Very good point Patsy... B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patsy Caleb" <studentarchaeologist@home.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 10:01 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > in the days of their removal they were deemed to be uncivilized and this is > why they were moved > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 5:02 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > I'm sorry, Patsy - I don't follow the question. Where have you seen the > > term "Uncivilized tribes"??? > > > > dusty > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Patsy Caleb <studentarchaeologist@home.com> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 6:17 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > Dusty are there any records on the acts and so called criminal acts that > > the > > > choctaws did to get classified as "Uncivilized" as itn in the 5 > > uncivilized > > > tribes" > > > > > > got to be there somewhere huh > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 9:21 AM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > I use that joke with the children. They LOVE it! > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 10:08 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > LOL :) > > > > > That's why I often use the word Aboriginal...it's accurate and > doesn't > > > > > offend my own senses or anyone else's. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: <Chata1507@aol.com> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:02 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As many of my friends have commented we can be glad Columbus > wasn't > > > > > looking > > > > > > for turkey. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information. Visit Rusty Lang's pages at > > > > > http://www.choctaw-web.com for articles, censuses, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the > > quotes > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to > the > > > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > > > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Choctaw Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ >

I saw a program on the history channel that is almost opposite to that. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 9:16 PM Subject: [CHAHTA] FIVE CIVILIZED TRIBES > The Five Civilized Tribes (Choctaw-Cherokee-Creek-Seminole-Chickasaw) were > called "civilized" by the government because they were not nomadic, lived in > permanent communities, were amenable to European ideas and culture and had a > representative, centralized form of government. They were removed to Indian > Territory because they held the most desirable lands throughout the > southeast, and without removing them beyond the Mississippi River, those > lands could not be opened to encroaching white settlement. > > dusty > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ >

Kris: As someone has said previously, there is no such thing as a stupid question. There are some very knowledgeable folks on this list. If we don't know the answers, we will try to direct you to someone who does. Your input is valued. dusty List Admin. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kris Harapan <harapank@wwdb.org> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:01 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > Dusty, > > Not new to the list, but too new to studying my Choctaw heritage to know > where to begin asking questions. I have known since before I was in high > school that I was of NA descent. I tried to read about it then, but I got > upset reading about the history of removals and broken treaties. We lived > overseas and all I could get was extremely sanitized versions of history, > but it still made me mad. My mother took any such books away from me and > would not let me read about NA history again. She made quite an impression. > I haven't lived under her roof for over 10 years, but it has taken me this > long to find my way back where I first started my search. > > I may not have joined in the discussion, but I have learned from it. It has > helped me to give my personal search some badly needed focus. > > Keep the discussion going. When I know enough to ask the right questions, > I'll jump in. > > Thanks. > > Kris > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 12:58 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > Kris: > > > > Are you new to this list? That's what we've been doing the last week or > so. > > And in doing so, our list shrank from about 100 down to 68 as of this > > morning. In the past 10 days I've received mail that ranged from mild > > chiding to words that a sailor that had been to sea for seven years > wouldn't > > think of. Stick around, the subject will come back up again! <LOL> > > > > If you have questons, please ask. Someone here may be able to answer. > > > > dusty > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Kris Harapan <harapank@wwdb.org> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 10:22 AM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > Tsana, > > > > > > I second this. Having recently begun a spiritual quest of my own, I > have > > > been looking for a forum (online and off) that would support me in > asking > > > questions, without trying to force me onto a given path. I have just > left > > > that route behind, and would very much like to find the path that is > right > > > for me. What seems to be the hardest right now is finding a reputable > > > source for guidance into exploring new areas, and having a place where > it > > is > > > okay to have questions. Am open to any suggestions others might have. > > > > > > I know the recent discussions have been a bit hard on some, but I have > > found > > > it to be quite helpful. I know concern has been expressed about using > > this > > > forum for spiritual discussions, what would be the possibility of having > a > > > list for discussion of traditional Choctaw beliefs, the impact of > outside > > > religions on those beliefs, and how this impacts their descendents > today? > > > Would their be enough interest to support something like that? > > > > > > Kris > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Tsa na Jordan <medicgirl78@yahoo.com> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 9:52 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > Barbara, > > > > I, like, Patsy, beg to differ. The only difference, it seems, > > between > > > > you and I is that you had a chance to grow up with and learn the > Choctaw > > > > > > culture from your family, elders, etc. I, on the other hand, did not > > have > > > > that luxury. Now, it's no fault of mine, nor of my family. They did > > what > > > > they thought best for the family at the time. OK, so does that mean > > that > > > I > > > > am not as interested? NO. Does that mean that I can't learn a lot > > about > > > it > > > > from the internet, books, elders, other tribal members, etc.? NO. > Does > > > it > > > > mean that I can become as knowledgable as you who grew up with it? > YES. > > > I > > > > will probably never know all that you do, nor will that bother me. I > > want > > > > to learn my family's history and culture. Does it mean that I may > adopt > > > > some of the beliefs I learn about? PROBABLY since I've already > adopted > > > some > > > > of the Cherokee beliefs. Does it mean that you are a better "Indian" > > than > > > > I? NOPE. Does it mean that you are a better person, in general, than > > I? > > > > NOPE. > > > > I would appreciate your sharing some of the ways of the Choctaw > > since > > > > you are so educated in those ways. Now, I'm fully aware that there > are > > > some > > > > things that simply aren't meant to be on the internet, and I respect > > that. > > > > So, sister, I lay down my bundle of tobacco beside you and ask in a > good > > > > way - will you help me learn? I ask this with all respect. But, with > > the > > > > same respect I'm also saying that I don't want to debate or argue. If > > > > you're willing to sharing information, I'm your sponge, here to soak > it > > > all > > > > up! > > > > Thanks, Barbara! > > > > Tsana > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Patsy Caleb <studentarchaeologist@home.com> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:12 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > can i disagree to that because the more i learn about my choctaw > > > heritage > > > > > the more spiritual i become > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:49 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something > we > > > went > > > > > to > > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born > in > > > us > > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a > > > white > > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some > things, > > > but > > > > > they > > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts > to > > > put > > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at > > > best > > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > > B. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > > everyone's > > > > > > slings > > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just > think > > > > our > > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've > had > > > > > > countless > > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as > long > > > as > > > > > it's > > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways > because > > it > > > > > works > > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > > derogatory > > > > > name. > > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do > so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? > > > Isn't > > > > > that > > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian > > > blood > > > > at > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without > the > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > quotes > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the > quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Choctaw Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com >

I have been pursuing some research topics; and I have found some interesting works. One in particular is well documented piece of scholarship by Jack D. Forbes "who is of Native American" ancestry and is "director of Native Americal Studies at the University of California, Davis." The work, in particular, that I have just started to read is "Africans and Native Americans: The Language of Race and the Evolution of Red-Black Peoples", 2nd Edition. Univ. of Illinois Press, 1993. The volume explores "key issues relating to the evolution of racial terminology and European colonialists' perceptions of color, analyzing the development of color classification systems and the specific evolution of key terms which no longer carry their original meanings. Has any one on the list read the work and/or know anything about the author and his prior scholarship? If anyone has read or is interested in reading this piece; I would be welcome an opportunity to read and discuss it with you --either off-list (if it's not adjudged an allowable topic) or on-list (if it is accpeted as a discussion item). The book should be availabe from the library. thurman

in the days of their removal they were deemed to be uncivilized and this is why they were moved ----- Original Message ----- From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > I'm sorry, Patsy - I don't follow the question. Where have you seen the > term "Uncivilized tribes"??? > > dusty > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Patsy Caleb <studentarchaeologist@home.com> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 6:17 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > Dusty are there any records on the acts and so called criminal acts that > the > > choctaws did to get classified as "Uncivilized" as itn in the 5 > uncivilized > > tribes" > > > > got to be there somewhere huh > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 9:21 AM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > I use that joke with the children. They LOVE it! > > > > > > dusty > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 10:08 AM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > LOL :) > > > > That's why I often use the word Aboriginal...it's accurate and doesn't > > > > offend my own senses or anyone else's. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: <Chata1507@aol.com> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:02 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > As many of my friends have commented we can be glad Columbus wasn't > > > > looking > > > > > for turkey. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information. Visit Rusty Lang's pages at > > > > http://www.choctaw-web.com for articles, censuses, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the > quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the > > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

email me the piece i studey anthropology and archaeology ----- Original Message ----- From: Thurman & Elizabeth Harrison <harriso5@ix.netcom.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 5:42 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > I have been pursuing some research topics; and I have found some interesting > works. One in particular is well documented piece of scholarship by Jack D. > Forbes "who is of Native American" ancestry and is "director of Native > Americal Studies at the University of California, Davis." The work, in > particular, that I have just started to read is "Africans and Native > Americans: The Language of Race and the Evolution of Red-Black Peoples", 2nd > Edition. Univ. of Illinois Press, 1993. > > The volume explores "key issues relating to the evolution of racial > terminology and European colonialists' perceptions of color, analyzing the > development of color classification systems and the specific evolution of > key terms which no longer carry their original meanings. > > Has any one on the list read the work and/or know anything about the author > and his prior scholarship? > > If anyone has read or is interested in reading this piece; I would be > welcome an opportunity to read and discuss it with you --either off-list (if > it's not adjudged an allowable topic) or on-list (if it is accpeted as a > discussion item). > > The book should be availabe from the library. > > thurman > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Choctaw Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ >

Halito Kris How are you going to know if you know enough if you don't ask question's now. The only stupid question is the one not asked. Jump in and get your feet wet<G> Walk in Beauty Elkdreamer >From: "Kris Harapan" <harapank@wwdb.org> >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies >Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 17:01:56 -0700 > >Dusty, > >Not new to the list, but too new to studying my Choctaw heritage to know >where to begin asking questions. I have known since before I was in high >school that I was of NA descent. I tried to read about it then, but I got >upset reading about the history of removals and broken treaties. We lived >overseas and all I could get was extremely sanitized versions of history, >but it still made me mad. My mother took any such books away from me and >would not let me read about NA history again. She made quite an >impression. >I haven't lived under her roof for over 10 years, but it has taken me this >long to find my way back where I first started my search. > >I may not have joined in the discussion, but I have learned from it. It >has >helped me to give my personal search some badly needed focus. > >Keep the discussion going. When I know enough to ask the right questions, >I'll jump in. > >Thanks. > >Kris >----- Original Message ----- >From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 12:58 PM >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > Kris: > > > > Are you new to this list? That's what we've been doing the last week or >so. > > And in doing so, our list shrank from about 100 down to 68 as of this > > morning. In the past 10 days I've received mail that ranged from mild > > chiding to words that a sailor that had been to sea for seven years >wouldn't > > think of. Stick around, the subject will come back up again! <LOL> > > > > If you have questons, please ask. Someone here may be able to answer. > > > > dusty > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Kris Harapan <harapank@wwdb.org> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 10:22 AM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > Tsana, > > > > > > I second this. Having recently begun a spiritual quest of my own, I >have > > > been looking for a forum (online and off) that would support me in >asking > > > questions, without trying to force me onto a given path. I have just >left > > > that route behind, and would very much like to find the path that is >right > > > for me. What seems to be the hardest right now is finding a reputable > > > source for guidance into exploring new areas, and having a place where >it > > is > > > okay to have questions. Am open to any suggestions others might have. > > > > > > I know the recent discussions have been a bit hard on some, but I have > > found > > > it to be quite helpful. I know concern has been expressed about using > > this > > > forum for spiritual discussions, what would be the possibility of >having >a > > > list for discussion of traditional Choctaw beliefs, the impact of >outside > > > religions on those beliefs, and how this impacts their descendents >today? > > > Would their be enough interest to support something like that? > > > > > > Kris > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Tsa na Jordan <medicgirl78@yahoo.com> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 9:52 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > Barbara, > > > > I, like, Patsy, beg to differ. The only difference, it seems, > > between > > > > you and I is that you had a chance to grow up with and learn the >Choctaw > > > > > > culture from your family, elders, etc. I, on the other hand, did >not > > have > > > > that luxury. Now, it's no fault of mine, nor of my family. They >did > > what > > > > they thought best for the family at the time. OK, so does that mean > > that > > > I > > > > am not as interested? NO. Does that mean that I can't learn a lot > > about > > > it > > > > from the internet, books, elders, other tribal members, etc.? NO. >Does > > > it > > > > mean that I can become as knowledgable as you who grew up with it? >YES. > > > I > > > > will probably never know all that you do, nor will that bother me. >I > > want > > > > to learn my family's history and culture. Does it mean that I may >adopt > > > > some of the beliefs I learn about? PROBABLY since I've already >adopted > > > some > > > > of the Cherokee beliefs. Does it mean that you are a better >"Indian" > > than > > > > I? NOPE. Does it mean that you are a better person, in general, >than > > I? > > > > NOPE. > > > > I would appreciate your sharing some of the ways of the Choctaw > > since > > > > you are so educated in those ways. Now, I'm fully aware that there >are > > > some > > > > things that simply aren't meant to be on the internet, and I respect > > that. > > > > So, sister, I lay down my bundle of tobacco beside you and ask in a >good > > > > way - will you help me learn? I ask this with all respect. But, >with > > the > > > > same respect I'm also saying that I don't want to debate or argue. >If > > > > you're willing to sharing information, I'm your sponge, here to soak >it > > > all > > > > up! > > > > Thanks, Barbara! > > > > Tsana > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Patsy Caleb <studentarchaeologist@home.com> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:12 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > can i disagree to that because the more i learn about my choctaw > > > heritage > > > > > the more spiritual i become > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:49 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something >we > > > went > > > > > to > > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is >born >in > > > us > > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by >a > > > white > > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some >things, > > > but > > > > > they > > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts >to > > > put > > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is >at > > > best > > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > > B. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > > everyone's > > > > > > slings > > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just >think > > > > our > > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've >had > > > > > > countless > > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as >long > > > as > > > > > it's > > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways >because > > it > > > > > works > > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > > derogatory > > > > > name. > > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do >so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? > > > Isn't > > > > > that > > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no >Indian > > > blood > > > > at > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without >the > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the >quotes > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the >quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Choctaw Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the >list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at >CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

opp's or Aunte Walk in Beauty Elkdreamer >From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies >Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 18:38:33 -0500 > >Good for you, Fay! I cannot STAND children who call elders by their first >name or don't say Maam/Sir. > >dusty >----- Original Message ----- >From: faynshep <faynshep@telapex.com> >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 3:06 PM >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > I don't know if good manners are Indian ways or southern ways, but I >raised > > my children up to say yes mam and no sir, etc. One of mine came home >from > > school one day and said to me "what". I asked her if I needed to wash >out > > her mouth or her ears and asked did she speak to her teachers that way >to > > which she responded, "Ms. Jones doesn't want me to call her Mam" to >which >I > > said "Ms Jones can have no manners if she wishes but that option is not >open > > to you, you will call anyone that is 20 years older than you mam or >sir." > > Fay > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Linda Branum <mamalin@1s.net> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 9:56 AM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > All is well put thats for sure. I have always tried to teach my >children > > > to say Yes Sir and No Sir and Yes Mame and No Mame.( Boy I don't think >I > > > spelled that right <):-) > > > Some people think thats not right but to always respect your ELDERS >is > > what > > > I have always been taught. My Dad taught me that and I do love him for > > that. > > > There are so many children who don't say that I have always been >told > > that > > > my children were so polite and I feel that me teaching them that my >Father > > > taught me is why they feel that way about my children. > > > Linda > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 11:13 AM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > Makes perfect sense. Very similar to the way I was raised. The >fact > > that > > > > we were "Indian" was hardly ever brought up. I can't remember ever > > being > > > > told that something was the "Indian" way to act....just the "right" >way > > to > > > > act. > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Tsa na Jordan <medicgirl78@yahoo.com> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 11:13 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know, as I look back on my "raising", I see that even though >we > > were > > > > > told that we were Cherokee/Choctaw, we weren't given the religous > > > culture > > > > in > > > > > detail, but we were raised to follow the general Indian beliefs. >Such > > > as: > > > > > environmental protection, respect to animals, and respect of >elders. > > I > > > > had > > > > > always thought of these as general "good ethics", but the more I >look > > at > > > > > people and the older I get, I realize that these were taught to me > > > because > > > > > they were taught to my father, and his father, and his father, >etc. > > > They > > > > > were a "way of life" not something that my elders really thought > > about, > > > > just > > > > > the way they had lived and those before them had lived. Does this > > make > > > > > sense? I'm not so good at putting this stuff down in black and >white. > > > > > Take care and go safely! > > > > > Tsana > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 9:32 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dusty one of the things I see as I am out and about doing shows >and > > > > > talking > > > > > > to people is those people who connect with their long ago >indigenous > > > > > > Ancestors seem to have a better grasp of taking care of >community > > and > > > > the > > > > > > Earth.It is those who can't seem to find the connection that >have >a > > > > > problem > > > > > > with hearing. Arla > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 4:10 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem seems to be, with people who have no Indian blood, > > > getting > > > > > > them > > > > > > > to LISTEN. The native people of this country are far more in >tune > > > > with > > > > > > what > > > > > > > is going on re this continent than the invaders, but those who >are > > > all > > > > > > into > > > > > > > technology and the worship of man's knowledge rather than Gods > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > seem to screw everything up and then wonder what happened to >make > > > > > things > > > > > > go > > > > > > > wrong. IMHO > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 2:01 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those who have grown up in Indian communities but seem to >have > > no > > > > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > > of their own spirituality are still aware of something >inside > > > that > > > > is > > > > > > > > different, even if they don't know what it is.(Because of >the > > > thick > > > > > > > > assimilation) > > > > > > > > And it is my hope that more of our people will recognise >that >we > > > are > > > > > not > > > > > > > > "second class" and that our spirituality is not just a >matter >of > > > > > > > "beliefs", > > > > > > > > and that it is not "inferior" to the spirituality any other >race > > > of > > > > > > > > people...It is also my hope that those non-Indians who can >learn > > a > > > > > > better > > > > > > > > way of living in balance from Indians, or whoever, will do >so... > > > > > > > > B. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: "Gemma West" <gemmawest@usa.net> > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:35 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander >through > > > life > > > > > > > trying > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they >don't > > > fit > > > > > in. > > > > > > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's > > > > defintions > > > > > of > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person >decides >to > > > > look > > > > > to > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel > > > comfortable. > > > > > It > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological > > > > characteristics. > > > > > > It > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The >sad > > > > thing > > > > > is > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow >up > > > around > > > > > > > Indians > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing >is > > > > > finding > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > few > > > > > > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share > > > knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the >community >it > > > > > causes > > > > > > us > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are > > they > > > > here > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > get? > > > > > > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing > > about > > > > > this > > > > > > > > reverse > > > > > > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to >re-embrace > > > our > > > > > own > > > > > > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had >to > > live > > > > > with. > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new > > > generations. > > > > > If > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a >great > > > > thing. > > > > > > > > After > > > > > > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in >a > > > world > > > > > > shaped > > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with >principles > > of > > > > > > > balance. > > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we >do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not > > something > > > > we > > > > > > went > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it >is > > > born > > > > in > > > > > > us > > > > > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised >surrounded > > by > > > a > > > > > > white > > > > > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us >some > > > > things, > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their > > attempts > > > > to > > > > > > put > > > > > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to >speak, > > is > > > at > > > > > > best > > > > > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > > > > > B. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear >to > > > > > everyone's > > > > > > > > > slings > > > > > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but >just > > > > think > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. > > I've > > > > had > > > > > > > > > countless > > > > > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you >have, > > as > > > > long > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > it's > > > > > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our >ways > > > > because > > > > > it > > > > > > > > works > > > > > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > > > > > derogatory > > > > > > > > name. > > > > > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant >to > > do > > > > so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so > > exclusive? > > > > > > Isn't > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no > > > Indian > > > > > > blood > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail >list: > > > > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" > > without > > > > the > > > > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off >signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages >at > > > > > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at > > > > > > http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" >without > > the > > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post >it > > to > > > > the > > > > > > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > > > > > > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information. Visit Rusty Lang's pages at > > > > > http://www.choctaw-web.com for articles, censuses, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the >quotes > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the >quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: >Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

At least Uncle. Walk in Beauty Elkdreamer >From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies >Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 18:38:33 -0500 > >Good for you, Fay! I cannot STAND children who call elders by their first >name or don't say Maam/Sir. > >dusty >----- Original Message ----- >From: faynshep <faynshep@telapex.com> >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 3:06 PM >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > I don't know if good manners are Indian ways or southern ways, but I >raised > > my children up to say yes mam and no sir, etc. One of mine came home >from > > school one day and said to me "what". I asked her if I needed to wash >out > > her mouth or her ears and asked did she speak to her teachers that way >to > > which she responded, "Ms. Jones doesn't want me to call her Mam" to >which >I > > said "Ms Jones can have no manners if she wishes but that option is not >open > > to you, you will call anyone that is 20 years older than you mam or >sir." > > Fay > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Linda Branum <mamalin@1s.net> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 9:56 AM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > All is well put thats for sure. I have always tried to teach my >children > > > to say Yes Sir and No Sir and Yes Mame and No Mame.( Boy I don't think >I > > > spelled that right <):-) > > > Some people think thats not right but to always respect your ELDERS >is > > what > > > I have always been taught. My Dad taught me that and I do love him for > > that. > > > There are so many children who don't say that I have always been >told > > that > > > my children were so polite and I feel that me teaching them that my >Father > > > taught me is why they feel that way about my children. > > > Linda > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 11:13 AM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > Makes perfect sense. Very similar to the way I was raised. The >fact > > that > > > > we were "Indian" was hardly ever brought up. I can't remember ever > > being > > > > told that something was the "Indian" way to act....just the "right" >way > > to > > > > act. > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Tsa na Jordan <medicgirl78@yahoo.com> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 11:13 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know, as I look back on my "raising", I see that even though >we > > were > > > > > told that we were Cherokee/Choctaw, we weren't given the religous > > > culture > > > > in > > > > > detail, but we were raised to follow the general Indian beliefs. >Such > > > as: > > > > > environmental protection, respect to animals, and respect of >elders. > > I > > > > had > > > > > always thought of these as general "good ethics", but the more I >look > > at > > > > > people and the older I get, I realize that these were taught to me > > > because > > > > > they were taught to my father, and his father, and his father, >etc. > > > They > > > > > were a "way of life" not something that my elders really thought > > about, > > > > just > > > > > the way they had lived and those before them had lived. Does this > > make > > > > > sense? I'm not so good at putting this stuff down in black and >white. > > > > > Take care and go safely! > > > > > Tsana > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 9:32 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dusty one of the things I see as I am out and about doing shows >and > > > > > talking > > > > > > to people is those people who connect with their long ago >indigenous > > > > > > Ancestors seem to have a better grasp of taking care of >community > > and > > > > the > > > > > > Earth.It is those who can't seem to find the connection that >have >a > > > > > problem > > > > > > with hearing. Arla > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 4:10 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem seems to be, with people who have no Indian blood, > > > getting > > > > > > them > > > > > > > to LISTEN. The native people of this country are far more in >tune > > > > with > > > > > > what > > > > > > > is going on re this continent than the invaders, but those who >are > > > all > > > > > > into > > > > > > > technology and the worship of man's knowledge rather than Gods > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > seem to screw everything up and then wonder what happened to >make > > > > > things > > > > > > go > > > > > > > wrong. IMHO > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 2:01 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those who have grown up in Indian communities but seem to >have > > no > > > > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > > of their own spirituality are still aware of something >inside > > > that > > > > is > > > > > > > > different, even if they don't know what it is.(Because of >the > > > thick > > > > > > > > assimilation) > > > > > > > > And it is my hope that more of our people will recognise >that >we > > > are > > > > > not > > > > > > > > "second class" and that our spirituality is not just a >matter >of > > > > > > > "beliefs", > > > > > > > > and that it is not "inferior" to the spirituality any other >race > > > of > > > > > > > > people...It is also my hope that those non-Indians who can >learn > > a > > > > > > better > > > > > > > > way of living in balance from Indians, or whoever, will do >so... > > > > > > > > B. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: "Gemma West" <gemmawest@usa.net> > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:35 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander >through > > > life > > > > > > > trying > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they >don't > > > fit > > > > > in. > > > > > > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's > > > > defintions > > > > > of > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person >decides >to > > > > look > > > > > to > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel > > > comfortable. > > > > > It > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological > > > > characteristics. > > > > > > It > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The >sad > > > > thing > > > > > is > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow >up > > > around > > > > > > > Indians > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing >is > > > > > finding > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > few > > > > > > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share > > > knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the >community >it > > > > > causes > > > > > > us > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are > > they > > > > here > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > get? > > > > > > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing > > about > > > > > this > > > > > > > > reverse > > > > > > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to >re-embrace > > > our > > > > > own > > > > > > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had >to > > live > > > > > with. > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new > > > generations. > > > > > If > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a >great > > > > thing. > > > > > > > > After > > > > > > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in >a > > > world > > > > > > shaped > > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with >principles > > of > > > > > > > balance. > > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we >do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not > > something > > > > we > > > > > > went > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it >is > > > born > > > > in > > > > > > us > > > > > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised >surrounded > > by > > > a > > > > > > white > > > > > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us >some > > > > things, > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their > > attempts > > > > to > > > > > > put > > > > > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to >speak, > > is > > > at > > > > > > best > > > > > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > > > > > B. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear >to > > > > > everyone's > > > > > > > > > slings > > > > > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but >just > > > > think > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. > > I've > > > > had > > > > > > > > > countless > > > > > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you >have, > > as > > > > long > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > it's > > > > > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our >ways > > > > because > > > > > it > > > > > > > > works > > > > > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > > > > > derogatory > > > > > > > > name. > > > > > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant >to > > do > > > > so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so > > exclusive? > > > > > > Isn't > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no > > > Indian > > > > > > blood > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail >list: > > > > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" > > without > > > > the > > > > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off >signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages >at > > > > > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at > > > > > > http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" >without > > the > > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post >it > > to > > > > the > > > > > > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > > > > > > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information. Visit Rusty Lang's pages at > > > > > http://www.choctaw-web.com for articles, censuses, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the >quotes > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the >quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: >Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Who knows? It doesn't matter....we started with 1 or 2 and we can do it again. A few have told me it was because of the volume of mail, but most just unsub without any sort of communication. Don't worry about it! As long as everyone respects my guidelines, I'm OK. If I get un-OK, believe me, I will let you guys know real quick!! <lol> dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Morrison, Jr. <jmorsn@coastalnet.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > Dusty > Have that many dropped because of the conversation that WE have been engaged > in? I have stopped responding to some of the "comments" for that reason. > Jim > > jmorsn@coastalnet.com > http://www2.coastalnet.com/~g7d3j4nb/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 3:58 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > Kris: > > > > Are you new to this list? That's what we've been doing the last week or > so. > > And in doing so, our list shrank from about 100 down to 68 as of this > > morning. In the past 10 days I've received mail that ranged from mild > > chiding to words that a sailor that had been to sea for seven years > wouldn't > > think of. Stick around, the subject will come back up again! <LOL> > > > > If you have questons, please ask. Someone here may be able to answer. > > > > dusty > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Kris Harapan <harapank@wwdb.org> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 10:22 AM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > Tsana, > > > > > > I second this. Having recently begun a spiritual quest of my own, I > have > > > been looking for a forum (online and off) that would support me in > asking > > > questions, without trying to force me onto a given path. I have just > left > > > that route behind, and would very much like to find the path that is > right > > > for me. What seems to be the hardest right now is finding a reputable > > > source for guidance into exploring new areas, and having a place where > it > > is > > > okay to have questions. Am open to any suggestions others might have. > > > > > > I know the recent discussions have been a bit hard on some, but I have > > found > > > it to be quite helpful. I know concern has been expressed about using > > this > > > forum for spiritual discussions, what would be the possibility of having > a > > > list for discussion of traditional Choctaw beliefs, the impact of > outside > > > religions on those beliefs, and how this impacts their descendents > today? > > > Would their be enough interest to support something like that? > > > > > > Kris > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Tsa na Jordan <medicgirl78@yahoo.com> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 9:52 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > Barbara, > > > > I, like, Patsy, beg to differ. The only difference, it seems, > > between > > > > you and I is that you had a chance to grow up with and learn the > Choctaw > > > > > > culture from your family, elders, etc. I, on the other hand, did not > > have > > > > that luxury. Now, it's no fault of mine, nor of my family. They did > > what > > > > they thought best for the family at the time. OK, so does that mean > > that > > > I > > > > am not as interested? NO. Does that mean that I can't learn a lot > > about > > > it > > > > from the internet, books, elders, other tribal members, etc.? NO. > Does > > > it > > > > mean that I can become as knowledgable as you who grew up with it? > YES. > > > I > > > > will probably never know all that you do, nor will that bother me. I > > want > > > > to learn my family's history and culture. Does it mean that I may > adopt > > > > some of the beliefs I learn about? PROBABLY since I've already > adopted > > > some > > > > of the Cherokee beliefs. Does it mean that you are a better "Indian" > > than > > > > I? NOPE. Does it mean that you are a better person, in general, than > > I? > > > > NOPE. > > > > I would appreciate your sharing some of the ways of the Choctaw > > since > > > > you are so educated in those ways. Now, I'm fully aware that there > are > > > some > > > > things that simply aren't meant to be on the internet, and I respect > > that. > > > > So, sister, I lay down my bundle of tobacco beside you and ask in a > good > > > > way - will you help me learn? I ask this with all respect. But, with > > the > > > > same respect I'm also saying that I don't want to debate or argue. If > > > > you're willing to sharing information, I'm your sponge, here to soak > it > > > all > > > > up! > > > > Thanks, Barbara! > > > > Tsana > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Patsy Caleb <studentarchaeologist@home.com> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:12 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > can i disagree to that because the more i learn about my choctaw > > > heritage > > > > > the more spiritual i become > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:49 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something > we > > > went > > > > > to > > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born > in > > > us > > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a > > > white > > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some > things, > > > but > > > > > they > > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts > to > > > put > > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at > > > best > > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > > B. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > > everyone's > > > > > > slings > > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just > think > > > > our > > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've > had > > > > > > countless > > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as > long > > > as > > > > > it's > > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways > because > > it > > > > > works > > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > > derogatory > > > > > name. > > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do > so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? > > > Isn't > > > > > that > > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian > > > blood > > > > at > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without > the > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > quotes > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the > quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Choctaw Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

I'm sorry, Patsy - I don't follow the question. Where have you seen the term "Uncivilized tribes"??? dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Patsy Caleb <studentarchaeologist@home.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 6:17 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > Dusty are there any records on the acts and so called criminal acts that the > choctaws did to get classified as "Uncivilized" as itn in the 5 uncivilized > tribes" > > got to be there somewhere huh > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 9:21 AM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > I use that joke with the children. They LOVE it! > > > > dusty > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 10:08 AM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > LOL :) > > > That's why I often use the word Aboriginal...it's accurate and doesn't > > > offend my own senses or anyone else's. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: <Chata1507@aol.com> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:02 AM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > As many of my friends have commented we can be glad Columbus wasn't > > > looking > > > > for turkey. > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information. Visit Rusty Lang's pages at > > > http://www.choctaw-web.com for articles, censuses, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

OK folks, let's keep our criticism of each other off- list and private. If you want to give anyone a piece of your mind - do it PRIVATELY! Re-read my guidelies that you received in your welcome message. dusty List Admin. ----- Original Message ----- From: David and Tommie Marsters <haili65@proaxis.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 3:33 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Jim, Never ending quest > Gemma: > Thank you, and Amen to that. > Tommie > > Gemma West wrote: > > > It should be clear to you that I don't concern myself with Webster's > > definition of intelligence. If not then let me assure you of this fact. > > > > Frankly your whole demeanor on this list reeks of disrespect or playground > > taunting. Your referral to people not choosing to name themselves afer > > dolphins is just another in a long line of examples. But, of course, I may be > > completely wrong. If you do indeed have Indian ancestors I hope that their > > spirits prevail on you to change. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Gemma > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. >

Dusty Have that many dropped because of the conversation that WE have been engaged in? I have stopped responding to some of the "comments" for that reason. Jim jmorsn@coastalnet.com http://www2.coastalnet.com/~g7d3j4nb/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > Kris: > > Are you new to this list? That's what we've been doing the last week or so. > And in doing so, our list shrank from about 100 down to 68 as of this > morning. In the past 10 days I've received mail that ranged from mild > chiding to words that a sailor that had been to sea for seven years wouldn't > think of. Stick around, the subject will come back up again! <LOL> > > If you have questons, please ask. Someone here may be able to answer. > > dusty > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kris Harapan <harapank@wwdb.org> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 10:22 AM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > Tsana, > > > > I second this. Having recently begun a spiritual quest of my own, I have > > been looking for a forum (online and off) that would support me in asking > > questions, without trying to force me onto a given path. I have just left > > that route behind, and would very much like to find the path that is right > > for me. What seems to be the hardest right now is finding a reputable > > source for guidance into exploring new areas, and having a place where it > is > > okay to have questions. Am open to any suggestions others might have. > > > > I know the recent discussions have been a bit hard on some, but I have > found > > it to be quite helpful. I know concern has been expressed about using > this > > forum for spiritual discussions, what would be the possibility of having a > > list for discussion of traditional Choctaw beliefs, the impact of outside > > religions on those beliefs, and how this impacts their descendents today? > > Would their be enough interest to support something like that? > > > > Kris > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Tsa na Jordan <medicgirl78@yahoo.com> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 9:52 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > Barbara, > > > I, like, Patsy, beg to differ. The only difference, it seems, > between > > > you and I is that you had a chance to grow up with and learn the Choctaw > > > > culture from your family, elders, etc. I, on the other hand, did not > have > > > that luxury. Now, it's no fault of mine, nor of my family. They did > what > > > they thought best for the family at the time. OK, so does that mean > that > > I > > > am not as interested? NO. Does that mean that I can't learn a lot > about > > it > > > from the internet, books, elders, other tribal members, etc.? NO. Does > > it > > > mean that I can become as knowledgable as you who grew up with it? YES. > > I > > > will probably never know all that you do, nor will that bother me. I > want > > > to learn my family's history and culture. Does it mean that I may adopt > > > some of the beliefs I learn about? PROBABLY since I've already adopted > > some > > > of the Cherokee beliefs. Does it mean that you are a better "Indian" > than > > > I? NOPE. Does it mean that you are a better person, in general, than > I? > > > NOPE. > > > I would appreciate your sharing some of the ways of the Choctaw > since > > > you are so educated in those ways. Now, I'm fully aware that there are > > some > > > things that simply aren't meant to be on the internet, and I respect > that. > > > So, sister, I lay down my bundle of tobacco beside you and ask in a good > > > way - will you help me learn? I ask this with all respect. But, with > the > > > same respect I'm also saying that I don't want to debate or argue. If > > > you're willing to sharing information, I'm your sponge, here to soak it > > all > > > up! > > > Thanks, Barbara! > > > Tsana > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Patsy Caleb <studentarchaeologist@home.com> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:12 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > can i disagree to that because the more i learn about my choctaw > > heritage > > > > the more spiritual i become > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:49 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we > > went > > > > to > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in > > us > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a > > white > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, > > but > > > > they > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to > > put > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at > > best > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > B. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > everyone's > > > > > slings > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think > > > our > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > > > > > countless > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long > > as > > > > it's > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because > it > > > > works > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > derogatory > > > > name. > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? > > Isn't > > > > that > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian > > blood > > > at > > > > > all > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > > quotes > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Choctaw Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > >

Good for you, Fay! I cannot STAND children who call elders by their first name or don't say Maam/Sir. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: faynshep <faynshep@telapex.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > I don't know if good manners are Indian ways or southern ways, but I raised > my children up to say yes mam and no sir, etc. One of mine came home from > school one day and said to me "what". I asked her if I needed to wash out > her mouth or her ears and asked did she speak to her teachers that way to > which she responded, "Ms. Jones doesn't want me to call her Mam" to which I > said "Ms Jones can have no manners if she wishes but that option is not open > to you, you will call anyone that is 20 years older than you mam or sir." > Fay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Linda Branum <mamalin@1s.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 9:56 AM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > All is well put thats for sure. I have always tried to teach my children > > to say Yes Sir and No Sir and Yes Mame and No Mame.( Boy I don't think I > > spelled that right <):-) > > Some people think thats not right but to always respect your ELDERS is > what > > I have always been taught. My Dad taught me that and I do love him for > that. > > There are so many children who don't say that I have always been told > that > > my children were so polite and I feel that me teaching them that my Father > > taught me is why they feel that way about my children. > > Linda > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 11:13 AM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > Makes perfect sense. Very similar to the way I was raised. The fact > that > > > we were "Indian" was hardly ever brought up. I can't remember ever > being > > > told that something was the "Indian" way to act....just the "right" way > to > > > act. > > > > > > dusty > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Tsa na Jordan <medicgirl78@yahoo.com> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 11:13 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > You know, as I look back on my "raising", I see that even though we > were > > > > told that we were Cherokee/Choctaw, we weren't given the religous > > culture > > > in > > > > detail, but we were raised to follow the general Indian beliefs. Such > > as: > > > > environmental protection, respect to animals, and respect of elders. > I > > > had > > > > always thought of these as general "good ethics", but the more I look > at > > > > people and the older I get, I realize that these were taught to me > > because > > > > they were taught to my father, and his father, and his father, etc. > > They > > > > were a "way of life" not something that my elders really thought > about, > > > just > > > > the way they had lived and those before them had lived. Does this > make > > > > sense? I'm not so good at putting this stuff down in black and white. > > > > Take care and go safely! > > > > Tsana > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 9:32 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dusty one of the things I see as I am out and about doing shows and > > > > talking > > > > > to people is those people who connect with their long ago indigenous > > > > > Ancestors seem to have a better grasp of taking care of community > and > > > the > > > > > Earth.It is those who can't seem to find the connection that have a > > > > problem > > > > > with hearing. Arla > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 4:10 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem seems to be, with people who have no Indian blood, > > getting > > > > > them > > > > > > to LISTEN. The native people of this country are far more in tune > > > with > > > > > what > > > > > > is going on re this continent than the invaders, but those who are > > all > > > > > into > > > > > > technology and the worship of man's knowledge rather than Gods > > > knowledge > > > > > > seem to screw everything up and then wonder what happened to make > > > > things > > > > > go > > > > > > wrong. IMHO > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 2:01 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those who have grown up in Indian communities but seem to have > no > > > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > of their own spirituality are still aware of something inside > > that > > > is > > > > > > > different, even if they don't know what it is.(Because of the > > thick > > > > > > > assimilation) > > > > > > > And it is my hope that more of our people will recognise that we > > are > > > > not > > > > > > > "second class" and that our spirituality is not just a matter of > > > > > > "beliefs", > > > > > > > and that it is not "inferior" to the spirituality any other race > > of > > > > > > > people...It is also my hope that those non-Indians who can learn > a > > > > > better > > > > > > > way of living in balance from Indians, or whoever, will do so... > > > > > > > B. > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: "Gemma West" <gemmawest@usa.net> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:35 PM > > > > > > > Subject: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through > > life > > > > > > trying > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't > > fit > > > > in. > > > > > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's > > > defintions > > > > of > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to > > > look > > > > to > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel > > comfortable. > > > > It > > > > > is > > > > > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological > > > characteristics. > > > > > It > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad > > > thing > > > > is > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up > > around > > > > > > Indians > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is > > > > finding > > > > > > the > > > > > > > few > > > > > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share > > knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it > > > > causes > > > > > us > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are > they > > > here > > > > > to > > > > > > > get? > > > > > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing > about > > > > this > > > > > > > reverse > > > > > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace > > our > > > > own > > > > > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to > live > > > > with. > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new > > generations. > > > > If > > > > > we > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great > > > thing. > > > > > > > After > > > > > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a > > world > > > > > shaped > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles > of > > > > > > balance. > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not > something > > > we > > > > > went > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is > > born > > > in > > > > > us > > > > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded > by > > a > > > > > white > > > > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some > > > things, > > > > > but > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their > attempts > > > to > > > > > put > > > > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, > is > > at > > > > > best > > > > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > > > > B. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > > > > everyone's > > > > > > > > slings > > > > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just > > > think > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. > I've > > > had > > > > > > > > countless > > > > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, > as > > > long > > > > > as > > > > > > > it's > > > > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways > > > because > > > > it > > > > > > > works > > > > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > > > > derogatory > > > > > > > name. > > > > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to > do > > > so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so > exclusive? > > > > > Isn't > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no > > Indian > > > > > blood > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" > without > > > the > > > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at > > > > > http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without > the > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it > to > > > the > > > > > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > > > > > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information. Visit Rusty Lang's pages at > > > > http://www.choctaw-web.com for articles, censuses, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ >

Linda: Where did you get the information about the blacks not being allowed to claim Indian blood if it was from their fathers? dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Linda Branum <mamalin@1s.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Indian Heritage > Hi Jim, > I do know that in some of the papers I have on my family members. We are > Choctaw but my Great Uncle William Guynes married a Chickasaw woman and > their children are listed in the Chickasaw rolls. > If I am wrong please someone correct me. William is listed as 1/2 Choctaw > and Margaret James Guynes is listed as 3/4 Chickasaw. Its my understanding > that the greater Indian blood line would be who the children are listed > with. I have also heard that the children were listed with the mothers side > too. > I think that is why there is such a problem with the black ancestors who > had Indian fathers. They were listed with their mother who was black and > can't claim their Indian rights. Does anyone know the law about this. If I > stand corrected please feel free to correct me. > I think this is wrong to not let them have their Indian Heritage but so > many things were wrong back then. > Linda Kirby Branum > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Morrison, Jr." <jmorsn@coastalnet.com> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 4:04 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Were all Brothers and Sisters > > > > Hate to "nit pick", but here is MY problem with the suggestion: > > My great great grand mother MAY have been Chickasaw Indian from Gibson > > County, TN. She was born 1837. > > My great grand mother was almost without doubt Chocataw Indian from > Chambers > > County, AL. She was born 1856. > > My grand mother was suppose to have been part Cherokee Indian from Hayti, > > MO. She was born 1907. > > > > If any of these women are on any of the "Final Rolls" or any of their kin, > I > > have not been able to locate them!! Which "tribe" should I claim? > > BTW > > These are all my FATHER'S grand mothers. > > Jim > > > > jmorsn@coastalnet.com > > http://www2.coastalnet.com/~g7d3j4nb/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Linda Branum" <mamalin@1s.net> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 11:11 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Were all Brothers and Sisters > > > > > > > Hi Dusty and all, > > > I want to say that my brother looks full blood Indian but we are just > > > 1/32. I don't look a bit like and Indian but I have the same amt of > blood > > as > > > he does. > > > I feel the amt of Indian doesn't matter. We are all brothers and > sisters > > > just some of us have proof and others don't. > > > I think we should all remember TOGETHER WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL. All > of > > > us need to unite together and stop worring about how much blood we have > > but > > > our people were all at one time full blood so who cares if you are full > or > > > just a little. You are still my sister and brother and all are NA. > > > Regards, Linda Kirby Branum > > > > > > (Guynes and Sain are my Indian heritage surnames) Guynes being Choctaw > > and > > > documented and Sain Cherokee undocumented. But I feel ancestors calling > > from > > > both!! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 8:29 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > Gemma and all: > > > > > > > > I am intrigued and challenged by your question, "Does the community > > still > > > > exist." I have pondered this question for many years and under many > > > > different circumstances., and would like to get some feedback from > other > > > > listmembers. > > > > > > > > What is the state of the Indian community today..... > > > > Specifically, WHAT IS AN INDIAN? Is it a matter of blood quantum? > > > > Lifestyle? Beliefs? > > > > > > > > There can be no argument that there is definite predjudice among NA as > > to > > > > "who is Indian" and who is not. There are "skins" and there are > > "bloods". > > > > Why the separation? What does it take to be considered "Indian > enough". > > > > Are some NAs practicing a racism they would decry in other races.? > > Don't > > > > quote me the government's definition of Indian, I'm well aware of > that. > > > > > > > > I want the opinions of others on this list. > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: David and Tommie Marsters <haili65@proaxis.com> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:30 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well put, Gemma. I agree. > > > > > Tommie > > > > > > > > > > Gemma West wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > > > > trying to > > > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit > > in. > > > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's > defintions > > of > > > > good > > > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to > look > > to > > > > their > > > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. > > It > > > is > > > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological > characteristics. > > > It > > > > is > > > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad > thing > > is > > > > that > > > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > > > > Indians and > > > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is > > finding > > > > the few > > > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it > > causes > > > us > > > > to > > > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they > here > > > to > > > > get? > > > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about > > this > > > > reverse > > > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our > > own > > > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live > > with. > > > > This > > > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. > > If > > > we > > > > can > > > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great > thing. > > > > After > > > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world > > > shaped > > > > by > > > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > > > > balance. It > > > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something > we > > > went > > > > to > > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born > in > > > us > > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a > > > white > > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some > things, > > > but > > > > they > > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts > to > > > put > > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at > > > best > > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > > B. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > > everyone's > > > > > > slings > > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just > think > > > > our > > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've > had > > > > > > countless > > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as > long > > > as > > > > it's > > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways > because > > it > > > > works > > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > > derogatory > > > > name. > > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do > so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? > > > Isn't > > > > that > > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian > > > blood > > > > at > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without > the > > > > quotes > > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at > > > http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > quotes > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the > > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Choctaw Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ >

Dusty, Not new to the list, but too new to studying my Choctaw heritage to know where to begin asking questions. I have known since before I was in high school that I was of NA descent. I tried to read about it then, but I got upset reading about the history of removals and broken treaties. We lived overseas and all I could get was extremely sanitized versions of history, but it still made me mad. My mother took any such books away from me and would not let me read about NA history again. She made quite an impression. I haven't lived under her roof for over 10 years, but it has taken me this long to find my way back where I first started my search. I may not have joined in the discussion, but I have learned from it. It has helped me to give my personal search some badly needed focus. Keep the discussion going. When I know enough to ask the right questions, I'll jump in. Thanks. Kris ----- Original Message ----- From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > Kris: > > Are you new to this list? That's what we've been doing the last week or so. > And in doing so, our list shrank from about 100 down to 68 as of this > morning. In the past 10 days I've received mail that ranged from mild > chiding to words that a sailor that had been to sea for seven years wouldn't > think of. Stick around, the subject will come back up again! <LOL> > > If you have questons, please ask. Someone here may be able to answer. > > dusty > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kris Harapan <harapank@wwdb.org> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 10:22 AM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > Tsana, > > > > I second this. Having recently begun a spiritual quest of my own, I have > > been looking for a forum (online and off) that would support me in asking > > questions, without trying to force me onto a given path. I have just left > > that route behind, and would very much like to find the path that is right > > for me. What seems to be the hardest right now is finding a reputable > > source for guidance into exploring new areas, and having a place where it > is > > okay to have questions. Am open to any suggestions others might have. > > > > I know the recent discussions have been a bit hard on some, but I have > found > > it to be quite helpful. I know concern has been expressed about using > this > > forum for spiritual discussions, what would be the possibility of having a > > list for discussion of traditional Choctaw beliefs, the impact of outside > > religions on those beliefs, and how this impacts their descendents today? > > Would their be enough interest to support something like that? > > > > Kris > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Tsa na Jordan <medicgirl78@yahoo.com> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 9:52 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > Barbara, > > > I, like, Patsy, beg to differ. The only difference, it seems, > between > > > you and I is that you had a chance to grow up with and learn the Choctaw > > > > culture from your family, elders, etc. I, on the other hand, did not > have > > > that luxury. Now, it's no fault of mine, nor of my family. They did > what > > > they thought best for the family at the time. OK, so does that mean > that > > I > > > am not as interested? NO. Does that mean that I can't learn a lot > about > > it > > > from the internet, books, elders, other tribal members, etc.? NO. Does > > it > > > mean that I can become as knowledgable as you who grew up with it? YES. > > I > > > will probably never know all that you do, nor will that bother me. I > want > > > to learn my family's history and culture. Does it mean that I may adopt > > > some of the beliefs I learn about? PROBABLY since I've already adopted > > some > > > of the Cherokee beliefs. Does it mean that you are a better "Indian" > than > > > I? NOPE. Does it mean that you are a better person, in general, than > I? > > > NOPE. > > > I would appreciate your sharing some of the ways of the Choctaw > since > > > you are so educated in those ways. Now, I'm fully aware that there are > > some > > > things that simply aren't meant to be on the internet, and I respect > that. > > > So, sister, I lay down my bundle of tobacco beside you and ask in a good > > > way - will you help me learn? I ask this with all respect. But, with > the > > > same respect I'm also saying that I don't want to debate or argue. If > > > you're willing to sharing information, I'm your sponge, here to soak it > > all > > > up! > > > Thanks, Barbara! > > > Tsana > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Patsy Caleb <studentarchaeologist@home.com> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:12 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > can i disagree to that because the more i learn about my choctaw > > heritage > > > > the more spiritual i become > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:49 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we > > went > > > > to > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in > > us > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a > > white > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, > > but > > > > they > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to > > put > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at > > best > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > B. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > everyone's > > > > > slings > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think > > > our > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > > > > > countless > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long > > as > > > > it's > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because > it > > > > works > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > derogatory > > > > name. > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? > > Isn't > > > > that > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian > > blood > > > at > > > > > all > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > > quotes > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Choctaw Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > >

boy this t-bone steak is awful good ----- Original Message ----- From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > I use that joke with the children. They LOVE it! > > dusty > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 10:08 AM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > LOL :) > > That's why I often use the word Aboriginal...it's accurate and doesn't > > offend my own senses or anyone else's. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <Chata1507@aol.com> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:02 AM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > As many of my friends have commented we can be glad Columbus wasn't > > looking > > > for turkey. > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Need more CHOCTAW information. Visit Rusty Lang's pages at > > http://www.choctaw-web.com for articles, censuses, etc. > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com >

Dusty are there any records on the acts and so called criminal acts that the choctaws did to get classified as "Uncivilized" as itn in the 5 uncivilized tribes" got to be there somewhere huh ----- Original Message ----- From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > I use that joke with the children. They LOVE it! > > dusty > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 10:08 AM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > LOL :) > > That's why I often use the word Aboriginal...it's accurate and doesn't > > offend my own senses or anyone else's. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <Chata1507@aol.com> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:02 AM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > As many of my friends have commented we can be glad Columbus wasn't > > looking > > > for turkey. > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Need more CHOCTAW information. Visit Rusty Lang's pages at > > http://www.choctaw-web.com for articles, censuses, etc. > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com >

It should be clear to you that I don't concern myself with Webster's definition of intelligence. If not then let me assure you of this fact. Frankly your whole demeanor on this list reeks of disrespect or playground taunting. Your referral to people not choosing to name themselves afer dolphins is just another in a long line of examples. But, of course, I may be completely wrong. If you do indeed have Indian ancestors I hope that their spirits prevail on you to change. Cheers, Gemma ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1

"Good manners" are not necessarily "good manners" in another. I grew up in the northwest and had never heard "Yes maam" and "No maam", "Yes sir" and "No sir". Not even when visiting relatives in the midwest had I heard this. We moved to Ga when I was 10 and when I would say "Yes" to a teacher, they would respond, "Yes, what?" And I would say, "No?" And they would say, "No, what?" I was without a clue and completely confused. What in the world did they want me to say? When I was finally informed what was going on, I considered it particularly rigorous, unsympathetic, and ignorant on the part of these adults to not understand that regional customs may just be that, regional. Indeed, in the situations in which I had grown up, the use of "Yes maam" etc. would have been suggestive to the ears of both pandering and subjugation. A simple yes or no was enough. What makes good manners is the spirit in which another individual is treated. Juli At 01:06 PM 4/8/01 -0700, you wrote: >I don't know if good manners are Indian ways or southern ways, but I raised >my children up to say yes mam and no sir, etc. One of mine came home from >school one day and said to me "what". I asked her if I needed to wash out >her mouth or her ears and asked did she speak to her teachers that way to >which she responded, "Ms. Jones doesn't want me to call her Mam" to which I >said "Ms Jones can have no manners if she wishes but that option is not open >to you, you will call anyone that is 20 years older than you mam or sir." >Fay >----- Original Message -----