I recall similar problems being discussed before. You have not done anything wrong, this is how the program works. The thing that is counted opposite Mary in the column headed "Marr" in the Family Group window is not her marriage events, but rather the number of distinct Family Groups in which she figures as a parent or spouse. These groups are the basic structural units the program works with. If Mary has no spouse or children, the number of such groups for her is zero; but if you then add a child for her, the program must create a group. If you add more children for Mary, you can choose to add them to the same family group, or, if the father is known to be different, you may want a new group ("other marriage - add"). In your case, Mary is a parent in two different family groups, which is as it should be. The only problem is that the group counter is labelled "Marr", but if you understand the meaning of the "Marr" column, you may be able to tolerate the labelling. A group may or may not have a marriage event between its parents, but rest assured that no marriage event is created unless you create it yourself. In the "story", the existence of a group (with Mary as parent or spouse) translates into "Mary and .... were married", WHETHER OR NOT there is a marriage event. This might be considered strange, but Ira justifies it by considering the situation where a user has entered children for a couple but has not entered a marriage event (whether through negligence, or because the couple were unmarried). This will produce a story saying "Mary and .... were married. Mary and .... had the following children." This is the problem for you. It might be better if the program were to omit the line "Mary and .... were married" from the story, unless there is a marriage event for the group. Then, with no marriage event, the story would read "Mary and .... had the following children" but there would be no "Mary and .... were married." This sounds right, but apparently in the past it has caused numbers of users to complain that it implied a slur against the couple. These users could be told to enter a marriage event for the couple, but Ira has argued that, on balance, the present behaviour produces the least dissatisfaction. As to the sequence in which the groups are presented in the story, I can only guess that this may be the chronological order of marriage events, with groups lacking a marriage event coming at the end. If so, it might suit you better if groups lacking a marriage event were to contribute the date of birth of eldest child in its place, but I expect this would require a change to the program. Hope this helps, Ciarán Ó Duibhín. ----- Original Message ----- From: "malbertho" <malbertho@ntlworld.com> To: <CFT-WIN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 10:32 PM Subject: [CFTW] Phantom marriage event. > Dear List members: > > HELP! > > A female ancestor had 2 illegitimate children, she then married a widower > and had several more. > I cannot recall now what I did to bring about the following snag, but here > are the symptoms. > > When I have the woman, Mary Ann BICKERS, as the key individual in the main > family group window, she has the symbol showing 2 marriages. I cannot bring > this down to 1. > > Marriage 1 has no data inserted and shows the words 'add spouse'. When I > double click on Mary's name, the event entry window just shows her birth and > the SECOND marriage, NO OTHER EVENTS. > > Back at the main family group window, when I click on the 'story' tab, the > sequence is all wrong with her second marriage details ( and children ) > appearing first. Then come the sentences: > > Mary and "spouse unknown" were married. > > Mary and "spouse unknown" had the following children. > > ...then the names of the 2 bastards. > > Nothing I have tried allows me to remove this mystery first marriage event - > as I say, it does not appear as an event in Mary's event page. I have tried > entering the words 'an unknown man' for the spouse and this gives the > correct phrase in relation to the children i.e. 'Mary and an unknown man had > the following children' but it still leaves the first phrase incorrectly as: > 'Mary and an unknown man were married'. > > Using the rebuild has not cured things. The Other Marriage dialogue box does > not allow the deletion of a marriage just its disconnection, but the latter > does not improve the situation. > > Can anyone please suggest what I have to do to return the story to the > correct sequence? > > I want it to contain:- no reference to a first marriage - then the reference > to Mary and an unknown man having 2 children - lastly the reference to her > first and only marriage followed by the children 3, 4, 5, etc.. > > Thanks in advance, > > Malcolm Palmer, > Norwich, > England. > > > ==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== > You can contact the List Manager at: > CFT-WIN-admin@rootsweb.com > >

Ciaran, What a brilliantly clear explanation, I am very grateful. Armed with this new knowledge I went back to the family group with enthusiasm and within minutes had it all ironed out. I edited the 'spouse unknown' to 'an unknown man', opened his events window and deleted the marriage event, then I added a 'Not married' event, and - BINGO - the story reads perfectly as follows: 1. Mary Ann BICKER(S) The parents of Mary Ann BICKER(S) are: 2. William BICKERS Mary was born about (est) 1824 at Wilby, Suffolk. Mary and an unknown man had the following children: 3. i. Jane Doy BICKERS 4. ii. Agnes BICKERS Mary and Samuel COLLIER were married December 27, 1859 at the parish church of Bramfield, Suffolk. Mary Ann was a spinster. She could not write Mary and Samuel had the following children: 5. i. Eliza COLLIER 6. ii. James COLLIER 7. iii. Elizabeth COLLIER Etc.. etc.. Best wishes and good hunting, Malcolm. -----Original Message----- From: Ciarán Ó Duibhín [mailto:ciaran@oduibhin.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: 11 April 2005 04:13 To: CFT-WIN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CFTW] Phantom marriage event. I recall similar problems being discussed before. You have not done anything wrong, this is how the program works. The thing that is counted opposite Mary in the column headed "Marr" in the Family Group window is not her marriage events, but rather the number of distinct Family Groups in which she figures as a parent or spouse. These groups are the basic structural units the program works with. If Mary has no spouse or children, the number of such groups for her is zero; but if you then add a child for her, the program must create a group. If you add more children for Mary, you can choose to add them to the same family group, or, if the father is known to be different, you may want a new group ("other marriage - add"). In your case, Mary is a parent in two different family groups, which is as it should be. The only problem is that the group counter is labelled "Marr", but if you understand the meaning of the "Marr" column, you may be able to tolerate the labelling. A group may or may not have a marriage event between its parents, but rest assured that no marriage event is created unless you create it yourself. In the "story", the existence of a group (with Mary as parent or spouse) translates into "Mary and .... were married", WHETHER OR NOT there is a marriage event. This might be considered strange, but Ira justifies it by considering the situation where a user has entered children for a couple but has not entered a marriage event (whether through negligence, or because the couple were unmarried). This will produce a story saying "Mary and .... were married. Mary and .... had the following children." This is the problem for you. It might be better if the program were to omit the line "Mary and .... were married" from the story, unless there is a marriage event for the group. Then, with no marriage event, the story would read "Mary and .... had the following children" but there would be no "Mary and .... were married." This sounds right, but apparently in the past it has caused numbers of users to complain that it implied a slur against the couple. These users could be told to enter a marriage event for the couple, but Ira has argued that, on balance, the present behaviour produces the least dissatisfaction. As to the sequence in which the groups are presented in the story, I can only guess that this may be the chronological order of marriage events, with groups lacking a marriage event coming at the end. If so, it might suit you better if groups lacking a marriage event were to contribute the date of birth of eldest child in its place, but I expect this would require a change to the program. Hope this helps, Ciarán Ó Duibhín. ----- Original Message ----- From: "malbertho" <malbertho@ntlworld.com> To: <CFT-WIN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 10:32 PM Subject: [CFTW] Phantom marriage event. > Dear List members: > > HELP! > > A female ancestor had 2 illegitimate children, she then married a widower > and had several more. > I cannot recall now what I did to bring about the following snag, but here > are the symptoms. > > When I have the woman, Mary Ann BICKERS, as the key individual in the main > family group window, she has the symbol showing 2 marriages. I cannot bring > this down to 1. > > Marriage 1 has no data inserted and shows the words 'add spouse'. When I > double click on Mary's name, the event entry window just shows her birth and > the SECOND marriage, NO OTHER EVENTS. > > Back at the main family group window, when I click on the 'story' tab, the > sequence is all wrong with her second marriage details ( and children ) > appearing first. Then come the sentences: > > Mary and "spouse unknown" were married. > > Mary and "spouse unknown" had the following children. > > ...then the names of the 2 bastards. > > Nothing I have tried allows me to remove this mystery first marriage event - > as I say, it does not appear as an event in Mary's event page. I have tried > entering the words 'an unknown man' for the spouse and this gives the > correct phrase in relation to the children i.e. 'Mary and an unknown man had > the following children' but it still leaves the first phrase incorrectly as: > 'Mary and an unknown man were married'. > > Using the rebuild has not cured things. The Other Marriage dialogue box does > not allow the deletion of a marriage just its disconnection, but the latter > does not improve the situation. > > Can anyone please suggest what I have to do to return the story to the > correct sequence? > > I want it to contain:- no reference to a first marriage - then the reference > to Mary and an unknown man having 2 children - lastly the reference to her > first and only marriage followed by the children 3, 4, 5, etc.. > > Thanks in advance, > > Malcolm Palmer, > Norwich, > England. > > > ==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== > You can contact the List Manager at: > CFT-WIN-admin@rootsweb.com > > ==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== You can contact the List Manager at: CFT-WIN-admin@rootsweb.com