Best of luck in your new venture. Your program is still the cleanest and best out there. Ira J Lund wrote: >Dear CFT Users, > >As many of you long time users realize – I have done a lot less work on CFT >the past 18 months than I used to do. There was a time when I worked on the >program regularly and issued updates every 2-3 months. I started Cumberland >Family Software in 1991 – so it has been 14 years since I have “been in >business”. However, as some of you may know “shareware” is usually not the >same as a regular business. For me it has been more of a hobby as the small >company has never generated enough income to be a real business, basically >only giving me some extra spending money. When PAF came became FREE several >years ago, my business dropped off quite a bit and has never recovered. Most >genealogy shareware programs last only a few years – as most programmers who >enter the market soon get disappointed at the meager returns. I have stayed >on because I use CFT myself (just under 60,000 names in my database) and >have had a very high interest in my own genealogy and CFT. If I was in it >for the money, I think I would have quit years ago. > >Recently I have accepted a new job and moved to Pennsylvania – I was in >Tennessee – and with the move and new job, it seems there is even less time >for CFT. I have decided not to entirely shut my business down, but simply to >drop the price (from $45 to $25) – one price for all (new and upgrades) and >cut back my web site (it is now a single page). > >George Durman, who operated this mailing list tells me that Rootsweb really >never shuts down Mailing Lists – so this List could still be monitored – but >emails (for both orders and questions) have dropped off quite a bit anyway. >And as many of you know there is not much traffic on this mailing list >anyway. So you are free to still post messages to the List for now. > >I will still retain my website and current email address. But I really have >no intentions to work on or improve CFT. If business were to really drop off >then perhaps one day I may eventually remove the program entirely from sale. >But I don’t really expect to do that for many years – until the program >becomes so outdated by newer offerings on the market that no one really >cares for CFT any more. It is not difficult for me to simply fill orders by >emailing the user code to purchasers. So I will continue to do that and to >respond to technical support questions as usual. > >I know there are many CFT users who will be disappointed. And I do feel some >responsibility to continue to answer questions as best I can for all users. >I do appreciate all the compliments and help I have received from many of >you over the years. > >Thanks, Ira > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-------- >Mr. Ira J. Lund >Cumberland Family Software >www.cf-software.com > > > > > >==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== >To unsubscribe from CFT-WIN, send an e-mail message to: > CFT-WIN-L-request@rootsweb.com (for individual messages) > CFT-WIN-D-request@rootsweb.com (for Digest mode) >Subject: unsubscribe >In the body include only one word: unsubscribe >(Turn OFF your signature file when sending this command) > > > >

Thank you to everyone who replied to me when I asked if there was a problem with Rootsweb as I was not receiving messages. I had resubscribed to all my mailing lists after returning from holiday and for several days received my usual 40 - 50 messages a day. They then all stopped for 3 days & I received nothing from any of my mailing lists (Even if I had received mail from only one list I would not have been concerned.) I checked my Rootsweb information as several people suggested I may have been unsubscribed for some reason, and all confirmed as being still subscribed. Now for some reason I am receiving messages again!!! So thank you again to all those people who emailed me. I really appreciated your input. Marilyn McMillan (Wellington, NZ

No problem here Gale ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marilyn & Jim McMillan" <marilyn_mcmillan@xtra.co.nz> To: <CFT-WIN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 4:08 PM Subject: [CFTW] No emails Just checking to see if there is a problem on Rootsweb, as I am not getting any emails from any of my mailing lists. Marilyn McMillan (Wellington, NZ) ==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== You can contact the List Manager at: CFT-WIN-admin@rootsweb.com

Just checking to see if there is a problem on Rootsweb, as I am not getting any emails from any of my mailing lists. Marilyn McMillan (Wellington, NZ)

Best Regards Marilyn Leonel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marilyn & Jim McMillan" <marilyn_mcmillan@xtra.co.nz> To: <CFT-WIN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 1:08 AM Subject: [CFTW] No emails > Just checking to see if there is a problem on Rootsweb, as I am not > getting any emails from any of my mailing lists. > > Marilyn McMillan (Wellington, NZ) > > > > ==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== > You can contact the List Manager at: > CFT-WIN-admin@rootsweb.com > >

Hi Doug. If your problem is just the length of the file-path, copy the file(s) to C: , then you should see everything. Even a folder, like C:\X, should be short enough for you to see the full path. (not permanently of course !!) good luck, Malcolm Turner --- CFT-WIN-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > CFT-WIN-D Digest Volume 05 : Issue 49 > > Today's Topics: > #1 RE: [CFTW] Play Media Problems > ["ira.lund@cf-software.com" <ira.lu] > > Administrivia: > To unsubscribe from CFT-WIN-D, send a message to > > CFT-WIN-D-request@rootsweb.com > > that contains in the body of the message the command > > unsubscribe > > and no other text. No subject line is necessary, > but if your software > requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, > too. > > You may contact the Listowner, George W. Durman, at: > > CFT-WIN-admin@rootsweb.com > > > > ______________________________> Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 18:53:25 -0400 > From: "ira.lund@cf-software.com" > <ira.lund@cf-software.com> > To: CFT-WIN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: [CFTW] Play Media Problems > > I am uncertain what to suggest. If you have some > photo viewer program that > does work you might try it. Basically all this > allows you to do anyway is > to view the photo larger than shown inside CFT. > > Maybe others may have some ideas. > > Ira > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Doug Cooper dlcooper@pobox.com > Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 16:17:50 -0400 > To: CFT-WIN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [CFTW] Play Media Problems > > > I have my photos and other images stored in a single > file within my "My > Documents" folder (Not in CFT folder). > > When I select and individual "edit individual" (I > can see thumbnails) and > then click on "media", I can see the thumbnails > fine. But when I select an > image and click "Play Media" , my image program > comes up fine but then > gives message "Cannot find the file > C:\Documents......". Since the message > does not present the entire address of the image, I > do not know for sure > where it is looking. I have tried using three > different image programs. > Doug Cooper > 4115 Crab Orchard Rd. > Huddleston, VA 24104 > > WA4JSS > 540 297 7614 > Cell- 434 851 6015 > dlcooper@pobox.com > > > > ==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from CFT-WIN, send an e-mail message > to: > CFT-WIN-L-request@rootsweb.com (for individual > messages) > CFT-WIN-D-request@rootsweb.com (for Digest mode) > Subject: unsubscribe > In the body include only one word: unsubscribe > (Turn OFF your signature file when sending this > command) > > > > - > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://mail2web.com/ . > ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

I am uncertain what to suggest. If you have some photo viewer program that does work you might try it. Basically all this allows you to do anyway is to view the photo larger than shown inside CFT. Maybe others may have some ideas. Ira Original Message: ----------------- From: Doug Cooper dlcooper@pobox.com Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 16:17:50 -0400 To: CFT-WIN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [CFTW] Play Media Problems I have my photos and other images stored in a single file within my "My Documents" folder (Not in CFT folder). When I select and individual "edit individual" (I can see thumbnails) and then click on "media", I can see the thumbnails fine. But when I select an image and click "Play Media" , my image program comes up fine but then gives message "Cannot find the file C:\Documents......". Since the message does not present the entire address of the image, I do not know for sure where it is looking. I have tried using three different image programs. Doug Cooper 4115 Crab Orchard Rd. Huddleston, VA 24104 WA4JSS 540 297 7614 Cell- 434 851 6015 dlcooper@pobox.com ==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe from CFT-WIN, send an e-mail message to: CFT-WIN-L-request@rootsweb.com (for individual messages) CFT-WIN-D-request@rootsweb.com (for Digest mode) Subject: unsubscribe In the body include only one word: unsubscribe (Turn OFF your signature file when sending this command) -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .

I have my photos and other images stored in a single file within my "My Documents" folder (Not in CFT folder). When I select and individual "edit individual" (I can see thumbnails) and then click on "media", I can see the thumbnails fine. But when I select an image and click "Play Media" , my image program comes up fine but then gives message "Cannot find the file C:\Documents......". Since the message does not present the entire address of the image, I do not know for sure where it is looking. I have tried using three different image programs. Doug Cooper 4115 Crab Orchard Rd. Huddleston, VA 24104 WA4JSS 540 297 7614 Cell- 434 851 6015 dlcooper@pobox.com

Hi I am trying the free cft I put perents name in and added 5 children now when I go to this page the children are listed twice with the same number and if I delet 1 they both go als so i have added a partner for one person when i go back down through the tree the partner is there but if i come up the tree from the ggranddad the partner is gone ???? any idears ????? Faith

Sounds like the database got corrupted. Perhaps by a shut down of the computer without a closing of the CFT program? Try the Rebuild (Tools Menu). Then correct the errors - using Disconnect and Connect (Individual Menu - Fix Relationship). Ira ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Mr. Ira J. Lund Cumberland Family Software www.cf-software.com -----Original Message----- From: Faith [mailto:mock7@uq.net.au] Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 9:28 AM To: CFT-WIN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [CFTW] help Hi I am trying the free cft I put perents name in and added 5 children now when I go to this page the children are listed twice with the same number and if I delet 1 they both go als so i have added a partner for one person when i go back down through the tree the partner is there but if i come up the tree from the ggranddad the partner is gone ???? any idears ????? Faith ==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== You can contact the List Manager at: CFT-WIN-admin@rootsweb.com

Hi George: It is interesting how this nice, friendly, cooperative list has deteriorated. David Cushing, a longtime member. [quote] Don't argue with me about this -- don't criticize me, nor try to second-guess me. SUBJECT CLOSED !!!!! Regards, George W. Durman CFT-WIN Mailing List Manager [unquote

Concerning the survey, I will go ahead and add my (hopefully last) comment. I do not have strong feelings one way or the other about this controversy. However, I will tell you all that George Durman, who manages this list, knows a lot more concerning the Rootsweb rules than I do (and likely most of the rest on this list). I can also tell you that he does not get paid for this, but has freely offered his time to "me" most of all - since it is my software we are dealing with - and I do make money on it (not a lot - but some) - and I have never paid George a dime for his help. I can also tell you that I do not pay Rootsweb for this service either. And if they have rules then we ought to abide by them. I very much appreciate all the help George has given with the list. And I appreciate all who use CFT - whether or not you agree with this stance. Thanks for your support and thanks for letting this controversy drop. Ira ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Mr. Ira J. Lund Cumberland Family Software www.cf-software.com

[quote] Don't argue with me about this -- don't criticize me, nor try to second-guess me. SUBJECT CLOSED !!!!! Regards, George W. Durman CFT-WIN Mailing List Manager [unquote So, to your unwillingness to entertain open discussion on a topic that is clearly relevant, you now add a large measure of breathtaking arrogance. Ira, I will not be treated in this way by this arrogant idiot. I will leave this forum forthwith and I will look for an alternative piece of software. Shame; CFT is a great piece of software - but association with extremists is not something that stands it in good stead. At 26-06-05 03:42 PM Sunday, Paul and Barbara Barrett wrote: *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >I am sorry but once again I have to take issue with you. > >You say this use of the mailing constitutes spam. Spam is defined as >unsolicited bulk eMail and by subscribing to your list, each and >everyone of >us has signed up for bulk, unsolicited eMail. Tacitly we have >agreed to be >spammed. OK, we signed up to a genealogy mailing list so our >expectation is >that the messages we receive should relate to that topic, and >anything that >is off topic should be regarded as spam. But the mail we received DID >relate to that topic so maybe we should only consider it spam if it had a >commercial aim. But it was not an attempt to sell us anything; it was an >academic enquiry. Spam also typically originates from spoofed addresses - >this one was from a genuine address. Let us just remember this was a >genuine enquiry from a student doing research into genealogy tools. >Perfectly on topic as far as I can see. I think that if we were to award >marks for 'spam-ness' then the originator at worst scores 5%, due to the >poor way the request was initially posted. > >The responses I saw from the other members of the mailing list were >enquiries about the status of the enquirer or positive replies. The >credentials of the originator were easy to establish and I did >so. I do not >recall seeing much, if any, complaint. > >So let's now consider the mailing list manager's response. The originator >has been forcibly unsubscribed from the mailing list. I believe that >response is disproportionate. It disappoints me that someone's >educational >studies can be hampered by censorship. An alternative name for a mailing >list manager is 'moderator,' a word which has an obvious root. Moderation >seems to have been in short supply in this case. > >Is it right to say, you can do what you wish but I disagree with you >all and >so as manager of the list I will enforce MY opinion by forcing the >subscriber off the forum. > >If that is the kind of forum you want to create, fine, but then >you'd better >remove me too, because it's not the kind of behaviour I want to be >associated with. > >Regards > > > >Paul Barrett > >-----Original Message----- >From: CFT-WIN List Manager [mailto:GeorgeWDurman@comcast.net] >Sent: 25 June 2005 09:00 >To: CFT-WIN-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CFTW] questionnaire of internet genealogy users >requirement survey > > >Folks, you can do as you wish, but I caution you to NOT respond to >this type of request. > >First of all, this person has made a list of Mailing Lists and has >probably sent his request to each List, after first subscribing to >the Lists. These Mailing Lists at Rootsweb were not intended for >such purposes. (It's called SPAMMING!) > >Regards, >George W. Durman >CFT-WIN Mailing List Manager > >At 13-06-05 11:41 AM Monday, Juan Du wrote: >*********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* > >Juan Du > > > >C/O Jeff Jones > > > >IMC, WMG > > > >University of Warwick > > > >CV4 7AL > > > >jdujojo@yahoo.co.uk > > > >Dear user: > > > >As part of my Masters degree in Electronic Business Management at > >Warwick University I am undertaking a study of the use of the > >internet for genealogical purposes. The purpose of this study is to > >identify the way in which genealogical internet sites make money and > >to understand the customer base. > > > >To facilitate this study you are invited to participate in an email > >survey questionnaire which is designed to investigate the user > >requirements for internet genealogy such as searching for ancestor > >history data, finding people, creating your family website and > >designing a family tree. In this survey, there are 20 questions and > >it will take approximately 10 minutes to complete. > > > >Your participation in this survey is voluntary but would be > >appreciated. If you take part and provide a contact email address a > >copy of the analysis of the survey will be sent to you upon > >completion. If at any time you feel uncomfortable answering any of > >the questions then please just ignore it and carry on with the next > >question. > >(snip) >**********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** > > >==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== >You can contact the List Manager at: >CFT-WIN-admin@rootsweb.com > > > > > >==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== >To unsubscribe from CFT-WIN, send an e-mail message to: > CFT-WIN-L-request@rootsweb.com (for individual messages) > CFT-WIN-D-request@rootsweb.com (for Digest mode) >Subject: unsubscribe >In the body include only one word: unsubscribe >(Turn OFF your signature file when sending this command) **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** ==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe from CFT-WIN, send an e-mail message to: CFT-WIN-L-request@rootsweb.com (for individual messages) CFT-WIN-D-request@rootsweb.com (for Digest mode) Subject: unsubscribe In the body include only one word: unsubscribe (Turn OFF your signature file when sending this command)

Hello, I'm very new to this mailing list and have been watching this topic for the past few days. If nothing has been taken out of context and in the absence of any significant private emails between the parties involved in this conversation, my reaction to the quote from George W. Durman matches that expressed by Paul Barrett below. Taking this a step further, I might add that Paul has presented a very convincing argument in favor of the fellow whose account was closed. Unfortunately, George has (for whatever reason) wielded his considerable power in a manner that has been perceived as being disrespectful. My suggestion would be to take this thing offline at this point because it has degraded to a personal level. I say this assuming there is a third party (perhaps Ira) who could effectively arbitrate the dispute. I hope Paul will reconsider his decision to drop CFT. Best Regards, Tim Nolan North Andover, Massachusetts, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul and Barbara Barrett" <paul.barrett@hornton.org.uk> To: <CFT-WIN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 7:30 AM Subject: RE: [CFTW] questionnaire of internet genealogy users requirement survey > > [quote] > Don't argue with me about this -- don't criticize me, nor try to > second-guess me. > > SUBJECT CLOSED !!!!! > Regards, > George W. Durman > CFT-WIN Mailing List Manager > [unquote > > So, to your unwillingness to entertain open discussion on a topic that is > clearly relevant, you now add a large measure of breathtaking arrogance. > > Ira, I will not be treated in this way by this arrogant idiot. I will leave > this forum forthwith and I will look for an alternative piece of software. > Shame; CFT is a great piece of software - but association with extremists is > not something that stands it in good stead. > > > > At 26-06-05 03:42 PM Sunday, Paul and Barbara Barrett wrote: > *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* > > >I am sorry but once again I have to take issue with you. > > > >You say this use of the mailing constitutes spam. Spam is defined as > >unsolicited bulk eMail and by subscribing to your list, each and > >everyone of > >us has signed up for bulk, unsolicited eMail. Tacitly we have > >agreed to be > >spammed. OK, we signed up to a genealogy mailing list so our > >expectation is > >that the messages we receive should relate to that topic, and > >anything that > >is off topic should be regarded as spam. But the mail we received DID > >relate to that topic so maybe we should only consider it spam if it had a > >commercial aim. But it was not an attempt to sell us anything; it was an > >academic enquiry. Spam also typically originates from spoofed addresses - > >this one was from a genuine address. Let us just remember this was a > >genuine enquiry from a student doing research into genealogy tools. > >Perfectly on topic as far as I can see. I think that if we were to award > >marks for 'spam-ness' then the originator at worst scores 5%, due to the > >poor way the request was initially posted. > > > >The responses I saw from the other members of the mailing list were > >enquiries about the status of the enquirer or positive replies. The > >credentials of the originator were easy to establish and I did > >so. I do not > >recall seeing much, if any, complaint. > > > >So let's now consider the mailing list manager's response. The originator > >has been forcibly unsubscribed from the mailing list. I believe that > >response is disproportionate. It disappoints me that someone's > >educational > >studies can be hampered by censorship. An alternative name for a mailing > >list manager is 'moderator,' a word which has an obvious root. Moderation > >seems to have been in short supply in this case. > > > >Is it right to say, you can do what you wish but I disagree with you > >all and > >so as manager of the list I will enforce MY opinion by forcing the > >subscriber off the forum. > > > >If that is the kind of forum you want to create, fine, but then > >you'd better > >remove me too, because it's not the kind of behaviour I want to be > >associated with. > > > >Regards > > > > > > > >Paul Barrett > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: CFT-WIN List Manager [mailto:GeorgeWDurman@comcast.net] > >Sent: 25 June 2005 09:00 > >To: CFT-WIN-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: Re: [CFTW] questionnaire of internet genealogy users > >requirement survey > > > > > >Folks, you can do as you wish, but I caution you to NOT respond to > >this type of request. > > > >First of all, this person has made a list of Mailing Lists and has > >probably sent his request to each List, after first subscribing to > >the Lists. These Mailing Lists at Rootsweb were not intended for > >such purposes. (It's called SPAMMING!) > > > >Regards, > >George W. Durman > >CFT-WIN Mailing List Manager > > > >At 13-06-05 11:41 AM Monday, Juan Du wrote: > >*********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* > > >Juan Du > > > > > >C/O Jeff Jones > > > > > >IMC, WMG > > > > > >University of Warwick > > > > > >CV4 7AL > > > > > >jdujojo@yahoo.co.uk > > > > > >Dear user: > > > > > >As part of my Masters degree in Electronic Business Management at > > >Warwick University I am undertaking a study of the use of the > > >internet for genealogical purposes. The purpose of this study is to > > >identify the way in which genealogical internet sites make money and > > >to understand the customer base. > > > > > >To facilitate this study you are invited to participate in an email > > >survey questionnaire which is designed to investigate the user > > >requirements for internet genealogy such as searching for ancestor > > >history data, finding people, creating your family website and > > >designing a family tree. In this survey, there are 20 questions and > > >it will take approximately 10 minutes to complete. > > > > > >Your participation in this survey is voluntary but would be > > >appreciated. If you take part and provide a contact email address a > > >copy of the analysis of the survey will be sent to you upon > > >completion. If at any time you feel uncomfortable answering any of > > >the questions then please just ignore it and carry on with the next > > >question. > > >(snip) > >**********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** > > > > > >==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== > >You can contact the List Manager at: > >CFT-WIN-admin@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > >==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== > >To unsubscribe from CFT-WIN, send an e-mail message to: > > CFT-WIN-L-request@rootsweb.com (for individual messages) > > CFT-WIN-D-request@rootsweb.com (for Digest mode) > >Subject: unsubscribe > >In the body include only one word: unsubscribe > >(Turn OFF your signature file when sending this command) > **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** > > > ==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from CFT-WIN, send an e-mail message to: > CFT-WIN-L-request@rootsweb.com (for individual messages) > CFT-WIN-D-request@rootsweb.com (for Digest mode) > Subject: unsubscribe > In the body include only one word: unsubscribe > (Turn OFF your signature file when sending this command) > > > > > > ==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from CFT-WIN, send an e-mail message to: > CFT-WIN-L-request@rootsweb.com (for individual messages) > CFT-WIN-D-request@rootsweb.com (for Digest mode) > Subject: unsubscribe > In the body include only one word: unsubscribe > (Turn OFF your signature file when sending this command) >

But what does all this have to do with a Mailing List where the subject is supposed to be CFTW? You, and others, forget (or don't realize) how much junk is archived on the Rootsweb/Ancestry systems as a result of off-topic posts AND REPLIES TO THEM! Again, thread is CLOSED !!!!! I will send a warning to anyone continuing the subject after this notice is posted to the List. Regards, George W. Durman CFT-WIN Mailing List Manager At 26-06-05 06:13 PM Sunday, Theo Perry wrote: *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >I must agree with Paul Barrett. > >A search for the name brought up several people, all of whom were >female. My next step was to go to the web site of the University, >and on the staff email address list was the staff member referred to. > >These simple searches took only a couple of minutes and satisfied >me that there was nothing underhanded about this request, > >We are all on this list because we use the internet, in part at >least, to further our knowledge. This person is doing exactly that. > >It is a shame this list must be so tightly focussed on one topic. If >we are to be suspicious and resentful to the extent that a student >seeking help with her studies must be struck from the list, then >that is sad. > >No one had to take part and there was only the one submission from >this person. > >I, for one, wish this person well with her project. > >Theo Perry > > >==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== >To unsubscribe from CFT-WIN, send an e-mail message to: > CFT-WIN-L-request@rootsweb.com (for individual messages) > CFT-WIN-D-request@rootsweb.com (for Digest mode) >Subject: unsubscribe >In the body include only one word: unsubscribe >(Turn OFF your signature file when sending this command) **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT***********

Paul, again, rules are rules. The post, no matter how well intentioned and how worthwhile, WAS OFF-TOPIC. As a good example of what such off-topic posting does, look at the number of responses/replies posted here in the past few days! Rootsweb/Ancestry makes the rules; managers are expected to enforce the rules, which includes manually unsubscribing anyone who SPAMS a List. Don't argue with me about this -- don't criticize me, nor try to second-guess me. SUBJECT CLOSED !!!!! Discussion of this thread is now OFF-TOPIC. Let's let it die, and get back to the real purpose of the List. Regards, George W. Durman CFT-WIN Mailing List Manager At 26-06-05 03:42 PM Sunday, Paul and Barbara Barrett wrote: *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >I am sorry but once again I have to take issue with you. > >You say this use of the mailing constitutes spam. Spam is defined as >unsolicited bulk eMail and by subscribing to your list, each and >everyone of >us has signed up for bulk, unsolicited eMail. Tacitly we have >agreed to be >spammed. OK, we signed up to a genealogy mailing list so our >expectation is >that the messages we receive should relate to that topic, and >anything that >is off topic should be regarded as spam. But the mail we received DID >relate to that topic so maybe we should only consider it spam if it had a >commercial aim. But it was not an attempt to sell us anything; it was an >academic enquiry. Spam also typically originates from spoofed addresses - >this one was from a genuine address. Let us just remember this was a >genuine enquiry from a student doing research into genealogy tools. >Perfectly on topic as far as I can see. I think that if we were to award >marks for 'spam-ness' then the originator at worst scores 5%, due to the >poor way the request was initially posted. > >The responses I saw from the other members of the mailing list were >enquiries about the status of the enquirer or positive replies. The >credentials of the originator were easy to establish and I did >so. I do not >recall seeing much, if any, complaint. > >So let's now consider the mailing list manager's response. The originator >has been forcibly unsubscribed from the mailing list. I believe that >response is disproportionate. It disappoints me that someone's >educational >studies can be hampered by censorship. An alternative name for a mailing >list manager is 'moderator,' a word which has an obvious root. Moderation >seems to have been in short supply in this case. > >Is it right to say, you can do what you wish but I disagree with you >all and >so as manager of the list I will enforce MY opinion by forcing the >subscriber off the forum. > >If that is the kind of forum you want to create, fine, but then >you'd better >remove me too, because it's not the kind of behaviour I want to be >associated with. > >Regards > > > >Paul Barrett > >-----Original Message----- >From: CFT-WIN List Manager [mailto:GeorgeWDurman@comcast.net] >Sent: 25 June 2005 09:00 >To: CFT-WIN-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [CFTW] questionnaire of internet genealogy users >requirement survey > > >Folks, you can do as you wish, but I caution you to NOT respond to >this type of request. > >First of all, this person has made a list of Mailing Lists and has >probably sent his request to each List, after first subscribing to >the Lists. These Mailing Lists at Rootsweb were not intended for >such purposes. (It's called SPAMMING!) > >Regards, >George W. Durman >CFT-WIN Mailing List Manager > >At 13-06-05 11:41 AM Monday, Juan Du wrote: >*********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* > >Juan Du > > > >C/O Jeff Jones > > > >IMC, WMG > > > >University of Warwick > > > >CV4 7AL > > > >jdujojo@yahoo.co.uk > > > >Dear user: > > > >As part of my Masters degree in Electronic Business Management at > >Warwick University I am undertaking a study of the use of the > >internet for genealogical purposes. The purpose of this study is to > >identify the way in which genealogical internet sites make money and > >to understand the customer base. > > > >To facilitate this study you are invited to participate in an email > >survey questionnaire which is designed to investigate the user > >requirements for internet genealogy such as searching for ancestor > >history data, finding people, creating your family website and > >designing a family tree. In this survey, there are 20 questions and > >it will take approximately 10 minutes to complete. > > > >Your participation in this survey is voluntary but would be > >appreciated. If you take part and provide a contact email address a > >copy of the analysis of the survey will be sent to you upon > >completion. If at any time you feel uncomfortable answering any of > >the questions then please just ignore it and carry on with the next > >question. > >(snip) >**********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** > > >==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== >You can contact the List Manager at: >CFT-WIN-admin@rootsweb.com > > > > > >==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== >To unsubscribe from CFT-WIN, send an e-mail message to: > CFT-WIN-L-request@rootsweb.com (for individual messages) > CFT-WIN-D-request@rootsweb.com (for Digest mode) >Subject: unsubscribe >In the body include only one word: unsubscribe >(Turn OFF your signature file when sending this command) **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT***********

The rules at Rootsweb have always been that if an individual is doing research such as this, he/she should contact the List managers and get permission for such a post, WHICH IS CLEARLY OFF TOPIC, and the manager MAY give permission for such an off-topic email. Yes it is probably worthwhile and commendable, but it does not adhere to the topic of this Mailing List. There ARE other Lists at Rootsweb for this very thing. He SPAMMED the List, and by doing so SPAMMED hundreds of subscribers! What else do you call it? There does not have to be any money involved, or buying or selling, for "unwanted, unsolicited email" to be SPAM. As I said, had he emailed me as the List manager, I would probably have given permission after checking with the folks at Rootsweb to make sure it did not violate any of their policies. What we often forget is that Rootsweb/Ancestry provides Mailing List services free of charge, and can certainly make the rules as they see fit. As managers, we agree to run the Lists the way Rootsweb wants them run. Regards, George W. Durman CFT-WIN List Manager At 25-06-05 05:44 AM Saturday, Paul and Barbara Barrett wrote: *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >I have to disagree. > >While he could clearly have done more to present his request in a less >concerning light, nevertheless he is a genuine student trying to perform a >college project related to the use of the web to support genealogy - which >of us would disagree with the worthiness of his subject? He checks >out, as >my earlier post to this forum confirmed. > >Yes, he should have gone about in a slightly different way, perhaps >getting >his tutor to include some support. But you'll note he did ask for >help and >only sent the questionnaire to those that responded. Nor did he >hide behind >a spoofed address. He did not spam anyone. > >Regards > >Paul Barrett > >-----Original Message----- >From: George W. Durman [mailto:GeorgeWDurman@comcast.net] >Sent: 25 June 2005 09:04 >To: CFT-WIN-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: RE: [CFTW] questionnaire of internet genealogy users >requirement survey > > >Ian, > >He WAS subscribed, but I manually un-subscribed him. I'm sorry, but >Rootsweb frowns on this type of solicitation. It is just another >form of SPAMMING. It's especially bad when he has evidently sent >identical queries to many, many Rootsweb Lists. It's as bad as those >junk envelopes one gets every day in his/her USPS mailbox. > >George > >At 13-06-05 06:09 PM Monday, you wrote: >*********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* > > >George (CFT-Win List Administrator), > > > >Because of the nature of this query from someone who perhaps does > not own > >CFT, I was wondering if you could check to see if Juan is subscribed > >to the > >List. If he is not, those who wish to participate will need to > email Juan > >directly rather than by responding to CFT-WIN-L@rootsweb.com. > > > >Ira > >(snip) >**********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** > > >==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== >You can contact the List Manager at: >CFT-WIN-admin@rootsweb.com > > > > > >==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== >You can contact the List Manager at: >CFT-WIN-admin@rootsweb.com **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT***********

I must agree with Paul Barrett. A search for the name brought up several people, all of whom were female. My next step was to go to the web site of the University, and on the staff email address list was the staff member referred to. These simple searches took only a couple of minutes and satisfied me that there was nothing underhanded about this request, We are all on this list because we use the internet, in part at least, to further our knowledge. This person is doing exactly that. It is a shame this list must be so tightly focussed on one topic. If we are to be suspicious and resentful to the extent that a student seeking help with her studies must be struck from the list, then that is sad. No one had to take part and there was only the one submission from this person. I, for one, wish this person well with her project. Theo Perry

I am sorry but once again I have to take issue with you. You say this use of the mailing constitutes spam. Spam is defined as unsolicited bulk eMail and by subscribing to your list, each and everyone of us has signed up for bulk, unsolicited eMail. Tacitly we have agreed to be spammed. OK, we signed up to a genealogy mailing list so our expectation is that the messages we receive should relate to that topic, and anything that is off topic should be regarded as spam. But the mail we received DID relate to that topic so maybe we should only consider it spam if it had a commercial aim. But it was not an attempt to sell us anything; it was an academic enquiry. Spam also typically originates from spoofed addresses - this one was from a genuine address. Let us just remember this was a genuine enquiry from a student doing research into genealogy tools. Perfectly on topic as far as I can see. I think that if we were to award marks for 'spam-ness' then the originator at worst scores 5%, due to the poor way the request was initially posted. The responses I saw from the other members of the mailing list were enquiries about the status of the enquirer or positive replies. The credentials of the originator were easy to establish and I did so. I do not recall seeing much, if any, complaint. So let's now consider the mailing list manager's response. The originator has been forcibly unsubscribed from the mailing list. I believe that response is disproportionate. It disappoints me that someone's educational studies can be hampered by censorship. An alternative name for a mailing list manager is 'moderator,' a word which has an obvious root. Moderation seems to have been in short supply in this case. Is it right to say, you can do what you wish but I disagree with you all and so as manager of the list I will enforce MY opinion by forcing the subscriber off the forum. If that is the kind of forum you want to create, fine, but then you'd better remove me too, because it's not the kind of behaviour I want to be associated with. Regards Paul Barrett -----Original Message----- From: CFT-WIN List Manager [mailto:GeorgeWDurman@comcast.net] Sent: 25 June 2005 09:00 To: CFT-WIN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [CFTW] questionnaire of internet genealogy users requirement survey Folks, you can do as you wish, but I caution you to NOT respond to this type of request. First of all, this person has made a list of Mailing Lists and has probably sent his request to each List, after first subscribing to the Lists. These Mailing Lists at Rootsweb were not intended for such purposes. (It's called SPAMMING!) Regards, George W. Durman CFT-WIN Mailing List Manager At 13-06-05 11:41 AM Monday, Juan Du wrote: *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >Juan Du > >C/O Jeff Jones > >IMC, WMG > >University of Warwick > >CV4 7AL > >jdujojo@yahoo.co.uk > >Dear user: > >As part of my Masters degree in Electronic Business Management at >Warwick University I am undertaking a study of the use of the >internet for genealogical purposes. The purpose of this study is to >identify the way in which genealogical internet sites make money and >to understand the customer base. > >To facilitate this study you are invited to participate in an email >survey questionnaire which is designed to investigate the user >requirements for internet genealogy such as searching for ancestor >history data, finding people, creating your family website and >designing a family tree. In this survey, there are 20 questions and >it will take approximately 10 minutes to complete. > >Your participation in this survey is voluntary but would be >appreciated. If you take part and provide a contact email address a >copy of the analysis of the survey will be sent to you upon >completion. If at any time you feel uncomfortable answering any of >the questions then please just ignore it and carry on with the next >question. >(snip) **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** ==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== You can contact the List Manager at: CFT-WIN-admin@rootsweb.com

I have to disagree. While he could clearly have done more to present his request in a less concerning light, nevertheless he is a genuine student trying to perform a college project related to the use of the web to support genealogy - which of us would disagree with the worthiness of his subject? He checks out, as my earlier post to this forum confirmed. Yes, he should have gone about in a slightly different way, perhaps getting his tutor to include some support. But you'll note he did ask for help and only sent the questionnaire to those that responded. Nor did he hide behind a spoofed address. He did not spam anyone. Regards Paul Barrett -----Original Message----- From: George W. Durman [mailto:GeorgeWDurman@comcast.net] Sent: 25 June 2005 09:04 To: CFT-WIN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [CFTW] questionnaire of internet genealogy users requirement survey Ian, He WAS subscribed, but I manually un-subscribed him. I'm sorry, but Rootsweb frowns on this type of solicitation. It is just another form of SPAMMING. It's especially bad when he has evidently sent identical queries to many, many Rootsweb Lists. It's as bad as those junk envelopes one gets every day in his/her USPS mailbox. George At 13-06-05 06:09 PM Monday, you wrote: *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >George (CFT-Win List Administrator), > >Because of the nature of this query from someone who perhaps does not own >CFT, I was wondering if you could check to see if Juan is subscribed >to the >List. If he is not, those who wish to participate will need to email Juan >directly rather than by responding to CFT-WIN-L@rootsweb.com. > >Ira >(snip) **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** ==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== You can contact the List Manager at: CFT-WIN-admin@rootsweb.com