Good ideas! I think your Vicks idea got some one else's attention. Kim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Ellison" <greybird7@pisp.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 11:24 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] GNATS!! HELP!!!!!!! > Build a fire with some dry cedar and pine knots...the smoke helps keep > skeeters away...or you can try putting vinegar on your clothes...I have done > that to keep the biting flies and skeeters off when I was mowing...or > there's the good old Vicks Salve you can smear around...I use that to keep > wasps from building nests right over my doorway and ants out of hummer > feeders...they really don't like the menthol... > B. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kim Collins" <2buckets@arbuckleonline.com> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 11:11 PM > Subject: [CHAHTA] GNATS!! HELP!!!!!!! > > > > Off topic but a serious question. > > Does any one have an idea of how to repel or do away with what we call > buffalo or bull gnats? > > They are so bad here that I could not even go out to water my garden > tonight. I needed both hands to try and ward the swarming little buggers > off. Went inside, found the Deep Woods Off and sprayed away all over me. > Back outside and the same thing. > > Any one with ideas can reply off list if necessary to > 2buckets@arbuckleonline.com > > Thanks, > > Kim Collins > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > >

Shelley, I'm talking the ones that bite and leave whelps. Got bit near my eye last year and it was swollen shut within an hour. Kim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Choctaw" <choctaw@bscn.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 11:21 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] GNATS!! HELP!!!!!!! > Kim, > What I know of "Buffalo gnats", you aren't talking about the little > brown pesky gnats. These bite and leave a big whelp or sore. And the bite > hurts! But Dad had them last year at his place in OK and I can check and > see what if anything they might know about keeping them off of you. His > wife is very "organic" and they do not use any sprays or pesticides of any > kind. I'll see what I can find out for you. > Shelley > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > >

Yakoke, Sean. BTW, among Choctaw families who had both summer and winter cabins, was it the case that the two cabins would be in the same locale, or in different geographic areas similar to those today who have a winter home in Arizona and a summer home in a cooler locale? Your description of their different heating and cooling characteristics, together with the limited geography occupied by the Choctaw, suggests to me that a family may have built both types of "log cabin" next to each other? During what time frame do you understand this practice of having seasonal homes started? At 07:11 AM 04/10/2001 -0500, Sean P. S. George wrote: >A couple of minor additions to Dusty's comments that I hope will also be >useful... > >The main distinction between the Choctaw (and other indigenous southeastern >tribes') dwellings and the colonial style "log cabins" most people know, is >that the Choctaw didn't stack the logs on top of each other horizontally. > Instead they stood them up vertically, with the bottom ends sunk into the >ground. > >Also, it was not uncommon for them to have separate dwellings for different >seasons. Summer cabins were larger, rectangular, with open-ended gables >for ventilation, while winter cabins were smaller and circular to retain >more heat. > >Finally, in swampy areas the palmetto hut was widely used as well. The >frame was built from sturdy poles, and the palmetto fronds were tied to the >frame in overlapping "shingle" fashion. > >An interesting sidenote is that when the people who had been used to >building with palmetto started using cut lumber in the late 1800's and >early 1900's, the would apparently fasten several shingles together into a >palmetto-like arrangement before attaching it to the house frame. > >Most of the above info can be found in Swanton's books: "Indians of the >Southeastern U.S." and "Source Material for the Social and Ceremonial Life >of the Choctaw". There's a great picture of the palmetto hut, and I know a >Houma guy who still knows how to build them the old way. > > >--Sean > >-----Original Message----- >From: Dusty [SMTP:dustyc@microgear.net] >Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 7:20 PM >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Mississippi Choctaw Dwellings > >Dennis: >The type of dwelling used down here on the Gulf Coast was called "wattle >and >daub", and was a combination of poles used to support the structure with >interwoven sticks, twigs or branches used for the walls. Native clay used >as mortar to hold the sticks together. Dwellings of this nature were still >in use on occasion at the turn of the century, later evolving into the "log >cabin" type structure seen more recently. > >In the extreme southern, swampy parts of La. and Miss., there is still in >use today a structure similar to a small log cabin which is built on a raft >made of cypress or pine logs lashed together. When the rains come in the >spring and the Mississippi river rises causing flooding throughout the >Atchafalaya Basin swamplands, these dwellings float up with the high >water. >They are still referred to by the Cajun people as "Choctaws", and are >sometimes used as temporary hunting lodges. > >dusty >----- Original Message ----- >From: Dennis Boswell <dennisb@primenet.com> >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 3:47 PM >Subject: [CHAHTA] Mississippi Choctaw Dwellings > > > > Halito, CHAHTA-L subscribers, > > > > This message concerns pre-removal Choctaw, not those living in IT >following > > removal. I make this distinction because my question (below) concerns >only > > those Choctaw living in Mississippi prior to and during removal. > > > > I understand they lived in log cabins resembling a Hogan (similar to >those > > used by Navajos with a hole in the roof to allow smoke to escape). An > > example of a Hogan may be seen at, > > > > http://www.m-w.com/mw/art/hogan.htm > > > > In established villages, I have no doubt their dwellings resembled the > > Hogan. However, there is a possibility that when they traveled to the > > flood plains of the Yazoo and Mississippi Delta on hunting trips (as was > > the custom in the fall after the harvest season), they may have used a >more > > transportable dwelling structure such as a tepee, a picture of which may >be > > seen at, > > > > http://www.m-w.com/mw/art/tepee.htm > > > > ... or a wigwam (similar to those used by ANs in the Great Lakes >region).a > > picture of which may be seen at, > > > > http://www.m-w.com/mw/art/wigwam.htm > > > > I have seen nothing that claims they ever used tepee- or wigwam-like > > dwellings, even while traveling overland. In fact, it seems likely that > > during overland travel and after arriving at their remote destination, >they > > may not have used any form of dwelling - portable or otherwise unless it > > was built on the spot out of materials on hand at the location. One >reason > > they may not have taken their dwellings with them is the fact that >Choctaws > > hunted west of the Mississippi before removal. Crossing the Mississippi > > while transporting any form of portable dwelling would make the crossing > > task that much more difficult. > > > > Does anyone on the list have an opinion or know of a reference concerning > > the use of dwellings, portable or otherwise, during extended periods of > > travel away from the village? > > > > NOTE: (to myself) Might Choctaw use of Hogan-like structures indicate an > > original west to east migration path that took Choctaw's ancestors >through > > Navajo lands en-route to Mississippi? > > > > Yakoke, > > > > Dennis K. Boswell > > 301 Crow Canyon Drive > > Folsom, CA 95630 > > > > Tel: (916) 987-3599 > > Fax: (916) 987-3555 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > >______________________________ > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at >http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. Regards, Dennis K. Boswell 301 Crow Canyon Drive Folsom, CA 95630 Tel: (916) 987-3599 Fax: (916) 987-3555

Chukma Shelly I live in Northern Calif where it is wher it grows all over. But I believe that any nusery will have them and you could plant it in you yard for future use. Its a small evergeen tree. Walk in Beauty Elkdreamer >From: "Choctaw" <choctaw@bscn.com> >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Smudging >Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 23:18:05 -0500 > >Yakoke Elk! > I appreciate all the help everyone has offered. I knew it didn't HAVE to >be done a "specific" way, but I just wasn't sure about doing the whole >house..well, unless I built a fire in the livingroom, but I doubt the >family >would like that in our new house :). > >I have on hand some sweetgrass and some sage, I always have tobacco >(although cigs are getting expensive to tear up) but where do I get >juniper? > >Yakoke chito >Shelley > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at >http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you! I think you can guess why. Juli At 11:24 PM 4/9/01 -0500, you wrote: ><snip> or >there's the good old Vicks Salve you can smear around...I use that to keep >wasps from building nests right over my doorway <snip> >B.

Found this info. online: I'll see what else I can find. "Buffalo gnats are small, humpbacked flies," says Phil Glogoza, entomologist for the North Dakota State University Extension Service. "They can be a major nuisance due to their buzzing presence and constant crawling, not to mention their irritating bite. Their tendency to bite increases toward sunset, but they don't bite after dark, and they seldom attack indoors, or even in a vehicle." Buffalo gnats may be more numerous near rivers and streams, since that's where the larvae develop. But they can be blown long distances. The best defense for people: clothing. "They don't bite through clothing," says Glogoza, "but do have a knack for crawling into hair and under clothing. Tucking trouser cuffs into socks prevents them from getting at the ankles. "These flies are attracted to dark colors, like blue, purple, brown and black. So wearing a light-colored shirt is a good idea-and wearing blue jeans might be a good choice, too, since that will help attract them away from your head. Insect repellents applied to exposed skin will provide some relief, though repellents applied to clothing remain active longer."

Build a fire with some dry cedar and pine knots...the smoke helps keep skeeters away...or you can try putting vinegar on your clothes...I have done that to keep the biting flies and skeeters off when I was mowing...or there's the good old Vicks Salve you can smear around...I use that to keep wasps from building nests right over my doorway and ants out of hummer feeders...they really don't like the menthol... B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kim Collins" <2buckets@arbuckleonline.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 11:11 PM Subject: [CHAHTA] GNATS!! HELP!!!!!!! > Off topic but a serious question. > Does any one have an idea of how to repel or do away with what we call buffalo or bull gnats? > They are so bad here that I could not even go out to water my garden tonight. I needed both hands to try and ward the swarming little buggers off. Went inside, found the Deep Woods Off and sprayed away all over me. Back outside and the same thing. > Any one with ideas can reply off list if necessary to 2buckets@arbuckleonline.com > Thanks, > Kim Collins > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

Kim, What I know of "Buffalo gnats", you aren't talking about the little brown pesky gnats. These bite and leave a big whelp or sore. And the bite hurts! But Dad had them last year at his place in OK and I can check and see what if anything they might know about keeping them off of you. His wife is very "organic" and they do not use any sprays or pesticides of any kind. I'll see what I can find out for you. Shelley

No, but I read that the Indians used leaves of Hickory tree to repel fleas. Fay ----- Original Message ----- From: Kim Collins <2buckets@arbuckleonline.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 9:11 PM Subject: [CHAHTA] GNATS!! HELP!!!!!!! > Off topic but a serious question. > Does any one have an idea of how to repel or do away with what we call buffalo or bull gnats? > They are so bad here that I could not even go out to water my garden tonight. I needed both hands to try and ward the swarming little buggers off. Went inside, found the Deep Woods Off and sprayed away all over me. Back outside and the same thing. > Any one with ideas can reply off list if necessary to 2buckets@arbuckleonline.com > Thanks, > Kim Collins > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

Yakoke Elk! I appreciate all the help everyone has offered. I knew it didn't HAVE to be done a "specific" way, but I just wasn't sure about doing the whole house..well, unless I built a fire in the livingroom, but I doubt the family would like that in our new house :). I have on hand some sweetgrass and some sage, I always have tobacco (although cigs are getting expensive to tear up) but where do I get juniper? Yakoke chito Shelley

Off topic but a serious question. Does any one have an idea of how to repel or do away with what we call buffalo or bull gnats? They are so bad here that I could not even go out to water my garden tonight. I needed both hands to try and ward the swarming little buggers off. Went inside, found the Deep Woods Off and sprayed away all over me. Back outside and the same thing. Any one with ideas can reply off list if necessary to 2buckets@arbuckleonline.com Thanks, Kim Collins

Dusty, there is a picture of such a house in the next book review. The Choctaw of Bayou Lacomb. Fay ----- Original Message ----- From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Mississippi Choctaw Dwellings > I can't recall every having heard those terms used with reference to Choctaw > dwellings, but whada' I know?? <lol> > > Also, the Natchez, Tunica, Houma etc. build a similar type of dwelling as I > previously described, but covered with palmetto leaves which is a native > plant that grows wild in the swamps and prairies of south Louisiana and > throught the Gulf Coast. Palmetto fronds/leaves were (and still are) used > to make fans, hats, clothing, etc. > > dusty > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dennis Boswell <dennisb@primenet.com> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 8:54 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Mississippi Choctaw Dwellings > > > > Dusty, > > > > One last thing - may I assume that you have never read or heard the terms > > "tepee" or "wigwam" used in any kind of a Choctaw context? > > > > > > At 07:20 PM 04/09/2001 -0500, you wrote: > > >Dennis: > > >The type of dwelling used down here on the Gulf Coast was called "wattle > and > > >daub", and was a combination of poles used to support the structure with > > >interwoven sticks, twigs or branches used for the walls. Native clay > used > > >as mortar to hold the sticks together. Dwellings of this nature were > still > > >in use on occasion at the turn of the century, later evolving into the > "log > > >cabin" type structure seen more recently. > > > > > >In the extreme southern, swampy parts of La. and Miss., there is still in > > >use today a structure similar to a small log cabin which is built on a > raft > > >made of cypress or pine logs lashed together. When the rains come in the > > >spring and the Mississippi river rises causing flooding throughout the > > >Atchafalaya Basin swamplands, these dwellings float up with the high > water. > > >They are still referred to by the Cajun people as "Choctaws", and are > > >sometimes used as temporary hunting lodges. > > > > > >dusty > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: Dennis Boswell <dennisb@primenet.com> > > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > >Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 3:47 PM > > >Subject: [CHAHTA] Mississippi Choctaw Dwellings > > > > > > > > > > Halito, CHAHTA-L subscribers, > > > > > > > > This message concerns pre-removal Choctaw, not those living in IT > > >following > > > > removal. I make this distinction because my question (below) concerns > only > > > > those Choctaw living in Mississippi prior to and during removal. > > > > > > > > I understand they lived in log cabins resembling a Hogan (similar to > those > > > > used by Navajos with a hole in the roof to allow smoke to escape). An > > > > example of a Hogan may be seen at, > > > > > > > > http://www.m-w.com/mw/art/hogan.htm > > > > > > > > In established villages, I have no doubt their dwellings resembled the > > > > Hogan. However, there is a possibility that when they traveled to the > > > > flood plains of the Yazoo and Mississippi Delta on hunting trips (as > was > > > > the custom in the fall after the harvest season), they may have used a > > >more > > > > transportable dwelling structure such as a tepee, a picture of which > may > > >be > > > > seen at, > > > > > > > > http://www.m-w.com/mw/art/tepee.htm > > > > > > > > ... or a wigwam (similar to those used by ANs in the Great Lakes > region).a > > > > picture of which may be seen at, > > > > > > > > http://www.m-w.com/mw/art/wigwam.htm > > > > > > > > I have seen nothing that claims they ever used tepee- or wigwam-like > > > > dwellings, even while traveling overland. In fact, it seems likely > that > > > > during overland travel and after arriving at their remote destination, > > >they > > > > may not have used any form of dwelling - portable or otherwise unless > it > > > > was built on the spot out of materials on hand at the location. One > reason > > > > they may not have taken their dwellings with them is the fact that > > >Choctaws > > > > hunted west of the Mississippi before removal. Crossing the > Mississippi > > > > while transporting any form of portable dwelling would make the > crossing > > > > task that much more difficult. > > > > > > > > Does anyone on the list have an opinion or know of a reference > concerning > > > > the use of dwellings, portable or otherwise, during extended periods > of > > > > travel away from the village? > > > > > > > > NOTE: (to myself) Might Choctaw use of Hogan-like structures indicate > an > > > > original west to east migration path that took Choctaw's ancestors > through > > > > Navajo lands en-route to Mississippi? > > > > > > > > Yakoke, > > > > > > > > Dennis K. Boswell > > > > 301 Crow Canyon Drive > > > > Folsom, CA 95630 > > > > > > > > Tel: (916) 987-3599 > > > > Fax: (916) 987-3555 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > >Choctaw Home Page: > > >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Dennis K. Boswell > > 301 Crow Canyon Drive > > Folsom, CA 95630 > > > > Tel: (916) 987-3599 > > Fax: (916) 987-3555 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Need more CHOCTAW information. Visit Rusty Lang's pages at http://www.choctaw-web.com for articles, censuses, etc. >

I received notification today from Rootsweb of some administrative changes, namely the ethnic communicty lists (which we are a part of) will be listed from now on under "Other/Ethnic-Native" in the Rootsweb directory and on their main page. This will not affect you guys in any way as far as posting, addresses, etc. It's merely a rearranging of categories within the RW system. dusty

Sounds good. IMHO I'm not sure there is any one "correct" way to do any ceremony. After all, what we're doing is praying and I've not yet met anyone who claims to know only one "correct" way for everyone to pray. Like the Common Book of Prayers, our leaders and elders may suggest standard ceremonies, but I believe it's up to us to adapt for our individual need. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Sally Tuttle <tuttles@netusa1.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Smudging > Dusty, > > I don't know if this is really Choctaw tradition but I use to watch my > grandmother smudge starting at the front door walking clear through the > whole house until she went out the back door. When she finished she would > mark over the front door. She would tell us that if someone open the door > after dark they would know not to enter if they had evil thoughts. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 7:28 AM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Smudging > > > > It is my understanding that ceremonies involving "smudging" are done for > > purification/strenghtening purposes prior to other ceremonies. We > > smudge/smoke ourselves before entering the dance circle at pow wows or > > entering a medicine wheel or medicine circle to remove anything that > > shouldn't be attached when one steps into these sacred areas. > > > > dusty > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Choctaw <choctaw@bscn.com> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 12:33 AM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Smudging > > > > > > > Does anyone do smudging ceremonies? Are these Chahta at all? I'm > > learning > > > to do them, and do feel good about it, but wondered if this was > something > > > done long ago. I'd really like to learn more about this. Any idea? > > > Shelley > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. >

I can't recall every having heard those terms used with reference to Choctaw dwellings, but whada' I know?? <lol> Also, the Natchez, Tunica, Houma etc. build a similar type of dwelling as I previously described, but covered with palmetto leaves which is a native plant that grows wild in the swamps and prairies of south Louisiana and throught the Gulf Coast. Palmetto fronds/leaves were (and still are) used to make fans, hats, clothing, etc. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Boswell <dennisb@primenet.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 8:54 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Mississippi Choctaw Dwellings > Dusty, > > One last thing - may I assume that you have never read or heard the terms > "tepee" or "wigwam" used in any kind of a Choctaw context? > > > At 07:20 PM 04/09/2001 -0500, you wrote: > >Dennis: > >The type of dwelling used down here on the Gulf Coast was called "wattle and > >daub", and was a combination of poles used to support the structure with > >interwoven sticks, twigs or branches used for the walls. Native clay used > >as mortar to hold the sticks together. Dwellings of this nature were still > >in use on occasion at the turn of the century, later evolving into the "log > >cabin" type structure seen more recently. > > > >In the extreme southern, swampy parts of La. and Miss., there is still in > >use today a structure similar to a small log cabin which is built on a raft > >made of cypress or pine logs lashed together. When the rains come in the > >spring and the Mississippi river rises causing flooding throughout the > >Atchafalaya Basin swamplands, these dwellings float up with the high water. > >They are still referred to by the Cajun people as "Choctaws", and are > >sometimes used as temporary hunting lodges. > > > >dusty > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Dennis Boswell <dennisb@primenet.com> > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 3:47 PM > >Subject: [CHAHTA] Mississippi Choctaw Dwellings > > > > > > > Halito, CHAHTA-L subscribers, > > > > > > This message concerns pre-removal Choctaw, not those living in IT > >following > > > removal. I make this distinction because my question (below) concerns only > > > those Choctaw living in Mississippi prior to and during removal. > > > > > > I understand they lived in log cabins resembling a Hogan (similar to those > > > used by Navajos with a hole in the roof to allow smoke to escape). An > > > example of a Hogan may be seen at, > > > > > > http://www.m-w.com/mw/art/hogan.htm > > > > > > In established villages, I have no doubt their dwellings resembled the > > > Hogan. However, there is a possibility that when they traveled to the > > > flood plains of the Yazoo and Mississippi Delta on hunting trips (as was > > > the custom in the fall after the harvest season), they may have used a > >more > > > transportable dwelling structure such as a tepee, a picture of which may > >be > > > seen at, > > > > > > http://www.m-w.com/mw/art/tepee.htm > > > > > > ... or a wigwam (similar to those used by ANs in the Great Lakes region).a > > > picture of which may be seen at, > > > > > > http://www.m-w.com/mw/art/wigwam.htm > > > > > > I have seen nothing that claims they ever used tepee- or wigwam-like > > > dwellings, even while traveling overland. In fact, it seems likely that > > > during overland travel and after arriving at their remote destination, > >they > > > may not have used any form of dwelling - portable or otherwise unless it > > > was built on the spot out of materials on hand at the location. One reason > > > they may not have taken their dwellings with them is the fact that > >Choctaws > > > hunted west of the Mississippi before removal. Crossing the Mississippi > > > while transporting any form of portable dwelling would make the crossing > > > task that much more difficult. > > > > > > Does anyone on the list have an opinion or know of a reference concerning > > > the use of dwellings, portable or otherwise, during extended periods of > > > travel away from the village? > > > > > > NOTE: (to myself) Might Choctaw use of Hogan-like structures indicate an > > > original west to east migration path that took Choctaw's ancestors through > > > Navajo lands en-route to Mississippi? > > > > > > Yakoke, > > > > > > Dennis K. Boswell > > > 301 Crow Canyon Drive > > > Folsom, CA 95630 > > > > > > Tel: (916) 987-3599 > > > Fax: (916) 987-3555 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > >Choctaw Home Page: > >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > Regards, > > Dennis K. Boswell > 301 Crow Canyon Drive > Folsom, CA 95630 > > Tel: (916) 987-3599 > Fax: (916) 987-3555 > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. >

Halito Shelly You can use a sage bundle to do it. What I usially do and this is the way we bless the Sweat lodge also. First you burn juniper and Tobacco to call all of the Spirit's. You have to call all of them good and bad at the same time. Then you burn Sage to ask the bad ones to leave in a good way. When you smndge with the Sage go compleatly around your property line in a clockwise direction , then each Room inside the house from the outer walls ending up in the center of your home. Always in a clock wise direction. Then each member of you household. Hold the sage toward the east Say a prayer to grandfather and ask his blessings for what you have just done. This is the way I was taught to do it. Walk in Beauty Elkdreamer >From: "Choctaw" <choctaw@bscn.com> >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Smudging >Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 13:41:48 -0500 > >Elk, > I need to know how to smudge my home. I have a new home that we just >moved into a couple of months ago. I was out of sage and just got more >today. I've smudge blanket and myself outside over a fire, but I'm not >sure >how I should go about smudging the house and I want to do it the right way. >Any help you can give me would be appreciated. >Yakoke, >Shelley > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: >Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Dusty, I don't know if this is really Choctaw tradition but I use to watch my grandmother smudge starting at the front door walking clear through the whole house until she went out the back door. When she finished she would mark over the front door. She would tell us that if someone open the door after dark they would know not to enter if they had evil thoughts. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 7:28 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Smudging > It is my understanding that ceremonies involving "smudging" are done for > purification/strenghtening purposes prior to other ceremonies. We > smudge/smoke ourselves before entering the dance circle at pow wows or > entering a medicine wheel or medicine circle to remove anything that > shouldn't be attached when one steps into these sacred areas. > > dusty > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Choctaw <choctaw@bscn.com> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 12:33 AM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Smudging > > > > Does anyone do smudging ceremonies? Are these Chahta at all? I'm > learning > > to do them, and do feel good about it, but wondered if this was something > > done long ago. I'd really like to learn more about this. Any idea? > > Shelley > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > >

Here's the significance of the herbs as explained to me many years ago: Sage - wisdom Cedar - strength Sweetgrass - compassion Tobacco - sacred gift from Creator I don't remember if this was from one particular nation or not> dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: faynshep <faynshep@telapex.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 8:14 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Smudging > I don't remember where I read it, but I do remember it saying about smudging > a room, start in the center of the room and make circles widening each time > until you reach the walls and make sure to smudge the corners. > Fay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 2:47 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Smudging > > > > One of the herbs used by the Southeastern Tribes was cedar.There is no > > incorrect way to smudge. When we connect with Creator and set a Sacred > > Intent we will be guided to do what we should. The Ancestors are there > > waiting to help. > > I have seen smudging done in many ways by many different tribes of > people > > using many different herbs and all were correct. It is about cleansing and > > allowing that which is good to come and that which is not to go away. > > Sage and Cedar are the big cleansers and Sweet Grass is very much what > > it says. It calls in the sweetness or the " Good Guys " > > I smudge my home from time to time depending on how it feels to me. > Also > > I smudge my car or anything else that I feel needs it. > > For the house I go to each room and cleanse it and then walk around > > outside the house to cleanse the area.It is a matter of letting the smoke > > permiate the house inside and out. > > By the way, if you have a smoke detector, better take it down while you > > are smudging.haha! It can jar you a little. > > Arla > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

Dennis: The type of dwelling used down here on the Gulf Coast was called "wattle and daub", and was a combination of poles used to support the structure with interwoven sticks, twigs or branches used for the walls. Native clay used as mortar to hold the sticks together. Dwellings of this nature were still in use on occasion at the turn of the century, later evolving into the "log cabin" type structure seen more recently. In the extreme southern, swampy parts of La. and Miss., there is still in use today a structure similar to a small log cabin which is built on a raft made of cypress or pine logs lashed together. When the rains come in the spring and the Mississippi river rises causing flooding throughout the Atchafalaya Basin swamplands, these dwellings float up with the high water. They are still referred to by the Cajun people as "Choctaws", and are sometimes used as temporary hunting lodges. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Boswell <dennisb@primenet.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 3:47 PM Subject: [CHAHTA] Mississippi Choctaw Dwellings > Halito, CHAHTA-L subscribers, > > This message concerns pre-removal Choctaw, not those living in IT following > removal. I make this distinction because my question (below) concerns only > those Choctaw living in Mississippi prior to and during removal. > > I understand they lived in log cabins resembling a Hogan (similar to those > used by Navajos with a hole in the roof to allow smoke to escape). An > example of a Hogan may be seen at, > > http://www.m-w.com/mw/art/hogan.htm > > In established villages, I have no doubt their dwellings resembled the > Hogan. However, there is a possibility that when they traveled to the > flood plains of the Yazoo and Mississippi Delta on hunting trips (as was > the custom in the fall after the harvest season), they may have used a more > transportable dwelling structure such as a tepee, a picture of which may be > seen at, > > http://www.m-w.com/mw/art/tepee.htm > > ... or a wigwam (similar to those used by ANs in the Great Lakes region).a > picture of which may be seen at, > > http://www.m-w.com/mw/art/wigwam.htm > > I have seen nothing that claims they ever used tepee- or wigwam-like > dwellings, even while traveling overland. In fact, it seems likely that > during overland travel and after arriving at their remote destination, they > may not have used any form of dwelling - portable or otherwise unless it > was built on the spot out of materials on hand at the location. One reason > they may not have taken their dwellings with them is the fact that Choctaws > hunted west of the Mississippi before removal. Crossing the Mississippi > while transporting any form of portable dwelling would make the crossing > task that much more difficult. > > Does anyone on the list have an opinion or know of a reference concerning > the use of dwellings, portable or otherwise, during extended periods of > travel away from the village? > > NOTE: (to myself) Might Choctaw use of Hogan-like structures indicate an > original west to east migration path that took Choctaw's ancestors through > Navajo lands en-route to Mississippi? > > Yakoke, > > Dennis K. Boswell > 301 Crow Canyon Drive > Folsom, CA 95630 > > Tel: (916) 987-3599 > Fax: (916) 987-3555 > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

Dusty, One last thing - may I assume that you have never read or heard the terms "tepee" or "wigwam" used in any kind of a Choctaw context? At 07:20 PM 04/09/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Dennis: >The type of dwelling used down here on the Gulf Coast was called "wattle and >daub", and was a combination of poles used to support the structure with >interwoven sticks, twigs or branches used for the walls. Native clay used >as mortar to hold the sticks together. Dwellings of this nature were still >in use on occasion at the turn of the century, later evolving into the "log >cabin" type structure seen more recently. > >In the extreme southern, swampy parts of La. and Miss., there is still in >use today a structure similar to a small log cabin which is built on a raft >made of cypress or pine logs lashed together. When the rains come in the >spring and the Mississippi river rises causing flooding throughout the >Atchafalaya Basin swamplands, these dwellings float up with the high water. >They are still referred to by the Cajun people as "Choctaws", and are >sometimes used as temporary hunting lodges. > >dusty >----- Original Message ----- >From: Dennis Boswell <dennisb@primenet.com> >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 3:47 PM >Subject: [CHAHTA] Mississippi Choctaw Dwellings > > > > Halito, CHAHTA-L subscribers, > > > > This message concerns pre-removal Choctaw, not those living in IT >following > > removal. I make this distinction because my question (below) concerns only > > those Choctaw living in Mississippi prior to and during removal. > > > > I understand they lived in log cabins resembling a Hogan (similar to those > > used by Navajos with a hole in the roof to allow smoke to escape). An > > example of a Hogan may be seen at, > > > > http://www.m-w.com/mw/art/hogan.htm > > > > In established villages, I have no doubt their dwellings resembled the > > Hogan. However, there is a possibility that when they traveled to the > > flood plains of the Yazoo and Mississippi Delta on hunting trips (as was > > the custom in the fall after the harvest season), they may have used a >more > > transportable dwelling structure such as a tepee, a picture of which may >be > > seen at, > > > > http://www.m-w.com/mw/art/tepee.htm > > > > ... or a wigwam (similar to those used by ANs in the Great Lakes region).a > > picture of which may be seen at, > > > > http://www.m-w.com/mw/art/wigwam.htm > > > > I have seen nothing that claims they ever used tepee- or wigwam-like > > dwellings, even while traveling overland. In fact, it seems likely that > > during overland travel and after arriving at their remote destination, >they > > may not have used any form of dwelling - portable or otherwise unless it > > was built on the spot out of materials on hand at the location. One reason > > they may not have taken their dwellings with them is the fact that >Choctaws > > hunted west of the Mississippi before removal. Crossing the Mississippi > > while transporting any form of portable dwelling would make the crossing > > task that much more difficult. > > > > Does anyone on the list have an opinion or know of a reference concerning > > the use of dwellings, portable or otherwise, during extended periods of > > travel away from the village? > > > > NOTE: (to myself) Might Choctaw use of Hogan-like structures indicate an > > original west to east migration path that took Choctaw's ancestors through > > Navajo lands en-route to Mississippi? > > > > Yakoke, > > > > Dennis K. Boswell > > 301 Crow Canyon Drive > > Folsom, CA 95630 > > > > Tel: (916) 987-3599 > > Fax: (916) 987-3555 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >Choctaw Home Page: >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ Regards, Dennis K. Boswell 301 Crow Canyon Drive Folsom, CA 95630 Tel: (916) 987-3599 Fax: (916) 987-3555