Halito, Elkdreamer God certainly punished offenders prior to the "Law of Moses", ie The Flood and Sodom. I think maybe he was more of a contemporary of Abraham but your assumption is as good as mine. Colin -----Original Message----- From: Elkdreamer Wilkins [mailto:elkdremr@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 9:24 AM To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION Halito Colin I assume after the Law of Moses because there is mention of men of different citys or sect asking him question about why he was excepting the punishment's from his God. It has been some years since I have read the bible I had to look that up in my grandsons to be sure that I had the right info. Because I was pretty sure but not positive if my memory of it was correct. Walk in Beauty Elkdreamer >From: Colin Kelley <CKELLEY@swpa.gov> >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: RE: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION >Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 08:07:41 -0500 > >Halito, Elkdreamer >I guess I got lost about the point somewhere. If Job accepted it, was he >not willing? I see what you meant anyway. By the way, when did Job live? >Before or after the Law was given? > Colin Kelley > >-----Original Message----- >From: Elkdreamer Wilkins [mailto:elkdremr@hotmail.com] >Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 9:06 PM >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: RE: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > >Halito Colin >The thing about Job is every thing that happen to him was not a sacrifice >it > >was a test of his god. He accepted it but he was not a wllling participent. >Read Job 16-7 . > Walk in Beauty > Elkdreamer > > > >From: Colin Kelley <CKELLEY@swpa.gov> > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: RE: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > >Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 13:39:26 -0500 > > > >Did Job sacrifice a son? > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Patsy Caleb [mailto:studentarchaeologist@home.com] > >Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 12:11 PM > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > >The original "Thou Shalt not kill" reads "Thou shalt not kill without a > >reason" from the Lost Books of the Bible and forgotten Books of Eden" > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Jim Morrison, Jr. <jmorsn@coastalnet.com> > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 10:16 PM > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > > What "animal" gives its life freely to death? > > > The ONLY one that could is MAN (human). And even MAN does not do so > > > hesitation. Could you honestly take a child of YOUR'S and kill the >child > >as > > > an offering? For whatever the "rewards" that were promised. Could you? > > > When did Job sacarafice is son? Before or after the 10 Commandments >were > > > writen? Why? Isn't one of the Commandments "Thous Shall Not Kill"? > > > Jim > > > > > > jmorsn@coastalnet.com > > > http://www2.coastalnet.com/~g7d3j4nb/ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 7:12 AM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > > > > > good question > > > > I think that the statement, offering of his life could be > >considered > >to > > > > be like Job in the Bible he really didn't do it willing but when he > >did > > > God > > > > blessed him. Kind of like the warrior does giving thanks to the > >animal's > > > > spirit so he could feed his family. > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > >Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 09:27:28 -0500 > > > > > > > > > >I have one question here just for clarification. It doesn't mean >I'm > > > > >challenging your statement, it just means I have a question, OK? >If > >the > > > > >animal is giving an offering of it's life, why does it run away? > > > > > > > > > >dusty > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > >From: Elkdreamer Wilkins <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > >Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 5:19 AM > > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Jim > > > > > > #1 question > > > > > > Another word for the supreme being > > > > > > #2 the offering of its life > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Jim Morrison, Jr." <jmorsn@coastalnet.com> > > > > > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > >Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 01:23:34 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Two quick questions: > > > > > > >1) Who is "Grand Father"? > > > > > > >2) The ANIMAL is giving an offering when IT is killed? > > > > > > >Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > > >jmorsn@coastalnet.com > > > > > > >http://www2.coastalnet.com/~g7d3j4nb/ > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > >From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > >Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 10:36 PM > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Dennis > > > > > > > > I am sorry if I offended you in anyway. My intrest is in >all > > > > >things > > > > > > > > Choctaw. and Spirituality is one of the aspects of it. To > > > understand > > > > > > >Indian > > > > > > > > people you have to dig deep into their thought pattern. When > >they > > > > >killed > > > > > > > > animals for food and clothing they said a prayer To > >Grandfather > > > for > > > > >the > > > > > > > > offering that the animal gave and gave respect to the animal > >also. > > > > >When > > > > > > >they > > > > > > > > did beadwork they put part of their spirit in it also. when >a > > > object > > > > >was > > > > > > > > discarded it was done with respect. Spirtuality was >considered > >in > > > > >all > > > > > > >things > > > > > > > > done. That is one of the reasons that the Europeans that >came > >here > > > > > > > > misunderstood our people and their ways. > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Dennis Boswell <dennisb@primenet.com> > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > > > >Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 09:56:57 -0800 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Message for Elkdreamer and Dusty: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Regarding who subscribes to CHAHTA-L and why, permit me to > > > suggest > > > > >that > > > > > > > > >this list very likely has Choctaw and non-Choctaw > >subscribers. > > > > >Among > > > > > > >both > > > > > > > > >groups, there are those who have an exclusive interest in > > > religion > > > > >all > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > >way to those who have an exclusive interest in some other > >aspect > > > of > > > > > > >Choctaw > > > > > > > > >life but no interest at all in religion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >In my case, I find Choctaw religious beliefs and the recent > > > > >discussion > > > > > > > > >surrounding them educational and thought provoking. >However, > >my > > > > > > >personal > > > > > > > > >interest does not directly concern Choctaw religion. It is > >very > > > > >narrow > > > > > > >and > > > > > > > > >concerns central Mississippi, pre-removal Choctaw social >and > > > family > > > > > > > > >customs, very narrowly defined examples of the Choctaw > >language > > > as > > > > > > >about > > > > > > > > >1800, relationships with early white settlers, trails and > >paths > > > > > > >followed > > > > > > >by > > > > > > > > >these Choctaw in relationship to today's central >Mississippi > > > county > > > > > > > > >boundaries and the impact of removal on these same Choctaw > >with > > > > > > >specific > > > > > > > > >emphasis on the Durant Choctaw clan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >If I unsubscribe, which I will do one day (to return at a > >later > > > > >date), > > > > > > >it > > > > > > > > >will have nothing to do with whether I do or do not "learn > >other > > > > > > >religious > > > > > > > > >views," "heat in the kitchen" or "sensitive subjects." It > >will > > > have > > > > > > > > >everything to do with the fact that I subscribe to about > > > > >thirty-five > > > > > > >lists, > > > > > > > > >receive mountains of email and have priorities on my time >and > >my > > > > > > >interests > > > > > > > > >that are quite different than anyone else on this list - a > > > comment > > > > >that > > > > > > > > >about everyone of you can make. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Recognize that one of the wonderful aspects of CHAHTA-L (in > > > > >comparison > > > > > > >with > > > > > > > > >virtually all na hollo lists) is the diversity of thought, > > > > >background, > > > > > > > > >education and perspective it offers. Were I to make one > > > suggestion > > > > >to > > > > > > >those > > > > > > > > >of you who clearly dominate this list, please guard against > > > > >becoming > > > > > > >too > > > > > > > > >clannish lest the very diversity that enriches this site > >might > >in > > > > >time > > > > > > > > >vanish leaving something less in its wake than you enjoy > >today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >At 08:50 AM 03/31/2001 -0800, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >>Halito Dusty and All list members > > > > > > > > >> I believe that we all have the right to believe in the >way > > > that > > > > >we > > > > > > >want > > > > > > > > >>to. And in this aspect the right to discuss our and each > >others > > > > >views > > > > > > >in > > > > > > > > >>a intellegent and Adult way. Aparentlly the ones that left > >will > > > in > > > > >no > > > > > > >way > > > > > > > > >>ever learn that there are other views than their own. Like >I > > > have > > > > > > >always > > > > > > > > >>been told if you can't stand the heat get out of the > >kitchen. > >I > > > > >guess > > > > > > > > >>that is what they did. Lets keep up the heat I'm having >fun. > > > > > > > > >> Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > >> Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > > > >>>Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > >>>To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > >>>Subject: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > > > >>>Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 09:38:58 -0600 > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>>We lost another 5 listmembers this morning. Don't know >for > > > what > > > > > > >reason. > > > > > > > > >>>While I suspect sensitive subject matter may be the >reason, > > > this > > > > >is > > > > > > >only > > > > > > > > >>>a > > > > > > > > >>>supposition on my part. I have absolutely no objection >to > >the > > > > >topic > > > > > > > > >>>continuing if that's what you guys want. Among other > > > > >peculiarities > > > > > > >and > > > > > > > > >>>character faults, I happen to wholeheartedly support the > >First > > > > > > >Amendment > > > > > > > > >>>on > > > > > > > > >>>this particular topic. What do you guys think?? > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>>dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > >Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > > > > > >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > >http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't >post > >it > > > to > > > > >the > > > > > > >list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > > > > > > >CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > >Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > > > >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at >http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > >Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the >quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > >Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > >http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > >To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > >Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: >Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com