You could be right. We're all here to learn. Whenever I hear something I'm not familiar with, I like to track it down. If you can remember where it was documented, let me know and I'll look. It could be true, it's just that I never heard that before> dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Linda Branum <mamalin@1s.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 12:04 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Indian Heritage > Dusty, > I am on the Gowen forum and they had a heated discussion about this. Maybe > I spoke out of turn but that was my understanding. Thats why i said if I'm > wrong to please correct me. > I don't want to pass on something that isn't true. I didn't mean anything > by it except that I thought it wasn't right that that was happening. > Sorry I didn't get back with you sooner. I have been watching movies all > day until now. > Regards,Linda > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 6:30 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Indian Heritage > > > > Linda: > > > > Where did you get the information about the blacks not being allowed to > > claim Indian blood if it was from their fathers? > > > > dusty > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Linda Branum <mamalin@1s.net> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 12:20 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Indian Heritage > > > > > > > Hi Jim, > > > I do know that in some of the papers I have on my family members. We > are > > > Choctaw but my Great Uncle William Guynes married a Chickasaw woman and > > > their children are listed in the Chickasaw rolls. > > > If I am wrong please someone correct me. William is listed as 1/2 > > Choctaw > > > and Margaret James Guynes is listed as 3/4 Chickasaw. Its my > understanding > > > that the greater Indian blood line would be who the children are listed > > > with. I have also heard that the children were listed with the mothers > > side > > > too. > > > I think that is why there is such a problem with the black ancestors > who > > > had Indian fathers. They were listed with their mother who was black and > > > can't claim their Indian rights. Does anyone know the law about this. If > I > > > stand corrected please feel free to correct me. > > > I think this is wrong to not let them have their Indian Heritage but > so > > > many things were wrong back then. > > > Linda Kirby Branum > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Jim Morrison, Jr." <jmorsn@coastalnet.com> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 4:04 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Were all Brothers and Sisters > > > > > > > > > > Hate to "nit pick", but here is MY problem with the suggestion: > > > > My great great grand mother MAY have been Chickasaw Indian from Gibson > > > > County, TN. She was born 1837. > > > > My great grand mother was almost without doubt Chocataw Indian from > > > Chambers > > > > County, AL. She was born 1856. > > > > My grand mother was suppose to have been part Cherokee Indian from > > Hayti, > > > > MO. She was born 1907. > > > > > > > > If any of these women are on any of the "Final Rolls" or any of their > > kin, > > > I > > > > have not been able to locate them!! Which "tribe" should I claim? > > > > BTW > > > > These are all my FATHER'S grand mothers. > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > jmorsn@coastalnet.com > > > > http://www2.coastalnet.com/~g7d3j4nb/ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Linda Branum" <mamalin@1s.net> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 11:11 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Were all Brothers and Sisters > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Dusty and all, > > > > > I want to say that my brother looks full blood Indian but we are > > just > > > > > 1/32. I don't look a bit like and Indian but I have the same amt of > > > blood > > > > as > > > > > he does. > > > > > I feel the amt of Indian doesn't matter. We are all brothers and > > > sisters > > > > > just some of us have proof and others don't. > > > > > I think we should all remember TOGETHER WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL. > > All > > > of > > > > > us need to unite together and stop worring about how much blood we > > have > > > > but > > > > > our people were all at one time full blood so who cares if you are > > full > > > or > > > > > just a little. You are still my sister and brother and all are NA. > > > > > Regards, Linda Kirby Branum > > > > > > > > > > (Guynes and Sain are my Indian heritage surnames) Guynes being > > Choctaw > > > > and > > > > > documented and Sain Cherokee undocumented. But I feel ancestors > > calling > > > > from > > > > > both!! > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 8:29 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gemma and all: > > > > > > > > > > > > I am intrigued and challenged by your question, "Does the > community > > > > still > > > > > > exist." I have pondered this question for many years and under > many > > > > > > different circumstances., and would like to get some feedback from > > > other > > > > > > listmembers. > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the state of the Indian community today..... > > > > > > Specifically, WHAT IS AN INDIAN? Is it a matter of blood quantum? > > > > > > Lifestyle? Beliefs? > > > > > > > > > > > > There can be no argument that there is definite predjudice among > NA > > as > > > > to > > > > > > "who is Indian" and who is not. There are "skins" and there are > > > > "bloods". > > > > > > Why the separation? What does it take to be considered "Indian > > > enough". > > > > > > Are some NAs practicing a racism they would decry in other races.? > > > > Don't > > > > > > quote me the government's definition of Indian, I'm well aware of > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > I want the opinions of others on this list. > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: David and Tommie Marsters <haili65@proaxis.com> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:30 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well put, Gemma. I agree. > > > > > > > Tommie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gemma West wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through > > life > > > > > > trying to > > > > > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't > > fit > > > > in. > > > > > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's > > > defintions > > > > of > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to > > > look > > > > to > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel > > comfortable. > > > > It > > > > > is > > > > > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological > > > characteristics. > > > > > It > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad > > > thing > > > > is > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up > > around > > > > > > Indians and > > > > > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is > > > > finding > > > > > > the few > > > > > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share > > knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it > > > > causes > > > > > us > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are > they > > > here > > > > > to > > > > > > get? > > > > > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing > about > > > > this > > > > > > reverse > > > > > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace > > our > > > > own > > > > > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to > live > > > > with. > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new > > generations. > > > > If > > > > > we > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great > > > thing. > > > > > > After > > > > > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a > > world > > > > > shaped > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles > of > > > > > > balance. It > > > > > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not > something > > > we > > > > > went > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is > > born > > > in > > > > > us > > > > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded > by > > a > > > > > white > > > > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some > > > things, > > > > > but > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their > attempts > > > to > > > > > put > > > > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, > is > > at > > > > > best > > > > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > > > > B. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > > > > everyone's > > > > > > > > slings > > > > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just > > > think > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. > I've > > > had > > > > > > > > countless > > > > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, > as > > > long > > > > > as > > > > > > it's > > > > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways > > > because > > > > it > > > > > > works > > > > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > > > > derogatory > > > > > > name. > > > > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to > do > > > so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so > exclusive? > > > > > Isn't > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no > > Indian > > > > > blood > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" > without > > > the > > > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at > > > > > http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without > the > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to > > the > > > > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > > > > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to > the > > > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > > > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

I grew up in Indonesia. Under their laws at that time, anyone of Chinese descent could not become a citizen. If the father was Chinese, women would check into hospitals under their maiden name, and put it on the child's birth certificate so that the child could be eligible for citizenship. Is it possible that since freedmen had fewer rights, the children were listed with the parent who could claim the most rights? I have a copy of a US Supreme Court case (US v. Choctaw Nation, 193 U.S. 115 (1904)) decided 02/23/1904 that determined the freedman could not receive land allotments with either the Choctaw or Chicksaw Nations. This decision upheld an 1866 treaty regarding the status of the freedman. If there were those of mixed NA descent who were trying to deny their heritage and pass as white when it was to their advantage, perhaps those descended from freedman were trying to do the same thing by claiming only part of their heritage during the enrollments. It's a guess on my part. What do others think? Kris ----- Original Message ----- From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Indian Heritage > You could be right. We're all here to learn. Whenever I hear something I'm > not familiar with, I like to track it down. If you can remember where it > was documented, let me know and I'll look. It could be true, it's just that > I never heard that before> > > dusty > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Linda Branum <mamalin@1s.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 12:04 AM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Indian Heritage > > > > Dusty, > > I am on the Gowen forum and they had a heated discussion about this. > Maybe > > I spoke out of turn but that was my understanding. Thats why i said if I'm > > wrong to please correct me. > > I don't want to pass on something that isn't true. I didn't mean > anything > > by it except that I thought it wasn't right that that was happening. > > Sorry I didn't get back with you sooner. I have been watching movies all > > day until now. > > Regards,Linda > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 6:30 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Indian Heritage > > > > > > > Linda: > > > > > > Where did you get the information about the blacks not being allowed to > > > claim Indian blood if it was from their fathers? > > > > > > dusty > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Linda Branum <mamalin@1s.net> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 12:20 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Indian Heritage > > > > > > > > > > Hi Jim, > > > > I do know that in some of the papers I have on my family members. We > > are > > > > Choctaw but my Great Uncle William Guynes married a Chickasaw woman > and > > > > their children are listed in the Chickasaw rolls. > > > > If I am wrong please someone correct me. William is listed as 1/2 > > > Choctaw > > > > and Margaret James Guynes is listed as 3/4 Chickasaw. Its my > > understanding > > > > that the greater Indian blood line would be who the children are > listed > > > > with. I have also heard that the children were listed with the mothers > > > side > > > > too. > > > > I think that is why there is such a problem with the black ancestors > > who > > > > had Indian fathers. They were listed with their mother who was black > and > > > > can't claim their Indian rights. Does anyone know the law about this. > If > > I > > > > stand corrected please feel free to correct me. > > > > I think this is wrong to not let them have their Indian Heritage but > > so > > > > many things were wrong back then. > > > > Linda Kirby Branum > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Jim Morrison, Jr." <jmorsn@coastalnet.com> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 4:04 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Were all Brothers and Sisters > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hate to "nit pick", but here is MY problem with the suggestion: > > > > > My great great grand mother MAY have been Chickasaw Indian from > Gibson > > > > > County, TN. She was born 1837. > > > > > My great grand mother was almost without doubt Chocataw Indian from > > > > Chambers > > > > > County, AL. She was born 1856. > > > > > My grand mother was suppose to have been part Cherokee Indian from > > > Hayti, > > > > > MO. She was born 1907. > > > > > > > > > > If any of these women are on any of the "Final Rolls" or any of > their > > > kin, > > > > I > > > > > have not been able to locate them!! Which "tribe" should I claim? > > > > > BTW > > > > > These are all my FATHER'S grand mothers. > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > jmorsn@coastalnet.com > > > > > http://www2.coastalnet.com/~g7d3j4nb/ > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Linda Branum" <mamalin@1s.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 11:11 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Were all Brothers and Sisters > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Dusty and all, > > > > > > I want to say that my brother looks full blood Indian but we are > > > just > > > > > > 1/32. I don't look a bit like and Indian but I have the same amt > of > > > > blood > > > > > as > > > > > > he does. > > > > > > I feel the amt of Indian doesn't matter. We are all brothers and > > > > sisters > > > > > > just some of us have proof and others don't. > > > > > > I think we should all remember TOGETHER WE STAND DIVIDED WE > FALL. > > > All > > > > of > > > > > > us need to unite together and stop worring about how much blood we > > > have > > > > > but > > > > > > our people were all at one time full blood so who cares if you are > > > full > > > > or > > > > > > just a little. You are still my sister and brother and all are NA. > > > > > > Regards, Linda Kirby Branum > > > > > > > > > > > > (Guynes and Sain are my Indian heritage surnames) Guynes being > > > Choctaw > > > > > and > > > > > > documented and Sain Cherokee undocumented. But I feel ancestors > > > calling > > > > > from > > > > > > both!! > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 8:29 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gemma and all: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am intrigued and challenged by your question, "Does the > > community > > > > > still > > > > > > > exist." I have pondered this question for many years and under > > many > > > > > > > different circumstances., and would like to get some feedback > from > > > > other > > > > > > > listmembers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the state of the Indian community today..... > > > > > > > Specifically, WHAT IS AN INDIAN? Is it a matter of blood > quantum? > > > > > > > Lifestyle? Beliefs? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There can be no argument that there is definite predjudice among > > NA > > > as > > > > > to > > > > > > > "who is Indian" and who is not. There are "skins" and there are > > > > > "bloods". > > > > > > > Why the separation? What does it take to be considered "Indian > > > > enough". > > > > > > > Are some NAs practicing a racism they would decry in other > races.? > > > > > Don't > > > > > > > quote me the government's definition of Indian, I'm well aware > of > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want the opinions of others on this list. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: David and Tommie Marsters <haili65@proaxis.com> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:30 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well put, Gemma. I agree. > > > > > > > > Tommie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gemma West wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander > through > > > life > > > > > > > trying to > > > > > > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they > don't > > > fit > > > > > in. > > > > > > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's > > > > defintions > > > > > of > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides > to > > > > look > > > > > to > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel > > > comfortable. > > > > > It > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological > > > > characteristics. > > > > > > It > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The > sad > > > > thing > > > > > is > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up > > > around > > > > > > > Indians and > > > > > > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing > is > > > > > finding > > > > > > > the few > > > > > > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share > > > knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community > it > > > > > causes > > > > > > us > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are > > they > > > > here > > > > > > to > > > > > > > get? > > > > > > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing > > about > > > > > this > > > > > > > reverse > > > > > > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to > re-embrace > > > our > > > > > own > > > > > > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to > > live > > > > > with. > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new > > > generations. > > > > > If > > > > > > we > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a > great > > > > thing. > > > > > > > After > > > > > > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a > > > world > > > > > > shaped > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with > principles > > of > > > > > > > balance. It > > > > > > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not > > something > > > > we > > > > > > went > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is > > > born > > > > in > > > > > > us > > > > > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised > surrounded > > by > > > a > > > > > > white > > > > > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some > > > > things, > > > > > > but > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their > > attempts > > > > to > > > > > > put > > > > > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, > > is > > > at > > > > > > best > > > > > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > > > > > B. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > > > > > everyone's > > > > > > > > > slings > > > > > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but > just > > > > think > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. > > I've > > > > had > > > > > > > > > countless > > > > > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, > > as > > > > long > > > > > > as > > > > > > > it's > > > > > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways > > > > because > > > > > it > > > > > > > works > > > > > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > > > > > derogatory > > > > > > > name. > > > > > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant > to > > do > > > > so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so > > exclusive? > > > > > > Isn't > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no > > > Indian > > > > > > blood > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail > list: > > > > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" > > without > > > > the > > > > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off > signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at > > > > > > http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without > > the > > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it > to > > > the > > > > > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > > > > > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to > > the > > > > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > > > > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > >