I wrote the previous posting based on my memory of earlier reading, so I went back to those sources to clarify. One of these is INDIANS OF THE SOUTHEAST UNITED STATES and the other is SOURCE MATERIAL FOR THE SOCIAL AND CEREMONIAL LIFE OF THE CHOCTAW. Both are by John Swanton but quote extensively from the writings of early European travelers through the southeast. To answer your question aobut how early the information applies, the earliest of these travelers was in the mid 1700s. As for the relative location of the different dwellings, it seems I had made a slight leap of deduction in my memory. There are passages describing both the round and the rectangular styles as being used by the Choctaw, as well as the Chickasaw, Creek, Alabama, and other southeastern tribes. The passages about the Chickasaw and Creek mention that each family group had both of these different types of dwellings (as well as additional structures for storage and/or living quarters) in close proxi mity to each other, forming a small "courtyard" in the middle. Of the passages that refer specifically to the Choctaw, some describe the rectangular type (calling it the "summer house") and some describe the circular type (calling it the "hot house" or "winter house"), but none of them explicitly state that both types were built concurrently by the same family group. Swanton deduces that, since the descriptions of the structures are essentially the same between the various accounts of the different tribes, the arrangement of the multiple types in proximity to each other would also be the same even though it's not explicitly stated. Each of the accounts is by a different person, who probably all visited different Choctaw villages, so I suppose it would also be reasonable to assume that the different types of structures were not used by the same family groups. The circular type may have simply been used by Choctaws in northern districts climate, while the rectangular type was used by Choctaws in southern regions. Since neither arrangement is specifically described, we can't be certain either way. Okay, I guess this post is long enough. I hope this info is useful. I suggest you go to the sources I mentioned if you can. SOURCE MATERIAL...CHOCTAW is rather hard to find, but INDIANS OF THE SOUTHEASTERN U.S. might very well be in your local public library (and it has illustrations). --Sean -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Boswell [SMTP:dennisb@primenet.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 8:07 AM To: seanpsg@home.net; CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [CHAHTA] Mississippi Choctaw Dwellings Yakoke, Sean. BTW, among Choctaw families who had both summer and winter cabins, was it the case that the two cabins would be in the same locale, or in different geographic areas similar to those today who have a winter home in Arizona and a summer home in a cooler locale? Your description of their different heating and cooling characteristics, together with the limited geography occupied by the Choctaw, suggests to me that a family may have built both types of "log cabin" next to each other? During what time frame do you understand this practice of having seasonal homes started? At 07:11 AM 04/10/2001 -0500, Sean P. S. George wrote: >A couple of minor additions to Dusty's comments that I hope will also be >useful... > >The main distinction between the Choctaw (and other indigenous southeastern >tribes') dwellings and the colonial style "log cabins" most people know, is >that the Choctaw didn't stack the logs on top of each other horizontally. > Instead they stood them up vertically, with the bottom ends sunk into the >ground. > >Also, it was not uncommon for them to have separate dwellings for different >seasons. Summer cabins were larger, rectangular, with open-ended gables >for ventilation, while winter cabins were smaller and circular to retain >more heat. > >Finally, in swampy areas the palmetto hut was widely used as well. The >frame was built from sturdy poles, and the palmetto fronds were tied to the >frame in overlapping "shingle" fashion. > >An interesting sidenote is that when the people who had been used to >building with palmetto started using cut lumber in the late 1800's and >early 1900's, the would apparently fasten several shingles together into a >palmetto-like arrangement before attaching it to the house frame. > >Most of the above info can be found in Swanton's books: "Indians of the >Southeastern U.S." and "Source Material for the Social and Ceremonial Life >of the Choctaw". There's a great picture of the palmetto hut, and I know a >Houma guy who still knows how to build them the old way. > > >--Sean > >-----Original Message----- >From: Dusty [SMTP:dustyc@microgear.net] >Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 7:20 PM >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Mississippi Choctaw Dwellings > >Dennis: >The type of dwelling used down here on the Gulf Coast was called "wattle >and >daub", and was a combination of poles used to support the structure with >interwoven sticks, twigs or branches used for the walls. Native clay used >as mortar to hold the sticks together. Dwellings of this nature were still >in use on occasion at the turn of the century, later evolving into the "log >cabin" type structure seen more recently. > >In the extreme southern, swampy parts of La. and Miss., there is still in >use today a structure similar to a small log cabin which is built on a raft >made of cypress or pine logs lashed together. When the rains come in the >spring and the Mississippi river rises causing flooding throughout the >Atchafalaya Basin swamplands, these dwellings float up with the high >water. >They are still referred to by the Cajun people as "Choctaws", and are >sometimes used as temporary hunting lodges. > >dusty >----- Original Message ----- >From: Dennis Boswell <dennisb@primenet.com> >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 3:47 PM >Subject: [CHAHTA] Mississippi Choctaw Dwellings > > > > Halito, CHAHTA-L subscribers, > > > > This message concerns pre-removal Choctaw, not those living in IT >following > > removal. I make this distinction because my question (below) concerns >only > > those Choctaw living in Mississippi prior to and during removal. > > > > I understand they lived in log cabins resembling a Hogan (similar to >those > > used by Navajos with a hole in the roof to allow smoke to escape). An > > example of a Hogan may be seen at, > > > > http://www.m-w.com/mw/art/hogan.htm > > > > In established villages, I have no doubt their dwellings resembled the > > Hogan. However, there is a possibility that when they traveled to the > > flood plains of the Yazoo and Mississippi Delta on hunting trips (as was > > the custom in the fall after the harvest season), they may have used a >more > > transportable dwelling structure such as a tepee, a picture of which may >be > > seen at, > > > > http://www.m-w.com/mw/art/tepee.htm > > > > ... or a wigwam (similar to those used by ANs in the Great Lakes >region).a > > picture of which may be seen at, > > > > http://www.m-w.com/mw/art/wigwam.htm > > > > I have seen nothing that claims they ever used tepee- or wigwam-like > > dwellings, even while traveling overland. In fact, it seems likely that > > during overland travel and after arriving at their remote destination, >they > > may not have used any form of dwelling - portable or otherwise unless it > > was built on the spot out of materials on hand at the location. One >reason > > they may not have taken their dwellings with them is the fact that >Choctaws > > hunted west of the Mississippi before removal. Crossing the Mississippi > > while transporting any form of portable dwelling would make the crossing > > task that much more difficult. > > > > Does anyone on the list have an opinion or know of a reference concerning > > the use of dwellings, portable or otherwise, during extended periods of > > travel away from the village? > > > > NOTE: (to myself) Might Choctaw use of Hogan-like structures indicate an > > original west to east migration path that took Choctaw's ancestors >through > > Navajo lands en-route to Mississippi? > > > > Yakoke, > > > > Dennis K. Boswell > > 301 Crow Canyon Drive > > Folsom, CA 95630 > > > > Tel: (916) 987-3599 > > Fax: (916) 987-3555 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > >______________________________ > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at >http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. Regards, Dennis K. Boswell 301 Crow Canyon Drive Folsom, CA 95630 Tel: (916) 987-3599 Fax: (916) 987-3555