--WebTV-Mail-23334-6114 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Halito Chahtas Just read thru all posts and was disturbed by what Markie found on E-bay too. I agree with Greywolf and other responses from list but must add a few things, just my beliefs. SHAMAN is not an NDN word. I abhor the use of it! It is a bastardized terminology for medicine man, woman, maker, etc. In Chahta, ours are MAKERS and MOTHERS (Makers of Medicine and Spirit Mothers) Every tribe has their own word for their traditional keepers and practicers of spiritual and medicine ways and beliefs. (I will be using the word Maker in the context of this post.) Most who use the word SHAMAN to describe themselves are shysters or non-purveyors of the truth in Spirit. NEVER was money, not to mention white man's money, a form of payment for spiritual help! A maker of medicine did not ask for payment. They would ask for Spirits help period if the asker was of true request. A person never went to a traditional person and asked for help without an offering in return...but payment is another word I do not like in this context! An offering in return was given to the person who Spirit worked thru to help the Peoples. The gift/offering was for that person and SPIRIT! For example...in Christian beliefs.. ie: Old Testament, only the purest and best offerings were offered to God for sacrifice so the smoke from the sacrifice would be pleasing to God to answer the prayers asked. True makers of medicine never ask for payment because they have been given a gift from Spirit and to try and capitalize on that is not of traditional ways and beliefs. In regards to AIM (American Indian Movement). Yes AIM did (when started in 1970s) and does help to work toward NDN solidarity in all traditional, cultural and heritage beliefs and tribal structures, as do many other organizations, such as AIR (American Indian Rights), The Confederation of Autonomous Chapters (spin-off of AIM) and many others.. BUT .. it's EVERY NDN's responsibility to take action against any and all who take of our culture and heritage for their own monetary and self-promoting gains! We can not sit idly by and allow the perpetuation of plunder of heritages and cultures to continue, If we do we are turning a blind eye and allowing the continuation of Removal and The Trail of Tears! If you witnessed the digging up of one of your family member's graves so that the body/bones could be sold for some new age remedy for spirituality, would you approve?.. Help them dig??? I don't think so..... We all are keepers and protectors of our heritage and culture ... don't depend on the watchdog groups to do what the Old Ones expect us to do! People such as this person selling SNAKE OIL on E-bay can be reported to Ndn watchdog organizations so that their e-mail address, their profile and what they are doing can be posted on the net and linked thru out the Indian Nations on the Net. I hope that in the not too distant future someone will create a web site listing all the Snake OIl salespersons and doers of so called Native American Shaman business and totem animal finders and etc etc etc, cuz most generally there AIN"T NUTHIN" NATIVE ABOUT IT! Apologies for my soap box.. I just get so angry about this kind of stuff that I go searching for all my buried hatchets! Yokoke for your reading this..again just my beliefs...no hurt intended to anyone!!!!!!! <:<>:> Lillian --WebTV-Mail-23334-6114 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from mailsorter-101-11.iap.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.45) by storefull-291.iap.bryant.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Sat, 4 Mar 2000 03:00:38 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: <[email protected]> Received: from bl-10.rootsweb.com (bl-10.rootsweb.com [204.212.38.26]) by mailsorter-101-11.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/ms.dwm.v7+dul2) with ESMTP id DAA29705; Sat, 4 Mar 2000 03:00:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from [email protected]) by bl-10.rootsweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA03664; Sat, 4 Mar 2000 02:59:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 02:59:36 -0800 Message-Id: <[email protected]> X-Sender: [email protected] X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 04:54:55 -0600 Old-To: [email protected] From: Markie <[email protected]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [CHAHTA] Can you believe what is on E-bay???? Resent-Message-ID: <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Resent-From: [email protected] Reply-To: [email protected] X-Mailing-List: <[email protected]> archive/latest/229 X-Loop: [email protected] Precedence: list Resent-Sender: [email protected] Well Folks, I just "thought" I had seen it all... while surfing E-bay, I came across this page. I just had to share this with "someone"... so I guess it will be my family here. Can you believe that someone is actually "selling" this? And what's more unbelievable is someone is "BUYING" it!! I knew it was going on all over the country, but on "E-BAY"??? E-mail Shaman?? I can't help but laugh, even tho it is not funny... it's sad how so many people will take our native american beliefs that are held sacred, and make money off of them. It makes me ... nukoa (mad) and nukhaklo (sad)... the worst thing about this to me, is they probably don't know the first thing about what they are selling.... I wouldn't be surprised to learn the only thing this person knows is what they read from some kooks book that they read! I'm sorry, just had to say this to somebody.... let me get off of my soap box here. Markie < still shaking my head in disblief over this one> *****$250.00***** SHAMAN APPRENTICE PROGRAM..SERIOUS ONLY! Item #271981927 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=271981927 >I am a Native American shaman, spiritualist and herbalist. > >The Shaman Program is a very elite and special Program, with daily teachings, lessons and specific instructions. It is not to be entered into lightly and I will only accept a handful of people for this Program. You will learn a great deal and experience many things. > >You will learn how to recognize, call upon and utilize the energies and powers from our animal totems to your benefit. How to use herbs and Mother Earth to heal. You will gain a greater knowledge of your own energies and spirit. These knowledges and training will transform you! > > >Lessons are transmitted by email each day. These are not computer-generated; they are one-on-one and individually tailored to your needs abilities and capabilities. You MUST be prepared to review the lessons, complete the assignments and tasks and return your "homework" to me within 24 hours each day! Any questions, please email me PRIOR to bidding. My references are always available upon request. Please...serious students only! You must be 18 or older and prove it. Will make exception for 16 and 17 year-olds with notarized parental consent. > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== Home Page: http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.htm Choctaw Chat: http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/chat.htm --WebTV-Mail-23334-6114--
Go Lillian. I do hope you have more hatchets so I can read about them. Val ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 06, 2000 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Can you believe what is on E-bay???? > > --WebTV-Mail-23334-6114 > Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit > > Halito Chahtas > Just read thru all posts and was disturbed by what Markie found on E-bay > too. I agree with Greywolf and other responses from list but must add a > few things, just my beliefs. > > SHAMAN is not an NDN word. I abhor the use of it! It is a bastardized > terminology for medicine man, woman, maker, etc. In Chahta, ours are > MAKERS and MOTHERS (Makers of Medicine and Spirit Mothers) Every tribe > has their own word for their traditional keepers and practicers of > spiritual and medicine ways and beliefs. (I will be using the word Maker > in the context of this post.) Most who use the word SHAMAN to describe > themselves are shysters or non-purveyors of the truth in Spirit. > > NEVER was money, not to mention white man's money, a form of payment for > spiritual help! A maker of medicine did not ask for payment. They would > ask for Spirits help period if the asker was of true request. A person > never went to a traditional person and asked for help without an > offering in return...but payment is another word I do not like in this > context! An offering in return was given to the person who Spirit > worked thru to help the Peoples. The gift/offering was for that person > and SPIRIT! For example...in Christian beliefs.. ie: Old Testament, only > the purest and best offerings were offered to God for sacrifice so the > smoke from the sacrifice would be pleasing to God to answer the prayers > asked. True makers of medicine never ask for payment because they have > been given a gift from Spirit and to try and capitalize on that is not > of traditional ways and beliefs. > > In regards to AIM (American Indian Movement). Yes AIM did (when started > in 1970s) and does help to work toward NDN solidarity in all > traditional, cultural and heritage beliefs and tribal structures, as do > many other organizations, such as AIR (American Indian Rights), The > Confederation of Autonomous Chapters (spin-off of AIM) and many others.. > BUT .. it's EVERY NDN's responsibility to take action against any and > all who take of our culture and heritage for their own monetary and > self-promoting gains! We can not sit idly by and allow the perpetuation > of plunder of heritages and cultures to continue, If we do we are > turning a blind eye and allowing the continuation of Removal and The > Trail of Tears! > If you witnessed the digging up of one of your family member's graves so > that the body/bones could be sold for some new age remedy for > spirituality, would you approve?.. Help them dig??? I don't think > so..... We all are keepers and protectors of our heritage and culture > ... don't depend on the watchdog groups to do what the Old Ones expect > us to do! > > People such as this person selling SNAKE OIL on E-bay can be reported to > Ndn watchdog organizations so that their e-mail address, their profile > and what they are doing can be posted on the net and linked thru out the > Indian Nations on the Net. I hope that in the not too distant future > someone will create a web site listing all the Snake OIl salespersons > and doers of so called Native American Shaman business and totem animal > finders and etc etc etc, cuz most generally there AIN"T NUTHIN" NATIVE > ABOUT IT! > > Apologies for my soap box.. I just get so angry about this kind of stuff > that I go searching for all my buried hatchets! Yokoke for your reading > this..again just my beliefs...no hurt intended to anyone!!!!!!! > <:<>:> Lillian > > > --WebTV-Mail-23334-6114 > Content-Disposition: Inline > Content-Type: Message/RFC822 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit > > Received: from mailsorter-101-11.iap.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.45) by > storefull-291.iap.bryant.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Sat, 4 Mar 2000 > 03:00:38 -0800 (PST) > Return-Path: <[email protected]> > Received: from bl-10.rootsweb.com (bl-10.rootsweb.com [204.212.38.26]) by > mailsorter-101-11.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/ms.dwm.v7+dul2) > with ESMTP id DAA29705; Sat, 4 Mar 2000 03:00:36 -0800 (PST) > Received: (from [email protected]) by bl-10.rootsweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id > CAA03664; Sat, 4 Mar 2000 02:59:36 -0800 > Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 02:59:36 -0800 > Message-Id: <[email protected]> > X-Sender: [email protected] > X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) > Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 04:54:55 -0600 > Old-To: [email protected] > From: Markie <[email protected]> > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Subject: [CHAHTA] Can you believe what is on E-bay???? > Resent-Message-ID: <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Resent-From: [email protected] > Reply-To: [email protected] > X-Mailing-List: <[email protected]> archive/latest/229 > X-Loop: [email protected] > Precedence: list > Resent-Sender: [email protected] > > Well Folks, > > I just "thought" I had seen it all... while surfing E-bay, I came across > this page. I just had to share this with "someone"... so I guess it will > be my family here. Can you believe that someone is actually "selling" > this? And what's more unbelievable is someone is "BUYING" it!! I knew > it was going on all over the country, but on > "E-BAY"??? > > E-mail Shaman?? I can't help but laugh, even tho it is not funny... it's > sad how so many people will take our native american beliefs that are held > sacred, and make money off of them. It makes me ... nukoa (mad) and > nukhaklo (sad)... the worst thing about this to me, is they probably don't > know the first thing about what they are selling.... I wouldn't be > surprised to learn the only thing this person knows is what they read from > some kooks book that they read! > > I'm sorry, just had to say this to somebody.... let me get off of my soap > box here. > > Markie < still shaking my head in disblief over this one> > > > *****$250.00***** > > SHAMAN APPRENTICE PROGRAM..SERIOUS ONLY! > Item #271981927 > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=271981927 > > >I am a Native American shaman, spiritualist and herbalist. > > > >The Shaman Program is a very elite and special Program, with daily > teachings, lessons and specific instructions. It is not to be entered into > lightly and I will only accept a handful of people for this Program. You > will learn a great deal and experience many things. > > > >You will learn how to recognize, call upon and utilize the energies and > powers from our animal totems to your benefit. How to use herbs and Mother > Earth to heal. You will gain a greater knowledge of your own energies and > spirit. These knowledges and training will transform you! > > > > > >Lessons are transmitted by email each day. These are not > computer-generated; they are one-on-one and individually tailored to your > needs abilities and capabilities. You MUST be prepared to review the > lessons, complete the assignments and tasks and return your "homework" to > me within 24 hours each day! Any questions, please email me PRIOR to > bidding. My references are always available upon request. Please...serious > students only! You must be 18 or older and prove it. Will make exception > for 16 and 17 year-olds with notarized parental consent. > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.htm > Choctaw Chat: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/chat.htm > > > --WebTV-Mail-23334-6114-- > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: > Send msg. to [email protected] > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >