Keith, I am aware of the English game Rounders. My message was meant "tongue in cheek" (whatever that really means!). In a comparison between Rounders and Baseball, I have read, and I paraphrase, "For all of the ways Rounders and Baseball are alike, the differences far outweigh the similarities." I realise that most sports are derived from much older ones. I thought it was quite funny that we have this legend in America that Abner Doubleday invented Baseball (I would believe he invented the Doubleheader!), but that has long ago been debunked and yet we still hold to it. I think it is funny to imagine that had Edward B. Chace been attributed with the invention of Baseball at this much earlier date then Doubleday, that a Doubleday today may have been writing this sort of emails as a lark. Or someone else. Just something odd I found. Hope all is well with you and Iris. I really enjoyed your visit here. The Floriade is still going on and I am planning to catch it before it ends. BTW, there is also a 400th anniversary of the founding of the Dutch East Indies Company in museums in Amsterdam and Rotterdam. If you find yourself over here again this summer, I think it will be a fascinating exhibit. Cheers, Jeffrey > There is an English game called "Rounders" from which many believe baseball > originated. > It was very popular when I was a boy. It had its origins in Tudor times ,(ie > before 1603). > However the gane did not become popular before 1800 and it wa not until > the 1880s that an official set of rules was adopted. > The biggest difference in the game was that you could hit the ball in any > direction and for some time the striker could be got out bt throwing the > ball and hitting him/her before they reached the base as well as striking > them out. > This information was obtained from the Encyclopeadia Brittanica 1963 > edition,( for some years prior this famous reference book was owned by an > American company) > > Keith Hume > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeffrey Chace <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 4:31 PM > Subject: [CHASE-L] A Chace may have invented Baseball > > > > http://www.historybuff.com/library/refearlybase.html > > > > Funny, he is referred to as Edward B. Chace and in the same paragraph as > > Mr. Chase. > > > > Was Abner Doubleday Really the Originator? > > By Tom Helgesen > > NCSA Member #592 > > > > It seems that controversy still rages over the origins of baseball. In > 1991 > > the Baseball Hall of Fame was delighted to hear about a baseball notice > > that is the earliest known printed reference to organized baseball in > > America. The July 13, 1825 edition of the "Delhi (N.Y.) Gazette" (on > > microfilm) has a notice listing the names of nine men challenging any > group > > in Delaware County to a game of baseball at the home of Edward B. Chace > for > > $1 per game. (The notice came from Hamden, New Jersey.) The Baseball Hall > > of Fame hopes to send a student to search the microfilm records of > > the "Delhi Gazette" to see what else might be contained in its pages to > > shed light on Mr. Chase and his nine ball players. > > > > Abner Doubleday was the first to be officially recognized as the creator > of > > baseball. A turn-of-the-century national baseball panel awarded the honor > > to Doubleday on the strength of a letter from an old schoolmate claiming > > Abner devised the rules for the game in 1839 in Cooperstown, New York. > > Although his name has stuck with the public, Doubleday was long ago shorn > > of this honor by historians who examined the evidence. > > > > Tom Heitz of the National Baseball Library in Cooperstown, New York, said > > in a phone interview recently that the Hall of Fame recognizes September, > > 1845 as the time when the rules of the game we know as baseball were first > > set down. They were adopted by the New York Knickerbockers, led by a bank > > clerk named Alexander Cartwright. The following June in Hoboken, New > > Jersey, the Knickerbockers played the first organized baseball game > between > > two teams using the new rules. The controversy as it turns out is actually > > more a rivalry between cities vying for the distinction as the birthplace > > of baseball. > > > > What is still not well understood, however, is the origins of the game > > before 1845 -- the period referred to by the Hall as early baseball. > > Historians have found references to early forms of baseball in the New > York > > cities such as Rochester and Geneso in the 1820's. Organized clubs played > > in Philadelphia and the New York City area in the 1830's. Evidence has > been > > found of early baseball in Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont, and > other > > northeastern states. Although called baseball, most of the games were > > experiments with different rules and methods of play that may or may not > > resemble the game we know today. > > > > Mr. Heitz said the Hall of Fame would be very interested in hearing of any > > baseball references prior to September, 1846 unearthed by NCSA members. > The > > Hall knows what happened after that date but would like to know more about > > the precursors of baseball before that date -- what rules were used, who > > played earlier forms and where and when. > > > > There's also an interesting twist for our English friends to look into. In > > 1748 a Lady Hervey wrote a letter in which she describes family activities > > of Frederick, Prince of Wales. She refers to family members "diverting > > themselves in baseball, a play all who are or have been schoolboys are > well > > acquainted with." Was this game like the baseball we know today? If it was > > a common school yard game as she implies, would there be references to it > > elsewhere? Perhaps in newspapers? There have been some scant references to > > baseball as far back as the American Revolution and England in the early > > 1700's. > > > > > > Jeffrey Chace > > [email protected] > > > > My Chace website: http://home.wanadoo.nl/j.b.chace > > Search these emails: > > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=CHASE > > Browse these emails: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/CHASE-L/ > > > > > > Jeffrey Chace [email protected] My Chace website: http://home.wanadoo.nl/j.b.chace Search these emails: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=CHASE Browse these emails: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/CHASE-L/