Im still going through a lot. ----- Original Message ----- From: Linda Branum <mamalin@1s.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Re: THANKS TO OUR ANCESTORS > I think thats awful but our ancestors sure went thru a lot for us. Let's > all praise them for their efforts. > I'm not sure I could have made it but I would have given it all my might > for my children and grands. > Regards, Linda > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Amarya@aol.com> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 5:40 PM > Subject: [CHAHTA] Re: CHAHTA-D Digest V01 #197 > > > > In a message dated 4/6/01 12:37:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > CHAHTA-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: > > > > > > > There are many Indian's who didn't enroll as NA so the goverment > wouldn't > > > get into their business. I am sure thats why lots of the ones who can't > find > > > any documentation can't find that. I also heard that in some places if > you > > > were NA and told you were 1/2 or more blood that the goverment said that > you > > > had to have a white person take care of your business. Has anyone else > heard > > > this? > > > > > > > Yes, that was true. My Choctaw grandmother had to get permission to > handle > > her own land!!! Mary > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

AMEN!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "John & Arla Williams" <jaws@crosstel.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 5:21 PM Subject: [CHAHTA] Elder's Meditation of the Day > It seems My sister Tuti' has been reading my thoughts about the > conversations we have been having about family and community on this > list.She is way too good at it. haha Arla > > > > > "Everybody should pray together, cheer along, root along. That brings > > the circle together. Everything is together." > > --Wallace Black Elk, LAKOTA > > > > Life on the Earth can sometimes be very complicated. Sometimes we think > > we are alone in our problems. Sometime we even withdraw. Then the > > problems become even more difficult. We need to watch out for one > > another, to care for one another, to pray together, to encourage one > > another; and we need to support one another. Behaving in this manner > > will bring the circle together. > > > > > > Great Spirit, today, let me support my brothers and sisters. > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

I think thats awful but our ancestors sure went thru a lot for us. Let's all praise them for their efforts. I'm not sure I could have made it but I would have given it all my might for my children and grands. Regards, Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: <Amarya@aol.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 5:40 PM Subject: [CHAHTA] Re: CHAHTA-D Digest V01 #197 > In a message dated 4/6/01 12:37:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > CHAHTA-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: > > > > There are many Indian's who didn't enroll as NA so the goverment wouldn't > > get into their business. I am sure thats why lots of the ones who can't find > > any documentation can't find that. I also heard that in some places if you > > were NA and told you were 1/2 or more blood that the goverment said that you > > had to have a white person take care of your business. Has anyone else heard > > this? > > > > Yes, that was true. My Choctaw grandmother had to get permission to handle > her own land!!! Mary > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

http://www.spokane.net/news-story-body.asp?Date=032500&ID=s759145&cat= Perhaps "Medicine Wheel" is the calf you're thinking about that was killed. Looked and found an article. I'd recalled reading about it around a year ago. >We heard a rumor down here that she had been killed by an outsider, found >shot to death in her corral, but don't know if that's true or not. I >certainly hope not, but knowing the state of the country today I wouldn't be >surprised. That's all I know. Perhaps those closer to her or perhaps >someone who has visited her can add more.

It seems My sister Tuti' has been reading my thoughts about the conversations we have been having about family and community on this list.She is way too good at it. haha Arla > > "Everybody should pray together, cheer along, root along. That brings > the circle together. Everything is together." > --Wallace Black Elk, LAKOTA > > Life on the Earth can sometimes be very complicated. Sometimes we think > we are alone in our problems. Sometime we even withdraw. Then the > problems become even more difficult. We need to watch out for one > another, to care for one another, to pray together, to encourage one > another; and we need to support one another. Behaving in this manner > will bring the circle together. > > > Great Spirit, today, let me support my brothers and sisters. > >

Thanks so much Dusty, I know that lots of new ones might not have heard that wonderful story. For some reason I think I saw it on the Isaah one but I don't have that URL addy. Regards, Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] White Buffalo > Basically, it is an old prophecy given to the Lakotas and their brothers, > that White Buffalo Calf Woman, the spirit who gave them their pipe and other > sacraments, would return in the form of a white buffalo. When that happend, > the culture of the Indian people would again arise and native people would > again become the dominant culture/guiding force of this continent. > > There has been no female white buffalo born in the US since "Miracle", who > was born on a northern farm about 6-7 years ago (???). Can't remember what > state. There have been white male buffaloes, the last was seen in Yosemite > during the 30's I believe, but never a female. These are not albinos, as > they have dark eyes and hoofs, just an aborration of nature that crops up > rarely. > > It is my understanding that she has been recognized by the elders and > medicine people of the Lakotas as being the fulfillment of that prophecy. > I've not personally seen her, but the news that filters down to us is that > she is fulfilling prophecy by turning the four colors of man. She was born > white, then turned yellow, is now brown, but is expected to mature to a > black color. The farmer who owns her has made a place for those visiting > her and making offerings to do so. He has promised not to kill her. > > We heard a rumor down here that she had been killed by an outsider, found > shot to death in her corral, but don't know if that's true or not. I > certainly hope not, but knowing the state of the country today I wouldn't be > surprised. That's all I know. Perhaps those closer to her or perhaps > someone who has visited her can add more. > > dusty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Linda Branum <mamalin@1s.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:33 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] White Buffalo > > > > Dusty, > > Will you please explain the legend of the white buffalo to the new ones > on > > the list or give us a URL to go to that would explain it. I know the > legend > > but some might not. > > Thanks in advance. > > Regards, Linda Kirby Branum > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 10:04 AM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > Yes Sonja, the white buffalo has come. Welcome to our circle and please > > > continue your input. > > > > > > dusty > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Sonja Tashman <sonja_tashman@hotmail.com> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 4:22 AM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > Halito to all, > > > > Maybe I am wrong and I am sure I will be corrected if so LOL, but it > > seems > > > > to me that in a round about way the prophecy of the Indian people once > > > again > > > > getting back all that belonged to them may, in a way, involve not the > > > actual > > > > possession of material possessions, but getting back to the old ways > and > > > > beliefs? And if this may be true, then would it not matter that the > > > Nations > > > > be full bloods or mixed bloods? Again I say I may be wrong and fully > > > > prepared to be so but, I only know that even though I may be lighter > > than > > > > most full bloods, my blood, heart and soul is the same as all my > > > relations > > > > from generations back. > > > > > > > > Sonja > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 19:36:28 -0700 > > > > > > > > > >Halito Barbara, Gemma And Dusty > > > > > Last night I was talking to my nephew about the problem that we are > > > > >having > > > > >of our kids getting involved with gangs and such. I was looking back > on > > > my > > > > >life and the road that I took and tried to explain why It took that > > > course. > > > > >In my experience I believe Indian people have a innerself that needs > to > > > be > > > > >a > > > > >part of a tribe, this is our makeup our genetic being and our > ancestors > > > > >survival trait. In this day and age a lot of us being removed from > the > > > > >tribal closeness that were searching for took a lot of different > roads. > > > > >Luckly some of us finally found the Red road and are coming back to > the > > > > >home > > > > >fires of our people. > > > > > When the rest finally find their way back we need to be there to > help > > > > >them. > > > > > For seven generations > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > >>From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > > > >>Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > >>To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > >>Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > >>Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:01:33 -0500 > > > > >> > > > > >>Those who have grown up in Indian communities but seem to have no > > > > >>knowledge > > > > >>of their own spirituality are still aware of something inside that > is > > > > >>different, even if they don't know what it is.(Because of the thick > > > > >>assimilation) > > > > >>And it is my hope that more of our people will recognise that we are > > not > > > > >>"second class" and that our spirituality is not just a matter of > > > > >>"beliefs", > > > > >>and that it is not "inferior" to the spirituality any other race of > > > > >>people...It is also my hope that those non-Indians who can learn a > > > better > > > > >>way of living in balance from Indians, or whoever, will do so... > > > > >>B. > > > > >>----- Original Message ----- > > > > >>From: "Gemma West" <gemmawest@usa.net> > > > > >>To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > >>Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:35 PM > > > > >>Subject: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > What has happened for many people is that they wander through > life > > > > >>trying > > > > >>to > > > > >> > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't > fit > > > in. > > > > >> > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's > defintions > > > of > > > > >>good > > > > >> > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to > look > > > to > > > > >>their > > > > >> > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. > > It > > > > >>is > > > > >> > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological > characteristics. > > > It > > > > >>is > > > > >> > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad > thing > > > is > > > > >>that > > > > >> > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up > around > > > > >>Indians > > > > >>and > > > > >> > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is > > finding > > > > >>the > > > > >>few > > > > >> > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it > > causes > > > > >>us > > > > >>to > > > > >> > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they > > here > > > to > > > > >>get? > > > > >> > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about > > this > > > > >>reverse > > > > >> > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our > > own > > > > >> > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live > > > with. > > > > >>This > > > > >> > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. > > If > > > > >>we > > > > >>can > > > > >> > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great > > thing. > > > > >>After > > > > >> > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world > > > > >>shaped > > > > >>by > > > > >> > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > > > > >>balance. > > > > >>It > > > > >> > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > >> > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something > we > > > > >>went > > > > >>to > > > > >> > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born > > in > > > us > > > > >> > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by > a > > > > >>white > > > > >> > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some > things, > > > but > > > > >>they > > > > >> > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts > to > > > put > > > > >> > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is > at > > > best > > > > >> > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > >> > B. > > > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > >> > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > >> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > >> > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > >> > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > > > everyone's > > > > >> > slings > > > > >> > > and arrows... > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just > > think > > > > >>our > > > > >> > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've > > had > > > > >> > countless > > > > >> > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as > > long > > > as > > > > >>it's > > > > >> > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways > because > > > it > > > > >>works > > > > >> > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > > derogatory > > > > >>name. > > > > >> > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do > > so. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? > > > Isn't > > > > >>that > > > > >> > > TRUE racism? > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > dusty > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > >> > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > >> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > >> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > >> > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > >> > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > >> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > >> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > >> > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Halito Fay > > > > >> > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian > > > blood > > > > >>at > > > > >> > all > > > > >> > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > >> > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > >> > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > >> > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > >> > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without > the > > > > >>quotes > > > > >> > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > >> > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > >> > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > >> > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > >> > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > >> > Get free email and a permanent address at > > > > >>http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > >> > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > >> > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > >> > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > > quotes > > > > >> > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > >>Choctaw Home Page: > > > > >>http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > >TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > > >Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the > > quotes > > > > >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

A-ho All my Relations Walk in Beauty Elkdreamer >From: "Linda Branum" <mamalin@1s.net> >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elder's Meditation of the Day >Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 17:59:54 -0500 > >AMEN!!! >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John & Arla Williams" <jaws@crosstel.net> >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 5:21 PM >Subject: [CHAHTA] Elder's Meditation of the Day > > > > It seems My sister Tuti' has been reading my thoughts about the > > conversations we have been having about family and community on this > > list.She is way too good at it. haha Arla > > > > > > > > "Everybody should pray together, cheer along, root along. That brings > > > the circle together. Everything is together." > > > --Wallace Black Elk, LAKOTA > > > > > > Life on the Earth can sometimes be very complicated. Sometimes we >think > > > we are alone in our problems. Sometime we even withdraw. Then the > > > problems become even more difficult. We need to watch out for one > > > another, to care for one another, to pray together, to encourage one > > > another; and we need to support one another. Behaving in this manner > > > will bring the circle together. > > > > > > > > > Great Spirit, today, let me support my brothers and sisters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >Got a GRIPE?? Got a PROBLEM?? Just wanna' WHINE? Don't post it to the >list...write me, dusty (list administrator) at >CHAHTA-L-admin@cultures.rootsweb.com > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Indeed Choctaw land was, for want of a better word,"stolen". I have files of records found by myself and other, to back that up. A good example is the McKennon Roll, which was done in 1899 in Mississippi to establish those who were eligible for removal and land allotments, then "buried" for eight years by the Dawes Commission until after the deadline had passed. When those hundreds of lawsuits were filed by the Choctaws of Mississippi (up untilthe 1950's) this roll and any other legal claims were thrown out of court. I think an appropriate word here is "SCREWED", pardon my language. dusty d ----- Original Message ----- From: Sonja Tashman <sonja_tashman@hotmail.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 2:19 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] blood quantums, etc... > I remember reading at one time that when the Choctaw Nation was > reestablishing itself that it was found that alot of whites had unlawfully > claimed Choctaw land as their own and the Choctaw Nation did in fact have to > bring many lawsuits inorder to regain this land that was, for a lack of a > better word, stolen. I believe this may be just one of the reasons why paper > proof has become necessary also. > > Sonja > > > >From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] blood quantums, etc... > >Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 13:50:35 -0500 > > > >That is a really sticky question you asked, and I admit I have always been > >really conflicted about it....I don't like that it ever became necessary to > >ask for proof, but because things happened the way they did, what with the > >white government forcing all the changes on everyone, the lawyers for the > >Tribe going against the Tribe's own Treaty about who would be members, > >etc., > >I see where now it is necessary to prove your family was Choctaw...it is > >only because of money, and unfortunately that is a reality....there are > >those with or without Choctaw blood who would be "official" members of the > >Tribe ONLY for whatever financial benefits they might get...and I know the > >Tribe does the best it can to cover as many people as possible with health > >care and such....The problem is that so many people from so far away would > >want to be members, and without proving they are Choctaw, then anyone could > >join, whatever their motives are...On the other hand, I know the pain and > >frustration it causes for those who ARE really Choctaw and have no paper > >proof...and all I can say to that is how bad do you want to prove you are > >who you know you are? There are more records than people realise in the > >archives, and there are more family members with information on the family > >than people usually realise.....so I doubt there are many Choctaw people > >out > >there who couldn't find some paper proof of their Choctaw lineage, even if > >it's not a "final roll number"...at least they would have it on paper for > >anyone who questioned them... > >Yes, when people were half or more, they would be appointed a "guardian" to > >handle their finances...which is why we had so many fullbloods claiming > >only > >a quarter, which is why the blood quantum thing is useless and doesn't tell > >you anything.... > >I have always known I was Choctaw becasue my great-grandmother made sure we > >all knew...but I didn't know I would ever have to prove it untill much > >later...and I do have paper proof I am Choctaw... > >Barbara > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Linda Branum" <mamalin@1s.net> > >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:03 PM > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] blood quantums, etc... > > > > > > > Thats true Barbara, but do we have to treat our people as the > >goverment > > > did and ask each one how much blood they have? I don't think so. I know > >you > > > are just explaining this and you wouldn't feel that one has to have > >proof > >of > > > Indian Heritage before you would let them in our circle. > > > I feel my ancestors drawing me back into them and want anyone who > >feels > > > the same to be my brother and sister. > > > I don't care if they are full blood or 1/250 its NA blood running in > >their > > > veins as in mine, only I have proof. > > > I only have rumors of Cherokee blood in me but proof on my Choctaw > >side > > > but my ancestors are calling me from both sides and I feel both are > >present. > > > There are many Indian's who didn't enroll as NA so the goverment > >wouldn't > > > get into their business. I am sure thats why lots of the ones who can't > >find > > > any documentation can't find that. I also heard that in some places if > >you > > > were NA and told you were 1/2 or more blood that the goverment said that > >you > > > had to have a white person take care of your business. Has anyone else > >heard > > > this? > > > Regards, Linda > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Barbara Ellison" <greybird7@pisp.net> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:36 PM > > > Subject: [CHAHTA] blood quantums, etc... > > > > > > > > > > People need to remember that blood quantum was not an Indian idea..and > >it > > > was brought into use by those who wanted our lands...and who wanted to > > > divide us into oblivion...and they have almost succeeded, but not > >quite... > > > > B. > > > > >>-->CHATA SIA HOKE<--<< > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the > >quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > >Need more CHOCTAW information. Visit Rusty Lang's pages at > >http://www.choctaw-web.com for articles, censuses, etc. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Need more CHOCTAW information. Visit Rusty Lang's pages at http://www.choctaw-web.com for articles, censuses, etc. >

Basically, it is an old prophecy given to the Lakotas and their brothers, that White Buffalo Calf Woman, the spirit who gave them their pipe and other sacraments, would return in the form of a white buffalo. When that happend, the culture of the Indian people would again arise and native people would again become the dominant culture/guiding force of this continent. There has been no female white buffalo born in the US since "Miracle", who was born on a northern farm about 6-7 years ago (???). Can't remember what state. There have been white male buffaloes, the last was seen in Yosemite during the 30's I believe, but never a female. These are not albinos, as they have dark eyes and hoofs, just an aborration of nature that crops up rarely. It is my understanding that she has been recognized by the elders and medicine people of the Lakotas as being the fulfillment of that prophecy. I've not personally seen her, but the news that filters down to us is that she is fulfilling prophecy by turning the four colors of man. She was born white, then turned yellow, is now brown, but is expected to mature to a black color. The farmer who owns her has made a place for those visiting her and making offerings to do so. He has promised not to kill her. We heard a rumor down here that she had been killed by an outsider, found shot to death in her corral, but don't know if that's true or not. I certainly hope not, but knowing the state of the country today I wouldn't be surprised. That's all I know. Perhaps those closer to her or perhaps someone who has visited her can add more. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Linda Branum <mamalin@1s.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] White Buffalo > Dusty, > Will you please explain the legend of the white buffalo to the new ones on > the list or give us a URL to go to that would explain it. I know the legend > but some might not. > Thanks in advance. > Regards, Linda Kirby Branum > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 10:04 AM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > Yes Sonja, the white buffalo has come. Welcome to our circle and please > > continue your input. > > > > dusty > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Sonja Tashman <sonja_tashman@hotmail.com> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 4:22 AM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > Halito to all, > > > Maybe I am wrong and I am sure I will be corrected if so LOL, but it > seems > > > to me that in a round about way the prophecy of the Indian people once > > again > > > getting back all that belonged to them may, in a way, involve not the > > actual > > > possession of material possessions, but getting back to the old ways and > > > beliefs? And if this may be true, then would it not matter that the > > Nations > > > be full bloods or mixed bloods? Again I say I may be wrong and fully > > > prepared to be so but, I only know that even though I may be lighter > than > > > most full bloods, my blood, heart and soul is the same as all my > > relations > > > from generations back. > > > > > > Sonja > > > > > > > > > >From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 19:36:28 -0700 > > > > > > > >Halito Barbara, Gemma And Dusty > > > > Last night I was talking to my nephew about the problem that we are > > > >having > > > >of our kids getting involved with gangs and such. I was looking back on > > my > > > >life and the road that I took and tried to explain why It took that > > course. > > > >In my experience I believe Indian people have a innerself that needs to > > be > > > >a > > > >part of a tribe, this is our makeup our genetic being and our ancestors > > > >survival trait. In this day and age a lot of us being removed from the > > > >tribal closeness that were searching for took a lot of different roads. > > > >Luckly some of us finally found the Red road and are coming back to the > > > >home > > > >fires of our people. > > > > When the rest finally find their way back we need to be there to help > > > >them. > > > > For seven generations > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > >>From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > > >>Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > >>To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > >>Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > >>Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:01:33 -0500 > > > >> > > > >>Those who have grown up in Indian communities but seem to have no > > > >>knowledge > > > >>of their own spirituality are still aware of something inside that is > > > >>different, even if they don't know what it is.(Because of the thick > > > >>assimilation) > > > >>And it is my hope that more of our people will recognise that we are > not > > > >>"second class" and that our spirituality is not just a matter of > > > >>"beliefs", > > > >>and that it is not "inferior" to the spirituality any other race of > > > >>people...It is also my hope that those non-Indians who can learn a > > better > > > >>way of living in balance from Indians, or whoever, will do so... > > > >>B. > > > >>----- Original Message ----- > > > >>From: "Gemma West" <gemmawest@usa.net> > > > >>To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > >>Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:35 PM > > > >>Subject: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > > > >>trying > > > >>to > > > >> > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit > > in. > > > >> > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions > > of > > > >>good > > > >> > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look > > to > > > >>their > > > >> > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. > It > > > >>is > > > >> > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. > > It > > > >>is > > > >> > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing > > is > > > >>that > > > >> > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > > > >>Indians > > > >>and > > > >> > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is > finding > > > >>the > > > >>few > > > >> > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > >> > > > > >> > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it > causes > > > >>us > > > >>to > > > >> > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they > here > > to > > > >>get? > > > >> > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about > this > > > >>reverse > > > >> > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our > own > > > >> > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live > > with. > > > >>This > > > >> > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. > If > > > >>we > > > >>can > > > >> > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great > thing. > > > >>After > > > >> > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world > > > >>shaped > > > >>by > > > >> > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > > > >>balance. > > > >>It > > > >> > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > >> > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we > > > >>went > > > >>to > > > >> > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born > in > > us > > > >> > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a > > > >>white > > > >> > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, > > but > > > >>they > > > >> > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to > > put > > > >> > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at > > best > > > >> > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > >> > B. > > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > >> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > >> > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > >> > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > > everyone's > > > >> > slings > > > >> > > and arrows... > > > >> > > > > > >> > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just > think > > > >>our > > > >> > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've > had > > > >> > countless > > > >> > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as > long > > as > > > >>it's > > > >> > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because > > it > > > >>works > > > >> > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > derogatory > > > >>name. > > > >> > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do > so. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? > > Isn't > > > >>that > > > >> > > TRUE racism? > > > >> > > > > > >> > > dusty > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > >> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > >> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > >> > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > >> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > >> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > >> > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Halito Fay > > > >> > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian > > blood > > > >>at > > > >> > all > > > >> > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > >> > > > > Elkdreamer > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > >> > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > >> > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > >> > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > > >>quotes > > > >> > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > >> > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > >> > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > >> > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > >> > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > >> > Get free email and a permanent address at > > > >>http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > >> > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > >> > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > >> > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > quotes > > > >> > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > >>Choctaw Home Page: > > > >>http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > >> > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > >TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > >Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the > quotes > > > >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

Depending on what state you were living in, one could not attend school/vote/own property/own property without a legal guardian if one was known to be Indian. Exactly how this law changed in those states/territories after the removals I'm not sure of, because in most southeastern states where the Five Civilized Tribes lived, if one chose to remain in the homeland and not remove to Oklahoma, he/she became an official US citizen by at least 1900. With US citizenship came the rights and privileges of that designation. However, in some southern states, including the one where I live, there was a phenomenon known as the "poll tax". In order to pay poll tax, one had to be able to read/write in order to answer certain questions on a "test". This was one way (and only one way, there were other, more "violent" ways), at the time, of weeding out most of the blacks from the voting process. Poll taxes were still in effect when I was a youngster, only being declared illegal after the Civil Rights Act of the 60's. I would imagine the requirements of the poll tax prevented a lot of NA's, and other, from voting. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Linda Branum <mamalin@1s.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:03 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] blood quantums, etc... > Thats true Barbara, but do we have to treat our people as the goverment > did and ask each one how much blood they have? I don't think so. I know you > are just explaining this and you wouldn't feel that one has to have proof of > Indian Heritage before you would let them in our circle. > I feel my ancestors drawing me back into them and want anyone who feels > the same to be my brother and sister. > I don't care if they are full blood or 1/250 its NA blood running in their > veins as in mine, only I have proof. > I only have rumors of Cherokee blood in me but proof on my Choctaw side > but my ancestors are calling me from both sides and I feel both are present. > There are many Indian's who didn't enroll as NA so the goverment wouldn't > get into their business. I am sure thats why lots of the ones who can't find > any documentation can't find that. I also heard that in some places if you > were NA and told you were 1/2 or more blood that the goverment said that you > had to have a white person take care of your business. Has anyone else heard > this? > Regards, Linda > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Barbara Ellison" <greybird7@pisp.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:36 PM > Subject: [CHAHTA] blood quantums, etc... > > > > People need to remember that blood quantum was not an Indian idea..and it > was brought into use by those who wanted our lands...and who wanted to > divide us into oblivion...and they have almost succeeded, but not quite... > > B. > > >>-->CHATA SIA HOKE<--<< > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

Yes, age is listed on the Dawes roll. You calculate it from the year that particular roll was done. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: faynshep <faynshep@telapex.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:06 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Dawes info.? > You know, it tells you so much but it doesn't say what year that information > was taken so you don't know when a person was born. I will call them and see > if I can order over the phone. > Fay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 7:22 AM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Dawes info.? > > > > I can tell you what family members are listed on the same census card, > > sometimes helping people to recognize if a name is their ancestor or not. > > > > Seems to me like I have been told you can do this over the phone with > credit > > card. > > > > dusty > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: faynshep <faynshep@telapex.com> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:14 AM > > Subject: [CHAHTA] Dawes info.? > > > > > > > Dusty, Can you order a packet over the phone and pay with a credit card? > > > I have a name, age, census number, and roll number. Is there any more > > info. > > > on what you have? > > > Fay > > > Don't ever give up.!!!! > > > http://www.accessgenealogy.com/gedcoms/ratcliff/ > > > List owner HOLDEN-L, SCHIFANO-L > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ >

Good words, Gemma! BTW, one of my old instructors was a person who was re-teaching Indian people some of their lost crafts. He had a government grant to go into the Indian communities and conduct classes in some of the old ways that had been lost. There are a few still carrying on with the spark that he provided in ingniting those old fires. dusty ----- Original Message ----- From: Gemma West <gemmawest@usa.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 9:55 AM Subject: [CHAHTA] Dusty, community > Of course we all know that we can't say what the state of the Indian community > is without taking the separate nations into account. I live in Connecticut, > near the Pequots and Mohegans. These Indians have very low quantum and very > small numbers because the eradication was so swift and merciless out here. > Today they are doing extremely well financially but, because of what was been > lost in the past, they have actually had to bring in non-members to reacquaint > them with native traditions. I applaud their honesty in doing this. I also > applaud their move in this direction. It is obvious to both me and them that > Indian is a shallow word a without cultural sense to back it up. > > Then there are nations like the nations, like the Choctaw, Cherokee, and > Seminole that have been split into several bands. I look at the MBCI vs. the > OK Choctaw, The Ketoowah band of Cherokee and NC Cherokee vs. the OK Cherokee > and I see huge differences in cultural integrity, community, and shared > missions. For the western nations like the Hopi, whose cultures were > assualted but whose people remained relatively close to their source, cultural > integrity seems to be relatively high but so is poverty. So simply being part > of a group does not cut it. Many of these groups have become corporations of > sorts. It is hard for me to respect that. > > Then there are my sisters and brothers to the south who are still in armed > warfare. People are still dying for this way of life. I hope everyone is > aware of that. > > Personally, I know that blood means nothing if the individual doesn't draw on > her ancestors as the foundation for herself. Walking away from ancestors > requires a lot of effort, but I know many who have done it. It's hard to make > yourself over into something you're not and so easy to return to who you are. > Defining Indians by blood fails by my ancestors' measures (the Choctaw nation > accepted many members of neighboring nations and cast out those who refused to > abide by the code). Defining Indians by culture was what we did. But who > decides on the culture when it has been splintered and turned upon itself so > many times? That is the hard part. Until we sit down and determine where we > should be it is premature to try to guide others. Obviously you can not give > someone a multiple choice test to determine enrollment. This is a big issue, > not only for ourselves but for the future of sovereignty. A sovereign nation > should be able to accept any citizen that it wants but sovereignty is limited > by America. As the Pequots grow wealthy, non-Indians look at them and say: > Well they don't look Indian. Why do they get those special benefits? As the > MBCI and OK Choctaws take in funds from gaming non-Indians say: Well that's > not a very "Indian" thing to do (even if they are really wondering about their > share). > > And yes some Indians are practicing racism. I can understand some motives, I > don't understand others. But I do know one thing. I strive to be myself for > only one group of people. Those are my ancestors. How others define me or > what others think of me is completely irrelevant. I am half Indian and half > African. I will never compromise that for anyone or anything. > > > Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> wrote: > Gemma and all: > > I am intrigued and challenged by your question, "Does the community still > exist." I have pondered this question for many years and under many > different circumstances., and would like to get some feedback from other > listmembers. > > What is the state of the Indian community today..... > Specifically, WHAT IS AN INDIAN? Is it a matter of blood quantum? > Lifestyle? Beliefs? > > There can be no argument that there is definite predjudice among NA as to > "who is Indian" and who is not. There are "skins" and there are "bloods". > Why the separation? What does it take to be considered "Indian enough". > Are some NAs practicing a racism they would decry in other races.? Don't > quote me the government's definition of Indian, I'm well aware of that. > > I want the opinions of others on this list. > > dusty > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David and Tommie Marsters <haili65@proaxis.com> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:30 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > Well put, Gemma. I agree. > > Tommie > > > > Gemma West wrote: > > > > > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > trying to > > > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit in. > > > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions of > good > > > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look to > their > > > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. It is > > > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. It > is > > > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing is > that > > > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > Indians and > > > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is finding > the few > > > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > > > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it causes us > to > > > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they here to > get? > > > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about this > reverse > > > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our own > > > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live with. > This > > > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. If we > can > > > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great thing. > After > > > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world shaped > by > > > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > balance. It > > > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > > > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we went > to > > > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in us > > > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a white > > > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, but > they > > > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to put > > > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at best > > > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > B. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to everyone's > > > slings > > > > and arrows... > > > > > > > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think > our > > > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > > > countless > > > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long as > it's > > > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because it > works > > > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a derogatory > name. > > > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > > > > > > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? Isn't > that > > > > TRUE racism? > > > > > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halito Fay > > > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian blood > at > > > all > > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > quotes > > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Markie and Fay's CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

I will feel left out if I dont get to know whats going on behind closed doors. dont leave me please ----- Original Message ----- From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 8:01 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Spirituality and religion > Thanks for your good words, Rusty. Please continue your input. > > Many of us, including myself, would also much prefer to talk of these things > on a one to one basis. I think that is best. Each of us have matters that > we feel are too sacred for a public discussion forum such as this. However, > one of the problems that resulted from the scattering of our people is our > inability to communicate due to distance and estrangement. We on this list > (numbers now down considerably), have only this means fellowship as our > ancestors once did in person. I would much prefer we were sitting in talk > circle in a room somewhere, or around a campfire. Unfortunately, that's > usually not possible in our world today. > > I personally feel it is IMPERATIVE that the "lost birds" among us reconnect > with each other. Our cultural survival is at stake. While those whose > families chose to remain in Mississippi may feel they are the keepers of the > culture, the facts are that the stringent blood quantum criteria set by the > tribe has doomed it to eventual extinction. Their numbers are up > temporarily through enrollment, due to the fact that their very capable > leadership has now made it possible to remain in the neighborhood and > survive economically. My ancestors had to leave Mississippi or starve. > And there are many who remained who came very close to starving. I have > seen figures of slightly more than 100 heads of households counted among the > Choctaws in Mississippi as recently as the 1920's. > > There are many whose own grandchildren are not eligible for enrollment. > Thanks be to God, the Oklahoma Choctaw nation has wisely chosen to include > all who can "prove up." But there are still those thousands whose > families remain undocumented, through no fault of their own. > > This medium is second-best, to be sure, but it's all we have at present. > Many of us have met face-to-face, and I hope those opportunities will > continue to arise in the future. A good gathering place is at Choctaw-Fair > coming up in Mississippi in July. I hope all who can, will attend. > > dusty > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <rusty-old-car@webtv.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:31 AM > Subject: [CHAHTA] Spirituality and religion > > > > We are all born with this deep seeded spirituality in our hearts but in > > a society such as ours it seems to take a lot introspect to bring it to > > a realization. Contrary to the belief of some this knowledge was not > > just given to the indian peoples though time may not have left us not as > > far removed as others it is universal knowledge. Every woman, every man, > > are our sisters and brothers although we may not always agree (and we > > may not want to claim them) they are ours all the same. Every plant, > > every animal, they are our relatives (consider them distant cousins if > > one would prefer) but we are related. > > Now, it seems that in Christianity "God created everything" Then would > > it not also be true in christianity that we are all related? I am told > > that in the bible it also says man is "master" of all that is created. > > True that would put us right at the top but was that meant to say "man > > should do as he pleases" the word seems to imply a great responsibility > > to me. To be a true master of all would one not have to also be a > > steward to all. To take without asking and without giving thanks for > > what is received would seem to me to be thievery. > > The question was asked does an animal running away from a hunter give up > > its life to the hunter and require to be thanked? Let me answer the > > question in this way the creator saw that we hunt the deer, we shoot the > > deer, (We evite friends over for beer and barbeque, whatever) The > > creator could have saw to it that bullets and arrows bounced of the > > dears and they walked over and kicked our a__ and ate us when the family > > gathered for dinner. However, this is not the case and the deer runs. > > The creator did not make things so whoever needed a snack could come > > take a bite out of the deer either. The deer enjoys its life but it as > > well as any animal knows that where it is in creation and so the bargain > > of the hunt was struck. The deer says "if you are cleaver enough my life > > falls into your hands to do with as you please if you fail to be so > > cleaver then my life is my on and perhaps you should dig for roots or > > something a little more your speed my friend. > > A person gives thanks to an animal when it gives its life because it > > would be plain rude if one did not. And on such a great sacrifice the > > animal makes the absolute least one could do is be respectful. > > Personally, I think spirituality is best discussed person to person. Why > > I am putting my thoughts in now I could only guess as a lack of > > judgement. > > > > rusty > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Choctaw Home Page: > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ >

does anyone know of a good choctaw chat room ----- Original Message ----- From: <Amarya@aol.com> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 10:28 AM Subject: [CHAHTA] Re: CHAHTA-D Digest V01 #195 > In a message dated 4/6/01 8:40:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > CHAHTA-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: > > > > This medium is second-best, to be sure, but it's all we have at present. > > Many of us have met face-to-face, and I hope those opportunities will > > continue to arise in the future. A good gathering place is at Choctaw-Fair > > coming up in Mississippi in July. I hope all who can, will attend. > > > > dusty > > > > > > > > Dusty, > In a sense, I may be a "lost bird" as I was born and raised in > California. However, I do belong to the OK Choctaws and was raised with the > knowledge that I was part of that nation. My mother was born in Caddo, OK > and I grew up with her telling me this fact often. I don't look indian and > don't have much blood quantum, but I have felt closer to the OK Choctaw than > the Scots or Irish or anything else. I have always been proud of my Indian > heritage, even before it was cool. Mary > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Need more CHOCTAW information. Visit Rusty Lang's pages at http://www.choctaw-web.com for articles, censuses, etc. >

i had a white buffalo once, bought it in okla city ----- Original Message ----- From: Dusty <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:45 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] White Buffalo > Basically, it is an old prophecy given to the Lakotas and their brothers, > that White Buffalo Calf Woman, the spirit who gave them their pipe and other > sacraments, would return in the form of a white buffalo. When that happend, > the culture of the Indian people would again arise and native people would > again become the dominant culture/guiding force of this continent. > > There has been no female white buffalo born in the US since "Miracle", who > was born on a northern farm about 6-7 years ago (???). Can't remember what > state. There have been white male buffaloes, the last was seen in Yosemite > during the 30's I believe, but never a female. These are not albinos, as > they have dark eyes and hoofs, just an aborration of nature that crops up > rarely. > > It is my understanding that she has been recognized by the elders and > medicine people of the Lakotas as being the fulfillment of that prophecy. > I've not personally seen her, but the news that filters down to us is that > she is fulfilling prophecy by turning the four colors of man. She was born > white, then turned yellow, is now brown, but is expected to mature to a > black color. The farmer who owns her has made a place for those visiting > her and making offerings to do so. He has promised not to kill her. > > We heard a rumor down here that she had been killed by an outsider, found > shot to death in her corral, but don't know if that's true or not. I > certainly hope not, but knowing the state of the country today I wouldn't be > surprised. That's all I know. Perhaps those closer to her or perhaps > someone who has visited her can add more. > > dusty > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Linda Branum <mamalin@1s.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:33 PM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] White Buffalo > > > > Dusty, > > Will you please explain the legend of the white buffalo to the new ones > on > > the list or give us a URL to go to that would explain it. I know the > legend > > but some might not. > > Thanks in advance. > > Regards, Linda Kirby Branum > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 10:04 AM > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > Yes Sonja, the white buffalo has come. Welcome to our circle and please > > > continue your input. > > > > > > dusty > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Sonja Tashman <sonja_tashman@hotmail.com> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 4:22 AM > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > > > > > > > Halito to all, > > > > Maybe I am wrong and I am sure I will be corrected if so LOL, but it > > seems > > > > to me that in a round about way the prophecy of the Indian people once > > > again > > > > getting back all that belonged to them may, in a way, involve not the > > > actual > > > > possession of material possessions, but getting back to the old ways > and > > > > beliefs? And if this may be true, then would it not matter that the > > > Nations > > > > be full bloods or mixed bloods? Again I say I may be wrong and fully > > > > prepared to be so but, I only know that even though I may be lighter > > than > > > > most full bloods, my blood, heart and soul is the same as all my > > > relations > > > > from generations back. > > > > > > > > Sonja > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 19:36:28 -0700 > > > > > > > > > >Halito Barbara, Gemma And Dusty > > > > > Last night I was talking to my nephew about the problem that we are > > > > >having > > > > >of our kids getting involved with gangs and such. I was looking back > on > > > my > > > > >life and the road that I took and tried to explain why It took that > > > course. > > > > >In my experience I believe Indian people have a innerself that needs > to > > > be > > > > >a > > > > >part of a tribe, this is our makeup our genetic being and our > ancestors > > > > >survival trait. In this day and age a lot of us being removed from > the > > > > >tribal closeness that were searching for took a lot of different > roads. > > > > >Luckly some of us finally found the Red road and are coming back to > the > > > > >home > > > > >fires of our people. > > > > > When the rest finally find their way back we need to be there to > help > > > > >them. > > > > > For seven generations > > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > > > > > >>From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > > > >>Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > >>To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > > > >>Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > >>Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:01:33 -0500 > > > > >> > > > > >>Those who have grown up in Indian communities but seem to have no > > > > >>knowledge > > > > >>of their own spirituality are still aware of something inside that > is > > > > >>different, even if they don't know what it is.(Because of the thick > > > > >>assimilation) > > > > >>And it is my hope that more of our people will recognise that we are > > not > > > > >>"second class" and that our spirituality is not just a matter of > > > > >>"beliefs", > > > > >>and that it is not "inferior" to the spirituality any other race of > > > > >>people...It is also my hope that those non-Indians who can learn a > > > better > > > > >>way of living in balance from Indians, or whoever, will do so... > > > > >>B. > > > > >>----- Original Message ----- > > > > >>From: "Gemma West" <gemmawest@usa.net> > > > > >>To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > >>Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:35 PM > > > > >>Subject: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > What has happened for many people is that they wander through > life > > > > >>trying > > > > >>to > > > > >> > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't > fit > > > in. > > > > >> > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's > defintions > > > of > > > > >>good > > > > >> > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to > look > > > to > > > > >>their > > > > >> > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. > > It > > > > >>is > > > > >> > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological > characteristics. > > > It > > > > >>is > > > > >> > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad > thing > > > is > > > > >>that > > > > >> > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up > around > > > > >>Indians > > > > >>and > > > > >> > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is > > finding > > > > >>the > > > > >>few > > > > >> > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it > > causes > > > > >>us > > > > >>to > > > > >> > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they > > here > > > to > > > > >>get? > > > > >> > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about > > this > > > > >>reverse > > > > >> > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our > > own > > > > >> > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live > > > with. > > > > >>This > > > > >> > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. > > If > > > > >>we > > > > >>can > > > > >> > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great > > thing. > > > > >>After > > > > >> > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world > > > > >>shaped > > > > >>by > > > > >> > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > > > > >>balance. > > > > >>It > > > > >> > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > > > >> > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something > we > > > > >>went > > > > >>to > > > > >> > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born > > in > > > us > > > > >> > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by > a > > > > >>white > > > > >> > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some > things, > > > but > > > > >>they > > > > >> > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts > to > > > put > > > > >> > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is > at > > > best > > > > >> > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > > > >> > B. > > > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > >> > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > > > >> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > >> > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > > > >> > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > > > everyone's > > > > >> > slings > > > > >> > > and arrows... > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just > > think > > > > >>our > > > > >> > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've > > had > > > > >> > countless > > > > >> > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as > > long > > > as > > > > >>it's > > > > >> > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways > because > > > it > > > > >>works > > > > >> > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a > > derogatory > > > > >>name. > > > > >> > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do > > so. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? > > > Isn't > > > > >>that > > > > >> > > TRUE racism? > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > dusty > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > >> > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > > > >> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > >> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > > > >> > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > > > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > >> > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > > > >> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > >> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > > > >> > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Halito Fay > > > > >> > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian > > > blood > > > > >>at > > > > >> > all > > > > >> > > > > Walk in Beauty > > > > >> > > > > Elkdreamer > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > >> > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > > >> > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > >> > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without > the > > > > >>quotes > > > > >> > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > >> > > Choctaw Home Page: > > > > >> > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > >> > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > > > >> > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > >> > Get free email and a permanent address at > > > > >>http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > >> > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > >> > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > >> > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > > quotes > > > > >> > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > >>Choctaw Home Page: > > > > >>http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > > > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > >TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > > >Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the > > quotes > > > > >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

That is a really sticky question you asked, and I admit I have always been really conflicted about it....I don't like that it ever became necessary to ask for proof, but because things happened the way they did, what with the white government forcing all the changes on everyone, the lawyers for the Tribe going against the Tribe's own Treaty about who would be members, etc., I see where now it is necessary to prove your family was Choctaw...it is only because of money, and unfortunately that is a reality....there are those with or without Choctaw blood who would be "official" members of the Tribe ONLY for whatever financial benefits they might get...and I know the Tribe does the best it can to cover as many people as possible with health care and such....The problem is that so many people from so far away would want to be members, and without proving they are Choctaw, then anyone could join, whatever their motives are...On the other hand, I know the pain and frustration it causes for those who ARE really Choctaw and have no paper proof...and all I can say to that is how bad do you want to prove you are who you know you are? There are more records than people realise in the archives, and there are more family members with information on the family than people usually realise.....so I doubt there are many Choctaw people out there who couldn't find some paper proof of their Choctaw lineage, even if it's not a "final roll number"...at least they would have it on paper for anyone who questioned them... Yes, when people were half or more, they would be appointed a "guardian" to handle their finances...which is why we had so many fullbloods claiming only a quarter, which is why the blood quantum thing is useless and doesn't tell you anything.... I have always known I was Choctaw becasue my great-grandmother made sure we all knew...but I didn't know I would ever have to prove it untill much later...and I do have paper proof I am Choctaw... Barbara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Branum" <mamalin@1s.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:03 PM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] blood quantums, etc... > Thats true Barbara, but do we have to treat our people as the goverment > did and ask each one how much blood they have? I don't think so. I know you > are just explaining this and you wouldn't feel that one has to have proof of > Indian Heritage before you would let them in our circle. > I feel my ancestors drawing me back into them and want anyone who feels > the same to be my brother and sister. > I don't care if they are full blood or 1/250 its NA blood running in their > veins as in mine, only I have proof. > I only have rumors of Cherokee blood in me but proof on my Choctaw side > but my ancestors are calling me from both sides and I feel both are present. > There are many Indian's who didn't enroll as NA so the goverment wouldn't > get into their business. I am sure thats why lots of the ones who can't find > any documentation can't find that. I also heard that in some places if you > were NA and told you were 1/2 or more blood that the goverment said that you > had to have a white person take care of your business. Has anyone else heard > this? > Regards, Linda > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Barbara Ellison" <greybird7@pisp.net> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:36 PM > Subject: [CHAHTA] blood quantums, etc... > > > > People need to remember that blood quantum was not an Indian idea..and it > was brought into use by those who wanted our lands...and who wanted to > divide us into oblivion...and they have almost succeeded, but not quite... > > B. > > >>-->CHATA SIA HOKE<--<< > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

Dusty if you put a comma between each e-mail addy it will send to each one you want. Not the reply to all. Just put a comma between each one no space and see if it will work for you that way. That way you can send to each one you want not to all. Let me know if this works for you. I just found out this the other day. Also if that person isn't in your address book all you have to do is type in their e-mail addy. Regards, Linda Kirby Branum ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 9:40 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Question for Dusty > My pooter has two buttons. One for "reply" and one for "reply to all". If > I hit "reply" it goes only to the person who sent the message. If I hit > "reply to all", it goes to the whole list. > > I can't say why yours is doing what it's doing. Gremlins?? > > dusty > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Choctaw <choctaw@bscn.com> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 12:34 AM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Question for Dusty > > > > I noticed that when I reply to a post from Tsana that it was showing that > it > > was going directly to her and not to the Chahta-L, but any of the other > > posts that I reply to go to the rootsweb.com address. I noticed this and > so > > I have been replying to Tsana's posts by hitting reply on one of the other > > posts and then changing the subject line. Do you know why this is > happening > > or what I might be doing wrong? > > Yokoke, > > Shelley > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. >

Dusty, Will you please explain the legend of the white buffalo to the new ones on the list or give us a URL to go to that would explain it. I know the legend but some might not. Thanks in advance. Regards, Linda Kirby Branum ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > Yes Sonja, the white buffalo has come. Welcome to our circle and please > continue your input. > > dusty > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sonja Tashman <sonja_tashman@hotmail.com> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 4:22 AM > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > > > Halito to all, > > Maybe I am wrong and I am sure I will be corrected if so LOL, but it seems > > to me that in a round about way the prophecy of the Indian people once > again > > getting back all that belonged to them may, in a way, involve not the > actual > > possession of material possessions, but getting back to the old ways and > > beliefs? And if this may be true, then would it not matter that the > Nations > > be full bloods or mixed bloods? Again I say I may be wrong and fully > > prepared to be so but, I only know that even though I may be lighter than > > most full bloods, my blood, heart and soul is the same as all my > relations > > from generations back. > > > > Sonja > > > > > > >From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > >Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 19:36:28 -0700 > > > > > >Halito Barbara, Gemma And Dusty > > > Last night I was talking to my nephew about the problem that we are > > >having > > >of our kids getting involved with gangs and such. I was looking back on > my > > >life and the road that I took and tried to explain why It took that > course. > > >In my experience I believe Indian people have a innerself that needs to > be > > >a > > >part of a tribe, this is our makeup our genetic being and our ancestors > > >survival trait. In this day and age a lot of us being removed from the > > >tribal closeness that were searching for took a lot of different roads. > > >Luckly some of us finally found the Red road and are coming back to the > > >home > > >fires of our people. > > > When the rest finally find their way back we need to be there to help > > >them. > > > For seven generations > > > Walk in Beauty > > > Elkdreamer > > > > > >>From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> > > >>Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > >>To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com > > >>Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > >>Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:01:33 -0500 > > >> > > >>Those who have grown up in Indian communities but seem to have no > > >>knowledge > > >>of their own spirituality are still aware of something inside that is > > >>different, even if they don't know what it is.(Because of the thick > > >>assimilation) > > >>And it is my hope that more of our people will recognise that we are not > > >>"second class" and that our spirituality is not just a matter of > > >>"beliefs", > > >>and that it is not "inferior" to the spirituality any other race of > > >>people...It is also my hope that those non-Indians who can learn a > better > > >>way of living in balance from Indians, or whoever, will do so... > > >>B. > > >>----- Original Message ----- > > >>From: "Gemma West" <gemmawest@usa.net> > > >>To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > >>Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:35 PM > > >>Subject: [CHAHTA] twinkies > > >> > > >> > > >> > What has happened for many people is that they wander through life > > >>trying > > >>to > > >> > figure out what is wrong...trying to figure out why they don't fit > in. > > >> > Attempts are made to mold themselves into someone else's defintions > of > > >>good > > >> > and bad. These attempts fail. Finally that person decides to look > to > > >>their > > >> > ancestors. They find themselves. They finally feel comfortable. It > > >>is > > >> > obvious to all that ancestors shape our biological characteristics. > It > > >>is > > >> > obvious to me that ancestors shape our spirituality. The sad thing > is > > >>that > > >> > sometimes the assimilation is so thick that you can grow up around > > >>Indians > > >>and > > >> > still not know your own spirituality. The beautiful thing is finding > > >>the > > >>few > > >> > who have refused assimilation and are willing to share knowledge. > > >> > > > >> > When non-Indian people ask to be allowed into the community it causes > > >>us > > >>to > > >> > question ourselves. Does community still exist? What are they here > to > > >>get? > > >> > Are we really different from them? I think the great thing about this > > >>reverse > > >> > acculturation is that it is spurring some of us to re-embrace our own > > >> > ancestors. It is removing the shame that our elders had to live > with. > > >>This > > >> > shame had no place and that is becoming clear to new generations. If > > >>we > > >>can > > >> > influence people to live a balanced life then that is a great thing. > > >>After > > >> > all, our children and their children will have to live in a world > > >>shaped > > >>by > > >> > the parents. We can not afford to be selfish with principles of > > >>balance. > > >>It > > >> > seems that they need these principles much more than we do. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> wrote: > > >> > "Our spirituality" is not "just an idea" and it is not something we > > >>went > > >>to > > >> > class and learned somewhere, or got off the internet...it is born in > us > > >> > (which is obvious to those Indians who were raised surrounded by a > > >>white > > >> > society) and a non-Indian may be able to learn from us some things, > but > > >>they > > >> > cannot "acquire" what they are not born with, and their attempts to > put > > >> > themselves on an "equal footing", with Indians, so to speak, is at > best > > >> > futile...and at worst, an attempt at cultural theft... > > >> > B. > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > > >> > From: "Dusty" <dustyc@microgear.net> > > >> > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > >> > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:59 PM > > >> > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > I shall play devil's advocate again and expose my rear to > everyone's > > >> > slings > > >> > > and arrows... > > >> > > > > >> > > What about those people who do not "want to be NA", but just think > > >>our > > >> > > spirituality, philosophy and way of life is a good idea. I've had > > >> > countless > > >> > > elders tell me, "I don't care what kind of blood you have, as long > as > > >>it's > > >> > > human". Just because an Anglo wants to practice our ways because > it > > >>works > > >> > > for them, doesn't mean they deserve to be belittled by a derogatory > > >>name. > > >> > > Are there really that many among us that are so arrogant to do so. > > >> > > > > >> > > Where did we ever get the idea that that we were so exclusive? > Isn't > > >>that > > >> > > TRUE racism? > > >> > > > > >> > > dusty > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > >> > > From: John & Arla Williams <jaws@crosstel.net> > > >> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > >> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:45 PM > > >> > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Elkdreamer, Where did the term come from? Arla > > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > >> > > > From: "Elkdreamer Wilkins" <elkdremr@hotmail.com> > > >> > > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > >> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:38 PM > > >> > > > Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] Elkdreamer, twinkies > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Halito Fay > > >> > > > > Mostly people that want to be N/A and really have no Indian > blood > > >>at > > >> > all > > >> > > > > Walk in Beauty > > >> > > > > Elkdreamer > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > >> > > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > > >> > > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > >> > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > > >>quotes > > >> > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > >> > > Choctaw Home Page: > > >> > > http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > >> > Need more CHOCTAW information?? Visit Judy White's pages at > > >> > http://accessgenealogy.com/native for rolls, data, etc. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > ____________________________________________________________________ > > >> > Get free email and a permanent address at > > >>http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > >> > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > >> > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > >> > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the > quotes > > >> > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >>==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > >>Choctaw Home Page: > > >>http://freepages.cultures.rootsweb.com/~choctaw/ > > >> > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > >TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > >Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > >Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the quotes > > >Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L genealogy mail list: > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... >

In a message dated 4/6/01 8:40:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, CHAHTA-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: > This medium is second-best, to be sure, but it's all we have at present. > Many of us have met face-to-face, and I hope those opportunities will > continue to arise in the future. A good gathering place is at Choctaw-Fair > coming up in Mississippi in July. I hope all who can, will attend. > > dusty > > > Dusty, In a sense, I may be a "lost bird" as I was born and raised in California. However, I do belong to the OK Choctaws and was raised with the knowledge that I was part of that nation. My mother was born in Caddo, OK and I grew up with her telling me this fact often. I don't look indian and don't have much blood quantum, but I have felt closer to the OK Choctaw than the Scots or Irish or anything else. I have always been proud of my Indian heritage, even before it was cool. Mary

I remember reading at one time that when the Choctaw Nation was reestablishing itself that it was found that alot of whites had unlawfully claimed Choctaw land as their own and the Choctaw Nation did in fact have to bring many lawsuits inorder to regain this land that was, for a lack of a better word, stolen. I believe this may be just one of the reasons why paper proof has become necessary also. Sonja >From: Barbara Ellison <greybird7@pisp.net> >Reply-To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >To: CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] blood quantums, etc... >Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 13:50:35 -0500 > >That is a really sticky question you asked, and I admit I have always been >really conflicted about it....I don't like that it ever became necessary to >ask for proof, but because things happened the way they did, what with the >white government forcing all the changes on everyone, the lawyers for the >Tribe going against the Tribe's own Treaty about who would be members, >etc., >I see where now it is necessary to prove your family was Choctaw...it is >only because of money, and unfortunately that is a reality....there are >those with or without Choctaw blood who would be "official" members of the >Tribe ONLY for whatever financial benefits they might get...and I know the >Tribe does the best it can to cover as many people as possible with health >care and such....The problem is that so many people from so far away would >want to be members, and without proving they are Choctaw, then anyone could >join, whatever their motives are...On the other hand, I know the pain and >frustration it causes for those who ARE really Choctaw and have no paper >proof...and all I can say to that is how bad do you want to prove you are >who you know you are? There are more records than people realise in the >archives, and there are more family members with information on the family >than people usually realise.....so I doubt there are many Choctaw people >out >there who couldn't find some paper proof of their Choctaw lineage, even if >it's not a "final roll number"...at least they would have it on paper for >anyone who questioned them... >Yes, when people were half or more, they would be appointed a "guardian" to >handle their finances...which is why we had so many fullbloods claiming >only >a quarter, which is why the blood quantum thing is useless and doesn't tell >you anything.... >I have always known I was Choctaw becasue my great-grandmother made sure we >all knew...but I didn't know I would ever have to prove it untill much >later...and I do have paper proof I am Choctaw... >Barbara >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Linda Branum" <mamalin@1s.net> >To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:03 PM >Subject: Re: [CHAHTA] blood quantums, etc... > > > > Thats true Barbara, but do we have to treat our people as the >goverment > > did and ask each one how much blood they have? I don't think so. I know >you > > are just explaining this and you wouldn't feel that one has to have >proof >of > > Indian Heritage before you would let them in our circle. > > I feel my ancestors drawing me back into them and want anyone who >feels > > the same to be my brother and sister. > > I don't care if they are full blood or 1/250 its NA blood running in >their > > veins as in mine, only I have proof. > > I only have rumors of Cherokee blood in me but proof on my Choctaw >side > > but my ancestors are calling me from both sides and I feel both are >present. > > There are many Indian's who didn't enroll as NA so the goverment >wouldn't > > get into their business. I am sure thats why lots of the ones who can't >find > > any documentation can't find that. I also heard that in some places if >you > > were NA and told you were 1/2 or more blood that the goverment said that >you > > had to have a white person take care of your business. Has anyone else >heard > > this? > > Regards, Linda > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Barbara Ellison" <greybird7@pisp.net> > > To: <CHAHTA-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:36 PM > > Subject: [CHAHTA] blood quantums, etc... > > > > > > > People need to remember that blood quantum was not an Indian idea..and >it > > was brought into use by those who wanted our lands...and who wanted to > > divide us into oblivion...and they have almost succeeded, but not >quite... > > > B. > > > >>-->CHATA SIA HOKE<--<< > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST: > > > Send msg. to CHAHTA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "unsubscribe" without the >quotes > > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > > > > > > ==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== > > To subscribe to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L Genealogy mail list: > > Send msg. to CHOCTAW-SOUTHEAST-L-request@rootsweb.com > > Put "one" word in "body" of message:... "subscribe" without the quotes > > Nothing in the subject line... Turn off signatures....... > > > > >==== CHAHTA Mailing List ==== >Need more CHOCTAW information. Visit Rusty Lang's pages at >http://www.choctaw-web.com for articles, censuses, etc. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com