Thanks Dusty. Kris ----- Original Message ----- From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > I like to start with the people who were there in the beginning. I like the > book "Social and Ceremonial Customs of the Choctaw", I believe by Swanton. > > However, ceremonies and customs evolve, changing with time and situations. > Talk to all the Choctaw elders you can find. It may be a good idea to let > them get to know you before asking too many questions, but some are quite > open to questions. > > Attend all the Choctaw events you can find, and read all you can find. > Spirituality is a very personal and individual matter, and not everyone > practices their faith and traditions alike because not everyone believes the > same thing. You'll have to find what's best for you and your heart will > tell you. Do what you are comfortable with and DON't do what makes you > uncomfortable. > > If someone suggests you try new things, find out about that person and their > sincerity, reputation, etc first. Ask other people what they think of that > individual. Be very careful in your choice of mentors. Don't take the > chance of opening yourself up to forces that you cannot control just to do > the "in" thing at the moment. If it doesn't "feel" right....DON'T DO IT. > > dusty > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kris Harapan <harapank@wwdb.org> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 12:20 AM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > I guess what I need is something to help me get more specific. I can do > > legal and historical research and track down facts. What I have a hard > time > > with is finding a reputable source of information on Choctaw spiritual > > traditions. Perhaps my first question should be what have others found to > > be most helpful to them? > > > > Kris > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Elkdreamer Wilkins <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:27 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > Halito Kris > > > How are you going to know if you know enough if you don't ask > question's > > > now. The only stupid question is the one not asked. Jump in and get your > > > feet wet<G> > > > Walk in Beauty > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Kris Harapan" <harapank@wwdb.org> > > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > >Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 17:01:56 -0700 > > > > > > > >Dusty, > > > > > > > >Not new to the list, but too new to studying my Choctaw heritage to > know > > > >where to begin asking questions. I have known since before I was in > high > > > >school that I was of NA descent. I tried to read about it then, but I > > got > > > >upset reading about the history of removals and broken treaties. We > > lived > > > >overseas and all I could get was extremely sanitized versions of > history, > > > >but it still made me mad. My mother took any such books away from me > and > > > >would not let me read about NA history again. She made quite an > > > >impression. > > > >I haven't lived under her roof for over 10 years, but it has taken me > > this > > > >long to find my way back where I first started my search. > > > > > > > >I may not have joined in the discussion, but I have learned from it. > It > > > >has > > > >helped me to give my personal search some badly needed focus. > > > > > > > >Keep the discussion going. When I know enough to ask the right > > questions, > > > >I'll jump in. > > > > > > > >Thanks. > > > > > > > >Kris > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > >Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 12:58 PM > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kris: > > > > > > > > > > Are you new to this list? That's what we've been doing the last > week > > or > > > >so. > > > > > And in doing so, our list shrank from about 100 down to 68 as of > this > > > > > morning. In the past 10 days I've received mail that ranged from > mild > > > > > chiding to words that a sailor that had been to sea for seven years > > > >wouldn't > > > > > think of. Stick around, the subject will come back up again! > <LOL> > > > > > > > > > > If you have questons, please ask. Someone here may be able to > answer. > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Kris Harapan <harapank@wwdb.org> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 10:22 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tsana, > > > > > > > > > > > > I second this. Having recently begun a spiritual quest of my own, > I > > > >have > > > > > > been looking for a forum (online and off) that would support me in > > > >asking > > > > > > questions, without trying to force me onto a given path. I have > > just > > > >left > > > > > > that route behind, and would very much like to find the path that > is > > > >right > > > > > > for me. What seems to be the hardest right now is finding a > > reputable > > > > > > source for guidance into exploring new areas, and having a place > > where > > > >it > > > > > is > > > > > > okay to have questions. Am open to any suggestions others might > > have. > > > > > > > > > > > > I know the recent discussions have been a bit hard on some, but I > > have > > > > > found > > > > > > it to be quite helpful. I know concern has been expressed about > > using > > > > > this > > > > > > forum for spiritual discussions, what would be the possibility of > > > >having > > > >a > > > > > > list for discussion of traditional Choctaw beliefs, the impact of > > > >outside > > > > > > religions on those beliefs, and how this impacts their descendents > > > >today? > > > > > > Would their be enough interest to support something like that? > > > > > > > > > > > > Kris > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Tsa na Jordan <medicgirl78@yahoo.com> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 9:52 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Barbara, > > > > > > > I, like, Patsy, beg to differ. The only difference, it > seems, > > > > > between > > > > > > > you and I is that you had a chance to grow up with and learn the > > > >Choctaw > > > > > > > > > > > > culture from your family, elders, etc. I, on the other hand, > did > > > >not > > > > > have > > > > > > > that luxury. Now, it's no fault of mine, nor of my family. > They > > > >did > > > > > what > > > > > > > they thought best for the family at the time. OK, so does that > > mean > > > > > that > > > > > > I > > > > > > > am not as interested? NO. Does that mean that I can't learn a > > lot > > > > > about > > > > > > it > > > > > > > from the internet, books, elders, other tribal members, etc.? > NO. > > > >Does > > > > > > it > > > > > > > mean that I can become as knowledgable as you who grew up with > it? > > > >YES. > > > > > > I > > > > > > > will probably never know all that you do, nor will that bother > me. > > > >I > > > > > want > > > > > > > to learn my family's history and culture. Does it mean that I > may > > > >adopt > > > > > > > some of the beliefs I learn about? PROBABLY since I've already > > > >adopted > > > > > > some > > > > > > > of the Cherokee beliefs. Does it mean that you are a better > > > >"Indian" > > > > > than > > > > > > > I? NOPE. Does it mean that you are a better person, in > general, > > > >than > > > > > I? > > > > > > > NOPE. > > > > > > > I would appreciate your sharing some of the ways of the > > Choctaw > > > > > since > > > > > > > you are so educated in those ways. Now, I'm fully aware that > > there > > > >are > > > > > > some > > > > > > > things that simply aren't meant to be on the internet, and I > > respect > > > > > that. > > > > > > > So, sister, I lay down my bundle of tobacco beside you and ask > in > > a > > > >good > > > > > > > way - will you help me learn? I ask this with all respect. > But, > > > >with > > > > > the > > > > > > > same respect I'm also saying that I don't want to debate or > argue. > > > >If > > > > > > > you're willing to sharing information, I'm your sponge, here to > > soak > > > >it > > > > > > all > > > > > > > up! > > > > > > > Thanks, Barbara! > > > > > > > Tsana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Patsy Caleb <studentarchaeologist@home.com> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:12 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can i disagree to that because the more i learn about my > choctaw > > > > > > heritage > > > > > > > > the more spiritual i become > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:49 AM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not > > something > > > >we > > > > > > went > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is > > > >born > > > >in > > > > > > us > > > > > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised > surrounded > > by > > > >a > > > > > > white > > > > > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some > > > >things, > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their > > attempts > > > >to > > > > > > put > > > > > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, > > is > > > >at > > > > > > best > > > > > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > > > > > B. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > > > > > everyone's > > > > > > > > > slings > > > > > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but > just > > > >think > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. > > I've > > > >had > > > > > > > > > countless > > > > > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, > > as > > > >long > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > it's > > > > > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways > > > >because > > > > > it > > > > > > > > works > > > > > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > > > > > derogatory > > > > > > > > name. > > > > > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant > to > > do > > > >so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so > > exclusive? > > > > > > Isn't > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no > > > >Indian > > > > > > blood > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail > list: > > > > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" > > without > > > >the > > > > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off > signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without > the > > > >quotes > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > > > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without > the > > > >quotes > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > >Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the > > > >list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > > > >CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the > > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Choctaw Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > >