Gemma: Thank you, and Amen to that. Tommie Gemma West wrote: > It should be clear to you that I don't concern myself with Webster's > definition of intelligence. If not then let me assure you of this fact. > > Frankly your whole demeanor on this list reeks of disrespect or playground > taunting. Your referral to people not choosing to name themselves afer > dolphins is just another in a long line of examples. But, of course, I may be > completely wrong. If you do indeed have Indian ancestors I hope that their > spirits prevail on you to change. > > Cheers, > > Gemma > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/

Good point, Juli. As a "born in Louisiana, raised in the Northwest" person, I had the reverse happen. I was looked upon as being, shall we say, less bright than the other children when I first entered school in Seattle at age 10. Thankfully, this lasted only a short time, as my grades showed the teachers otherwise. I was also asked to speak more slowly, so as to be better understood. Believe it or not many Louisianians do NOT have a Southern drawl. Anyway, my mother is still a bit uncomfortable when my children don't add the "Ma'am" or "Sir" when speaking to her or her siblings. On the other hand, we have often been complimented for having "such well behaved kids." So, as you say, it's in manner or spirit of how the words are delivered. One can say "Yes, Ma'am" or "Yes Sir" and the VOICE can be dripping with sarcasm. Go in a good way, Tommie Juli Kearns wrote: > "Good manners" are not necessarily "good manners" in another. I grew up in > the northwest and had never heard "Yes maam" and "No maam", "Yes sir" and > "No sir". Not even when visiting relatives in the midwest had I heard > this. We moved to Ga when I was 10 and when I would say "Yes" to a > teacher, they would respond, "Yes, what?" And I would say, "No?" And they > would say, "No, what?" I was without a clue and completely confused. What > in the world did they want me to say? When I was finally informed what was > going on, I considered it particularly rigorous, unsympathetic, and > ignorant on the part of these adults to not understand that regional > customs may just be that, regional. Indeed, in the situations in which I > had grown up, the use of "Yes maam" etc. would have been suggestive to the > ears of both pandering and subjugation. A simple yes or no was enough. > > What makes good manners is the spirit in which another individual is treated. > > Juli > > At 01:06 PM 4/8/01 -0700, you wrote: > >I don't know if good manners are Indian ways or southern ways, but I raised > >my children up to say yes mam and no sir, etc. One of mine came home from > >school one day and said to me "what". I asked her if I needed to wash out > >her mouth or her ears and asked did she speak to her teachers that way to > >which she responded, "Ms. Jones doesn't want me to call her Mam" to which I > >said "Ms Jones can have no manners if she wishes but that option is not open > >to you, you will call anyone that is 20 years older than you mam or sir." > >Fay > >----- Original Message ----- > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Need more CHOCTAW information. Visit Rusty Lang's pages at http://www.choctaw-web.com for articles, censuses, etc.

I think it's been nearer to a year. Will check with Iris and see what's going on now. Fay ----- Original Message ----- From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] PROBLEMS ON PINE RIDGE-ROSEBUD > They're STILL THERE???? That was months ago!! > > dusty > ----- Original Message ----- > From: faynshep <faynshep@telapex.com> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 1:36 AM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] PROBLEMS ON PINE RIDGE-ROSEBUD > > > > They are still in the Red Cloud building. The new administration that > took > > over, is doing the same things. The money they get their hands on, are > > going into their pockets or the pockets of their friends and family > members. > > How they can do these things to their own people amazes me. Greed is a > > great destroyer. These people need a healing from the inside out. I'm > > afraid that there are very few left with the ability to stand up and be > > counted. They are tired and weary, their strength is depleted. About the > > clothes that have been thrown away, Iris told me "If you send anything to > > the Council House, they will go through it, keep the money and anything > else > > they want and throw away the rest." > > Fay > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 9:11 PM > > Subject: [CHAHTA] PROBLEMS ON PINE RIDGE-ROSEBUD > > > > > > > IMHO, the leaders at Rosebud and Pine Ridge are responsible for the > > > poverty-striken condition some of their people live in. Time and time > > again > > > those leaders have been plagued with accusations of scandal, skimming of > > > tribal funds, etc. They steadfastly refuse to take MILLIONS of dollars > > > money that has been offered to them by the government. Their leaders > are > > > willing to let their own people freeze and starve to death (and that is > > > happening every winter) rather than compromise with outsiders who are > > > offering help. > > > > > > Last year things got so bad that the tribal headquarters was taken over > by > > a > > > group of protestors, including elders. who closed it down and inhabited > it > > > for days. One woman with several children who had been trying to months > > to > > > get relief money just moved her mattresses into the receptionists office > > and > > > set up camp, saying she would live there until they could find her a > place > > > for herself and her children to live. They kept in touch with the > outside > > > via radio. Finally, after resorting to calling in the state police, the > > > tribal council agreed to meet with the protestors. > > > > > > I have, in the past, sent aid in the form of cash and clothing to a few > of > > > the people in that area through relief agencies and individuals > dedicated > > to > > > works of charity. The boxes of clothing (much of it brand new with the > > > tags still on) were found dumped under a bridge near Rosebud and since > our > > > return address was written on it, the person who found it wrote and told > > us. > > > > > > It's up to the LEADERS of those tribes to get off their duffs and help > > their > > > own people. They have time and time again refused outside aid and must > be > > > held responsible for their actions by their own people. They must heal > > > themselves internally first. IMHO > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: faynshep <faynshep@telapex.com> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 11:52 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Re: THANKS TO OUR ANCESTORS > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry, but according to my friend Iris with the Lakota Sioux on > the > > > Pine > > > > Ridge reservation, she was helping me to gather information on a > family > > > that > > > > I could help out this winter personally by going straight to them > > instead > > > of > > > > some organization and paying them some sort of fee. The family she > > found > > > > for me was an elderly man named Ross and his grandson Mathew. Ross > and > > > > Mathew were in the dark and in the cold because their "guardian" had > not > > > > paid their light bill or paid for them some butane. With all the > > millions > > > > and millions that this country owes to the Native Americans, I took a > > > small > > > > $20.00 and mailed Ross and Mathew a blanket, socks, caps, and some > food. > > > > Now, you tell me who needs repriations? > > > > Fay > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 6:28 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Re: THANKS TO OUR ANCESTORS > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those limitations on being able to do business without a legal > > guardian > > > > for > > > > > 1/2 or fullbloods were called "restrictions", and that law as > formally > > > > > struck down around the turn of the century, I believe. I can't put > my > > > > hand > > > > > on the exact date at the moment. > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > quotes > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the > quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Need more CHOCTAW information. Visit Rusty Lang's pages at > http://www.choctaw-web.com for articles, censuses, etc. > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ >

Yes, I used that general date and it looks promising. I just hope I'm not disappointed. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Fay ----- Original Message ----- From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Dawes info.? > Read again, Creeks by blood are shown the age they were when they enrolled - > on that date. And to find out what that date was you have to get a copy of > their census card. I use 1902-1906 as a general area to figure age. > > dusty > ----- Original Message ----- > From: faynshep <faynshep@telapex.com> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 2:26 AM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Dawes info.? > > > > What about Creeks by Blood? > > Fay > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 12:39 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Dawes info.? > > > > > > > Some groups are dated as of 1902. Other groups are dated as of different > > > dates. Here's the way it breaks down: > > > > > > Choctaws by Blood, Sept. 25, 1902 > > > Newborn Choctaws, March 4, 1905 > > > Minor Choctaws, Marhc 4, 1906 > > > Intermarried Choctaws, Sept. 25, 1902 > > > Choctaw Freedmen, Sept. 25, 1902 > > > Minor Choctaw Freedmen, March 4, 1906 > > > > > > Mississippi Choctaws, Sept. 25, 1902 > > > Newborn Miss. Choctaw, March 4, 1905 > > > Minor Miss. Choctaw, March 4, 1906 > > > > > > Chickasaws, Sept. 25, 1902 > > > Newborn Chickasaw, March 4, 1905 > > > Minor Chickasaw, March 4, 1906 > > > Intermarried Chickasaw, Sept. 25, 1902 > > > Chickasaw Freedmen, 'Sept. 25, 1902 > > > > > > Cherokee by Blood, Sept. 1, 1902 > > > Minor Cherokee, March 4, 1905 > > > Delaware Cherokee-no date shown on roll > > > Intermarried Cherokee-no date shown > > > Cherokee Freedmen-no date shown > > > Minor Cherokee Freedmen-March 4, 1907 > > > > > > Creeks by Blood-age is shown as of date of enrollment. In order to > > > calculate age it is necessary to have a copy of census card showing date > > of > > > enrollment > > > Newborn Creeks-age as of enrollment date > > > Minor Creek-age as of enrollment date > > > Creek Freedmen-age as of enrollment date > > > Minor Creek Freedmen-age age of enrollment date > > > > > > Seminole by Blood-Dec. 31, 1899 > > > Seminole Freedmen-March 3, 1905 > > > Minor Seminoles-March 3, 1905 > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Elkdreamer Wilkins <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 9:32 AM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Dawes info.? > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > On the Nail site the first page has the year that it was done. It > was > > > > in 1902. > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: faynshep <faynshep@telapex.com> > > > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Dawes info.? > > > > >Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 21:35:46 -0700 > > > > > > > > > >But how do you know what year that roll was done? I'm thinking there > > is > > > > >some broad span of years. Do you just have to wait until you get the > > > > >packet > > > > >and then will you be able to find out about when they were born? > > > > >Fay > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > >From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > >Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:19 PM > > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Dawes info.? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, age is listed on the Dawes roll. You calculate it from the > > year > > > > >that > > > > > > particular roll was done. > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: faynshep <faynshep@telapex.com> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:06 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Dawes info.? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know, it tells you so much but it doesn't say what year that > > > > > > information > > > > > > > was taken so you don't know when a person was born. I will call > > them > > > > >and > > > > > > see > > > > > > > if I can order over the phone. > > > > > > > Fay > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 7:22 AM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Dawes info.? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can tell you what family members are listed on the same > census > > > > >card, > > > > > > > > sometimes helping people to recognize if a name is their > > ancestor > > > or > > > > > > not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seems to me like I have been told you can do this over the > phone > > > > >with > > > > > > > credit > > > > > > > > card. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: faynshep <faynshep@telapex.com> > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:14 AM > > > > > > > > Subject: [CHAHTA] Dawes info.? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dusty, Can you order a packet over the phone and pay with a > > > credit > > > > > > card? > > > > > > > > > I have a name, age, census number, and roll number. Is > there > > > any > > > > >more > > > > > > > > info. > > > > > > > > > on what you have? > > > > > > > > > Fay > > > > > > > > > Don't ever give up.!!!! > > > > > > > > > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/gedcoms/ratcliff/ > > > > > > > > > List owner HOLDEN-L, SCHIFANO-L > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" > without > > > the > > > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without > > the > > > > >quotes > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > >TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > > >Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the > > quotes > > > > >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the > quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

I don't know if good manners are Indian ways or southern ways, but I raised my children up to say yes mam and no sir, etc. One of mine came home from school one day and said to me "what". I asked her if I needed to wash out her mouth or her ears and asked did she speak to her teachers that way to which she responded, "Ms. Jones doesn't want me to call her Mam" to which I said "Ms Jones can have no manners if she wishes but that option is not open to you, you will call anyone that is 20 years older than you mam or sir." Fay ----- Original Message ----- From: Linda Branum <mamalin@1s.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 9:56 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > All is well put thats for sure. I have always tried to teach my children > to say Yes Sir and No Sir and Yes Mame and No Mame.( Boy I don't think I > spelled that right <):-) > Some people think thats not right but to always respect your ELDERS is what > I have always been taught. My Dad taught me that and I do love him for that. > There are so many children who don't say that I have always been told that > my children were so polite and I feel that me teaching them that my Father > taught me is why they feel that way about my children. > Linda > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 11:13 AM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > Makes perfect sense. Very similar to the way I was raised. The fact that > > we were "Indian" was hardly ever brought up. I can't remember ever being > > told that something was the "Indian" way to act....just the "right" way to > > act. > > > > dusty > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Tsa na Jordan <medicgirl78@yahoo.com> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 11:13 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > You know, as I look back on my "raising", I see that even though we were > > > told that we were Cherokee/Choctaw, we weren't given the religous > culture > > in > > > detail, but we were raised to follow the general Indian beliefs. Such > as: > > > environmental protection, respect to animals, and respect of elders. I > > had > > > always thought of these as general "good ethics", but the more I look at > > > people and the older I get, I realize that these were taught to me > because > > > they were taught to my father, and his father, and his father, etc. > They > > > were a "way of life" not something that my elders really thought about, > > just > > > the way they had lived and those before them had lived. Does this make > > > sense? I'm not so good at putting this stuff down in black and white. > > > Take care and go safely! > > > Tsana > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 9:32 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > Dusty one of the things I see as I am out and about doing shows and > > > talking > > > > to people is those people who connect with their long ago indigenous > > > > Ancestors seem to have a better grasp of taking care of community and > > the > > > > Earth.It is those who can't seem to find the connection that have a > > > problem > > > > with hearing. Arla > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 4:10 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem seems to be, with people who have no Indian blood, > getting > > > > them > > > > > to LISTEN. The native people of this country are far more in tune > > with > > > > what > > > > > is going on re this continent than the invaders, but those who are > all > > > > into > > > > > technology and the worship of man's knowledge rather than Gods > > knowledge > > > > > seem to screw everything up and then wonder what happened to make > > > things > > > > go > > > > > wrong. IMHO > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 2:01 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those who have grown up in Indian communities but seem to have no > > > > > knowledge > > > > > > of their own spirituality are still aware of something inside > that > > is > > > > > > different, even if they don't know what it is.(Because of the > thick > > > > > > assimilation) > > > > > > And it is my hope that more of our people will recognise that we > are > > > not > > > > > > "second class" and that our spirituality is not just a matter of > > > > > "beliefs", > > > > > > and that it is not "inferior" to the spirituality any other race > of > > > > > > people...It is also my hope that those non-Indians who can learn a > > > > better > > > > > > way of living in balance from Indians, or whoever, will do so... > > > > > > B. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Gemma West" <gemmawest@usa.net> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:35 PM > > > > > > Subject: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through > life > > > > > trying > > > > > > to > > > > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't > fit > > > in. > > > > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's > > defintions > > > of > > > > > > good > > > > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to > > look > > > to > > > > > > their > > > > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel > comfortable. > > > It > > > > is > > > > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological > > characteristics. > > > > It > > > > > is > > > > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad > > thing > > > is > > > > > > that > > > > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up > around > > > > > Indians > > > > > > and > > > > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is > > > finding > > > > > the > > > > > > few > > > > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share > knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it > > > causes > > > > us > > > > > > to > > > > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they > > here > > > > to > > > > > > get? > > > > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about > > > this > > > > > > reverse > > > > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace > our > > > own > > > > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live > > > with. > > > > > > This > > > > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new > generations. > > > If > > > > we > > > > > > can > > > > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great > > thing. > > > > > > After > > > > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a > world > > > > shaped > > > > > > by > > > > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > > > > > balance. > > > > > > It > > > > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something > > we > > > > went > > > > > > to > > > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is > born > > in > > > > us > > > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by > a > > > > white > > > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some > > things, > > > > but > > > > > > they > > > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts > > to > > > > put > > > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is > at > > > > best > > > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > > > B. > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > > > everyone's > > > > > > > slings > > > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just > > think > > > > > our > > > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've > > had > > > > > > > countless > > > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as > > long > > > > as > > > > > > it's > > > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways > > because > > > it > > > > > > works > > > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > > > derogatory > > > > > > name. > > > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do > > so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? > > > > Isn't > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no > Indian > > > > blood > > > > > at > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without > > the > > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at > > > > http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > > quotes > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to > > the > > > > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > > > > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information. Visit Rusty Lang's pages at > > > http://www.choctaw-web.com for articles, censuses, etc. > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

Hi Jim, I do know that in some of the papers I have on my family members. We are Choctaw but my Great Uncle William Guynes married a Chickasaw woman and their children are listed in the Chickasaw rolls. If I am wrong please someone correct me. William is listed as 1/2 Choctaw and Margaret James Guynes is listed as 3/4 Chickasaw. Its my understanding that the greater Indian blood line would be who the children are listed with. I have also heard that the children were listed with the mothers side too. I think that is why there is such a problem with the black ancestors who had Indian fathers. They were listed with their mother who was black and can't claim their Indian rights. Does anyone know the law about this. If I stand corrected please feel free to correct me. I think this is wrong to not let them have their Indian Heritage but so many things were wrong back then. Linda Kirby Branum ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Morrison, Jr." <jmorsn@coastalnet.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Were all Brothers and Sisters > Hate to "nit pick", but here is MY problem with the suggestion: > My great great grand mother MAY have been Chickasaw Indian from Gibson > County, TN. She was born 1837. > My great grand mother was almost without doubt Chocataw Indian from Chambers > County, AL. She was born 1856. > My grand mother was suppose to have been part Cherokee Indian from Hayti, > MO. She was born 1907. > > If any of these women are on any of the "Final Rolls" or any of their kin, I > have not been able to locate them!! Which "tribe" should I claim? > BTW > These are all my FATHER'S grand mothers. > Jim > > jmorsn@coastalnet.com > http://www2.coastalnet.com/~g7d3j4nb/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Linda Branum" <mamalin@1s.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 11:11 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Were all Brothers and Sisters > > > > Hi Dusty and all, > > I want to say that my brother looks full blood Indian but we are just > > 1/32. I don't look a bit like and Indian but I have the same amt of blood > as > > he does. > > I feel the amt of Indian doesn't matter. We are all brothers and sisters > > just some of us have proof and others don't. > > I think we should all remember TOGETHER WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL. All of > > us need to unite together and stop worring about how much blood we have > but > > our people were all at one time full blood so who cares if you are full or > > just a little. You are still my sister and brother and all are NA. > > Regards, Linda Kirby Branum > > > > (Guynes and Sain are my Indian heritage surnames) Guynes being Choctaw > and > > documented and Sain Cherokee undocumented. But I feel ancestors calling > from > > both!! > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 8:29 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > Gemma and all: > > > > > > I am intrigued and challenged by your question, "Does the community > still > > > exist." I have pondered this question for many years and under many > > > different circumstances., and would like to get some feedback from other > > > listmembers. > > > > > > What is the state of the Indian community today..... > > > Specifically, WHAT IS AN INDIAN? Is it a matter of blood quantum? > > > Lifestyle? Beliefs? > > > > > > There can be no argument that there is definite predjudice among NA as > to > > > "who is Indian" and who is not. There are "skins" and there are > "bloods". > > > Why the separation? What does it take to be considered "Indian enough". > > > Are some NAs practicing a racism they would decry in other races.? > Don't > > > quote me the government's definition of Indian, I'm well aware of that. > > > > > > I want the opinions of others on this list. > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: David and Tommie Marsters <haili65@proaxis.com> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:30 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > Well put, Gemma. I agree. > > > > Tommie > > > > > > > > Gemma West wrote: > > > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > > > trying to > > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit > in. > > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions > of > > > good > > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look > to > > > their > > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. > It > > is > > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. > > It > > > is > > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing > is > > > that > > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > > > Indians and > > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is > finding > > > the few > > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it > causes > > us > > > to > > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they here > > to > > > get? > > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about > this > > > reverse > > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our > own > > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live > with. > > > This > > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. > If > > we > > > can > > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great thing. > > > After > > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world > > shaped > > > by > > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > > > balance. It > > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we > > went > > > to > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in > > us > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a > > white > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, > > but > > > they > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to > > put > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at > > best > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > B. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > everyone's > > > > > slings > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think > > > our > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > > > > > countless > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long > > as > > > it's > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because > it > > > works > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > derogatory > > > name. > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? > > Isn't > > > that > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian > > blood > > > at > > > > > all > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > > quotes > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at > > http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > quotes > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com >

That's why when I give away (or occasionally sell) a pot, I ask that if it is broken or when the owner is tired of it, he return it to the earth by burying it. The pottery is made from native clay and is, literally, the dust of my ancestors. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Elkdreamer Wilkins <elkdremr@hotmail.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > Yes it is Patsy > The dust has the flesh and bones of our ancestors. > Walk in Beauty > Elkdreamer > > > >From: "Patsy Caleb" <studentarchaeologist@home.com> > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > >Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 10:23:31 -0700 > > > >Even every speck of dust > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Elkdreamer Wilkins <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 8:44 AM > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > > Halito Jim > > > The spirit of all is impornant. Every animal, Plant, bug, bird, bacteria > > > etc: are part of the circle of life and must be respected as such. > > > The prayer that we say, All my relations means. > > > A-ho Grandfather > > > A prayer for the four leggeged, two leggeged, winged and finned, > >the > > > tree nation's, the creeping and crawling. > > > All my relations > > > A-ho > > > Walk in beauty > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Jim Morrison, Jr." <jmorsn@coastalnet.com> > > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > >Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 00:53:33 -0400 > > > > > > > >I am not a student of anthroplogy so I looked it up in the dictionary!! > > > >anthropology = the study of man, esp. of variety, physical and cultural > > > >characteristics, distribution, customs, social relationships, etc. of > > > >mankind: often restricted to the study of the institutions, myths, etc. > >of > > > >nonliterate peoples. > > > >Hmmmm > > > >As for "Flight or Fight", I never thought of it as a "human" trait, but > >as > > > >an animal one. > > > >You pray to the "sprit" of a cow, pig, chicken, egg, etc. for them > >being > >so > > > >nice as to allow themselves to be killed so that you can eat them? > >WOW!!! > > > >Jim > > > > > > > >jmorsn@coastalnet.com > > > >http://www2.coastalnet.com/~g7d3j4nb/ > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > >Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 12:34 PM > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Jim > > > > > Grandfather is a term that we use in respect for the Creator of > >life. > > > > > And as a student of anthroplogy I also know about the flight or > >fight > > > > > reasoning that humans have. This instinct is what has enabled our > > > >species > > > > > to survive. The offering that I refer to is the respect that we give > >to > > > >the > > > > > animals spirit and acknowledging that we all are part of the circle > >of > > > >life. > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Jim Morrison, Jr." <jmorsn@coastalnet.com> > > > > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > >Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 08:42:23 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > >Elk > > > > > >Is your "Grand Father" the same as mine? Who is your supreme being? > > > > > > > > > > > >An "offering" would be like a "gift". The only animal that has the > > > > > >intelligence to make that decission is "MAN". We have a natural > > > >instinct > > > > > >called "Flight or Fight". All "animals" will rather fight than > >die!! > > > > > >Jim > > > > > > > > > > > >jmorsn@coastalnet.com > > > > > >http://www2.coastalnet.com/~g7d3j4nb/ > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > >From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > >Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 6:19 AM > > > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Jim > > > > > > > #1 question > > > > > > > Another word for the supreme being > > > > > > > #2 the offering of its life > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Jim Morrison, Jr." <jmorsn@coastalnet.com> > > > > > > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > > >Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 01:23:34 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Two quick questions: > > > > > > > >1) Who is "Grand Father"? > > > > > > > >2) The ANIMAL is giving an offering when IT is killed? > > > > > > > >Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >jmorsn@coastalnet.com > > > > > > > >http://www2.coastalnet.com/~g7d3j4nb/ > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > >From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > >Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 10:36 PM > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Dennis > > > > > > > > > I am sorry if I offended you in anyway. My intrest is in > >all > > > > > >things > > > > > > > > > Choctaw. and Spirituality is one of the aspects of it. To > > > >understand > > > > > > > >Indian > > > > > > > > > people you have to dig deep into their thought pattern. When > > > >they > > > > > >killed > > > > > > > > > animals for food and clothing they said a prayer To > >Grandfather > > > >for > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > > offering that the animal gave and gave respect to the animal > > > >also. > > > > > >When > > > > > > > >they > > > > > > > > > did beadwork they put part of their spirit in it also. when > >a > > > >object > > > > > >was > > > > > > > > > discarded it was done with respect. Spirtuality was > >considered > > > >in > > > > > >all > > > > > > > >things > > > > > > > > > done. That is one of the reasons that the Europeans that > >came > > > >here > > > > > > > > > misunderstood our people and their ways. > > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Dennis Boswell <dennisb@primenet.com> > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > > > > >Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 09:56:57 -0800 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Message for Elkdreamer and Dusty: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Regarding who subscribes to CHAHTA-L and why, permit me to > > > >suggest > > > > > >that > > > > > > > > > >this list very likely has Choctaw and non-Choctaw > >subscribers. > > > > > >Among > > > > > > > >both > > > > > > > > > >groups, there are those who have an exclusive interest in > > > >religion > > > > > >all > > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > > >way to those who have an exclusive interest in some other > > > >aspect > > > >of > > > > > > > >Choctaw > > > > > > > > > >life but no interest at all in religion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >In my case, I find Choctaw religious beliefs and the recent > > > > > >discussion > > > > > > > > > >surrounding them educational and thought provoking. > >However, > >my > > > > > > > >personal > > > > > > > > > >interest does not directly concern Choctaw religion. It is > >very > > > > > >narrow > > > > > > > >and > > > > > > > > > >concerns central Mississippi, pre-removal Choctaw social > >and > > > >family > > > > > > > > > >customs, very narrowly defined examples of the Choctaw > >language > > > >as > > > > > > > >about > > > > > > > > > >1800, relationships with early white settlers, trails and > >paths > > > > > > > >followed > > > > > > > >by > > > > > > > > > >these Choctaw in relationship to today's central > >Mississippi > > > >county > > > > > > > > > >boundaries and the impact of removal on these same Choctaw > >with > > > > > > > >specific > > > > > > > > > >emphasis on the Durant Choctaw clan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >If I unsubscribe, which I will do one day (to return at a > >later > > > > > >date), > > > > > > > >it > > > > > > > > > >will have nothing to do with whether I do or do not "learn > > > >other > > > > > > > >religious > > > > > > > > > >views," "heat in the kitchen" or "sensitive subjects." It > >will > > > >have > > > > > > > > > >everything to do with the fact that I subscribe to about > > > > > >thirty-five > > > > > > > >lists, > > > > > > > > > >receive mountains of email and have priorities on my time > >and > > > >my > > > > > > > >interests > > > > > > > > > >that are quite different than anyone else on this list - a > > > >comment > > > > > >that > > > > > > > > > >about everyone of you can make. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Recognize that one of the wonderful aspects of CHAHTA-L (in > > > > > >comparison > > > > > > > >with > > > > > > > > > >virtually all na hollo lists) is the diversity of thought, > > > > > >background, > > > > > > > > > >education and perspective it offers. Were I to make one > > > >suggestion > > > > > >to > > > > > > > >those > > > > > > > > > >of you who clearly dominate this list, please guard against > > > > > >becoming > > > > > > > >too > > > > > > > > > >clannish lest the very diversity that enriches this site > >might > > > >in > > > > > >time > > > > > > > > > >vanish leaving something less in its wake than you enjoy > >today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >At 08:50 AM 03/31/2001 -0800, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > >>Halito Dusty and All list members > > > > > > > > > >> I believe that we all have the right to believe in the > >way > > > >that > > > > > >we > > > > > > > >want > > > > > > > > > >>to. And in this aspect the right to discuss our and each > > > >others > > > > > >views > > > > > > > >in > > > > > > > > > >>a intellegent and Adult way. Aparentlly the ones that left > > > >will > > > >in > > > > > >no > > > > > > > >way > > > > > > > > > >>ever learn that there are other views than their own. Like > >I > > > >have > > > > > > > >always > > > > > > > > > >>been told if you can't stand the heat get out of the > >kitchen. > > > >I > > > > > >guess > > > > > > > > > >>that is what they did. Lets keep up the heat I'm having > >fun. > > > > > > > > > >> Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > > >> Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >>>From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > > > > >>>Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > >>>To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > >>>Subject: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > > > > >>>Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 09:38:58 -0600 > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>>We lost another 5 listmembers this morning. Don't know > >for > > > >what > > > > > > > >reason. > > > > > > > > > >>>While I suspect sensitive subject matter may be the > >reason, > > > >this > > > > > >is > > > > > > > >only > > > > > > > > > >>>a > > > > > > > > > >>>supposition on my part. I have absolutely no objection > >to > > > >the > > > > > >topic > > > > > > > > > >>>continuing if that's what you guys want. Among other > > > > > >peculiarities > > > > > > > >and > > > > > > > > > >>>character faults, I happen to wholeheartedly support the > > > >First > > > > > > > >Amendment > > > > > > > > > >>>on > > > > > > > > > >>>this particular topic. What do you guys think?? > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>>dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > >Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > > > > > > >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > > > >http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't > >post > >it > > > >to > > > > > >the > > > > > > > >list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > > > > > > > >CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > >Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > > > > >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > >http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > >Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > > >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information. Visit Rusty Lang's pages at > > > >http://www.choctaw-web.com for articles, censuses, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > >Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > >TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > >Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

Read again, Creeks by blood are shown the age they were when they enrolled - on that date. And to find out what that date was you have to get a copy of their census card. I use 1902-1906 as a general area to figure age. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: faynshep <faynshep@telapex.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 2:26 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Dawes info.? > What about Creeks by Blood? > Fay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 12:39 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Dawes info.? > > > > Some groups are dated as of 1902. Other groups are dated as of different > > dates. Here's the way it breaks down: > > > > Choctaws by Blood, Sept. 25, 1902 > > Newborn Choctaws, March 4, 1905 > > Minor Choctaws, Marhc 4, 1906 > > Intermarried Choctaws, Sept. 25, 1902 > > Choctaw Freedmen, Sept. 25, 1902 > > Minor Choctaw Freedmen, March 4, 1906 > > > > Mississippi Choctaws, Sept. 25, 1902 > > Newborn Miss. Choctaw, March 4, 1905 > > Minor Miss. Choctaw, March 4, 1906 > > > > Chickasaws, Sept. 25, 1902 > > Newborn Chickasaw, March 4, 1905 > > Minor Chickasaw, March 4, 1906 > > Intermarried Chickasaw, Sept. 25, 1902 > > Chickasaw Freedmen, 'Sept. 25, 1902 > > > > Cherokee by Blood, Sept. 1, 1902 > > Minor Cherokee, March 4, 1905 > > Delaware Cherokee-no date shown on roll > > Intermarried Cherokee-no date shown > > Cherokee Freedmen-no date shown > > Minor Cherokee Freedmen-March 4, 1907 > > > > Creeks by Blood-age is shown as of date of enrollment. In order to > > calculate age it is necessary to have a copy of census card showing date > of > > enrollment > > Newborn Creeks-age as of enrollment date > > Minor Creek-age as of enrollment date > > Creek Freedmen-age as of enrollment date > > Minor Creek Freedmen-age age of enrollment date > > > > Seminole by Blood-Dec. 31, 1899 > > Seminole Freedmen-March 3, 1905 > > Minor Seminoles-March 3, 1905 > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Elkdreamer Wilkins <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 9:32 AM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Dawes info.? > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > On the Nail site the first page has the year that it was done. It was > > > in 1902. > > > Walk in Beauty > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > >From: faynshep <faynshep@telapex.com> > > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Dawes info.? > > > >Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 21:35:46 -0700 > > > > > > > >But how do you know what year that roll was done? I'm thinking there > is > > > >some broad span of years. Do you just have to wait until you get the > > > >packet > > > >and then will you be able to find out about when they were born? > > > >Fay > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > >Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:19 PM > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Dawes info.? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, age is listed on the Dawes roll. You calculate it from the > year > > > >that > > > > > particular roll was done. > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: faynshep <faynshep@telapex.com> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:06 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Dawes info.? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know, it tells you so much but it doesn't say what year that > > > > > information > > > > > > was taken so you don't know when a person was born. I will call > them > > > >and > > > > > see > > > > > > if I can order over the phone. > > > > > > Fay > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 7:22 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Dawes info.? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can tell you what family members are listed on the same census > > > >card, > > > > > > > sometimes helping people to recognize if a name is their > ancestor > > or > > > > > not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seems to me like I have been told you can do this over the phone > > > >with > > > > > > credit > > > > > > > card. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: faynshep <faynshep@telapex.com> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:14 AM > > > > > > > Subject: [CHAHTA] Dawes info.? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dusty, Can you order a packet over the phone and pay with a > > credit > > > > > card? > > > > > > > > I have a name, age, census number, and roll number. Is there > > any > > > >more > > > > > > > info. > > > > > > > > on what you have? > > > > > > > > Fay > > > > > > > > Don't ever give up.!!!! > > > > > > > > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/gedcoms/ratcliff/ > > > > > > > > List owner HOLDEN-L, SCHIFANO-L > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without > > the > > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without > the > > > >quotes > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > >TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > >Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the > quotes > > > >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Choctaw Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

All is well put thats for sure. I have always tried to teach my children to say Yes Sir and No Sir and Yes Mame and No Mame.( Boy I don't think I spelled that right <):-) Some people think thats not right but to always respect your ELDERS is what I have always been taught. My Dad taught me that and I do love him for that. There are so many children who don't say that I have always been told that my children were so polite and I feel that me teaching them that my Father taught me is why they feel that way about my children. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 11:13 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > Makes perfect sense. Very similar to the way I was raised. The fact that > we were "Indian" was hardly ever brought up. I can't remember ever being > told that something was the "Indian" way to act....just the "right" way to > act. > > dusty > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tsa na Jordan <medicgirl78@yahoo.com> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 11:13 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > You know, as I look back on my "raising", I see that even though we were > > told that we were Cherokee/Choctaw, we weren't given the religous culture > in > > detail, but we were raised to follow the general Indian beliefs. Such as: > > environmental protection, respect to animals, and respect of elders. I > had > > always thought of these as general "good ethics", but the more I look at > > people and the older I get, I realize that these were taught to me because > > they were taught to my father, and his father, and his father, etc. They > > were a "way of life" not something that my elders really thought about, > just > > the way they had lived and those before them had lived. Does this make > > sense? I'm not so good at putting this stuff down in black and white. > > Take care and go safely! > > Tsana > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 9:32 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > Dusty one of the things I see as I am out and about doing shows and > > talking > > > to people is those people who connect with their long ago indigenous > > > Ancestors seem to have a better grasp of taking care of community and > the > > > Earth.It is those who can't seem to find the connection that have a > > problem > > > with hearing. Arla > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 4:10 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > The problem seems to be, with people who have no Indian blood, getting > > > them > > > > to LISTEN. The native people of this country are far more in tune > with > > > what > > > > is going on re this continent than the invaders, but those who are all > > > into > > > > technology and the worship of man's knowledge rather than Gods > knowledge > > > > seem to screw everything up and then wonder what happened to make > > things > > > go > > > > wrong. IMHO > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 2:01 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those who have grown up in Indian communities but seem to have no > > > > knowledge > > > > > of their own spirituality are still aware of something inside that > is > > > > > different, even if they don't know what it is.(Because of the thick > > > > > assimilation) > > > > > And it is my hope that more of our people will recognise that we are > > not > > > > > "second class" and that our spirituality is not just a matter of > > > > "beliefs", > > > > > and that it is not "inferior" to the spirituality any other race of > > > > > people...It is also my hope that those non-Indians who can learn a > > > better > > > > > way of living in balance from Indians, or whoever, will do so... > > > > > B. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Gemma West" <gemmawest@usa.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:35 PM > > > > > Subject: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > > > > trying > > > > > to > > > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit > > in. > > > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's > defintions > > of > > > > > good > > > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to > look > > to > > > > > their > > > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. > > It > > > is > > > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological > characteristics. > > > It > > > > is > > > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad > thing > > is > > > > > that > > > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > > > > Indians > > > > > and > > > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is > > finding > > > > the > > > > > few > > > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it > > causes > > > us > > > > > to > > > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they > here > > > to > > > > > get? > > > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about > > this > > > > > reverse > > > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our > > own > > > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live > > with. > > > > > This > > > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. > > If > > > we > > > > > can > > > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great > thing. > > > > > After > > > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world > > > shaped > > > > > by > > > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > > > > balance. > > > > > It > > > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something > we > > > went > > > > > to > > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born > in > > > us > > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a > > > white > > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some > things, > > > but > > > > > they > > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts > to > > > put > > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at > > > best > > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > > B. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > > everyone's > > > > > > slings > > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just > think > > > > our > > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've > had > > > > > > countless > > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as > long > > > as > > > > > it's > > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways > because > > it > > > > > works > > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > > derogatory > > > > > name. > > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do > so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? > > > Isn't > > > > > that > > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian > > > blood > > > > at > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without > the > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at > > > http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > quotes > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to > the > > > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > > > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Need more CHOCTAW information. Visit Rusty Lang's pages at > > http://www.choctaw-web.com for articles, censuses, etc. > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ >

Dusty I love it!!!!! Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 11:27 AM Subject: [CHAHTA] INDIAN JOke > I have another groaner, but it doesn't work when written out....only when > spoken: > > "Have you heard about the new white > wine?.......................................... > > > > (nasally) "Why can't WE have casino's too????) > > Best told over dinner in a restaurant when folks are ordering wine. > > dusty > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

Hi Tsana, Maybe that the reason the gov did what they did if we were all together we would have had a lot more strength to over power them. If they scattered out our people they had a much better chance. Our people were sent to another land they didn't know and were like sheep in a field. They didn't know their land and didn't have any protection. With less people to withstand the terror they must have felt it made them feel like little lambs. I do know they did the best they could and should be given the PRAISE they deserve. Thats why I am searching so hard for my ancestors. I want so bad to find out where they migrated from. I know they moved to Okla Indian Territory in the mid 1880's from somewhere in Texas but I want to know where my GGGrandfather and GGGrandMother migrated from. I know it had to be from La. or Mississippi but I'm not for sure. It breaks my heart to think what the goverment put our ancestors thru to make them leave their homelands during the winter. It was so hot in that area and Okla is much colder that the Southern States. Our people didn't know what winter was I don't think till they hit Okla Indian Territory. I really get upset to know they were taken from their land and moved, some didn't even have blankets. My heart crys out to our ancestors and I give them all the PRAISE for their courage. Regards, Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tsa na Jordan" <medicgirl78@yahoo.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 11:41 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Were all Brothers and Sisters > Linda, > You are sooo right. In fact, we all know, if we look at history, that's > one of the problems the Indians had. Had they banned together, they could > have done better. But, they were divided and easy conquering for the > whites. Just thoughts and my own opinion. > Take care and go safely! > Tsana > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Linda Branum <mamalin@1s.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:11 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Were all Brothers and Sisters > > > > Hi Dusty and all, > > I want to say that my brother looks full blood Indian but we are just > > 1/32. I don't look a bit like and Indian but I have the same amt of blood > as > > he does. > > I feel the amt of Indian doesn't matter. We are all brothers and sisters > > just some of us have proof and others don't. > > I think we should all remember TOGETHER WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL. All of > > us need to unite together and stop worring about how much blood we have > but > > our people were all at one time full blood so who cares if you are full or > > just a little. You are still my sister and brother and all are NA. > > Regards, Linda Kirby Branum > > > > (Guynes and Sain are my Indian heritage surnames) Guynes being Choctaw > and > > documented and Sain Cherokee undocumented. But I feel ancestors calling > from > > both!! > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 8:29 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > Gemma and all: > > > > > > I am intrigued and challenged by your question, "Does the community > still > > > exist." I have pondered this question for many years and under many > > > different circumstances., and would like to get some feedback from other > > > listmembers. > > > > > > What is the state of the Indian community today..... > > > Specifically, WHAT IS AN INDIAN? Is it a matter of blood quantum? > > > Lifestyle? Beliefs? > > > > > > There can be no argument that there is definite predjudice among NA as > to > > > "who is Indian" and who is not. There are "skins" and there are > "bloods". > > > Why the separation? What does it take to be considered "Indian enough". > > > Are some NAs practicing a racism they would decry in other races.? > Don't > > > quote me the government's definition of Indian, I'm well aware of that. > > > > > > I want the opinions of others on this list. > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: David and Tommie Marsters <haili65@proaxis.com> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:30 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > Well put, Gemma. I agree. > > > > Tommie > > > > > > > > Gemma West wrote: > > > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > > > trying to > > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit > in. > > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions > of > > > good > > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look > to > > > their > > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. > It > > is > > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. > > It > > > is > > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing > is > > > that > > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > > > Indians and > > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is > finding > > > the few > > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it > causes > > us > > > to > > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they here > > to > > > get? > > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about > this > > > reverse > > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our > own > > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live > with. > > > This > > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. > If > > we > > > can > > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great thing. > > > After > > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world > > shaped > > > by > > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > > > balance. It > > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we > > went > > > to > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in > > us > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a > > white > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, > > but > > > they > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to > > put > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at > > best > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > B. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > everyone's > > > > > slings > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think > > > our > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > > > > > countless > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long > > as > > > it's > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because > it > > > works > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > derogatory > > > name. > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? > > Isn't > > > that > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian > > blood > > > at > > > > > all > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > > quotes > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at > > http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > quotes > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

That was the idea! Divide and conquer! There was a deliberate policy of inciting competition/strife by division to maintain control. Add to that the documented attempts at genocide/assimilation from the English on the east coast on down through today's government and it's hard for me to understand why the leaders of today's nations can't see they are still playing into the hands of these old policies by excluding distant descendants. IMHO every nation needs to drop its reliance on government handouts that are encouraging exclusion, and institute new enrollment policies. Think what a political power NA's could be! But that's not going to happen. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Tsa na Jordan <medicgirl78@yahoo.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 11:41 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Were all Brothers and Sisters > Linda, > You are sooo right. In fact, we all know, if we look at history, that's > one of the problems the Indians had. Had they banned together, they could > have done better. But, they were divided and easy conquering for the > whites. Just thoughts and my own opinion. > Take care and go safely! > Tsana > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Linda Branum <mamalin@1s.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:11 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Were all Brothers and Sisters > > > > Hi Dusty and all, > > I want to say that my brother looks full blood Indian but we are just > > 1/32. I don't look a bit like and Indian but I have the same amt of blood > as > > he does. > > I feel the amt of Indian doesn't matter. We are all brothers and sisters > > just some of us have proof and others don't. > > I think we should all remember TOGETHER WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL. All of > > us need to unite together and stop worring about how much blood we have > but > > our people were all at one time full blood so who cares if you are full or > > just a little. You are still my sister and brother and all are NA. > > Regards, Linda Kirby Branum > > > > (Guynes and Sain are my Indian heritage surnames) Guynes being Choctaw > and > > documented and Sain Cherokee undocumented. But I feel ancestors calling > from > > both!! > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 8:29 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > Gemma and all: > > > > > > I am intrigued and challenged by your question, "Does the community > still > > > exist." I have pondered this question for many years and under many > > > different circumstances., and would like to get some feedback from other > > > listmembers. > > > > > > What is the state of the Indian community today..... > > > Specifically, WHAT IS AN INDIAN? Is it a matter of blood quantum? > > > Lifestyle? Beliefs? > > > > > > There can be no argument that there is definite predjudice among NA as > to > > > "who is Indian" and who is not. There are "skins" and there are > "bloods". > > > Why the separation? What does it take to be considered "Indian enough". > > > Are some NAs practicing a racism they would decry in other races.? > Don't > > > quote me the government's definition of Indian, I'm well aware of that. > > > > > > I want the opinions of others on this list. > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: David and Tommie Marsters <haili65@proaxis.com> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:30 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > Well put, Gemma. I agree. > > > > Tommie > > > > > > > > Gemma West wrote: > > > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > > > trying to > > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit > in. > > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions > of > > > good > > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look > to > > > their > > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. > It > > is > > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. > > It > > > is > > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing > is > > > that > > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > > > Indians and > > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is > finding > > > the few > > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it > causes > > us > > > to > > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they here > > to > > > get? > > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about > this > > > reverse > > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our > own > > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live > with. > > > This > > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. > If > > we > > > can > > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great thing. > > > After > > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world > > shaped > > > by > > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > > > balance. It > > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we > > went > > > to > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in > > us > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a > > white > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, > > but > > > they > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to > > put > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at > > best > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > B. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > everyone's > > > > > slings > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think > > > our > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > > > > > countless > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long > > as > > > it's > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because > it > > > works > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > derogatory > > > name. > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? > > Isn't > > > that > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian > > blood > > > at > > > > > all > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > > quotes > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at > > http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > quotes > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

They're STILL THERE???? That was months ago!! dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: faynshep <faynshep@telapex.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 1:36 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] PROBLEMS ON PINE RIDGE-ROSEBUD > They are still in the Red Cloud building. The new administration that took > over, is doing the same things. The money they get their hands on, are > going into their pockets or the pockets of their friends and family members. > How they can do these things to their own people amazes me. Greed is a > great destroyer. These people need a healing from the inside out. I'm > afraid that there are very few left with the ability to stand up and be > counted. They are tired and weary, their strength is depleted. About the > clothes that have been thrown away, Iris told me "If you send anything to > the Council House, they will go through it, keep the money and anything else > they want and throw away the rest." > Fay > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 9:11 PM > Subject: [CHAHTA] PROBLEMS ON PINE RIDGE-ROSEBUD > > > > IMHO, the leaders at Rosebud and Pine Ridge are responsible for the > > poverty-striken condition some of their people live in. Time and time > again > > those leaders have been plagued with accusations of scandal, skimming of > > tribal funds, etc. They steadfastly refuse to take MILLIONS of dollars > > money that has been offered to them by the government. Their leaders are > > willing to let their own people freeze and starve to death (and that is > > happening every winter) rather than compromise with outsiders who are > > offering help. > > > > Last year things got so bad that the tribal headquarters was taken over by > a > > group of protestors, including elders. who closed it down and inhabited it > > for days. One woman with several children who had been trying to months > to > > get relief money just moved her mattresses into the receptionists office > and > > set up camp, saying she would live there until they could find her a place > > for herself and her children to live. They kept in touch with the outside > > via radio. Finally, after resorting to calling in the state police, the > > tribal council agreed to meet with the protestors. > > > > I have, in the past, sent aid in the form of cash and clothing to a few of > > the people in that area through relief agencies and individuals dedicated > to > > works of charity. The boxes of clothing (much of it brand new with the > > tags still on) were found dumped under a bridge near Rosebud and since our > > return address was written on it, the person who found it wrote and told > us. > > > > It's up to the LEADERS of those tribes to get off their duffs and help > their > > own people. They have time and time again refused outside aid and must be > > held responsible for their actions by their own people. They must heal > > themselves internally first. IMHO > > > > dusty > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: faynshep <faynshep@telapex.com> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 11:52 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Re: THANKS TO OUR ANCESTORS > > > > > > > I'm sorry, but according to my friend Iris with the Lakota Sioux on the > > Pine > > > Ridge reservation, she was helping me to gather information on a family > > that > > > I could help out this winter personally by going straight to them > instead > > of > > > some organization and paying them some sort of fee. The family she > found > > > for me was an elderly man named Ross and his grandson Mathew. Ross and > > > Mathew were in the dark and in the cold because their "guardian" had not > > > paid their light bill or paid for them some butane. With all the > millions > > > and millions that this country owes to the Native Americans, I took a > > small > > > $20.00 and mailed Ross and Mathew a blanket, socks, caps, and some food. > > > Now, you tell me who needs repriations? > > > Fay > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 6:28 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Re: THANKS TO OUR ANCESTORS > > > > > > > > > > Those limitations on being able to do business without a legal > guardian > > > for > > > > 1/2 or fullbloods were called "restrictions", and that law as formally > > > > struck down around the turn of the century, I believe. I can't put my > > > hand > > > > on the exact date at the moment. > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Choctaw Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Need more CHOCTAW information. Visit Rusty Lang's pages at http://www.choctaw-web.com for articles, censuses, etc. >

I have another groaner, but it doesn't work when written out....only when spoken: "Have you heard about the new white wine?.......................................... (nasally) "Why can't WE have casino's too????) Best told over dinner in a restaurant when folks are ordering wine. dusty

I use that joke with the children. They LOVE it! dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 10:08 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > LOL :) > That's why I often use the word Aboriginal...it's accurate and doesn't > offend my own senses or anyone else's. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Chata1507@aol.com> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:02 AM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > As many of my friends have commented we can be glad Columbus wasn't > looking > > for turkey. > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Need more CHOCTAW information. Visit Rusty Lang's pages at > http://www.choctaw-web.com for articles, censuses, etc. > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

Makes perfect sense. Very similar to the way I was raised. The fact that we were "Indian" was hardly ever brought up. I can't remember ever being told that something was the "Indian" way to act....just the "right" way to act. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Tsa na Jordan <medicgirl78@yahoo.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 11:13 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > You know, as I look back on my "raising", I see that even though we were > told that we were Cherokee/Choctaw, we weren't given the religous culture in > detail, but we were raised to follow the general Indian beliefs. Such as: > environmental protection, respect to animals, and respect of elders. I had > always thought of these as general "good ethics", but the more I look at > people and the older I get, I realize that these were taught to me because > they were taught to my father, and his father, and his father, etc. They > were a "way of life" not something that my elders really thought about, just > the way they had lived and those before them had lived. Does this make > sense? I'm not so good at putting this stuff down in black and white. > Take care and go safely! > Tsana > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 9:32 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > Dusty one of the things I see as I am out and about doing shows and > talking > > to people is those people who connect with their long ago indigenous > > Ancestors seem to have a better grasp of taking care of community and the > > Earth.It is those who can't seem to find the connection that have a > problem > > with hearing. Arla > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 4:10 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > The problem seems to be, with people who have no Indian blood, getting > > them > > > to LISTEN. The native people of this country are far more in tune with > > what > > > is going on re this continent than the invaders, but those who are all > > into > > > technology and the worship of man's knowledge rather than Gods knowledge > > > seem to screw everything up and then wonder what happened to make > things > > go > > > wrong. IMHO > > > > > > dusty > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 2:01 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > Those who have grown up in Indian communities but seem to have no > > > knowledge > > > > of their own spirituality are still aware of something inside that is > > > > different, even if they don't know what it is.(Because of the thick > > > > assimilation) > > > > And it is my hope that more of our people will recognise that we are > not > > > > "second class" and that our spirituality is not just a matter of > > > "beliefs", > > > > and that it is not "inferior" to the spirituality any other race of > > > > people...It is also my hope that those non-Indians who can learn a > > better > > > > way of living in balance from Indians, or whoever, will do so... > > > > B. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Gemma West" <gemmawest@usa.net> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:35 PM > > > > Subject: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > > > trying > > > > to > > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit > in. > > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions > of > > > > good > > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look > to > > > > their > > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. > It > > is > > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. > > It > > > is > > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing > is > > > > that > > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > > > Indians > > > > and > > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is > finding > > > the > > > > few > > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it > causes > > us > > > > to > > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they here > > to > > > > get? > > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about > this > > > > reverse > > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our > own > > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live > with. > > > > This > > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. > If > > we > > > > can > > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great thing. > > > > After > > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world > > shaped > > > > by > > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > > > balance. > > > > It > > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we > > went > > > > to > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in > > us > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a > > white > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, > > but > > > > they > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to > > put > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at > > best > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > B. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > everyone's > > > > > slings > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think > > > our > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > > > > > countless > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long > > as > > > > it's > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because > it > > > > works > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > derogatory > > > > name. > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? > > Isn't > > > > that > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian > > blood > > > at > > > > > all > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > > quotes > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at > > http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > quotes > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the > > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Need more CHOCTAW information. Visit Rusty Lang's pages at > http://www.choctaw-web.com for articles, censuses, etc. > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

Ha HA Faye, I was that way too. I wondered what BRB was for a long time too before I asked. I knew when they put that on it was a while before they would answer me. I did ask and they tolde me BE RIGHT BACK.....funny it never clicked with me until then. Guess we learn something everyday. Regards, Linda Kirby Branum ----- Original Message ----- From: "faynshep" <faynshep@telapex.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 1:57 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] IMHO? Dusty > I don't either. When I first got on this list, I kept seeing LOL. Well, I > didn't want to ask but my sister that lives in TX teaches computer classes > and when she came to visit, I asked her what did LOL mean. She said, > laughed out loud or laughing out loud. I said oh, I thought it meant "Lord > O Lord". When I told Markie that, she said she laughed so hard her sides > hurt. > Fay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Linda Branum <mamalin@1s.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 7:47 AM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] IMHO? Dusty > > > > Hi Dusty, > > I am wondering what IMHO is. I know its like LOL and other puter slang > but > > I keep seeing this one and don't know what you mean????? > > Thanks Dusty, > > Linda Kirby Branum > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 8:13 AM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > IMHO if you feel you have the blood, then you probably do. It's those > > old > > > spirits calling to you. > > > > > > dusty > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Jim Morrison, Jr. <jmorsn@coastalnet.com> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 12:40 AM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > Elk > > > > What about those (ME!!) who feel that they are, ancestors were in the > > > proper > > > > geographical area at the right time frame, but just can not find the > > proof > > > > (or whatever you want to call it!!)? > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > jmorsn@coastalnet.com > > > > http://www2.coastalnet.com/~g7d3j4nb/ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 9:38 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian blood at > > all > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > >From: faynshep <faynshep@telapex.com> > > > > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > >Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 20:11:49 -0700 > > > > > > > > > > > >Excuse me, but, what is a twinkie? > > > > > >Fay > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > >From: Kim Collins <2buckets@arbuckleonline.com> > > > > > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 6:07 PM > > > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Elkdreamer, > > > > > > > Well said! And so true. > > > > > > > Kim IBSSG > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 7:14 AM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Gemma > > > > > > > > I was refering to people that have no Native American blood > in > > > > them > > > > > >at > > > > > > > > all. But I do feel for them because they are far removed from > > > their > > > > > > > > ancestors here in America. Our Old ones still walk with us > here. > > > > > > > > Walk in beauty > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Gemma West <gemmawest@usa.net> > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > >Subject: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > >Date: 3 Apr 2001 10:10:11 EDT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Who are you referring to when you say "they" ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >"Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > >Halito Gemma > > > > > > > > > My personal observations give me reason to believe that > they > > > can > > > > > >see > > > > > > > > >that > > > > > > > > >we have a more centered culture with the bones of our > Ancestors > > > > here > > > > > >with > > > > > > > > >us > > > > > > > > >to help guide our thoughts. They are trying to achive the > same > > > > > >connect > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > >we feel to our past. > > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Gemma West <gemmawest@usa.net> > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > >Subject: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > >Date: 2 Apr 2001 11:02:35 EDT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Sometimes I think the rush to investigate Indian ancestry > is > > > > rather > > > > > > > > >amusing > > > > > > > > > >also. After all, it has been estimated that only 7% of all > > > > > >Americans > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > >Indian blood. On the other hand it has been estimated that > > 20% > > > of > > > > > > > > > >European-Americans have African blood. For some reason, > > > however, > > > > > >there > > > > > > > > >has > > > > > > > > > >been no parallel rush to claim African blood. I have to > > wonder > > > > why. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >"Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >This is a good topic if anyone wants to tackle it within > > > > > > > > >guidelines....the > > > > > > > > > >words "twinkie" and "wannabe" and their usage by both NA's > > and > > > > > >whites. > > > > > > > > > >Also, the prejudices that make these words acceptable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >dusty > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > >From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > > > > > > > > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > > >Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 9:20 PM > > > > > > > > > >Subject: [CHAHTA] Something so funny.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Was listening to AIROS (www.airos.org/) > > > > > > > > > > > this morning and there was a comic on talking about a > > > twinkie > > > > > > > > >university > > > > > > > > > >called I Wannebe U....the whole routine was > hilarious....this > > > is > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > >Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't > post > > > it > > > > to > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > > >list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > > > > > > > > > >CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > >Get free email and a permanent address at > > > > > > > http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > >Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages > at > > > > > > > > > >http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > > http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > > >Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without > the > > > > > >quotes > > > > > > > > >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > >Get free email and a permanent address at > > > > > >http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > >Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > > > >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > > http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without > the > > > > quotes > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > >To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > >Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > quotes > > > > > >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the > > quotes > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the > quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Choctaw Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ >

Who knows what the future holds. Walk in Beauty Elkdreamer >From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Were all Brothers and Sisters >Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 11:44:53 -0500 > >That was the idea! Divide and conquer! There was a deliberate policy of >inciting competition/strife by division to maintain control. Add to that >the documented attempts at genocide/assimilation from the English on the >east coast on down through today's government and it's hard for me to >understand why the leaders of today's nations can't see they are still >playing into the hands of these old policies by excluding distant >descendants. > >IMHO every nation needs to drop its reliance on government handouts that >are >encouraging exclusion, and institute new enrollment policies. Think what a >political power NA's could be! But that's not going to happen. > >dusty > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Tsa na Jordan <medicgirl78@yahoo.com> >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 11:41 PM >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Were all Brothers and Sisters > > > > Linda, > > You are sooo right. In fact, we all know, if we look at history, >that's > > one of the problems the Indians had. Had they banned together, they >could > > have done better. But, they were divided and easy conquering for the > > whites. Just thoughts and my own opinion. > > Take care and go safely! > > Tsana > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Linda Branum <mamalin@1s.net> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:11 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Were all Brothers and Sisters > > > > > > > Hi Dusty and all, > > > I want to say that my brother looks full blood Indian but we are >just > > > 1/32. I don't look a bit like and Indian but I have the same amt of >blood > > as > > > he does. > > > I feel the amt of Indian doesn't matter. We are all brothers and >sisters > > > just some of us have proof and others don't. > > > I think we should all remember TOGETHER WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL. >All >of > > > us need to unite together and stop worring about how much blood we >have > > but > > > our people were all at one time full blood so who cares if you are >full >or > > > just a little. You are still my sister and brother and all are NA. > > > Regards, Linda Kirby Branum > > > > > > (Guynes and Sain are my Indian heritage surnames) Guynes being >Choctaw > > and > > > documented and Sain Cherokee undocumented. But I feel ancestors >calling > > from > > > both!! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 8:29 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > Gemma and all: > > > > > > > > I am intrigued and challenged by your question, "Does the community > > still > > > > exist." I have pondered this question for many years and under many > > > > different circumstances., and would like to get some feedback from >other > > > > listmembers. > > > > > > > > What is the state of the Indian community today..... > > > > Specifically, WHAT IS AN INDIAN? Is it a matter of blood quantum? > > > > Lifestyle? Beliefs? > > > > > > > > There can be no argument that there is definite predjudice among NA >as > > to > > > > "who is Indian" and who is not. There are "skins" and there are > > "bloods". > > > > Why the separation? What does it take to be considered "Indian >enough". > > > > Are some NAs practicing a racism they would decry in other races.? > > Don't > > > > quote me the government's definition of Indian, I'm well aware of >that. > > > > > > > > I want the opinions of others on this list. > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: David and Tommie Marsters <haili65@proaxis.com> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:30 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well put, Gemma. I agree. > > > > > Tommie > > > > > > > > > > Gemma West wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through >life > > > > trying to > > > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't >fit > > in. > > > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's >defintions > > of > > > > good > > > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to >look > > to > > > > their > > > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel >comfortable. > > It > > > is > > > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological >characteristics. > > > It > > > > is > > > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad >thing > > is > > > > that > > > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up >around > > > > Indians and > > > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is > > finding > > > > the few > > > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share >knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it > > causes > > > us > > > > to > > > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they >here > > > to > > > > get? > > > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about > > this > > > > reverse > > > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace >our > > own > > > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live > > with. > > > > This > > > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new >generations. > > If > > > we > > > > can > > > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great >thing. > > > > After > > > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a >world > > > shaped > > > > by > > > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > > > > balance. It > > > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something >we > > > went > > > > to > > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is >born >in > > > us > > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by >a > > > white > > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some >things, > > > but > > > > they > > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts >to > > > put > > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is >at > > > best > > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > > B. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > > everyone's > > > > > > slings > > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just >think > > > > our > > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've >had > > > > > > countless > > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as >long > > > as > > > > it's > > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways >because > > it > > > > works > > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > > derogatory > > > > name. > > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do >so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? > > > Isn't > > > > that > > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no >Indian > > > blood > > > > at > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without >the > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > >____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at > > > http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > quotes > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to >the > > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

LOL Walk in Beauty Elkdreamer >From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [CHAHTA] INDIAN JOke >Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 11:27:14 -0500 > >I have another groaner, but it doesn't work when written out....only when >spoken: > >"Have you heard about the new white >wine?.......................................... > > > >(nasally) "Why can't WE have casino's too????) > >Best told over dinner in a restaurant when folks are ordering wine. > >dusty > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: >Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

LOL :) That's why I often use the word Aboriginal...it's accurate and doesn't offend my own senses or anyone else's. ----- Original Message ----- From: <Chata1507@aol.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:02 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > As many of my friends have commented we can be glad Columbus wasn't looking > for turkey. > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Need more CHOCTAW information. Visit Rusty Lang's pages at http://www.choctaw-web.com for articles, censuses, etc. >