The genealogy lists I'm on have migrated to Groups.io.  It was painlessly and seamlessly done. https://groups.io/ If you transfer over, let me know. Thanks, Bev Anderson      On Sunday, March 1, 2020, 12:56:02 AM CST, Lauren Boyd McLachlan <confido@gmail.com> wrote: Dear List Members: By now, you have heard that Ancestry is closing the Rootsweb mailing lists to live communication.As of March 2, 2020 you will not be able to send or receive messages via Rootsweb lists. Whatever is currently housed under the Domain Name Rootsweb, will remain until Ancestry makes any decisions it feels necessary in future. The List Archives for all the LIsts at Rootsweb are  to remain viewable. and searchable.  I do not find their search engine to  be robust.  You may want to browse each year and month if you do not find searching the list to turn up what you are seeking.  Also, trying a google search can be effective. You have about a day to post your last ditch messages.  BE SURE to put your contact information in the body of the post so that people can contact you in future.  Be aware that this informaiton will be permanently viewable to anyone searching the archives in future, so be prudent and do not compromise your own security. When the lists close, tha Admin tools also go away.  I won't be able to assist with Rootsweb list items. The Rootsweb/Ancestry Message Boards will remain active.  You CAN post there.  You do NOT need an Ancestry paid account.  You do, however, need to have a login ID and password.  If you do not have an Ancestry account, you will not be able to have direct contact with authors of posts in private. Consider putting your contact info in the body of your messages. Where do we go from here?  Firtsty, Thank you for adding to the body of the your families history since 1996 on Rootsweb.com I am the Admin for about 100 surname, location, clan and DNA lists.  I am downloading all the subscriber addresses. I have not yet created a place to move the lists.  However, that is the end aim.  Bear with me as I have been a List Admin at Rootsweb since 1996 and have 100 lists to deal with in attempt to preserve a friendly email experience with all who are accustomed to that environment. IF you are on Facebook, there are groups you can join, if you have not already, to discuss and share your Interests.  You can easily search and use the "group" classification to find all which may apply. Karen and Brian who began Rootsweb, and also created LInkpendium, were heavily considering creating "Rootsweb the Next Generation."  I held off acting to move the lists elsewhere as I was hoping they would go forth with their perceived craziness and I could move all to RWTNG.  Alas, life is too complicated to create such a venue at this time.  That said, they will be adding links as they are sent to them, to show where the Rootsweb lists have gone.  I have not asked Cyndi Ingle of Cyndi's list, butt I suspect she may do the same.  Lots of work.  There are currently over 31, 000 lists housed at Rootsweb.  If the admin is active, they will be considering options. So...Let me assure you that I will not use your email addresses for any purpose but to alert you where  I have found to continue this conversation. If your list is associated to an organization, I will be supplying your information to them for followup as they may have established a presence elsewhere of which they can alert you. Happy Trails, Lauren Boyd McLachlan Rootsweb Volunteer since 1996 Ancestry Volunteer since 2000 100 Lists 235 Message Boards _______________________________________________

Dear List Members: By now, you have heard that Ancestry is closing the Rootsweb mailing lists to live communication.As of March 2, 2020 you will not be able to send or receive messages via Rootsweb lists. Whatever is currently housed under the Domain Name Rootsweb, will remain until Ancestry makes any decisions it feels necessary in future. The List Archives for all the LIsts at Rootsweb are to remain viewable. and searchable. I do not find their search engine to be robust. You may want to browse each year and month if you do not find searching the list to turn up what you are seeking. Also, trying a google search can be effective. You have about a day to post your last ditch messages. BE SURE to put your contact information in the body of the post so that people can contact you in future. Be aware that this informaiton will be permanently viewable to anyone searching the archives in future, so be prudent and do not compromise your own security. When the lists close, tha Admin tools also go away. I won't be able to assist with Rootsweb list items. The Rootsweb/Ancestry Message Boards will remain active. You CAN post there. You do NOT need an Ancestry paid account. You do, however, need to have a login ID and password. If you do not have an Ancestry account, you will not be able to have direct contact with authors of posts in private. Consider putting your contact info in the body of your messages. Where do we go from here? Firtsty, Thank you for adding to the body of the your families history since 1996 on Rootsweb.com I am the Admin for about 100 surname, location, clan and DNA lists. I am downloading all the subscriber addresses. I have not yet created a place to move the lists. However, that is the end aim. Bear with me as I have been a List Admin at Rootsweb since 1996 and have 100 lists to deal with in attempt to preserve a friendly email experience with all who are accustomed to that environment. IF you are on Facebook, there are groups you can join, if you have not already, to discuss and share your Interests. You can easily search and use the "group" classification to find all which may apply. Karen and Brian who began Rootsweb, and also created LInkpendium, were heavily considering creating "Rootsweb the Next Generation." I held off acting to move the lists elsewhere as I was hoping they would go forth with their perceived craziness and I could move all to RWTNG. Alas, life is too complicated to create such a venue at this time. That said, they will be adding links as they are sent to them, to show where the Rootsweb lists have gone. I have not asked Cyndi Ingle of Cyndi's list, butt I suspect she may do the same. Lots of work. There are currently over 31, 000 lists housed at Rootsweb. If the admin is active, they will be considering options. So...Let me assure you that I will not use your email addresses for any purpose but to alert you where I have found to continue this conversation. If your list is associated to an organization, I will be supplying your information to them for followup as they may have established a presence elsewhere of which they can alert you. Happy Trails, Lauren Boyd McLachlan Rootsweb Volunteer since 1996 Ancestry Volunteer since 2000 100 Lists 235 Message Boards

Well Bev, I never heard back from the listowner. Everyone here is welcome to join https://scotland-genealogy.groups.io/g/Scots and/or https://scottish-clan-genealogy.groups.io/g/Clans Valorie On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 6:44 PM Bev Anderson via CELTS <celts@rootsweb.com> wrote: > I hadn't heard anything from this list in so long I forgot it even existed. > > Will the Celts List be transferring to Groups.io like so many of the > genealogy lists I'm on? > > Thanks! > Bev Anderson > > > On Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 5:44:38 PM CST, Valorie Zimmerman < > valoriez@zimres.net> wrote: > > Hi all, replying to an old post because there hasn't been much recent > traffic here. > > On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 6:09 PM Bev Anderson via CELTS <celts@rootsweb.com > > > wrote: > > I wanted to write for a couple of reasons. This list will be archived on 2 > March 2020. While I know of no groups focused on the subject of the Celts, > there is a new group at https://scotland-genealogy.groups.io/g/Scots some > of you might find interesting, and another at > https://scottish-clan-genealogy.groups.io/g/Clans. > > And there is the > https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/scottishdna/about/background for > those > who have Y-DNA, and the Irish DNA project > https://familyhistory.ie/wp/irelands-dna/ and for Y only, > https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/ireland-heritage/about/background. > > This is probably old news, but "A DNA study of Britons has shown that > genetically there is not a unique Celtic group of people in the UK": > https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-31905764 > > Also, the above link for the archives of this list is out-of-date; the > archive is at > https://lists.rootsweb.com/hyperkitty/list/celts.rootsweb.com > <https://lists.rootsweb.com/hyperkitty/list/celts.rootsweb.com> > > All the best, > > Valorie >

I hadn't heard anything from this list in so long I forgot it even existed. Will the Celts List be transferring to Groups.io like so many of the genealogy lists I'm on? Thanks! Bev Anderson On Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 5:44:38 PM CST, Valorie Zimmerman <valoriez@zimres.net> wrote: Hi all, replying to an old post because there hasn't been much recent traffic here. On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 6:09 PM Bev Anderson via CELTS <celts@rootsweb.com> wrote: I wanted to write for a couple of reasons. This list will be archived on 2 March 2020. While I know of no groups focused on the subject of the Celts, there is a new group at https://scotland-genealogy.groups.io/g/Scots some of you might find interesting, and another at https://scottish-clan-genealogy.groups.io/g/Clans. And there is the https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/scottishdna/about/background for those who have Y-DNA, and the Irish DNA project https://familyhistory.ie/wp/irelands-dna/ and for Y only, https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/ireland-heritage/about/background. This is probably old news, but "A DNA study of Britons has shown that genetically there is not a unique Celtic group of people in the UK": https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-31905764 Also, the above link for the archives of this list is out-of-date; the archive is at https://lists.rootsweb.com/hyperkitty/list/celts.rootsweb.com <https://lists.rootsweb.com/hyperkitty/list/celts.rootsweb.com> All the best, Valorie _______________________________________________

Hi all, replying to an old post because there hasn't been much recent traffic here. On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 6:09 PM Bev Anderson via CELTS <celts@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Yes, this list is for historical information about the ancient Celts. > There are other lists for ancestral DNA, but at the time I was a member > over a decade ago the conversation was male-dominated and centered around > yDNA (which, as a female, I do not have), so I unsubscribed. > > Don't forget the possibility of Viking DNA, for yourself. The Vikings > founded a large number of coastal communities in Ireland going back to at > least the year 807 ACE. They founded communities in Scotland (including > the northern Scottish islands where the residents are still of Viking > stock), and Wales from 795 ACE forward. > Modern DNA tests in Iceland show that when the Vikings founded Iceland the > yDNA was mostly Norse Viking and mtDNA was mostly Irish Celt. In the Faroe > Islands the ancient yDNA was mostly Norse Viking and the mtDNA was > primarily Scottish Celt. The ancient Rus were Vikings (largely from what > is modern-day Sweden and maybe Denmark) who traversed the river waterways > of Europe down to Constantinople, and the Varangian Guard was made up of > Vikings. We're all a mix - for a longer time than is obvious. Last year's book,* Who We Are and How We Got Here: Ancient DNA and the New Science of the Human Past *by David Reich is an in-depth look at the latest research. Really fascinating. The longest Viking ship in the world discovered by archaeologists in > Roskilde, Denmark was made of oak felled in Ireland in the summer of 1042, > according to dendrochronological testing. The modern ship was recreated > using original methods, named The Sea Stallion, and sailed from Roskilde to > Dublin. > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8jhnrNHk3g > > I did my college minor studies in Art History, and usually have a problem > differentiating between Viking and Celtic art with its elaborate scroll > work and spirals. I was astonished that one of the statues on Nidaros > Cathedral in Trondheim is a Sheela-Na-Gig, something I used to think was > only Celtic. A little more than halfway down the page on this link is a > photo of the Sheela-Na-Gig on the Nidaros Cathedral, among others. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheela_na_gig > > I recently had my DNA tested through 23andMe (holiday sale). I was > disappointed to realize in my first research before the test that only the > first three or four generations are more accurate, however the near results > confirmed the last four hundred years of my documented genealogy - on paper > I have documented ancestors from seven different countries going back to > the Mayflower in the US, and two lines go further back than that. On paper > I'm English, Irish, Dutch, Alsatian (French on paper, but the names are > Germanic, and the area is on the border with modern Germany; many > Pennsylvania Deutsch were from the German side of the border), Norwegian, > Swedish, and Danish. It's too bad documents don't go back far enough, but > those seven encompass ancient origins of both European and British Celts in > one form or another if one considers population migrations (and wars). My > mtDNA Haplogroup (J1c1) means Richard III and I descend from the same > female some 13,000 years ago (and I think my brother's yDNA haplogroup > should be the same as one male's first cousin's son, since our common male > ancestor only two generations ago is the same person). > More documents and other evidence come to light all the time. It's very exciting. I've not made my McBee connection to Ireland or Scotland, but my Cowans are documented to Selkirkshire, although that isn't ancient - 1832 emigration. I chose 23andMe because I have access to my data whenever I want, and they > update it. With Ancestry or MyHeritage one has to maintain at least a > basic membership to have access to one's own data. If that was true when this post was made, it is not now. Membership is free on both Ancestry.com and MyHeritage.com and you always have access to your test data and matches. Same with FamilyTreeDNA and LivingDNA. And Gedmatch continues (and will continue) to be free, no matter what company you tested with. > How DNA combined and recombined before the last three or four generations > and whether or not it comes down to one's own DNA is a hit and miss > proposition. That is why even full siblings can have DNA findings that are > not exactly the same. I added the medical info (also when it went on > sale), found out I do not have variants for a very long list of diseases. > I do *not* carry the gene for late-onset Alzheimer's (whew!), nor for two > breast cancers tested; I do have a chance of getting a couple of other > conditions, but not likely for either one. The surprise was a marker test > that showed I was born with misophonia; I read the description and my mind > went "There's a gene for that?!?" I've always known my hearing was acute > and that I can't tolerate certain sounds, but I had no idea there was a > name for it or that there's a genetic marker for misophonia which prompts > the "fight or flight" response just from hearing certain sounds, some of > which are innocuous and not even heard by others. That was interesting, > and it explains a lot! > Fascinating! In any case, my best advice to understand one's own DNA is to read every > history book available about the ancient Celts, their art and artifacts, > what ancient writers had to say about them (European and British Celts)..., > who, with time..., became separate peoples with different languages who > formed an identity of their own post-tribal living when they became > communities and then countries. One can see ancient roots and similarities > in some art styles, and songs and dances reflect ancient traditions older > than modern interpretations of songs and dances, but (IMHO) one needs more > than superficial information about Celtic roots to understand migration > patterns, what they were like as a people, all long before written records > of our ancestors from the last four or five hundred years, and that means > delving into ancient history, info about archaeological digs, and the > like. There are a few documentaries on YouTube that are rather good > (usually produced by the BBC). > Good Luck, and Happy Researching!Bev Anderson > > > From: Pat Connors <nymets11@pacbell.net> > To: celts@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 12:47 PM > Subject: [CELTS] DNA testing > > > The Celts list is not a genealogical list, but rather one to share > > knowledge re the Celts and their rich history and traditions. There > > would be a rare bit of genealogy available for these ancient people. > Having ancestors from Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Cornwall, you can > imagine I have lots of Celtic dna. I wonder if that would be an > acceptable conversation? > > -- > Pat Connors > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com > > The Celts list is not a genealogical list, but rather one to share > knowledge re the Celts and their rich history and traditions. There would > be a rare bit of genealogy available for these ancient people. The > browsable archives are to be found here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CE > <http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CELTS>LTS > I wanted to write for a couple of reasons. This list will be archived on 2 March 2020. While I know of no groups focused on the subject of the Celts, there is a new group at https://scotland-genealogy.groups.io/g/Scots some of you might find interesting, and another at https://scottish-clan-genealogy.groups.io/g/Clans. And there is the https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/scottishdna/about/background for those who have Y-DNA, and the Irish DNA project https://familyhistory.ie/wp/irelands-dna/ and for Y only, https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/ireland-heritage/about/background. This is probably old news, but "A DNA study of Britons has shown that genetically there is not a unique Celtic group of people in the UK": https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-31905764 Also, the above link for the archives of this list is out-of-date; the archive is at https://lists.rootsweb.com/hyperkitty/list/celts.rootsweb.com <https://lists.rootsweb.com/hyperkitty/list/celts.rootsweb.com> All the best, Valorie

​ This is not a DNA discussion list. ​ ​DNA testing is off topic for his list.​ Thank you for honoring the scope and topic of the list. Kind Regards, Lauren Celts LIst Admin > ​ > >

Yes, this list is for historical information about the ancient Celts.  There are other lists for ancestral DNA, but at the time I was a member over a decade ago the conversation was male-dominated and centered around yDNA (which, as a female, I do not have), so I unsubscribed. Don't forget the possibility of Viking DNA, for yourself.  The Vikings founded a large number of coastal communities in Ireland going back to at least the year 807 ACE.  They founded communities in Scotland (including the northern Scottish islands where the residents are still of Viking stock), and Wales from 795 ACE forward. Modern DNA tests in Iceland show that when the Vikings founded Iceland the yDNA was mostly Norse Viking and mtDNA was mostly Irish Celt.  In the Faroe Islands the ancient yDNA was mostly Norse Viking and the mtDNA was primarily Scottish Celt.  The ancient Rus were Vikings (largely from what is modern-day Sweden and maybe Denmark) who traversed the river waterways of Europe down to Constantinople, and the Varangian Guard was made up of Vikings. The longest Viking ship in the world discovered by archaeologists in Roskilde, Denmark was made of oak felled in Ireland in the summer of 1042, according to dendrochronological testing.  The modern ship was recreated using original methods, named The Sea Stallion, and sailed from Roskilde to Dublin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8jhnrNHk3g I did my college minor studies in Art History, and usually have a problem differentiating between Viking and Celtic art with its elaborate scroll work and spirals.  I was astonished that one of the statues on Nidaros Cathedral in Trondheim is a Sheela-Na-Gig, something I used to think was only Celtic.  A little more than halfway down the page on this link is a photo of the Sheela-Na-Gig on the Nidaros Cathedral, among others. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheela_na_gig I recently had my DNA tested through 23andMe (holiday sale).  I was disappointed to realize in my first research before the test that only the first three or four generations are more accurate, however the near results confirmed the last four hundred years of my documented genealogy - on paper I have documented ancestors from seven different countries going back to the Mayflower in the US, and two lines go further back than that.  On paper I'm English, Irish, Dutch, Alsatian (French on paper, but the names are Germanic, and the area is on the border with modern Germany; many Pennsylvania Deutsch were from the German side of the border), Norwegian, Swedish, and Danish.  It's too bad documents don't go back far enough, but those seven encompass ancient origins of both European and British Celts in one form or another if one considers population migrations (and wars).  My mtDNA Haplogroup (J1c1) means Richard III and I descend from the same female some 13,000 years ago (and I think my brother's yDNA haplogroup should be the same as one male's first cousin's son, since our common male ancestor only two generations ago is the same person). I chose 23andMe because I have access to my data whenever I want, and they update it.  With Ancestry or MyHeritage one has to maintain at least a basic membership to have access to one's own data.  How DNA combined and recombined before the last three or four generations and whether or not it comes down to one's own DNA is a hit and miss proposition.  That is why even full siblings can have DNA findings that are not exactly the same.  I added the medical info (also when it went on sale), found out I do not have variants for a very long list of diseases.  I do *not* carry the gene for late-onset Alzheimer's (whew!), nor for two breast cancers tested; I do have a chance of getting a couple of other conditions, but not likely for either one.  The surprise was a marker test that showed I was born with misophonia; I read the description and my mind went "There's a gene for that?!?"  I've always known my hearing was acute and that I can't tolerate certain sounds, but I had no idea there was a name for it or that there's a genetic marker for misophonia which prompts the "fight or flight" response just from hearing certain sounds, some of which are innocuous and not even heard by others.  That was interesting, and it explains a lot! In any case, my best advice to understand one's own DNA is to read every history book available about the ancient Celts, their art and artifacts, what ancient writers had to say about them (European and British Celts)..., who, with time..., became separate peoples with different languages who formed an identity of their own post-tribal living when they became communities and then countries.  One can see ancient roots and similarities in some art styles, and songs and dances reflect ancient traditions older than modern interpretations of songs and dances, but (IMHO) one needs more than superficial information about Celtic roots to understand migration patterns, what they were like as a people, all long before written records of our ancestors from the last four or five hundred years, and that means delving into ancient history, info about archaeological digs, and the like.  There are a few documentaries on YouTube that are rather good (usually produced by the BBC). Good Luck, and Happy Researching!Bev Anderson From: Pat Connors <nymets11@pacbell.net> To: celts@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2018 12:47 PM Subject: [CELTS] DNA testing > The Celts list is not a genealogical list, but rather one to share > knowledge re the Celts and their rich history and traditions. There > would be a rare bit of genealogy available for these ancient people. Having ancestors from Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Cornwall, you can imagine I have lots of Celtic dna.  I wonder if that would be an acceptable conversation? -- Pat Connors http://www.connorsgenealogy.com

> The Celts list is not a genealogical list, but rather one to share > knowledge re the Celts and their rich history and traditions. There > would be a rare bit of genealogy available for these ancient people. Having ancestors from Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Cornwall, you can imagine I have lots of Celtic dna.  I wonder if that would be an acceptable conversation? -- Pat Connors http://www.connorsgenealogy.com

On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 12:06 PM, BigDocD -Al- Doherty <bigdocdnews@rogers.com> wrote: > It seems that a couple of years ago I subscribed to the CELTS Digest. > > I seem to have received Volume 4 Issue 1, but then I never heard from again. > > Please advise, > > David Alexander ("Al") DOHERTY {ie. "Big Doc DOHERTY"} > > Pickering, Ontario, Canada > > The Celts list is not a genealogical list, but rather one to share knowledge re the Celts and their rich history and traditions. There would be a rare bit of genealogy available for these ancient people. The browsable archives are to be found here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CELTS Hi David, looking at the archives, it appears that the listowner hasn't posted since the lists came back from the dead, nor did anyone else. If you have something to share about " the Celts and their rich history and traditions" according to the list footer that is on-topic! What makes good lists work is a lot of people posting information, asking questions and providing answers. I hope that each of us can contribute in this way. All the best, Valorie -- roughly half Celt via both parents and their ancestors

It seems that a couple of years ago I subscribed to the CELTS Digest. I seem to have received Volume 4 Issue 1, but then I never heard from again. Please advise, David Alexander ("Al") DOHERTY {ie. "Big Doc DOHERTY"} Pickering, Ontario, Canada

Greetings - please note that I will be without computer access - my computer will be in the shop for 3 weeks for repairs Thank you June/Meitheamh

Hi, I have been going through my archives to see what else I can share and have added a few more deaths and marriages that were filed out of place to http://www.howdiie.com But have also found where I had transcribed from a Film of Sassines in Clackmannan some of the wording and abbreviations I do not quite understand and I have below three and wonder if someone could advise exactly what is meant. Any help greatly appreciated. Regards Jenny SASSINES CLACKMANNAN 1781 -1868 1789 William NUCCLE sen., Mercant, Alloa, Scised, June 16 1789 in a Tenement in Kirk Street, Alloa – on disp. By Margaret BACHOP & William MCDOUGAL, shoemaker, Alloa, her husband, Dec 11, 1788 Thomas HUTTON, tenant, Balgownie, Scised, Aug 3 1789 – in tenements in Alloa – in security of ₤50 – on Bond & Disp by William Hutton in Alloa, Jul 27, 1789 David WYLLIE, Shoemaker, clackmannan, as heir to David WYLIE, weaver there, his father, Scised, aug 24 1789 - in a Tenement in Clackmannan - on Disp. by Alison DONALDSON, daughter of Alexander DONALDSON, Weaver, Stenhouse Mills, near Edinburgh to the said David WYLLIE sen., Jun 21 1764: & Ret. Gen. Serv. Jul 23 1780: & Christian INGLIS, his spouse, Scised, cod. die. in lifer _________________________________________________________________ Need a place to rent, buy or share? Let us find your next place for you! http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/

I am told he was exiled to Cornwall.Why.? I also have a mix of Richards and Trengove and Spargo and Couch.The place Perranarworthal.is the well the key.? Is there a birth right.?

I am interested in the origins of the above name. I would be greatful for any information. Frances Kinraid -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.7/618 - Release Date: 6/01/07 19:47

Hello Frances: Surnames were not in use at the time of the Celts. You will be better served to post this query to the surnames - orgin. http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Miscellaneous/SURNAME-ORIGINS.html The Celts list is not a genealogical list, but rather one to share knowledge re the Celts and their rich history and traditions. There would be a rare bit of genealogy available for these ancient people. The browsable archives are to be found here: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/CELTS Yours Aye, Lauren Celts List Admin

Absolutely FASCINATING....!!! Thanks for posting the article!!! :-) Bev confido@ix.netcom.com wrote: Sent to me by a friend. Thought it worth sharing: article from The Independent, 28 August 2006: ************************************************************** A meeting of civilisations: The mystery of China's celtic mummies --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

Sent to me by a friend. Thought it worth sharing: article from The Independent, 28 August 2006: <http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article1222214.ece> ************************************************************** A meeting of civilisations: The mystery of China's celtic mummies The discovery of European corpses thousands of miles away suggests a hitherto unknown connection between East and West in the Bronze Age. Clifford Coonan reports from Urumqi Published: 28 August 2006 Solid as a warrior of the Caledonii tribe, the man's hair is reddish brown flecked with grey, framing high cheekbones, a long nose, full lips and a ginger beard. When he lived three thousand years ago, he stood six feet tall, and was buried wearing a red twill tunic and tartan leggings. He looks like a Bronze Age European. In fact, he's every inch a Celt. Even his DNA says so. But this is no early Celt from central Scotland. This is the mummified corpse of Cherchen Man, unearthed from the scorched sands of the Taklamakan Desert in the far-flung region of Xinjiang in western China, and now housed in a new museum in the provincial capital of Urumqi. In the language spoken by the local Uighur people in Xinjiang, "Taklamakan" means: "You come in and never come out." The extraordinary thing is that Cherchen Man was found - with the mummies of three women and a baby - in a burial site thousands of miles to the east of where the Celts established their biggest settlements in France and the British Isles. DNA testing confirms that he and hundreds of other mummies found in Xinjiang's Tarim Basin are of European origin. We don't know how he got there, what brought him there, or how long he and his kind lived there for. But, as the desert's name suggests, it is certain that he never came out. His discovery provides an unexpected connection between east and west and some valuable clues to early European history. One of the women who shared a tomb with Cherchen Man has light brown hair which looks as if it was brushed and braided for her funeral only yesterday. Her face is painted with curling designs, and her striking red burial gown has lost none of its lustre during the three millenniums that this tall, fine-featured woman has been lying beneath the sand of the Northern Silk Road. The bodies are far better preserved than the Egyptian mummies, and it is sad to see the infants on display; to see how the baby was wrapped in a beautiful brown cloth tied with red and blue cord, then a blue stone placed on each eye. Beside it was a baby's milk bottle with a teat, made from a sheep's udder. Based on the mummy, the museum has reconstructed what Cherchen Man would have looked like and how he lived. The similarities to the traditional Bronze Age Celts are uncanny, and analysis has shown that the weave of the cloth is the same as that of those found on the bodies of salt miners in Austria from 1300BC. The burial sites of Cherchen Man and his fellow people were marked with stone structures that look like dolmens from Britain, ringed by round-faced, Celtic figures, or standing stones. Among their icons were figures reminiscent of the sheela-na-gigs, wild females who flaunted their bodies and can still be found in mediaeval churches in Britain. A female mummy wears a long, conical hat which has to be a witch or a wizard's hat. Or a druid's, perhaps? The wooden combs they used to fan their tresses are familiar to students of ancient Celtic art. At their peak, around 300BC, the influence of the Celts stretched from Ireland in the west to the south of Spain and across to Italy's Po Valley, and probably extended to parts of Poland and Ukraine and the central plain of Turkey in the east. These mummies seem to suggest, however, that the Celts penetrated well into central Asia, nearly making it as far as Tibet. The Celts gradually infiltrated Britain between about 500 and 100BC. There was probably never anything like an organised Celtic invasion: they arrived at different times, and are considered a group of peoples loosely connected by similar language, religion, and cultural expression. The eastern Celts spoke a now-dead language called Tocharian, which is related to Celtic languages and part of the Indo-European group. They seem to have been a peaceful folk, as there are few weapons among the Cherchen find and there is little evidence of a caste system. Even older than the Cherchen find is that of the 4,000-year-old Loulan Beauty, who has long flowing fair hair and is one of a number of mummies discovered near the town of Loulan. One of these mummies was an eight-year-old child wrapped in a piece of patterned wool cloth, closed with bone pegs. The Loulan Beauty's features are Nordic. She was 45 when she died, and was buried with a basket of food for the next life, including domesticated wheat, combs and a feather. The Taklamakan desert has given up hundreds of desiccated corpses in the past 25 years, and archaeologists say the discoveries in the Tarim Basin are some of the most significant finds in the past quarter of a century. "From around 1800BC, the earliest mummies in the Tarim Basin were exclusively Caucausoid, or Europoid," says Professor Victor Mair of Pennsylvania University, who has been captivated by the mummies since he spotted them partially obscured in a back room in the old museum in 1988. "He looked like my brother Dave sleeping there, and that's what really got me. Lying there with his eyes closed," Professor Mair said. It's a subject that exercises him and he has gone to extraordinary lengths, dodging difficult political issues, to gain further knowledge of these remarkable people. East Asian migrants arrived in the eastern portions of the Tarim Basin about 3,000 years ago, Professor Mair says, while the Uighur peoples arrived after the collapse of the Orkon Uighur Kingdom, based in modern-day Mongolia, around the year 842. A believer in the "inter-relatedness of all human communities", Professor Mair resists attempts to impose a theory of a single people arriving in Xinjiang, and believes rather that the early Europeans headed in different directions, some travelling west to become the Celts in Britain and Ireland, others taking a northern route to become the Germanic tribes, and then another offshoot heading east and ending up in Xinjiang. This section of the ancient Silk Road is one of the world's most barren precincts. You are further away from the sea here than at any other place, and you can feel it. This where China tests its nuclear weapons. Labour camps are scattered all around - who would try to escape? But the remoteness has worked to the archaeologists' advantage. The ancient corpses have avoided decay because the Tarim Basin is so dry, with alkaline soils. Scientists have been able to glean information about many aspects of our Bronze Age forebears from the mummies, from their physical make-up to information about how they buried their dead, what tools they used and what clothes they wore. In her book The Mummies of Urumchi, the textile expert Elizabeth Wayland Barber examines the tartan-style cloth, and reckons it can be traced back to Anatolia and the Caucasus, the steppe area north of the Black Sea. Her theory is that this group divided, starting in the Caucasus and then splitting, one group going west and another east. Even though they have been dead for thousands of years, every perfectly preserved fibre of the mummies' make-up has been relentlessly politicised. The received wisdom in China says that two hundred years before the birth of Christ, China's emperor Wu Di sent an ambassador to the west to establish an alliance against the marauding Huns, then based in Mongolia. The route across Asia that the emissary, Zhang Qian, took eventually became the Silk Road to Europe. Hundreds of years later Marco Polo came, and the opening up of China began. The very thought that Caucasians were settled in a part of China thousands of years before Wu Di's early contacts with the west and Marco Polo's travels has enormous political ramifications. And that these Europeans should have been in restive Xinjiang hundreds of years before East Asians is explosive. The Chinese historian Ji Xianlin, writing a preface to Ancient Corpses of Xinjiang by the Chinese archaeologist Wang Binghua, translated by Professor Mair, says China "supported and admired" research by foreign experts into the mummies. "However, within China a small group of ethnic separatists have taken advantage of this opportunity to stir up trouble and are acting like buffoons. Some of them have even styled themselves the descendants of these ancient 'white people' with the aim of dividing the motherland. But these perverse acts will not succeed," Ji wrote. Many Uighurs consider the Han Chinese as invaders. The territory was annexed by China in 1955, and the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region established, and there have been numerous incidents of unrest over the years. In 1997 in the northern city of Yining there were riots by Muslim separatists and Chinese security forces cracked down, with nine deaths. There are occasional outbursts, and the region remains very heavily policed. Not surprisingly, the government has been slow to publicise these valuable historical finds for fear of fuelling separatist currents in Xinjiang. The Loulan Beauty, for example, was claimed by the Uighurs as their symbol in song and image, although genetic testing now shows that she was in fact European. Professor Mair acknowledges that the political dimension to all this has made his work difficult, but says that the research shows that the people of Xinjiang are a dizzying mixture. "They tend to mix as you enter the Han Dynasty. By that time the East Asian component is very noticeable," he says. "Modern DNA and ancient DNA show that Uighurs, Kazaks, Kyrgyzs, the peoples of central Asia are all mixed Caucasian and East Asian. The modern and ancient DNA tell the same story," he says. Altogether there are 400 mummies in various degrees of desiccation and decomposition, including the prominent Han Chinese warrior Zhang Xiong and other Uighur mummies, and thousands of skulls. The mummies will keep the scientists busy for a long time. Only a handful of the better-preserved ones are on display in the impressive new Xinjiang museum. Work began in 1999, but was stopped in 2002 after a corruption scandal and the jailing of a former director for involvement in the theft of antiques. The museum finally opened on the 50th anniversary of China's annexation of the restive region, and the mummies are housed in glass display cases (which were sealed with what looked like Sellotape) in a multi-media wing. In the same room are the much more recent Han mummies - equally interesting, but rendering the display confusing, as it groups all the mummies closely together. Which makes sound political sense. This political correctness continues in another section of the museum dedicated to the achievements of the Chinese revolution, and boasts artefacts from the Anti-Japanese War (1931-1945). Best preserved of all the corpses is Yingpan Man, known as the Handsome Man, a 2,000-year-old Caucasian mummy discovered in 1995. He had a gold foil death mask - a Greek tradition - covering his blond, bearded face, and wore elaborate golden embroidered red and maroon wool garments with images of fighting Greeks or Romans. The hemp mask is painted with a soft smile and the thin moustache of a dandy. Currently on display at a museum in Tokyo, the handsome Yingpan man was two metres tall (six feet six inches), and pushing 30 when he died. His head rests on a pillow in the shape of a crowing cockerel. ***********************************************************

From a post by Ray Beere Johnson to the APG-L: Right now, there is a "World E-Book Fair" going on, from 04 July to 04 August. A few hundred thousand digital texts are available *free* for personal download. ...<http://worldebookfair.com/>. For the ancient Irish resources (or some of them), click Browse, then scroll down and click on the listing for CELT. You will want to search the site for possible resources relevant to you .... Browse shows you only a *fraction* of what is available. Use Search, and use it wisely .... Valorie

Dear Listers: Advance notice has been given that Rootsweb will be down for 6 hours from late tonight to tomorrow. Details as listed at http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/ are below. Kind Regards, Lauren List Admin RootsWeb servers being relocated: 2006-01-18 Overnight Wednesday into Thursday, most RootsWeb's services, including here at the HelpDesk, will be down/stopped/off-line while we relocate servers. RootsWeb's Message Boards and World Connect will be available as they have already been relocated. Please bookmark those two sites now, if you haven't already. Alternatively please have a look around our sister site Ancestry. E-mail bound for RootsWeb should be held by your ISP automatically until our servers are back online and ready to receive email again. If an e-mail does bounce back to you, please hold off sending the mail for a period of six hours. Noting that this will include communications to and from all RootsWeb addresses and staff. The time scheduled for the servers to be off: Utah: Thursday 19th January from midnight until 6am (MST). This translates to the starting time of : USA & Canada Thu 2am EST, 1am CST, Wed 11pm PST UK/GMT 7am NZ 8pm Aus 6pm AEDT. (all Thursday)

LEE:-! The best website you should visit is google.com - type in Scotland and Isle Arran into search engine. Then click on button. Here's a site: http://www.scotland-inverness.co.uk/arran.htm scroll down to map..... there are several other sites to visit....Arran means 'peaked island' in Gaelic. Here's a SOCIETY of Celts/Dalriada Clans...bb board as well: http://www.dalriada.co.uk/whoweare/whoweare.htm The following webaite has mega links all about the Isle of Arran..... http://www.scottishislands.org.uk/arran-links.html talks about King Arthur.(Dalriadan)..and other family names.... http://www.mun.ca/mst/heroicage/issues/1/haaad.htm When the Romans left Scotland, in the 4th century, they left behind (unconquered) the iron-age tribes of northern Scotland who had been given names such as Picti, Caledonii and Epidii. By the 6th century, the tribes had united as the kingdom of the Picts, established in the mountains. The first settlers from the Irish tribe of Dal Riata in County Antrim arrived in Argyll around 400AD http://www.rampantscotland.com/know/blknow_dalriada.htm Rootsweb mailing list you probably already belong to or should look into?! SCT-ARGYLL-LREQUEST@ROOTSWEB.COM (Isle of Arran is part of the Argyll Islands....... or WGW-SURNAMES-SCOTLAND-D@ROOTSWEB.com (any Scottesh surname..... There's 100 more sites...is this what you were looking for?! Or is there something else - >? Darcy -----Original Message----- From: Lyman C Babbitt Jr <lcbjr2@juno.com> Sent: Oct 30, 2005 7:38 PM To: CELTS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [Celts] DalRiada Clan i am searching for the DalRiada Clans, Of Isle of Arran, And a Web site On Arran , Sincere thanks lee ==== CELTS Mailing List ==== Need a refresher for list topic, archives and contact address? See http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/SCT/CELTS.html ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx Quote's for the Day......... - - - - - - - -- - - - -- - - - -- - Never Frown, You Never know whose falling in Love with your Smile. ________________________________ When you smile at me or even say "HI", I get the best feeling in the world because I know for a second that I've crossed your mind.