Lucas, I agree with you. We need a lot more compassion for our sisters/brothers. I have great respect for you from your words of wisdom. Gwen

Graywolf You really have a way with words. That was all said so wonderful and very educational. Thank you Rita

Markie I thought that cult remark was funny! ----- Original Message ----- From: Markie <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Blood Quantum, or Card Carrying > Carol Jean, > > I didn't say it wasn't important. I was speaking for me personally. "I" > can not get a card from any federally recognized tribe. Just me, I'm not > speaking for anyone else except me. For me "personally", it would not > change my life in any way. If I needed any of the benifits, like the old > saying goes.. I'd be up the creek without a paddle! I can't change the > government, so why get upset about it? I wasn't around in 1840 when my > ancestors left MS. to come to Lousiana, and never went to Oklahoma. It's > not my fault!! BUT, I feel that anyone else who can "prove" their > descent from a Final Tribal roll "should" get a CDIB card, and hopefully > they will be an asset to their tribes. > > I thought we were on the subject of... you're an Indian if you have a card, > and you're not an Indian if you don't?? I got lost here in the shuffle > somewhere??? > > I am leaving a legacy for my children and grandchildren by teaching them > what I know, what I have learned from others. I have six grown children, > and 13 grandchildren. I have taken my grand children to ceremonies at the > crack of dawn so they will remember who they are. I tell them stories, I > teach them history and what their ancestors lived through, and the > struggles they had in their life time. I teach them to respect our Mother > Earth, and what She means to us as human beings. I teach them about > Prayer, and respect for our Elders, along with other things. To me this > "is" their legacy. Again, this is me personally, but I believe that one of > the greatest legacies we can leave our children or grand children are > memories. Memories that they will never forget... memories that will make > them proud of who they are and who their ancestors were. In turn they will > pass this down to their children, after I am gone, so our people will > continue to survive. Even tho I did have one daughter-in-law who though > I was in some sort of cult!! LOL > > Markie > > At 08:51 PM 05/24/2000 EDT, you wrote: > >I > >Dear Markie: > > > >I really don't understand you. Your children are members of the Osage > Nation > >and as such, have certain benefits. Obviously there are people who would > like > >the card to have the benefits that you say that you don't need, but if you > >did need couldn't get anyway. > > > >I would like to be connected to a "Federal Recognized Tribe" (I absolutely > >abhor that phrase, but it is the one that is necessary to use) to leave a > >legacy for my children and grandchildren. As a disabled, divorced, single > >parent of six (young adults, the youngest being 18), I would like them to > >have the advantages that my ancestors nor I could take part in. > > > >If having a CDIB card and blood quantum wasn't important, there wouldn't be > >so much ruckus about it. > > > >Carol Jean > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: > Send msg. to [email protected] > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > >

The us passport office takes entrys from bibles as proof needed. perhaps someone has a old bible withe your indian history recorde d in it. ----- Original Message ----- From: Marcia Lee <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 6:24 AM Subject: [CHAHTA] Blood quatum & baskets > Hi all, > Like some others unless theres a miracle or my stubborn persistent digging comes > up with the right info (u.s.government approved) in black & white none of my family will ever > get THE CARD. Okay, I can live with that. Like Markie, I think I have made my way without it > thus far. It would be the icing on the cake if I ever find what I need to get it, but it can't > change who my ancestors were & that fact that they have always told us we were > of Choctaw & Creek descent. I will always be sure to keep telling the same to my nephew > & nieces as my granny told to us. I will not let them forget where we come from as they > certainly will not learn it in their schools. Like Arla, I have my white ancestors too, & I > won't forget them either .... I mean look at the good hearts & sense the had to marry > into Choctaw & Creek families at the time when to do such wasn't always such a > good thing to do, especially in the South. But, all said I know because of my > Granny we have always felt not belonging & not quite in place in quote > "proper white society" when we were growing up in MS. Now that we are > grown and are finding out more about our Choctaw & Creek heritage we > understand why we feel the way we do about everyday things my family > did different & why we have such a love of the land even though we live > in the city. Lets not let who has or hasn't got the card decide who we > are inside & cause us to pick who we will have for our friends & family. > Now, I will get off my soapbox about that subject. > As for baskets ... Arla what kind do you make? My Granny made > pine needle baskets. Do you ever come to the Band of the Poach > Creek Indians pow wow near Atmore, AL. ? Or the Great Gulf Coast > Art Festival in Pensacola, FL? > Sorry I ran on, gotta get to work now. > Take care, Marcie > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: > Send msg. to [email protected] > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > >

In a message dated 5/25/00 9:56:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: << I know a lot of people in that tribe. My wife and I used to go to their pow wows every year but finally stopped when local business required so much of our time. We don't pow wow much any more and I really miss it. If you see the La Rouxs again or Tommy Bolton and his wife soon, please tell them Lucas and Debrale Graywolf said hi. Lucas >> Hi Lucas: I saw you mention the name Bolton. My greatgrandmother on my adoptive mother's side was Susan Bolton. Don't know where they came from, I think from around Virginia area. Carol Jean

Carol Jean: Markie subscribed me to this to get me off the Choctaw-Southeast-L (I guess she felt my opinions/questions were too contraversal!!). I was going to stay quiet here, but I agree with you in certain points. I am not a "wannabe" Indian, rather I am a "wannaknow" if I am. I am not interested in the benefits because I never knew of any for being Indian. I know nothing about being a "card carring" Indian. I am the Family "Historian" for my family. There are a few others in the family who are researching, but I seem to be the only active researcher. I have a second cousin who is married to a "Full Blood" name Jerry Lynn CHEE. Her sister, my father, my sister and myself all beleive/feel we have Indian ties. I have been chosen/appointed/volunteered to find the connection!! Thank you for letting me "spill my guts"!! At 08:51 PM 5/24/00 EDT, you wrote: >I >Dear Markie: > >I really don't understand you. Your children are members of the Osage Nation >and as such, have certain benefits. Obviously there are people who would like >the card to have the benefits that you say that you don't need, but if you >did need couldn't get anyway. > >I would like to be connected to a "Federal Recognized Tribe" (I absolutely >abhor that phrase, but it is the one that is necessary to use) to leave a >legacy for my children and grandchildren. As a disabled, divorced, single >parent of six (young adults, the youngest being 18), I would like them to >have the advantages that my ancestors nor I could take part in. > >If having a CDIB card and blood quantum wasn't important, there wouldn't be >so much ruckus about it. > >Carol Jean > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >To Unsubscribe: >Send msg. to [email protected] >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > Jim Morrison, Jr. [email protected] www2.coastalnet.com/~g7d3j4nb/

GOD IS RED by Vine Deloria, Jr. a Delta book, published by Dell publishing Co. Copyright 1973 Val wrote: > I Amazon.com'd for this book and can not bring it up. How did you order > that book. I want to read it. > Have you heard of 'God is Red'? > Val > ----------------------------------------------------- > Click here for Free Video!! > http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John & Arla Williams" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, May 24, 1980 9:11 PM > Subject: [CHAHTA] They Say The Wind Is Red > > > I received Jackie's book today and am looking forward to reading it.The > cover is beautiful.The pictures inside are wonderful. > > I'm going to start reading it tonight. > > The women on the back cover and their clothing is beautiful.I've got to > get my dress made before this fall. > > I'm open to suggestions on what patterns are the best to use. Arla > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.htm > > Choctaw Chat: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/chat.htm > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.htm > Choctaw Chat: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/chat.htm

I know a lot of people in that tribe. My wife and I used to go to their pow wows every year but finally stopped when local business required so much of our time. We don't pow wow much any more and I really miss it. If you see the La Rouxs again or Tommy Bolton and his wife soon, please tell them Lucas and Debrale Graywolf said hi. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Markie" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Blood Quantum, or Card Carrying > Hi Lucus, > > Yes, I have many friends there, but so far no family connections. My > ancestors settled in the sand hills of Bienville Parish. My parents > generations was the first ones to leave the woods I think. They came all > the way to Shreveport. > Which is probaby about 70 miles. <G> > > A lot of the Ebarb people say they are Caddo descent also. > > You know Doug and Patti La Roux? I saw them this last weekend. They are > also members of Twin Eagles Indian Assoication here in Shreveport. > > Thank you > Markie > > At 07:38 AM 05/25/2000 -0500, you wrote: > >Markie, are you familiar with the Ebarb, LA band of Choctaw-Apache. Maybe > >they have some family records for you. > > > >Lucas > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.htm > Choctaw Chat: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/chat.htm > >

Val, I have a book, God Is Red, by Vine Deloria, Jr. Fulcrum Publishing, Golden Colorado . It was a gift from a dear friend. would like to read They Say The Wind Is Red. Barbara

Well stated Linda! ----- Original Message ----- From: "mamalin" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Blood Quantum, or Card Carrying > Dear Mr. Graywolf, > I think that your message was wonderful!!!!! Thank you for that , and > the kind words you said. Each of us card or no card are family and we should > treat each other as such. There will be disagreements between each other , > as that is the way this world goes.I myself think it would be a dull world > if we all agreeded on the same thing. > The most important thing we should all remember we are all brothers and > sisters and have the same creator. Kindness gets us so much farther in life > than anything. So all remember to treat each other as we want others to > treat us.(DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU!!!!!!)Not do > unto others before they do unto you......<):-) > I have been reading some of the e-mails that have been comming thru and > I do understand that it is easy to take things wrong on the net because > facial expression can't be seen on here...when someone is teasing you and > they have a smile added to the sentence it is so much easier to see that it > is a tease. Just remember to think how that person's facial expression would > be if they were standing face to face to you and talking to you and a lot of > this tension would be gone. > I am Choctaw ,but as yet don't have my card, but that doesn't take any > of my Indian from me. I feel just as a part of the tribe and one day hope to > have myself and my children and grandchildren with a card. I do hope I > haven't offended anyone by anything I have said here. I just thought it was > time I added my statement in here instead of reading and not getting into > the chat. > I hope everyone has a wonderful day and each and everyone will > remember we are all family. United we stand divided we fall........!!!!!! > Always, Linda in Texas > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Graywolf" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 7:36 AM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Blood Quantum, or Card Carrying > > > > I have been watching all of the postings about "card carrying Indians" and > > am deeply concerened that some feelings have been hurt. > > > > I write occasional pieces for Bishinik, our tribal newspaper and > frequently > > get requests from people who are trying to get their cards. So many times > > it just isn't possible for one reason or another. Within my own family, > > because my father's people chose to leave the trail of tears and come to > > Texas (and thus were not signers of the Dawes Treaty) I have a brother who > > cannot get his tribal card; yet I have one because my mother's people were > > signers to the treaty. That doesn't make him any less Indian than I am. > > > > Nevertheless, as has been pointed out, the card system was necessary > because > > of every nut who came along claiming to be "heap big chief Indian" and > > wanted tribal benefits. And the new agers cashing in on Indian crafts and > > medicine have been an abomination to us all. I teach classes in > comparative > > religion ... specifically "Native American Spirituality and Catholic > > Christianity." And, although I am a registered member of the Choctaw > Nation > > of Oklahoma, I still get threatening phone calls and letters from other > > tribal members who think I am a "wannabe" Indian cashing in on the tribe. > > Those of you who do not have cards need to understand the history of the > > tribal registry program in order to understand the on-going animosity to > the > > wannabes. > > > > On the other hand, we card holders need to understand that the U.S. Army > > destroyed exactly one half of the tribal rolls of the Mississippi band > > because they didn't want to feed them. Also, not all Choctaws signed the > > Dawes Treaty. Hundreds asked permission to immigrate to Mexico instead. > > They were denied permission by the Mexican government and most of those > > families did not get on the Oklahoma rolls; but they are still very much > > Indians, some full-blooded. Add to that number the hundreds who > disappeared > > into the brush rather than be dragged off to Oklahoma, who settled in > > Louisiana, Texas and Arkansas. My father's father often said that any > > Indian who settled in Oklahoma was a "camp-around-the-fort-Indian" and > that > > the true 'braves' resisted resettlement to government lands. > > > > Somewhere in all this there needs to be a great deal of compassion for all > > sides. Those people without any hope of getting their cards may still > attend > > pow-wows and keep company with the rest of the Native Americans. I know a > > nahollo who has no Indian blood at all; but he was so kind and gentle that > > the Indians at the pow-wows took him in as one of their own and he was > > ultimately adopted by one of the spirit leaders of the Comanche Indian > > Nation. Ont he other hand, he NEVER attempted to benefit financially from > > this association in any way and he never told anyone he was an Indian. > > > > If you don't have the card yet, don't give up hope. Keep tracing your > > ancestry. Use the census records and don't forget that the Native > Americans > > were listed on different cards placed at the end of the local rolls so > they > > may not show up on the regular records. (Soundex should locate them, > > however.) And I would hope that we card holders can show some compassion > > here in dealing with the others. > > > > God's blessings. > > > > Lucas Graywolf > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > To Unsubscribe: > > Send msg. to [email protected] > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: > Send msg. to [email protected] > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > >

Dear Mr. Graywolf, I think that your message was wonderful!!!!! Thank you for that , and the kind words you said. Each of us card or no card are family and we should treat each other as such. There will be disagreements between each other , as that is the way this world goes.I myself think it would be a dull world if we all agreeded on the same thing. The most important thing we should all remember we are all brothers and sisters and have the same creator. Kindness gets us so much farther in life than anything. So all remember to treat each other as we want others to treat us.(DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU!!!!!!)Not do unto others before they do unto you......<):-) I have been reading some of the e-mails that have been comming thru and I do understand that it is easy to take things wrong on the net because facial expression can't be seen on here...when someone is teasing you and they have a smile added to the sentence it is so much easier to see that it is a tease. Just remember to think how that person's facial expression would be if they were standing face to face to you and talking to you and a lot of this tension would be gone. I am Choctaw ,but as yet don't have my card, but that doesn't take any of my Indian from me. I feel just as a part of the tribe and one day hope to have myself and my children and grandchildren with a card. I do hope I haven't offended anyone by anything I have said here. I just thought it was time I added my statement in here instead of reading and not getting into the chat. I hope everyone has a wonderful day and each and everyone will remember we are all family. United we stand divided we fall........!!!!!! Always, Linda in Texas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graywolf" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 7:36 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Blood Quantum, or Card Carrying > I have been watching all of the postings about "card carrying Indians" and > am deeply concerened that some feelings have been hurt. > > I write occasional pieces for Bishinik, our tribal newspaper and frequently > get requests from people who are trying to get their cards. So many times > it just isn't possible for one reason or another. Within my own family, > because my father's people chose to leave the trail of tears and come to > Texas (and thus were not signers of the Dawes Treaty) I have a brother who > cannot get his tribal card; yet I have one because my mother's people were > signers to the treaty. That doesn't make him any less Indian than I am. > > Nevertheless, as has been pointed out, the card system was necessary because > of every nut who came along claiming to be "heap big chief Indian" and > wanted tribal benefits. And the new agers cashing in on Indian crafts and > medicine have been an abomination to us all. I teach classes in comparative > religion ... specifically "Native American Spirituality and Catholic > Christianity." And, although I am a registered member of the Choctaw Nation > of Oklahoma, I still get threatening phone calls and letters from other > tribal members who think I am a "wannabe" Indian cashing in on the tribe. > Those of you who do not have cards need to understand the history of the > tribal registry program in order to understand the on-going animosity to the > wannabes. > > On the other hand, we card holders need to understand that the U.S. Army > destroyed exactly one half of the tribal rolls of the Mississippi band > because they didn't want to feed them. Also, not all Choctaws signed the > Dawes Treaty. Hundreds asked permission to immigrate to Mexico instead. > They were denied permission by the Mexican government and most of those > families did not get on the Oklahoma rolls; but they are still very much > Indians, some full-blooded. Add to that number the hundreds who disappeared > into the brush rather than be dragged off to Oklahoma, who settled in > Louisiana, Texas and Arkansas. My father's father often said that any > Indian who settled in Oklahoma was a "camp-around-the-fort-Indian" and that > the true 'braves' resisted resettlement to government lands. > > Somewhere in all this there needs to be a great deal of compassion for all > sides. Those people without any hope of getting their cards may still attend > pow-wows and keep company with the rest of the Native Americans. I know a > nahollo who has no Indian blood at all; but he was so kind and gentle that > the Indians at the pow-wows took him in as one of their own and he was > ultimately adopted by one of the spirit leaders of the Comanche Indian > Nation. Ont he other hand, he NEVER attempted to benefit financially from > this association in any way and he never told anyone he was an Indian. > > If you don't have the card yet, don't give up hope. Keep tracing your > ancestry. Use the census records and don't forget that the Native Americans > were listed on different cards placed at the end of the local rolls so they > may not show up on the regular records. (Soundex should locate them, > however.) And I would hope that we card holders can show some compassion > here in dealing with the others. > > God's blessings. > > Lucas Graywolf > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: > Send msg. to [email protected] > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

Hi Lucus, Yes, I have many friends there, but so far no family connections. My ancestors settled in the sand hills of Bienville Parish. My parents generations was the first ones to leave the woods I think. They came all the way to Shreveport. Which is probaby about 70 miles. <G> A lot of the Ebarb people say they are Caddo descent also. You know Doug and Patti La Roux? I saw them this last weekend. They are also members of Twin Eagles Indian Assoication here in Shreveport. Thank you Markie At 07:38 AM 05/25/2000 -0500, you wrote: >Markie, are you familiar with the Ebarb, LA band of Choctaw-Apache. Maybe >they have some family records for you. > >Lucas >

Hi Lucas, Well said! Thank you for putting things into order for all of us. I for one want to learn and can not asorb it fast enough. I made plenty of mistakes but that comes with learning. I have had a life time of being white and still make mistakes. Sometimes the mistakes I make is because I do not know enough about being Choctaw to know what to ask. I have to understand at least some of the basics before I can ask questions and get answers on any subject be it white or indian. Thanks again, Ellen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graywolf" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 7:36 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Blood Quantum, or Card Carrying > I have been watching all of the postings about "card carrying Indians" and > am deeply concerened that some feelings have been hurt. > > I write occasional pieces for Bishinik, our tribal newspaper and frequently > get requests from people who are trying to get their cards. So many times > it just isn't possible for one reason or another. Within my own family, > because my father's people chose to leave the trail of tears and come to > Texas (and thus were not signers of the Dawes Treaty) I have a brother who > cannot get his tribal card; yet I have one because my mother's people were > signers to the treaty. That doesn't make him any less Indian than I am. > > Nevertheless, as has been pointed out, the card system was necessary because > of every nut who came along claiming to be "heap big chief Indian" and > wanted tribal benefits. And the new agers cashing in on Indian crafts and > medicine have been an abomination to us all. I teach classes in comparative > religion ... specifically "Native American Spirituality and Catholic > Christianity." And, although I am a registered member of the Choctaw Nation > of Oklahoma, I still get threatening phone calls and letters from other > tribal members who think I am a "wannabe" Indian cashing in on the tribe. > Those of you who do not have cards need to understand the history of the > tribal registry program in order to understand the on-going animosity to the > wannabes. > > On the other hand, we card holders need to understand that the U.S. Army > destroyed exactly one half of the tribal rolls of the Mississippi band > because they didn't want to feed them. Also, not all Choctaws signed the > Dawes Treaty. Hundreds asked permission to immigrate to Mexico instead. > They were denied permission by the Mexican government and most of those > families did not get on the Oklahoma rolls; but they are still very much > Indians, some full-blooded. Add to that number the hundreds who disappeared > into the brush rather than be dragged off to Oklahoma, who settled in > Louisiana, Texas and Arkansas. My father's father often said that any > Indian who settled in Oklahoma was a "camp-around-the-fort-Indian" and that > the true 'braves' resisted resettlement to government lands. > > Somewhere in all this there needs to be a great deal of compassion for all > sides. Those people without any hope of getting their cards may still attend > pow-wows and keep company with the rest of the Native Americans. I know a > nahollo who has no Indian blood at all; but he was so kind and gentle that > the Indians at the pow-wows took him in as one of their own and he was > ultimately adopted by one of the spirit leaders of the Comanche Indian > Nation. Ont he other hand, he NEVER attempted to benefit financially from > this association in any way and he never told anyone he was an Indian. > > If you don't have the card yet, don't give up hope. Keep tracing your > ancestry. Use the census records and don't forget that the Native Americans > were listed on different cards placed at the end of the local rolls so they > may not show up on the regular records. (Soundex should locate them, > however.) And I would hope that we card holders can show some compassion > here in dealing with the others. > > God's blessings. > > Lucas Graywolf > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: > Send msg. to [email protected] > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > >

Hi all, Like some others unless theres a miracle or my stubborn persistent digging comes up with the right info (u.s.government approved) in black & white none of my family will ever get THE CARD. Okay, I can live with that. Like Markie, I think I have made my way without it thus far. It would be the icing on the cake if I ever find what I need to get it, but it can't change who my ancestors were & that fact that they have always told us we were of Choctaw & Creek descent. I will always be sure to keep telling the same to my nephew & nieces as my granny told to us. I will not let them forget where we come from as they certainly will not learn it in their schools. Like Arla, I have my white ancestors too, & I won't forget them either .... I mean look at the good hearts & sense the had to marry into Choctaw & Creek families at the time when to do such wasn't always such a good thing to do, especially in the South. But, all said I know because of my Granny we have always felt not belonging & not quite in place in quote "proper white society" when we were growing up in MS. Now that we are grown and are finding out more about our Choctaw & Creek heritage we understand why we feel the way we do about everyday things my family did different & why we have such a love of the land even though we live in the city. Lets not let who has or hasn't got the card decide who we are inside & cause us to pick who we will have for our friends & family. Now, I will get off my soapbox about that subject. As for baskets ... Arla what kind do you make? My Granny made pine needle baskets. Do you ever come to the Band of the Poach Creek Indians pow wow near Atmore, AL. ? Or the Great Gulf Coast Art Festival in Pensacola, FL? Sorry I ran on, gotta get to work now. Take care, Marcie

Thank you Lucus, I highly respect your opinion, and agree totally! Blessings to you, Markie At 07:36 AM 05/25/2000 -0500, you wrote: >I have been watching all of the postings about "card carrying Indians" and >am deeply concerened that some feelings have been hurt. > >I write occasional pieces for Bishinik, our tribal newspaper and frequently >get requests from people who are trying to get their cards. So many times >it just isn't possible for one reason or another. Within my own family, >because my father's people chose to leave the trail of tears and come to >Texas (and thus were not signers of the Dawes Treaty) I have a brother who >cannot get his tribal card; yet I have one because my mother's people were >signers to the treaty. That doesn't make him any less Indian than I am. > >Nevertheless, as has been pointed out, the card system was necessary because >of every nut who came along claiming to be "heap big chief Indian" and >wanted tribal benefits. And the new agers cashing in on Indian crafts and >medicine have been an abomination to us all. I teach classes in comparative >religion ... specifically "Native American Spirituality and Catholic >Christianity." And, although I am a registered member of the Choctaw Nation >of Oklahoma, I still get threatening phone calls and letters from other >tribal members who think I am a "wannabe" Indian cashing in on the tribe. >Those of you who do not have cards need to understand the history of the >tribal registry program in order to understand the on-going animosity to the >wannabes. > >On the other hand, we card holders need to understand that the U.S. Army >destroyed exactly one half of the tribal rolls of the Mississippi band >because they didn't want to feed them. Also, not all Choctaws signed the >Dawes Treaty. Hundreds asked permission to immigrate to Mexico instead. >They were denied permission by the Mexican government and most of those >families did not get on the Oklahoma rolls; but they are still very much >Indians, some full-blooded. Add to that number the hundreds who disappeared >into the brush rather than be dragged off to Oklahoma, who settled in >Louisiana, Texas and Arkansas. My father's father often said that any >Indian who settled in Oklahoma was a "camp-around-the-fort-Indian" and that >the true 'braves' resisted resettlement to government lands. > >Somewhere in all this there needs to be a great deal of compassion for all >sides. Those people without any hope of getting their cards may still attend >pow-wows and keep company with the rest of the Native Americans. I know a >nahollo who has no Indian blood at all; but he was so kind and gentle that >the Indians at the pow-wows took him in as one of their own and he was >ultimately adopted by one of the spirit leaders of the Comanche Indian >Nation. Ont he other hand, he NEVER attempted to benefit financially from >this association in any way and he never told anyone he was an Indian. > >If you don't have the card yet, don't give up hope. Keep tracing your >ancestry. Use the census records and don't forget that the Native Americans >were listed on different cards placed at the end of the local rolls so they >may not show up on the regular records. (Soundex should locate them, >however.) And I would hope that we card holders can show some compassion >here in dealing with the others. > >God's blessings. > >Lucas Graywolf >

I Amazon.com'd for this book and can not bring it up. How did you order that book. I want to read it. Have you heard of 'God is Red'? Val ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "John & Arla Williams" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, May 24, 1980 9:11 PM Subject: [CHAHTA] They Say The Wind Is Red > I received Jackie's book today and am looking forward to reading it.The cover is beautiful.The pictures inside are wonderful. > I'm going to start reading it tonight. > The women on the back cover and their clothing is beautiful.I've got to get my dress made before this fall. > I'm open to suggestions on what patterns are the best to use. Arla > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.htm > Choctaw Chat: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/chat.htm >

Hi Jim, You are welcome to ask any questions you want to here on the Chahta List. I'll do the very best that "I" can, to give you any answers that I know. Please don't feel like an outsider. I came home from the weekend to a mail box that was over flowing with people screaming at me! I had to move this conversation to this list, and get it off of the Choctaw Southeast list. When I started that list, I gave my word to the subscribers to do my best to keep it strictly on the subject of genealogy research. The reason I started "this list" is so everyone could talk and ask any questions or debate to their hearts content without disturbing the genealogy folks who do not care to read other topics. All I ask here on this list is that no one flame anyone else. Debating a subject is fine as long as we are learning together, and not getting mad at each other. In the middle of all that, I missed some of your questions. Would you mind asking again? :) Thank you Markie At 05:23 AM 05/25/2000 -0400, you wrote: >I don't see how this has gotten so out of control. I am trying to research >my family tree. In doing so, I was trying to find if there was any Indian >blood in our line. > >You folks who say you are of Indian blood have made me feel like a complete >outsider. I have asked a few questions for which I have been threaten with >being banned from this list and been fussed at for asking!! Why? Because >those who answered me are not in agreement and that starts a debate. > >I was not born with all the answers, so I must ask questions!! >

Contact Doug or Patti La Roux in Zwolle, LA for their pow-wow dates. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 6:56 PM Subject: [CHAHTA] Re: CHAHTA-D Digest V00 #49 > Hi. Does anyone have pow wow dates for Mississippi? I want to visit > soon. Thanks in advance. > ===== > Robin > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: > Send msg. to [email protected] > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > >

Markie, are you familiar with the Ebarb, LA band of Choctaw-Apache. Maybe they have some family records for you. Lucas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Markie" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Blood Quantum, or Card Carrying > Carol Jean, > > I am not eligible according to the US Gov. to ever get a card. My > ancestors came to Louisiana from MS. in 1840. They were not on any rolls > anywhere that I have found. If they were, it was with Choctaw & Cherokee > names, which I don't know at this time. Which doesn't matter anyway, as > they did not live with any of the tribes at the time of the final rolls. > > Now, let's "play like" I could get a card. Ok, I have it... now, why > would I need one? I don't need any of the medical advantagtes, I have my > own medical insurance. I don't want to drive five hours to Broken Bow to > the nearest Clinic when I can see my Doctor here at home. I don't want to > live in Oklahoma, so I don't need the housing. Education? Well, I'm 54 > and don't plan on going to college at this late date. My children are > registered members of the Osage Nation of Oklahoma, but when one of my > daughters applied for college money, she turned it down, because she didn't > want to go to the colleges that they said she had to go to. She wanted to > go here in Louisiana. So I didn't use the education money. Maybe someone > needs to tell me the advantages of having a card that I don't know about???? > > The point I'm trying to make is the fact that having a CDIB card will not > change one single thing in my life one way or the other. I would not trade > my parents for any other, or grandparents, or ancestors. I am who I am! > Nothing will, or can, change that fact. I have never worried over if I > could get a card or not get a card. I am accepted in the Indian community > as Indian, because of who I am, not because of the card in my purse. > > >Maybe your full-blood and and other friends respect you but in the final > >analysis, if you are asked for some reason to back up your statement that > you > >are Indian, you will be in the proverbial pickle. > > Why on earth would I ever be asked to prove I am Indian? Who would care? > No one that I know. I don't think I will ever go anyplace that I haven't > already been, and no one has ever asked me to prove I am an Indian so far > in my life! I don't feel the "need" to prove it to anybody. Simple....I > know who I am! Wheither someone believes it or not doesn't matter to me, > that's their problem, not mine. > > >What bothers me about your > >post is that you say you can spot someone who has "seen a lot of movies." > >I'm not sure just what that means. > > >but when I hear people who describe themselves as Indians and call > >others (who admittedly may be a might overzealous) "new agers" or > "wannabees" > >because they don't have all of the right friends and aren't as knowledgable > >about Native ways, it becomes a bitter pill to swallow. > > We are talking here, I guess, about a whole different topic. There are > people who you will find at Pow Wows and gatherings of Indian people that > "act" like they came from a movie, shall we say. They talk the "medicine > man" talk. They think they know so much already, they are never open to > learning the real ways, as they are to busy acting out what they read in a > book or saw in a movie. They will talk endlessly about all the "Indian > medicine ways" they know. That's why they are so easy to spot, they never > shut their mouth! Some of the things they do, or say, is disrespectful to > the traditions of Indian people. You get respect, when you show respect. > You never walk up to a full blood elder of his tribe and start telling him > all about his own tribe. I have seen this happen. You listen to HIM tell > YOU about his tribe, out of respect for who he is. That's how a person > learns. You listen to the ones who know. You respect where you are, who > you are around, and what is going on. I don't know what else to say, It's > just that simple. > > Markie > > At 05:15 PM 05/24/2000 EDT, you wrote: > >Markie, do you not want a CDIB card? If you don't, that is perfectly all > >right. I think that people can and should become active in active in a > >tribal community if they live in close proximity. What bothers me about > your > >post is that you say you can spot someone who has "seen a lot of movies." > >I'm not sure just what that means. > > > >For one who has seen lots of movies, you may remember a movie called, > >"Exodus." > >In it Peter Lawford, portraying a British officer, is talking to Paul > Newman, > >impersonating a British officer. Lawford tells News that he can "spot a Jew > >a mile away." Newman is chuckling to himself, for the statement he has just > >heard. > > > >Maybe your full-blood and and other friends respect you but in the final > >analysis, if you are asked for some reason to back up your statement that > you > >are Indian, you will be in the proverbial pickle. > > > >By the way, I belong to a state-recognized tribe in West Virginia > (Applachian > >American Indians of West Virginia). I am not federally recognized yet, but > >working on it. Does that mean I will look down on others for not wanting or > >having their cards? Not one bit. What another wants to do is their > >business, but when I hear people who describe themselves as Indians and call > >others (who admittedly may be a might overzealous) "new agers" or > "wannabees" > >because they don't have all of the right friends and aren't as knowledgable > >about Native ways, it becomes a bitter pill to swallow. > > > >Carol Jean > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: > Send msg. to [email protected] > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > >

I have been watching all of the postings about "card carrying Indians" and am deeply concerened that some feelings have been hurt. I write occasional pieces for Bishinik, our tribal newspaper and frequently get requests from people who are trying to get their cards. So many times it just isn't possible for one reason or another. Within my own family, because my father's people chose to leave the trail of tears and come to Texas (and thus were not signers of the Dawes Treaty) I have a brother who cannot get his tribal card; yet I have one because my mother's people were signers to the treaty. That doesn't make him any less Indian than I am. Nevertheless, as has been pointed out, the card system was necessary because of every nut who came along claiming to be "heap big chief Indian" and wanted tribal benefits. And the new agers cashing in on Indian crafts and medicine have been an abomination to us all. I teach classes in comparative religion ... specifically "Native American Spirituality and Catholic Christianity." And, although I am a registered member of the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma, I still get threatening phone calls and letters from other tribal members who think I am a "wannabe" Indian cashing in on the tribe. Those of you who do not have cards need to understand the history of the tribal registry program in order to understand the on-going animosity to the wannabes. On the other hand, we card holders need to understand that the U.S. Army destroyed exactly one half of the tribal rolls of the Mississippi band because they didn't want to feed them. Also, not all Choctaws signed the Dawes Treaty. Hundreds asked permission to immigrate to Mexico instead. They were denied permission by the Mexican government and most of those families did not get on the Oklahoma rolls; but they are still very much Indians, some full-blooded. Add to that number the hundreds who disappeared into the brush rather than be dragged off to Oklahoma, who settled in Louisiana, Texas and Arkansas. My father's father often said that any Indian who settled in Oklahoma was a "camp-around-the-fort-Indian" and that the true 'braves' resisted resettlement to government lands. Somewhere in all this there needs to be a great deal of compassion for all sides. Those people without any hope of getting their cards may still attend pow-wows and keep company with the rest of the Native Americans. I know a nahollo who has no Indian blood at all; but he was so kind and gentle that the Indians at the pow-wows took him in as one of their own and he was ultimately adopted by one of the spirit leaders of the Comanche Indian Nation. Ont he other hand, he NEVER attempted to benefit financially from this association in any way and he never told anyone he was an Indian. If you don't have the card yet, don't give up hope. Keep tracing your ancestry. Use the census records and don't forget that the Native Americans were listed on different cards placed at the end of the local rolls so they may not show up on the regular records. (Soundex should locate them, however.) And I would hope that we card holders can show some compassion here in dealing with the others. God's blessings. Lucas Graywolf