Hello everyone---- I have been beside myself trying to understand why some family members back in the early census days put "German" in the nationality of origin column...and recently I came across someone who put "Dutch"... I just found a piece in the Resident, a Lisbon Portugal newspaper that may clear up half the mystery... http://portugalresident.com/portugalresident/showstory.asp?s=ISITME Here's just the interesting bit : " If you are a smoker, you are more likely than not to have heard of Peter Stuyvesant, the founder and Governor of New Amsterdam (today's New York) in 1626. The name change that followed 38 years later was indicative of the growing British dominance in the New World. Over the next 300 years, English speaking immigrants far outnumbered other national minorities, although among these there were a fair number of Stuyvesant's compatriots. But these settlers from Holland were not, in fact, those referred to as being 'Dutch' by their English, Irish and Scottish predecessors - 'Dutch', a mispronunciation of 'Deutsch'! Hoards of oppressed or politically persecuted Germans also flooded across the Atlantic, but their declaration of being 'Deutsch' proved too much of a tongue twister for the linguistically less than gifted Anglo-Saxons, so they became 'Dutch'. So you see, the 'Dutch' really are a fictitious race - as was that notorious gangster 'Dutch Schutz1'. This is just one example of the treasures that the constantly changing English language has to offer, which for me, is a fascinating area of study. "

Hello Derek, Having lived in the Netherlands for the last 8 years, I can assure you that there are indeed "Dutch" people. However, the word "Dutch," as is correctly stated in the excerpt you posted, is a bastardization of the word "Deutsch" meaning German. But, the "Dutch" (people from the Netherlands) don't refer to themselves as Dutch but rather as "Nederlanders" or sometimes as "Hollanders" even though Holland, made up of the two provinces of North and South Holland, is merely one part of the Netherlands. While the claim made in the article accusing Anglo-Saxon peoples of being less linguistically adept than others may be a fair statement today with the virtual dominance of English as the premier world language, at the time of Peter Stuyvesant this was certainly not the case. As with any trading nation of people, which the English certainly were, the knowledge of other languages and being able to speak them was of paramount importance. Moreover, William the Conquerer was a French speaker and the official legal language of the courts of England was French until 1732. Additionally (and very interesting in the context of our subject matter, the "Dutch,"), William III, the King of England from 1689-1702, was a Dutchman and was the Prince of Holland known as William of Orange. There were also many Nederlanders from Flanders (also known as the Flemish) who fled the harsh rule of Duke Alva of Spain in the 16th century and emigrated to Colchester, England, and they were referred to even then as the "Dutch." The Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines the word "Dutch" as incorporating all Germanic peoples or languages from the main continent of Europe (excluding Scandanavia which is also Germanic). Main Entry: *2Dutch* Function: *noun* *1 a* *archaic* (1) *:* any of the Germanic languages of Germany, Austria, Switzerland, and the Low Countries (2) *: GERMAN <http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/german+>*3 *b* *:* the Germanic language of the Netherlands *2* *Dutch* *plural* *a* *archaic* *:* the Germanic peoples of Germany, Austria, Switzerland, and the Low Countries *b* *: GERMANS <http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/germans+>*2a, b *c* *:* the people of the Netherlands. Furthermore, I would like to comment on a comment in the rest of the article from which you posted the excerpt. The writer claims that Germanic languages are "not the medium of communication suited to love, romance or mysticism" and uses as his example the word for "butterfly" as proof. However, the word for butterfly in Dutch is "vlinder" (pronounced "flinder" which a short "i" as in "hinder") which I find to be at least as melifluous as the French "papillon." Also, I find it quite interesting that the author of this article does not seem to realize that English itself is a Germanic language. So, I wouldn't put too much stock in what he has written about the Dutch. Cheers, Jeffrey On 10/21/05, Derek Chase <chasede@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote: > > Hello everyone---- > > I have been beside myself trying to understand why some family members > back in the early census days put "German" in the nationality of origin > column...and recently I came across someone who put "Dutch"... > > I just found a piece in the Resident, a Lisbon Portugal newspaper that may > clear up half the mystery... > > http://portugalresident.com/portugalresident/showstory.asp?s=ISITME > > Here's just the interesting bit : > > " If you are a smoker, you are more likely than not to have heard of Peter > Stuyvesant, the founder and Governor of New Amsterdam (today's New York) in > 1626. The name change that followed 38 years later was indicative of the > growing British dominance in the New World. Over the next 300 years, English > speaking immigrants far outnumbered other national minorities, although > among these there were a fair number of Stuyvesant's compatriots. But these > settlers from Holland were not, in fact, those referred to as being 'Dutch' > by their English, Irish and Scottish predecessors - 'Dutch', a > mispronunciation of 'Deutsch'! > > Hoards of oppressed or politically persecuted Germans also flooded across > the Atlantic, but their declaration of being 'Deutsch' proved too much of a > tongue twister for the linguistically less than gifted Anglo-Saxons, so they > became 'Dutch'. So you see, the 'Dutch' really are a fictitious race - as > was that notorious gangster 'Dutch Schutz1'. This is just one example of the > treasures that the constantly changing English language has to offer, which > for me, is a fascinating area of study. " > > > ==== CHASE Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the list send a request here > Chase-L-request@rootsweb.com and put the word unsubscribe ONLY in the > subject and message boxes. > > -- Jeffrey Chace http://www.chace.demon.nl