Hi Dusty and all, I want to say that my brother looks full blood Indian but we are just 1/32. I don't look a bit like and Indian but I have the same amt of blood as he does. I feel the amt of Indian doesn't matter. We are all brothers and sisters just some of us have proof and others don't. I think we should all remember TOGETHER WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL. All of us need to unite together and stop worring about how much blood we have but our people were all at one time full blood so who cares if you are full or just a little. You are still my sister and brother and all are NA. Regards, Linda Kirby Branum (Guynes and Sain are my Indian heritage surnames) Guynes being Choctaw and documented and Sain Cherokee undocumented. But I feel ancestors calling from both!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies Gemma and all: > > I am intrigued and challenged by your question, "Does the community still > exist." I have pondered this question for many years and under many > different circumstances., and would like to get some feedback from other > listmembers. > > What is the state of the Indian community today..... > Specifically, WHAT IS AN INDIAN? Is it a matter of blood quantum? > Lifestyle? Beliefs? > > There can be no argument that there is definite predjudice among NA as to > "who is Indian" and who is not. There are "skins" and there are "bloods". > Why the separation? What does it take to be considered "Indian enough". > Are some NAs practicing a racism they would decry in other races.? Don't > quote me the government's definition of Indian, I'm well aware of that. > > I want the opinions of others on this list. > > dusty > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David and Tommie Marsters <haili65@proaxis.com> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:30 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > Well put, Gemma. I agree. > > Tommie > > > > Gemma West wrote: > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > trying to > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit in. > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions of > good > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look to > their > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. It is > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. It > is > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing is > that > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > Indians and > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is finding > the few > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it causes us > to > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they here to > get? > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about this > reverse > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our own > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live with. > This > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. If we > can > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great thing. > After > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world shaped > by > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > balance. It > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we went > to > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in us > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a white > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, but > they > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to put > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at best > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > B. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to everyone's > > > slings > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think > our > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > > > countless > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long as > it's > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because it > works > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a derogatory > name. > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? Isn't > that > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian blood > at > > > all > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > quotes > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ >

I like that idea, Linda. It emphasizes the one thing you all have in common - full blooded ancestors while deemphasizing the path each of you took in your travels that brought you to this day. Note my use of "you." As several of you know, I am not NA, but am enjoying this conversation immensely while learning much. nd At 10:11 PM 04/05/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Dusty and all, > I want to say that my brother looks full blood Indian but we are just >1/32. I don't look a bit like and Indian but I have the same amt of blood as >he does. > I feel the amt of Indian doesn't matter. We are all brothers and sisters >just some of us have proof and others don't. > I think we should all remember TOGETHER WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL. All of >us need to unite together and stop worring about how much blood we have but >our people were all at one time full blood so who cares if you are full or >just a little. You are still my sister and brother and all are NA. >Regards, Linda Kirby Branum > > (Guynes and Sain are my Indian heritage surnames) Guynes being Choctaw and >documented and Sain Cherokee undocumented. But I feel ancestors calling from >both!! >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 8:29 PM >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > Gemma and all: > > > > I am intrigued and challenged by your question, "Does the community still > > exist." I have pondered this question for many years and under many > > different circumstances., and would like to get some feedback from other > > listmembers. > > > > What is the state of the Indian community today..... > > Specifically, WHAT IS AN INDIAN? Is it a matter of blood quantum? > > Lifestyle? Beliefs? > > > > There can be no argument that there is definite predjudice among NA as to > > "who is Indian" and who is not. There are "skins" and there are "bloods". > > Why the separation? What does it take to be considered "Indian enough". > > Are some NAs practicing a racism they would decry in other races.? Don't > > quote me the government's definition of Indian, I'm well aware of that. > > > > I want the opinions of others on this list. > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: David and Tommie Marsters <haili65@proaxis.com> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:30 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > Well put, Gemma. I agree. > > > Tommie > > > > > > Gemma West wrote: > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > > trying to > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit in. > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions of > > good > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look to > > their > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. It >is > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. >It > > is > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing is > > that > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > > Indians and > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is finding > > the few > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it causes >us > > to > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they here >to > > get? > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about this > > reverse > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our own > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live with. > > This > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. If >we > > can > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great thing. > > After > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world >shaped > > by > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > > balance. It > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we >went > > to > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in >us > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a >white > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, >but > > they > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to >put > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at >best > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > B. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to everyone's > > > > slings > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think > > our > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > > > > countless > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long >as > > it's > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because it > > works > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a derogatory > > name. > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? >Isn't > > that > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian >blood > > at > > > > all > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > quotes > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at >http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the >list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at >CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com Regards, Dennis K. Boswell 301 Crow Canyon Drive Folsom, CA 95630 Tel: (916) 987-3599 Fax: (916) 987-3555

Hate to "nit pick", but here is MY problem with the suggestion: My great great grand mother MAY have been Chickasaw Indian from Gibson County, TN. She was born 1837. My great grand mother was almost without doubt Chocataw Indian from Chambers County, AL. She was born 1856. My grand mother was suppose to have been part Cherokee Indian from Hayti, MO. She was born 1907. If any of these women are on any of the "Final Rolls" or any of their kin, I have not been able to locate them!! Which "tribe" should I claim? BTW These are all my FATHER'S grand mothers. Jim jmorsn@coastalnet.com http://www2.coastalnet.com/~g7d3j4nb/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Branum" <mamalin@1s.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 11:11 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Were all Brothers and Sisters > Hi Dusty and all, > I want to say that my brother looks full blood Indian but we are just > 1/32. I don't look a bit like and Indian but I have the same amt of blood as > he does. > I feel the amt of Indian doesn't matter. We are all brothers and sisters > just some of us have proof and others don't. > I think we should all remember TOGETHER WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL. All of > us need to unite together and stop worring about how much blood we have but > our people were all at one time full blood so who cares if you are full or > just a little. You are still my sister and brother and all are NA. > Regards, Linda Kirby Branum > > (Guynes and Sain are my Indian heritage surnames) Guynes being Choctaw and > documented and Sain Cherokee undocumented. But I feel ancestors calling from > both!! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 8:29 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > Gemma and all: > > > > I am intrigued and challenged by your question, "Does the community still > > exist." I have pondered this question for many years and under many > > different circumstances., and would like to get some feedback from other > > listmembers. > > > > What is the state of the Indian community today..... > > Specifically, WHAT IS AN INDIAN? Is it a matter of blood quantum? > > Lifestyle? Beliefs? > > > > There can be no argument that there is definite predjudice among NA as to > > "who is Indian" and who is not. There are "skins" and there are "bloods". > > Why the separation? What does it take to be considered "Indian enough". > > Are some NAs practicing a racism they would decry in other races.? Don't > > quote me the government's definition of Indian, I'm well aware of that. > > > > I want the opinions of others on this list. > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: David and Tommie Marsters <haili65@proaxis.com> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:30 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > Well put, Gemma. I agree. > > > Tommie > > > > > > Gemma West wrote: > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > > trying to > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit in. > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions of > > good > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look to > > their > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. It > is > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. > It > > is > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing is > > that > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > > Indians and > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is finding > > the few > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it causes > us > > to > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they here > to > > get? > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about this > > reverse > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our own > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live with. > > This > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. If > we > > can > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great thing. > > After > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world > shaped > > by > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > > balance. It > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we > went > > to > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in > us > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a > white > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, > but > > they > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to > put > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at > best > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > B. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to everyone's > > > > slings > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think > > our > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > > > > countless > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long > as > > it's > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because it > > works > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a derogatory > > name. > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? > Isn't > > that > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian > blood > > at > > > > all > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > quotes > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at > http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > >

Linda, You are sooo right. In fact, we all know, if we look at history, that's one of the problems the Indians had. Had they banned together, they could have done better. But, they were divided and easy conquering for the whites. Just thoughts and my own opinion. Take care and go safely! Tsana ----- Original Message ----- From: Linda Branum <mamalin@1s.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:11 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Were all Brothers and Sisters > Hi Dusty and all, > I want to say that my brother looks full blood Indian but we are just > 1/32. I don't look a bit like and Indian but I have the same amt of blood as > he does. > I feel the amt of Indian doesn't matter. We are all brothers and sisters > just some of us have proof and others don't. > I think we should all remember TOGETHER WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL. All of > us need to unite together and stop worring about how much blood we have but > our people were all at one time full blood so who cares if you are full or > just a little. You are still my sister and brother and all are NA. > Regards, Linda Kirby Branum > > (Guynes and Sain are my Indian heritage surnames) Guynes being Choctaw and > documented and Sain Cherokee undocumented. But I feel ancestors calling from > both!! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 8:29 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > Gemma and all: > > > > I am intrigued and challenged by your question, "Does the community still > > exist." I have pondered this question for many years and under many > > different circumstances., and would like to get some feedback from other > > listmembers. > > > > What is the state of the Indian community today..... > > Specifically, WHAT IS AN INDIAN? Is it a matter of blood quantum? > > Lifestyle? Beliefs? > > > > There can be no argument that there is definite predjudice among NA as to > > "who is Indian" and who is not. There are "skins" and there are "bloods". > > Why the separation? What does it take to be considered "Indian enough". > > Are some NAs practicing a racism they would decry in other races.? Don't > > quote me the government's definition of Indian, I'm well aware of that. > > > > I want the opinions of others on this list. > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: David and Tommie Marsters <haili65@proaxis.com> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:30 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > Well put, Gemma. I agree. > > > Tommie > > > > > > Gemma West wrote: > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > > trying to > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit in. > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions of > > good > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look to > > their > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. It > is > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. > It > > is > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing is > > that > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > > Indians and > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is finding > > the few > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it causes > us > > to > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they here > to > > get? > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about this > > reverse > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our own > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live with. > > This > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. If > we > > can > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great thing. > > After > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world > shaped > > by > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > > balance. It > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we > went > > to > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in > us > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a > white > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, > but > > they > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to > put > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at > best > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > B. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to everyone's > > > > slings > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think > > our > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > > > > countless > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long > as > > it's > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because it > > works > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a derogatory > > name. > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? > Isn't > > that > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian > blood > > at > > > > all > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > quotes > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at > http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com