Ok, I'm trying this again... I'm on Yahoo now!! LOL I didn't get Jim's msg. below, using Hotmail "or" my Bellsouth server! But I did get it on Yahoo?? I now have three address subbed to both lists, so I can tell what is coming through, and what is not. I did get Gail's msg. below at Bellsouth, but not Hotmail, or Yahoo, so some of the messages are coming through I guess. I didn't get my own message from Hotmail to the list at either Bellsouth or Hotmail. So something is definately wrong somewhere. Evidently the message I sent from hotmail, went to the list, as that is what Gail answered. LOL I don't know, I'm all messed up!!!!! Ok.. I'm using three addresses right now, so maybe I will get to keep up with what is happening one way or the other!! haha Markie ... back later... >Markie, >It must be your BellSouth connection because I am on >a different service, >and I have been receiving all of my mail from all of >the lists I am >subscribed to. I think I heard something on the news >about the problem but >can't remember what exactly it said the problem was. >gail --- "Jim Morrison, Jr." <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Kim > > Most of my conversations have been taken to private > e-mail rather than on > the list, but you are still hooked up!! > > > > At 12:05 PM 6/14/00 -0500, you wrote: > >I haven't been getting any e-mails, wondering if I > am having server problem > >or is the list having problems? > > > > > >Kim Davis __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com

Hi Barbie, I gave you the wrong email address. Sorry! [email protected] Bet you can get it this time. My brain must have been fried and I did not pick up on this mistake. Thanks Ellen ----- Original Message ----- From: The Peddicords <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 7:49 AM Subject: [CHAHTA] Fwd: Shawl > Tried to send this but it came back to me. Barbie > > >Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 05:29:53 -0700 > >To: [email protected] > >From: The Peddicords <[email protected]> > >Subject: Shawl > > > >I will see if I can get a picture made, but do not have any of that type > >of fan. Barbie > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L: > Send msg. to [email protected] > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > >

Tried to send this but it came back to me. Barbie >Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 05:29:53 -0700 >To: [email protected] >From: The Peddicords <[email protected]> >Subject: Shawl > >I will see if I can get a picture made, but do not have any of that type >of fan. Barbie

Hi Barbie, I am interested in a picture of the crocheted shawl and of the bone tailed fan. Email me privately and tell me if you can sent photos by email or snail mail. Ellen Scott [email protected] ----- Original Message ----- From: The Peddicords <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 8:05 AM Subject: [CHAHTA] Dance Fan > Do remember the old cane fans the older folks carried and the triangluar > shaws they wore. My Grannie had at least four or five cane fans and I > remember her Sunday go to meeting shaw being bright yellow with long > fringe, she had crochet it out of hand card spun thread into what she > called a spider web pattern. I don't have the fans but do have the shaw > still. (my sister has some of the fans). Hope I am not boring anyone with > old memories. Funny haven't thought of those things in years. Barbie > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To Unsubscribe: > Send msg. to [email protected] > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > >

Do remember the old cane fans the older folks carried and the triangluar shaws they wore. My Grannie had at least four or five cane fans and I remember her Sunday go to meeting shaw being bright yellow with long fringe, she had crochet it out of hand card spun thread into what she called a spider web pattern. I don't have the fans but do have the shaw still. (my sister has some of the fans). Hope I am not boring anyone with old memories. Funny haven't thought of those things in years. Barbie

I was not aware of the thing about only the head lady having a fan. But then unfortunately I was not raised around my Choctaw people. Have only been trying to catch up on the things I missed for the last few years. I think the difference comes if you are talking about a dance held in the specific old Choctaw way or if you are talking powwow. For the most part powwows are intertribal and have certain 'standard' codes that you can adjust slightly to show your personal heritage. Like the ladies wearing a dress that reflects their tribe but also carrying the shawl that enhances the steps of the dance with its sway and the fan for show as well as comfort. Cathy ----- Original Message ----- From: Val <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 11:16 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Dance Fans > I have to agree. > I love it all. I feel that we always enjoyed fashion, the Choctaw were > great traders. > A fan is necessary for me. I get so hot dancing I need to fan myself. I > think we always adjusted to what we liked. The fan in the old days more > than likely did give the head woman dancer some special place that paricular > dance night, eh? > Val > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Graywolf" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 7:49 AM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Dance Fans > > > > Barbie is right about the fans. But for the past 30 years so many tribal > > members are traveling to pow-wows that we have started to intermingle our > > regalia. The only thing that still sets us apart is the cotton "Southern" > > women's dresses with the yoke. In one of my articles for Bishinik I > > commented that much of our ery early clothing styles were exactly the same > > as the plains tribes. Early paintings of our people show the men wearing > > only loin clothes and skins shirts and the women wearing skin dresses. But > > the Southern cotton granny dress changed much of that for our women. > > > > Nevertheless, as our young people travel around the country to pow-wows > the > > clothing all starts to look the same for ALL tribes again and as our > > children intermarry with men and women from other tribes, we are slowly > > adding real meaning to the expression, "blood brothers." > > > > Lucas Graywolf > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "The Peddicords" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 9:27 AM > > Subject: [CHAHTA] Dance Fans > > > > > > > I was under the impression that dance fans were a plains nations thingy > > for > > > everyone and that in the SE nations only persons of importance used them > > > like a alikchi. Do not as a younger remember seeing them carried by > women. > > > But then in fifty years things do change. Barbie > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Choctaw Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.htm > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L: > Send msg. to [email protected] > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

Does anyone have information about the Cloud family in Louisiana, St. Landry and Allen Parishes? If so please write to me at address below. Thanks. Susan G. Russell [email protected]

The powwows around here (LeFlore County, Oklahoma)are intertribal...the traditional Choctaw dancing is a whole different thing. Choctaws have only recently begun to participate more in the powwows, and the main dance is the gourd dance around here.Our powwows are generally very small, which I personally like.The last big powwow I went to was in Austin, Tx and that was intertribal.They had all the dances, competitions, etc.There were very few Choctaws in attendance, and fewer dancing. B. -- On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 13:09:33 cctraders wrote: >I was not aware of the thing about only the head lady having a fan. But >then unfortunately I was not raised around my Choctaw people. Have only been >trying to catch up on the things I missed for the last few years. I think >the difference comes if you are talking about a dance held in the specific >old Choctaw way or if you are talking powwow. For the most part powwows are >intertribal and have certain 'standard' codes that you can adjust slightly >to show your personal heritage. Like the ladies wearing a dress that >reflects their tribe but also carrying the shawl that enhances the steps of >the dance with its sway and the fan for show as well as comfort. >Cathy >----- Original Message ----- >From: Val <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 11:16 AM >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Dance Fans > > >> I have to agree. >> I love it all. I feel that we always enjoyed fashion, the Choctaw were >> great traders. >> A fan is necessary for me. I get so hot dancing I need to fan myself. I >> think we always adjusted to what we liked. The fan in the old days more >> than likely did give the head woman dancer some special place that >paricular >> dance night, eh? >> Val >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Graywolf" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 7:49 AM >> Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Dance Fans >> >> >> > Barbie is right about the fans. But for the past 30 years so many >tribal >> > members are traveling to pow-wows that we have started to intermingle >our >> > regalia. The only thing that still sets us apart is the cotton >"Southern" >> > women's dresses with the yoke. In one of my articles for Bishinik I >> > commented that much of our ery early clothing styles were exactly the >same >> > as the plains tribes. Early paintings of our people show the men wearing >> > only loin clothes and skins shirts and the women wearing skin dresses. >But >> > the Southern cotton granny dress changed much of that for our women. >> > >> > Nevertheless, as our young people travel around the country to pow-wows >> the >> > clothing all starts to look the same for ALL tribes again and as our >> > children intermarry with men and women from other tribes, we are slowly >> > adding real meaning to the expression, "blood brothers." >> > >> > Lucas Graywolf >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "The Peddicords" <[email protected]> >> > To: <[email protected]> >> > Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 9:27 AM >> > Subject: [CHAHTA] Dance Fans >> > >> > >> > > I was under the impression that dance fans were a plains nations >thingy >> > for >> > > everyone and that in the SE nations only persons of importance used >them >> > > like a alikchi. Do not as a younger remember seeing them carried by >> women. >> > > But then in fifty years things do change. Barbie >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >> > > Choctaw Home Page: >> > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.htm >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >> > Choctaw Home Page: >> > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.htm >> > >> >> >> ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >> To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L: >> Send msg. to [email protected] >> Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes >> Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >> > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >Choctaw Home Page: >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.htm > > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com

Barbie is right about the fans. But for the past 30 years so many tribal members are traveling to pow-wows that we have started to intermingle our regalia. The only thing that still sets us apart is the cotton "Southern" women's dresses with the yoke. In one of my articles for Bishinik I commented that much of our ery early clothing styles were exactly the same as the plains tribes. Early paintings of our people show the men wearing only loin clothes and skins shirts and the women wearing skin dresses. But the Southern cotton granny dress changed much of that for our women. Nevertheless, as our young people travel around the country to pow-wows the clothing all starts to look the same for ALL tribes again and as our children intermarry with men and women from other tribes, we are slowly adding real meaning to the expression, "blood brothers." Lucas Graywolf ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Peddicords" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 9:27 AM Subject: [CHAHTA] Dance Fans > I was under the impression that dance fans were a plains nations thingy for > everyone and that in the SE nations only persons of importance used them > like a alikchi. Do not as a younger remember seeing them carried by women. > But then in fifty years things do change. Barbie > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Choctaw Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.htm > >

I have to agree. I love it all. I feel that we always enjoyed fashion, the Choctaw were great traders. A fan is necessary for me. I get so hot dancing I need to fan myself. I think we always adjusted to what we liked. The fan in the old days more than likely did give the head woman dancer some special place that paricular dance night, eh? Val ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graywolf" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 7:49 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Dance Fans > Barbie is right about the fans. But for the past 30 years so many tribal > members are traveling to pow-wows that we have started to intermingle our > regalia. The only thing that still sets us apart is the cotton "Southern" > women's dresses with the yoke. In one of my articles for Bishinik I > commented that much of our ery early clothing styles were exactly the same > as the plains tribes. Early paintings of our people show the men wearing > only loin clothes and skins shirts and the women wearing skin dresses. But > the Southern cotton granny dress changed much of that for our women. > > Nevertheless, as our young people travel around the country to pow-wows the > clothing all starts to look the same for ALL tribes again and as our > children intermarry with men and women from other tribes, we are slowly > adding real meaning to the expression, "blood brothers." > > Lucas Graywolf > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "The Peddicords" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 9:27 AM > Subject: [CHAHTA] Dance Fans > > > > I was under the impression that dance fans were a plains nations thingy > for > > everyone and that in the SE nations only persons of importance used them > > like a alikchi. Do not as a younger remember seeing them carried by women. > > But then in fifty years things do change. Barbie > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Choctaw Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.htm > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Choctaw Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.htm >

Well..maybe the folks around here are sticking closer to the older ways, cause I have not seen fans in women's hands at the powwows around here, except for the head lady dancer. I want a fan just to have one myself..I won't be dancing any more anyway..As for the clothing styles, I'm sure we started out using whatever we had handy to cover ourselves, and as we saw other things we liked better, we took them on, just like anyone else would.Personally, I like the tradition of Levis and t-shirts. Barbara (Greybird 7) -- On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 09:49:55 Graywolf wrote: >Barbie is right about the fans. But for the past 30 years so many tribal >members are traveling to pow-wows that we have started to intermingle our >regalia. The only thing that still sets us apart is the cotton "Southern" >women's dresses with the yoke. In one of my articles for Bishinik I >commented that much of our ery early clothing styles were exactly the same >as the plains tribes. Early paintings of our people show the men wearing >only loin clothes and skins shirts and the women wearing skin dresses. But >the Southern cotton granny dress changed much of that for our women. > >Nevertheless, as our young people travel around the country to pow-wows the >clothing all starts to look the same for ALL tribes again and as our >children intermarry with men and women from other tribes, we are slowly >adding real meaning to the expression, "blood brothers." > >Lucas Graywolf > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "The Peddicords" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 9:27 AM >Subject: [CHAHTA] Dance Fans > > >> I was under the impression that dance fans were a plains nations thingy >for >> everyone and that in the SE nations only persons of importance used them >> like a alikchi. Do not as a younger remember seeing them carried by women. >> But then in fifty years things do change. Barbie >> >> >> >> ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >> Choctaw Home Page: >> http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.htm >> >> > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >Choctaw Home Page: >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.htm > > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com

I was under the impression that dance fans were a plains nations thingy for everyone and that in the SE nations only persons of importance used them like a alikchi. Do not as a younger remember seeing them carried by women. But then in fifty years things do change. Barbie

Pooooh I dont know who told you that but I believe that is incorrect, I have danced at many powwows all over the USA and If you want a fan you can have a fan. Sorry when I see this kind of stuff being said then I know someone is being horn swaggled if there is a tribe that only allows one fan I dont know of it. Dont mean I am right \\just I just never heard of it. Nancy Blue

I was wondering if there was anybody else here that was working on WILLIAMS, STORY, BROOKS or SHEPPARD from Harris County, GA, Elmore County, AL, Chamber County, AL or San Saba, TX? Jim Jim Morrison, Jr. [email protected] www2.coastalnet.com/~g7d3j4nb/

I don't know...I just not have seen any other women but the head lady dancers using them at the gourd dances..which may be different than at other dances...and so I asked, and that's what I was told.... Markie...I am suddenly getting two sets of emails from this list.How did I accomplish that? Barbara -- On Sun, 11 Jun 2000 10:42:29 Val wrote: >Everybody gets to have a fan! >Why would someone tell you that? >Val >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Markie" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 10:11 AM >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Re: Choctaw Dance Fan > > >> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 09:26:58 -0700 >> To: [email protected] >> From: "Barbara Ellison" <[email protected]> >> >> I'm just jumping in here cause it's the first chance I have had to respond >> to this list..just got my home computer back 3 days ago....anyway..about >> the dance fan...I was told at the powwow in Poteau last year that among >the >> women, only the head lady dancer uses the fan...I don't know if that was >> correct..just passing along what I was told when I asked...And I will be >> interested to know how to make a fan too. >> Barbara >> >> >> >On Sun, 11 Jun 2000 12:02:28 GHerna1154 wrote: >> >>I would like the instructions for the fan. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Gwen >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >> Choctaw Home Page: >> http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.htm >> > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >To Unsubscribe: >Send msg. to [email protected] >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com

In today's world, each traditional dancer gets a fan *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 6/11/00 at 10:42 AM Val wrote: >Everybody gets to have a fan! >Why would someone tell you that? >Val >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Markie" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 10:11 AM >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Re: Choctaw Dance Fan > > >> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 09:26:58 -0700 >> To: [email protected] >> From: "Barbara Ellison" <[email protected]> >> >> I'm just jumping in here cause it's the first chance I have had to respond >> to this list..just got my home computer back 3 days ago....anyway..about >> the dance fan...I was told at the powwow in Poteau last year that among >the >> women, only the head lady dancer uses the fan...I don't know if that was >> correct..just passing along what I was told when I asked...And I will be >> interested to know how to make a fan too. >> Barbara >> >> >> >On Sun, 11 Jun 2000 12:02:28 GHerna1154 wrote: >> >>I would like the instructions for the fan. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Gwen >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >> Choctaw Home Page: >> http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.htm >> > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >To Unsubscribe: >Send msg. to [email protected] >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures.......

Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 09:26:58 -0700 To: [email protected] From: "Barbara Ellison" <[email protected]> I'm just jumping in here cause it's the first chance I have had to respond to this list..just got my home computer back 3 days ago....anyway..about the dance fan...I was told at the powwow in Poteau last year that among the women, only the head lady dancer uses the fan...I don't know if that was correct..just passing along what I was told when I asked...And I will be interested to know how to make a fan too. Barbara >On Sun, 11 Jun 2000 12:02:28 GHerna1154 wrote: >>I would like the instructions for the fan. >>Thanks, >>Gwen >> >>

I would like the instructions for the fan. Thanks, Gwen

Everybody gets to have a fan! Why would someone tell you that? Val ----- Original Message ----- From: "Markie" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Re: Choctaw Dance Fan > Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 09:26:58 -0700 > To: [email protected] > From: "Barbara Ellison" <[email protected]> > > I'm just jumping in here cause it's the first chance I have had to respond > to this list..just got my home computer back 3 days ago....anyway..about > the dance fan...I was told at the powwow in Poteau last year that among the > women, only the head lady dancer uses the fan...I don't know if that was > correct..just passing along what I was told when I asked...And I will be > interested to know how to make a fan too. > Barbara > > > >On Sun, 11 Jun 2000 12:02:28 GHerna1154 wrote: > >>I would like the instructions for the fan. > >>Thanks, > >>Gwen > >> > >> > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Choctaw Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/index.htm >

So glad that your son and daughter are doing OK. Continued prayers for you and yours. Barbara