Markie, As sad as it is, there are a number of "professional shaman" schools in business today; some by Native Americans and many by non-indians. They advertise in the magazine Shaman's Drum. It makes my heart sick inside but Texas and Oklahoma are filled with non-indian "shamans" who charge people for counseling and healings. Most of these are women. Woogie Watchetaker, a noted medicine man of the Comanche Nation told me once that people who take money for sharing the gifts of God will never go to the land of souls after they cross the river. Woogie could make rain, heal all sorts of illnesses and bring good fortune for some people. but he NEVER charged a penny for that. He lived in a little three-room wooden shotgun house outside of Lawton. Sometimes people would bring gifts and leave them on his porch at night and sometimes they would slip a little cash to his wife, but she too never ASKED for any money. And he was very spiritual. Once we slept alone together on the second floor of an old army barracks at Fort Hood, Texas before an Indian burial there. I got up at three in the morning and noticed that he was not in his bed. I found him on his knees praying in the dark by a window. Compare that with people who charge to teach people to be "shamans." Lucas Graywolf ----- Original Message ----- From: "Markie" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2000 4:54 AM Subject: [CHAHTA] Can you believe what is on E-bay???? > Well Folks, > > I just "thought" I had seen it all... while surfing E-bay, I came across > this page. I just had to share this with "someone"... so I guess it will > be my family here. Can you believe that someone is actually "selling" > this? And what's more unbelievable is someone is "BUYING" it!! I knew > it was going on all over the country, but on > "E-BAY"??? > > E-mail Shaman?? I can't help but laugh, even tho it is not funny... it's > sad how so many people will take our native american beliefs that are held > sacred, and make money off of them. It makes me ... nukoa (mad) and > nukhaklo (sad)... the worst thing about this to me, is they probably don't > know the first thing about what they are selling.... I wouldn't be > surprised to learn the only thing this person knows is what they read from > some kooks book that they read! > > I'm sorry, just had to say this to somebody.... let me get off of my soap > box here. > > Markie < still shaking my head in disblief over this one> > > > *****$250.00***** > > SHAMAN APPRENTICE PROGRAM..SERIOUS ONLY! > Item #271981927 > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=271981927 > > >I am a Native American shaman, spiritualist and herbalist. > > > >The Shaman Program is a very elite and special Program, with daily > teachings, lessons and specific instructions. It is not to be entered into > lightly and I will only accept a handful of people for this Program. You > will learn a great deal and experience many things. > > > >You will learn how to recognize, call upon and utilize the energies and > powers from our animal totems to your benefit. How to use herbs and Mother > Earth to heal. You will gain a greater knowledge of your own energies and > spirit. These knowledges and training will transform you! > > > > > >Lessons are transmitted by email each day. These are not > computer-generated; they are one-on-one and individually tailored to your > needs abilities and capabilities. You MUST be prepared to review the > lessons, complete the assignments and tasks and return your "homework" to > me within 24 hours each day! Any questions, please email me PRIOR to > bidding. My references are always available upon request. Please...serious > students only! You must be 18 or older and prove it. Will make exception > for 16 and 17 year-olds with notarized parental consent. > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.htm > Choctaw Chat: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/chat.htm > >

send me the ebay address or url or email i want to see this can somebody transfr it all to out chat site ----- Original Message ----- From: Graywolf <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2000 12:13 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Can you believe what is on E-bay???? > Markie, > > As sad as it is, there are a number of "professional shaman" schools in > business today; some by Native Americans and many by non-indians. They > advertise in the magazine Shaman's Drum. > > It makes my heart sick inside but Texas and Oklahoma are filled with > non-indian "shamans" who charge people for counseling and healings. Most of > these are women. Woogie Watchetaker, a noted medicine man of the Comanche > Nation told me once that people who take money for sharing the gifts of God > will never go to the land of souls after they cross the river. Woogie could > make rain, heal all sorts of illnesses and bring good fortune for some > people. but he NEVER charged a penny for that. He lived in a little > three-room wooden shotgun house outside of Lawton. Sometimes people would > bring gifts and leave them on his porch at night and sometimes they would > slip a little cash to his wife, but she too never ASKED for any money. And > he was very spiritual. Once we slept alone together on the second floor of > an old army barracks at Fort Hood, Texas before an Indian burial there. I > got up at three in the morning and noticed that he was not in his bed. I > found him on his knees praying in the dark by a window. Compare that with > people who charge to teach people to be "shamans." > > Lucas Graywolf > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Markie" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2000 4:54 AM > Subject: [CHAHTA] Can you believe what is on E-bay???? > > > > Well Folks, > > > > I just "thought" I had seen it all... while surfing E-bay, I came across > > this page. I just had to share this with "someone"... so I guess it will > > be my family here. Can you believe that someone is actually "selling" > > this? And what's more unbelievable is someone is "BUYING" it!! I knew > > it was going on all over the country, but on > > "E-BAY"??? > > > > E-mail Shaman?? I can't help but laugh, even tho it is not funny... it's > > sad how so many people will take our native american beliefs that are held > > sacred, and make money off of them. It makes me ... nukoa (mad) and > > nukhaklo (sad)... the worst thing about this to me, is they probably don't > > know the first thing about what they are selling.... I wouldn't be > > surprised to learn the only thing this person knows is what they read from > > some kooks book that they read! > > > > I'm sorry, just had to say this to somebody.... let me get off of my soap > > box here. > > > > Markie < still shaking my head in disblief over this one> > > > > > > *****$250.00***** > > > > SHAMAN APPRENTICE PROGRAM..SERIOUS ONLY! > > Item #271981927 > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=271981927 > > > > >I am a Native American shaman, spiritualist and herbalist. > > > > > >The Shaman Program is a very elite and special Program, with daily > > teachings, lessons and specific instructions. It is not to be entered into > > lightly and I will only accept a handful of people for this Program. You > > will learn a great deal and experience many things. > > > > > >You will learn how to recognize, call upon and utilize the energies and > > powers from our animal totems to your benefit. How to use herbs and Mother > > Earth to heal. You will gain a greater knowledge of your own energies and > > spirit. These knowledges and training will transform you! > > > > > > > > >Lessons are transmitted by email each day. These are not > > computer-generated; they are one-on-one and individually tailored to your > > needs abilities and capabilities. You MUST be prepared to review the > > lessons, complete the assignments and tasks and return your "homework" to > > me within 24 hours each day! Any questions, please email me PRIOR to > > bidding. My references are always available upon request. Please...serious > > students only! You must be 18 or older and prove it. Will make exception > > for 16 and 17 year-olds with notarized parental consent. > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.htm > > Choctaw Chat: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/chat.htm > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: > Send msg. to [email protected] > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > >

Lucus, Your msg. gave me chill bumps.. <S> I know some folks like Woogie also. And you are so correct in what you say. Our "real" spiritual people don't take anyone's money. The gifts they receive, come from a lot higher place than this old earth. I've either heard of Woogie, or met him at one time... the name is so familiar to me.... But I'm not sure from where? A group of us went to the Chappibbitie (ms?) pow wow in Lawton several years ago, so that may be where I know the name from, but not sure. I Thank the Creator for giving us people like him. I know that even some Indian People do this type of thing.. I knew one of them "very well" and he was full blood. A true blue con artist in the flesh... but you couldn't help but like him. <G> Like my sister in law said... have you ever met a con artist that wasn't likeable? That's what makes them so good at what they do. Good and bad come in all sizes and races...I didn't know there was a magazine named "Shaman's Drum". I'm further out in the boonies than I thought... LOL I don't know why I was so shocked to see this on E-Bay, but I was. I was surfing Collectiable stuff, and came across it. It just took me by surprise, I guess.. . It also made me very sad. There are so many who just do not know what they are talking about, and so many who do not know any better, and who want to learn of their culture, fall for it, from lack of knowledge. Taken in by their good hearts, and the sincere need to learn, but those good hearts are then torn with untruths, before they know what happened to them.....this is what is sad to me. Thank you for sharing Markie At 01:13 PM 03/04/2000 -0600, you wrote: >Markie, > >As sad as it is, there are a number of "professional shaman" schools in >business today; some by Native Americans and many by non-indians. They >advertise in the magazine Shaman's Drum. > >It makes my heart sick inside but Texas and Oklahoma are filled with >non-indian "shamans" who charge people for counseling and healings. Most of >these are women. Woogie Watchetaker, a noted medicine man of the Comanche >Nation told me once that people who take money for sharing the gifts of God >will never go to the land of souls after they cross the river. Woogie could >make rain, heal all sorts of illnesses and bring good fortune for some >people. but he NEVER charged a penny for that. He lived in a little >three-room wooden shotgun house outside of Lawton. Sometimes people would >bring gifts and leave them on his porch at night and sometimes they would >slip a little cash to his wife, but she too never ASKED for any money. And >he was very spiritual. Once we slept alone together on the second floor of >an old army barracks at Fort Hood, Texas before an Indian burial there. I >got up at three in the morning and noticed that he was not in his bed. I >found him on his knees praying in the dark by a window. Compare that with >people who charge to teach people to be "shamans." > >Lucas Graywolf >

I guess i have seen to many indians growing up in southeastern oklahoma going without so much i always stop and think first before i judge any because of poverty and the like. innocent befor e proven guilty i always said yall let me know what becomes of the poor indian your stomping into the ground and if you actually have any real evidence against this person send it so we can all see it ----- Original Message ----- From: Markie <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2000 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Can you believe what is on E-bay???? > Lucus, > > Your msg. gave me chill bumps.. <S> I know some folks like Woogie also. > And you are so correct in what you say. Our "real" spiritual people don't > take anyone's money. The gifts they receive, come from a lot higher place > than this old earth. I've either heard of Woogie, or met him at one > time... the name is so familiar to me.... But I'm not sure from where? A > group of us went to the Chappibbitie (ms?) pow wow in Lawton several years > ago, so that may be where I know the name from, but not sure. > > I Thank the Creator for giving us people like him. > > I know that even some Indian People do this type of thing.. I knew one of > them "very well" and he was full blood. A true blue con artist in the > flesh... but you couldn't help but like him. <G> Like my sister in law > said... have you ever met a con artist that wasn't likeable? That's what > makes them so good at what they do. Good and bad come in all sizes and > races...I didn't know there was a magazine named "Shaman's Drum". I'm > further out in the boonies than I thought... LOL > > I don't know why I was so shocked to see this on E-Bay, but I was. I was > surfing Collectiable stuff, and came across it. It just took me by > surprise, I guess.. . It also made me very sad. There are so many who > just do not know what they are talking about, and so many who do not know > any better, and who want to learn of their culture, fall for it, from lack > of knowledge. Taken in by their good hearts, and the sincere need to > learn, but those good hearts are then torn with untruths, before they know > what happened to them.....this is what is sad to me. > > Thank you for sharing > Markie > > At 01:13 PM 03/04/2000 -0600, you wrote: > >Markie, > > > >As sad as it is, there are a number of "professional shaman" schools in > >business today; some by Native Americans and many by non-indians. They > >advertise in the magazine Shaman's Drum. > > > >It makes my heart sick inside but Texas and Oklahoma are filled with > >non-indian "shamans" who charge people for counseling and healings. Most of > >these are women. Woogie Watchetaker, a noted medicine man of the Comanche > >Nation told me once that people who take money for sharing the gifts of God > >will never go to the land of souls after they cross the river. Woogie could > >make rain, heal all sorts of illnesses and bring good fortune for some > >people. but he NEVER charged a penny for that. He lived in a little > >three-room wooden shotgun house outside of Lawton. Sometimes people would > >bring gifts and leave them on his porch at night and sometimes they would > >slip a little cash to his wife, but she too never ASKED for any money. And > >he was very spiritual. Once we slept alone together on the second floor of > >an old army barracks at Fort Hood, Texas before an Indian burial there. I > >got up at three in the morning and noticed that he was not in his bed. I > >found him on his knees praying in the dark by a window. Compare that with > >people who charge to teach people to be "shamans." > > > >Lucas Graywolf > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: > Send msg. to [email protected] > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > >

yall better look before you leap maybe put em bigfoot in_________ Signd Bigfoot ----- Original Message ----- From: Markie <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2000 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Can you believe what is on E-bay???? > Lucus, > > Your msg. gave me chill bumps.. <S> I know some folks like Woogie also. > And you are so correct in what you say. Our "real" spiritual people don't > take anyone's money. The gifts they receive, come from a lot higher place > than this old earth. I've either heard of Woogie, or met him at one > time... the name is so familiar to me.... But I'm not sure from where? A > group of us went to the Chappibbitie (ms?) pow wow in Lawton several years > ago, so that may be where I know the name from, but not sure. > > I Thank the Creator for giving us people like him. > > I know that even some Indian People do this type of thing.. I knew one of > them "very well" and he was full blood. A true blue con artist in the > flesh... but you couldn't help but like him. <G> Like my sister in law > said... have you ever met a con artist that wasn't likeable? That's what > makes them so good at what they do. Good and bad come in all sizes and > races...I didn't know there was a magazine named "Shaman's Drum". I'm > further out in the boonies than I thought... LOL > > I don't know why I was so shocked to see this on E-Bay, but I was. I was > surfing Collectiable stuff, and came across it. It just took me by > surprise, I guess.. . It also made me very sad. There are so many who > just do not know what they are talking about, and so many who do not know > any better, and who want to learn of their culture, fall for it, from lack > of knowledge. Taken in by their good hearts, and the sincere need to > learn, but those good hearts are then torn with untruths, before they know > what happened to them.....this is what is sad to me. > > Thank you for sharing > Markie > > At 01:13 PM 03/04/2000 -0600, you wrote: > >Markie, > > > >As sad as it is, there are a number of "professional shaman" schools in > >business today; some by Native Americans and many by non-indians. They > >advertise in the magazine Shaman's Drum. > > > >It makes my heart sick inside but Texas and Oklahoma are filled with > >non-indian "shamans" who charge people for counseling and healings. Most of > >these are women. Woogie Watchetaker, a noted medicine man of the Comanche > >Nation told me once that people who take money for sharing the gifts of God > >will never go to the land of souls after they cross the river. Woogie could > >make rain, heal all sorts of illnesses and bring good fortune for some > >people. but he NEVER charged a penny for that. He lived in a little > >three-room wooden shotgun house outside of Lawton. Sometimes people would > >bring gifts and leave them on his porch at night and sometimes they would > >slip a little cash to his wife, but she too never ASKED for any money. And > >he was very spiritual. Once we slept alone together on the second floor of > >an old army barracks at Fort Hood, Texas before an Indian burial there. I > >got up at three in the morning and noticed that he was not in his bed. I > >found him on his knees praying in the dark by a window. Compare that with > >people who charge to teach people to be "shamans." > > > >Lucas Graywolf > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: > Send msg. to [email protected] > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > >

Hi Patsy, I don't mean to be putting anyone down....and try very hard to never do that...I never judge anyone, and try to see both sides even if I have walked in their shoes at some point...... BUT there are so many people out there who "are" taking people's good, "hard earned" money to teach them something that they, themselves, usually do not know anything about. I have never in my life time "ever" known of/seen any TRUE "shaman, medicine man, holy woman, spititual person, elder", or what ever else you want to call them, "SELLING" their heritage or if you prefer, spirituality. And when I say "true", I mean someone who holds it in their heart. Who believes it in their sole, through and through, with every breath they take. Blood quantum does not enter into this at all to me... To me A "true" person of the people is not someone who is just out to make a dollar. So many of the Native Americans are being so hurt, mad, outraged, and many other things about this type of thing. I have heard some talking of the feeling of being raped of their culture by this type of situtation. I, for one, would not ever give someone a single penny for something like this. The Native American people feel this is just one more thing that we are being robbed of.... just like all of our land that was stolen from us by the US Gov. among other things... Native Americans were not even American citizens and didn't get the right to vote until 1928, "after" fighting in WWI, which had our own Choctaw men, who were the VERY FIRST code talkers EVER, serving their lives for this country. This is one thing, in my opinion, that is "not" for sale! And to do so is wrong, no matter how one looks at it. I don't take a stand on many things, but this just happens to be the one that I do stand up for. This auction is a dutch bid.... that means that as many people that wants to, can bid on it...so right now there are 5 bidders.... @ $250.00 each, so he is making a total of $1,250.00 at this moment, with 1 day and 20 hours to go before the auction ends!!! Sounds like he is right in there with "some" of the Television Evanglists to me! BUT selling it on the Internet??? Giving classes on the Internet thru E-mail?? No Way! NO, this is not right by my standards at all! I think it is a disgrace! He should be ashamed!!! Sorry... this soapbox just keeps gettting under me somehow.. Markie Here is the ebay page address again if anyone would like to check this out... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=271981927 At 04:13 PM 03/04/2000 -0700, you wrote: >yall better look before you leap maybe put em bigfoot in_________ >Signd Bigfoot >----- Original Message ----- >From: Markie <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2000 3:53 PM >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Can you believe what is on E-bay???? > > >> Lucus, >> >> Your msg. gave me chill bumps.. <S> I know some folks like Woogie also. >> And you are so correct in what you say. Our "real" spiritual people don't >> take anyone's money. The gifts they receive, come from a lot higher >place >> than this old earth. I've either heard of Woogie, or met him at one >> time... the name is so familiar to me.... But I'm not sure from where? A >> group of us went to the Chappibbitie (ms?) pow wow in Lawton several years >> ago, so that may be where I know the name from, but not sure. >> >> I Thank the Creator for giving us people like him. >> >> I know that even some Indian People do this type of thing.. I knew one of >> them "very well" and he was full blood. A true blue con artist in the >> flesh... but you couldn't help but like him. <G> Like my sister in law >> said... have you ever met a con artist that wasn't likeable? That's what >> makes them so good at what they do. Good and bad come in all sizes and >> races...I didn't know there was a magazine named "Shaman's Drum". I'm >> further out in the boonies than I thought... LOL >> >> I don't know why I was so shocked to see this on E-Bay, but I was. I was >> surfing Collectiable stuff, and came across it. It just took me by >> surprise, I guess.. . It also made me very sad. There are so many who >> just do not know what they are talking about, and so many who do not know >> any better, and who want to learn of their culture, fall for it, from >lack >> of knowledge. Taken in by their good hearts, and the sincere need to >> learn, but those good hearts are then torn with untruths, before they >know >> what happened to them.....this is what is sad to me. >> >> Thank you for sharing >> Markie >> >> At 01:13 PM 03/04/2000 -0600, you wrote: >> >Markie, >> > >> >As sad as it is, there are a number of "professional shaman" schools in >> >business today; some by Native Americans and many by non-indians. They >> >advertise in the magazine Shaman's Drum. >> > >> >It makes my heart sick inside but Texas and Oklahoma are filled with >> >non-indian "shamans" who charge people for counseling and healings. Most >of >> >these are women. Woogie Watchetaker, a noted medicine man of the >Comanche >> >Nation told me once that people who take money for sharing the gifts of >God >> >will never go to the land of souls after they cross the river. Woogie >could >> >make rain, heal all sorts of illnesses and bring good fortune for some >> >people. but he NEVER charged a penny for that. He lived in a little >> >three-room wooden shotgun house outside of Lawton. Sometimes people would >> >bring gifts and leave them on his porch at night and sometimes they would >> >slip a little cash to his wife, but she too never ASKED for any money. >And >> >he was very spiritual. Once we slept alone together on the second floor >of >> >an old army barracks at Fort Hood, Texas before an Indian burial there. >I >> >got up at three in the morning and noticed that he was not in his bed. I >> >found him on his knees praying in the dark by a window. Compare that >with >> >people who charge to teach people to be "shamans." >> > >> >Lucas Graywolf >> >