Well, Dusty, how much time do I have to give it? I've had one now for over 10 years! Several doctors have tried several things to remove it (chemicals, cutting out, freezing it) and it always comes back. It never gets any bigger or smaller, just is always there. They've diagnosed it as a wart. I don't know - I think I'll try to auction it to the highest bidder! LOL! Take care ya'll - I'm going to sell my wart! Not making fun - I'm serious! Tsana ----- Original Message ----- From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 3:08 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Re: buying warts > My Choctaw grandmother used to do something with a knife and a telephone > pole (don't laugh, I'm serious!) for warts. I can't remember what the > exact ritual was. It had something to do with the creosote that telephone > poles are soaked in, and of course it ALWAYS worked. And I remember she > used to tell me that you had to BELIEVE it would work for it to work. > > I now know the reason it always worked is because warts are caused by > viruses, and are temporary lesions. They will always go away if given > enought time. > > dusty > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Choctaw <choctaw@bscn.com> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 2:29 AM > Subject: [CHAHTA] Re: buying warts > > > > Tsana, > > When I was about 7 or 8 yr old, I had a wart come up on my hand. My > > Granny, gave me a penny (I think it was a penny, might have been a dime) > to > > buy it from me. She laid the coin on my wart and then handed it to me and > > told me I had to spend it, which I promptly did, for probably some gum or > > something. The wart went away and I have a little scar where it used to > be, > > to this day. > > A couple of years ago, my son had a wart come up on his head, just > > behind his hairline. I bought it from him, and then after a couple of > days > > I asked him how MY wart was, I looked at it and it was smaller. In less > > than two weeks the wart was gone. > > My husband had a place on his collarbone for a couple of years, it > > looked like a cross between a wart and a mole but almost as big around as > a > > quarter. He asked the doctor about it and they did a biopsy, and told him > it > > was nothing to worry about, just keep an eye on it. So, I bought it from > > him about 6 mo. or so ago. A couple of months ago, he was shaving without > a > > shirt on and noticed in the mirror that it was gone and yelled for me to > > come look. He said, "look at this", and I said "look at what?" and he > > smiled and said "exactly, YOUR wart is gone" > > My daughter has a wart on her knee that I've bought twice that refuses > > to go away. I'm not sure if it's because she doesn't think it will or > what, > > I guess I have to convince her it's mine and she can't have it anymore. I > > haven't checked lately, but I'll check tomorrow and see if she still has > it. > > I just wondered if this was something that my Granny taught me that > > might be Chahta in origin. I'll ask her when I get the chance, although > I'm > > sure she'll say "I don't know where I learned it, it just works" LOL > > Shelley > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Choctaw Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

The Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma accepts all who can trace their lineage to an original enrollee ( and who have a CDIB) of the Choctaw roll regardless of blood quantum. I personally prefer American Indian as any one born in the US is NA. Don't profess to know what the Choctaw nation of OK thinks about the term though. Yes the Choctaw have had dealings and inter marriages with Europeans for many years. Many great chiefs were of mixed blood. I do believe that MS Choctaw have a more stringent requirement for tribal membership but I am not sure. Perhaps there is some one on the list who can supply you a better answer. Kim ----- Original Message ----- From: <Chata1507@aol.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 9:46 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > I have been told that the Choctaw Nation prefers the term Indian over native > American since anyone born in America is also a native American. This makes > sense to me. However, each nation has their own opinion. In addition I > think it's what ever you are comfortable with. > > On a previous question. In Minnesota the tribes historically accepted > persons into tribe who basically moved in with them, became community > supporters and identified with the tribe and its goals. This included > captives who were adopted. Friends on various reservations in Minnesota also > chuckle at the concept of full blood because over the years of euro contact > who can really know blood genetics. For example Crazy Horse was light haired > and blue eyed according to a Lakota friend. The Mandans have many with light > eyes and hair. > > Look at the pictures of a lot of the old Choctaw and you see euro influence. > The Choctaw have had contact since they ran De Soto out in the early 1500s. > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > >

Dusty, Can you order a packet over the phone and pay with a credit card? I have a name, age, census number, and roll number. Is there any more info. on what you have? Fay Don't ever give up.!!!! http://www.accessgenealogy.com/gedcoms/ratcliff/ List owner HOLDEN-L, SCHIFANO-L

Pretty soon, you won't be able to call me a twinkie, you'll have to call me Heinz 57. Looks like, Choctaw, Cherokee and Creek. Lord have mercy. Fay ----- Original Message ----- From: Elkdreamer Wilkins <elkdremr@hotmail.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 11:14 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > Halito Barbara > Our Spirituality is part of our being. just sometimes we need to be > exposed to it for it to become full bloomsd. > Walk in Beauty > Elkdreamer > > > >From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 12:49:41 -0500 > > > >"Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we went to > >class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in us > >(which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a white > >society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, but > >they > >cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to put > >themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at best > >futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > >B. > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to everyone's > >slings > > > and arrows... > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think our > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > >countless > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long as > >it's > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because it > >works > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a derogatory > >name. > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? Isn't > >that > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian blood at > >all > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > >Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > >http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

Elkdreamer, You are just spilling over with words of wisdom tonight. I could just hug your neck.haha Yokoke, yokoke, yokoke, Arla ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:40 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > Halito Dusty and to all on List. > As you know the US.government dosn't specify what the blood quantrum must > be to be Indian. It states,if the tribe reconises them that is enough for > them. Years ago in the prison system the brothers there felt that if you > didn't have a card or something to prove that you were Indian you wasn't, > and guranteed there was some that wantsd to be a part of what we had there > that had no Indian in them at all. But as more City Indians as we called > them started to come into the system we had to be more open minded. We were > placed there to teach not Judge. > I read something on the internet a while back it stated that Indian blood > no matter how thin, shines like gold. I believe that Indianess comes from > the heart no matter what the blood quantrum is. > I have been in the Sweat lodge with brothers from all Nations and it was a > good Sweat. I have walked on the prison yard with Brothers from all Nations > with all different degrees of Indian blood. What mattered to me was not how > much Indian blood they had, but how much Indian were they. > In this Day and Age there are not very many full bloods of any Indian > Race. They may be full blood Indian but it usually two or three or more > different tribes mixed togeather. It is not important what the mix is , > What is important is what is inside of you. Grandfather is the only one that > has the right to say who is Indian and who is not. And in a Sweat Lodge I > have seen him do it. > Walk in Beauty Elkdreamer > > >

I have been told that the Choctaw Nation prefers the term Indian over native American since anyone born in America is also a native American. This makes sense to me. However, each nation has their own opinion. In addition I think it's what ever you are comfortable with. On a previous question. In Minnesota the tribes historically accepted persons into tribe who basically moved in with them, became community supporters and identified with the tribe and its goals. This included captives who were adopted. Friends on various reservations in Minnesota also chuckle at the concept of full blood because over the years of euro contact who can really know blood genetics. For example Crazy Horse was light haired and blue eyed according to a Lakota friend. The Mandans have many with light eyes and hair. Look at the pictures of a lot of the old Choctaw and you see euro influence. The Choctaw have had contact since they ran De Soto out in the early 1500s.

People need to remember that blood quantum was not an Indian idea..and it was brought into use by those who wanted our lands...and who wanted to divide us into oblivion...and they have almost succeeded, but not quite... B. >>-->CHATA SIA HOKE<--<<

I got to go to Philbrook Museum in Tulsa today to view a basket exhibit. It had baskets from the early part of the century. I saw Chata baskets, a bullnose or cow nose basket done by Fannie Battiest and a larger basket by Mariella Johnson.I was thrilled when I looked at them.They are baskets I do.A wonderful sense of connection came over me standing there looking at those baskets woven in the first half of the last century.They were beautiful and still useful. I hope that in a hundred years someone picks up one of my baskets and wonders who the Chata Ohoyo was who made it. There was also a Coushatta basket by Cinsie Abbey... The weaver in me was in pure heaven.If any of you have a chance or are close enough to Tulsa to go, it is worth it. Arla

Hi Dusty and all, I want to say that my brother looks full blood Indian but we are just 1/32. I don't look a bit like and Indian but I have the same amt of blood as he does. I feel the amt of Indian doesn't matter. We are all brothers and sisters just some of us have proof and others don't. I think we should all remember TOGETHER WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL. All of us need to unite together and stop worring about how much blood we have but our people were all at one time full blood so who cares if you are full or just a little. You are still my sister and brother and all are NA. Regards, Linda Kirby Branum (Guynes and Sain are my Indian heritage surnames) Guynes being Choctaw and documented and Sain Cherokee undocumented. But I feel ancestors calling from both!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies Gemma and all: > > I am intrigued and challenged by your question, "Does the community still > exist." I have pondered this question for many years and under many > different circumstances., and would like to get some feedback from other > listmembers. > > What is the state of the Indian community today..... > Specifically, WHAT IS AN INDIAN? Is it a matter of blood quantum? > Lifestyle? Beliefs? > > There can be no argument that there is definite predjudice among NA as to > "who is Indian" and who is not. There are "skins" and there are "bloods". > Why the separation? What does it take to be considered "Indian enough". > Are some NAs practicing a racism they would decry in other races.? Don't > quote me the government's definition of Indian, I'm well aware of that. > > I want the opinions of others on this list. > > dusty > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David and Tommie Marsters <haili65@proaxis.com> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:30 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > Well put, Gemma. I agree. > > Tommie > > > > Gemma West wrote: > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > trying to > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit in. > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions of > good > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look to > their > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. It is > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. It > is > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing is > that > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > Indians and > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is finding > the few > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it causes us > to > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they here to > get? > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about this > reverse > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our own > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live with. > This > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. If we > can > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great thing. > After > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world shaped > by > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > balance. It > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we went > to > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in us > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a white > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, but > they > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to put > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at best > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > B. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to everyone's > > > slings > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think > our > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > > > countless > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long as > it's > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because it > works > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a derogatory > name. > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? Isn't > that > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian blood > at > > > all > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > quotes > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ >

Elkdreamer, you said a mouth full and went straight to the heart of it. Yokoke Arla ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > Halito Barbara, Gemma And Dusty > Last night I was talking to my nephew about the problem that we are having > of our kids getting involved with gangs and such. I was looking back on my > life and the road that I took and tried to explain why It took that course. > In my experience I believe Indian people have a innerself that needs to be a > part of a tribe, this is our makeup our genetic being and our ancestors > survival trait. In this day and age a lot of us being removed from the > tribal closeness that were searching for took a lot of different roads. > Luckly some of us finally found the Red road and are coming back to the home > fires of our people. > When the rest finally find their way back we need to be there to help > them. > For seven generations > Walk in Beauty > Elkdreamer >

the lands were even divided according to which tribe of israelite one was it was like each had there own territory and or nation ----- Original Message ----- From: Patsy Caleb <studentarchaeologist@home.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > you know what dusty > god always kept brothers apart from each other the danites over here and the > davidites in another area > or the whites in one area and the indains in another area etc > i just think thats the way; its supposed to be > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 2:10 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > The problem seems to be, with people who have no Indian blood, getting > them > > to LISTEN. The native people of this country are far more in tune with > what > > is going on re this continent than the invaders, but those who are all > into > > technology and the worship of man's knowledge rather than Gods knowledge > > seem to screw everything up and then wonder what happened to make things > go > > wrong. IMHO > > > > dusty > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 2:01 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > Those who have grown up in Indian communities but seem to have no > > knowledge > > > of their own spirituality are still aware of something inside that is > > > different, even if they don't know what it is.(Because of the thick > > > assimilation) > > > And it is my hope that more of our people will recognise that we are not > > > "second class" and that our spirituality is not just a matter of > > "beliefs", > > > and that it is not "inferior" to the spirituality any other race of > > > people...It is also my hope that those non-Indians who can learn a > better > > > way of living in balance from Indians, or whoever, will do so... > > > B. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Gemma West" <gemmawest@usa.net> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:35 PM > > > Subject: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > > trying > > > to > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit in. > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions of > > > good > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look to > > > their > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. It > is > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. > It > > is > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing is > > > that > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > > Indians > > > and > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is finding > > the > > > few > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it causes > us > > > to > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they here > to > > > get? > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about this > > > reverse > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our own > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live with. > > > This > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. If > we > > > can > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great thing. > > > After > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world > shaped > > > by > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > > balance. > > > It > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we > went > > > to > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in > us > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a > white > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, > but > > > they > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to > put > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at > best > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > B. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to everyone's > > > > slings > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think > > our > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > > > > countless > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long > as > > > it's > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because it > > > works > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a derogatory > > > name. > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? > Isn't > > > that > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian > blood > > at > > > > all > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > quotes > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at > http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the > list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

Halito Dennis I will get the book and read it. Then I will be able to tell you if they are the same. It sound like interesting reading. Walk in Beauty Elkdreamer >From: Dennis Boswell <dennisb@primenet.com> >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 21:03:10 -0700 > >Halito Elkdreamer, > >I just finished reading a most interesting book - "Searching for the Bright >Path, the Mississippi Choctaw from Prehistory to Removal," by James Taylor >Carson, 1999, University of Nebraska Press, ISBN 0-8032-1503-7. On the >inside front cover appears the following, > >"... Blending an engaging narrative style with broader theoretical >considerations, James Taylor Carson offers the most complete history of the >Mississippi Choctaws to date. He traces the story of the Choctaws from >their origins in the Mississippian cultures of late prehistory through >their varied encounters with the French, Spanish, English, Africans, and >Americans, concluding with their forced removal to Indian Territory in the >early nineteenth century. > >Carson shows how the Choctaws struggled to adapt to life in a New World >altered radically by contact while retaining their sense of identify and >place. Despite changes in subsistence practices and material culture, the >Choctaws made every effort to retain certain core cultural beliefs and >sensibilities, a strategy they conceived of as following 'the straight >bright path'." > >For those interested in the old ways and your origins, I heartily recommend >it. I found myself asking is the "straight bright path" of the old ones >what you refer to today as the "red road," or is there a difference? > >At 07:36 PM 04/05/2001 -0700, you wrote: >>Halito Barbara, Gemma And Dusty >> Last night I was talking to my nephew about the problem that we are >>having of our kids getting involved with gangs and such. I was looking >>back on my life and the road that I took and tried to explain why It took >>that course. In my experience I believe Indian people have a innerself >>that needs to be a part of a tribe, this is our makeup our genetic being >>and our ancestors survival trait. In this day and age a lot of us being >>removed from the tribal closeness that were searching for took a lot of >>different roads. Luckly some of us finally found the Red road and are >>coming back to the home fires of our people. >> When the rest finally find their way back we need to be there to help >>them. >> For seven generations >> Walk in Beauty >> Elkdreamer >> >>>From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> >>>Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >>>To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >>>Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies >>>Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:01:33 -0500 >>> >>>Those who have grown up in Indian communities but seem to have no >>>knowledge >>>of their own spirituality are still aware of something inside that is >>>different, even if they don't know what it is.(Because of the thick >>>assimilation) >>>And it is my hope that more of our people will recognise that we are not >>>"second class" and that our spirituality is not just a matter of >>>"beliefs", >>>and that it is not "inferior" to the spirituality any other race of >>>people...It is also my hope that those non-Indians who can learn a better >>>way of living in balance from Indians, or whoever, will do so... >>>B. >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Gemma West" <gemmawest@usa.net> >>>To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> >>>Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:35 PM >>>Subject: [CHAHTA] twinkies >>> >>> >>> > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life >>>trying >>>to >>> > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit in. >>> > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions of >>>good >>> > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look to >>>their >>> > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. It >>>is >>> > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. >>>It is >>> > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing is >>>that >>> > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around >>>Indians >>>and >>> > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is finding >>>the >>>few >>> > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. >>> > >>> > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it causes >>>us >>>to >>> > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they here >>>to >>>get? >>> > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about this >>>reverse >>> > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our own >>> > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live with. >>>This >>> > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. If >>>we >>>can >>> > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great thing. >>>After >>> > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world >>>shaped >>>by >>> > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of >>>balance. >>>It >>> > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: >>> > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we >>>went >>>to >>> > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in >>>us >>> > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a >>>white >>> > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, >>>but >>>they >>> > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to >>>put >>> > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at >>>best >>> > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... >>> > B. >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> >>> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> >>> > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM >>> > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies >>> > >>> > >>> > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to everyone's >>> > slings >>> > > and arrows... >>> > > >>> > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think >>>our >>> > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had >>> > countless >>> > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long >>>as >>>it's >>> > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because it >>>works >>> > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a derogatory >>>name. >>> > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. >>> > > >>> > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? >>>Isn't >>>that >>> > > TRUE racism? >>> > > >>> > > dusty >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> >>> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> >>> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM >>> > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla >>> > > > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> >>> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> >>> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM >>> > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > > Halito Fay >>> > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian >>>blood at >>> > all >>> > > > > Walk in Beauty >>> > > > > Elkdreamer >>> > > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >>> > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: >>> > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com >>> > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the >>>quotes >>> > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >>> > > Choctaw Home Page: >>> > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >>> > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at >>> > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. >>> > >>> > >>> > ____________________________________________________________________ >>> > Get free email and a permanent address at >>>http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 >>> > >>> > >>> > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >>> > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: >>> > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com >>> > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes >>> > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >>> > >>> >>> >>>==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >>>Choctaw Home Page: >>>http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com >> >> >>==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >>TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: >>Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com >>Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes >>Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >> >> > > >Regards, > >Dennis K. Boswell >301 Crow Canyon Drive >Folsom, CA 95630 > >Tel: (916) 987-3599 >Fax: (916) 987-3555 > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: >Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

I think the word "open mind " has lost its meaning we should now say "liberall mind" ----- Original Message ----- From: Elkdreamer Wilkins <elkdremr@hotmail.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 9:35 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > closed minds will never survive > Walk in Beauty > Elkdreamer > > > >From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > >Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 21:59:51 -0500 > > > >I agree with everything you say. Unfortunately, there are those who do not > >want us back. They reject us as having been "tainted" by too much white > >blood, too much white ideas, and a million other excuses. > > > >dusty > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Elkdreamer Wilkins <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 9:36 PM > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > Halito Barbara, Gemma And Dusty > > > Last night I was talking to my nephew about the problem that we are > >having > > > of our kids getting involved with gangs and such. I was looking back on > >my > > > life and the road that I took and tried to explain why It took that > >course. > > > In my experience I believe Indian people have a innerself that needs to > >be > >a > > > part of a tribe, this is our makeup our genetic being and our ancestors > > > survival trait. In this day and age a lot of us being removed from the > > > tribal closeness that were searching for took a lot of different roads. > > > Luckly some of us finally found the Red road and are coming back to the > >home > > > fires of our people. > > > When the rest finally find their way back we need to be there to help > > > them. > > > For seven generations > > > Walk in Beauty > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > >From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:01:33 -0500 > > > > > > > >Those who have grown up in Indian communities but seem to have no > >knowledge > > > >of their own spirituality are still aware of something inside that is > > > >different, even if they don't know what it is.(Because of the thick > > > >assimilation) > > > >And it is my hope that more of our people will recognise that we are > >not > > > >"second class" and that our spirituality is not just a matter of > >"beliefs", > > > >and that it is not "inferior" to the spirituality any other race of > > > >people...It is also my hope that those non-Indians who can learn a > >better > > > >way of living in balance from Indians, or whoever, will do so... > > > >B. > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Gemma West" <gemmawest@usa.net> > > > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:35 PM > > > >Subject: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > > > >trying > > > >to > > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit > >in. > > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions > >of > > > >good > > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look > >to > > > >their > > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. > >It > >is > > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. > >It > > > >is > > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing > >is > > > >that > > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > > > >Indians > > > >and > > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is > >finding > > > >the > > > >few > > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it > >causes > >us > > > >to > > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they here > >to > > > >get? > > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about > >this > > > >reverse > > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our > >own > > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live > >with. > > > >This > > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. > >If > >we > > > >can > > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great thing. > > > >After > > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world > >shaped > > > >by > > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > > > >balance. > > > >It > > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we > >went > > > >to > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in > >us > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a > >white > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, > >but > > > >they > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to > >put > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at > >best > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > B. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > >everyone's > > > > > slings > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think > > > >our > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > > > > > countless > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long > >as > > > >it's > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because > >it > > > >works > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > >derogatory > > > >name. > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? > >Isn't > > > >that > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian > >blood > > > >at > > > > > all > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > > >quotes > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at > >http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > >quotes > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > >Choctaw Home Page: > > > >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > >Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the > >list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > >CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

maybe you could begin by asking if they know what area the indian relations may be from oklahoma or texas or arkansas etc ----- Original Message ----- From: faynshep <faynshep@telapex.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 12:05 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Don't ever do this !!!!! > I'm not picking on anyone, it's just that in 39 years, that is the ultimate > no-no. I really should print it out and frame it and put it on the overhead > cabinet door. > Fay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Choctaw <choctaw@bscn.com> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 9:59 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Don't ever do this !!!!! > > > > LOL!! Fay, just respond and tell them you know exactly who their family is > > and name names... NO! I'm kidding, sorry...it's too late and I'm saying > > wayyy too much, I need to sleep! > > Shelley > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Choctaw Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ >

I agree with everything you say. Unfortunately, there are those who do not want us back. They reject us as having been "tainted" by too much white blood, too much white ideas, and a million other excuses. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Elkdreamer Wilkins <elkdremr@hotmail.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > Halito Barbara, Gemma And Dusty > Last night I was talking to my nephew about the problem that we are having > of our kids getting involved with gangs and such. I was looking back on my > life and the road that I took and tried to explain why It took that course. > In my experience I believe Indian people have a innerself that needs to be a > part of a tribe, this is our makeup our genetic being and our ancestors > survival trait. In this day and age a lot of us being removed from the > tribal closeness that were searching for took a lot of different roads. > Luckly some of us finally found the Red road and are coming back to the home > fires of our people. > When the rest finally find their way back we need to be there to help > them. > For seven generations > Walk in Beauty > Elkdreamer > > >From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:01:33 -0500 > > > >Those who have grown up in Indian communities but seem to have no knowledge > >of their own spirituality are still aware of something inside that is > >different, even if they don't know what it is.(Because of the thick > >assimilation) > >And it is my hope that more of our people will recognise that we are not > >"second class" and that our spirituality is not just a matter of "beliefs", > >and that it is not "inferior" to the spirituality any other race of > >people...It is also my hope that those non-Indians who can learn a better > >way of living in balance from Indians, or whoever, will do so... > >B. > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Gemma West" <gemmawest@usa.net> > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:35 PM > >Subject: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > >trying > >to > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit in. > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions of > >good > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look to > >their > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. It is > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. It > >is > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing is > >that > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > >Indians > >and > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is finding > >the > >few > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it causes us > >to > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they here to > >get? > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about this > >reverse > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our own > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live with. > >This > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. If we > >can > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great thing. > >After > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world shaped > >by > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > >balance. > >It > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we went > >to > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in us > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a white > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, but > >they > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to put > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at best > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > B. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to everyone's > > > slings > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think > >our > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > > > countless > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long as > >it's > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because it > >works > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a derogatory > >name. > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? Isn't > >that > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian blood > >at > > > all > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > >quotes > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > >Choctaw Home Page: > >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

Both. For those who are offended by the word "Indian", please substitute "Native American". I have used both and am personall not offended by "Indian". dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Boswell <dennisb@primenet.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 8:54 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > Dusty, did you mean to say "Indian" or should the question have read, "What > is a Native American?" > > At 08:29 PM 04/05/2001 -0500, you wrote: > >Gemma and all: > > > >I am intrigued and challenged by your question, "Does the community still > >exist." I have pondered this question for many years and under many > >different circumstances., and would like to get some feedback from other > >listmembers. > > > >What is the state of the Indian community today..... > >Specifically, WHAT IS AN INDIAN? Is it a matter of blood quantum? > >Lifestyle? Beliefs? > > > >There can be no argument that there is definite predjudice among NA as to > >"who is Indian" and who is not. There are "skins" and there are "bloods". > >Why the separation? What does it take to be considered "Indian enough". > >Are some NAs practicing a racism they would decry in other races.? Don't > >quote me the government's definition of Indian, I'm well aware of that. > > > >I want the opinions of others on this list. > > > >dusty > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: David and Tommie Marsters <haili65@proaxis.com> > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:30 PM > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > Well put, Gemma. I agree. > > > Tommie > > > > > > Gemma West wrote: > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > >trying to > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit in. > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions of > >good > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look to > >their > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. It is > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. It > >is > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing is > >that > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > >Indians and > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is finding > >the few > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it causes us > >to > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they here to > >get? > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about this > >reverse > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our own > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live with. > >This > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. If we > >can > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great thing. > >After > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world shaped > >by > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > >balance. It > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we went > >to > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in us > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a white > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, but > >they > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to put > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at best > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > B. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to everyone's > > > > slings > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think > >our > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > > > > countless > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long as > >it's > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because it > >works > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a derogatory > >name. > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? Isn't > >that > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian blood > >at > > > > all > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > >quotes > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > >Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > Regards, > > Dennis K. Boswell > 301 Crow Canyon Drive > Folsom, CA 95630 > > Tel: (916) 987-3599 > Fax: (916) 987-3555 > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Choctaw Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ >

Halito Dusty and Dennis I almost didn't respond to this, but in my opinion Native American means that you were born here, not that you are Indian. Walk in Beauty Elkdreamer >From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies >Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 21:56:23 -0500 > >Both. For those who are offended by the word "Indian", please substitute >"Native American". I have used both and am personall not offended by >"Indian". > >dusty >----- Original Message ----- >From: Dennis Boswell <dennisb@primenet.com> >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 8:54 PM >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > Dusty, did you mean to say "Indian" or should the question have read, >"What > > is a Native American?" > > > > At 08:29 PM 04/05/2001 -0500, you wrote: > > >Gemma and all: > > > > > >I am intrigued and challenged by your question, "Does the community >still > > >exist." I have pondered this question for many years and under many > > >different circumstances., and would like to get some feedback from >other > > >listmembers. > > > > > >What is the state of the Indian community today..... > > >Specifically, WHAT IS AN INDIAN? Is it a matter of blood quantum? > > >Lifestyle? Beliefs? > > > > > >There can be no argument that there is definite predjudice among NA as >to > > >"who is Indian" and who is not. There are "skins" and there are >"bloods". > > >Why the separation? What does it take to be considered "Indian >enough". > > >Are some NAs practicing a racism they would decry in other races.? >Don't > > >quote me the government's definition of Indian, I'm well aware of >that. > > > > > >I want the opinions of others on this list. > > > > > >dusty > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: David and Tommie Marsters <haili65@proaxis.com> > > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > >Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:30 PM > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > Well put, Gemma. I agree. > > > > Tommie > > > > > > > > Gemma West wrote: > > > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > > >trying to > > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit >in. > > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's >defintions >of > > >good > > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to >look >to > > >their > > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. >It is > > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological >characteristics. >It > > >is > > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad >thing >is > > >that > > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > > >Indians and > > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is >finding > > >the few > > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it >causes us > > >to > > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they >here >to > > >get? > > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about >this > > >reverse > > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our >own > > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live >with. > > >This > > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. >If we > > >can > > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great >thing. > > >After > > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world >shaped > > >by > > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > > >balance. It > > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something >we >went > > >to > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born >in >us > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a >white > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some >things, >but > > >they > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts >to >put > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at >best > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > B. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to >everyone's > > > > > slings > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just >think > > >our > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've >had > > > > > countless > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as >long >as > > >it's > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways >because >it > > >works > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a >derogatory > > >name. > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do >so. > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? >Isn't > > >that > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian >blood > > >at > > > > > all > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without >the > > >quotes > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > >____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at >http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the >quotes > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > >Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Dennis K. Boswell > > 301 Crow Canyon Drive > > Folsom, CA 95630 > > > > Tel: (916) 987-3599 > > Fax: (916) 987-3555 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Choctaw Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >Need more CHOCTAW information. Visit Rusty Lang's pages at >http://www.choctaw-web.com for articles, censuses, etc. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

closed minds will never survive Walk in Beauty Elkdreamer >From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies >Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 21:59:51 -0500 > >I agree with everything you say. Unfortunately, there are those who do not >want us back. They reject us as having been "tainted" by too much white >blood, too much white ideas, and a million other excuses. > >dusty >----- Original Message ----- >From: Elkdreamer Wilkins <elkdremr@hotmail.com> >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 9:36 PM >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > Halito Barbara, Gemma And Dusty > > Last night I was talking to my nephew about the problem that we are >having > > of our kids getting involved with gangs and such. I was looking back on >my > > life and the road that I took and tried to explain why It took that >course. > > In my experience I believe Indian people have a innerself that needs to >be >a > > part of a tribe, this is our makeup our genetic being and our ancestors > > survival trait. In this day and age a lot of us being removed from the > > tribal closeness that were searching for took a lot of different roads. > > Luckly some of us finally found the Red road and are coming back to the >home > > fires of our people. > > When the rest finally find their way back we need to be there to help > > them. > > For seven generations > > Walk in Beauty > > Elkdreamer > > > > >From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:01:33 -0500 > > > > > >Those who have grown up in Indian communities but seem to have no >knowledge > > >of their own spirituality are still aware of something inside that is > > >different, even if they don't know what it is.(Because of the thick > > >assimilation) > > >And it is my hope that more of our people will recognise that we are >not > > >"second class" and that our spirituality is not just a matter of >"beliefs", > > >and that it is not "inferior" to the spirituality any other race of > > >people...It is also my hope that those non-Indians who can learn a >better > > >way of living in balance from Indians, or whoever, will do so... > > >B. > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Gemma West" <gemmawest@usa.net> > > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > >Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:35 PM > > >Subject: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > > >trying > > >to > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit >in. > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions >of > > >good > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look >to > > >their > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. >It >is > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. >It > > >is > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing >is > > >that > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > > >Indians > > >and > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is >finding > > >the > > >few > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it >causes >us > > >to > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they here >to > > >get? > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about >this > > >reverse > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our >own > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live >with. > > >This > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. >If >we > > >can > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great thing. > > >After > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world >shaped > > >by > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > > >balance. > > >It > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we >went > > >to > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in >us > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a >white > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, >but > > >they > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to >put > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at >best > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > B. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to >everyone's > > > > slings > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think > > >our > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > > > > countless > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long >as > > >it's > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because >it > > >works > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a >derogatory > > >name. > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? >Isn't > > >that > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian >blood > > >at > > > > all > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > >quotes > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at >http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the >quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > >Choctaw Home Page: > > >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the >list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at >CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Dusty one of the things I see as I am out and about doing shows and talking to people is those people who connect with their long ago indigenous Ancestors seem to have a better grasp of taking care of community and the Earth.It is those who can't seem to find the connection that have a problem with hearing. Arla ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > The problem seems to be, with people who have no Indian blood, getting them > to LISTEN. The native people of this country are far more in tune with what > is going on re this continent than the invaders, but those who are all into > technology and the worship of man's knowledge rather than Gods knowledge > seem to screw everything up and then wonder what happened to make things go > wrong. IMHO > > dusty > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 2:01 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > Those who have grown up in Indian communities but seem to have no > knowledge > > of their own spirituality are still aware of something inside that is > > different, even if they don't know what it is.(Because of the thick > > assimilation) > > And it is my hope that more of our people will recognise that we are not > > "second class" and that our spirituality is not just a matter of > "beliefs", > > and that it is not "inferior" to the spirituality any other race of > > people...It is also my hope that those non-Indians who can learn a better > > way of living in balance from Indians, or whoever, will do so... > > B. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gemma West" <gemmawest@usa.net> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:35 PM > > Subject: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > trying > > to > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit in. > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions of > > good > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look to > > their > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. It is > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. It > is > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing is > > that > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > Indians > > and > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is finding > the > > few > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it causes us > > to > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they here to > > get? > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about this > > reverse > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our own > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live with. > > This > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. If we > > can > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great thing. > > After > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world shaped > > by > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > balance. > > It > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we went > > to > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in us > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a white > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, but > > they > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to put > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at best > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > B. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to everyone's > > > slings > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think > our > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > > > countless > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long as > > it's > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because it > > works > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a derogatory > > name. > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? Isn't > > that > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian blood > at > > > all > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > quotes > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Choctaw Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > >

Halito Elkdreamer, I just finished reading a most interesting book - "Searching for the Bright Path, the Mississippi Choctaw from Prehistory to Removal," by James Taylor Carson, 1999, University of Nebraska Press, ISBN 0-8032-1503-7. On the inside front cover appears the following, "... Blending an engaging narrative style with broader theoretical considerations, James Taylor Carson offers the most complete history of the Mississippi Choctaws to date. He traces the story of the Choctaws from their origins in the Mississippian cultures of late prehistory through their varied encounters with the French, Spanish, English, Africans, and Americans, concluding with their forced removal to Indian Territory in the early nineteenth century. Carson shows how the Choctaws struggled to adapt to life in a New World altered radically by contact while retaining their sense of identify and place. Despite changes in subsistence practices and material culture, the Choctaws made every effort to retain certain core cultural beliefs and sensibilities, a strategy they conceived of as following 'the straight bright path'." For those interested in the old ways and your origins, I heartily recommend it. I found myself asking is the "straight bright path" of the old ones what you refer to today as the "red road," or is there a difference? At 07:36 PM 04/05/2001 -0700, you wrote: >Halito Barbara, Gemma And Dusty > Last night I was talking to my nephew about the problem that we are > having of our kids getting involved with gangs and such. I was looking > back on my life and the road that I took and tried to explain why It took > that course. In my experience I believe Indian people have a innerself > that needs to be a part of a tribe, this is our makeup our genetic being > and our ancestors survival trait. In this day and age a lot of us being > removed from the tribal closeness that were searching for took a lot of > different roads. Luckly some of us finally found the Red road and are > coming back to the home fires of our people. > When the rest finally find their way back we need to be there to help them. > For seven generations > Walk in Beauty > Elkdreamer > >>From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> >>Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >>To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >>Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies >>Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:01:33 -0500 >> >>Those who have grown up in Indian communities but seem to have no knowledge >>of their own spirituality are still aware of something inside that is >>different, even if they don't know what it is.(Because of the thick >>assimilation) >>And it is my hope that more of our people will recognise that we are not >>"second class" and that our spirituality is not just a matter of "beliefs", >>and that it is not "inferior" to the spirituality any other race of >>people...It is also my hope that those non-Indians who can learn a better >>way of living in balance from Indians, or whoever, will do so... >>B. >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Gemma West" <gemmawest@usa.net> >>To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> >>Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:35 PM >>Subject: [CHAHTA] twinkies >> >> >> > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life trying >>to >> > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit in. >> > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions of >>good >> > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look to >>their >> > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. It is >> > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. It is >> > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing is >>that >> > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around Indians >>and >> > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is finding the >>few >> > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. >> > >> > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it causes us >>to >> > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they here to >>get? >> > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about this >>reverse >> > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our own >> > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live with. >>This >> > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. If we >>can >> > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great thing. >>After >> > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world shaped >>by >> > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of balance. >>It >> > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. >> > >> > >> > >> > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: >> > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we went >>to >> > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in us >> > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a white >> > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, but >>they >> > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to put >> > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at best >> > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... >> > B. >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> >> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> >> > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM >> > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies >> > >> > >> > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to everyone's >> > slings >> > > and arrows... >> > > >> > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think >>our >> > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had >> > countless >> > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long as >>it's >> > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because it >>works >> > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a derogatory >>name. >> > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. >> > > >> > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? Isn't >>that >> > > TRUE racism? >> > > >> > > dusty >> > > >> > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> >> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> >> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM >> > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies >> > > >> > > >> > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> >> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> >> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM >> > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Halito Fay >> > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian blood at >> > all >> > > > > Walk in Beauty >> > > > > Elkdreamer >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >> > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: >> > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com >> > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes >> > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >> > > Choctaw Home Page: >> > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ >> > > >> > >> > >> > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >> > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at >> > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. >> > >> > >> > ____________________________________________________________________ >> > Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 >> > >> > >> > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >> > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: >> > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com >> > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes >> > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >> > >> >> >>==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >>Choctaw Home Page: >>http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: >Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > Regards, Dennis K. Boswell 301 Crow Canyon Drive Folsom, CA 95630 Tel: (916) 987-3599 Fax: (916) 987-3555