Hi Tsana, Maybe that the reason the gov did what they did if we were all together we would have had a lot more strength to over power them. If they scattered out our people they had a much better chance. Our people were sent to another land they didn't know and were like sheep in a field. They didn't know their land and didn't have any protection. With less people to withstand the terror they must have felt it made them feel like little lambs. I do know they did the best they could and should be given the PRAISE they deserve. Thats why I am searching so hard for my ancestors. I want so bad to find out where they migrated from. I know they moved to Okla Indian Territory in the mid 1880's from somewhere in Texas but I want to know where my GGGrandfather and GGGrandMother migrated from. I know it had to be from La. or Mississippi but I'm not for sure. It breaks my heart to think what the goverment put our ancestors thru to make them leave their homelands during the winter. It was so hot in that area and Okla is much colder that the Southern States. Our people didn't know what winter was I don't think till they hit Okla Indian Territory. I really get upset to know they were taken from their land and moved, some didn't even have blankets. My heart crys out to our ancestors and I give them all the PRAISE for their courage. Regards, Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tsa na Jordan" <medicgirl78@yahoo.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 11:41 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Were all Brothers and Sisters > Linda, > You are sooo right. In fact, we all know, if we look at history, that's > one of the problems the Indians had. Had they banned together, they could > have done better. But, they were divided and easy conquering for the > whites. Just thoughts and my own opinion. > Take care and go safely! > Tsana > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Linda Branum <mamalin@1s.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:11 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Were all Brothers and Sisters > > > > Hi Dusty and all, > > I want to say that my brother looks full blood Indian but we are just > > 1/32. I don't look a bit like and Indian but I have the same amt of blood > as > > he does. > > I feel the amt of Indian doesn't matter. We are all brothers and sisters > > just some of us have proof and others don't. > > I think we should all remember TOGETHER WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL. All of > > us need to unite together and stop worring about how much blood we have > but > > our people were all at one time full blood so who cares if you are full or > > just a little. You are still my sister and brother and all are NA. > > Regards, Linda Kirby Branum > > > > (Guynes and Sain are my Indian heritage surnames) Guynes being Choctaw > and > > documented and Sain Cherokee undocumented. But I feel ancestors calling > from > > both!! > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 8:29 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > Gemma and all: > > > > > > I am intrigued and challenged by your question, "Does the community > still > > > exist." I have pondered this question for many years and under many > > > different circumstances., and would like to get some feedback from other > > > listmembers. > > > > > > What is the state of the Indian community today..... > > > Specifically, WHAT IS AN INDIAN? Is it a matter of blood quantum? > > > Lifestyle? Beliefs? > > > > > > There can be no argument that there is definite predjudice among NA as > to > > > "who is Indian" and who is not. There are "skins" and there are > "bloods". > > > Why the separation? What does it take to be considered "Indian enough". > > > Are some NAs practicing a racism they would decry in other races.? > Don't > > > quote me the government's definition of Indian, I'm well aware of that. > > > > > > I want the opinions of others on this list. > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: David and Tommie Marsters <haili65@proaxis.com> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:30 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > Well put, Gemma. I agree. > > > > Tommie > > > > > > > > Gemma West wrote: > > > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > > > trying to > > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit > in. > > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions > of > > > good > > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look > to > > > their > > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. > It > > is > > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. > > It > > > is > > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing > is > > > that > > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > > > Indians and > > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is > finding > > > the few > > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it > causes > > us > > > to > > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they here > > to > > > get? > > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about > this > > > reverse > > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our > own > > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live > with. > > > This > > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. > If > > we > > > can > > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great thing. > > > After > > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world > > shaped > > > by > > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > > > balance. It > > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we > > went > > > to > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in > > us > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a > > white > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, > > but > > > they > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to > > put > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at > > best > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > B. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > everyone's > > > > > slings > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think > > > our > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > > > > > countless > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long > > as > > > it's > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because > it > > > works > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > derogatory > > > name. > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? > > Isn't > > > that > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian > > blood > > > at > > > > > all > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > > quotes > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at > > http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > quotes > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

Linda, I hope you don't think that I was putting our ancestors down! I wasn't and I also, am proud of their courage and the strife they lived through. But, I was just stating simple fact. Of course, as I said in another message, hindsight is 20/20. What would I have done in their shoes? Can't say! Yes, I agree with you that they had, as my granny would say "a lot of moxy" (sp?)! Tsana ----- Original Message ----- From: Linda Branum <mamalin@1s.net> To: Tsa na Jordan <medicgirl78@yahoo.com>; <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 11:47 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Were all Brothers and Sisters > Hi Tsana, > Maybe that the reason the gov did what they did if we were all together we > would have had a lot more strength to over power them. If they scattered out > our people they had a much better chance. > Our people were sent to another land they didn't know and were like sheep > in a field. They didn't know their land and didn't have any protection. With > less people to withstand the terror they must have felt it made them feel > like little lambs. I do know they did the best they could and should be > given the PRAISE they deserve. > Thats why I am searching so hard for my ancestors. I want so bad to find > out where they migrated from. I know they moved to Okla Indian Territory in > the mid 1880's from somewhere in Texas but I want to know where my > GGGrandfather and GGGrandMother migrated from. > I know it had to be from La. or Mississippi but I'm not for sure. > It breaks my heart to think what the goverment put our ancestors thru to > make them leave their homelands during the winter. It was so hot in that > area and Okla is much colder that the Southern States. Our people didn't > know what winter was I don't think till they hit Okla Indian Territory. > I really get upset to know they were taken from their land and moved, > some didn't even have blankets. My heart crys out to our ancestors and I > give them all the PRAISE for their courage. > Regards, Linda > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tsa na Jordan" <medicgirl78@yahoo.com> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 11:41 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Were all Brothers and Sisters > > > > Linda, > > You are sooo right. In fact, we all know, if we look at history, > that's > > one of the problems the Indians had. Had they banned together, they could > > have done better. But, they were divided and easy conquering for the > > whites. Just thoughts and my own opinion. > > Take care and go safely! > > Tsana > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Linda Branum <mamalin@1s.net> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:11 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Were all Brothers and Sisters > > > > > > > Hi Dusty and all, > > > I want to say that my brother looks full blood Indian but we are just > > > 1/32. I don't look a bit like and Indian but I have the same amt of > blood > > as > > > he does. > > > I feel the amt of Indian doesn't matter. We are all brothers and > sisters > > > just some of us have proof and others don't. > > > I think we should all remember TOGETHER WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL. All > of > > > us need to unite together and stop worring about how much blood we have > > but > > > our people were all at one time full blood so who cares if you are full > or > > > just a little. You are still my sister and brother and all are NA. > > > Regards, Linda Kirby Branum > > > > > > (Guynes and Sain are my Indian heritage surnames) Guynes being Choctaw > > and > > > documented and Sain Cherokee undocumented. But I feel ancestors calling > > from > > > both!! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 8:29 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > Gemma and all: > > > > > > > > I am intrigued and challenged by your question, "Does the community > > still > > > > exist." I have pondered this question for many years and under many > > > > different circumstances., and would like to get some feedback from > other > > > > listmembers. > > > > > > > > What is the state of the Indian community today..... > > > > Specifically, WHAT IS AN INDIAN? Is it a matter of blood quantum? > > > > Lifestyle? Beliefs? > > > > > > > > There can be no argument that there is definite predjudice among NA as > > to > > > > "who is Indian" and who is not. There are "skins" and there are > > "bloods". > > > > Why the separation? What does it take to be considered "Indian > enough". > > > > Are some NAs practicing a racism they would decry in other races.? > > Don't > > > > quote me the government's definition of Indian, I'm well aware of > that. > > > > > > > > I want the opinions of others on this list. > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: David and Tommie Marsters <haili65@proaxis.com> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:30 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well put, Gemma. I agree. > > > > > Tommie > > > > > > > > > > Gemma West wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > > > > trying to > > > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit > > in. > > > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's > defintions > > of > > > > good > > > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to > look > > to > > > > their > > > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. > > It > > > is > > > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological > characteristics. > > > It > > > > is > > > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad > thing > > is > > > > that > > > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > > > > Indians and > > > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is > > finding > > > > the few > > > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it > > causes > > > us > > > > to > > > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they > here > > > to > > > > get? > > > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about > > this > > > > reverse > > > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our > > own > > > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live > > with. > > > > This > > > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. > > If > > > we > > > > can > > > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great > thing. > > > > After > > > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world > > > shaped > > > > by > > > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > > > > balance. It > > > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something > we > > > went > > > > to > > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born > in > > > us > > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a > > > white > > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some > things, > > > but > > > > they > > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts > to > > > put > > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at > > > best > > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > > B. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > > everyone's > > > > > > slings > > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just > think > > > > our > > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've > had > > > > > > countless > > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as > long > > > as > > > > it's > > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways > because > > it > > > > works > > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > > derogatory > > > > name. > > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do > so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? > > > Isn't > > > > that > > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian > > > blood > > > > at > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without > the > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at > > > http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > quotes > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the > > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com