This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/CY.2ADI/171.1 Message Board Post: Email Address: babscook@attbi.com

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/CY.2ADI/70.1 Message Board Post: I live here in Oklahoma. But my grandpa lived in and around Portland , Or, most of his life. Mabee I can help. His name was Ramond E Laws

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Ricco Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/CY.2ADI/320.1.2.1 Message Board Post: Thank you for the suggestion. I will see if I can get a search of that newspaper.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/CY.2ADI/313.1.1 Message Board Post: Thank you so much for forwarding/posting this info...if you come across any more info--would be happy to pay for a photocopy... E-mail me at: snokes@tscnet.com and I will provide you my address for any copies...thanks, again, Susan

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/CY.2ADI/313.1 Message Board Post: The Ventura County Obituary Index lists ; Maritta Refugia O. Lombardo, died 16 June 1903. There is also a listing for a Charles William Lombardo, died 24 Nov 1993.

Hello, I sent an email out to this list about a week or so ago about attempting to get an amendment to last year's SB 1614 (Speirs) that will limit access to vital records in California beginning January 1, 2002. I have gotten some good responses and offers of assistance to try to get some modifications to the upcoming limitations. We have an attorney willing to work Pro Bono with the mechanics of the language for an amendment, and will be conferring on that on January 7th. Those of us working on the foundation of this amendment are not trying to overturn SB 1614 altogether, as we just don't feel that will be successful. We are trying to work with the framework and intent of SB 1614, but not to the severity of it. We are presently planning to exempt birth and death records of a certain age. For example, 80 years on birth records and 50 years on death records. (We haven't concluded the exact age of the exemptions we'll request.) We would like to hear from others as to suggestions relative to exemptions of records that may be more fully and readily accessible AND vitals indices that will be permissible for online access. Please send them to me at ssilver1951@jps.net and I will compile the responses for the group. If anyone else has begun to work on a project of this type, we would like to know that also. Perhaps there is a way to work together toward something better than SB 1614 has left us with. Sincerest thanks, Sue Silver, President El Dorado County Pioneer Cemeteries Commission (a non-profit corporation)

Ron, I have communicated with the El Dorado County Recorder who queried some of his associates. They have no objection to an amendment allowing records to be viewed and shared similar to the time delay for the US Census. However, they would like someone else to take the lead to obtain such an amendment. I believe from what he indicated, the County Recorders' Association (?) would support it. I worked hard to try to defeat this bill because of the work I do trying to identify who died and was buried in which of our multiple cemeteries in this county. The online index has been a treasure for that work. I believe I may be able to persuade a legislator to introduce a bill for such an amendment, but I think we'd have to submit draft language and a statement of the purpose of such an amendment. Anyone interested in getting together for such a purpose? Sue Silver El Dorado County Pioneer Cemeteries Commission ssilver1951@jps.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Filion" <ron@plumshire.com> To: <CASANFRA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 8:24 AM Subject: Re: [CASANFRA] new laws regarding birth/death information > Here's more specific information on the bill that was signed into law. I've > included the full text of the amended bill that was originally posted at > <http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/bill/sen/sb_1601-1650/sb_1614_bill_20020625_amen ded_asm.html> > and is still available in Google's cache. I don't know if any of it changed > when it became law. It doesn't appear to have made it into the State's > online list of codes yet. > > The two things that I noticed the most were: > > *"An individual, corporation, or other business entity that purchased a > comprehensive index prepared by the State Registrar pursuant to subdivision > (a) from the State Registrar prior to December 31, 2001, may not use, or > sell, share, or disclose any of the information contained therein to a > third party." > > NOTE: owners of the previous indices CANNOT disclose information to third > parties. Well, if you want a copy of some of these soon-to-be-rare indices, > they are available now for a limited time on ebay.com (just enter > "california birth index" in the search box). > > * "This bill would require the noncomprehensive indices to be available at > the State Registrar's office and in county recorders' offices for public > inspection and viewing only at computer terminals designated for this > purpose, by individuals who have signed a standard form certifying, under > penalty of perjury, that the information they view will not be used for > criminal purposes." > > NOTE: thus, even the new indices will be noncomprehensive. That is, certain > personal indentifying information will probably not be included. > > What is interesting is that, unlike other states, I don't see a time-limit > on the records. That is, if records are say 75 or 100 years old, they are > open to the public. We can only hope for amendments. > > -Ron > > <BEGIN> > > BILL NUMBER: SB 1614 AMENDED > BILL TEXT > > AMENDED IN ASSEMBLY JUNE 25, 2002 > AMENDED IN SENATE MAY 30, 2002 > AMENDED IN SENATE MAY 15, 2002 > AMENDED IN SENATE APRIL 24, 2002 > AMENDED IN SENATE APRIL 15, 2002 > > INTRODUCED BY Senator Speier > > FEBRUARY 21, 2002 > > An act to amend Section 102230 of, and to add Sections 102231 > and 102232 to, the Health and Safety Code, relating to public > records , and making an appropriation therefor . > > > LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL'S DIGEST > > > SB 1614, as amended, Speier. Public records: vital statistics. > Existing law requires the Director of Health Services, as the > State Registrar of Vital Statistics, to administer the registration > of births, deaths, fetal deaths, and marriages. Existing law > requires the State Registrar to arrange and permanently preserve the > certificates in a systematic manner and to prepare and maintain a > comprehensive and continuous index of all certificates registered. > > This bill would declare the intent of Legislature to enact > legislation to protect the confidentiality of birth and death record > indices. > Existing law, the California Public Records Act, requires state > and local agencies to make records that are not otherwise exempt from > disclosure available to the public upon receipt of a request that > reasonably describes an identifiable record, and upon payment of fees > to cover costs. > This bill would require the comprehensive index described above, > and birth and death record indices prepared or maintained by local > registrars and county recorders, to be kept confidential, except that > these indices may be disclosed to government agencies as prescribed > by law. This bill would exempt these indices from disclosure under > the California Public Records Act. > This bill would prohibit a government agency from selling or > releasing these indices, except as authorized by law. This bill > would also prohibit specified entities and individuals from releasing > any of the information contained in a comprehensive index purchased > from the State Registrar prior to December 31, 2001, to a 3rd party. > This bill would authorize the department to assess an unspecified > civil penalty to enforce this provision. > This bill would require, on or before January 1, 2004, the State > Registrar to establish separate noncomprehensive electronic indices > of all California birth and death records and make the indices > continuously, electronically available to county recorders' offices > statewide. This bill would appropriate $400,000 to the State > Department of Health Services from the Health Statistics Special Fund > for the purposes of developing the noncomprehensive indices. > This bill would require the noncomprehensive indices to be > available at the State Registrar's office and in county recorders' > offices for public inspection and viewing only at computer terminals > designated for this purpose, by individuals who have signed a > standard form certifying, under penalty of perjury, that the > information they view will not be used for criminal purposes. > This bill would, in order to prevent identity theft and fraud, > permit the release of specified personal information contained in > birth and death data files, as defined, to financial institutions and > consumer credit reporting agencies, as defined, for the sole purpose > of determining if the person whose information is being released is > still living. > By expanding the scope of the crime of perjury, and by increasing > the duties of local officials, this bill would impose a > state-mandated local program. > The California Constitution requires the state to reimburse local > agencies and school districts for certain costs mandated by the > state. Statutory provisions establish procedures for making that > reimbursement, including the creation of a State Mandates Claims Fund > to pay the costs of mandates that do not exceed $1,000,000 statewide > and other procedures for claims whose statewide costs exceed > $1,000,000. > This bill would provide that with regard to certain mandates no > reimbursement is required by this act for a specified reason. > With regard to any other mandates, this bill would provide that, > if the Commission on State Mandates determines that the bill contains > costs so mandated by the state, reimbursement for those costs shall > be made pursuant to the statutory provisions noted above. > Vote: majority 2/3 . > Appropriation: no yes . Fiscal > committee: no yes . State-mandated > local program: no yes . > > > THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS: > > > SECTION 1. It is the intent of the Legislature to enact > legislation to protect the confidentiality of birth and death record > indices. > SECTION 1. Section 102230 of the Health and Safety Code is amended > to read: > 102230. (a) (1) The State Registrar shall arrange and > permanently preserve the certificates in a systematic manner and > shall prepare and maintain a comprehensive and > continuous index indices and data files of all certificates registered. > (2) Except as provided in Section 102231, the birth and death > record indices prepared pursuant to paragraph (1), and all birth and > death record indices prepared or maintained by local registrars and > county recorders, shall be kept confidential and shall be exempt from > disclosure under the California Public Records Act (Chapter 3.5 > (commencing with Section 6250) of Division 7 of Title 1 of the > Government Code). > (3) Nothing in this section shall prohibit the release of the > information contained in comprehensive birth and death record indices > and data files to government agencies as prescribed by law. > (4) Notwithstanding paragraph (2), the State Registrar may release > the indices and data files described in paragraph (1) to any > government agency. A government agency that obtains an index > pursuant to this paragraph may not release any portion of its > contents to any other party. > (b) In addition to the indices prepared pursuant to subdivision > (a), the State Registrar shall prepare separate noncomprehensive > electronic indices of all California birth and death records that > shall be made available for public inspection pursuant to Section > 102231. > (c) A government agency may not sell or release birth and death > record indices prepared and maintained pursuant to subdivision (a) by > the State Registrar or by local registrars and county recorders and > obtained by the government agency, except as authorized by law. > (d) (1) An individual, corporation, or other business entity that > purchased a comprehensive index prepared by the State Registrar > pursuant to subdivision (a) from the State Registrar prior to > December 31, 2001, may not use, or sell, share, or disclose any of > the information contained therein to a third party. > (2) Any person who, in violation of this section uses, sells, > shares, or discloses any information provided pursuant to this > section, or who uses information provided pursuant to this section in > a manner other than as authorized pursuant to this section, may be > denied further access to any personally identifying information or > confidential information maintained by the department. That person > shall also be subject to the assessment of a civil penalty by the > department in the amount of ____ ($____). The penalty provided in > this section shall not be construed as restricting any remedy, > criminal, provisional, or otherwise, provided by law for the benefit > of the department or any person. > (e) The provisions of this section are severable. If any > provision of this section or its application is held invalid, that > invalidity shall not affect other provisions or applications that can > be given effect without the invalid provision or application. > > SEC. 2. Section 102231 is added to the Health and Safety Code, to > read: > 102231. (a) On or before January 1, 2004, and contingent upon > funding being made available in the Budget Act or by other > appropriation, the State Registrar shall establish separate > noncomprehensive electronic indices of all California birth and death > records and make the indices continuously, electronically available > to county recorders' offices statewide. Notwithstanding the > California Public Records Act (Chapter 3.5 (commencing with Section > 6250) of Division 7 of Title 1 of the Government Code), no part of > these indices may be released to any individual or entity, except as > authorized by this section or Section 102230 or 102232. > (b) Contingent upon funding being made available in the Budget Act > or by other appropriation, the separate noncomprehensive electronic > indices prepared pursuant to this section shall be available at the > State Registrar's office and in county recorders' offices for public > inspection only at computer terminals designated for this purpose, > and shall be subject to the following restrictions: > (1) Availability to public inspection shall be limited to viewing > only. > (2) An individual who wishes to inspect the indices shall sign a > standard form, as described in subdivision (d), certifying under > penalty of perjury that the information he or she views will not be > used for criminal purposes. Counties shall maintain the signed forms > for seven years from the end of the month of signature. Maintenance > of an electronic image of the form shall be an acceptable means of > complying with this paragraph. > (c) Upon implementation of subdivision (b), the separate > noncomprehensive electronic indices prepared pursuant to this section > shall be the only birth and death record indices open to public > inspection or otherwise available to the public. Nothing in this > section prohibits a disclosure that is authorized by Section 102232. > > (d) The State Registrar shall develop a standard form to be signed > by persons who wish to inspect the indices, pursuant to paragraph > (2) of subdivision (b). > (e) For purposes of this section, "noncomprehensive index" means > an index that contains information, excluding the social security > numbers of deceased persons from death records, that the State > Registrar has selected to include from the comprehensive index > described in paragraph (1) of subdivision (a) of Section 102230. The > State Registrar shall determine the information from the > comprehensive index that shall be included in the noncomprehensive > index, based on the lawful uses that may be made of the > noncomprehensive index and the privacy needs of individuals whose > records are included in the index. > (f) The amount of four hundred thousand dollars ($400,000) is > hereby appropriated from the Health Statistics Special Fund to the > department for purposes of developing the noncomprehensive indices > pursuant to subdivision (a). > (g) A county is not required to comply with this section until the > department has completed development of the viewing system, provided > a computer terminal for public inspection purposes to the county, > and established a maintenance agreement on the equipment with the > county. > SEC. 3. Section 102232 is added to the Health and Safety Code, to > read: > 102232. (a) For purposes of Sections 102230 and 102231 and this > section, the following definitions apply: > (1) "Birth data files" means computerized data compiled from birth > certificates registered with the department and maintained pursuant > to Section 102230. > (2) "Death data files" means computerized data compiled from death > certificates registered with the department and maintained pursuant > to Section 102230. > (3) "Person" means any individual, firm, corporation, partnership, > limited liability company, joint venture, or association. > (4) "Personal identifying information" means first name, middle > name, last name, mother's maiden name, and father's surname, and a > social security number that is contained in a death data file. > (5) "Financial institution" means any commercial bank, trust > company, savings and loan association, credit union, industrial loan > company, insurance company, or person engaged in the business of > lending money. > (b) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the department > shall not release birth or death data files containing personal > identifying information, except as follows: > (1) Birth data files containing personal identifying information > may be released to other governmental agencies, subject to Sections > 102430 and 102447. > (2) Birth data files containing personal identifying information > may be released to researchers who have received approval for > specific research pursuant to subdivision (c) of Section 102430. > (3) Death data files containing personal identifying information > may be released to persons expressing a valid scientific interest, as > determined by the appropriate committee constituted for the > protection of human subjects that is approved by the United States > Department of Health and Human Services and has a general assurance > pursuant to Part 46 (commencing with Section 46.101) of Title 45 of > the Code of Federal Regulations. > (4) (A) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, in order to > prevent identity theft and fraud, information contained in death data > files may be released to financial institutions, or consumer credit > reporting agencies, as defined in subdivision (d) of Section 1785.3 > of the Civil Code, or their agents and representatives, for the sole > purpose of ascertaining whether an individual is still living. For > purposes of this paragraph, this information shall be limited to > first name, middle name, last name, date of birth, date of death, > mother's maiden name, father's surname, social security number, and > gender. > (B) The information accessed pursuant to this paragraph shall be > limited to the uses described in this paragraph and shall not be > used, sold, shared, or disclosed for profiling or any other purpose > inconsistent with the uses permitted by this paragraph. For the > purposes of this paragraph, "profiling" means the use of statistics > concerning race, ethnicity, disease, or cause of death to classify > customers for a business reason. > (C) Applicants for access to limited death data files shall > complete the written application specified in subdivision (d), and > shall include on that application a statement that the data will be > used solely for the purpose of determining whether individuals are > still living. > (c) Any person who, in violation of this section, uses, sells, > shares, or discloses any information provided pursuant to this > section, or who uses information provided pursuant to this section in > a manner other than as authorized pursuant to this section, may be > denied further access to any personally identifying confidential > information maintained by the department. That person shall also be > subject to the assessment of a civil penalty by the department in the > amount of ____ ($____). The penalty provided in this section shall > not be construed as restricting any remedy, criminal, provisional, or > otherwise, provided by law for the benefit of the department or any > person. > (d) All requests for information pursuant to this section shall be > by written application. The application shall disclose the identity > of the requester and the purpose for which the data is intended. > The application shall contain an affirmation by the requester that > the information shall be maintained in a secure fashion and will not > be transferred, used, sold, shared, or disclosed to another party and > a notice that states, "IT IS A CRIME TO WILLFULLY OBTAIN AND USE > PERSONAL IDENTIFYING INFORMATION OF ANOTHER FOR ANY UNLAWFUL PURPOSE." > The application shall contain a statement signed by the requester > under penalty of perjury that only the requester will use the data > and only for the purpose identified in the application. > (e) The department shall adopt any regulations necessary to > implement this section as emergency regulations. > (f) The department may establish and impose reasonable charges to > offset the costs of preparing and releasing birth and death data > files. > SEC. 4. No reimbursement is required by this act pursuant to > Section 6 of Article XIII B of the California Constitution for > certain costs that may be incurred by a local agency or school > district because in that regard this act creates a new crime or > infraction, eliminates a crime or infraction, or changes the penalty > for a crime or infraction, within the meaning of Section 17556 of the > Government Code, or changes the definition of a crime within the > meaning of Section 6 of Article XIII B of the California > Constitution. > However, notwithstanding Section 17610 of the Government Code, if > the Commission on State Mandates determines that this act contains > other costs mandated by the state, reimbursement to local agencies > and school districts for those costs shall be made pursuant to Part 7 > (commencing with Section 17500) of Division 4 of Title 2 of the > Government Code. If the statewide cost of the claim for > reimbursement does not exceed one million dollars ($1,000,000), > reimbursement shall be made from the State Mandates Claims Fund. > > <END> > >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/CY.2ADI/323.1 Message Board Post: Harle Walker was a classmate of mine in High School. You can probably get a copy of his Obit from the Ventura County Star. Try their internet sight, www.Inside VC.com.

Hello! I am new to this list hoping to find out more about the Ventura State Home for Girls. In the 1920 Census my Grandmothers sister, Laura E. LILES age 16 is there. I've done searches on-line and haven't found out much about the Home itself; if its still in existence under another name or if it's closed down where would the records be stored? Any help and suggestions are appreciated. Thanks, Marie "Life isn't measured by the number of breaths we take; but by the moments that take our breath away"

Hello from France, I'm trying to find the american descendants of my grand'grand uncle, Joseph DANANCHER, who came from France to USA about 1885. One of his grand'daughter was Louise SOLLER, born about 1900, daughter of John SOLLER and Alice DANANCHER. I know that Louise SOLLER married Gustave JOHNSON on june 16th 1927 but no idea where... Gustave was from Santa Paula, and had swedish origins. Do you have an idea in order to find more information ? I'm a genealogist in France since 15 years, but totally newby concerning genealogy in the USA ! I did a special web page concerning my american cousins quest : http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jean-philippe.henry/DanancherENG.html Any idea or information will be greatly appreciated !! Thanks in advance, Jean-Philippe HENRY Strasbourg, France

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/CY.2ADI/321 Message Board Post: Hi fellow genealogists! I’m a genealogist just like you are. This is kind of long, but well worth reading! I found a way to use FOIA in genealogy to request records that actually results in moving your search along. In my every day professional work I use the FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) to acquire records from all areas. The FOIA is a tool that is available to everyone. The request is free but it can be very confusing. You have to know where to send it, you have to have the right request form, a properly worded letter, you have to know what type of information they need to get you what you are looking for. You cannot just send in a generic "find this" request. Using the proper request, the proper form, a properly worded letter you will get the documentation you are seeking. I received 84 pages in the first probate request, two weeks later, an additional 124 pages. All stuff they copied from microfiche. At $ .10 per page. Some of these re! cords went back to 1838. I will send you the forms (both State and Federal), the request letter, what you need to send them in terms of specifics, if you have them, or if not, where and how to find them. I have compiled a list of each State’s statutes and codes that you will need to reformat the request form for your particular State or the State you are sending the request to. I have included some specific searching directions and examples that may help you. For those of us who have been unable to get to an out-of-town location or to afford a researcher it's great. My email is genealogyprincess@hotmail.com or klawler@batorberlin.com. Please only use these for responses. I’ll be happy to answer questions! I will be happy to help anyone with any additional information or reformatting the forms for other states, other data requests, etc. Any other requests for help, I will send a form. I am requesting $6.58 for paper, copying, assembly, large envelope, and postage costs. This package of information is 22+ pages (and growing) -- and I had no idea this would be responded to in such huge numbers (!!). So, if you’re interested, send $6.58, personal check is ok, [Kathy Lawler] to Genealogy Princess, 20757 Camden Square, #210, Lathrup Village, MI 48076 or use my Paypal address [checking] for $7.00 to Genealogyprincess2000@yahoo.com. Either way, don’t forget your address!! I will send you the information the very day I receive your address and funds. Lastly, additional information, new ways I can come up with to use FOIA will be sent to you free of charge and I’ll also be happy to answer any questions you may have. This is strictly to get you! information that will help you gather documents and information to further your search for your ancestors. Thanks! Kathleen Lawler

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/CY.2ADI/320 Message Board Post: I am seeking a newspaper article concerning an automobile accident that claimed the life of a relative. His name was Carl A. Ricco and he died 5 September 1964 in Ventura County, California. Thank you.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/CY.2ADI/319 Message Board Post: I am looking for the obituaries for a couple of my wife's relatives who died in Santa Paula, Ventura, California. One is for Andrew Jackson Chitwood who died on February 4, 1956. The other is for Bert Daniel Chitwood who died on December 1, 1962. Any help in this matter is greatly appreciated. I can be reached at cahahn@lightspeed.net Thank you for all help in this matter.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/CY.2ADI/318 Message Board Post: CARBERRY, William. Died Sep. 1904. He had 2 sons, James & Joseph living in area. Trying to find out if this is the same Wm. Carberry buried in Nordhoff Cemetery in Ojai. No dates on stone. Does anyone recognize these names? Someone "recently" put flowers on his grave so someone must know him and is still alive. Thanks. Ken Kothe Iowa

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: OBRIEN Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/CY.2ADI/317 Message Board Post: I have family in the Ventura area. Albert Ray and James Sidney are my uncles. Albert Ray married Violet. There son is JIM. Jim was a police officer. Shot in the line of duty in Oxnard back in 1993. Violet is supposedly living with Jim's wife last we heard. Cities we know they lived in are Ventura, Oxnard, Camarillo and Indio. Any help would be appreciated. Email me directly at CBennett100556@aol.com

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/CY.2ADI/303.1 Message Board Post: I have this obiturary - Ventura County folks are very helpful! thanks.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Lookig For A Friend Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/CY.2ADI/316 Message Board Post: Anyone that might be able to furnish me with an E-Mail address for Dody Foster. Please Help. My friend moved to Arizona. Hi Floreine. Please Help. I heard you & Dody Became Friends.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Very Unhappy Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/CY.2ADI/315 Message Board Post: Hey Barry , May you and that worthless mouthpiece of yours loose. The Union And the People of the Union Are better off without you. Only the Crooked Politetions miss you anyway. Hell , I bet there paying You Legal fees.

For those who felt that the World Trade Center acreage should have been turned into a memorial park for the victims, perhaps this will explain why New York hardly gave it a thought. www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/local/newyork/ny-nypark163005128nov16,0,7803444.story?coll=ny-nynews-print Sue Silver El Dorado County, CA

---- Fowarded Message: ---- From: Joan Carpenter Subject: Newspaper Query Date: 11/16/02 7:45Am Can anyone tell me if the Ventura Star Free Press and the Oxnard Press Courier are available on film through interlibrary loan? Possibly from the California State Library? As the newspapers are in other states? Thanx. Joan