Gosh... I don't know for sure just read this somewhere. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tsa na Jordan" <medicgirl78@yahoo.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 12:05 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Indian Heritage > Linda and Dusty, > Linda, are you referring to the matriarchal (sp?) society? That's the > way I understood your message, but don't know. > Tsana > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 6:30 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Indian Heritage > > > > Linda: > > > > Where did you get the information about the blacks not being allowed to > > claim Indian blood if it was from their fathers? > > > > dusty > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Linda Branum <mamalin@1s.net> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 12:20 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Indian Heritage > > > > > > > Hi Jim, > > > I do know that in some of the papers I have on my family members. We > are > > > Choctaw but my Great Uncle William Guynes married a Chickasaw woman and > > > their children are listed in the Chickasaw rolls. > > > If I am wrong please someone correct me. William is listed as 1/2 > > Choctaw > > > and Margaret James Guynes is listed as 3/4 Chickasaw. Its my > understanding > > > that the greater Indian blood line would be who the children are listed > > > with. I have also heard that the children were listed with the mothers > > side > > > too. > > > I think that is why there is such a problem with the black ancestors > who > > > had Indian fathers. They were listed with their mother who was black and > > > can't claim their Indian rights. Does anyone know the law about this. If > I > > > stand corrected please feel free to correct me. > > > I think this is wrong to not let them have their Indian Heritage but > so > > > many things were wrong back then. > > > Linda Kirby Branum > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Jim Morrison, Jr." <jmorsn@coastalnet.com> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 4:04 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Were all Brothers and Sisters > > > > > > > > > > Hate to "nit pick", but here is MY problem with the suggestion: > > > > My great great grand mother MAY have been Chickasaw Indian from Gibson > > > > County, TN. She was born 1837. > > > > My great grand mother was almost without doubt Chocataw Indian from > > > Chambers > > > > County, AL. She was born 1856. > > > > My grand mother was suppose to have been part Cherokee Indian from > > Hayti, > > > > MO. She was born 1907. > > > > > > > > If any of these women are on any of the "Final Rolls" or any of their > > kin, > > > I > > > > have not been able to locate them!! Which "tribe" should I claim? > > > > BTW > > > > These are all my FATHER'S grand mothers. > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > jmorsn@coastalnet.com > > > > http://www2.coastalnet.com/~g7d3j4nb/ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Linda Branum" <mamalin@1s.net> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 11:11 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Were all Brothers and Sisters > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Dusty and all, > > > > > I want to say that my brother looks full blood Indian but we are > > just > > > > > 1/32. I don't look a bit like and Indian but I have the same amt of > > > blood > > > > as > > > > > he does. > > > > > I feel the amt of Indian doesn't matter. We are all brothers and > > > sisters > > > > > just some of us have proof and others don't. > > > > > I think we should all remember TOGETHER WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL. > > All > > > of > > > > > us need to unite together and stop worring about how much blood we > > have > > > > but > > > > > our people were all at one time full blood so who cares if you are > > full > > > or > > > > > just a little. You are still my sister and brother and all are NA. > > > > > Regards, Linda Kirby Branum > > > > > > > > > > (Guynes and Sain are my Indian heritage surnames) Guynes being > > Choctaw > > > > and > > > > > documented and Sain Cherokee undocumented. But I feel ancestors > > calling > > > > from > > > > > both!! > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 8:29 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gemma and all: > > > > > > > > > > > > I am intrigued and challenged by your question, "Does the > community > > > > still > > > > > > exist." I have pondered this question for many years and under > many > > > > > > different circumstances., and would like to get some feedback from > > > other > > > > > > listmembers. > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the state of the Indian community today..... > > > > > > Specifically, WHAT IS AN INDIAN? Is it a matter of blood quantum? > > > > > > Lifestyle? Beliefs? > > > > > > > > > > > > There can be no argument that there is definite predjudice among > NA > > as > > > > to > > > > > > "who is Indian" and who is not. There are "skins" and there are > > > > "bloods". > > > > > > Why the separation? What does it take to be considered "Indian > > > enough". > > > > > > Are some NAs practicing a racism they would decry in other races.? > > > > Don't > > > > > > quote me the government's definition of Indian, I'm well aware of > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > I want the opinions of others on this list. > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: David and Tommie Marsters <haili65@proaxis.com> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:30 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well put, Gemma. I agree. > > > > > > > Tommie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gemma West wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through > > life > > > > > > trying to > > > > > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't > > fit > > > > in. > > > > > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's > > > defintions > > > > of > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to > > > look > > > > to > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel > > comfortable. > > > > It > > > > > is > > > > > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological > > > characteristics. > > > > > It > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad > > > thing > > > > is > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up > > around > > > > > > Indians and > > > > > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is > > > > finding > > > > > > the few > > > > > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share > > knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it > > > > causes > > > > > us > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are > they > > > here > > > > > to > > > > > > get? > > > > > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing > about > > > > this > > > > > > reverse > > > > > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace > > our > > > > own > > > > > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to > live > > > > with. > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new > > generations. > > > > If > > > > > we > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great > > > thing. > > > > > > After > > > > > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a > > world > > > > > shaped > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles > of > > > > > > balance. It > > > > > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not > something > > > we > > > > > went > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is > > born > > > in > > > > > us > > > > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded > by > > a > > > > > white > > > > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some > > > things, > > > > > but > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their > attempts > > > to > > > > > put > > > > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, > is > > at > > > > > best > > > > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > > > > B. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > > > > everyone's > > > > > > > > slings > > > > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just > > > think > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. > I've > > > had > > > > > > > > countless > > > > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, > as > > > long > > > > > as > > > > > > it's > > > > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways > > > because > > > > it > > > > > > works > > > > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > > > > derogatory > > > > > > name. > > > > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to > do > > > so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so > exclusive? > > > > > Isn't > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no > > Indian > > > > > blood > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" > without > > > the > > > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at > > > > > http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without > the > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to > > the > > > > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > > > > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to > the > > > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > > > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >