At 07:20 AM 10/3/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Knowing this I wonder if users who report LUND font and OCX installation >problems could report what version they are using, perhaps we could narrow >it down that it is B version or maybe Win98 that is causing the problem? > It just dawned on me! It may be that users reporting most of these problems are still using the original installation and haven't upgraded with ANY of the available updates. As I stated in the previous message, open Control Panel, then open System. If you see 4.00.950 and there is no "a" or "b" after that number, you have not upgraded. You definitely need to download and install the updates. SgtGeorge Listowner

At 07:20 AM 10/3/98 -0500, Ira J. Lund wrote: >Since we are talking about problems with Windows 95, how many versions of >it are there anyway? > >One thing I have always expected was for the version number to be ont he >Help - About, but if I click on my computer and do a Help - About Windows >95, I don't get the full version number. It only tells me it is "Windows >95" - I already knew that! It seems that if I do a right click on My >Computer and go to properties I then get a window that tells me I have >Version "4.00.950". Is this the same as the "A" version that someone >mentioned? I saw a mention of an A and a B version. An easier way to view the Version is to open Control Panel and then open System. The very first tab, General, will give the version number. There are basically three versions: 4.00.950, which is the original Win95 that was distributed; 4.00.950a, which shows that this is OSR1, i.e., Release 1, which was an update to "fix" some of the bugs and glitches of the original release; 4.00.950b, which was only obtained by buying a system that had Release 2 installed. Release 1 can be downloaded from Microsoft's web site; Release 2 cannot; however, many of the fixes and updates of both Release 2 AND Win98 can be downloaded and installed over the original Win95 or Release 1. If users still have 4.00.950, they should DEFINITELY logon to MS and get all the fixes for the various .dll files, Network Dialup, and other utilities and files, AFTER first downloading and installing Release 1. These actions will solve many, but not all, problems with Win95. SgtGeorge Listowner >Knowing this I wonder if users who report LUND font and OCX installation >problems could report what version they are using, perhaps we could narrow >it down that it is B version or maybe Win98 that is causing the problem? > >Ira > >---------------------------------------------------------- > Ira J. Lund > Cumberland Family Software, Clarksville, Tennessee, USA > Genealogy Software for Beginners and Professionals > E-mail: ira.lund@cf-software.com > http://www.cf-software.com >

At 07:20 AM 10/3/1998 -0500, you wrote: > >Knowing this I wonder if users who report LUND font and OCX installation >problems could report what version they are using, perhaps we could narrow >it down that it is B version or maybe Win98 that is causing the problem? Sorry, but the LUND font installation problem still exists with Windows98. (No version number listed on my Help "About windows 98" menu.) CFTW: "32 Bit version 2.32x for Windows 95" (no claims for NT or Windows 98, eh?).

At 11:47 PM 10/2/1998 -0500, you wrote: >>If you read my previous email, you should infer that there ARE serious >>problems with all versions of Win95.... >> >>SgtGeorge >> >I'll agree with George on most of the things he said about Win95. > >I have had many problems with Win95 (A and B). > >I changed to Win98 upgrade and things got a little better, but I found out >that the upgrade just added more fluff on top of the Win95 problems which >were still on my PC. >Vic. I found Norton Utilities (not their Virus program) along with Cleansweep to keep the freezups minimal in Windows 95 (version A). However, once on Windows 98 there have so far only been one freezeup in a week instead of a couple a day, and this did not involve CFTW (latest version). Windows 98 does have more "fluff" in it, and I will try to figure out how to clean of not wanted "features". Any help in this department is appreciated, though I have 80 more days or so I can still bug Microsoft for free (except for long distance phone charges) advice.

Since we are talking about problems with Windows 95, how many versions of it are there anyway? One thing I have always expected was for the version number to be ont he Help - About, but if I click on my computer and do a Help - About Windows 95, I don't get the full version number. It only tells me it is "Windows 95" - I already knew that! It seems that if I do a right click on My Computer and go to properties I then get a window that tells me I have Version "4.00.950". Is this the same as the "A" version that someone mentioned? I saw a mention of an A and a B version. Knowing this I wonder if users who report LUND font and OCX installation problems could report what version they are using, perhaps we could narrow it down that it is B version or maybe Win98 that is causing the problem? Ira ---------------------------------------------------------- Ira J. Lund Cumberland Family Software, Clarksville, Tennessee, USA Genealogy Software for Beginners and Professionals E-mail: ira.lund@cf-software.com http://www.cf-software.com

G'day Ira, >>BTW - I do note that N-Key is written for both Name Search and Bookmark in >>the dropdown menus but B-Key works in the latter. > >I assume you are talking about CFT-Win 3 beta 1 as 2.32 looks okay. Yes. HURU, Mike

>If you read my previous email, you should infer that there ARE serious >problems with all versions of Win95, depending on the OTHER software >that is on the system. You DON'T have to be running the other software >for problems to crop up in CFT or other programs. It has to do with the >files that have been loaded when Win95 starts, files that cause major >conflicts within Win95 itself. > >So, IMHO, 99.9999% of the problems that users have with CFT, are >system-related. It would indeed be nice if Ira could write a program >that would never "crash" in Win95 or '98; however, in order to do that, >Ira would have to go through the entire code for Win95 and then go >through the code for ALL other programs that cause conflicts in Win95, >in order to produce a "perfect" CFT. That is just NOT going to happen >since it would take years and years. CFT is one of the best "behaved" >programs that a Win95 or Win95 user can expect. Heck, I've been >doing this "computer" thing from way back when Ira made his DOS >version 1.0 available to the general public. I'll bet I have logged more >hours on my system than anyone subscribed to this List. If you >don't believe me, just ask my wife! (GRIN) > >Greg, let's face it, Win95 was, and is, so full of bugs it is a wonder >that any of us can successfully use it today. I love it, recommend >it, and support it -- BUT, that does not mean that it is flawless, nor >that I will say so. Ninety-nine percent of the problems experienced >with CFT (excluding those that Ira specifically acknowledges) are >caused by some conflict or another in the Win95 operating environ- >ment. > >SgtGeorge > I'll agree with George on most of the things he said about Win95. I started using the DOS version of CFT about 6 or so years ago, and have never had any major problems with it on DOS, Windows 3.1, WFW 3.11, Win95 and Win98 which I'm now using. I have had many problems with Win95 (A and B). Settings kept getting changed by Win95 as it thought that it was the proper to do. Lock ups and GPF's were frequent and caused loss of data. Calls to the hard drive mfgr, the maker of my SCSI card, the computer mfgr, the BIOS maker, and hours with Microsoft could not resolve the problem. The consensus was that I should change to Win98 (and while it could not cure all my problems) because at least it would be easier to fix the problem. I changed to Win98 upgrade and things got a little better, but I found out that the upgrade just added more fluff on top of the Win95 problems which were still on my PC. It was suggested that I clean EVERYTHING off my hard drive, run fdisk, and then format my harddrive. I did this and made what they call a CLEAN installation of Win98. Things are now a whole lot better. Have had no more crashes but have had two freeze ups during one month. When the freeze up occurred, I just hit the reset key and it restarts. Win98 automatically runs Scandisk which corrects everything and my system is fine again. I do not own any MS stock, but offer the above info in hopes that it will help our CFT friends. Vic.

At 09:31 AM 10/2/98 -0500, Greg Tomerlin wrote: > >And by the way, the slams against Win95 might be warranted, but they are >otherwise unfounded in my experience. In the year and a half I've been >running Win95, and daily at that, I have experienced no real problems. I >(SNIP) Greg, they were not "slams", just explanations of "real time" problems. You are indeed one of the fortunate users who doesn't, sooner or later, have prob- lems with conflicts in Win95. I have NEVER had even a small problem with CFT, whatever version, BUT..... I HAVE had problems with other programs AND with Win95, that, after exhaustive correspondence with MS and the programmers of these other programs, I have found to be a result of some conflict or other with drivers, .dll files, etc. If you read my previous email, you should infer that there ARE serious problems with all versions of Win95, depending on the OTHER software that is on the system. You DON'T have to be running the other software for problems to crop up in CFT or other programs. It has to do with the files that have been loaded when Win95 starts, files that cause major conflicts within Win95 itself. So, IMHO, 99.9999% of the problems that users have with CFT, are system-related. It would indeed be nice if Ira could write a program that would never "crash" in Win95 or '98; however, in order to do that, Ira would have to go through the entire code for Win95 and then go through the code for ALL other programs that cause conflicts in Win95, in order to produce a "perfect" CFT. That is just NOT going to happen since it would take years and years. CFT is one of the best "behaved" programs that a Win95 or Win95 user can expect. Heck, I've been doing this "computer" thing from way back when Ira made his DOS version 1.0 available to the general public. I'll bet I have logged more hours on my system than anyone subscribed to this List. If you don't believe me, just ask my wife! (GRIN) Greg, let's face it, Win95 was, and is, so full of bugs it is a wonder that any of us can successfully use it today. I love it, recommend it, and support it -- BUT, that does not mean that it is flawless, nor that I will say so. Ninety-nine percent of the problems experienced with CFT (excluding those that Ira specifically acknowledges) are caused by some conflict or another in the Win95 operating environ- ment. SgtGeorge

>My guess is that a good number of CFTW users experience >this freeze-up problem, but because it is not too serious, and because most >people simply accept and expect a few hang-ups (shucks, most folks would >never even write to the author of a program, regardless of the size of the >problem), that this type and size of problem generally goes unnoticed by the >author. Since my e-mail is inside the program and I sell 99% through the internet, I would think that I might get more feedback than a typical off the shelf software package - at least as a ratio to the number of users. I try to be responsive to every e-mail I receive and especially through this Mailing List where I do try to respond to questions and problems, I think people are more inclined to talk with me. Of course when I can't help (such as with the lockup you are experiencing) they give up. But this is the first I had heard of this problem so I assume it is quite rare. As mentioned in another message, I get more problems with the Lund Fonts and the OCX registering. >Finally, this problem is no big deal, and I am otherwise very pleased with >CFTW. When asked by others which software package is "the best," I always >tell them CFTW is my favorite. Thanks for the support! It is always appreciated. Ira ---------------------------------------------------------- Ira J. Lund Cumberland Family Software, Clarksville, Tennessee, USA Genealogy Software for Beginners and Professionals E-mail: ira.lund@cf-software.com http://www.cf-software.com

>Something that would draw ot a family tree to include all the siblings in a >boxes on a family tree design? A Descendant Box Chart in Ver 2 is evidently not what you have in mind? The problem I struggle with (and I am sure all family tree programmers) is that there can be any number of children in a family and you can get constrained with paper size. Therefore, the Descendant Box chart shows children vertically where it will roll to the next page if number of children exceeds the space on page. I will try to improve this in Ver 3. Also intend on a Wall Chart type where there will be less constraint due to paper space since you then tape the next page to the right. But these type of Wall charts won't be good for books. >Some sort of Data page that could serve as a title page or an introductory set >of notes for a whole family - to save putting the same notes into all family >member files. I'd like to be able to have a sort of "all this family came to >-- from .. in .. because of .. searches reveal they were related to .. >employed .. where .. and blah blah" Well..... I think that there are things to cover what you want to do. I would have to know more about what you really wanted to do to offer a suggestion. For example, you could enter some text into a Document and tie that as a source to any number of people. However, that would be more viewed a source - such as a "will" or text extract of some source document. If you are talking about an "event" in a person's life - such as a family migration you will likely have to do some copying of notes (in an "immigration" event). There are "couple" events which are tied to two people and the data is not duplicated though it shows up on both husband and wife list of events. I had considered a "family" event for a time where an event would be tied to parents and all children, but after some long contemplation on this (even started programming it) I changed my mind. Became too complex - lots of issues - for example suppose you had a family "immigration" event - but the family immigrated before ALL children were born, then you create more complexities. However, there is now (Ver 3) the capability to copy and past events from one person to another, so you could duplicate the entire event quickly and not just the note (clipboard copy and paste). >Some more detailed way of organising sources into sub sets - One reference >book, then to different pages, or a header "Birth Cert" and then possible >different options - e.g. obtained date ? My source list is runing into >hundreds of entries now and, I'm worried it'll go bust, never mind the time it >takes. Yes. A definite improvement that has already been implemented in Ver 3. You have Source References (such as the book) and Source Details (the pages in the book). This way it has an heiarchy with some structure. Also you will be able to tie multiple sources to each individual or event. You can tie the Reference, the Source or even a Document as a source to an event or individual. ---------------------------------------------------------- Ira J. Lund Cumberland Family Software, Clarksville, Tennessee, USA Genealogy Software for Beginners and Professionals E-mail: ira.lund@cf-software.com http://www.cf-software.com

>BTW - I do note that N-Key is written for both Name Search and Bookmark in >the dropdown menus but B-Key works in the latter. I assume you are talking about CFT-Win 3 beta 1 as 2.32 looks okay. Anyway, have done a lot to Ver 3. Ira ---------------------------------------------------------- Ira J. Lund Cumberland Family Software, Clarksville, Tennessee, USA Genealogy Software for Beginners and Professionals E-mail: ira.lund@cf-software.com http://www.cf-software.com

George, your long message about all the conflicts with Windows 95 and other software is quite useful. Your suggestions sound good about getting the latest drivers. I invariably get the occaisional question about some problem that I know is working fine for 99% of the rest of my users - and I am flabergasted how to help. On rare occaisions I do get the insistance from some users that the fault is in CFT-Win. I help with ideas best I can but if I can't help - I can't help. I think I shall try to keep this explanation of yours (George) and include part of it in the CFT-Win 3 help and manual. Some of the recent problems are dealing with the LUND Fonts - which some users MUST edit the registry directly to get them to work. Even the Fonts Icon in Control Panel won't install the fonts. This one really gets me. The other is that I have gotten one or two who cannot get the vspell32.ocx and xceedzip.ocx to register. They claim to have entered everything properly - even getting the "successfully registered" message but still get an error when CFT-Win starts telling them that it is not registered. Just totally baffles me! Makes me wonder if this is a Windows 98 problem as these are more recent problems seen over the past few months though I have been using the Fonts and OCX's for a couple of years. So far I have not discovered the common denominator that is causing these problems. Thanks, Ira ---------------------------------------------------------- Ira J. Lund Cumberland Family Software, Clarksville, Tennessee, USA Genealogy Software for Beginners and Professionals E-mail: ira.lund@cf-software.com http://www.cf-software.com

>I would think that it is something fishy about these computers, Ira, (and all who replied) First, thanks for replying. Second, your diagnosis might very well be the case. However, know that these freeze-ups do not occur everytime I hit the "N" key while scrolled down deep into the list of children. Likewise, it seems to me that other programs that are open and running at the time (when, if fact, other programs are open and running, which isn't always the case) would be effected. That is not so. All other programs, including the OS (Win95), continue to operate as expected. In addition, the solution mentioned by Don McKee (ReStart > EndTask) seems to be the only way out. The last time this event occured, I continued to use other programs, as well as open other programs, with no ill-effect, while CFTW continued to run in the background it in its stalled state hoping that it would eventually wake up. It didn't. For the record, Joseph, I am running Win95 4.00.950 B, and CFTW 2.32x. I forget there are other platforms out there. And by the way, the slams against Win95 might be warranted, but they are otherwise unfounded in my experience. In the year and a half I've been running Win95, and daily at that, I have experienced no real problems. I love it. On the other hand, my father has a new system running Win98, and he has had nothing but problems. The thing stays locked up, and has in fact been in the shop more often than out. Blaming the OS seems a cheap and easy way to explain away a potential problem. Again, these freeze-ups are not that big of a problem. They rarely occur, and they don't seem to effect the content of my data files (thank heavens). I mentioned them just to see if others were experiencing similar events. Apparently some are. Which brings up another question... How can you know that any given problem is system-specific? My guess is that a good number of CFTW users experience this freeze-up problem, but because it is not too serious, and because most people simply accept and expect a few hang-ups (shucks, most folks would never even write to the author of a program, regardless of the size of the problem), that this type and size of problem generally goes unnoticed by the author. I guess my question is, how many systems would need to be effected for a system-specific problem to become otherwise? Finally, this problem is no big deal, and I am otherwise very pleased with CFTW. When asked by others which software package is "the best," I always tell them CFTW is my favorite. Thanks again for all your replies. Greg Tomerlin Lebanon, TN greg.tomerlin@nashville.com

I am very happy with my CFT 2.32, but if you are working on a new version, could you look at: Something that would draw ot a family tree to include all the siblings in a boxes on a family tree design? At present I have to import a gedcom into Brother's Keeper to do this. Some sort of Data page that could serve as a title page or an introductory set of notes for a whole family - to save putting the same notes into all family member files. I'd like to be able to have a sort of "all this family came to -- from .. in .. because of .. searches reveal they were related to .. employed .. where .. and blah blah" Some more detailed way of organising sources into sub sets - One reference book, then to different pages, or a header "Birth Cert" and then possible different options - e.g. obtained date ? My source list is runing into hundreds of entries now and, I'm worried it'll go bust, never mind the time it takes. Just some thoughts .. as I say, still feel it's a great programme! best wishes, Moira

I am very happy with my CFT 2.32, but if you are working on a new version, could you look at: Something that would draw ot a family tree to include all the siblings in a boxes on a family tree design? At present I have to import a gedcom into Brother's Keeper to do this. Some sort of Data page that could serve as a title page or an introductory set of notes for a whole family - to save putting the same notes into all family member files. I'd like to be able to have a sort of "all this family came to -- from .. in .. because of .. searches reveal they were related to .. employed .. where .. and blah blah" Some more detailed way of organising sources into sub sets - One reference book, then to different pages, or a header "Birth Cert" and then possible different options - e.g. obtained date ? My source list is runing into hundreds of entries now and, I'm worried it'll go bust, never mind the time it takes. Just some thoughts .. as I say, still feel it's a great programme! best wishes, Moira

G'day Ira, Thanks for your replies. >>Also, would it be possible for say "%G" (for Given Name) or some such to >>allow a less formal sentence when needed. > >Well... there may be some cases where full name is wanted and others when >given is wanted. The story report will work where the full name is given at >the first and given name for subsequent events. I am not sure I made myself clear. I meant being able to use either "%G" or "%N" not just instead of. >In Beta 2 I have added some options where you can include or exclude the >paranthesis around the date. However, for the date you gave above I suggest >that you enter the year in a Normal date and perhaps a comment such as >"early in the year" in the free format date field then the sentence will read: > >Michael CALDER attended High School 1943 (early in the year) at Sydney Boys >High School. Yes, I now see the logic in the way you are thinking and the parenthesis make perfect sense. HURU, Mike

At 07:07 PM 10/1/98 -0500, Ira J. Lund wrote: > >I would think that it is something fishy about these computers, since I >just tried the exact same thing and it works fine on my computer - and I >suspect that it will work fine or more than 95% of Window 95s. This is not >a freeze-up that I believe I have any control over. Must have something to >do with specific computer configurations or some wierd version of Win95. > Ira, it has to do with both Win95 AND OTHER programs installed. Win95 is so flaky I am surprised these things don't happen more often. Win95 has terrible problems with .dll files (among others) that are installed by other programs. I have been having problems with Explorer, of all things, not Internet Explorer, but the main operant of Win95. It flakes out on me a couple of times a day. Found out that when QuickTime is installed, it installs some files that replace some basic Win95 files. Now these QT files are SUPPOSED to be 100% compatible, but unfortunately Win95 doesn't think so, or at least sometimes it doesn't think so. These files effect not only Win95 itself, but many other programs, so when a user is having problems with, say CFT for example, it is not CFT that is the culprit, but Win95 getting confused when some .dll file is called on to perform and that basic .dll is one replaced by some other program. Am I making sense? I know what I want to say but it isn't coming out right. Other programs that cause disaster with about 10% of Win95 users are Norton AntiVirus and McAfee Scan. There is no problem with these two programs themselves, they run perfectly. But, other programs in Win95 go haywire when either Norton or McAfee are in- stalled. This was discovered by contacting Microsoft and I was told that some users can't even run Win95 with these antivirus programs installed. I removed Norton BEFORE installing Win95 because I just didn't need it. I removed McAfee Scan this week after putting up with deadly system crashes long enough. Had a clean operating system ever since. While I'm here and on the subject, BEWARE OF PROGRAMS THAT CLEAN YOUR SYSTEM, DELETE DUPLICATES, DO "BEHIND THE SCENE" REPAIR & MAINTENANCE, ETC. There are a dozen or so major utilities that purport to do these things and just about every one of them will mess up one's system sooner or later. The worse is "Nuts and Bolts". Don't mean to bad-mouth it, but it is a killer on some systems. Two friends installed it and it not only deleted many critical files, it rearranged directories, moved files hither and yon, and just generally made a re-install of Win95 necessary. I wish to make it clear that these utilities work fine on MOST systems -- it's just that if your system happens to be setup in a vulnerable manner, these utilities CAN and MAY wreck it. Even the latest Beta of Netscape, and it IS a great improvement, does things that some systems don't like. >From experience, here is my advice BEFORE PERMANENTLY INSTALLING ANY PROGRAM OR UTILITY: Use the latest Beta of Winzip (no, it hasn't caused any problems itself that I know of). Install programs via Winzip. It allows you to "temporarily" install a program in a temp directory somewhere, try it out, see if it will work on your system, see if it causes any conflicts with other programs, etc. If the new program causes problems or you just don't like it, tell WinZip to get rid of it, files, directories, registry settings, and all. If there are no problems with the new program and you want to keep it, go ahead and let WinZip remove the temporary one, then install it permanently. This will get rid of some very, very bad headaches. The latest free Beta of Winzip can be found at: http://www.winzip.com If you are already a registered user of WinZip 6.X, the 7.X Beta will install over the 6.X and keep all your settings and keep your registration data. To recap, 99.9999% of the time when you are finding these anomalies in CFT, it is not caused by CFT, but by some conflict on your system. How many of you have taken the time to go to the web and download the latest updates for your video drivers? Sound card drivers? Microsoft's updates for many, many files and utilities for Win95? There were tons of bugs in the original Win95 and in OSR1 and OSR2. On the MS web site you can find new drivers for just about all your hardware and software. Get them!!!!! Just because you bought a new video card yes- terday doesn't mean that the driver files that come with it on a CD are up to date. The card may be a year or two old. You don't know how long it has been since it was manufactured. Same for sound cards, especially Creative Sound Blaster. I bought a new video card recently and couldn't use the drivers that came with it! Had to go to the MS web site and download the latest drivers for the card. Yes, they were right there waiting for me. I'll stop boring you. Good night. SgtGeorge Listowner

>> I've noticed that whenever the main window is scrolled down to a position >in >> which the Key Ind is out of view (for example, when the 11th child is >> highlighted), and I hit the "N" key to search for a name, then CFTW goes >> into a coma. The rest of Win95 continues to function properly, but CFTW >> becomes unusable. The menus are not accessible, nor are the icons, >> including the minimize and close buttons in the upper right-hand corner. >> >> Anyone else experienced similar freezeups? At 05:22 PM 10/1/98 -0400, you wrote: >yes: I've experienced the exact same thing (version 2.32x) >Thought it was just my computer. I would think that it is something fishy about these computers, since I just tried the exact same thing and it works fine on my computer - and I suspect that it will work fine or more than 95% of Window 95s. This is not a freeze-up that I believe I have any control over. Must have something to do with specific computer configurations or some wierd version of Win95. Ira ---------------------------------------------------------- Ira J. Lund Cumberland Family Software, Clarksville, Tennessee, USA Genealogy Software for Beginners and Professionals E-mail: ira.lund@cf-software.com http://www.cf-software.com

>Also, would it be possible for say "%G" (for Given Name) or some such to >allow a less formal sentence when needed. Well... there may be some cases where full name is wanted and others when given is wanted. The story report will work where the full name is given at the first and given name for subsequent events. >Also this happened when I tried to use a Free format date - note the >brackets. > >Michael CALDER attended High School (in early 1943) at Sydney Boys High >School. In Beta 2 I have added some options where you can include or exclude the paranthesis around the date. However, for the date you gave above I suggest that you enter the year in a Normal date and perhaps a comment such as "early in the year" in the free format date field then the sentence will read: Michael CALDER attended High School 1943 (early in the year) at Sydney Boys High School. The advantage to this is that with the year in teh true date field it can then be used for calculations such as auto date ordering and in teh case of births and deaths - age calculations and such. >Will you be announcing Beta 2 when it is posted? Definately! (before the end of October) Ira ---------------------------------------------------------- Ira J. Lund Cumberland Family Software, Clarksville, Tennessee, USA Genealogy Software for Beginners and Professionals E-mail: ira.lund@cf-software.com http://www.cf-software.com

I sent this message a day or two ago and intended to post it to the list: >Just sending this to verify that there is still a mailing list. I have not had >a single message in a week and wondered if something was wrong. Still a mailing list, but not much to talk about. In some ways that is good so that it doesn't take up my time away from working on Ver 3. I have been making some good progress on Ver 3 and intend to post beta 2 during the month of October - regardless of how far along I get. I have been making progress - cleaned up a lot of the bugs and been adding some Tools, etc. A big improvement from beta 1. But the big stuff will be the reports. I can see reports taking several months to program, especially since I have added some new ones this go round. Once Ver 3 beta 2 is posted I imagine we will begin to see some activity as you all test it and begin talking about it. Ira ---------------------------------------------------------- Ira J. Lund Cumberland Family Software, Clarksville, Tennessee, USA Genealogy Software for Beginners and Professionals E-mail: ira.lund@cf-software.com http://www.cf-software.com