Dusty, Not new to the list, but too new to studying my Choctaw heritage to know where to begin asking questions. I have known since before I was in high school that I was of NA descent. I tried to read about it then, but I got upset reading about the history of removals and broken treaties. We lived overseas and all I could get was extremely sanitized versions of history, but it still made me mad. My mother took any such books away from me and would not let me read about NA history again. She made quite an impression. I haven't lived under her roof for over 10 years, but it has taken me this long to find my way back where I first started my search. I may not have joined in the discussion, but I have learned from it. It has helped me to give my personal search some badly needed focus. Keep the discussion going. When I know enough to ask the right questions, I'll jump in. Thanks. Kris ----- Original Message ----- From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > Kris: > > Are you new to this list? That's what we've been doing the last week or so. > And in doing so, our list shrank from about 100 down to 68 as of this > morning. In the past 10 days I've received mail that ranged from mild > chiding to words that a sailor that had been to sea for seven years wouldn't > think of. Stick around, the subject will come back up again! <LOL> > > If you have questons, please ask. Someone here may be able to answer. > > dusty > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kris Harapan <harapank@wwdb.org> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 10:22 AM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > Tsana, > > > > I second this. Having recently begun a spiritual quest of my own, I have > > been looking for a forum (online and off) that would support me in asking > > questions, without trying to force me onto a given path. I have just left > > that route behind, and would very much like to find the path that is right > > for me. What seems to be the hardest right now is finding a reputable > > source for guidance into exploring new areas, and having a place where it > is > > okay to have questions. Am open to any suggestions others might have. > > > > I know the recent discussions have been a bit hard on some, but I have > found > > it to be quite helpful. I know concern has been expressed about using > this > > forum for spiritual discussions, what would be the possibility of having a > > list for discussion of traditional Choctaw beliefs, the impact of outside > > religions on those beliefs, and how this impacts their descendents today? > > Would their be enough interest to support something like that? > > > > Kris > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Tsa na Jordan <medicgirl78@yahoo.com> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 9:52 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > Barbara, > > > I, like, Patsy, beg to differ. The only difference, it seems, > between > > > you and I is that you had a chance to grow up with and learn the Choctaw > > > > culture from your family, elders, etc. I, on the other hand, did not > have > > > that luxury. Now, it's no fault of mine, nor of my family. They did > what > > > they thought best for the family at the time. OK, so does that mean > that > > I > > > am not as interested? NO. Does that mean that I can't learn a lot > about > > it > > > from the internet, books, elders, other tribal members, etc.? NO. Does > > it > > > mean that I can become as knowledgable as you who grew up with it? YES. > > I > > > will probably never know all that you do, nor will that bother me. I > want > > > to learn my family's history and culture. Does it mean that I may adopt > > > some of the beliefs I learn about? PROBABLY since I've already adopted > > some > > > of the Cherokee beliefs. Does it mean that you are a better "Indian" > than > > > I? NOPE. Does it mean that you are a better person, in general, than > I? > > > NOPE. > > > I would appreciate your sharing some of the ways of the Choctaw > since > > > you are so educated in those ways. Now, I'm fully aware that there are > > some > > > things that simply aren't meant to be on the internet, and I respect > that. > > > So, sister, I lay down my bundle of tobacco beside you and ask in a good > > > way - will you help me learn? I ask this with all respect. But, with > the > > > same respect I'm also saying that I don't want to debate or argue. If > > > you're willing to sharing information, I'm your sponge, here to soak it > > all > > > up! > > > Thanks, Barbara! > > > Tsana > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Patsy Caleb <studentarchaeologist@home.com> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:12 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > can i disagree to that because the more i learn about my choctaw > > heritage > > > > the more spiritual i become > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:49 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we > > went > > > > to > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in > > us > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a > > white > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, > > but > > > > they > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to > > put > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at > > best > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > B. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > everyone's > > > > > slings > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think > > > our > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > > > > > countless > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long > > as > > > > it's > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because > it > > > > works > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > derogatory > > > > name. > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? > > Isn't > > > > that > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian > > blood > > > at > > > > > all > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > > quotes > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Choctaw Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > >
Kris: As someone has said previously, there is no such thing as a stupid question. There are some very knowledgeable folks on this list. If we don't know the answers, we will try to direct you to someone who does. Your input is valued. dusty List Admin. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kris Harapan <harapank@wwdb.org> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:01 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > Dusty, > > Not new to the list, but too new to studying my Choctaw heritage to know > where to begin asking questions. I have known since before I was in high > school that I was of NA descent. I tried to read about it then, but I got > upset reading about the history of removals and broken treaties. We lived > overseas and all I could get was extremely sanitized versions of history, > but it still made me mad. My mother took any such books away from me and > would not let me read about NA history again. She made quite an impression. > I haven't lived under her roof for over 10 years, but it has taken me this > long to find my way back where I first started my search. > > I may not have joined in the discussion, but I have learned from it. It has > helped me to give my personal search some badly needed focus. > > Keep the discussion going. When I know enough to ask the right questions, > I'll jump in. > > Thanks. > > Kris > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 12:58 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > Kris: > > > > Are you new to this list? That's what we've been doing the last week or > so. > > And in doing so, our list shrank from about 100 down to 68 as of this > > morning. In the past 10 days I've received mail that ranged from mild > > chiding to words that a sailor that had been to sea for seven years > wouldn't > > think of. Stick around, the subject will come back up again! <LOL> > > > > If you have questons, please ask. Someone here may be able to answer. > > > > dusty > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Kris Harapan <harapank@wwdb.org> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 10:22 AM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > Tsana, > > > > > > I second this. Having recently begun a spiritual quest of my own, I > have > > > been looking for a forum (online and off) that would support me in > asking > > > questions, without trying to force me onto a given path. I have just > left > > > that route behind, and would very much like to find the path that is > right > > > for me. What seems to be the hardest right now is finding a reputable > > > source for guidance into exploring new areas, and having a place where > it > > is > > > okay to have questions. Am open to any suggestions others might have. > > > > > > I know the recent discussions have been a bit hard on some, but I have > > found > > > it to be quite helpful. I know concern has been expressed about using > > this > > > forum for spiritual discussions, what would be the possibility of having > a > > > list for discussion of traditional Choctaw beliefs, the impact of > outside > > > religions on those beliefs, and how this impacts their descendents > today? > > > Would their be enough interest to support something like that? > > > > > > Kris > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Tsa na Jordan <medicgirl78@yahoo.com> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 9:52 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > Barbara, > > > > I, like, Patsy, beg to differ. The only difference, it seems, > > between > > > > you and I is that you had a chance to grow up with and learn the > Choctaw > > > > > > culture from your family, elders, etc. I, on the other hand, did not > > have > > > > that luxury. Now, it's no fault of mine, nor of my family. They did > > what > > > > they thought best for the family at the time. OK, so does that mean > > that > > > I > > > > am not as interested? NO. Does that mean that I can't learn a lot > > about > > > it > > > > from the internet, books, elders, other tribal members, etc.? NO. > Does > > > it > > > > mean that I can become as knowledgable as you who grew up with it? > YES. > > > I > > > > will probably never know all that you do, nor will that bother me. I > > want > > > > to learn my family's history and culture. Does it mean that I may > adopt > > > > some of the beliefs I learn about? PROBABLY since I've already > adopted > > > some > > > > of the Cherokee beliefs. Does it mean that you are a better "Indian" > > than > > > > I? NOPE. Does it mean that you are a better person, in general, than > > I? > > > > NOPE. > > > > I would appreciate your sharing some of the ways of the Choctaw > > since > > > > you are so educated in those ways. Now, I'm fully aware that there > are > > > some > > > > things that simply aren't meant to be on the internet, and I respect > > that. > > > > So, sister, I lay down my bundle of tobacco beside you and ask in a > good > > > > way - will you help me learn? I ask this with all respect. But, with > > the > > > > same respect I'm also saying that I don't want to debate or argue. If > > > > you're willing to sharing information, I'm your sponge, here to soak > it > > > all > > > > up! > > > > Thanks, Barbara! > > > > Tsana > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Patsy Caleb <studentarchaeologist@home.com> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:12 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > can i disagree to that because the more i learn about my choctaw > > > heritage > > > > > the more spiritual i become > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:49 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something > we > > > went > > > > > to > > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born > in > > > us > > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a > > > white > > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some > things, > > > but > > > > > they > > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts > to > > > put > > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at > > > best > > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > > B. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > > everyone's > > > > > > slings > > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just > think > > > > our > > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've > had > > > > > > countless > > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as > long > > > as > > > > > it's > > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways > because > > it > > > > > works > > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > > derogatory > > > > > name. > > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do > so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? > > > Isn't > > > > > that > > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian > > > blood > > > > at > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without > the > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > quotes > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the > quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Choctaw Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com >