.--Jones). A name used by the English and French of the colonial period to designate an Algonquian confederacy centering in the present state of Maine, and by the Algonquian tribes to include all those of their own stock resident on the Atlantic seaboard, more particularly the "Abnaki" in the north and the Delawares in the south. More recently it has been applied also to the emigrant Oneida, Stockbridge, and Munsee about Green Bay, Wis. By the puritans they were generally called Tarrateen, a term apparently obtained from the southern New England tribes; and though that is the general conclusion of modern authorities, there is some doubt as to the aboriginal origin of this term. In later times, after the main body of the Abnaki had removed to Canada, the name was applied more especially to the Penobscot tribe. The Iroquois called them Owenunga, which seems to be merely a modification of Abnaki, or Abnaqui, the name applied by the French and used by most modern writers. The form Openango has been used more especially to designate the eastern tribes. Maurault (Hist. des Aben., 2, 1866) says: "Some English authors have called these savages Wabnoak, 'those of the east'; this is the reason they are called 'Abenaki' by some among us. This name was given them because they were toward the east with reference to the Narragansett." Taken in part from: Handbook of American Indians, Frederick Webb Hodge, Part 1, 1907. Come visit us at. "Keeper of Stories". http://www.newkeeperofstories.com/

Buffalo Field Campaign Yellowstone Bison Update from the Field May 7, 2009 ------------------------------ ------------------------------ In this issue: * Update from the Field (New Video) * BFC Needs You on the Front Lines! * Freedom to Roam: Patagonia Features Wild Buffalo * Apple Laptop Computer Needed for BFC's Media Crew * Last Words * Kill Tally ------------------------------ * Update from the Field Chaos is reigning along Yellowstone National Park's western boundary as the thumping of chopper blades and the shouts of government agents repeatedly harass wild buffalo families and all wildlife near the Madison River. Nearly 200 buffalo - including dozens of newborn calves, yearlings, and pregnant mothers - have been ruthlessly run off of their spring habitat within the Gallatin National Forest. Agents are out harassing buffalo as this Update is being written. Newborn buffalo calves and many pregnant buffalo cows have been run for miles through pockets of deep snow, barbed wire fences, thick forests laden with dead-fall, fast moving river currents, mucky wetlands, and steep, sandy bluffs. For these babies, it is a terrible and sometimes deadly introduction to the world. The new and developing muscles of these little ones cannot sustain such abuse. Today, mounted Montana Department of Livestock and Yellowstone National Park horsemen have picked up the hazing operation at Yellowstone's border, after it left Gallatin National Forest land, and are currently pushing the exhausted buffalo deep into Yellowstone National Park's interior with the assistance of the Montana Department of Livestock's helicopter. Two days ago, Buffalo Field Campaign patrols witnessed one baby buffalo unable escape the DOL agents, trying unsuccessfully to negotiate a barbed wire fence. Numerous times the baby buffalo ran into the sharp, unforgiving fence, as its worried mother waited. Frightened, the little one finally scrambled through, only to be continuously pursued by the harsh, aggressive actions of Department of Livestock agents. Yesterday and today patrols documented buffalo being hazed across the Madison River by horses and the helicopter after being forced to run for miles. The buffalo were exhausted and yesterday three little calves narrowly escaped being carried away by the river. One baby buffalo collapsed after it used it's last bit of energy to climb the steep bank. It took every ounce of restraint for our patrols not to jump in and help it out. Thankfully, the baby was able to finally climb the bank. While these horrific events take a tremendous toll on the buffalo, it is amazing to see the strength and resolve that enables them to escape. Watch BFC's video footage from this week at http://www.buffalofieldcampaign.org and please share these images with others so that more people can be made aware of what is happening. Then, please take a moment to contact President Barack Obama http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/2426/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=26453 - even if you have already done so - and continue to urge him to take immediate action to stop the harassment and slaughter of these gentle giants. All of these heavy-handed management actions have been taking place south of the Madison River. Next week, the rest of the western boundary lands, including the always cattle-free Horse Butte Peninsula, will be terrorized. May 15 marks the dreaded day where livestock interests demand that all wild bison be forced out of Montana, even though there's not a cow in sight. Your federal tax dollars are being wasted to harass buffalo and all the wildlife in this fragile ecosystem because the cattle industry doesn't want wild buffalo eating grass they claim is for their cows alone. They use the fraudulent brucellosis argument as means to scare the public into accepting that these horrific actions are necessary. Yet there's not a single cow in sight, and there's never been a documented case of wild bison transmitting the cattle-disease brucellosis back to livestock. And even if there were, neither invasive cattle nor the economic interests of Montana's cattle industry are worth this disastrous management scheme that harms America's last wild bison population, terrorizing the Yellowstone ecosystem and all of her inhabitants. As an example of wasteful government spending, all of the past week's activities have essentially been focused to cater to the interests of one small hobby rancher who won't even have cattle on his ranch until mid- to late-! June. The lives of wild buffalo must not be sacrificed for invasive cattle. Please take action now http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/2426/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=26453 and help spread the word to save the last wild herds! http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/2426/tellafriend.jsp?tell_a_friend_KEY=3835 ROAM FREE! ------------------------------ * BFC Needs You on the Front Lines! Buffalo Field Campaign is looking for volunteers to join us on the front lines now. Buffalo migration is in full swing and our shaggy friends are everywhere, keeping us busy nearly 24 hours a day. Extreme and invasive hazing operations have begun, and will likely continue throughout the rest of the month, and possibly beyond. We need you to join us on the front lines! BFC provides room, board, training, and gear; the ecosystem provides the magic and mystery. If you are interested, please contact Chris, our volunteer coordinator at [email protected] or call 406-646-0070. We are also looking for summer volunteers to help us with outreach in Yellowstone and Grand Teton National Parks. Talking to park visitors who are in the company of the buffalo we are trying to protect is a great way to raise awareness and make more friends for the buffalo. If you would like to spend some or all of your summer with BFC, please contact Chris at [email protected] or call 406-646-0070. See you in West Yellowstone in the land of the last wild buffalo! ------------------------------ Freedom to Roam: Patagonia Features Wild Buffalo Patagonia, Inc. has been a long-time supporter of Buffalo Field Campaign helping us in so many ways we could never thank them enough. Patagonia sets the example for businesses to become ecologically-minded, walking the talk for decades, championing numerous efforts around the globe that aim to protect wild places and the creatures that live there. In their most recent initiative, Freedom to Roam, Patagonia is featuring wild buffalo and the efforts of locally-based organizations to help America's last wild population recover their stolen ground. Patagonia explains, "Freedom to Roam is Patagonia's current environmental campaign. Its goal is to create, restore and protect wildways or corridors between habitats so animals can survive. Patagonia's partners in Freedom to Roam include the Freedom to Roam Coalition, which includes other companies, conservation organizations, rural activists, recreation groups, and those who live on the land." View a video clip featuring Horse Butte Neighbors of Buffalo, Buffalo Field Campaign, and our wild shaggy friends themselves: http://www.Patagonia.com/tinshed/ftr ------------------------------ * Apple Laptop Computer Needed for BFC's Media Crew BFC's media crew is looking for a good Apple/Mac laptop computer. All of our computers are currently stationary systems, and a laptop will enable us to work from other locations and consequently be more effective with communications and outreach. All donations to BFC are tax deductible and are very much appreciated! If you can help us acquire a laptop please contact Stephany at [email protected] or call us at 406-646-0070. ------------------------------ * Last Words "The hubris [of those] who believe that nature will fall apart if humans aren't there "managing" the land is unbelievable. All livestock production in the arid West has unavoidable ecological impacts-changes in nutrient cycles, changes in fire regimes, soil compaction, spread of weeds, competition with native herbivores, damage to riparian zones, dewatering rivers (for irrigation), and so forth. And the list of species endangered or jeopardized primarily or largely as a result of livestock production includes many animals ... Indeed, livestock grazing is the single greatest cause of species endangerment in the West. " ~ George Wuerthner Wildlands champion and editor of "Welfare Ranching: The Subsidized Destruction of the American West" ------------------------------ * Kill Tally AMERICAN BISON ELIMINATED from the last wild population in the U.S. 2008-2009 Total: 17 2008-2009 Slaughter: 0 2008-2009 Hunt: 1 2008-2009 Quarantine: 0 2008-2009 Shot by Agents: 1 2008-2009 Highway Mortality: 15 2007-2008 Total: 1,631 Total Since 2000: 3,698* *includes lethal government action, quarantine, hunts, highway mortalities ------------------------------ Media & Outreach Buffalo Field Campaign P.O. Box 957 West Yellowstone, MT 59758 406-646-0070 [email protected] http://www.buffalofieldcampaign.org BFC is the only group working in the field every day in defense of the last wild buffalo population in the U.S. KEEP BFC ON THE FRONTLINES WITH A TAX DEDUCTIBLE CONTRIBUTION TODAY https://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/2426/t/6876/shop/custom.jsp?donate_page_KEY=3647 Join Buffalo Field Campaign -- It's Free! http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/2426/t/6876/signUp.jsp?key=3378 Tell-a-Friend: http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/2426/tellafriend.jsp?tell_a_friend_KEY=3835 Take Action! http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/2426/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=26453 Unsubscribe http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/2426/t/7926/p/salsa/supporter/unsubscribe/public/?unsubscribe_page_KEY=42 --

Thanks for the link Dan ~ I'll check it out~! Which brings me to a question. Are there any sites or books that one would recommend on beading moc's etc the Cherokee way ? I was just at our local dinky teeny branch library and they have nothing but I was told I could order a few books to have them delivered to our library. So thought I'd ask here ~ Ang ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danm" <[email protected]> > Here is a site to check out. > http://esciencenews.com/articles/2009/01/29/new.animated.films.challenge.false.representation.native.americans.media > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 9886 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

I think Jim Landmesser's on here.........but he might have some books on that. I'll check to see if I still have his link (I need to make my wish list again & start ordering) LOL Alli ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Trout" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 12:02 PM Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] Native movies > Thanks for the link Dan ~ I'll check it out~! > Which brings me to a question. > Are there any sites or books that one would recommend on beading moc's etc > the Cherokee way ? > I was just at our local dinky teeny branch library and they have nothing > but > I was told I could order a few books to have them delivered to our > library. > So thought I'd ask here ~ > Ang > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Danm" <[email protected]> > > > >> Here is a site to check out. >> http://esciencenews.com/articles/2009/01/29/new.animated.films.challenge.false.representation.native.americans.media >> > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 9886 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > > > ======*====== > List archives > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokee > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Here is a site to check out. http://esciencenews.com/articles/2009/01/29/new.animated.films.challenge.false.representation.native.americans.media Dan M

well foward it bp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danm" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] swine flu > The Chero Med list might be a good place for this. > Dan M > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 8:11 AM > Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] swine flu > > >> Be sure to consult with your own doctor or own Homeopathic physician as >> well. Not to take anything away from Gary.....but its always best to >> follow >> medical advise from a licensed Dr. that you know as well >> >> Alli ;) >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Gary Price" <[email protected]> >>> Oscillococinum >>> Dear Marc >>> I have homeopathic clinical experience, so if anyone needs to know how >>> to >>> take these >>> remedies to make them more effective, do ask. >>> thanks. >>> Gary >> >> >> ======*====== >> List archives >> http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokee >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ======*====== > List archives > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokee > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Blue Panther,   I live in Hayes County, do you live close to me?   Two Hawk A friend saw another friend with the first tear in her eye. A friend catches the second tear and stops the third tear --- On Tue, 5/5/09, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: [Cherokee Circle] swine flu To: "Native_Village" <[email protected]>, "CHEROKEE" <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 11:44 PM I have not wanted to join in the alarmist panic attack the country has been having about the swine flu, however, below are some good home remedies that you can take to fight it if you are exposed to it. Christine Dr. Marcus Gitterle, M.D. 600 N Union Ave Christus Santa Rosa Hospital - New Braunfels New Braunfels, TX 78130 Specialties · Family Practice · Emergency Medicine After I returned from a public health meeting yesterday with community leaders and school officials in Comal County and Hays County, Heather suggested I send an update to my patients in the area, because what we are hearing privately from the CDC and Health Department is different from what you are hearing in the media. Some of you know some of this, but I will just list what facts I know. - The virus is infectious for about 2 days prior to symptom onset - Virus spreads more than 7 days after symptom onset (possibly as long as 9 days) (this is more unusual than ordinary flu) - Since it is such a novel (new) virus, there is no "herd immunity," so the "attack rate" is very high. This is the percentage of people who come down with a virus if exposed. Almost everyone who is exposed to this virus will become infected, though not all will be symptomatic. That is much higher t han seasonal flu, which averages 10-15%. The "clinical attack rate" estimation from CDC and WHO may be around 40-50%. This is the number of people who show symptoms. This is a huge number. It is hard to convey the seriousness of this to those outside of the medical fields. - The virulence (deadliness) of this virus is as bad here as in Mexico, and there are folks on ventilators here in the US, right now. This has not been in the media, but a 23 month old in Houston is fighting for his life, and a pregnant woman just south of San Antonio is fighting for her life. In Mexico, these folks might have died already, but here in the US, folks are getting Tamiflu or Relenza quickly, and we have ready access to ventilators. What this means is that within a couple of weeks, regional hospitals will likely become overwhelmed. - Some of the kids with positive cases in Comal County have had more than 70 contacts before diagnosis as a minimum figure. - There are 10-25 times more actual cases (not "possible" cases -- actual), than what is being reported in the media. The way they fudge on reporting this is that it takes 3 days to get the confirmatory nod from the CDC on a given viral culture, but based on epidemiological grounds, we know that there are more than 10 cases for each "confirmed" case right now. - During the night, we crossed the threshold for the definition of a WHO, Phase 6 global pandemic. This has not happened in any of our lifetimes so far.. We are in uncharted territory. - They are advising President Obama to declare an emergency sometime in the next 72-96 hours. This may not happen, but if it doesn't, I will be surprised. When this happens, all public gathering will be cancelled for 10 days minimum. - I suggest all of us avoid public gatherings. Outdoor activities are not as likely to lead to infection.. It is contained areas and close contact that are the biggest risk. - Tamiflu is running out. There is a national stockpile, but it will have to be carefully managed for law enforcement and first responders as it is not enough to treat the likely number of infections when this is full-blown. I don't think there is a big supply of Relenza, but I do not know those numbers. If I had to choose, I would take Relenza, as I think it gets more drug to the affected tissue than Tamiflu. - You should avoid going to the ER if you think you have been exposed or are symptomatic. ER's south of here are becoming overwhelmed today-- and I mean that -- already. It is coming in waves, but the waves are getting bigger. - It appears that this flu produces a distinctive "hoarseness" in many victims. The symptoms, in general, match other flu's; namely, sore throat, body aches, headache, cough, and fever. What is not too common in regular flu cycles is vomiting and diarrhea which seems to be associated with this, further dehydrating victims. Some have all these symptoms, while others may=2 0have only one or two. - N-Acetyl-Cysteine -- a nutritional supplement available at the health food store or Wimberley Pharmacy, has been shown to prevent or lessen the severity of influenza. I suggest 1200mg, twice a day for adults, and 600mg twice a day in kids over 12. It would be hard to get kids under 12 to take it, but you could try opening the capsules and putting it on yogurt. For 40 pounds and up, 300-600 mg twice a day, for less than 40 pounds, half that. - Oscillococinum, a homeopathic remedy, has been vindicated as quite effective in a large clinical trial in Europe, with an H1N1 variant. You can buy this at Hill Country Natural Foods, or the Wimberley Pharmacy. I will try to keep everyone posted if I have any new information. Meanwhile, don't be afraid, stay informed and try to avoid infection. The fewer people infected the easier it will be for our public officials to manage it. If any of my patients become ill, or suspect infection, call the office, do not come without calling and DO NOT go to the ER. If one member in a family is identified all would be given the Tamiflu or Relenza (that is normal course of action) if there is enough distributed to fill prescriptions. Public health stated that one family member identified or suspected to have contracted the flu it will require the whole family to be? quarantined? in their own home until enough time has passed for the remaining household to have contracted it or be considered20infecti on free ( 7 to 10 days per person). As another suggestion, if any member of the family is on routine medication- fill those prescriptions now. Have plenty fluids, Motrin, soups, etc available and make contingency plans in case your family is affected. Marc Come visit us at. "Keeper of Stories". http://www.newkeeperofstories.com/ ======*====== List archives http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokee ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I figure exactly the opposite. I figure they are making it bigger than it should be and that it is part of a ploy to scare the general population. They want people to run to the doctor and get a shot. It is not airborne so the masks are useless. Also, I always thought that the flu was digestive and intestinal.......hence causing dehydration from the loss of fluids...............not in the upper respiratory system, as they say this is. This sounds more like a sinus infection, cold or allergies caused from pollens Virginia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danm" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 8:05 AM Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] swine flu > It is really getting the headlines. > We been following it closely. > I figured they would try to down play it sooner or later so folks would not > panic. > I have had a cold for a few days, just the old sore throat and flem crap > tho. > Been out in the cold winds too much . > Dont let that bug get you. > Dan M > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: "Native_Village" <[email protected]>; "CHEROKEE" > <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:44 PM > Subject: [Cherokee Circle] swine flu > > > I have not wanted to join in the alarmist panic attack the country has been > having about the swine flu, however, below are some good home remedies that > you can take to fight it if you are exposed to it. > > > > =====================>> > > ======*====== > List archives > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=cherokee > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.19/2099 - Release Date: 05/05/09 13:07:00

Please share Gary ~I'm interested. As Marc's email said, we cannot count on the MSM to tell us the truth in whole or part ~! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Price" <[email protected]> Oscillococinum Dear Marc I have homeopathic clinical experience, so if anyone needs to know how to take these remedies to make them more effective, do ask. thanks. Gary -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 9866 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

A Warrior Cared For By Wolves - Seneca Characters ODJÚ GANOGWIOEO AMONG the Senecas there was a war chief named GANOGWIOEOn. Once, with ten men, he went on the warpath to the Cherokee country. They found the Cherokees on the watch and could do nothing. Then the chief said to his men, "I'll go alone to their village." And after dark, leaving his men in the woods, he went to the Cherokee village. In the first cabin he came to, he found an old woman and her granddaughter. They didn't see him. He crept into a little place where they kept wood. After dark the old woman said to her granddaughter, "Maybe GANOGWIOEOn is around here. I'll shut the door," and she spoke a word of warning to ODJÚ, her granddaughter. The chief heard this. After a while the girl said, "It is time to sleep." The chief heard this also and heard the girl going up the ladder to sleep above, meanwhile talking with her grandmother, who was below. The old woman fastened the door of the little wood house, with bark strings and fastened the chief in, leaving the door to the cabin unfastened. After waiting till the old woman was asleep, the chief went into the cabin. The fire had burned down to coals but he could see the ladder that the girl had climbed. He went up. The girl was not asleep and was about to scream when he said, "If you scream I'll cut off your head. The chief of this village has a daughter. If you will get her to come into the woods with you I will spare your life." ODJÚ said, "In the morning, as soon as the grass is dry, I will go to the chief's house and ask his daughter to come with me to gather wood." Threatening to come back and kill the girl if she failed to do as planned the chief left the cabin. Early the next morning, ODJÚ went to the chief's house and said to his daughter, "Come with me and gather wood." (This was the custom in those days.) The chief's daughter was willing to go and they started. As soon as they came to the forest the Seneca sprang out of his hiding place and ran toward them. ODJÚ stood still, but the chief's daughter screamed and ran toward home. GANOGWIOEOn caught her, scalped her, and then, giving a war whoop, ran away. Men rushed out of their cabins and pursued him. The Seneca saw that among the men following him there was one good runner. He hid in a ravine and when the runner came to the entrance of the ravine he shot him with an arrow and pulling off the man's scalp held it up before the people who were following. When the Seneca came to a second ravine another runner was ahead of the rest. He aimed at the man, but his bowstring broke. The pursuer saw this and rushed into the ravine. The Seneca ran swiftly, but the Cherokee overtook and closed with him. A second and a third man came, then others; they bound GANOGWIOEOn, led him to the village and summoned the people to assemble. Among the Cherokees there were two women who were looked upon as the head women of the tribe. Each woman had two snakes tattooed on her lips--the upper jaws of the snakes were on the woman's upper lip, and opposite each other, the lower jaws on the lower lip in the same way. When the woman opened her mouth, the snakes seemed to open theirs. These women said, "This is the way to torment him; tie him near a fire and burn the soles of his feet till they are blistered, then let the water out of the blisters, put kernels of corn inside the skin, and chase him with clubs till he dies." When GANOGWIOEOn's feet were blistered, the women stripped him and tied a bark rope around his waist. One old man said, "I want to hold the rope." The people stood in two lines and at the end of each line were many people. The Seneca had to run between the lines. He ran so fast that he pulled the rope out of the old man's hand, then plunging to one side, he broke through the line and ran with all his strength toward the place where he had left his men. When running he thought he was going to die, for he was naked and unarmed, far from home, and his feet were raw, but he evaded his enemies and, when night came, crept into a hollow log. In the night he heard steps on the dry leaves, and thought the Cherokees had discovered his hiding place. Whoever it was came up to the tree and said to someone who was with him, "This man is our friend." Then he called to GANOGWIOEOn, "You think that you are going to die, but you will not. We will take care of you. Stick out your feet." The chief put out his feet and right away he felt someone licking them. After a while one of the strangers said, "We have licked his feet enough. Now we must get him warm, we will go into the tree and one of us lie down on each side of him." It was very dark in the hollow log, but the man felt someone lie down on either side of him, and soon he was so warm and comfortable that he fell asleep. Just before daylight the strangers crept out of the log and told the man to stick out his feet. They licked them again, and then said, "We have done all we can now. You will go on till you come to a place where you put a piece of bark. Raise the bark up, you will find something under it." When the man came out of the log, he found that his feet were better, he could walk comfortably. At midday he came to four posts holding up a bark roof. On the ground, under the roof, was a large piece of bark. He raised the bark and found a piece of flint, a knife and an awl, then he remembered that his men had put those things there a couple of years before, when on the warpath. He took them and went on. When it began to grow dark he looked for a hollow tree, found one and crawled into it. In the night he heard steps on the dry leaves and a voice said, "Our friend is here. Then someone said, "Put your feet out." He did so and again they were licked. Then the stranger said, "That is enough, we will lie near our friend and keep him warm." They went into the tree and lay down, but before daylight they crept out, and, after licking the man's feet again, said, "About midday you will find food." The man went on till he found a bear that apparently had been killed only a few minutes before; it was still warm. When he had skinned the bear and cut out some of the meat, he saw, not far away, a smouldering fire, he blew it and it blazed up. He cut meat into small pieces and roasted it on sticks. When night came he lay down, and soon he heard steps on the leaves as he had the preceding nights, then a voice said, "Our friend is lying down; he isn't going to die; he has plenty to eat. We'll lick his feet." When they finished, they said to him, "Nothing will happen to you now, you will reach home in safety." And they went away. The next morning the man, taking some of the meat, went on toward home. That night his friends came again. They said, "Your feet are well, but you will be cold," and they lay down one on each side of him. Before daylight, when going away, they said, "At midday you will find something to eat and to wear." The man traveled on till toward midday, then found two young bears, just killed. He skinned the bears, cooked some of the meat, tanned the skins and lay down, very tired. The next morning he made leggings of the skins, took what meat he wanted and went on. That night the friends came to him, and said, "To-morrow you will find something to wear on your feet." About midday the man came upon two fawns, just killed. He tanned the skins and made moccasins. When night came, he made a fire, cooked meat, ate, and then lay down. Soon he heard a voice say, "Our friend, you will reach home to-morrow. Now we will tell you why we healed your feet and cared for you. Always when you have been off in the woods hunting and have killed game, you have given the best part of the animal to us, and kept the smallest part for yourself; we are thankful. In the morning you will see us and know who we are." When daylight came the chief saw two men, as he thought. As soon as he stood up the men took leave of him and started off. Wanting to see his friends as long as he could he turned to look at them and in the twinkle of an eye he saw that one of them was a white and the other a black wolf. The chief reached home as his friends, the wolves, said he would. Seneca Indian Myths, by Jeremiah Curtin; New York; E.P. Dutton & Company [1922] and is now in the public domain. Come visit us at. "Keeper of Stories". http://www.newkeeperofstories.com/

A Wife for Knowledge - Winnebago Once there was a man who was very powerful and respected among the people. He was a member of the Medicine Rite. This man had only one son, and because the boy had no brothers, he knew very little. In the course of time, the father began to give his son presents. He put a kettle on the fire for him, and told him to be brave and to be a real warrior. The son wondered to himself why he was giving him gifts and advice. The father kept giving his son gifts, and eventually he gave him a fine horse and told him, "My dear son, in order to be a warrior, there are certain things you must know." Then his son understood what he meant. In the course of time the young man married a beautiful woman with red hair who came from another tribe. His father was smitten by her beauty and cast longing eyes upon her. His son did not fail to notice it. So the son gave his father this woman. The old man was very grateful and said, "How can I ever repay you, you have made my heart glad." So the father gave his son all the knowledge that he possessed. In time the red haired woman sicked and died. The old man made a bowl of her skull and then composed a song which is used to this day in the Medicine Rite. Paul Radin, The Road of Life and Death: A Ritual Drama of the American Indians. Bollingen Series V (Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1973 [1945]) 179-180. Come visit us at. "Keeper of Stories". http://www.newkeeperofstories.com/

A Ute Is Saved By His War-Medicine - Jicarilla Apache Long ago, over east of Picuris, where the houses were by the river there was a medicine ceremony. There were many people there and they danced. When it was over the Apache moved their camp to the top of the mountain. Their camp was at DziLdzenadzisgaye for some time, after which they moved to Cimarron. From there they camped in succession at Mik'egojîye, "black dried lake", at Tcôncjadzôye, "small pines", at DeLdîLnîye, "cranes make a noise," at K'ekôntsôye bîjaye, "small yellow spot", and at TseLgaiye, (white rock). From there one of the Ute who had their camp at Cimarron went to the town to buy whisky in canteens. The enemy, coming from the east, met him and he commenced to fight with them although he was alone. The Apache and the Ute knew it although they were drinking whisky. His people came to him where they were fighting on the Canadian River. Just as they came there, he was shot through the chest. He caught hold of the horse's neck and fell. Someone untied his medicine which he was wearing across his chest. The Ute spit blood and sat up. They put the medicine in his mouth four times with a spear of grama grass. "Now fill a pipe for me," he said. They filled the pipe for him and he smoked. The blood stopped flowing. They tied a cloth around his chest. He sat there. They went after the enemy. One was killed on the banks of the Canadian River. They continued fighting as the enemy withdrew eastward. They threw away their weapons and clothing, even their breech cloths. The Apache took much of their property including many horses and brought them back with them. They danced with the scalp. Jicarilla Apache Texts, by Pliny Earle Goddard; New York: Anthropological Papers of the American Museum of Natural History, Vol. VIII; (1911) and is now in the public domain. Come visit us at. "Keeper of Stories". http://www.newkeeperofstories.com/

Tsalagi Creation Story - Cherokee Many, many moons ago, in the beginning of time, the earth was all water. There was no land. All the four-leggeds, all the animals, all the winged-ones, lived up in the sky on the clouds. They were waiting for the land to dry, but it would not dry. They would send one animal but he would come back unable to find dry land. The animals would regularly check the water below. Finally, after a dog had looked and reported back that it was still wet, they sent the water beetle. The water beetle dove into the water, grabbed a handful of mud at the bottom, brought it up and placed it on top of the water and it started to dry, started to build land. He brought more and more and still they waited for it to dry, still they waited and waited. Finally, they sent grandfather buzzard, the mighty buzzard, down and the land was almost dry. As the buzzard flew, he'd fly down close to the land and every time he would flap his mighty wings, he would form a mountain and a valley. That's why the Cherokee land has mountains and valleys in it today. All the animals came down and settled on the earth. After they did, they realized they had no light. So they called to Grandfather and asked would he give them light, and he did. He brought to them the sun. He put the sun down right by the ground, and it was too hot for the animals. So they pushed and pushed, till finally they got it far enough out that it would not burn all the time; but it was still so hot that the crawfish was baked. That's why, if you look at him today, he is red from the sun being too close. Finally, they got the sun far enough out so it would not burn and we would have night. And Grandfather told them, "Now that I have done this for you, I ask that all the four-legged, and all the animals, and all the plants stay awake for seven days and for seven nights." This is why today, when a warrior goes to cross his manhood, he fasts and sweats for seven days. All the animals and all the plants fell asleep except for some. The owl stayed awake, and that's why he has vision to hunt at night now. The plants, the Douglas fir, the cedar, the pine, and a few others stayed awake for seven nights and for seven days. That's why only these, among all the plants, are allowed to stay green all the year round. The other plants fell asleep and so must sleep part of every year. Such was the beginning of our lands as told by a Cherokee grandmother to her grandson. Come visit us at. "Keeper of Stories". http://www.newkeeperofstories.com/

A Tale Of Elder Brother - Pima You people desired to capture Elder Brother so that you might destroy him, so you went to Vulture. He made a miniature earth, shaping the mountains, routing the watercourses, and placing the trees, and in four days he completed his task. Mounting the zigzag ladders of his house he flew forth and circled about until he saw Elder Brother. Vulture saw the blue flames issuing from Brother's heart and knew that he was invulnerable. In his turn Elder Brother knew what had made the earth, and wished to kill him. Elder Brother, as he regained consciousness, rose on hands and feet and swayed unsteadily from side to side. He looked at the land about him, and at first it seemed a barren waste, but as he recovered from his bewilderment he saw the wonderful world Vulture had built. Looking about him he saw a river toward the west along which grew arrow bushes. From these he cut four magic sticks; placing his hand in these he blew smoke over them, whereupon magic power shone forth from between his fingers. He was much pleased with this and laughed softly to himself. He rubbed his magic bag of buckskin four times with each of the four sticks and then put them in and tied it. Then, with his strength fully recovered, Elder Brother began to move. He arose and crushed all mortal magicians; the orator, the warrior, the industrious, and the provident woman, and even ground his own house into the earth. Then he sank beneath the surface of the earth. He reappeared in the east and made a transparent trail back to the place where he had gone down. About the base of his mountains the water began to seep forth; entering, he came out with spirit refreshed. Taking all waters, even those covered with water plants, he dipped his hands in and made downward passes. Touching the large trees he made downward sweeps with his hands. Going to the place where he had killed Eagle he sat down looking like a ghost. A voice from the darkness asked, "Why are you here?" He answered sadly that despite all that he had done for them the people hated him. He went on to the east, renewing his power four times at the place where the sun rises. He blew his hot breath upon the people, which like a weight held them where they were. He went along with the sun on his journey, traveling along the south border of the trail where there was a fringe of beads, feathers, strings of down, and flowers. He jerked the string holding these so that they fell and made the magicians jump. Later he did the same thing in the north. On his journey along the sun's orbit Elder Brother came to Talking Tree. "Why do you come like a ghost?" asked Tree. He replied, "Despite all I have done for the people they hate me." Tree broke one of its middle branches and cut a notch around it to form a war club and gave it to him. Then Tree took a branch on the south side and made a bundle of ceremonial sticks from it for him. He saw a trail toward the south and another toward the north bordered with shells, feathers, down, and flowers, and he turned them all over. Arriving at the drinking place of the sun, he knelt down and saw a dark-blue stone. He left there the sticks cut from the arrow bush which he knew contained all his enemies' power, but he kept in his grasp the sticks cut from Talking Tree. Toward the south were strewn necklaces, earrings, feathers, strings of down, and flowers, all of which he jerked and threw face down. Toward the north he threw down the same objects, and as they struck the earth the magicians jumped again. Reaching the place where the sun sets he slid down four times before he reached the place where Earth Doctor lived. "Why do you come looking like a ghost?" asked the god. "Despite all that I have done for them the people hate me," he answered. By Earth Doctor's order the wind from the west caught him up and carried him far to the east, then brought him back and violently tossed him back down to earth. The south wind carried him to the north; the east wind carried him to the west; the wind from the zenith carried him to the sky; all carelessly dropped him back down again. From his cigarette containing two kinds of roots Earth Doctor blew smoke upon the breast of Elder Brother, whereupon green leaves sprang forth and he gained consciousness. Earth Doctor cleared the ground for a council and then picked up Elder Brother as he would have taken up a child and put him in his house. Earth Doctor sent Gray Gopher up through the earth to emerge in the east by the white water where lay the eagle tail. He came out by the black water where lay the raven feathers. He came out by the blue water where lay the bluebird's feathers. He came out by the yellow water where lay the hawk feathers. He found so many people that he feared they could not be conquered. But he gnawed the magic power of their leader until he weakened it. Then he returned to the council in the nether world, where his power as a magician was recognized, and he was placed on a mat with Elder Brother. The people were now ready to do whatever Elder Brother desired of them and, like fierce predatory animals or birds of prey, they poured out of the underworld and fell upon the people of the upper world, whom they conquered without difficulty. The victors swept the property and everything relating to the conquered from the face of the earth. Consider the magic power which abode with me and which is at your service. Based on Frank Russell's 1908 report on the Pimas, and is now in the public domain. This fantastic tale of creation and violence features several related episodes in the life of the great Pima culture hero, Elder Brother, whose task it is to assert order in the primordial chaos. Elder Brother fixes the features of the landscape, he brings elements of Pima culture, and he struggles with representatives of perdition and evil, vanquishing them or, in turn, being killed himself and rising to live on another day. The Pima tell such stories not as self-contained tales but in a narrative chain, one incident suggesting the next, achieving an episodic progression with neither beginnings nor ends. Come visit us at. "Keeper of Stories". http://www.newkeeperofstories.com/

$57 & pallets :) LOL I don't have any money right now & we've still gotta get groceries some how. But in the mean time I'll see if I can find some pallets for free Alli :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danm" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 6:49 AM Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] Fw: greenhouses > starts with pallets. > You can get the 6 mill plastic clear 100 foot long, 10 foot wide 57$'s > because I just did it at Homedepoe > So what ya waiting for <G>? > Dan

I doubt there's a stud on the corners.....yes I'm serious. Our landlord has about 3-4 additions on this house, nothing lines up. There's no insulation in the walls (at least not enough to block wind & cold) the walls don't touch the floors who ever put up the shelves in the 2 rooms for the kids failed to find the studs. Its just a mess. I've got so many projects that I've started or hubby's started, its unreal.....but for right now I'm focusing on down sizing my office stuff & re-organizing that so I have my genealogy stuff together, my home business stuff together & the home schooling/craft stuff together & hubby's got his work stuff where he needs it, which isn't in my stuff :) Plus, I am going to start putting together my chicken house (tired of waiting on hubby). But projects are going to done little by little instead of started & get distracted for some reason. Now that I have a better way to do it, I think I might be able to get my cemetery project closer to completion then before, so I want to get that done. I have a book for the horse rescue that I volunteer for to get started on doing & want to get that completed this summer too. It'd be nice if you got your cranky ol' butt over here & show me some of your ideas in person for a change......I'm a hands on visual person......reading about it confuses me :) I did great in Chemistry lab......stunk in Chemistry class (book work) LOL Alli :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan M." <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] greenhouses > there is a stud finder at the hardware. > studs are 16" center or 24 centers > Old houses most likely 24, start from a corner. > Gee, stop getting ready and do something <G> > I will come over there and and and and , awe I cant aford the trip <G> > Dan

"if" you have the proper materials :) Which I don't have much.......yet :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan M." <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 9:18 AM Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] Fw: greenhouses > you can make a nice green house for less than 100 bucks. > Dan