My daddy said his father would say to anyone who did not properly address an adult, "boy, you better put a handle to that name." Fay ----- Original Message ----- From: Elkdreamer Wilkins <elkdremr@hotmail.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > opp's or Aunte > Walk in Beauty > Elkdreamer > > >From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > >Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 18:38:33 -0500 > > > >Good for you, Fay! I cannot STAND children who call elders by their first > >name or don't say Maam/Sir. > > > >dusty > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: faynshep <faynshep@telapex.com> > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 3:06 PM > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > I don't know if good manners are Indian ways or southern ways, but I > >raised > > > my children up to say yes mam and no sir, etc. One of mine came home > >from > > > school one day and said to me "what". I asked her if I needed to wash > >out > > > her mouth or her ears and asked did she speak to her teachers that way > >to > > > which she responded, "Ms. Jones doesn't want me to call her Mam" to > >which > >I > > > said "Ms Jones can have no manners if she wishes but that option is not > >open > > > to you, you will call anyone that is 20 years older than you mam or > >sir." > > > Fay > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Linda Branum <mamalin@1s.net> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 9:56 AM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > All is well put thats for sure. I have always tried to teach my > >children > > > > to say Yes Sir and No Sir and Yes Mame and No Mame.( Boy I don't think > >I > > > > spelled that right <):-) > > > > Some people think thats not right but to always respect your ELDERS > >is > > > what > > > > I have always been taught. My Dad taught me that and I do love him for > > > that. > > > > There are so many children who don't say that I have always been > >told > > > that > > > > my children were so polite and I feel that me teaching them that my > >Father > > > > taught me is why they feel that way about my children. > > > > Linda > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 11:13 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > Makes perfect sense. Very similar to the way I was raised. The > >fact > > > that > > > > > we were "Indian" was hardly ever brought up. I can't remember ever > > > being > > > > > told that something was the "Indian" way to act....just the "right" > >way > > > to > > > > > act. > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Tsa na Jordan <medicgirl78@yahoo.com> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 11:13 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know, as I look back on my "raising", I see that even though > >we > > > were > > > > > > told that we were Cherokee/Choctaw, we weren't given the religous > > > > culture > > > > > in > > > > > > detail, but we were raised to follow the general Indian beliefs. > >Such > > > > as: > > > > > > environmental protection, respect to animals, and respect of > >elders. > > > I > > > > > had > > > > > > always thought of these as general "good ethics", but the more I > >look > > > at > > > > > > people and the older I get, I realize that these were taught to me > > > > because > > > > > > they were taught to my father, and his father, and his father, > >etc. > > > > They > > > > > > were a "way of life" not something that my elders really thought > > > about, > > > > > just > > > > > > the way they had lived and those before them had lived. Does this > > > make > > > > > > sense? I'm not so good at putting this stuff down in black and > >white. > > > > > > Take care and go safely! > > > > > > Tsana > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 9:32 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dusty one of the things I see as I am out and about doing shows > >and > > > > > > talking > > > > > > > to people is those people who connect with their long ago > >indigenous > > > > > > > Ancestors seem to have a better grasp of taking care of > >community > > > and > > > > > the > > > > > > > Earth.It is those who can't seem to find the connection that > >have > >a > > > > > > problem > > > > > > > with hearing. Arla > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 4:10 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem seems to be, with people who have no Indian blood, > > > > getting > > > > > > > them > > > > > > > > to LISTEN. The native people of this country are far more in > >tune > > > > > with > > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > is going on re this continent than the invaders, but those who > >are > > > > all > > > > > > > into > > > > > > > > technology and the worship of man's knowledge rather than Gods > > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > > seem to screw everything up and then wonder what happened to > >make > > > > > > things > > > > > > > go > > > > > > > > wrong. IMHO > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 2:01 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those who have grown up in Indian communities but seem to > >have > > > no > > > > > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > > > of their own spirituality are still aware of something > >inside > > > > that > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > different, even if they don't know what it is.(Because of > >the > > > > thick > > > > > > > > > assimilation) > > > > > > > > > And it is my hope that more of our people will recognise > >that > >we > > > > are > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > "second class" and that our spirituality is not just a > >matter > >of > > > > > > > > "beliefs", > > > > > > > > > and that it is not "inferior" to the spirituality any other > >race > > > > of > > > > > > > > > people...It is also my hope that those non-Indians who can > >learn > > > a > > > > > > > better > > > > > > > > > way of living in balance from Indians, or whoever, will do > >so... > > > > > > > > > B. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > From: "Gemma West" <gemmawest@usa.net> > > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:35 PM > > > > > > > > > Subject: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander > >through > > > > life > > > > > > > > trying > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they > >don't > > > > fit > > > > > > in. > > > > > > > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's > > > > > defintions > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person > >decides > >to > > > > > look > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel > > > > comfortable. > > > > > > It > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological > > > > > characteristics. > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The > >sad > > > > > thing > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow > >up > > > > around > > > > > > > > Indians > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing > >is > > > > > > finding > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > few > > > > > > > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share > > > > knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the > >community > >it > > > > > > causes > > > > > > > us > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are > > > they > > > > > here > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > get? > > > > > > > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing > > > about > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > reverse > > > > > > > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to > >re-embrace > > > > our > > > > > > own > > > > > > > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had > >to > > > live > > > > > > with. > > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new > > > > generations. > > > > > > If > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a > >great > > > > > thing. > > > > > > > > > After > > > > > > > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in > >a > > > > world > > > > > > > shaped > > > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with > >principles > > > of > > > > > > > > balance. > > > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we > >do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not > > > something > > > > > we > > > > > > > went > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it > >is > > > > born > > > > > in > > > > > > > us > > > > > > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised > >surrounded > > > by > > > > a > > > > > > > white > > > > > > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us > >some > > > > > things, > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their > > > attempts > > > > > to > > > > > > > put > > > > > > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to > >speak, > > > is > > > > at > > > > > > > best > > > > > > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > > > > > > B. > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear > >to > > > > > > everyone's > > > > > > > > > > slings > > > > > > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but > >just > > > > > think > > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. > > > I've > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > countless > > > > > > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you > >have, > > > as > > > > > long > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > it's > > > > > > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our > >ways > > > > > because > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > works > > > > > > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > > > > > > derogatory > > > > > > > > > name. > > > > > > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant > >to > > > do > > > > > so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so > > > exclusive? > > > > > > > Isn't > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no > > > > Indian > > > > > > > blood > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail > >list: > > > > > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" > > > without > > > > > the > > > > > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off > >signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages > >at > > > > > > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at > > > > > > > http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" > >without > > > the > > > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post > >it > > > to > > > > > the > > > > > > > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > > > > > > > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information. Visit Rusty Lang's pages at > > > > > > http://www.choctaw-web.com for articles, censuses, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > >quotes > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the > >quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > >To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > >Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Need more CHOCTAW information. Visit Rusty Lang's pages at http://www.choctaw-web.com for articles, censuses, etc. >