Halito Dusty and to all on List. As you know the US.government dosn't specify what the blood quantrum must be to be Indian. It states,if the tribe reconises them that is enough for them. Years ago in the prison system the brothers there felt that if you didn't have a card or something to prove that you were Indian you wasn't, and guranteed there was some that wantsd to be a part of what we had there that had no Indian in them at all. But as more City Indians as we called them started to come into the system we had to be more open minded. We were placed there to teach not Judge. I read something on the internet a while back it stated that Indian blood no matter how thin, shines like gold. I believe that Indianess comes from the heart no matter what the blood quantrum is. I have been in the Sweat lodge with brothers from all Nations and it was a good Sweat. I have walked on the prison yard with Brothers from all Nations with all different degrees of Indian blood. What mattered to me was not how much Indian blood they had, but how much Indian were they. In this Day and Age there are not very many full bloods of any Indian Race. They may be full blood Indian but it usually two or three or more different tribes mixed togeather. It is not important what the mix is , What is important is what is inside of you. Grandfather is the only one that has the right to say who is Indian and who is not. And in a Sweat Lodge I have seen him do it. Walk in Beauty Elkdreamer >From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies >Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 20:29:26 -0500 > >Gemma and all: > >I am intrigued and challenged by your question, "Does the community still >exist." I have pondered this question for many years and under many >different circumstances., and would like to get some feedback from other >listmembers. > >What is the state of the Indian community today..... >Specifically, WHAT IS AN INDIAN? Is it a matter of blood quantum? >Lifestyle? Beliefs? > >There can be no argument that there is definite predjudice among NA as to >"who is Indian" and who is not. There are "skins" and there are "bloods". >Why the separation? What does it take to be considered "Indian enough". >Are some NAs practicing a racism they would decry in other races.? Don't >quote me the government's definition of Indian, I'm well aware of that. > >I want the opinions of others on this list. > >dusty > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: David and Tommie Marsters <haili65@proaxis.com> >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:30 PM >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > Well put, Gemma. I agree. > > Tommie > > > > Gemma West wrote: > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life >trying to > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit in. > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions of >good > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look to >their > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. It >is > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. >It >is > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing is >that > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around >Indians and > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is finding >the few > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it causes >us >to > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they here >to >get? > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about this >reverse > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our own > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live with. >This > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. If >we >can > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great thing. >After > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world >shaped >by > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of >balance. It > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we >went >to > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in >us > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a >white > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, >but >they > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to >put > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at >best > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > B. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to everyone's > > > slings > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think >our > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > > > countless > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long >as >it's > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because it >works > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a derogatory >name. > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? >Isn't >that > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian >blood >at > > > all > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the >quotes > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > Get free email and a permanent address at >http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Elkdreamer, You are just spilling over with words of wisdom tonight. I could just hug your neck.haha Yokoke, yokoke, yokoke, Arla ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:40 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > Halito Dusty and to all on List. > As you know the US.government dosn't specify what the blood quantrum must > be to be Indian. It states,if the tribe reconises them that is enough for > them. Years ago in the prison system the brothers there felt that if you > didn't have a card or something to prove that you were Indian you wasn't, > and guranteed there was some that wantsd to be a part of what we had there > that had no Indian in them at all. But as more City Indians as we called > them started to come into the system we had to be more open minded. We were > placed there to teach not Judge. > I read something on the internet a while back it stated that Indian blood > no matter how thin, shines like gold. I believe that Indianess comes from > the heart no matter what the blood quantrum is. > I have been in the Sweat lodge with brothers from all Nations and it was a > good Sweat. I have walked on the prison yard with Brothers from all Nations > with all different degrees of Indian blood. What mattered to me was not how > much Indian blood they had, but how much Indian were they. > In this Day and Age there are not very many full bloods of any Indian > Race. They may be full blood Indian but it usually two or three or more > different tribes mixed togeather. It is not important what the mix is , > What is important is what is inside of you. Grandfather is the only one that > has the right to say who is Indian and who is not. And in a Sweat Lodge I > have seen him do it. > Walk in Beauty Elkdreamer > > >