>>>>But if you just hang in there and conduct yourself in a proper manner the truth will always win out.<<<<<<<<<< This is exactly right. Or I should say it is what I have seen. Dodie

In a message dated 5/24/00 1:49:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: << Thank you, you hit the nail on the head! You are exactly correct. As a "non card carrying" Indian myself, who hangs out with. from full bloods all the way down to a little bit of blood.... and from many different tribes... some are elders on the council of their tribes. I have always been treated with respect for who I am, not my blood quantum. Not once have I been asked "do you have a CDIB card?"... not once have I been asked "how much blood are you?"... nor.. "are you a real Indian?" You're right when you say you can spot someone who has been watching to many movies! The people I know, talk just like everyone else. I have spent time in many of their homes, and they are just the same! Everyone laughs, and talks normal just like me. <G> Well... OK... I may sound a little bit more country than some of them! haha Markie >> Markie, do you not want a CDIB card? If you don't, that is perfectly all right. I think that people can and should become active in active in a tribal community if they live in close proximity. What bothers me about your post is that you say you can spot someone who has "seen a lot of movies." I'm not sure just what that means. For one who has seen lots of movies, you may remember a movie called, "Exodus." In it Peter Lawford, portraying a British officer, is talking to Paul Newman, impersonating a British officer. Lawford tells News that he can "spot a Jew a mile away." Newman is chuckling to himself, for the statement he has just heard. Maybe your full-blood and and other friends respect you but in the final analysis, if you are asked for some reason to back up your statement that you are Indian, you will be in the proverbial pickle. By the way, I belong to a state-recognized tribe in West Virginia (Applachian American Indians of West Virginia). I am not federally recognized yet, but working on it. Does that mean I will look down on others for not wanting or having their cards? Not one bit. What another wants to do is their business, but when I hear people who describe themselves as Indians and call others (who admittedly may be a might overzealous) "new agers" or "wannabees" because they don't have all of the right friends and aren't as knowledgable about Native ways, it becomes a bitter pill to swallow. Carol Jean

I am new to the list and have just been on the sidelines mostly reading and soaking in all that is being said. I can agree with some of what most people are saying. True there are some who will always look down on those of us who do not have a card. That does not make us any less Indian in our hearts and souls. I can see their wariness as they have already had so much taken away from them and are leery that it might be just another ploy that will strip away just a little more of their heritage. But I have also found that if you approach things with a sincere and open heart and don't go overboard trying to push your way into their circle they will take the time to look and will see the 'spirit' that you carry inside. Once they do it has been my experience that they will open up to you, accept you into their hearts and lives whether you can prove a paper trail or not and whether you are of their same tribe or not. So many times they have been 'put off' by some of these folks who are so anxious to be 'indian' that they grab onto a little bit of this and that regardless of what tribe it came from just because it sounds good or looks good. And to make matters worse they will not listen to anything different from what they read in so and so's book or such and such 'medicine person' told them. Those are the ones that make it hard for some of the rest of us out here without cards or strikingly visible blood lines to be accepted by the native community. But if you just hang in there and conduct yourself in a proper manner the truth will always win out. Thanks for letting me vent my feelings. I intend no disrespect to anyone whether we may agree or not. Just thought I'd put my two cents worth in. Cathy ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Re: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-D Digest V00 #346 > I would also like to share something. There are card-carrying Indians who > try to mislead the people who want to know about their heritage. I know for > a fact of one person in Oklahoma who is in the NA chatrooms constantly asking > for money for his "tribe." He is what might be termed, "meat, for the beasts > of the field." (Prophet Ezekiel) > > I would like to say something about the comment about seeing "Dances with > Wolves." Personally, I have only seen it twice. It didn't really do > anything for me, but the Creator speaks to the hearts of people through all > mediums. Yes, there are "New Agers," though there is nothing new about them > but I also believe that our ancestors are awakening us and this is what might > be called a Native American spiritual revival. > > Though I do no belong to any organized religion I remember the biblical story > of the chaff and the wheat (NT teaching of Jesus), to let them grow up > together lest they take out the wheat, instead of the chaff; when the times > comes to separate them, it will be done by the ones who knows the hearts and > minds of the human being. > > In closing, I am reminded of a line in a movie I did see. The words were > profound. "Listen to the wind, it'll tell you things, Kola." (Graham Greene > to Val Kilmer, Thunderheart) > > Carol Jean > > Carol Jean > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.htm > Choctaw Chat: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/chat.htm >

What's the address to some of those NA chat rooms? ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Re: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-D Digest V00 #346 > I would also like to share something. There are card-carrying Indians who > try to mislead the people who want to know about their heritage. I know for > a fact of one person in Oklahoma who is in the NA chatrooms constantly asking > for money for his "tribe." He is what might be termed, "meat, for the beasts > of the field." (Prophet Ezekiel) > > I would like to say something about the comment about seeing "Dances with > Wolves." Personally, I have only seen it twice. It didn't really do > anything for me, but the Creator speaks to the hearts of people through all > mediums. Yes, there are "New Agers," though there is nothing new about them > but I also believe that our ancestors are awakening us and this is what might > be called a Native American spiritual revival. > > Though I do no belong to any organized religion I remember the biblical story > of the chaff and the wheat (NT teaching of Jesus), to let them grow up > together lest they take out the wheat, instead of the chaff; when the times > comes to separate them, it will be done by the ones who knows the hearts and > minds of the human being. > > In closing, I am reminded of a line in a movie I did see. The words were > profound. "Listen to the wind, it'll tell you things, Kola." (Graham Greene > to Val Kilmer, Thunderheart) > > Carol Jean > > Carol Jean > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.htm > Choctaw Chat: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/chat.htm > >

I would also like to share something. There are card-carrying Indians who try to mislead the people who want to know about their heritage. I know for a fact of one person in Oklahoma who is in the NA chatrooms constantly asking for money for his "tribe." He is what might be termed, "meat, for the beasts of the field." (Prophet Ezekiel) I would like to say something about the comment about seeing "Dances with Wolves." Personally, I have only seen it twice. It didn't really do anything for me, but the Creator speaks to the hearts of people through all mediums. Yes, there are "New Agers," though there is nothing new about them but I also believe that our ancestors are awakening us and this is what might be called a Native American spiritual revival. Though I do no belong to any organized religion I remember the biblical story of the chaff and the wheat (NT teaching of Jesus), to let them grow up together lest they take out the wheat, instead of the chaff; when the times comes to separate them, it will be done by the ones who knows the hearts and minds of the human being. In closing, I am reminded of a line in a movie I did see. The words were profound. "Listen to the wind, it'll tell you things, Kola." (Graham Greene to Val Kilmer, Thunderheart) Carol Jean Carol Jean

Hello: I'm new to the list. I am Dodie. Chahta/Cherokee, living in TX. I am not full blood. Nor will I have a card. personal thing about gov. The gov. wanted the card for the simple reason of leasing the amount of Indians. If your not enrolled your not Indian. Well, we all still Indians but it has caused division in our people. I too have friends from chiefs to very little blood and an Indian is an Indian. None of us care how much blood. You are right the "new agers" are making the division worse and the wannabees are making it worse also. Dodie "FORGIVE YOUR ENEMIES BUT REMEMBER THEIR NAMES" > > >>>>>>>FREE LEONARD PELTIER IN 2000<<<<<<< Mascot Petition: http://www.setaim.com/setaim_petition.html Stop George W Bush from being the President of Death NATIONAL DOMESTIC VIOLENCE HOT LINE(1-800-799-SAFE) 24 Hour Hotline Toll Free: 1-877-633-1112 http://www.thehungersite.com/

Hi Theresa, Welcome HOME!! <G> Thank you, you hit the nail on the head! You are exactly correct. As a "non card carrying" Indian myself, who hangs out with.. from full bloods all the way down to a little bit of blood.... and from many different tribes... some are elders on the council of their tribes. I have always been treated with respect for who I am, not my blood quantum. Not once have I been asked "do you have a CDIB card?"... not once have I been asked "how much blood are you?"... nor.. "are you a real Indian?" You're right when you say you can spot someone who has been watching to many movies! The people I know, talk just like everyone else. I have spent time in many of their homes, and they are just the same! Everyone laughs, and talks normal just like me. <G> Well... OK... I may sound a little bit more country than some of them! haha Markie At 12:34 PM 05/24/2000 -0700, you wrote: >As stated, there is so much discussion over this and sometimes it is >offensive. From what I have learned from hanging out with mostly "card >carrying" Indians is that the problems that have caused this big "are you a >provable Indian" animosity comes from "New Agers" those who were Indian in >another life, they take the spiritual things of the people and try to "cash >in" on them. They speak like ... well what can only be described as "someone >who has seen dances with wolves one to many times". They give themselves >some made up "made for TV name" and after only a little reading they are >real experts in everything Indian. Or those folks who have hung out around >pow wow so long that they try to convince anyone who will listen that they >are a big time spiritual leader for their tribe and the stuff that they are >teaching as true "tribal ways of their tribe" is that of the Lakota or some >other tribe. It is because of the fakes and phonies that those who can prove >their heritage get offensive about if you really are of Blood or if your >Grandpa was a Chief and your Grandmother was a Princess. >This is just my take on the situation and what I have observed most >provable Indian people are very kind to those who are still looking, when >that person is respectful and does not try to act and speak in a "movie >character" way. > >Recently there was a man within our view who played a flute, he was billed >out as some super spiritual leader there was no proof that he was Indian but >he came before the people telling these "spiritual ways" and how he had to >fast & pray before playing his flute. Although the bull impressed those who >knew nothing about who their were, those who new better were saying that he >was "A white guy playing flute elevator music". After all this talk of >"spiritual ways" he went up to a "real traditionalist" and inviting him to >join him, after he collect his money, to go the hotel bar for brew. This >was a insult to what he was "selling" and cheapened the whole thing. >Just sharing what I have observed and in no way insulting anyone, just >trying to let those who can not understand why "provables" sometimes have >hard feelings.

As stated, there is so much discussion over this and sometimes it is offensive. From what I have learned from hanging out with mostly "card carrying" Indians is that the problems that have caused this big "are you a provable Indian" animosity comes from "New Agers" those who were Indian in another life, they take the spiritual things of the people and try to "cash in" on them. They speak like ... well what can only be described as "someone who has seen dances with wolves one to many times". They give themselves some made up "made for TV name" and after only a little reading they are real experts in everything Indian. Or those folks who have hung out around pow wow so long that they try to convince anyone who will listen that they are a big time spiritual leader for their tribe and the stuff that they are teaching as true "tribal ways of their tribe" is that of the Lakota or some other tribe. It is because of the fakes and phonies that those who can prove their heritage get offensive about if you really are of Blood or if your Grandpa was a Chief and your Grandmother was a Princess. This is just my take on the situation and what I have observed most provable Indian people are very kind to those who are still looking, when that person is respectful and does not try to act and speak in a "movie character" way. Recently there was a man within our view who played a flute, he was billed out as some super spiritual leader there was no proof that he was Indian but he came before the people telling these "spiritual ways" and how he had to fast & pray before playing his flute. Although the bull impressed those who knew nothing about who their were, those who new better were saying that he was "A white guy playing flute elevator music". After all this talk of "spiritual ways" he went up to a "real traditionalist" and inviting him to join him, after he collect his money, to go the hotel bar for brew. This was a insult to what he was "selling" and cheapened the whole thing. Just sharing what I have observed and in no way insulting anyone, just trying to let those who can not understand why "provables" sometimes have hard feelings. ----- Original Message ----- From: Markie <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 10:55 AM Subject: [CHAHTA] Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Re: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-D Digest V00 #346 > >Resent-Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 08:07:08 -0700 (PDT) > >From: "Skydancer" <[email protected]> > >To: [email protected] > > > >Jim > >I don't know what the INDIAN is in people..I know the things I believe..Does > >it > >mean I have to carry a symbol of this on my person..NO it is in my heart. It > >does NOT take yours or anyones approval. There is only one person I need > >approval from and that is the Creator. I am supposed to be part Irish..but > >do I > >need to have a card to prove this too? NO!!! A person that is in tune with > >THEMSELVES know who they ARE. This takes no approval from ANYONE. > >I have heard so much of this CARD..I have just turned down the opportunity > >of having a CARD, because I don't need the CARD to tell me who I AM. > >Creator knows who I am this is enough proof for me. > >Skydancer > > > >May the Creator light your path, > >and you will forever walk in peace. > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Jim Morrison, Jr." <[email protected]> > >To: <[email protected]> > >Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 9:19 AM > >Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Re: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-D Digest V00 #346 > > > > > >| I just don't quite see the logic in this. You mean that all a person has > >to > >| do is say they are Indian and they WILL BE reconized as such? WHO will > >| reconize them without proof? > >| > >| > >| > >| > >| At 12:47 AM 5/23/00 EDT, you wrote: > >| >In a message dated 05/22/2000 8:37:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > >| >[email protected] writes: > >| > > >| ><< Unfortunately, we Natives have to have proof in order to enroll in a > >| > Federally recognized tribe. It does not mean we are not as good as > >other > >| > people, it's just the way things are. > >| > > >| > Carol Jean >> > >| >I understand that we must have proof to enroll. My point is that we > >don't > >| >need proof to be Indian. > >| > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.htm > Choctaw Chat: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/chat.htm > >

>Resent-Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 10:52:48 -0700 (PDT) >From: [email protected] > >In a message dated 5/23/00 8:07:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >[email protected] writes: > ><< I am supposed to be part Irish..but > do I > need to have a card to prove this too? NO!!! A person that is in tune with > THEMSELVES know who they ARE. This takes no approval from ANYONE. > I have heard so much of this CARD..I have just turned down the opportunity > of having a CARD, because I don't need the CARD to tell me who I AM. > Creator knows who I am this is enough proof for me. > Skydancer >> > > >I think this is a great attitude but are you are part of a community? Some >people not only need to be recognized by their kin but also to be a part of a >community and and recognized by them as being Indian. You can see what has >happened in when our ancestors turned down their opportunity and the problem >it has cause for their descendants, the descendants who now have that >spiritual awakening and can once again be proud of who they. > >Just my observation. > >Carol Jean >

>Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 09:30:14 -0700 (PDT) > >Old-Date: 23 May 00 09:30:13 PDT >From: Katherine Nell McNeil <[email protected]> >To: [email protected], [email protected] > >Jim, >There are those who want 'proof' because they think they can access tribal >funds. There are those who want to prove the oral stories that have been >handed down through family history...(me). But the WHO will recognize them >without proof is only relevant to who is asking the question. Being Choctaw >or any tribe is within the heart and spirit. It is how one carrys themself. >It is how an individual see and feels things. A piece of paper is nothing >more than a piece of paper. Who is Indian has been debated for years in many >avenues. It continues to be debated. Is is bood, is it cultural? There are >many that have the blood but have no connection to their heritage. There are >those who have minute blood but have established cultural connections within >the Indian community that they live. Personally, for me I just wanted to know >which relatives that I can honor for the sacrifices that they made. No piece >of paper can tell me how I should carry myself. No piece of paper can tell me >that I need to make sure that the elders at a Powwow are served dinner before >you serve yourself. No piece of paper can tell me that my actions either >bring honor or dishonor on my extended family. Proof? It is all relative. >I respectfully give you my thoughts, >Katherine Nell Hill McNeil > >"Jim Morrison, Jr." <[email protected]> wrote: >I just don't quite see the logic in this. You mean that all a person has to >do is say they are Indian and they WILL BE reconized as such? WHO will >reconize them without proof? > > > > >At 12:47 AM 5/23/00 EDT, you wrote: >>In a message dated 05/22/2000 8:37:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >>[email protected] writes: >> >><< Unfortunately, we Natives have to have proof in order to enroll in a >> Federally recognized tribe. It does not mean we are not as good as other >> people, it's just the way things are. >> >> Carol Jean >> >>I understand that we must have proof to enroll. My point is that we don't >>need proof to be Indian. >>

>Resent-Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 08:07:08 -0700 (PDT) >From: "Skydancer" <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] > >Jim >I don't know what the INDIAN is in people..I know the things I believe..Does >it >mean I have to carry a symbol of this on my person..NO it is in my heart. It >does NOT take yours or anyones approval. There is only one person I need >approval from and that is the Creator. I am supposed to be part Irish..but >do I >need to have a card to prove this too? NO!!! A person that is in tune with >THEMSELVES know who they ARE. This takes no approval from ANYONE. >I have heard so much of this CARD..I have just turned down the opportunity >of having a CARD, because I don't need the CARD to tell me who I AM. >Creator knows who I am this is enough proof for me. >Skydancer > >May the Creator light your path, >and you will forever walk in peace. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jim Morrison, Jr." <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 9:19 AM >Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Re: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-D Digest V00 #346 > > >| I just don't quite see the logic in this. You mean that all a person has >to >| do is say they are Indian and they WILL BE reconized as such? WHO will >| reconize them without proof? >| >| >| >| >| At 12:47 AM 5/23/00 EDT, you wrote: >| >In a message dated 05/22/2000 8:37:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >| >[email protected] writes: >| > >| ><< Unfortunately, we Natives have to have proof in order to enroll in a >| > Federally recognized tribe. It does not mean we are not as good as >other >| > people, it's just the way things are. >| > >| > Carol Jean >> >| >I understand that we must have proof to enroll. My point is that we >don't >| >need proof to be Indian. >| > >

>Resent-Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 07:18:58 -0700 (PDT) >From: "Jim Morrison, Jr." <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [CHOCTAW-SE] Re: CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-D Digest V00 #346 >I just don't quite see the logic in this. You mean that all a person has to >do is say they are Indian and they WILL BE reconized as such? WHO will >reconize them without proof? > > > > >At 12:47 AM 5/23/00 EDT, you wrote: >>In a message dated 05/22/2000 8:37:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >>[email protected] writes: >> >><< Unfortunately, we Natives have to have proof in order to enroll in a >> Federally recognized tribe. It does not mean we are not as good as other >> people, it's just the way things are. >> >> Carol Jean >> >>I understand that we must have proof to enroll. My point is that we don't >>need proof to be Indian. >>

The sound that may have been being described that is a series of the word lu in a very high pitch and very fast lu,lu,lu,lu,lu,lu.lu,lu,lu,lu,lu,lu,lu,lu,lu,lu.lu,lu,lu,lu (the word sounding lik lou as in louis) the other sound would be hard to discribe more like a yelp repeated a few times. Do not know if that would help, hard to get the point across in written word. The best place to find information on the Choctaw is to contact the Mississippi band of Choctaw Indians in Philedelphia, Mississippi the are still very "in to" the culture and the traditions. Most of the Oklahoma Nation is in to the white world. How ever a very good source on Oklahoma and my first choice of where to call would be the Choctaw Nation 1-800-522-6170 Ask how to reach Councilman Charlie Jones. He is very traditional and had a wealth of knowledge taught to him in the old way. Theresa Harrison, Liaison Okla Chahta Clan of CA., Inc. ----- Original Message ----- From: Josie Rourke <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 12:52 PM Subject: [CHAHTA] London West-end Theatre - I need your advice > Donmar Warehouse, > London, > England. > > > Hello, > > I am the resident assistant director at the Donmar Warehouse theatre, in > London's west-end. We are perhaps best known by our artistic director, > Oscar-winner Sam Mendes. > > We are currently in rehearsal for a production of Tennessee Williams' > classic play 'Orpheus Descending'. As you may know, the play is set in > Mississippi and contains a character who is part Choctaw. > > At two key points in the play, the character utters what the script calls > the 'Choctaw cry'. The stage directions go on to describe the cry as 'a > series of barking sounds that rise to a high sustained note of intensity'. > > >From our research into the Choctaw nation, we became immediately aware of > your complex and fascinating heritage. Both the director and I are anxious > that the 'Choctaw cry' that the script calls for, be as authentic as > possible. We assume that Tennessee Williams is describing an actual 'cry' > that he heard himself, most likely during his childhood in the South. > > Any help or guidance that you could give us would be greatly appreciated. > > I look forward to hearing from you. > > Regards > > Josie Rourke > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: > Send msg. to [email protected] > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > >

----- Original Message ----- From: patsy8259 To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 7:42 PM Subject: Choctaw Cry, Tennessee Williams Play Josie, Here are some things that may be of interest to you for your play. Some phone numbers are included. Let me know how things work out on the play. 1. Choctaw Nation Museum ( there may be some written history about the "Choctaw Cry". (lots of old timers hang out here and they should be able to help you, I would ask the museum curator and former ones if they are still alive in the area) Tuskahoma is where I used to live and they would know anything and everything here, I would think. Tuskahoma is a very small place. address: Route 1 Box 105AAA Tuskahoma, Oklahoma 74574 telephone:918-569-4465 2. The Native American Directory (you can probably order this book through the interlibrary loan program with the Library of Congress free of charge)(go to the back of this book and you will find tons of Indian information and you can go directly to Choctaw in the Directory.(music, magazines and other things of interest). number: E762N371996 published by National Native American Cooperative Fred Snyder Director (you might contact this director to get more inside information) 3. Indian Journal (periodical, magazine)) address: Box 689 Eufaula,Oklahoma 74432 4. Wilburton Oklahoma also has a small college there and might be of some help in your research. There is also I believe a Choctaw College somewhere in the area; it is in the book listed in number # 2 5. Bishinik Newspaper Choctaw Nation P.O. Drawer 1210 Durant, Oklahoma 74701 telephone: 405-924-8280 fax: 405-924-1150 6. (Magazine) The Buckskin, Route 3, Eufaula, Oklahoma, 74432 7. ( Indian Music ) Indian Records, PO Box 47, Fay Oklahoma 73153 telephone: 405793-1442 8. Talihina Agency , Bureau of Indian Affairs PO Drawer H Talihina Okalahoma74571 telephone: 918-567-2207 fax: 918-567-2061

can you send me also your webpage address? [email protected] ----- Original Message ----- From: Josie Rourke <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 12:52 PM Subject: [CHAHTA] London West-end Theatre - I need your advice > Donmar Warehouse, > London, > England. > > > Hello, > > I am the resident assistant director at the Donmar Warehouse theatre, in > London's west-end. We are perhaps best known by our artistic director, > Oscar-winner Sam Mendes. > > We are currently in rehearsal for a production of Tennessee Williams' > classic play 'Orpheus Descending'. As you may know, the play is set in > Mississippi and contains a character who is part Choctaw. > > At two key points in the play, the character utters what the script calls > the 'Choctaw cry'. The stage directions go on to describe the cry as 'a > series of barking sounds that rise to a high sustained note of intensity'. > > >From our research into the Choctaw nation, we became immediately aware of > your complex and fascinating heritage. Both the director and I are anxious > that the 'Choctaw cry' that the script calls for, be as authentic as > possible. We assume that Tennessee Williams is describing an actual 'cry' > that he heard himself, most likely during his childhood in the South. > > Any help or guidance that you could give us would be greatly appreciated. > > I look forward to hearing from you. > > Regards > > Josie Rourke > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: > Send msg. to [email protected] > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > >

Hi Joise, I am part Choctaw Indian and I spent 20 years or better of my life as a child in the Choctaw Area of Oklahoma, Southeast. My ggrandmother is three-quarters Choctaw. I went to school in Tuskahoma Oklahoma. I am studying archaeology in college and I have a good collection of Choctaw music which may have some of these voices you are looking for. Also I have the Chief of the Choctaw Nations address, which I can send to you. Plus a few addresses to some Choctaw Magazines. Let me know if you are interested. I have many other things relating to the Choctaws that may be of interest to you. I have a friend in England down in Portsmouth, his name is Kevin Reinlander. He has a lowrider shop there. If you are interested in my material I will send it this week. Just let me know. Also I am interested in movies and the theatre, because of the works of Dmintri Merejowski, I am presently working on a book of his called "Akhnaton, King of Egypt" 1930's. I don't know whether to go movie, or theatre or go with the new computer animation while converting his books(200) to the mass media. Answer soon, patsy caleb tucson arizona. [email protected] 520-624-8250 patsy caleb ----- Original Message ----- From: Josie Rourke <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 12:52 PM Subject: [CHAHTA] London West-end Theatre - I need your advice > Donmar Warehouse, > London, > England. > > > Hello, > > I am the resident assistant director at the Donmar Warehouse theatre, in > London's west-end. We are perhaps best known by our artistic director, > Oscar-winner Sam Mendes. > > We are currently in rehearsal for a production of Tennessee Williams' > classic play 'Orpheus Descending'. As you may know, the play is set in > Mississippi and contains a character who is part Choctaw. > > At two key points in the play, the character utters what the script calls > the 'Choctaw cry'. The stage directions go on to describe the cry as 'a > series of barking sounds that rise to a high sustained note of intensity'. > > >From our research into the Choctaw nation, we became immediately aware of > your complex and fascinating heritage. Both the director and I are anxious > that the 'Choctaw cry' that the script calls for, be as authentic as > possible. We assume that Tennessee Williams is describing an actual 'cry' > that he heard himself, most likely during his childhood in the South. > > Any help or guidance that you could give us would be greatly appreciated. > > I look forward to hearing from you. > > Regards > > Josie Rourke > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: > Send msg. to [email protected] > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > >

Donmar Warehouse, London, England. Hello, I am the resident assistant director at the Donmar Warehouse theatre, in London's west-end. We are perhaps best known by our artistic director, Oscar-winner Sam Mendes. We are currently in rehearsal for a production of Tennessee Williams' classic play 'Orpheus Descending'. As you may know, the play is set in Mississippi and contains a character who is part Choctaw. At two key points in the play, the character utters what the script calls the 'Choctaw cry'. The stage directions go on to describe the cry as 'a series of barking sounds that rise to a high sustained note of intensity'. >From our research into the Choctaw nation, we became immediately aware of your complex and fascinating heritage. Both the director and I are anxious that the 'Choctaw cry' that the script calls for, be as authentic as possible. We assume that Tennessee Williams is describing an actual 'cry' that he heard himself, most likely during his childhood in the South. Any help or guidance that you could give us would be greatly appreciated. I look forward to hearing from you. Regards Josie Rourke ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

Hi Ellen, You are welcome. :) This is one thing I was hoping this list would be for.... talking about the different traditions concerning our Choctaw culture. I have been told that today in some ways, some of the different traditions have crossed boundries between tribes, especially in OK.... while other traditions are strictly held on to by each individual tribe. As we all know, there has been and will continue to be intermarriage between the different tribal folks, so things can't help but be practiced and shared by all. You know that old "love bug".. he never sees race, color, culture, or religion... he just bites!! <G> Markie At 01:20 PM 04/26/2000 -0500, you wrote: >Thanks Markie, > >Lucus Greywolf wrote and told me some of the problems that was associated >with owl feathers. I would have been dumb about them there feathers as I was >about the Chahta trim. I decided that if it must be ask to do so myself. > >Thanks >Ellen

Thanks Markie, Lucus Greywolf wrote and told me some of the problems that was associated with owl feathers. I would have been dumb about them there feathers as I was about the Chahta trim. I decided that if it must be ask to do so myself. Thanks Ellen ----- Original Message ----- From: Markie <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Owl feathers > Hey Ellen, > > Most, but not always all, Indian people believe that the owl is a messager > of bad news. At Pow Wow's and gatherings where there are people of all > tribes, you would never have owl feathers because of offending the ones who > do believe in this. My grandmother believed that if an owl landed in a > tree in your yard, it meant that someone in the family would die. I have > seen her run outside and throw sticks at one to run it off when I was a > little girl. My mother also believed this. > > I have a friend who is a fullblood Cherokee and he told me he was not > bothered by them, but told me what he did to a friend one time at a pow > wow. A lady came up to him and had a fan for sale, which had a beautiful > fully beaded handle, but had owl feathers in it. He told her he wasn't > interested but pointed out a friend setting across the circle from him and > told her to go ask him, he might want to buy it. So she walked around the > circle, started talking to the man, then showed him the fan. The man > jumped up, and fell over the chairs while trying to get away from the fan, > as my friend watched all of this, he was laughing his head off. Later, the > other man told him he saw him laughing, and while kidding, said he was > going to kill him! LOL Some, more than others, are deathly afraid of Owl > feathers. The Drum has been known to get up and leave the circle in the > presents of owl feathers. > > Even if someone doesn't believe this, it is out of respect for the ones who > do believe this, to never use owl feathers on any part of your regalia, or > anything you have, especially anytime you are going to any intertribal > types of events.... pow wows... gathering, etc. > > As all Indian People revere the Eagle as the bird to take our prayers to > God, then next is the Hawk, the Eagles little brother, the owl is the > messenger of bad news. > > So that's what I know about Owl feathers... does anyone else know other > things to add? > > Markie > > At 09:22 AM 04/25/2000 -0500, you wrote: > >Hey Girl, > > > >Those owl feathers needs explained not only to me but to the Chatha list. > >Why are owl feathers bad luck and so on. Yep? That went right over my head. > >Need to know do all Injuns feel that way? Give us a lesson girl! > > > >Ellen > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: > Send msg. to [email protected] > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > >

Hey Ellen, Most, but not always all, Indian people believe that the owl is a messager of bad news. At Pow Wow's and gatherings where there are people of all tribes, you would never have owl feathers because of offending the ones who do believe in this. My grandmother believed that if an owl landed in a tree in your yard, it meant that someone in the family would die. I have seen her run outside and throw sticks at one to run it off when I was a little girl. My mother also believed this. I have a friend who is a fullblood Cherokee and he told me he was not bothered by them, but told me what he did to a friend one time at a pow wow. A lady came up to him and had a fan for sale, which had a beautiful fully beaded handle, but had owl feathers in it. He told her he wasn't interested but pointed out a friend setting across the circle from him and told her to go ask him, he might want to buy it. So she walked around the circle, started talking to the man, then showed him the fan. The man jumped up, and fell over the chairs while trying to get away from the fan, as my friend watched all of this, he was laughing his head off. Later, the other man told him he saw him laughing, and while kidding, said he was going to kill him! LOL Some, more than others, are deathly afraid of Owl feathers. The Drum has been known to get up and leave the circle in the presents of owl feathers. Even if someone doesn't believe this, it is out of respect for the ones who do believe this, to never use owl feathers on any part of your regalia, or anything you have, especially anytime you are going to any intertribal types of events.... pow wows... gathering, etc. As all Indian People revere the Eagle as the bird to take our prayers to God, then next is the Hawk, the Eagles little brother, the owl is the messenger of bad news. So that's what I know about Owl feathers... does anyone else know other things to add? Markie At 09:22 AM 04/25/2000 -0500, you wrote: >Hey Girl, > >Those owl feathers needs explained not only to me but to the Chatha list. >Why are owl feathers bad luck and so on. Yep? That went right over my head. >Need to know do all Injuns feel that way? Give us a lesson girl! > >Ellen > >