I,totally agree with you about a medicine man in pretense on Internet trying to sell anything period... NOT REAL and this person needs to stop it! That's exactly one reason the Indians had "AIM" to keep people like that from taking advantage of the First Nations not specificially for violence but because of atrocities such as this! He needs to watch what he's doing ... -----Original Message----- From: Markie [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2000 6:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Can you believe what is on E-bay???? Hi Patsy, I don't mean to be putting anyone down....and try very hard to never do that...I never judge anyone, and try to see both sides even if I have walked in their shoes at some point...... BUT there are so many people out there who "are" taking people's good, "hard earned" money to teach them something that they, themselves, usually do not know anything about. I have never in my life time "ever" known of/seen any TRUE "shaman, medicine man, holy woman, spititual person, elder", or what ever else you want to call them, "SELLING" their heritage or if you prefer, spirituality. And when I say "true", I mean someone who holds it in their heart. Who believes it in their sole, through and through, with every breath they take. Blood quantum does not enter into this at all to me... To me A "true" person of the people is not someone who is just out to make a dollar. So many of the Native Americans are being so hurt, mad, outraged, and many other things about this type of thing. I have heard some talking of the feeling of being raped of their culture by this type of situtation. I, for one, would not ever give someone a single penny for something like this. The Native American people feel this is just one more thing that we are being robbed of.... just like all of our land that was stolen from us by the US Gov. among other things... Native Americans were not even American citizens and didn't get the right to vote until 1928, "after" fighting in WWI, which had our own Choctaw men, who were the VERY FIRST code talkers EVER, serving their lives for this country. This is one thing, in my opinion, that is "not" for sale! And to do so is wrong, no matter how one looks at it. I don't take a stand on many things, but this just happens to be the one that I do stand up for. This auction is a dutch bid.... that means that as many people that wants to, can bid on it...so right now there are 5 bidders.... @ $250.00 each, so he is making a total of $1,250.00 at this moment, with 1 day and 20 hours to go before the auction ends!!! Sounds like he is right in there with "some" of the Television Evanglists to me! BUT selling it on the Internet??? Giving classes on the Internet thru E-mail?? No Way! NO, this is not right by my standards at all! I think it is a disgrace! He should be ashamed!!! Sorry... this soapbox just keeps gettting under me somehow.. Markie Here is the ebay page address again if anyone would like to check this out... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=271981927 At 04:13 PM 03/04/2000 -0700, you wrote: >yall better look before you leap maybe put em bigfoot in_________ >Signd Bigfoot >----- Original Message ----- >From: Markie <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2000 3:53 PM >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Can you believe what is on E-bay???? > > >> Lucus, >> >> Your msg. gave me chill bumps.. <S> I know some folks like Woogie also. >> And you are so correct in what you say. Our "real" spiritual people don't >> take anyone's money. The gifts they receive, come from a lot higher >place >> than this old earth. I've either heard of Woogie, or met him at one >> time... the name is so familiar to me.... But I'm not sure from where? A >> group of us went to the Chappibbitie (ms?) pow wow in Lawton several years >> ago, so that may be where I know the name from, but not sure. >> >> I Thank the Creator for giving us people like him. >> >> I know that even some Indian People do this type of thing.. I knew one of >> them "very well" and he was full blood. A true blue con artist in the >> flesh... but you couldn't help but like him. <G> Like my sister in law >> said... have you ever met a con artist that wasn't likeable? That's what >> makes them so good at what they do. Good and bad come in all sizes and >> races...I didn't know there was a magazine named "Shaman's Drum". I'm >> further out in the boonies than I thought... LOL >> >> I don't know why I was so shocked to see this on E-Bay, but I was. I was >> surfing Collectiable stuff, and came across it. It just took me by >> surprise, I guess.. . It also made me very sad. There are so many who >> just do not know what they are talking about, and so many who do not know >> any better, and who want to learn of their culture, fall for it, from >lack >> of knowledge. Taken in by their good hearts, and the sincere need to >> learn, but those good hearts are then torn with untruths, before they >know >> what happened to them.....this is what is sad to me. >> >> Thank you for sharing >> Markie >> >> At 01:13 PM 03/04/2000 -0600, you wrote: >> >Markie, >> > >> >As sad as it is, there are a number of "professional shaman" schools in >> >business today; some by Native Americans and many by non-indians. They >> >advertise in the magazine Shaman's Drum. >> > >> >It makes my heart sick inside but Texas and Oklahoma are filled with >> >non-indian "shamans" who charge people for counseling and healings. Most >of >> >these are women. Woogie Watchetaker, a noted medicine man of the >Comanche >> >Nation told me once that people who take money for sharing the gifts of >God >> >will never go to the land of souls after they cross the river. Woogie >could >> >make rain, heal all sorts of illnesses and bring good fortune for some >> >people. but he NEVER charged a penny for that. He lived in a little >> >three-room wooden shotgun house outside of Lawton. Sometimes people would >> >bring gifts and leave them on his porch at night and sometimes they would >> >slip a little cash to his wife, but she too never ASKED for any money. >And >> >he was very spiritual. Once we slept alone together on the second floor >of >> >an old army barracks at Fort Hood, Texas before an Indian burial there. >I >> >got up at three in the morning and noticed that he was not in his bed. I >> >found him on his knees praying in the dark by a window. Compare that >with >> >people who charge to teach people to be "shamans." >> > >> >Lucas Graywolf >> > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== Home Page: http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.htm Choctaw Chat: http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/chat.htm