I like to start with the people who were there in the beginning. I like the book "Social and Ceremonial Customs of the Choctaw", I believe by Swanton. However, ceremonies and customs evolve, changing with time and situations. Talk to all the Choctaw elders you can find. It may be a good idea to let them get to know you before asking too many questions, but some are quite open to questions. Attend all the Choctaw events you can find, and read all you can find. Spirituality is a very personal and individual matter, and not everyone practices their faith and traditions alike because not everyone believes the same thing. You'll have to find what's best for you and your heart will tell you. Do what you are comfortable with and DON't do what makes you uncomfortable. If someone suggests you try new things, find out about that person and their sincerity, reputation, etc first. Ask other people what they think of that individual. Be very careful in your choice of mentors. Don't take the chance of opening yourself up to forces that you cannot control just to do the "in" thing at the moment. If it doesn't "feel" right....DON'T DO IT. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Kris Harapan <harapank@wwdb.org> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 12:20 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > I guess what I need is something to help me get more specific. I can do > legal and historical research and track down facts. What I have a hard time > with is finding a reputable source of information on Choctaw spiritual > traditions. Perhaps my first question should be what have others found to > be most helpful to them? > > Kris > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Elkdreamer Wilkins <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:27 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > Halito Kris > > How are you going to know if you know enough if you don't ask question's > > now. The only stupid question is the one not asked. Jump in and get your > > feet wet<G> > > Walk in Beauty > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > >From: "Kris Harapan" <harapank@wwdb.org> > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > >Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 17:01:56 -0700 > > > > > >Dusty, > > > > > >Not new to the list, but too new to studying my Choctaw heritage to know > > >where to begin asking questions. I have known since before I was in high > > >school that I was of NA descent. I tried to read about it then, but I > got > > >upset reading about the history of removals and broken treaties. We > lived > > >overseas and all I could get was extremely sanitized versions of history, > > >but it still made me mad. My mother took any such books away from me and > > >would not let me read about NA history again. She made quite an > > >impression. > > >I haven't lived under her roof for over 10 years, but it has taken me > this > > >long to find my way back where I first started my search. > > > > > >I may not have joined in the discussion, but I have learned from it. It > > >has > > >helped me to give my personal search some badly needed focus. > > > > > >Keep the discussion going. When I know enough to ask the right > questions, > > >I'll jump in. > > > > > >Thanks. > > > > > >Kris > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> > > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > >Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 12:58 PM > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > Kris: > > > > > > > > Are you new to this list? That's what we've been doing the last week > or > > >so. > > > > And in doing so, our list shrank from about 100 down to 68 as of this > > > > morning. In the past 10 days I've received mail that ranged from mild > > > > chiding to words that a sailor that had been to sea for seven years > > >wouldn't > > > > think of. Stick around, the subject will come back up again! <LOL> > > > > > > > > If you have questons, please ask. Someone here may be able to answer. > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Kris Harapan <harapank@wwdb.org> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 10:22 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tsana, > > > > > > > > > > I second this. Having recently begun a spiritual quest of my own, I > > >have > > > > > been looking for a forum (online and off) that would support me in > > >asking > > > > > questions, without trying to force me onto a given path. I have > just > > >left > > > > > that route behind, and would very much like to find the path that is > > >right > > > > > for me. What seems to be the hardest right now is finding a > reputable > > > > > source for guidance into exploring new areas, and having a place > where > > >it > > > > is > > > > > okay to have questions. Am open to any suggestions others might > have. > > > > > > > > > > I know the recent discussions have been a bit hard on some, but I > have > > > > found > > > > > it to be quite helpful. I know concern has been expressed about > using > > > > this > > > > > forum for spiritual discussions, what would be the possibility of > > >having > > >a > > > > > list for discussion of traditional Choctaw beliefs, the impact of > > >outside > > > > > religions on those beliefs, and how this impacts their descendents > > >today? > > > > > Would their be enough interest to support something like that? > > > > > > > > > > Kris > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Tsa na Jordan <medicgirl78@yahoo.com> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 9:52 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Barbara, > > > > > > I, like, Patsy, beg to differ. The only difference, it seems, > > > > between > > > > > > you and I is that you had a chance to grow up with and learn the > > >Choctaw > > > > > > > > > > culture from your family, elders, etc. I, on the other hand, did > > >not > > > > have > > > > > > that luxury. Now, it's no fault of mine, nor of my family. They > > >did > > > > what > > > > > > they thought best for the family at the time. OK, so does that > mean > > > > that > > > > > I > > > > > > am not as interested? NO. Does that mean that I can't learn a > lot > > > > about > > > > > it > > > > > > from the internet, books, elders, other tribal members, etc.? NO. > > >Does > > > > > it > > > > > > mean that I can become as knowledgable as you who grew up with it? > > >YES. > > > > > I > > > > > > will probably never know all that you do, nor will that bother me. > > >I > > > > want > > > > > > to learn my family's history and culture. Does it mean that I may > > >adopt > > > > > > some of the beliefs I learn about? PROBABLY since I've already > > >adopted > > > > > some > > > > > > of the Cherokee beliefs. Does it mean that you are a better > > >"Indian" > > > > than > > > > > > I? NOPE. Does it mean that you are a better person, in general, > > >than > > > > I? > > > > > > NOPE. > > > > > > I would appreciate your sharing some of the ways of the > Choctaw > > > > since > > > > > > you are so educated in those ways. Now, I'm fully aware that > there > > >are > > > > > some > > > > > > things that simply aren't meant to be on the internet, and I > respect > > > > that. > > > > > > So, sister, I lay down my bundle of tobacco beside you and ask in > a > > >good > > > > > > way - will you help me learn? I ask this with all respect. But, > > >with > > > > the > > > > > > same respect I'm also saying that I don't want to debate or argue. > > >If > > > > > > you're willing to sharing information, I'm your sponge, here to > soak > > >it > > > > > all > > > > > > up! > > > > > > Thanks, Barbara! > > > > > > Tsana > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Patsy Caleb <studentarchaeologist@home.com> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:12 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can i disagree to that because the more i learn about my choctaw > > > > > heritage > > > > > > > the more spiritual i become > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:49 AM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not > something > > >we > > > > > went > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is > > >born > > >in > > > > > us > > > > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded > by > > >a > > > > > white > > > > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some > > >things, > > > > > but > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their > attempts > > >to > > > > > put > > > > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, > is > > >at > > > > > best > > > > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > > > > B. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > > > > everyone's > > > > > > > > slings > > > > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just > > >think > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. > I've > > >had > > > > > > > > countless > > > > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, > as > > >long > > > > > as > > > > > > > it's > > > > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways > > >because > > > > it > > > > > > > works > > > > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > > > > derogatory > > > > > > > name. > > > > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to > do > > >so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so > exclusive? > > > > > Isn't > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no > > >Indian > > > > > blood > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" > without > > >the > > > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > >quotes > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the > > >quotes > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > >Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the > > >list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > > >CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Choctaw Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ >