----------------------- Mailing List Etiquette Here are some tips to remember when signing up for Mailing Lists: ~ If you are sent a confirmation letter (Welcome Letter), keep it in a folder somewhere, so that if you don't remember signing up for it, you'll have a copy somewhere that says you did. This can also be useful in remembering which email address you used, in case you have mail forwarded to that account, or have more than one email address. (The best way to save such Welcome Letters is to make a Mailbox in your email program for each surname List to which you subscribe; then, save the Welcome Letter in that Mailbox and don't ever delete it. Or make a separate Mailbox for "Saved Welcome Letters" and put all of them in that one Mailbox.) ~ UNSUBSCRIBE instructions are found in the body text of ALL Rootsweb Mailing Lists. Be sure to follow them, or you may not be unsubscribed, or it may take longer. If you don't follow the un- subscribe instructions, you will cause an error email to be sent to the List Manager/Administrator, which causes him/her to have to manually unsubscribe you, and will cause more work on his/ her part. Or, if you don't follow instructions, you may send your "unsubscribe" request back to the Mailing List itself, which not only doesn't do you any good (it won't be automatically acted upon), but it causes unnecessary posts to the List, which causes all users to have to download "junk posts". ~ If you feel it worth the time for you to subscribe to a Mailing List, you should feel it worth the time to follow instructions and not cause problems for other people, subscribers or List Managers. ~ REMEMBER, it's called ETIQUETTE! SgtGeorge George W. Durman Knoxville, TN Listowner

Please, could the list be used for discussing the technical aspects of CFT the program, While keeping all _personal_ comments by direct e-mail to the person you disagree with. thank you, Mike

Dear Ira and all others, Today I tried to generate some web-pages using the excelent CFTW version 3.07. I encountered a problem with the sources and photos. When an individual has one source and 5 photos, the progam somehow seems to generate irrelevant source instances on the web-page for every photo attached. Am I doing something wrong or is it some kind of minor bug?? Greetings from Drachten (Netherlands), Kees Mollema. mailto:[email protected] (Do not remove) http://members1.chello.nl/~c.mollema

Ira Thank you for that most cogent piece. As a List Dad myself (of two ML's) I consider that the Whining Minnies have gone too far. You have produced a Family History program you can be very proud of and I for one full appreciate all you do for us, the ones who spent a little to buy what I consider to be the equal if not better than most fully commercial FH programs. I hope that I never see the day when you decide that the moaning has gone too far. I feel sure that George as List Dad would not let it get to that point. Please do what you are best at, and continue to improve CFT and remove any small 'features' LOL. My sincere thanks to you. warmest regards Phil. Warn [a totally committed and contented user of Cumberland Family Tree]

There seems to be two problems on this list that I do not care for. 1. Some who want to squelch discussion of a topic and ask other people to stop discussing a certain topic: such as asking others to stop commenting on how they like CFT-Win. This is not the only "stop-discussion" type comment lately. I believe all of you should leave it up to me (Ira) and the List Manager (George) to determine when to ask someone to stop discussing a topic. I am afraid that before long, many of those on the shy side will not dare post to this list, because someone will tell them that it is "off-topic" or afraid to offend someone. (In fact, I know there are already those who will not post to this List.) Please let George and I control this. 2. There are a few, whom I do feel are "whining users". I think I was the originator of that word. There is a difference between 'civilized' discussion and 'whining'. When I explain my reasons and we all discuss with respect for one another's feelings, then that is "civilized". After I have made a decision and explained to all why I did what I did, and then someone starts complaining that I did not do what "they" wanted me to do, then I call that "whining". I wished we could stop both of these things. And, yes, George, I think I have gotten to a point where trying to fulfill every user wish is beginning to become unreasonable. And so I have to slow down, to maintain the program's integrity and my own sanity. If we drive away decent civilized discussion and the less-forward users, there will be no reason to even maintain this list, as it will become a list only for the bold and daring. Ira ------------------------------------------------ Mr. Ira J. Lund E-mail: [email protected] Web: http://www.cf-software.com Cumberland Family Software, 385 Idaho Springs Road, Clarksville TN 37043

Dear Ira I sincerely apologize if any of my postings to the list have contributed to your unhappiness. I wish to stress that NO disrespect or 'attitude' has ever been intended toward you. I have always, and remain to have, the utmost respect and admiration for yourself, your genealogical knowledge and commitment to CFTW, which in my opinion is the best by far. I am also extremely grateful for the privilege of having direct e-mail contact with you, both directly and via the list. Thank you for everything. I normally put a huge amount of time, thought and research into my suggestions, which are always intended to be constructive. Unfortunately, in the recent emigrate/immigrate saga, I fell into the same trap as many other listers - looking up the correct meaning in the dictionary, but then interpreting it incorrectly when applied to CFTW. After considerable further research on the subject, which I won't go into here, I stand corrected. Ira is quite right, and the English wording in 3.07 is now correct! Very Best Regards John Smith South Africa

At 08:08 AM 03/31/2001, Sigurd Eliassen wrote: *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >(snip) >Since I have attended the emigration/immigration discussion, I really >got "hot" when the List owner wrote: > > >NOT up to whining users to attempt to dictate such > >things. > >If that is the List owner's attitude to discussions and people who >don't agree with him, I will consider stopping my postings to this >list. Then I will post them directly to Ira - I hope he understands >why I am doing this better than the List owner and the "Hallelujah >people". > >May be it will be wise for George to start a new "Cftw Hallelujah >List" for people who can't stand serious discussions? > >Regards >Sigurd Eliassen >Norway **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********** Sigurd, if you had read every email I had sent to this List, you would certainly know that I DID NOT post the above because I didn't agree with the posters!!!!! I sent it, as is my privilege as the Listowner, to step in and try to calm down things when it appears people are going to start arguing and things are going to get out of hand. If you have read all my other postings on such matters, you KNOW I have always defended the right of users to discuss subjects when some people don't think they are "on topic". (How could I "disagree with the posters", when there were several sides to the arguments? Do you mean to say I disagreed with ALL of them?) I manage this List voluntarily, because I want to. Your post is nothing short of insulting and degrading. You owe me an apology. Ira used the word "whining" and I don't see you criticizing HIM here on the List! In the future, if you have a problem with the way I manage this List, send me a private email. I'm only replying here to the List because you posted your criticism of me here. Fair is fair. And, it would be nice if you would explain this: "But some people on this list don't like real discussion - however civilized. Every time there are some disagreements, they start what I call "Hallelujah postings" instead of discussing the actual subject." YOU are doing the same thing you accuse ME of. And, you don't manage this List, I do. Regards, SgtGeorge George W. Durman Knoxville, TN

----- Original Message ----- From: "Ira J Lund" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, 31 March 2001 00:13 Subject: Re: [CFTW] emigrate/immigrate > That is why I released it as "Shareware". You can try it first and then if > you don't like it you don't have to buy it. I try my best not to get > irritated at my users. But I guess this is one time I am. If you don't like > CFT-Win, then go use another program. I don't mind ideas for improvements. > I think I have shown that many times in the past. But when users start > whinning that I didn't do what they asked, what am I to think? > I am going to put my pennyworth in again. I am all with Ira. It is a wonderful program. George can we please request a moratorium on this subject. Regards Gale

Gracias Jon, This is the first explanation of this issue that made sense. If it had been stated this clearly at the beginning, then much of the confusion could have been avoided. I am one who did not clearly understand the editing options till now. merci, Mike At 11:41 29/03/01 -0500, you wrote: >Look, friends, if anyone wants to input all the information, there are >three choices: > >1. Edit Standard Events to suit yourself. >2. Use the Notes field to complete a l l the information. >3. Use B O T H Emigrate A N D Immigrate Events >Finito, la commedia! > >Jon

Hi Ira, I recommended that a friend use CFTW, so he downloaded 3.06 and played successfully. After 6 days of use the message said: 6 days used, 39 to go. However, the next day it said: 47 days used, -2 days to go. What should we do? WPBW John -- http://www.stmawgan.org.uk <http://www.stmawgan.org.uk/jslee> ICQ#24559772 [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>

Hello everybody, I am really wondering about what is going on at this list. It is called "discussion & support list", and I thought the list was started because discussions might be useful to Ira, the developer, and us, the users. But some people on this list don't like real discussion - however civilized. Every time there are some disagreements, they start what I call "Hallelujah postings" instead of discussing the actual subject. I am not able to understand that any of the "Hallelujah postings" are of any use in the development of Cftw. I am a very "heavy" user of Cftw. I do the Norwegian Nynorsk translation, I have posted probably more than hundred bug reports and suggestions to this list. I have a database with about 30.000 individuals - all registered in Cftw. I have sent a lot of postings to Norwegian news groups with information about Cftw. I am doing this because I am using the program every day, and because I want it to be as good as possible. Since I have attended the emigration/immigration discussion, I really got "hot" when the List owner wrote: >NOT up to whining users to attempt to dictate such >things. If that is the List owner's attitude to discussions and people who don't agree with him, I will consider stopping my postings to this list. Then I will post them directly to Ira - I hope he understands why I am doing this better than the List owner and the "Hallelujah people". May be it will be wise for George to start a new "Cftw Hallelujah List" for people who can't stand serious discussions? Regards Sigurd Eliassen Norway

Friends, I have been corresponding with Ira for over five years now and throughout this time I have found him e x t r e m e l y responsive to my requests for improvement of his product. Over the years, Ira has added untold numbers of bells and whistles and has responded to slews of bug reports. In a sense, I feel like a parent of CFTW, being protective of Ira while urging him on to greater glory. (He'll probably hate this remark!) At every opportunity I tout CFTW as fiercely as if it were my own, just today sending to Ira the bcc of a recommendation I gave to a French genealogy group. There are some enhancements I wished for which I did not get but they are in the minority. Most enhancements which I felt necessary to producing really high quality output--and especially a high quality indexed book--were eventually provided. Where else could this happen? Where else could I push the developer so hard to incorporate this or that enhancement that he got really annoyed with me... and yet he did do it? My own (not yet fulfilled) wish list for v.3 includes: 1. Inclusion of relationships by marriage in the Relationship Calculator, so that if I click on my uncle's wife CFTW will return "wife of uncle" and not "not related." 2. A Relationship Report which lists the relationship of all marked IRN's to a given key IRN, including relationships by marriage, as above. 3. The option for left-right justification of the text of all notes and reports. This was actually incorporated in an earlier version of v.3 and I understood Ira's reason for having to remove it, but just the same I want to see it again because it makes the printed output look more professional. 4. Similarly, the option for bold, italics, and underlining of selected words or phrases in all notes and stories, not just the entire note or story. Again, I understand these are real headaches for Ira. More than enough said. Therefore, I wish Ira a long and prosperous life, and look forward to version 4, which will grant everything to everybody in this best of all possible worlds :-) JM

At 12:56 AM 03/31/2001, Gale Fursdon wrote: *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ira J Lund" <[email protected]> > > That is why I released it as "Shareware". You can try it first and then > if > > you don't like it you don't have to buy it. I try my best not to get > > irritated at my users. But I guess this is one time I am. If you don't >like > > CFT-Win, then go use another program. I don't mind ideas for > improvements. > > I think I have shown that many times in the past. But when users start > > whinning that I didn't do what they asked, what am I to think? > > >I am going to put my pennyworth in again. I am all with Ira. It is a >wonderful program. >George can we please request a moratorium on this subject. >Regards >Gale **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********** Gale, here it is. Folks, we've beaten this dead horse enough. Most of you users have no idea how lucky you are for having the writer of a software program available on a Mailing List to listen to your every wish and thought. I have found no other program on the market where the writer is in such close contact with his/her users. You are indeed fortunate! Another point -- not criticizing Ira, but he, over the time since this List was started, has opened himself to more and more user "wishes", because he has tried to accommodate everyone. I think he has now seen that he can't please everyone, and shouldn't even try. CFTW is his creation, his "baby", so to speak, and it's up to HIM what features it has, NOT up to whining users to attempt to dictate such things. That's my 2¢ worth. So, let's drop the subject of "emigrate" vs. "immigrate" and let's get on to things that are really important. SgtGeorge George W. Durman Knoxville, TN CFT-WIN List Administrator

At 04:31 PM 03/30/2001, Raymond L. Fournier wrote: *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >(snip) >I am amazed at the number of complaints that come in that are not even >related to the program but to the equipment. Trying to run Windows or any >Windows based programs with 32 meg or less is for the experts to tweak and >not for the faint of heart. Anytime sound files and graphics and text are >being combined, you need horsepower. Every machine is different and every >operator is different. The more experience the less complaints because the >experienced person knows that many factors affect the operation of a >machine. The hard drive and it's age, The amount of memory and the type of >memory. The Processor is only one small part of the whole. Yes it serves a >very important job but so does everything else. I agree 100%. In addition to managing this List, I also am responsible for 20 other Lists. I constantly see users having problems and complaining about various software, when they have only 32 Mb or 64 Mb of RAM. Heck, it takes over 64 Mb just to start Windows the way I have it con- figured! That's why I bought more RAM and brought my system up to 384 Mb. There are times, when working with a very large graphics file in Paint Shop Pro, that just that one file uses up 64 Mb! >(snip) **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT**********

At 08:41 AM 03/30/2001, mongreltiger wrote: *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >mmm... I run CFTW v3.07 with a 9,900 name database on a 400 mHZ Celeron >and >it runs like a Swiss watch. Fast as greased lightening. The problem must >be you, not the program, not the machine. > > > >Do I really have to spend some 2000$ for a new super high > > >performance PC with a 1.5 GHz Pentium4 only to be able to run > > >CFTW3 without being stressed ? **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********** I responded to Erik's original complaint yesterday, but didn't include enough information. As I said then, my computer has a 600MHz Pentium III chip; I have one database that contains almost 14,000 names, and many, many sources, documents, etc. When I press "N" to bring up the list of names in that large database, it takes a matter of 3-4 seconds. Everything else is available instantly, and I mean INSTANTLY! No wait! The only thing I can say about the complaint is the same as "mongreltiger" says -- a 400 MHz computer is more than fast enough to handle CFTW. I suspect that the problem is either not enough memory (the probable cause), or other things being loaded in Windows at startup that just bogs down the system. SgtGeorge George W. Durman Knoxville, TN

Here! Here! I couldn't say it better. Dawn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond L. Fournier" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 11:31 PM Subject: Re: [CFTW] APPLAUSE WHERE IT IS DUE > I second that statement. I hope that you don't take that personally. It is > by far the best product and support. It really is too bad that a few bad > remarks can cause so much hurt. You have a lot of friends that far outnumber > those that are not. We do appreciate everything that you do for this superb > program. I for one am very proud of the program and I read all the mail and > I can truly see why you take it to heart. > > I am amazed at the number of complaints that come in that are not even > related to the program but to the equipment. Trying to run Windows or any > Windows based programs with 32 meg or less is for the experts to tweak and > not for the faint of heart. Anytime sound files and graphics and text are > being combined, you need horsepower. Every machine is different and every > operator is different. The more experience the less complaints because the > experienced person knows that many factors affect the operation of a > machine. The hard drive and it's age, The amount of memory and the type of > memory. The Processor is only one small part of the whole. Yes it serves a > very important job but so does everything else. > > If people would only read these e-mails and see that everything is being > done by the creator of this program that is within reason and within cost > guide lines that we can handle. Also you can see by the constructive > criticism how many and what type of complaints are coming in. If every > person with a P133 were affected then you could safely say that something is > definitely wrong with this program or with the P133. One complaint came in > about a virus a short while ago and 50 reply's shortly thereafter disproved > that to be true. I knew this to be true because I had just downloaded from > the site. I also run an anti virus program but even if it were shut off it > is still my responsibility. Yes Ira would probably like to know if he were > the cause but by reading all the e-mails over those weeks one could > ultimately see that he was not and everybody on the list got a lesson on > virus like behavior. > > In conclusion and I apologize for being so long winded but I like this > program and I like the Author of the program and I do not want to loose > either. Constructive criticism is good for all of us. Destructive criticism > will affect us all but benefit no one. So please think before you do. Thank > you Ira. This comes from a lot of us that really appreciate everything that > you do and our list owner and manager. I for one have learned a lot just > since being a member........ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ernie Drabble" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 2:17 PM > Subject: [CFTW] APPLAUSE WHERE IT IS DUE > > > > Ira > > > > I have read all the complaints concerning Immigrate/Emigrate, etc., and > don't really understand what all the fuss is about. You have very > thoughtfully included a "Standard Events" editor in your Ver. 3 and as you > have already explained, it doesn't take a genius to amend the event to > whatever one's personal preference may be. I have used it to tweak a couple > myself - my preference, no problem. > > > > I can understand you getting upset at what appear to be some personal > attacks and you must wonder at times, "Is it worth it"? > > > > Yes, it most certainly is. I for one, am a more than satisfied registered > user of your excellent program - even on my snail paced ancient P133 with > 36m ram. Keep up the good work. You must realise that from all the very > many registered users there are throughout the world, complaints such as > these only emanate from a very very small minority. > > > > Keep up the good work. > > > > Ernie Drabble > > > > > > ==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== > > You can contact the List Manager at: > > [email protected] > > > > ============================== > > Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp > > > > > > > ==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== > You can contact the List Manager at: > [email protected] > > ============================== > Create a FREE family website at MyFamily.com! > http://www.myfamily.com/banner.asp?ID=RWLIST2 > >

Am I right in thinking that if I move to 3.07, when I open my database all the emigrate/immigrate events will have the grammar switched around? will "Jørgen VOSS emigrated from Schleswig" become "…emigrated to Schleswig"? I doubt i can face that. David Voss New Zealand John Smith wrote: > Hi Ira > > Firstly, thank you very much for version 3.07. <snip> > Ira, I really feel you have made a mistake (or were certainly premature) by changing this in 3.07.<snip> David B Voss 30 Dreadon Road Manurewa Manukau City 1702 New Zealand Phones: home +64 9 267 3547 mobile (worldwide) +64 21 612 965

CFTW 3 goes quite well on my P120 with 48 M ram. Pity about the emigrate/immigrate mixup though; I thought they were fine as they were David Voss New Zealand > I also have no trouble with any of the CFT versions and I have P1, 133mhz with > 80 m of ram. I will say Adobe Photoshop is a bit slow,, but what ta heck ya > can't have it all.. > > > Tim Churchill wrote: > > > Erik, > > I feel there is something odd about a PC with a K6 400 MHz that can't handle > > CFT 3 adequately. I have a K6 500 PC that handles it at a cracking pace - > > pictures on version 3.07 and all. It also handles extremely large graphics > > and audio files more than adequately. > > > > Tim Churchill > > Lancaster > > > > http://www.tchurchill.co.uk > > > > ==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== > > To unsubscribe from CFT-WIN, send an e-mail message to: > > [email protected] (for individual messages) > > [email protected] (for Digest mode) > > Subject: unsubscribe > > In the body include only one word: unsubscribe > > (Turn OFF your signature file when sending this command) > > > > ============================== > > Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp > > > ==== CFT-WIN Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from CFT-WIN, send an e-mail message to: > [email protected] (for individual messages) > [email protected] (for Digest mode) > Subject: unsubscribe > In the body include only one word: unsubscribe > (Turn OFF your signature file when sending this command) > > ============================== > Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp > > David B Voss 30 Dreadon Road Manurewa Manukau City 1702 New Zealand Phones: home +64 9 267 3547 mobile (worldwide) +64 21 612 965

Ira I have read all the complaints concerning Immigrate/Emigrate, etc., and don't really understand what all the fuss is about. You have very thoughtfully included a "Standard Events" editor in your Ver. 3 and as you have already explained, it doesn't take a genius to amend the event to whatever one's personal preference may be. I have used it to tweak a couple myself - my preference, no problem. I can understand you getting upset at what appear to be some personal attacks and you must wonder at times, "Is it worth it"? Yes, it most certainly is. I for one, am a more than satisfied registered user of your excellent program - even on my snail paced ancient P133 with 36m ram. Keep up the good work. You must realise that from all the very many registered users there are throughout the world, complaints such as these only emanate from a very very small minority. Keep up the good work. Ernie Drabble

Fri, 30 Mar 2001 10:44:59 +0200, John Smith : >Firstly, thank you very much for version 3.07. Some important bugs have been fixed. The visual appearance of "long" dates in the HTML output is PERFECT. Sigurd, you also raised this issue, what do you think? I have just made a quick test - and I find the HTML output fine now. Sigurd Eliassen Norway