It didn't say where Cebsie was from but the basket was aquired in 1936. Mariella Johnson was from Bayou Lacomb and hers was aquired in 1942. It was wonderful and there is a book that goes along with the exhibit but it was too expensive for me. Arla ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 9:07 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Chata Baskets > Would like to have seen that, Arla. I would imagine Cenise Abbey is kin to > Mr. Bell Abbey who I had the pleasure of knowing. Fine old, honored > Coushatta gentleman. >

Thats true Barbara, but do we have to treat our people as the goverment did and ask each one how much blood they have? I don't think so. I know you are just explaining this and you wouldn't feel that one has to have proof of Indian Heritage before you would let them in our circle. I feel my ancestors drawing me back into them and want anyone who feels the same to be my brother and sister. I don't care if they are full blood or 1/250 its NA blood running in their veins as in mine, only I have proof. I only have rumors of Cherokee blood in me but proof on my Choctaw side but my ancestors are calling me from both sides and I feel both are present. There are many Indian's who didn't enroll as NA so the goverment wouldn't get into their business. I am sure thats why lots of the ones who can't find any documentation can't find that. I also heard that in some places if you were NA and told you were 1/2 or more blood that the goverment said that you had to have a white person take care of your business. Has anyone else heard this? Regards, Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Ellison" <greybird7@pisp.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:36 PM Subject: [CHAHTA] blood quantums, etc... > People need to remember that blood quantum was not an Indian idea..and it was brought into use by those who wanted our lands...and who wanted to divide us into oblivion...and they have almost succeeded, but not quite... > B. > >>-->CHATA SIA HOKE<--<< > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

You know, it tells you so much but it doesn't say what year that information was taken so you don't know when a person was born. I will call them and see if I can order over the phone. Fay ----- Original Message ----- From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 7:22 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Dawes info.? > I can tell you what family members are listed on the same census card, > sometimes helping people to recognize if a name is their ancestor or not. > > Seems to me like I have been told you can do this over the phone with credit > card. > > dusty > ----- Original Message ----- > From: faynshep <faynshep@telapex.com> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:14 AM > Subject: [CHAHTA] Dawes info.? > > > > Dusty, Can you order a packet over the phone and pay with a credit card? > > I have a name, age, census number, and roll number. Is there any more > info. > > on what you have? > > Fay > > Don't ever give up.!!!! > > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/gedcoms/ratcliff/ > > List owner HOLDEN-L, SCHIFANO-L > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

Of course we all know that we can't say what the state of the Indian community is without taking the separate nations into account. I live in Connecticut, near the Pequots and Mohegans. These Indians have very low quantum and very small numbers because the eradication was so swift and merciless out here. Today they are doing extremely well financially but, because of what was been lost in the past, they have actually had to bring in non-members to reacquaint them with native traditions. I applaud their honesty in doing this. I also applaud their move in this direction. It is obvious to both me and them that Indian is a shallow word a without cultural sense to back it up. Then there are nations like the nations, like the Choctaw, Cherokee, and Seminole that have been split into several bands. I look at the MBCI vs. the OK Choctaw, The Ketoowah band of Cherokee and NC Cherokee vs. the OK Cherokee and I see huge differences in cultural integrity, community, and shared missions. For the western nations like the Hopi, whose cultures were assualted but whose people remained relatively close to their source, cultural integrity seems to be relatively high but so is poverty. So simply being part of a group does not cut it. Many of these groups have become corporations of sorts. It is hard for me to respect that. Then there are my sisters and brothers to the south who are still in armed warfare. People are still dying for this way of life. I hope everyone is aware of that. Personally, I know that blood means nothing if the individual doesn't draw on her ancestors as the foundation for herself. Walking away from ancestors requires a lot of effort, but I know many who have done it. It's hard to make yourself over into something you're not and so easy to return to who you are. Defining Indians by blood fails by my ancestors' measures (the Choctaw nation accepted many members of neighboring nations and cast out those who refused to abide by the code). Defining Indians by culture was what we did. But who decides on the culture when it has been splintered and turned upon itself so many times? That is the hard part. Until we sit down and determine where we should be it is premature to try to guide others. Obviously you can not give someone a multiple choice test to determine enrollment. This is a big issue, not only for ourselves but for the future of sovereignty. A sovereign nation should be able to accept any citizen that it wants but sovereignty is limited by America. As the Pequots grow wealthy, non-Indians look at them and say: Well they don't look Indian. Why do they get those special benefits? As the MBCI and OK Choctaws take in funds from gaming non-Indians say: Well that's not a very "Indian" thing to do (even if they are really wondering about their share). And yes some Indians are practicing racism. I can understand some motives, I don't understand others. But I do know one thing. I strive to be myself for only one group of people. Those are my ancestors. How others define me or what others think of me is completely irrelevant. I am half Indian and half African. I will never compromise that for anyone or anything. Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> wrote: Gemma and all: I am intrigued and challenged by your question, "Does the community still exist." I have pondered this question for many years and under many different circumstances., and would like to get some feedback from other listmembers. What is the state of the Indian community today..... Specifically, WHAT IS AN INDIAN? Is it a matter of blood quantum? Lifestyle? Beliefs? There can be no argument that there is definite predjudice among NA as to "who is Indian" and who is not. There are "skins" and there are "bloods". Why the separation? What does it take to be considered "Indian enough". Are some NAs practicing a racism they would decry in other races.? Don't quote me the government's definition of Indian, I'm well aware of that. I want the opinions of others on this list. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: David and Tommie Marsters <haili65@proaxis.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:30 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > Well put, Gemma. I agree. > Tommie > > Gemma West wrote: > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life trying to > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit in. > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions of good > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look to their > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. It is > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. It is > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing is that > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around Indians and > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is finding the few > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it causes us to > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they here to get? > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about this reverse > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our own > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live with. This > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. If we can > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great thing. After > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world shaped by > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of balance. It > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we went to > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in us > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a white > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, but they > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to put > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at best > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > B. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to everyone's > > slings > > > and arrows... > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think our > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > > countless > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long as it's > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because it works > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a derogatory name. > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? Isn't that > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian blood at > > all > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1

Job wasn't willing at first - who would be?? - he suffered a lot. But he finally accepted that God would be God no matter what Job thought. The God restored his wealth and family. Job was the son of Issachar, directly descended from Reuben, son of Jacob. Without taking time to do a study to trace lineage, it appears this was before Moses, thus before the law was given. I could be mistaken. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Colin Kelley <CKELLEY@swpa.gov> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 8:07 AM Subject: RE: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > Halito, Elkdreamer > I guess I got lost about the point somewhere. If Job accepted it, was he > not willing? I see what you meant anyway. By the way, when did Job live? > Before or after the Law was given? > Colin Kelley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Elkdreamer Wilkins [mailto:elkdremr@hotmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 9:06 PM > To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > Halito Colin > The thing about Job is every thing that happen to him was not a sacrifice it > > was a test of his god. He accepted it but he was not a wllling participent. > Read Job 16-7 . > Walk in Beauty > Elkdreamer > > > >From: Colin Kelley <CKELLEY@swpa.gov> > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: RE: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > >Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 13:39:26 -0500 > > > >Did Job sacrifice a son? > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Patsy Caleb [mailto:studentarchaeologist@home.com] > >Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 12:11 PM > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > >The original "Thou Shalt not kill" reads "Thou shalt not kill without a > >reason" from the Lost Books of the Bible and forgotten Books of Eden" > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Jim Morrison, Jr. <jmorsn@coastalnet.com> > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 10:16 PM > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > > What "animal" gives its life freely to death? > > > The ONLY one that could is MAN (human). And even MAN does not do so > > > hesitation. Could you honestly take a child of YOUR'S and kill the child > >as > > > an offering? For whatever the "rewards" that were promised. Could you? > > > When did Job sacarafice is son? Before or after the 10 Commandments were > > > writen? Why? Isn't one of the Commandments "Thous Shall Not Kill"? > > > Jim > > > > > > jmorsn@coastalnet.com > > > http://www2.coastalnet.com/~g7d3j4nb/ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 7:12 AM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > > > > > good question > > > > I think that the statement, offering of his life could be > >considered > >to > > > > be like Job in the Bible he really didn't do it willing but when he > >did > > > God > > > > blessed him. Kind of like the warrior does giving thanks to the > >animal's > > > > spirit so he could feed his family. > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > >Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 09:27:28 -0500 > > > > > > > > > >I have one question here just for clarification. It doesn't mean I'm > > > > >challenging your statement, it just means I have a question, OK? If > >the > > > > >animal is giving an offering of it's life, why does it run away? > > > > > > > > > >dusty > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > >From: Elkdreamer Wilkins <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > >Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 5:19 AM > > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Jim > > > > > > #1 question > > > > > > Another word for the supreme being > > > > > > #2 the offering of its life > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Jim Morrison, Jr." <jmorsn@coastalnet.com> > > > > > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > >Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 01:23:34 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Two quick questions: > > > > > > >1) Who is "Grand Father"? > > > > > > >2) The ANIMAL is giving an offering when IT is killed? > > > > > > >Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > > >jmorsn@coastalnet.com > > > > > > >http://www2.coastalnet.com/~g7d3j4nb/ > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > >From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > >Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 10:36 PM > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Dennis > > > > > > > > I am sorry if I offended you in anyway. My intrest is in all > > > > >things > > > > > > > > Choctaw. and Spirituality is one of the aspects of it. To > > > understand > > > > > > >Indian > > > > > > > > people you have to dig deep into their thought pattern. When > >they > > > > >killed > > > > > > > > animals for food and clothing they said a prayer To > >Grandfather > > > for > > > > >the > > > > > > > > offering that the animal gave and gave respect to the animal > >also. > > > > >When > > > > > > >they > > > > > > > > did beadwork they put part of their spirit in it also. when a > > > object > > > > >was > > > > > > > > discarded it was done with respect. Spirtuality was considered > >in > > > > >all > > > > > > >things > > > > > > > > done. That is one of the reasons that the Europeans that came > >here > > > > > > > > misunderstood our people and their ways. > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Dennis Boswell <dennisb@primenet.com> > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > > > >Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 09:56:57 -0800 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Message for Elkdreamer and Dusty: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Regarding who subscribes to CHAHTA-L and why, permit me to > > > suggest > > > > >that > > > > > > > > >this list very likely has Choctaw and non-Choctaw > >subscribers. > > > > >Among > > > > > > >both > > > > > > > > >groups, there are those who have an exclusive interest in > > > religion > > > > >all > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > >way to those who have an exclusive interest in some other > >aspect > > > of > > > > > > >Choctaw > > > > > > > > >life but no interest at all in religion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >In my case, I find Choctaw religious beliefs and the recent > > > > >discussion > > > > > > > > >surrounding them educational and thought provoking. However, > >my > > > > > > >personal > > > > > > > > >interest does not directly concern Choctaw religion. It is > >very > > > > >narrow > > > > > > >and > > > > > > > > >concerns central Mississippi, pre-removal Choctaw social and > > > family > > > > > > > > >customs, very narrowly defined examples of the Choctaw > >language > > > as > > > > > > >about > > > > > > > > >1800, relationships with early white settlers, trails and > >paths > > > > > > >followed > > > > > > >by > > > > > > > > >these Choctaw in relationship to today's central Mississippi > > > county > > > > > > > > >boundaries and the impact of removal on these same Choctaw > >with > > > > > > >specific > > > > > > > > >emphasis on the Durant Choctaw clan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >If I unsubscribe, which I will do one day (to return at a > >later > > > > >date), > > > > > > >it > > > > > > > > >will have nothing to do with whether I do or do not "learn > >other > > > > > > >religious > > > > > > > > >views," "heat in the kitchen" or "sensitive subjects." It > >will > > > have > > > > > > > > >everything to do with the fact that I subscribe to about > > > > >thirty-five > > > > > > >lists, > > > > > > > > >receive mountains of email and have priorities on my time and > >my > > > > > > >interests > > > > > > > > >that are quite different than anyone else on this list - a > > > comment > > > > >that > > > > > > > > >about everyone of you can make. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Recognize that one of the wonderful aspects of CHAHTA-L (in > > > > >comparison > > > > > > >with > > > > > > > > >virtually all na hollo lists) is the diversity of thought, > > > > >background, > > > > > > > > >education and perspective it offers. Were I to make one > > > suggestion > > > > >to > > > > > > >those > > > > > > > > >of you who clearly dominate this list, please guard against > > > > >becoming > > > > > > >too > > > > > > > > >clannish lest the very diversity that enriches this site > >might > >in > > > > >time > > > > > > > > >vanish leaving something less in its wake than you enjoy > >today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >At 08:50 AM 03/31/2001 -0800, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >>Halito Dusty and All list members > > > > > > > > >> I believe that we all have the right to believe in the way > > > that > > > > >we > > > > > > >want > > > > > > > > >>to. And in this aspect the right to discuss our and each > >others > > > > >views > > > > > > >in > > > > > > > > >>a intellegent and Adult way. Aparentlly the ones that left > >will > > > in > > > > >no > > > > > > >way > > > > > > > > >>ever learn that there are other views than their own. Like I > > > have > > > > > > >always > > > > > > > > >>been told if you can't stand the heat get out of the > >kitchen. > >I > > > > >guess > > > > > > > > >>that is what they did. Lets keep up the heat I'm having fun. > > > > > > > > >> Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > >> Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > > > >>>Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > >>>To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > >>>Subject: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > > > >>>Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 09:38:58 -0600 > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>>We lost another 5 listmembers this morning. Don't know for > > > what > > > > > > >reason. > > > > > > > > >>>While I suspect sensitive subject matter may be the reason, > > > this > > > > >is > > > > > > >only > > > > > > > > >>>a > > > > > > > > >>>supposition on my part. I have absolutely no objection to > >the > > > > >topic > > > > > > > > >>>continuing if that's what you guys want. Among other > > > > >peculiarities > > > > > > >and > > > > > > > > >>>character faults, I happen to wholeheartedly support the > >First > > > > > > >Amendment > > > > > > > > >>>on > > > > > > > > >>>this particular topic. What do you guys think?? > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>>dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > >Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > > > > > >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > >http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post > >it > > > to > > > > >the > > > > > > >list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > > > > > > >CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > >Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > > > >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > >Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > >Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > >http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > >To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > >Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ >

Yes Sonja, the white buffalo has come. Welcome to our circle and please continue your input. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Sonja Tashman <sonja_tashman@hotmail.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 4:22 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > Halito to all, > Maybe I am wrong and I am sure I will be corrected if so LOL, but it seems > to me that in a round about way the prophecy of the Indian people once again > getting back all that belonged to them may, in a way, involve not the actual > possession of material possessions, but getting back to the old ways and > beliefs? And if this may be true, then would it not matter that the Nations > be full bloods or mixed bloods? Again I say I may be wrong and fully > prepared to be so but, I only know that even though I may be lighter than > most full bloods, my blood, heart and soul is the same as all my relations > from generations back. > > Sonja > > > >From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 19:36:28 -0700 > > > >Halito Barbara, Gemma And Dusty > > Last night I was talking to my nephew about the problem that we are > >having > >of our kids getting involved with gangs and such. I was looking back on my > >life and the road that I took and tried to explain why It took that course. > >In my experience I believe Indian people have a innerself that needs to be > >a > >part of a tribe, this is our makeup our genetic being and our ancestors > >survival trait. In this day and age a lot of us being removed from the > >tribal closeness that were searching for took a lot of different roads. > >Luckly some of us finally found the Red road and are coming back to the > >home > >fires of our people. > > When the rest finally find their way back we need to be there to help > >them. > > For seven generations > > Walk in Beauty > > Elkdreamer > > > >>From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > >>Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > >>To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > >>Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > >>Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:01:33 -0500 > >> > >>Those who have grown up in Indian communities but seem to have no > >>knowledge > >>of their own spirituality are still aware of something inside that is > >>different, even if they don't know what it is.(Because of the thick > >>assimilation) > >>And it is my hope that more of our people will recognise that we are not > >>"second class" and that our spirituality is not just a matter of > >>"beliefs", > >>and that it is not "inferior" to the spirituality any other race of > >>people...It is also my hope that those non-Indians who can learn a better > >>way of living in balance from Indians, or whoever, will do so... > >>B. > >>----- Original Message ----- > >>From: "Gemma West" <gemmawest@usa.net> > >>To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > >>Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:35 PM > >>Subject: [CHAHTA] twinkies > >> > >> > >> > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > >>trying > >>to > >> > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit in. > >> > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions of > >>good > >> > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look to > >>their > >> > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. It > >>is > >> > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. It > >>is > >> > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing is > >>that > >> > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > >>Indians > >>and > >> > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is finding > >>the > >>few > >> > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > >> > > >> > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it causes > >>us > >>to > >> > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they here to > >>get? > >> > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about this > >>reverse > >> > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our own > >> > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live with. > >>This > >> > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. If > >>we > >>can > >> > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great thing. > >>After > >> > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world > >>shaped > >>by > >> > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > >>balance. > >>It > >> > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > >> > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we > >>went > >>to > >> > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in us > >> > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a > >>white > >> > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, but > >>they > >> > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to put > >> > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at best > >> > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > >> > B. > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > >> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > >> > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > >> > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > >> > > >> > > >> > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to everyone's > >> > slings > >> > > and arrows... > >> > > > >> > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think > >>our > >> > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > >> > countless > >> > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long as > >>it's > >> > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because it > >>works > >> > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a derogatory > >>name. > >> > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > >> > > > >> > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? Isn't > >>that > >> > > TRUE racism? > >> > > > >> > > dusty > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > >> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > >> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > >> > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > >> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > >> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > >> > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Halito Fay > >> > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian blood > >>at > >> > all > >> > > > > Walk in Beauty > >> > > > > Elkdreamer > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > >> > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > >> > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > >> > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > >>quotes > >> > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > >> > > Choctaw Home Page: > >> > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > >> > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > >> > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > >> > > >> > > >> > ____________________________________________________________________ > >> > Get free email and a permanent address at > >>http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > >> > > >> > > >> > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > >> > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > >> > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > >> > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > >> > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > >> > > >> > >> > >>==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > >>Choctaw Home Page: > >>http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > >> > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > >TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > >Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

Thanks for your good words, Rusty. Please continue your input. Many of us, including myself, would also much prefer to talk of these things on a one to one basis. I think that is best. Each of us have matters that we feel are too sacred for a public discussion forum such as this. However, one of the problems that resulted from the scattering of our people is our inability to communicate due to distance and estrangement. We on this list (numbers now down considerably), have only this means fellowship as our ancestors once did in person. I would much prefer we were sitting in talk circle in a room somewhere, or around a campfire. Unfortunately, that's usually not possible in our world today. I personally feel it is IMPERATIVE that the "lost birds" among us reconnect with each other. Our cultural survival is at stake. While those whose families chose to remain in Mississippi may feel they are the keepers of the culture, the facts are that the stringent blood quantum criteria set by the tribe has doomed it to eventual extinction. Their numbers are up temporarily through enrollment, due to the fact that their very capable leadership has now made it possible to remain in the neighborhood and survive economically. My ancestors had to leave Mississippi or starve. And there are many who remained who came very close to starving. I have seen figures of slightly more than 100 heads of households counted among the Choctaws in Mississippi as recently as the 1920's. There are many whose own grandchildren are not eligible for enrollment. Thanks be to God, the Oklahoma Choctaw nation has wisely chosen to include all who can "prove up." But there are still those thousands whose families remain undocumented, through no fault of their own. This medium is second-best, to be sure, but it's all we have at present. Many of us have met face-to-face, and I hope those opportunities will continue to arise in the future. A good gathering place is at Choctaw-Fair coming up in Mississippi in July. I hope all who can, will attend. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: <rusty-old-car@webtv.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:31 AM Subject: [CHAHTA] Spirituality and religion > We are all born with this deep seeded spirituality in our hearts but in > a society such as ours it seems to take a lot introspect to bring it to > a realization. Contrary to the belief of some this knowledge was not > just given to the indian peoples though time may not have left us not as > far removed as others it is universal knowledge. Every woman, every man, > are our sisters and brothers although we may not always agree (and we > may not want to claim them) they are ours all the same. Every plant, > every animal, they are our relatives (consider them distant cousins if > one would prefer) but we are related. > Now, it seems that in Christianity "God created everything" Then would > it not also be true in christianity that we are all related? I am told > that in the bible it also says man is "master" of all that is created. > True that would put us right at the top but was that meant to say "man > should do as he pleases" the word seems to imply a great responsibility > to me. To be a true master of all would one not have to also be a > steward to all. To take without asking and without giving thanks for > what is received would seem to me to be thievery. > The question was asked does an animal running away from a hunter give up > its life to the hunter and require to be thanked? Let me answer the > question in this way the creator saw that we hunt the deer, we shoot the > deer, (We evite friends over for beer and barbeque, whatever) The > creator could have saw to it that bullets and arrows bounced of the > dears and they walked over and kicked our a__ and ate us when the family > gathered for dinner. However, this is not the case and the deer runs. > The creator did not make things so whoever needed a snack could come > take a bite out of the deer either. The deer enjoys its life but it as > well as any animal knows that where it is in creation and so the bargain > of the hunt was struck. The deer says "if you are cleaver enough my life > falls into your hands to do with as you please if you fail to be so > cleaver then my life is my on and perhaps you should dig for roots or > something a little more your speed my friend. > A person gives thanks to an animal when it gives its life because it > would be plain rude if one did not. And on such a great sacrifice the > animal makes the absolute least one could do is be respectful. > Personally, I think spirituality is best discussed person to person. Why > I am putting my thoughts in now I could only guess as a lack of > judgement. > > rusty > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. >

Halito, Elkdreamer God certainly punished offenders prior to the "Law of Moses", ie The Flood and Sodom. I think maybe he was more of a contemporary of Abraham but your assumption is as good as mine. Colin -----Original Message----- From: Elkdreamer Wilkins [mailto:elkdremr@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 9:24 AM To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION Halito Colin I assume after the Law of Moses because there is mention of men of different citys or sect asking him question about why he was excepting the punishment's from his God. It has been some years since I have read the bible I had to look that up in my grandsons to be sure that I had the right info. Because I was pretty sure but not positive if my memory of it was correct. Walk in Beauty Elkdreamer >From: Colin Kelley <CKELLEY@swpa.gov> >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: RE: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION >Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 08:07:41 -0500 > >Halito, Elkdreamer >I guess I got lost about the point somewhere. If Job accepted it, was he >not willing? I see what you meant anyway. By the way, when did Job live? >Before or after the Law was given? > Colin Kelley > >-----Original Message----- >From: Elkdreamer Wilkins [mailto:elkdremr@hotmail.com] >Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 9:06 PM >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: RE: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > >Halito Colin >The thing about Job is every thing that happen to him was not a sacrifice >it > >was a test of his god. He accepted it but he was not a wllling participent. >Read Job 16-7 . > Walk in Beauty > Elkdreamer > > > >From: Colin Kelley <CKELLEY@swpa.gov> > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: RE: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > >Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 13:39:26 -0500 > > > >Did Job sacrifice a son? > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Patsy Caleb [mailto:studentarchaeologist@home.com] > >Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 12:11 PM > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > >The original "Thou Shalt not kill" reads "Thou shalt not kill without a > >reason" from the Lost Books of the Bible and forgotten Books of Eden" > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Jim Morrison, Jr. <jmorsn@coastalnet.com> > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 10:16 PM > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > > What "animal" gives its life freely to death? > > > The ONLY one that could is MAN (human). And even MAN does not do so > > > hesitation. Could you honestly take a child of YOUR'S and kill the >child > >as > > > an offering? For whatever the "rewards" that were promised. Could you? > > > When did Job sacarafice is son? Before or after the 10 Commandments >were > > > writen? Why? Isn't one of the Commandments "Thous Shall Not Kill"? > > > Jim > > > > > > jmorsn@coastalnet.com > > > http://www2.coastalnet.com/~g7d3j4nb/ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 7:12 AM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > > > > > good question > > > > I think that the statement, offering of his life could be > >considered > >to > > > > be like Job in the Bible he really didn't do it willing but when he > >did > > > God > > > > blessed him. Kind of like the warrior does giving thanks to the > >animal's > > > > spirit so he could feed his family. > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > >Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 09:27:28 -0500 > > > > > > > > > >I have one question here just for clarification. It doesn't mean >I'm > > > > >challenging your statement, it just means I have a question, OK? >If > >the > > > > >animal is giving an offering of it's life, why does it run away? > > > > > > > > > >dusty > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > >From: Elkdreamer Wilkins <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > >Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 5:19 AM > > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Jim > > > > > > #1 question > > > > > > Another word for the supreme being > > > > > > #2 the offering of its life > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Jim Morrison, Jr." <jmorsn@coastalnet.com> > > > > > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > >Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 01:23:34 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Two quick questions: > > > > > > >1) Who is "Grand Father"? > > > > > > >2) The ANIMAL is giving an offering when IT is killed? > > > > > > >Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > > >jmorsn@coastalnet.com > > > > > > >http://www2.coastalnet.com/~g7d3j4nb/ > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > >From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > >Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 10:36 PM > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Dennis > > > > > > > > I am sorry if I offended you in anyway. My intrest is in >all > > > > >things > > > > > > > > Choctaw. and Spirituality is one of the aspects of it. To > > > understand > > > > > > >Indian > > > > > > > > people you have to dig deep into their thought pattern. When > >they > > > > >killed > > > > > > > > animals for food and clothing they said a prayer To > >Grandfather > > > for > > > > >the > > > > > > > > offering that the animal gave and gave respect to the animal > >also. > > > > >When > > > > > > >they > > > > > > > > did beadwork they put part of their spirit in it also. when >a > > > object > > > > >was > > > > > > > > discarded it was done with respect. Spirtuality was >considered > >in > > > > >all > > > > > > >things > > > > > > > > done. That is one of the reasons that the Europeans that >came > >here > > > > > > > > misunderstood our people and their ways. > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Dennis Boswell <dennisb@primenet.com> > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > > > >Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 09:56:57 -0800 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Message for Elkdreamer and Dusty: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Regarding who subscribes to CHAHTA-L and why, permit me to > > > suggest > > > > >that > > > > > > > > >this list very likely has Choctaw and non-Choctaw > >subscribers. > > > > >Among > > > > > > >both > > > > > > > > >groups, there are those who have an exclusive interest in > > > religion > > > > >all > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > >way to those who have an exclusive interest in some other > >aspect > > > of > > > > > > >Choctaw > > > > > > > > >life but no interest at all in religion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >In my case, I find Choctaw religious beliefs and the recent > > > > >discussion > > > > > > > > >surrounding them educational and thought provoking. >However, > >my > > > > > > >personal > > > > > > > > >interest does not directly concern Choctaw religion. It is > >very > > > > >narrow > > > > > > >and > > > > > > > > >concerns central Mississippi, pre-removal Choctaw social >and > > > family > > > > > > > > >customs, very narrowly defined examples of the Choctaw > >language > > > as > > > > > > >about > > > > > > > > >1800, relationships with early white settlers, trails and > >paths > > > > > > >followed > > > > > > >by > > > > > > > > >these Choctaw in relationship to today's central >Mississippi > > > county > > > > > > > > >boundaries and the impact of removal on these same Choctaw > >with > > > > > > >specific > > > > > > > > >emphasis on the Durant Choctaw clan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >If I unsubscribe, which I will do one day (to return at a > >later > > > > >date), > > > > > > >it > > > > > > > > >will have nothing to do with whether I do or do not "learn > >other > > > > > > >religious > > > > > > > > >views," "heat in the kitchen" or "sensitive subjects." It > >will > > > have > > > > > > > > >everything to do with the fact that I subscribe to about > > > > >thirty-five > > > > > > >lists, > > > > > > > > >receive mountains of email and have priorities on my time >and > >my > > > > > > >interests > > > > > > > > >that are quite different than anyone else on this list - a > > > comment > > > > >that > > > > > > > > >about everyone of you can make. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Recognize that one of the wonderful aspects of CHAHTA-L (in > > > > >comparison > > > > > > >with > > > > > > > > >virtually all na hollo lists) is the diversity of thought, > > > > >background, > > > > > > > > >education and perspective it offers. Were I to make one > > > suggestion > > > > >to > > > > > > >those > > > > > > > > >of you who clearly dominate this list, please guard against > > > > >becoming > > > > > > >too > > > > > > > > >clannish lest the very diversity that enriches this site > >might > >in > > > > >time > > > > > > > > >vanish leaving something less in its wake than you enjoy > >today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >At 08:50 AM 03/31/2001 -0800, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >>Halito Dusty and All list members > > > > > > > > >> I believe that we all have the right to believe in the >way > > > that > > > > >we > > > > > > >want > > > > > > > > >>to. And in this aspect the right to discuss our and each > >others > > > > >views > > > > > > >in > > > > > > > > >>a intellegent and Adult way. Aparentlly the ones that left > >will > > > in > > > > >no > > > > > > >way > > > > > > > > >>ever learn that there are other views than their own. Like >I > > > have > > > > > > >always > > > > > > > > >>been told if you can't stand the heat get out of the > >kitchen. > >I > > > > >guess > > > > > > > > >>that is what they did. Lets keep up the heat I'm having >fun. > > > > > > > > >> Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > >> Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >>>From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > > > > >>>Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > >>>To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > >>>Subject: [CHAHTA] TOPIC OF RELIGION > > > > > > > > >>>Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 09:38:58 -0600 > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>>We lost another 5 listmembers this morning. Don't know >for > > > what > > > > > > >reason. > > > > > > > > >>>While I suspect sensitive subject matter may be the >reason, > > > this > > > > >is > > > > > > >only > > > > > > > > >>>a > > > > > > > > >>>supposition on my part. I have absolutely no objection >to > >the > > > > >topic > > > > > > > > >>>continuing if that's what you guys want. Among other > > > > >peculiarities > > > > > > >and > > > > > > > > >>>character faults, I happen to wholeheartedly support the > >First > > > > > > >Amendment > > > > > > > > >>>on > > > > > > > > >>>this particular topic. What do you guys think?? > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>>dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > >Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > > > > > >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > >http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't >post > >it > > > to > > > > >the > > > > > > >list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > > > > > > >CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > >Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > > > >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at >http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > >Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > > > >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the >quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > >Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > >http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > >To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > >Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: >Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com

Yokoke Dusty *S* >From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies >Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 10:04:51 -0500 > >Yes Sonja, the white buffalo has come. Welcome to our circle and please >continue your input. > >dusty >----- Original Message ----- >From: Sonja Tashman <sonja_tashman@hotmail.com> >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 4:22 AM >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > Halito to all, > > Maybe I am wrong and I am sure I will be corrected if so LOL, but it >seems > > to me that in a round about way the prophecy of the Indian people once >again > > getting back all that belonged to them may, in a way, involve not the >actual > > possession of material possessions, but getting back to the old ways and > > beliefs? And if this may be true, then would it not matter that the >Nations > > be full bloods or mixed bloods? Again I say I may be wrong and fully > > prepared to be so but, I only know that even though I may be lighter >than > > most full bloods, my blood, heart and soul is the same as all my >relations > > from generations back. > > > > Sonja > > > > > > >From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 19:36:28 -0700 > > > > > >Halito Barbara, Gemma And Dusty > > > Last night I was talking to my nephew about the problem that we are > > >having > > >of our kids getting involved with gangs and such. I was looking back on >my > > >life and the road that I took and tried to explain why It took that >course. > > >In my experience I believe Indian people have a innerself that needs to >be > > >a > > >part of a tribe, this is our makeup our genetic being and our ancestors > > >survival trait. In this day and age a lot of us being removed from the > > >tribal closeness that were searching for took a lot of different roads. > > >Luckly some of us finally found the Red road and are coming back to the > > >home > > >fires of our people. > > > When the rest finally find their way back we need to be there to help > > >them. > > > For seven generations > > > Walk in Beauty > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > >>From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > >>Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > >>To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > >>Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > >>Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:01:33 -0500 > > >> > > >>Those who have grown up in Indian communities but seem to have no > > >>knowledge > > >>of their own spirituality are still aware of something inside that is > > >>different, even if they don't know what it is.(Because of the thick > > >>assimilation) > > >>And it is my hope that more of our people will recognise that we are >not > > >>"second class" and that our spirituality is not just a matter of > > >>"beliefs", > > >>and that it is not "inferior" to the spirituality any other race of > > >>people...It is also my hope that those non-Indians who can learn a >better > > >>way of living in balance from Indians, or whoever, will do so... > > >>B. > > >>----- Original Message ----- > > >>From: "Gemma West" <gemmawest@usa.net> > > >>To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > >>Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:35 PM > > >>Subject: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > >> > > >> > > >> > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > > >>trying > > >>to > > >> > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit >in. > > >> > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions >of > > >>good > > >> > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look >to > > >>their > > >> > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. >It > > >>is > > >> > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. >It > > >>is > > >> > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing >is > > >>that > > >> > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > > >>Indians > > >>and > > >> > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is >finding > > >>the > > >>few > > >> > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > >> > > > >> > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it >causes > > >>us > > >>to > > >> > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they >here >to > > >>get? > > >> > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about >this > > >>reverse > > >> > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our >own > > >> > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live >with. > > >>This > > >> > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. >If > > >>we > > >>can > > >> > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great >thing. > > >>After > > >> > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world > > >>shaped > > >>by > > >> > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > > >>balance. > > >>It > > >> > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > >> > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we > > >>went > > >>to > > >> > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born >in >us > > >> > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a > > >>white > > >> > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, >but > > >>they > > >> > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to >put > > >> > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at >best > > >> > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > >> > B. > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > > >> > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > >> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > >> > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > >> > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to >everyone's > > >> > slings > > >> > > and arrows... > > >> > > > > >> > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just >think > > >>our > > >> > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've >had > > >> > countless > > >> > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as >long >as > > >>it's > > >> > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because >it > > >>works > > >> > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a >derogatory > > >>name. > > >> > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do >so. > > >> > > > > >> > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? >Isn't > > >>that > > >> > > TRUE racism? > > >> > > > > >> > > dusty > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > >> > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > >> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > >> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > >> > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > >> > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > >> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > >> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > >> > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Halito Fay > > >> > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian >blood > > >>at > > >> > all > > >> > > > > Walk in Beauty > > >> > > > > Elkdreamer > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > >> > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > >> > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > >> > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > >>quotes > > >> > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > >> > > Choctaw Home Page: > > >> > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > >> > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > >> > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > >____________________________________________________________________ > > >> > Get free email and a permanent address at > > >>http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > >> > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > >> > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > >> > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the >quotes > > >> > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >>==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > >>Choctaw Home Page: > > >>http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > >> > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > >TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > >Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the >quotes > > >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: >Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Yes, Dennis. There are certainly many Choctaws amongst those people. Dennis Boswell <dennisb@primenet.com> wrote: If I may ask, who might "those" be? Are there Choctaws included in "those?" At 09:59 PM 04/05/2001 -0500, you wrote: >I agree with everything you say. Unfortunately, there are those who do not >want us back. They reject us as having been "tainted" by too much white >blood, too much white ideas, and a million other excuses. > >dusty >----- Original Message ----- >From: Elkdreamer Wilkins <elkdremr@hotmail.com> >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 9:36 PM >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > Halito Barbara, Gemma And Dusty > > Last night I was talking to my nephew about the problem that we are >having > > of our kids getting involved with gangs and such. I was looking back on my > > life and the road that I took and tried to explain why It took that >course. > > In my experience I believe Indian people have a innerself that needs to be >a > > part of a tribe, this is our makeup our genetic being and our ancestors > > survival trait. In this day and age a lot of us being removed from the > > tribal closeness that were searching for took a lot of different roads. > > Luckly some of us finally found the Red road and are coming back to the >home > > fires of our people. > > When the rest finally find their way back we need to be there to help > > them. > > For seven generations > > Walk in Beauty > > Elkdreamer > > > > >From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:01:33 -0500 > > > > > >Those who have grown up in Indian communities but seem to have no >knowledge > > >of their own spirituality are still aware of something inside that is > > >different, even if they don't know what it is.(Because of the thick > > >assimilation) > > >And it is my hope that more of our people will recognise that we are not > > >"second class" and that our spirituality is not just a matter of >"beliefs", > > >and that it is not "inferior" to the spirituality any other race of > > >people...It is also my hope that those non-Indians who can learn a better > > >way of living in balance from Indians, or whoever, will do so... > > >B. > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Gemma West" <gemmawest@usa.net> > > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > >Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:35 PM > > >Subject: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > > >trying > > >to > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit in. > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions of > > >good > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look to > > >their > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. It >is > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. >It > > >is > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing is > > >that > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > > >Indians > > >and > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is finding > > >the > > >few > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it causes >us > > >to > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they here >to > > >get? > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about this > > >reverse > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our own > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live with. > > >This > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. If >we > > >can > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great thing. > > >After > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world >shaped > > >by > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > > >balance. > > >It > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we >went > > >to > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in >us > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a >white > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, >but > > >they > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to >put > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at >best > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > B. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to everyone's > > > > slings > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think > > >our > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > > > > countless > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long >as > > >it's > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because it > > >works > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a derogatory > > >name. > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? >Isn't > > >that > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian >blood > > >at > > > > all > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > >quotes > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at >http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > >Choctaw Home Page: > > >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the >list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at >CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com Regards, Dennis K. Boswell 301 Crow Canyon Drive Folsom, CA 95630 Tel: (916) 987-3599 Fax: (916) 987-3555 ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1

I wonder who will be entertaining at Choctaw Fair? Does it say? They usually have a different concert each night. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: faynshep <faynshep@telapex.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 2:34 AM Subject: [CHAHTA] Silver Star Casino at Philadelphia > These guys are up-town. Lori Morgan is coming on the 7th and Wynonna is > coming on the 21st. > Fay > Don't ever give up.!!!! > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/gedcoms/ratcliff/ > List owner HOLDEN-L, SCHIFANO-L > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

My pooter has two buttons. One for "reply" and one for "reply to all". If I hit "reply" it goes only to the person who sent the message. If I hit "reply to all", it goes to the whole list. I can't say why yours is doing what it's doing. Gremlins?? dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Choctaw <choctaw@bscn.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 12:34 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Question for Dusty > I noticed that when I reply to a post from Tsana that it was showing that it > was going directly to her and not to the Chahta-L, but any of the other > posts that I reply to go to the rootsweb.com address. I noticed this and so > I have been replying to Tsana's posts by hitting reply on one of the other > posts and then changing the subject line. Do you know why this is happening > or what I might be doing wrong? > Yokoke, > Shelley > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. >

There are many opinions as to where the term "indian" came from. I personally like the one that says the Spanish used the term "in Dios" to refer to the natives they found on this continent. They were a people "in Dois"....."in God". I like that. The world "Indian" does not offend me. I've heard it and used it all my life and I'm too old to break an old habit now. However, when I go into the schools I do remind the children that there are those now who are offended by the word, and for them to start the habit of referring to native people as "Native Americans" or "American Indians". dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Choctaw <choctaw@bscn.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 11:57 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > A Native American is anyone who is born in American. Personally, I think we > call ourselves indians without second thought, but when someone else does, > we think they are referring to someone from India. Sort of like blacks > who don't mind being called "nigger" by each other, but are offended if > anyone else calls them that. > I THINK that the term Native American is the "politically correct" name > right now, although most "indians" prefer American Indian. > Speaking for myself, I think I prefer Indian or American Indian, of the > three, but I would really rather just be call Choctaw. > I remember being probably four or five years old and learning that I was > Choctaw. We at the time happened to live on Choctaw St. and I of course > felt there was a reason for that and it was cause I lived there LOL We had > a neighbor who had a bumper sticker on her car that said "Cherokee and Proud > of it" I remember wanting a car just so I could put a Choctaw sticker on > it. I can say that I am 37 yrs old and have a bumper sticker on my car that > says "Proud to be Choctaw". I also remember that I said I would marry an > indian and my kids would "show" their indian more than I do. We all know > that doesn't always work, but it does tell me that at a very early age I > knew I was more indian inside than I looked on the outside. > When I've been asked if I could go back in time or be anyone, I have always > thought/said that I would want to be a Choctaw woman in the late 1700s, > just so I could learn the old ways before the foreign influences on the > tribe. > Ok, getting off my soapbox. Notice I say nothing or very little, then I > just start ranting? LOL? > Yokoke > Shelley > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. >

As one who does several hundred lookups per week....I can't BELIEVE IT! dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: faynshep <faynshep@telapex.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:55 AM Subject: [CHAHTA] Don't ever do this !!!!! > Query: > "I lost contact with the Indian side of my family. So I dont know any > names." > > I am not joking, this is an actual and complete query. Not one other piece > of information was given. > Fay > > > > Don't ever give up.!!!! > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/gedcoms/ratcliff/ > List owner HOLDEN-L, SCHIFANO-L > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Choctaw Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ >

I had one like that when I was a kid. Apparently, warts do come back. I had mine frozen, but it regrew. It was on the bottom of my foot (plantar wart), but one day after months of not being able to walk without pain, I took off my sock and the darn thing had just finally grown out and fallen off. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Tsa na Jordan <medicgirl78@yahoo.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 11:36 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Re: buying warts > Well, Dusty, how much time do I have to give it? I've had one now for over > 10 years! Several doctors have tried several things to remove it > (chemicals, cutting out, freezing it) and it always comes back. It never > gets any bigger or smaller, just is always there. They've diagnosed it as a > wart. I don't know - I think I'll try to auction it to the highest bidder! > LOL! > Take care ya'll - I'm going to sell my wart! Not making fun - I'm serious! > Tsana > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 3:08 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Re: buying warts > > > > My Choctaw grandmother used to do something with a knife and a telephone > > pole (don't laugh, I'm serious!) for warts. I can't remember what the > > exact ritual was. It had something to do with the creosote that > telephone > > poles are soaked in, and of course it ALWAYS worked. And I remember she > > used to tell me that you had to BELIEVE it would work for it to work. > > > > I now know the reason it always worked is because warts are caused by > > viruses, and are temporary lesions. They will always go away if given > > enought time. > > > > dusty > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Choctaw <choctaw@bscn.com> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 2:29 AM > > Subject: [CHAHTA] Re: buying warts > > > > > > > Tsana, > > > When I was about 7 or 8 yr old, I had a wart come up on my hand. My > > > Granny, gave me a penny (I think it was a penny, might have been a dime) > > to > > > buy it from me. She laid the coin on my wart and then handed it to me > and > > > told me I had to spend it, which I promptly did, for probably some gum > or > > > something. The wart went away and I have a little scar where it used to > > be, > > > to this day. > > > A couple of years ago, my son had a wart come up on his head, just > > > behind his hairline. I bought it from him, and then after a couple of > > days > > > I asked him how MY wart was, I looked at it and it was smaller. In less > > > than two weeks the wart was gone. > > > My husband had a place on his collarbone for a couple of years, it > > > looked like a cross between a wart and a mole but almost as big around > as > > a > > > quarter. He asked the doctor about it and they did a biopsy, and told > him > > it > > > was nothing to worry about, just keep an eye on it. So, I bought it > from > > > him about 6 mo. or so ago. A couple of months ago, he was shaving > without > > a > > > shirt on and noticed in the mirror that it was gone and yelled for me to > > > come look. He said, "look at this", and I said "look at what?" and he > > > smiled and said "exactly, YOUR wart is gone" > > > My daughter has a wart on her knee that I've bought twice that > refuses > > > to go away. I'm not sure if it's because she doesn't think it will or > > what, > > > I guess I have to convince her it's mine and she can't have it anymore. > I > > > haven't checked lately, but I'll check tomorrow and see if she still has > > it. > > > I just wondered if this was something that my Granny taught me that > > > might be Chahta in origin. I'll ask her when I get the chance, although > > I'm > > > sure she'll say "I don't know where I learned it, it just works" LOL > > > Shelley > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

In order to qualify for enrollment in the Mississippi Band of Choctaw, one must have 1/2 or more blood quantum, plus meet age requirements. You have to enroll before age 18 I believe. Their stringent blood quantum requirements pretty well excludes anyone who ever left the community, as was its intention. They used the 1940 Mississippi census when they established their base roll. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Kim Collins <2buckets@arbuckleonline.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 11:32 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > The Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma accepts all who can trace their lineage to an > original enrollee ( and who have a CDIB) of the Choctaw roll regardless of > blood quantum. > I personally prefer American Indian as any one born in the US is NA. Don't > profess to know what the Choctaw nation of OK thinks about the term though. > Yes the Choctaw have had dealings and inter marriages with Europeans for > many years. Many great chiefs were of mixed blood. > I do believe that MS Choctaw have a more stringent requirement for tribal > membership but I am not sure. > Perhaps there is some one on the list who can supply you a better answer. > Kim > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Chata1507@aol.com> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 9:46 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > I have been told that the Choctaw Nation prefers the term Indian over > native > > American since anyone born in America is also a native American. This > makes > > sense to me. However, each nation has their own opinion. In addition I > > think it's what ever you are comfortable with. > > > > On a previous question. In Minnesota the tribes historically accepted > > persons into tribe who basically moved in with them, became community > > supporters and identified with the tribe and its goals. This included > > captives who were adopted. Friends on various reservations in Minnesota > also > > chuckle at the concept of full blood because over the years of euro > contact > > who can really know blood genetics. For example Crazy Horse was light > haired > > and blue eyed according to a Lakota friend. The Mandans have many with > light > > eyes and hair. > > > > Look at the pictures of a lot of the old Choctaw and you see euro > influence. > > The Choctaw have had contact since they ran De Soto out in the early > 1500s. > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

I can tell you what family members are listed on the same census card, sometimes helping people to recognize if a name is their ancestor or not. Seems to me like I have been told you can do this over the phone with credit card. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: faynshep <faynshep@telapex.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:14 AM Subject: [CHAHTA] Dawes info.? > Dusty, Can you order a packet over the phone and pay with a credit card? > I have a name, age, census number, and roll number. Is there any more info. > on what you have? > Fay > Don't ever give up.!!!! > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/gedcoms/ratcliff/ > List owner HOLDEN-L, SCHIFANO-L > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

Yes, unfortunately, I have personally known Choctaws who fit into this category. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Boswell <dennisb@primenet.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:45 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > If I may ask, who might "those" be? Are there Choctaws included in "those?" > > > At 09:59 PM 04/05/2001 -0500, you wrote: > >I agree with everything you say. Unfortunately, there are those who do not > >want us back. They reject us as having been "tainted" by too much white > >blood, too much white ideas, and a million other excuses. > > > >dusty > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Elkdreamer Wilkins <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 9:36 PM > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > Halito Barbara, Gemma And Dusty > > > Last night I was talking to my nephew about the problem that we are > >having > > > of our kids getting involved with gangs and such. I was looking back on my > > > life and the road that I took and tried to explain why It took that > >course. > > > In my experience I believe Indian people have a innerself that needs to be > >a > > > part of a tribe, this is our makeup our genetic being and our ancestors > > > survival trait. In this day and age a lot of us being removed from the > > > tribal closeness that were searching for took a lot of different roads. > > > Luckly some of us finally found the Red road and are coming back to the > >home > > > fires of our people. > > > When the rest finally find their way back we need to be there to help > > > them. > > > For seven generations > > > Walk in Beauty > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > >From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:01:33 -0500 > > > > > > > >Those who have grown up in Indian communities but seem to have no > >knowledge > > > >of their own spirituality are still aware of something inside that is > > > >different, even if they don't know what it is.(Because of the thick > > > >assimilation) > > > >And it is my hope that more of our people will recognise that we are not > > > >"second class" and that our spirituality is not just a matter of > >"beliefs", > > > >and that it is not "inferior" to the spirituality any other race of > > > >people...It is also my hope that those non-Indians who can learn a better > > > >way of living in balance from Indians, or whoever, will do so... > > > >B. > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Gemma West" <gemmawest@usa.net> > > > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:35 PM > > > >Subject: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > > > >trying > > > >to > > > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit in. > > > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions of > > > >good > > > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look to > > > >their > > > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. It > >is > > > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. > >It > > > >is > > > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing is > > > >that > > > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > > > >Indians > > > >and > > > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is finding > > > >the > > > >few > > > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it causes > >us > > > >to > > > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they here > >to > > > >get? > > > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about this > > > >reverse > > > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our own > > > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live with. > > > >This > > > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. If > >we > > > >can > > > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great thing. > > > >After > > > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world > >shaped > > > >by > > > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > > > >balance. > > > >It > > > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we > >went > > > >to > > > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in > >us > > > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a > >white > > > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, > >but > > > >they > > > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to > >put > > > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at > >best > > > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > > B. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to everyone's > > > > > slings > > > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think > > > >our > > > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > > > > > countless > > > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long > >as > > > >it's > > > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because it > > > >works > > > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a derogatory > > > >name. > > > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? > >Isn't > > > >that > > > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian > >blood > > > >at > > > > > all > > > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > > >quotes > > > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > Get free email and a permanent address at > >http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > >Choctaw Home Page: > > > >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > >Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the > >list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at > >CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > > > Regards, > > Dennis K. Boswell > 301 Crow Canyon Drive > Folsom, CA 95630 > > Tel: (916) 987-3599 > Fax: (916) 987-3555 > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ >

Would like to have seen that, Arla. I would imagine Cenise Abbey is kin to Mr. Bell Abbey who I had the pleasure of knowing. Fine old, honored Coushatta gentleman. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:22 PM Subject: [CHAHTA] Chata Baskets > > > I got to go to Philbrook Museum in Tulsa today to view a basket exhibit. > It had baskets from the early part of the century. I saw Chata baskets, a > bullnose or cow nose basket done by Fannie Battiest and a larger basket by > Mariella Johnson.I was thrilled when I looked at them.They are baskets I > do.A wonderful sense of connection came over me standing there looking at > those baskets woven in the first half of the last century.They were > beautiful and still useful. > I hope that in a hundred years someone picks up one of my baskets and > wonders who the Chata Ohoyo was who made it. > There was also a Coushatta basket by Cinsie Abbey... > The weaver in me was in pure heaven.If any of you have a chance or are > close enough to Tulsa to go, it is worth it. > Arla > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

Personally I prefer "indiginous Peoples", but I can never remember that word or how to spell it, so I guess I'll just be a Choctaw. Colin Kelley -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Boswell [mailto:dennisb@primenet.com] Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 8:55 PM To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies Dusty, did you mean to say "Indian" or should the question have read, "What is a Native American?" At 08:29 PM 04/05/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Gemma and all: > >I am intrigued and challenged by your question, "Does the community still >exist." I have pondered this question for many years and under many >different circumstances., and would like to get some feedback from other >listmembers. > >What is the state of the Indian community today..... >Specifically, WHAT IS AN INDIAN? Is it a matter of blood quantum? >Lifestyle? Beliefs? > >There can be no argument that there is definite predjudice among NA as to >"who is Indian" and who is not. There are "skins" and there are "bloods". >Why the separation? What does it take to be considered "Indian enough". >Are some NAs practicing a racism they would decry in other races.? Don't >quote me the government's definition of Indian, I'm well aware of that. > >I want the opinions of others on this list. > >dusty > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: David and Tommie Marsters <haili65@proaxis.com> >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:30 PM >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > Well put, Gemma. I agree. > > Tommie > > > > Gemma West wrote: > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life >trying to > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit in. > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions of >good > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look to >their > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. It is > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. It >is > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing is >that > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around >Indians and > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is finding >the few > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it causes us >to > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they here to >get? > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about this >reverse > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our own > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live with. >This > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. If we >can > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great thing. >After > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world shaped >by > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of >balance. It > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we went >to > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in us > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a white > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, but >they > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to put > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at best > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > B. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to everyone's > > > slings > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think >our > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > > > countless > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long as >it's > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because it >works > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a derogatory >name. > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? Isn't >that > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian blood >at > > > all > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the >quotes > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: >http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ Regards, Dennis K. Boswell 301 Crow Canyon Drive Folsom, CA 95630 Tel: (916) 987-3599 Fax: (916) 987-3555 ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== Choctaw Home Page: http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/